The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Universes > Nick TMNT Cartoon Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2017, 09:01 PM   #1
Powder
Endless Screw
 
Powder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Shell Ri La
Posts: 24,733
How The Future Came To Be (FINALE SPOILERS)

I know we could delve into this in the episode discussion thread, but I figured with all the speculation folks like to do, this particular aspect of the series finale warranted its own thread. What lead to the events that created this wasteland? Who/what/when/where/why?!

We see that a mutagen bomb goes off, presumably in New York City, which turns, as far as we can tell, almost the entire planet into a mutant wasteland. There are no humans left, very few structures/resources. Leonardo is shown to be in the center of the blast radius, pushing his brothers to safety, & taking the brunt of its hellish consequence all alone. Behind him, is what created the blast. To me, that totally looks like a Kraang design, whether it's the bomb or a ship deploying it.

1. If there are no humans left, does that mean it's because they became mutants, or that they just plain died out? We see a bunch of humans become mutants in the flashback, however Casey Jones' skull is 100% that of a human. So he was okay, yeah? Does that mean then that some humans, perhaps those who were in basements or bunkers, for example, weren't exposed, then later died of natural causes or were killed by mutants?

2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up. Did they blow up the moon, too, to mess with tides & other earthly processes?

3. If we're to believe this was all going down somewhere in the vicinity of NY, the tri-state area or whatever, what's up with the dominant species gangs? Meerkats (formerly), lizards, honey badgers, they don't exactly run in packs around their neck of the woods. Why weren't they just deformed humanoids or a wide variety of different animals? I guess we can just assume the creative team had to make good use of their 3D resources & as such limited the species count, but even so, why pick those 3 over any other?

4. Was hair growth a side effect of minor mutagen exposure for the turtles? Why Raph/Mikey but not Leo? Did he shave, despite his manic state?

Do you personally believe other mutant homies of the turtles are still kicking at that point? Like Slash/Leatherhead at least? I'd like to think so. Kind of a shame we didn't get to know anyone else's fate, if you ask me.
Powder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:04 PM   #2
Bishop123
Random Punk
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post

2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up.
When Worlds Collide implied the remaining Kraang were turned back into Utroms. Prime (along with Sub-Prime) was apparently killed off for good in Annihilation: Earth! when the Triceratons blew up the Technodrome, and those same events transpired in Earth's Last Stand. So I don't think it was the Kraang's doing, since it truly seems they were wiped out. Unless they somehow came back in the future, but I don't know how likely that is with Prime being dead.

Otherwise though, I have no idea who else could have made the bomb, which is my biggest question of the finale. Perhaps it's something they just want to leave for fan speculation, or the crew could answer it themselves in due time.
Bishop123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:07 PM   #3
Sabacooza
Mad Scientist
 
Sabacooza's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,720
Would it be a bad idea to see this as a short comic book series or at least a short animated series to maybe fill in some of the gaps and beyond? A part of me wants to see more dealing with this reality and the other part just wants to let it be.
Sabacooza is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:11 PM   #4
Powder
Endless Screw
 
Powder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Shell Ri La
Posts: 24,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop123 View Post
When Worlds Collide implied the remaining Kraang were turned back into Utroms. Prime (along with Sub-Prime) was apparently killed off for good in Annihilation: Earth! when the Triceratons blew up the Technodrome, and those same events transpired in Earth's Last Stand. So I don't think it was the Kraang's doing, since it truly seems they were wiped out. Unless they somehow came back in the future, but I don't know how likely that is with Prime being dead.

Otherwise though, I have no idea who else could have made the bomb, which is my biggest question of the finale. Perhaps it's something they just want to leave for fan speculation, or the crew could answer it themselves in due time.
Huh, ok, thanks for the refresher. Still though, one could theorize that they weren't actually destroyed & hadda wait a few years to execute their revenge, no? I mean, being it's a "kids" show, they couldn't show their "death", so there's a bit of breathing room for headcanon, even if it's a stretch at times. Like you said, there's no logical explanation for how else it could've came to be.

A part of me ponders the potential of that second set of turtles going off into space with Fugioid, maybe something went south there which lead to this? I'm certain Ciro & the gang wanted fan speculation to forever be its lasting impression (kinda like Twin Peaks). They've definitely gotten their wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
Would it be a bad idea to see this as a short comic book series or at least a short animated series to maybe fill in some of the gaps and beyond?
Not at all, I've been sitting here wondering if you me & Andrew could pull it off...
Powder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:12 PM   #5
newhire13
Hench Mutant
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 352
Seems likely that it was The Kraang. That was part of their plan, to mutate the Earth so, I guess they kinda sorta succeeded.
newhire13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:17 PM   #6
Sabacooza
Mad Scientist
 
Sabacooza's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
Not at all, I've been sitting here wondering if you me & Andrew could pull it off...
😂 Funny you should mention that. I can already see the first finished issue in my head. Nice cardstock cover. Art that resembles the show to a degree maybe a bit more gritty, some rough drybrush inking here and there, very earthy colors with some grunge textures for effect. It would be very cool actually. I may actually attempt something myself.
Sabacooza is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:21 PM   #7
PApagreg
Stone Warrior
 
PApagreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post

1. If there are no humans left, does that mean it's because they became mutants, or that they just plain died out? We see a bunch of humans become mutants in the flashback, however Casey Jones' skull is 100% that of a human. So he was okay, yeah? Does that mean then that some humans, perhaps those who were in basements or bunkers, for example, weren't exposed, then later died of natural causes or were killed by mutants?
Well maybe the blast made normal humans impotent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up. Did they blow up the moon, too, to mess with tides & other earthly processes?
Well its either going to be the Kraang or Baxter(dude said he wanted revenge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
3. If we're to believe this was all going down somewhere in the vicinity of NY, the tri-state area or whatever, what's up with the dominant species gangs? Meerkats (formerly), lizards, honey badgers, they don't exactly run in packs around their neck of the woods. Why weren't they just deformed humanoids or a wide variety of different animals? I guess we can just assume the creative team had to make good use of their 3D resources & as such limited the species count, but even so, why pick those 3 over any other?
Cause they like those animals I guess, why did Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman choose Turtles of all things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
4. Was hair growth a side effect of minor mutagen exposure for the turtles? Why Raph/Mikey but not Leo? Did he shave, despite his manic state? :tlol
Mutagen is weird like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
Do you personally believe other mutant homies of the turtles are still kicking at that point? Like Slash/Leatherhead at least? I'd like to think so. Kind of a shame we didn't get to know anyone else's fate, if you ask me.
Maybe but unfourntly the episode didn't even mention them.
__________________
PApagreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:26 PM   #8
newhire13
Hench Mutant
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 352
Yeah the mutagen seriously did a number on Leo. Interesting that he still had a teenager's face.
newhire13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 11:41 PM   #9
Technogeek29
Mad Scientist
 
Technogeek29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Huntsville
Posts: 1,394
Could do a number of short stories with this. Donnie Taking care of Raph as he slowly pieces his memory back but is barely able to get him to remember him.

Mikey coping with his loneliness and eventual decent into madness. But being hopeful and finding the Oasis and creating the map for it.

And Leo conquering the wasteland as Maxximus Khan.
__________________
Technogeek29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 11:54 PM   #10
Donatello19
Merchandise Maniac
 
Donatello19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 5,872
Anyone else left a bit disappointed/underwhelmed by the finale? I'm not really sure what it was that I wanted, but this didn't really even feel like a finale to the show to me. I guess to me it didn't feel like a satisfying ending, because this almost felt like showing us what happened after the true "ending"? I mean, I think a better ending might have even been just showing us the turtles and their allies preparing for the mutagen explosion/trying to stop it, and then having the explosion itself end the series with Leo's sacrifice, idk.

I still stand by my opinion that the series should have ended after they defeated super shredder, that episode at least felt like a true finale to me.
Donatello19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 06:29 AM   #11
BubblyShell22
Leo-holic
 
BubblyShell22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 16,917
It didn't feel underwhelming to me. I know most say the Kraang were wiped out, but it makes sense it either could have been them or Baxter or maybe someone else who found mutagen and wanted to use it. Not sure why they chose those animals, but they did and it seemed weird to me. I'm going to guess all of the humans either died or were mutated so that's why you have no humans left.
__________________
"A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One.

"Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.
BubblyShell22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 01:49 PM   #12
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 31,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop123 View Post
Prime (along with Sub-Prime) was apparently killed off for good in Annihilation: Earth!
Kraang subprime's last appeared was in Trans-dimensional turtles, I thought? Last we saw him fall into the Turtle Prime universe and the portal closed on him. I guess we can assume the Mirage Turtles killed him.
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 01:56 PM   #13
Bishop123
Random Punk
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Kraang subprime's last appeared was in Trans-dimensional turtles, I thought? Last we saw him fall into the Turtle Prime universe and the portal closed on him. I guess we can assume the Mirage Turtles killed him.
Yes, but the events of Annihiliation: Earth! still happened in Earth's Last Stand. It was unclear if Subprime was still in the Technodrome or not when the Triceratons blew it up in that time in Earth's Last Stand. I know it's confusing, but I guess we can assume maybe he was killed by the Mirage Turtles like you said if he didn't escape that dimension in the altered timeline.
Bishop123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 01:59 PM   #14
FredWolfLeonardo
FW Fanboy
 
FredWolfLeonardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Fourside
Posts: 1,730
Subprime is known for surviving impossible odds so I wouldn't be surprised if he and Prime personally orchestrated the Mutagen Bomb.
FredWolfLeonardo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 02:06 PM   #15
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 31,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
Subprime is known for surviving impossible odds so I wouldn't be surprised if he and Prime personally orchestrated the Mutagen Bomb.
It might have been a fail-safe bomb planted deep under NY in case the Kraang all died, set to go off as a last resort type of thing.

I mean it's easy to forget the Kraang have been on Earth for thousands of years. They may have had these bombs planted everywhere in the world, in every country in every major city.

And on top of that, the moon was destroyed. That would change the ocean currents of the planet and global warming probably drowned out entire countries.
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 02:10 PM   #16
Tarris Vaal
Hench Mutant
 
Tarris Vaal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cullompton, Devon
Posts: 469
Well lets look at the options - Looking at Motive, Resources, and Means to create a world ending mutagen bomb.

Barring an unknown enemy, that leaves us 2 known and 1 potential enemy + 1 wild card option.

Kraang
Baxter Stockman
EPF
Donatello


Kraang have certainly, means, resources and motive to commit such an act, but their hivemind was - so far as we are aware - crippled by the death of Kraang Prime at the hands of the Triceratons. The Kraang should no longer be a threat at all, though its possible Kraang enclaves still exist under different leadership like Sub Primes.

Baxter has a strong motivation to try and make himself a mutant again, and the comics (and 1 episode) have indicated a desire to mutate others to use as slaves/servants. He certainly has the technical expertise to create both the weapon and to program the mutagen. Given the mutagens seemingly ad hoc choice of animal DNA to splice - it suggests access to a menagerie and stockpiles of animal DNA. Something Baxter is also known to have had. So far as resources go, though he relied on Shredder, Shredders resources didn't vanish with him. Baxter could easily have taken what he needed - including a massive stockpile of mutagen Shredder was known to have had.


The EPF salvaged multiple examples of kraang tech and equipment. This likely included mutagen. They could have sought to weaponize it but this does seem against their modus operandum. However the EPF has been shown to be corrupted before. They have at least national support so resources and means are no problem - but it becomes a question of motive; why would they create such a weapon in the first place?


Donatello - our wild card option - certainly has the technical know how to create such a device. And from salvaging Shredder and Kraang lairs, its perfectly possible significant mutagen could be salvaged. However he would have no motive to make it into a weapon of any magnitude, far less one that size. Unless perhaps it was needed for some other crisis - after all the moon is shown to be massively damaged and a mutagen bomb on Earth would not have affected it. If the weapon had been created to deal with another threat and had malfunctioned in some way, the results could have been catastrophic. However RoboDon shows no remorse for any such mistake, something that seems highly unlikely of his character if such an event were his fault.


So reviewing the options it seems most likely that - barring an unknown threat - Baxter Stockman is the likeliest candidate for the disaster. With the EPF attempting to deal with another extra-terrestrial threat as a potential 2nd option.



While I have my theorizing hat on...

As for the device itself.... If it were as powerful as suggested, destroying the entire human race and leaving only mutants, there is no feasible way Leo could have survived being at the epicentre. The blastwave alone would have seen to him, and all the others.

I suspect its probably simpler to presume the device acted to blast mutagen into the upper atmosphere, where it would act like a massive dirty bomb, scattering tiny doses of weaponised mutagen across a huge area and allowing wind to naturally spread it. Its likely huge numbers of exposed people would have died shortly afterward from unstable mutation, with the fall out affecting crops, vegetation and natural wildlife across the USA. The Eastern US Coast and its massive cities would have been severely hit, with wind patterns carrying the mutagenic clouds west and south.

The resulting political fallout of the USA being completely crippled could well have then brought massive conflict outside the US, while inside the US citizenry is tearing itself apart coping with devastated infrastructure, millions mutated, and millions more wild and mutated.

The US evacuates what it can in a huge refugee crisis, further destabilizing everywhere else while it struggles with anti mutant sentiment. It would be most likely that it would be around this period that Casey, April, Karai and Shinigami would have met their ends. Aprils broken Tessen implies a death in combat, rather than from mutation for instance.


Its likely the US is declared a quarantine zone while the mutated fauna and flora wreak havoc. Given its only 50 yrs ahead and the skies are reasonably clear, it seems unlikely that the desertification we see is a result of nuclear war. So its possible Raph is actually incorrect in his assumption - and its only the North American continent that is a mutant wasteland. Which also explains why Oasis exists at all and seems to be extremely large - presumably they would have reached the edge of the affected area.
__________________
Help animate the Sedisverse - Kickstarter at;

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...the-sedisverse
Tarris Vaal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 02:36 PM   #17
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 31,528
Kind of makes you wonder why Renet didn't try to help the Turtles undo this damage, especially since she just recently saw them in the monster arc. If this was just any other apoctalyptic future arc in the middle of the series, Renet would have helped the Turtles travel back in time to stop the mutagen bomb from going off.
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 02:40 PM   #18
TurtleTitan97
Space Cowboy
 
TurtleTitan97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Speed Force
Posts: 6,503
Or it's possible the Mutagen Bomb was always meant to go off and is a key moment in the timeline. If Renet's existence is proof of anything, some humans must have survived.
__________________
TMNT Fan Club:




TurtleTitan97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 04:14 PM   #19
BubblyShell22
Leo-holic
 
BubblyShell22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 16,917
I'm definitely leaning toward the theory that maybe one of the Kraang went rogue and did this possibly with Stockman's help.
__________________
"A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One.

"Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.
BubblyShell22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:37 AM   #20
Chris
Mad Scientist
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
1. If there are no humans left, does that mean it's because they became mutants, or that they just plain died out? We see a bunch of humans become mutants in the flashback, however Casey Jones' skull is 100% that of a human. So he was okay, yeah? Does that mean then that some humans, perhaps those who were in basements or bunkers, for example, weren't exposed, then later died of natural causes or were killed by mutants?
I think the mutagen bomb partially terraformed the earth. There's no way it covered the whole world in mutagen and mutated everybody (plus Casey's skull wasn't mutated like you point out). Didn't Raph mention Mutagen Wars at one point as well? Maybe the wars were over whatever mutagen was left as people needed to become mutants to survive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
2. Is it possible that the strike was indeed Kraang's doing? They never had their plots 100% tied up, did they? Could Prime have still been around in some capacity? It'd make sense that she/it wanted revenge & as such pulled a caper like this. I don't remember how they ended up. Did they blow up the moon, too, to mess with tides & other earthly processes?
It's certainly possible. We see Prime and Subprime on the Technodrome when the Triceratons destroy it at the end of season 3, but in season 4 (after the past has been changed) we only see the Technodrome getting destroyed not Prime or Subprime on it. Of course they could be dead and it could just be some random Kraang extremist (heck, let's call him Ch'rell) out for revenge.

I'm guessing the moon gets damaged in the mutagen wars that followed (again assuming they followed the bomb, they could have come before I guess with the bomb being the end of the wars)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
3. If we're to believe this was all going down somewhere in the vicinity of NY, the tri-state area or whatever, what's up with the dominant species gangs? Meerkats (formerly), lizards, honey badgers, they don't exactly run in packs around their neck of the woods. Why weren't they just deformed humanoids or a wide variety of different animals? I guess we can just assume the creative team had to make good use of their 3D resources & as such limited the species count, but even so, why pick those 3 over any other?
No idea. Maybe they just thought the designs worked best out of the designs they had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
4. Was hair growth a side effect of minor mutagen exposure for the turtles? Why Raph/Mikey but not Leo? Did he shave, despite his manic state?
I think only Leo was double mutated and the hair growth on Raph and Mikey just came with age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
Do you personally believe other mutant homies of the turtles are still kicking at that point? Like Slash/Leatherhead at least? I'd like to think so. Kind of a shame we didn't get to know anyone else's fate, if you ask me.
I don't think their close allies (April, Casey, Karai) are but hopefully some of the others are. It would have been great to see some of them in the mutant gangs, even just as cameos.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.