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Old 10-21-2017, 11:37 AM   #1
Tetsu Deinonychus
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What Would a Mirage Version of Rocksteady and Bebop Have Been Like?

Ever since Powder posted Eastman and Laird's original Rocksteady and Bebop designs in another thread. I've been wondering what they would have been like if E&L had decided to just throw them into Mirage. I don't think they would have been "bumbling henchmen" to a Shredder that spends most of the series dead.

I know they wouldn't be the same kind of Mutants the Turtles are, since there's a rule about that. But, that doesn't stop anthropomorphic animal characters (Chote, Worm People, Fish people, Triceratons and other alien dinosaur races, The ancient civilization of Monkeys and Cats that Pai-Doth Noor is from, which could easily include Rhinos and Boars as well) from existing anyway.

My guess is that they would have showed up in only a couple of issues (perhaps as part of "Tales") and they would have been just troublesome thugs with no connection to the Foot. They could overwhelm the Turtles with their Strength until the Turtles outsmart them.

But, what do you think?
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Old 10-21-2017, 01:45 PM   #2
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Where's Andrew
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Old 10-21-2017, 01:49 PM   #3
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Where's Andrew
Still banned, lol.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:01 PM   #4
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I see them similar to the IDW version of Bebop and Rocksteady, not much when it comes to brainpower but are basically unstoppable juggernauts
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:03 PM   #5
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I don't know if it would be right to go back and stick those two into the Mirage comics. However, had fred wolf and playmates gone with the original designs, and the two played as serious, murderous threats instead of bumbling goofballs, I think Mirage fans wouldn't hate them as much.

Those mirage-like Eastman and Laird designs are the source material for Bebop and Rocksteady, not the OT. This is how they were originally intended, not silly goofballs.

And those designs prove Bebop and Rocksteady were NOT originally conceived as jokes, and were intended to be dangerous monsters. Anyone who hates them just because they come from the OT, and doesn't want them to reappear in a future version as serious, murderous threats like Eastman and laird intended them to be, is just spewing blind hate.
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:23 PM   #6
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Eastman and Laird did concept sketches for TOYS.

Not for comic characters.

I love me some IDW Bop and Rock, but Bebop and Rocksteady did not and would not ever belong in a Mirage/Image-style universe.

The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.

And I don't care that they never showed up. Mirage was special, and except for the occasional Andrew official-fan fic, it's over.
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:35 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
Eastman and Laird did concept sketches for TOYS.

Not for comic characters.

I love me some IDW Bop and Rock, but Bebop and Rocksteady did not and would not ever belong in a Mirage/Image-style universe.

The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.

And I don't care that they never showed up. Mirage was special, and except for the occasional Andrew official-fan fic, it's over.
I agree, they don't belong in mirage, and they never will. But I will be very happy if these designs show up in a future, grim 'n gritty version with a destructive nature and personality similar to idw.
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Old 10-23-2017, 09:12 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
Eastman and Laird did concept sketches for TOYS.

Not for comic characters.

I love me some IDW Bop and Rock, but Bebop and Rocksteady did not and would not ever belong in a Mirage/Image-style universe.

The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.

And I don't care that they never showed up. Mirage was special, and except for the occasional Andrew official-fan fic, it's over.
I do agree that Bebop and Rocksteady wouldn't work in a Mirage comics, and while I agree with your choice of characters, I would also add the following: Wingnut (alien version), Mutagen Man (what Peter Laird invisioned), Newtralizer (considering Ryan Brown's idea), Traximus, Silver Sentry, Tatsu, Bellybomb, Maligna, Null, and the Ancient One.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:36 AM   #9
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I don't think Bebop and Rocksteady would ever work in Mirage.

They don't fit with the overall tone the series had.
And, yeah, the series wasn't always serious, it did have it's sillier issues, but still B&R are way too dopey for it to work properly.

And Mirage wasn't mutant oriented like all other versions have been.
Apart from the 4 guys, Splinter, Leatherhead, Bloodsucker, and King Kimodo there weren't really any more (that I can think of off the top of my head).
In Mirage mutants were a rare thing, they were special.
Having B&R would take away from that.

Also, they technically were in Mirage.
At least their Archie versions, in that crossover with the C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa.
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:39 PM   #10
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In Mirage mutants were a rare thing, they were special.
Having B&R would take away from that.
There are circa 7 000 000 000 humans on Earth, not even mention all ordinary animals and plants on the planet. If you then also have, let's say anything between 20-150 mutants on Earth who all have to hide from society, does that make the turtles so less special?

So I think any TMNT version can choose some mutants its producers like without any major problem, as long as they're well-written (but of course, we want any character well-written).
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan View Post
Those mirage-like Eastman and Laird designs are the source material for Bebop and Rocksteady, not the OT. This is how they were originally intended, not silly goofballs.
And, that's what has me intrigued.

And, I know they don't really belong in Mirage, but this is a hypothetical "what if?" kinda thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.
That's a good list, though I don't know much about the IDW version of Slash and would prefer an Archie-style one (complete with his tragic origin and brutal temper), and like 2k3, I would throw in Null, Maligna, and the Ancient One.
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:39 PM   #12
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And, I know they don't really belong in Mirage, but this is a hypothetical "what if?" kinda thing.
Having two random punks transform into a pig and rhino would be very off for Mirage. Even just having them be mutated zoo animals would come across as odd, aliens might be a better choice in this case. As for personality and role, I guess less goofy versions of what IDW gave us.

Regardless, I wouldn't want Bebop and Rocksteady running around in Mirage ever, they wouldn't fit the tone.
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:28 PM   #13
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I find it weird in retrospect that they kept beating into our heads that the Turtles, Splinter, Leatherhead, and Bloodsucker (STILL COUNTS DAMMIT) are the only mutants because introducing more would make them less special...

But they introduce like 50 other types of anthropomorphs.

The origins don't matter if you've got a bunch of similar beings just running around. Hell some of them had been just chillin' on Earth forever.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:30 PM   #14
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Not to mention aliens walk around the Earth normally in the early 2000's when Mirage Volume 4 took place, ala Fast Forward in the 2k3 series but at least that was 100 years in the future.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:36 PM   #15
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I find it weird in retrospect that they kept beating into our heads that the Turtles, Splinter, Leatherhead, and Bloodsucker (STILL COUNTS DAMMIT) are the only mutants because introducing more would make them less special...

But they introduce like 50 other types of anthropomorphs.

The origins don't matter if you've got a bunch of similar beings just running around. Hell some of them had been just chillin' on Earth forever.
Yeah, Archie's like that too (not surprising, it was written by a Mirage writer).

Honestly, I'm fine with more variety in the origins, rather than every anthopomorph being a product of Utrom Mutagen (I vastly prefer Slash as an alien rather than a mutant, for example), but it does make the "mutant ban" seem a little silly.

Anyway, given the "Road Warrior" inspired look of the E&L designs, I wonder if they wouldn't work as part of a post-apocalyptic future story rather than a "present day" story. Maybe, they'd have worked as part of the Palladium RPG's "After The Bomb" scenario, or the future set issues of "Tales".
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:00 PM   #16
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Not to mention aliens walk around the Earth normally in the early 2000's when Mirage Volume 4 took place, ala Fast Forward in the 2k3 series but at least that was 100 years in the future.
The turtles usually enter society in the future.
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Because the crossovers doing nothing else than messing up the timeline and other stuff of the 1987-1996 series, I've given up writing fanfiction about it. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the TMNT as many other fanfiction writers do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus View Post
Ever since Powder posted Eastman and Laird's original Rocksteady and Bebop designs in another thread. I've been wondering what they would have been like if E&L had decided to just throw them into Mirage.


Quote:
My guess is that they would have showed up in only a couple of issues (perhaps as part of "Tales")
I believe it was Tristan who was pushing that at one point, Bebop and Rocksteady sort of appearing in Tales V2 through some kind of dimensional gateway. Peter said "No," bless his heart.
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:00 PM   #18
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The designs originally created by Eastman and Laird would have worked well as henchmen for Savanti in the Cerebus crossover. Anyone disagree?
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:12 PM   #19
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The designs originally created by Eastman and Laird would have worked well as henchmen for Savanti in the Cerebus crossover. Anyone disagree?
No. But... why even do that, force that comparison? Why dredge out something not good just for the sake of it?
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:21 PM   #20
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I believe it was Tristan who was pushing that at one point, Bebop and Rocksteady sort of appearing in Tales V2 through some kind of dimensional gateway. Peter said "No," bless his heart.
Really? I don't remember him ever saying that... if anyone could've done it, though, it'd be Tristan.
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