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Old 11-16-2017, 11:08 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by sdp View Post
I also equate this to teenager angst, I'm guessing this will be controversial but it's my conclusion over what I've seen the past few years.

We all have angst when we're younger and deal with it with some subculture, whether it's punk, goth, nerd, etc. Those who don't fit to the "normal" standard were freaks and we went to the subculture that most interested us or felt was us.

What happened recently is we finally started seeing needed social change towards gays and others. But somewhere along those lines this idea was warped into "they have been holding us back" and "rethink who you are" and "they" are the evil ones. This is highly attractive to kids who are confused and are trying to find who they are in this world.

Instead of wearing all black however they are a different gender and because they were told they were an infinite amount of genders they can choose. Now I'm not saying people can't have different likes or that I know better than them who they are but it's gotten to a ridiculous point that it's not out there to say that many of these people are just in it to feel accepted. Because we've all joined subcultures to feel accepted even if it wasn't for us.

Young people also like to protest, whether it's war, the 1% which was "my generation" and now gender, this will continue as long as we live over different issues. Not all their talking points are great but if you question them you're treated poorly, they found that through social media they can bully people into submission, which has had bad consequences including in my opinion getting Trump elected.

Live and let live.

What's wrong with being a "freak"? I certainly wore that label with pride, to shame others for not conforming to your views makes you as bad as the people you are claiming to be better than. Learn to fight your battles, giving rights to gays/trans etc is excellent, shaming people because they're ignorant for not knowing there are 60+ genders is not. You hurt the credibility of what has taken a long time to achieve and even what you want to continue to achieve when it comes to social progress. And don't talk about privilege when you're living in a first world country please, it's insulting.
All of this sounds about right.

For me, as a kid in Seattle, there was definitely a lot of "rebellions" at times. I saw a lot of the "grunge movement" unfold around me firsthand in about middle school (it combusted almost as quickly as it happened, by the way... people act like it was this decade long thing -- it wasn't) juxtaposed against the equally growing gangsta rap crowd, and also Marilyn Manson-fueled goths (and I loved Manson's stuff but man he has some sh**** fans). I always got along with the gangsta crowd and some odd ducks from various clicks. Everyone else, it was a whole lot of, "I'm not gonna conform! Screw the system, screw the man, screw the norm! Are you with me? Why aren't you with me? Rahhh!!!" For me, this just seemed exhausting. I mean, why do this? Why even contemplate doing this? It didn't seem remotely healthy or fulfilling. The idea of a label or a click/tribe to assign myself to was never an attractive one, so I'd rather just conform all the same (within reason). It saves a lot of calories and probably a tumor or two as well, as best as I could figure.

Now? Yeah. It's maybe not a 1:1 thing, but I could definitely see the "pick one of these 60+ genders" being the new "choose your click" kind of a thing since nowadays there's a distinct lack of any viable alternatives. Gangsta rap has died and become some kind of pop thing with skinny jeans and emo stuff and goth has sort of transitioned into the gender thing, and nothing has really replaced either niche those two things held in the 90s. Even the more obscure stuff like "sk8er"s and such... that's gone, largely.

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Old 11-17-2017, 12:22 AM   #82
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I imagine it really isn't much different than the stereotypes people lived in back in the 80's or 90's.

You had your "skater boys," your "goths," your "nerds or geeks," your "dudebro football players," your, "average joes," etc.

It's the same reason nobody cares about Trekkies anymore. Remember how Star Trek fans used to be made fun of, then the anime craze happened in America and people stopped caring about Trekkies and then "anime weeabo's" became the next big thing to make fun of? And even nowadays you don't see much people complaining about that either, given how mainstream cosplaying and dressing up as cartoon characters has become.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:24 AM   #83
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I dunno if it's really more of a case of being "openly nerdy" becoming more socially acceptable or due to people born in the 80s/90s becoming adults now and no longer caring what people think of their hobbies or someone else's hobbies. I'm sure HS kids still get mocked for liking certain games or tv shows these days.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:31 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
It's the same reason nobody cares about Trekkies anymore.
Hell, Trek doesn't even care about Trekkies anymore.

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Remember how Star Trek fans used to be made fun of, then the anime craze happened in America and people stopped caring about Trekkies and then "anime weeabo's" became the next big thing to make fun of? And even nowadays you don't see much people complaining about that either, given how mainstream cosplaying and dressing up as cartoon characters has become.
Yeah. I remember well flak being thrown at the Pokemon, Digimon, Magic: The Gathering type of peeps. It's an interesting place we're in now. Teenagers have successfully been rendered to (mostly) be unable to project their hate onto any specific faction and geeky dudes are apparently more the norm than the jock types, so things are just getting crazy.

I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's just interesting. I don't know where this course will lead.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:33 AM   #85
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Hell, Trek doesn't even care about Trekkies anymore.



Yeah. I remember flak being thrown at the Pokemon, Digimon, Magic: The Gathering type of peeps. It's an interesting place we're in now. Teenagers are successfully unable to project their hate onto any specific faction and geeky dudes are apparently more the norm than the jock types, so things are just getting crazy.

I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's just interesting. I don't know where this course will lead.
Well depends what type of "geek" you mean. When a young girls says she loves geeky guys, chances are she doesn't mean fat ugly or scrawny ones, but more like regular looking or hipster looking guys who happen to like Dr. Who and such. Just like the athletic guys will always be popular.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:35 AM   #86
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I know I said I wouldn't post here anymore but I just realized something...


Bronies are today's Trekkies
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:39 AM   #87
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I know I said I wouldn't post here anymore but I just realized something...


Bronies are today's Trekkies
Tbh bronies are a strange phenomenon. That's a cartoon for 6 year old girls or smth. I know people say it's written very well for a cartoon of such target demographic... but what exactly is "good writing" for a cartoon aimed at 6 year old girls? How does that standard meet the requirements of a grown man looking for a new cartoon series to watch?
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:42 AM   #88
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Well depends what type of "geek" you mean. When a young girls says she loves geeky guys, chances are she doesn't mean fat ugly or scrawny ones, but more like regular looking or hipster looking guys who happen to like Dr. Who and such. Just like the athletic guys will always be popular.
Yeah, that's what I mean. Fat ugly dudes will always and forever be fat and ugly dudes. Luckily, there are plenty of fat and ugly chicks for them, by the same token.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:44 AM   #89
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Yeah, that's what I mean. Fat ugly dudes will always and forever be fat and ugly dudes. Luckily, there are plenty of fat and ugly chicks for them, by the same token.
Tbh I've seen several couples where one of the parties is fat and the other is thin and or fit. So fat people dating fat people isn't really a rule set in stone from my observation.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:47 AM   #90
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Tbh I've seen several couples where one of the parties is fat and the other is thin and or fit. So fat people dating fat people isn't really a rule set in stone from my observation.
Oh sure. But in those cases that's kind of the way it shakes only if one party is super charismatic or bleed money. Or just some strange background story between them that doesn't fall into any standard parameters. Or they simply vibe.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:53 AM   #91
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Oh sure. But in those cases that's kind of the way it shakes out unless one party is super charismatic or bleed money. Or just some strange background story between them that doesn't fall into any standard parameters.
I had a classmate in HS who was like 5'6, balding already at 16 and was a bit fat. He was very popular and got lots of girls. People, girls/women in particular, can really let physical appearance slide when ti comes to picking a partner, from my observation, even though being good looking obviously puts you ahead of most of your peers.

It might also depend on the country or area you live in. USA has a very high obesity rate compared to my country. Sure we have fat people as well, but I don't see many very fat people among the younger generations here. I notice people start to get fatter when they hit 40, with their metabolism slowing down and such. And by then they're usually already married anyway.
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So I've watched some of April O'Neil's "videos." They were OK, the lesbian massage ones were the best ones. I skimmed through some of the others, but eh.

I've seen better.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:54 AM   #92
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Oh I’m sorry. You are very smart and obviously know your stuff. You totally get what I’m talking about don’t you?
I do.
You apparently missed what I was talking in the first post, which is why I have repeated it for you.

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Glad to learn how many of y’all are transphobic and really glad to be part of this community. Hope you guys never change because Casey Jones always needs a bad guy to fight against and I’ve just realized how many there are in my midst.
There is nothing transphobic about acknowledging objective reality.

Unless you think that objective reality in which biological sexes do exist is transphobic, but this is lunacy, which could not be discussed seriously.

Or you belong to this subset of Left, that insist that people should calling vagina "front hole" and call breastfeeding "chestfeeding", because otherwise it's transphobic?

BTW, Casey do you know, what all those words mean? Last time you have confused claustrophobic with homosexual, so...

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Does anyone else think it's odd that someone who study biology thinks that the penis or vagina generate hormones?
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Man... Does this mean I stop being female when I reach menopause?
I mean, I know women of that age aren't really considered people anymore, but at least I thought I'd get to keep the female designation.
Fat trolling is not your forte, darling.
But if you want to continue playing role of "left lunatic", be my guest.
I hope you are smarter than that, because otherwise you come as liberal version of CyberCubed or this MMC guy.
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:22 PM   #93
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I just came here for the popcorn and the entertainment. So far I have not been disappointed.
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:27 PM   #94
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I just came here for the popcorn and the entertainment. So far I have not been disappointed.
watch the fireworks fly now that 'darling' has been used. the only thing worse to use is 'honey'.

any of us sane people want to come with me to mars and start a new society? no social media allowed .
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:32 PM   #95
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Thanks for bumping this topic.

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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Man... Does this mean I stop being female when I reach menopause?
I mean, I know women of that age aren't really considered people anymore, but at least I thought I'd get to keep the female designation.
If your "keyboard-progressives" and Left-tumblrites will have their way with the world, then quite soon, you might officially lose designation of "woman".
Link.

But since you are SO compassionate and understanding individual, I guess you will be OK with that?
No, really, what are interests and rights of 50% of humanity (rights, which I remind you, women acquired less than 100 years ago) against necessity to placate 0,001% population of Earth and dozens of sick fetishists. Modern Left-lunacy in a nutshell.

Think about it, OK?
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:36 PM   #96
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I agree front-hole is a terrible word for vagina, especially seeing as the urethra sits more frontwards than the vagina. If anything the vagina is the midhole.

But...let's not change the subject: the vagina and penis are not hormone generating organs. At least not in terms of estrogen/progesterone and testosterone, which are the sex hormones I assume you're referring to.

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Thanks for bumping this topic.
If your "keyboard-progressives" and Left-tumblrites will have their way with the world, then quite soon, you might officially lose designation of "woman".
Link.

But since you are SO compassionate and understanding individual, I guess you will be OK with that?
No, really, what are interests and rights of 50% of humanity (rights, which I remind you, women acquired less than 100 years ago) against necessity to placate 0,001% population of Earth and dozens of sick fetishists. Modern Left-lunacy in a nutshell.
Think about it, OK?
That is one heck of a TERF article you've linked to there, Sumac.
And it's not exactly a new opinion for me, though it seems to me to be a new one for you.

It's less that I'm compassionate and understanding an individual, and more that I'm not so freakin' fragile so as to be threatened someone using a gender neutral pronoun.
( fun fact: If I were bothered by such a thing, I wouldn't have specifically chosen a gender neutral username. Which I chose so that people wouldn't condescend to me because I identify as female. )

But hey, than's for the history lesson. I never would have known about the advancements in equal rights for women had you not just told me about them...in a condescending manner, while using pet names for me.
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So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
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A lot just get older and older and angrier and angrier, all the while waiting for the world to bend to their whim, never, ever really being satisfied with any of the "victories" achieved at large and wondering why no one outside of whatever construct bubble they've placed themself [sic] (look, I did it!) in wants to mess with them.

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Old 11-19-2017, 01:51 PM   #97
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But...let's not change the subject: the vagina and penis are not hormone generating organs. At least not in terms of estrogen/progesterone and testosterone, which are the sex hormones I assume you're referring to.
I didn't said that they are generated by hormones.
I am sorry, maybe I didn't make it clear.

Let's try this again:
What I meant is that everything in the body works in conjunction. If you have penis, normally you wouldn't have breasts or overabundance of female hormones. Vice-versa, if you have vagina.

So, what I am basically trying to say is that gender is both social construct and biological reality, when it comes to interaction with the world, reactions to various stimuli and the like.

You might requalify biological parts of what is considered to be "gender" nowadays, as parts of "biological sex" of course, which might solve the problem and make "gender" only social construct.
But to what avail?

As I said before, it would be easier (relatively speaking) to clean both female and male genders from negative stereotypes and connotations associated with them, instead of inventing bicycle and creating 60+ genders for who knows what reason.

And as I said before - fighting labels and stereotypes by inventing new labels and stereotypes is hilariously idiotic, because, in the end those new labels will be considered as toxic as the old ones and then we will need create new labels and so on and on.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:01 PM   #98
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That is one heck of a TERF article you've linked to there, Sumac.
And it's not exactly a new opinion for me, though it seems to me to be a new one for you.

It's less that I'm compassionate and understanding an individual, and more that I'm not so freakin' fragile so as to be threatened someone using a gender neutral pronoun.

( fun fact: If I were bothered by such a thing, I wouldn't have specifically chosen a gender neutral username. Which I chose so that people wouldn't condescend to me because I identify as female. )

But hey, than's for the history lesson. I never would have known about the advancements in equal rights for women had you not just told me about them...in a condescending manner, while using pet names for me.
You're a mensch.
So, when you friends from "keyboard-progressives" club are offended that their self-designations (no matter how ridiculous they are) are not officially recognized - it's not considered fragile.
But when somebody else do not want to be erased - it's fragility?
Cool story!!

Especially hilarious, since we talking about women, who fought long and hard
for equality, a battle which still not won.

And as we know now you are identify yourself as one, which might mean that I am talking with some mustached and bearded gentleman, who beliefs, that despite having penis and none idea what being woman is like, he is still a woman.

Another thing, where I have used pet names for you?

P.S.
People might condense you, not because you "identify yourself as female", but because you act like kid from tumblr, who just have learnt about Left ideology.

P.P.S.
Since you liked my history lesson, there is another one - according to some "left" activists, proclaiming that you are "gay" or "lesbian" is transphobic. Welcome to new world.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:04 PM   #99
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You didn't answer my question.

Would you be OK with your identity as a woman being revoked in favor of "Left ideals of equality" as some of them understand it nowadays?
I'm not generally a fan of people telling me how to identify.
But if abstaining from either woman or female means I finally get my 14 amendment due?
I could get behind that.

Quote:
I didn't said that they are generated by hormones.
I am sorry, maybe I didn't make it clear.
"Your hormones works in conjunction with your body, which is either male or female (bar rare mutations). So if you have penis - your hormones influence your behavior and inform your interaction with the world one way. If you have vagina - in another."

I dunno man, it sure does look like you said that. But you are right, it isn't clear. Especially when it comes shortly after you said you've studied both biology and anthropology.

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Let's try this again:
What I meant is that everything in the body works in conjunction. If you have penis, normally you wouldn't have breasts or overabundance of female hormones. Vice-versa, if you have vagina.
I wouldn't say "normally" I'd say on average this is true.
Because there are men with a penis who also develop breasts, and can get breast cancer.

Using secondary sexual characteristics to define primary sexual characteristics probably isn't the best road to take.

Quote:
So, what I am basically trying to say is that gender is both social construct and biological reality, when it comes to interaction with the world, reactions to various stimuli and the like.
Possibly, but please take into mind biology comes with subjective bias as well. We only work within our current accepted framework, and should that framework be disproven by rigorous testing, then that framework should be reevaluated.

So yeah, you can say that as we now understand it all males are heterozygous X/Y, and females are homozygous X/X...that doesn't necessarily mean that will always be the case. It just means that at the moment that's the frame work we're using because it hasn't been disproven yet.


Quote:
You might requalify biological parts of what is considered to be "gender" nowadays, as parts of "biological sex" of course, which might solve the problem and make "gender" only social construct.
But to what avail?
Gender, to me at least, is the more performative of the two.
Science loves its binaries.
On/off.
Light/dark.
Male/Female.

Because it makes sorting thing easier when you limit the number of categories involved.
But it's objective fact that there are things which do not strictly adhere to binaries.
And human genetics is much more complex than a simple on/off.

Human behavior, cultural constructs are even more complex than that.

If we can comprehend Acid/Base on a spectrum scale...which we do (pH), then why is it people are so resistant to look at sex and gender on the same scale?

Quote:
As I said before, it would be easier (relatively speaking) to clean both female and male genders from negative stereotypes and connotations associated with them, instead of inventing bicycle and creating 60+ genders for who knows what reason.
But if we do that how will you talk down to people using pet names you'd never use for a dude?

Quote:
And as I said before - fighting labels and stereotypes by inventing new labels and stereotypes is hilariously idiotic, because, in the end those new labels will be considered as toxic as the old ones and then we will need create new labels and so on and on.
This is how language changes, yes.
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So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
A lot just get older and older and angrier and angrier, all the while waiting for the world to bend to their whim, never, ever really being satisfied with any of the "victories" achieved at large and wondering why no one outside of whatever construct bubble they've placed themself [sic] (look, I did it!) in wants to mess with them.

Last edited by plastroncafe; 11-19-2017 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:08 PM   #100
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Another thing, where I have used pet names for you?
Really?

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darling.
There ya go
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