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Old 12-16-2017, 04:07 AM   #41
Slap-Happy
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Then how did we get Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman movie without anything since the 70s camp show but a failed pilot and a low market animated movie?

Because one thing worked in the decades past in the mass market doesn't mean that is the hard line in sand forevermore for how a thing must always attain success or relevancy.
It’s the fourth movie in a cinematic universe that has already dictated a visual aesthetic as well as a general tone, even if it has a shift towards more fun and humor. The whole comic book movie thing has been trial and error for the bast forty years, they’re getting the formula down.

Part of the reason they had such freedom is because Wonder Woman film was something that had never been done before. The TMNT have had five theatrical films. Their base personalities are ingrained in the public eye now.

Not to mention that the film portrays the classic Wonder Woman known and loved by people for decades. It’s the pretty much the same Wonder Woman that people have seen since her inception. Yes, the character has evolved since Lynda Carter, but there is a consistency there that allows for her success.

And am I saying that the only chances of success for the Turtles is mainting the status quo? Of course not, we need something new and different for them in film. However, I don’t think just simply adapting Mirage stories is going to be good enough.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:11 AM   #42
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I get that Mirage is your bread and butter, but you don’t seem to be looking at it objectively. Look, I could be completely wrong, but the Mirage comics are such a tonal shift from what the general audience has been fed for decades that I wonder if it can really work.
But it's just about the one thing they've never tried at this point (which also happens to... I dunno, be the actual source material). They tried super wacky "Collect all the monsters stuff!" with the Imagi movie. They tried a semi-serious Fred Wolf without Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang movie in TMNT 2014, then they tried it again with Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang in 2016 and it spectacularly blew up in their faces. Where else to go at this point but back to the legit gritty roots?

I mean, hell, at this point... at least give that a chance to fail on its own right. If it does, at least they actually tried.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:22 AM   #43
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But it's just about the one thing they've never tried at this point (which also happens to... I dunno, be the actual source material).
It’s kind of a reductive way of looking at it. Mirage isn’t the be-all-end all of what defines good TMNT. It’s the source material, yes, but I’d prefer any new films evolve, use the DNA of what came before, but not clone it. I don’t see the purpose of adapting these stories when you can still try a ton of things that have never been seen before.

You can get genuine pathos from these characters if you try. The closest we have gotten to that is the first movie, nearly 30 years ago. If a new movie can give me characters that I have an emotional connection to, it can do whatever it wants.

If that means a complete Mirage adaptation then so be it, but the idea of Mirage being the franchise’s only saving grace is flawed.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:48 AM   #44
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Itís kind of a reductive way of looking at it. Mirage isnít the be-all-end all of what defines good TMNT. Itís the source material, yes, but Iíd prefer any new films evolve, use the DNA of what came before, but not clone it. I donít see the purpose of adapting these stories when you can still try a ton of things that have never been seen before.

You can get genuine pathos from these characters if you try. The closest we have gotten to that is the first movie, nearly 30 years ago. If a new movie can give me characters that I have an emotional connection to, it can do whatever it wants.

If that means a complete Mirage adaptation then so be it, but the idea of Mirage being the franchiseís only saving grace is flawed.
Oh no, don't get me wrong. I know I am posting in the "let's make a pitch perfect Mirage adaptation" thread, but that's not even what I'd see being super successful or even would want to see (granted, I wouldn't be upset if such a thing happened anyway). I'd want a director and creative team with a true understanding of the Mirage TMNT coming to the table with a unique vision that is consistent with the heart and spirit and beats of that that truly brings that into 2017 with their own take that will resonate with new audiences.

Worries about "wh-wh-what about the Fred Wolf fans that want a metric ton of mutants and Beebop?" shouldn't even factor into the equation. They didn't even show up for the last movie anyway, which was made for them.
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Old 12-16-2017, 05:35 AM   #45
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Worries about "wh-wh-what about the Fred Wolf fans that want a metric ton of mutants and Beebop?" shouldn't even factor into the equation. They didn't even show up for the last movie anyway, which was made for them.
Seeing how Bebop and Rocksteady weren't really relevant from 1994 to 2013 (and how they're more or less back to irrelevance at the moment, due to the canning of the Nick show and their removal from IDW's main story), I'd say it's kind of odd how that was ever a concern.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:48 AM   #46
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Three different visions of how it could happen:

First Vision: Live action with PD quality CGI, but mirage style aesthetics. I am imagining in the style of Logan or maybe Sin City. With B/W Bluray DVD edition release. Seriously, this would be an awesome way to set off ... a legit universe Where different animated/comic counterparts of TMNT ... become a live action movie.

Second Vision: Extension of Turtle's forever version of 2D Mirage TMNT. Personally, I like the aesthetic of the animation and I would mind seeing a full adaptation of the Mirage Comics in that style.

Third Vision: You know what would be amazing. An adaptation of the first comic.... with different aesthetics. Kind of like an anniversary "series". Since we got Things Change, I will exclude 2k3 Turtles. But wouldn't it be awesome to see the FW Turtles and the Nick Turtles... go through the story of the Mirage comics (just issue #1). What if we got it in the PD Turtles, Imagi Series, etc.

If not that, I'd like to see the First Movie Jim Henson Turtles - reimagined into CGI style and with a really close adaptation.
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:11 PM   #47
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I mean, hell, at this point... at least give that a chance to fail on its own right. If it does, at least they actually tried.
They have tried-- in 1990. It's one of the most successfully pulled off, deeply revered things in the franchise, not to mention immensely profitable.

Barron recognized the early Mirage issues as perfect storyboards. It's a shame no other filmmaker has.
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Old 12-20-2017, 12:35 PM   #48
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frankly speaking.

I see the mirage comics being more of like the visual comic "movie", kind of movies. Similar to the smash up game had, or even the 2012 TMNT series cross over. That would keep the gritty tone, atmosphere, and black and white art style.

A big budget movie with CGI and actors - I think should remain as an evolution of TMNT
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:23 PM   #49
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I say just do it. No excuses. Just make a full animated Mirage issue 1 movie as an anniversary special or something. If you attach TMNT to the title, they will watch. Gather news and hype that 'whaaat?? This isn't the Cowabunga pizza eaters?' and people will watch out of curiosity alone.

We all loved campy Batman back then and noone would have complained if they made a camp Batman movie sequel back in 88. But instead Burton decided to take a more serious route. But can Batman be taken seriously? Will this non-Adam West Batman succeed?? Burton said '**** it' and just made it and here we are, who cares if the Camp Batman surfing Joker fans would love it or not.

Someone needs to say '**** it' and just make an animated Mirage movie and see what happens.
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:26 PM   #50
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I say just do it. No excuses. Just make a full animated Mirage issue 1 movie as an anniversary special or something. If you attach TMNT to the title, they will watch. Gather news and hype that 'whaaat?? This isn't the Cowabunga pizza eaters?' and people will watch out of curiosity alone.

We all loved campy Batman back then and noone would have complained if they made a camp Batman movie sequel back in 88. But instead Burton decided to take a more serious route. But can Batman be taken seriously? Will this non-Adam West Batman succeed?? Burton said '**** it' and just made it and here we are, who cares if the Camp Batman surfing Joker fans would love it or not.

Someone needs to say '**** it' and just make an animated Mirage movie and see what happens.
It would definitely get people talking about TMNT again instead of apologizing for it.
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:43 PM   #51
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Plus, its not like Mirage is so distant off till the point where casual tmnt fans wont recognize anything about it.

Most of the basic points about the tmnt will still be present in an issue 1 adaptation.

1. The turtles are mutant ninjas who live in New York and have to hide in the shadows? Check
2. Splinter is their sensei and has japanese roots? Check
3. Their enemies are the Foot Clan, led by the Shredder? Check

The only things people would be slightly off put by is maybe No April but she appears later on in issue 2 of Mirage anyway. The Gritty tone won't be polarizing in my opinion.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:58 PM   #52
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Plus, its not like Mirage is so distant off till the point where casual tmnt fans wont recognize anything about it.
Casual fans might be confused when they see the TMNT actually behaving as ninja. That's OK.
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Old 12-20-2017, 04:14 PM   #53
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considering that the Nick Turtles are 10x more ninja then the Mirage Turtles, casual fans that didn't stop with the Turtles post 90's shouldn't be too confused about the Turtles ninja-ing.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:13 PM   #54
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Real Ninja, Ninja Turtles. LOL
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Old 12-21-2017, 03:48 PM   #55
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Yeah, I think just the title "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" is going to attract people, regardless of whether it is Mirage or Platinum Dunes.
Actually I think people with everything we have today TMNT seems kind of a normal title.

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The audience for Mirage TMNT is far more niche than people think.
Agreed. TMNT is nowhere near the popularity of DC or Marvel. It's a phenomenon but no due to it's comics but due to the franchise as a whole. Yet even as a phenomenon it doesn't match something like Superman in popularity. It would be interesting to compare the popularity of Deadpool to TMNT as well since both are self-referential.

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This comparison doesnít actually work. The situations are different. In making the Fred Wolf show, both the production companies and Playmates knew they were defining these characters to a larger, broader audience. They were creating a product to be consumed by the masses. Letís not act like the Mirage comics were very popular outside of the niche market of the adult independent comics reader.

I get that Mirage is your bread and butter, but you donít seem to be looking at it objectively. Look, I could be completely wrong, but the Mirage comics are such a tonal shift from what the general audience has been fed for decades that I wonder if it can really work.

And the Batman comparisons donít stand very well either. It took Batman nearly 70 years to get something like Batman Begins, and even then it was after years and years of entertainment moving that way. You donít get Nolan without Burton.
Great points! When the Fred Wolf cartoon series aired it was almost a fresh plate and fortunately or unfortunately it formed people's perceptions of the franchise.

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I'd want a director and creative team with a true understanding of the Mirage TMNT coming to the table with a unique vision that is consistent with the heart and spirit and beats of that that truly brings that into 2017 with their own take that will resonate with new audiences.
The only way you're going to see something like that is if it's lower budget and attracts the same audience as something like Deadpool.

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They didn't even show up for the last movie anyway, which was made for them.
Well it wasn't made for me. That wasn't a Fred Wolf live action film, it was a Michael Bay movie with characters from the FW cartoon forced on.

But I did see it.

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They have tried-- in 1990. It's one of the most successfully pulled off, deeply revered things in the franchise, not to mention immensely profitable.

Barron recognized the early Mirage issues as perfect storyboards. It's a shame no other filmmaker has.
To be honest any TMNT with money spent on it would have been a success back in the Turtlemania of 1990. We were just lucky that we got a great film.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:55 AM   #56
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considering that the Nick Turtles are 10x more ninja then the Mirage Turtles
You think so?
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Old 12-29-2017, 11:30 PM   #57
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I love the Mirage-series, but there is only one issue I really-really-really want to see in a pitch perfect live action or animated adaptation: the Leonardo micro. Christmas preparations included and the action scenes in great samurai movie style.
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