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Old 11-17-2017, 09:11 AM   #461
IndigoErth
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[A Renet episode on this morning is to blame for this, just fyi...]


Wait...

If the bomb that presumably triggered the apocalypse, after which no humans survived, happened when the Turtles were supposedly still only 21, as mentioned in another thread, then how the heck are they the famous "Turtle warriors of legend," as claimed by Renet?

That would presumably require another previous unknown event in their still young lives that would out them to the world (or at least city/country), and would make them famous as Renet claims, prior to the bomb event they couldn't stop and killed all humans. But... to be "of legend" suggests a far longer time span between an unknown fame causing event and Renet traveling back in time to meet them.

So were they famous already by age 20? (Maybe soon after the present time where the series ended with the cross over? Since if they aged in this 5-year show that would make them around 20. If it spanned a similar amount of time.) And why is Renet even so excited to meet them if humanity dies out not long after? They couldn't be "famous" for long before most life on the planet died and takes a lot of the wind out of said fame if almost no one is left to care and pass on the stories.

But then Renet would supposedly meet them again in the future, or so she seemed to promise Mikey, so that's presumably after the age of 21 and the apocalyptic event, so... Wait.

But if she was excited to meet them, than at the age that she was at the time she hadn't met them yet in her present time period (sans time travel), so she'd only meet them again in the future when she herself is older. So, that is then presumably after the apocalypse, or the event that started it.

Granted they could be famous among mutants, not humans, but there isn't a big enough population of them either for them to be famous among, let alone be warriors for and against (nor for much reason other than simple survival), AND the Turtles were split up for many decades. (And Mikey seems to have retired from a warrior lifestyle apart from his brothers.)

Soooo... Renet... did you lie to Mikey? Even if you couldn't try to help change what happened, you didn't even show up to try to bring them back together? What famous warriors - plural - are they as a team if apart for so long and split up so young?

Unless they're only "famous" to her after listening to the life stories of a bunch of old Turtle men someday...

Though that still doesn't explain her exuberance at their first meeting, suggesting real fame.

Hm.

Last edited by IndigoErth; 11-17-2017 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:18 AM   #462
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check the past 20 pages for this argument

another case of nicks creative team just not caring
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:18 AM   #463
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People have argued that they could have become legends afterwards etc, course the turtles are quite old by the end and there is a lot to start fixing.

As for it happening before, when Ciro said the bomb went off when the turtles were 21 it was the same time he was talking about his movie proposal (this is in the thread where people went to view the Monster Arc) He said the turtles come back out of hiding, I think they were going to be around 21 in this movie leading up to the bomb (they had gone back into hiding all this time, need to go back and check), so... if that is what the writers have in mind then they may not famous before the bomb either. (unless they were famous for the crossover arc and then hid from all the fans who wouldn't leave them alone LOL )

Personally I think it may be that when they came to write the end they have this story they really want to do they didn't want to let that one episode get in the way.

Oh, just one thing I did notice though, in the monster arc when asked about the outcome she told them she couldn't see the future as it was being changed by the events.... maybe that was the way out. Still, at the end of that she's tells Mikey he is yet to say the nicest thing anyone has ever said to her so maybe not.. I'm sticking with my above view

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Old 11-17-2017, 10:57 AM   #464
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I guess really it comes down to the fact that the 2012 team weren't necessarily quite yet done with it had this last season been allowed to be as long as the others. If split in half, we missed what could have been two more arcs.

If they were famous afterwards, and presumably after they were back together, then maybe there really could have been a second chance to save the world that we just don't get to see.



You know, maybe since I haven't seen the film, but I only realized the other day that Donnie looks like Chappie.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:17 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
I guess really it comes down to the fact that the 2012 team weren't necessarily quite yet done with it had this last season been allowed to be as long as the others. If split in half, we missed what could have been two more arcs.

If they were famous afterwards, and presumably after they were back together, then maybe there really could have been a second chance to save the world that we just don't get to see.



You know, maybe since I haven't seen the film, but I only realized the other day that Donnie looks like Chappie.
Yeah he does (Donnie)

Depending on what happened to the spare turtles there could be a Donnie with his own body still somewhere and a non monster mutated Leo.

Last edited by newfan; 11-17-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:18 PM   #466
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check the past 20 pages for this argument

another case of nicks creative team just not caring
Why do you keep trolling this topic over and over again? The Nick creative team not caring? Who the hell are you to speak for these people?
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:45 PM   #467
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People are acting like the turtles are dead or something. Obviously they do something that saves the world. We just donít know when or how. Could very well be after the events of the final episode. Maybe the turtles save the world by uniting whatís left of it. Maybe they time travel to fix things. Itís left ambiguous for a reason- so if they want to go back and tell that story, they can.
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:06 AM   #468
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I mean, they did save Earth from two Kraang invasions, one Triceraton invasion, and literal destruction via black hole, plus whatever adventures we didn't see happen before the M-Bomb and whatever adventures happen AFTER Mutant Apocalypse. If we stack those accomplishments against literally any other man, team, or army in human history, nobody comes CLOSE to having saved as many people, as many times, as the Turtles did.

We call people "legends" for achieving FAR less.

I also don't think failing to stop the M-Bomb would prevent them from being remembered as legendary. We revere heroes for their accomplishments, and sometimes even for their heroic failures. Americans have remembered the Alamo for close to 200 years, and for 2,500 years we've told the story of the heroic Spartans who lost the Battle of Thermopylae.

I don't even think they had to be world famous in their lifetimes, let alone before the bomb. There are a lot of artists who died poor, only to be world famous posthumously.

And I think Renet only interferes in time-altering events; events where an outside force like Savanti Romero changes the timeline. I'm sure not telling the Turtles that they would fail to stop the M-bomb was her Edith Keeler moment, but if Renet exists then clearly a global apocalypse is integral to the history of her civilization. You can't stop World War 2 from happening and expect the same world to exist afterwards.

Really the big hangup is "where does Renet's civilization come from?" I personally think that there are pockets of humanity that survived the Mutant Apocalypse. The asteroid might have wiped out most of the dinosaurs, but some species survived to evolve and populate the world we know today.

And remember, even though Raph told us that everyone is dead he's not omniscient. He hasn't seen any humans for 40 years, but that doesn't mean he's correct about literally 100% of humanity being wiped out. And unless Renet is some kind of being who exists outside of time, or some kind of alien, then her civilization must have come from SOMEWHERE.

AND, if that civilization did spring out of the wasteland, the Turtles must be pretty famous after defeating Maximus Kong and finding the Green Place. Maybe famous enough for people to want to know their story, where they came from, what their life was like before the apocalypse.

It's not unreasonable to think that legendary story would spread through the tribes who were oppressed under Maximus for decades, and that includes whatever pockets of humanity survived and grew into the time-faring civilization that Renet comes from.

That's all my head-cannon. I just don't think of the Mutant Apocalypse as the end of the story, but rather the beginning of an epic new era of TMNT (and world) history.

-JJ
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:25 AM   #469
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TLDR - I work way too many late nights and put way too much thought into this stuff...

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Old 11-22-2017, 10:07 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by BYWInsaniac View Post
I mean, they did save Earth from two Kraang invasions, one Triceraton invasion, and literal destruction via black hole, plus whatever adventures we didn't see happen before the M-Bomb and whatever adventures happen AFTER Mutant Apocalypse. If we stack those accomplishments against literally any other man, team, or army in human history, nobody comes CLOSE to having saved as many people, as many times, as the Turtles did.

We call people "legends" for achieving FAR less.

I also don't think failing to stop the M-Bomb would prevent them from being remembered as legendary. We revere heroes for their accomplishments, and sometimes even for their heroic failures. Americans have remembered the Alamo for close to 200 years, and for 2,500 years we've told the story of the heroic Spartans who lost the Battle of Thermopylae.

I don't even think they had to be world famous in their lifetimes, let alone before the bomb. There are a lot of artists who died poor, only to be world famous posthumously.

And I think Renet only interferes in time-altering events; events where an outside force like Savanti Romero changes the timeline. I'm sure not telling the Turtles that they would fail to stop the M-bomb was her Edith Keeler moment, but if Renet exists then clearly a global apocalypse is integral to the history of her civilization. You can't stop World War 2 from happening and expect the same world to exist afterwards.

Really the big hangup is "where does Renet's civilization come from?" I personally think that there are pockets of humanity that survived the Mutant Apocalypse. The asteroid might have wiped out most of the dinosaurs, but some species survived to evolve and populate the world we know today.

And remember, even though Raph told us that everyone is dead he's not omniscient. He hasn't seen any humans for 40 years, but that doesn't mean he's correct about literally 100% of humanity being wiped out. And unless Renet is some kind of being who exists outside of time, or some kind of alien, then her civilization must have come from SOMEWHERE.

AND, if that civilization did spring out of the wasteland, the Turtles must be pretty famous after defeating Maximus Kong and finding the Green Place. Maybe famous enough for people to want to know their story, where they came from, what their life was like before the apocalypse.

It's not unreasonable to think that legendary story would spread through the tribes who were oppressed under Maximus for decades, and that includes whatever pockets of humanity survived and grew into the time-faring civilization that Renet comes from.

That's all my head-cannon. I just don't think of the Mutant Apocalypse as the end of the story, but rather the beginning of an epic new era of TMNT (and world) history.

-JJ
This is a very good point. Not to mention the fact that Raph lost some of his memory.

All of these points make a lot of sense to me, actually. I really hope that this concept is revisited at some point and we get to see how the Turtles adapt to this new world together. I'd also like to see more flashbacks of just before, during, and after the bomb went off.
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:23 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by BYWInsaniac View Post
I mean, they did save Earth from two Kraang invasions, one Triceraton invasion, and literal destruction via black hole, plus whatever adventures we didn't see happen before the M-Bomb and whatever adventures happen AFTER Mutant Apocalypse. If we stack those accomplishments against literally any other man, team, or army in human history, nobody comes CLOSE to having saved as many people, as many times, as the Turtles did.

We call people "legends" for achieving FAR less.

I also don't think failing to stop the M-Bomb would prevent them from being remembered as legendary. We revere heroes for their accomplishments, and sometimes even for their heroic failures. Americans have remembered the Alamo for close to 200 years, and for 2,500 years we've told the story of the heroic Spartans who lost the Battle of Thermopylae.

I don't even think they had to be world famous in their lifetimes, let alone before the bomb. There are a lot of artists who died poor, only to be world famous posthumously.

And I think Renet only interferes in time-altering events; events where an outside force like Savanti Romero changes the timeline. I'm sure not telling the Turtles that they would fail to stop the M-bomb was her Edith Keeler moment, but if Renet exists then clearly a global apocalypse is integral to the history of her civilization. You can't stop World War 2 from happening and expect the same world to exist afterwards.

Really the big hangup is "where does Renet's civilization come from?" I personally think that there are pockets of humanity that survived the Mutant Apocalypse. The asteroid might have wiped out most of the dinosaurs, but some species survived to evolve and populate the world we know today.

And remember, even though Raph told us that everyone is dead he's not omniscient. He hasn't seen any humans for 40 years, but that doesn't mean he's correct about literally 100% of humanity being wiped out. And unless Renet is some kind of being who exists outside of time, or some kind of alien, then her civilization must have come from SOMEWHERE.

AND, if that civilization did spring out of the wasteland, the Turtles must be pretty famous after defeating Maximus Kong and finding the Green Place. Maybe famous enough for people to want to know their story, where they came from, what their life was like before the apocalypse.

It's not unreasonable to think that legendary story would spread through the tribes who were oppressed under Maximus for decades, and that includes whatever pockets of humanity survived and grew into the time-faring civilization that Renet comes from.

That's all my head-cannon. I just don't think of the Mutant Apocalypse as the end of the story, but rather the beginning of an epic new era of TMNT (and world) history.

-JJ
Even by going with the info presented on the episodes we already see the Turtles changing the world for the better, they unified 2 rogue groups under their leadership, they defeated Maximus and ended his rein of terror, and they found the place of legends said to be a paradise, those things right there are the work of Legendary heroes IMO.
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:15 AM   #472
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I'm pretty sure Renet is just from another dimension that is non-dependent on Earth. The Mirage comics establish her as coming from the 79th level of Null Time, and the IDW comics establish her as a singularity. So I don't think the Earth getting blown up in the Nickelodeon continuity influences whether or not she can exist.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:16 PM   #473
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I'm pretty sure Renet is just from another dimension that is non-dependent on Earth. The Mirage comics establish her as coming from the 79th level of Null Time, and the IDW comics establish her as a singularity. So I don't think the Earth getting blown up in the Nickelodeon continuity influences whether or not she can exist.
Exactly. She lives outside time and space as we know it.

I think people are confusing their dislike for the story as plot holes.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:48 PM   #474
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possible future.
Science fiction almost always has many possible futures.
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Because the crossovers doing nothing else than messing up the timeline and other stuff of the 1987-1996 series, I've given up writing fanfiction about it. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the TMNT as many other fanfiction writers do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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