Inifinite Crisis (spoilerific!) [Archive]

DrSpengler

01-26-2005, 02:41 PM

Yeah, a second Crisis is coming. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing. I wasn't too happy with the recent Superman retcon. Byrnes' Man of Steel origin was so much better than that Birthright BS. Just because Smallville is popular doesn't mean they have to implement it into the comic!

Gah....

So I imagine if this new Crisis has the same objective as Crisis on Infinite Earths and Zero Hour, to clean up continuity, they'll probably cover the retcon of Superman's origin, much to my dismay, and officially erase Man of Steel from history.

As far as confirmed events that are going to happen in next year's Crisis, we KNOW that Troia (Donna Troy) will be coming back. Her "death" in Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day had her transported to some kind of battle, and her brief appearance in Teen Titans shows she's still there.

Here's hoping that 2005's event title is as good as 2004's event title. Identity Crisis was absolutely amazing.

Anarky

01-26-2005, 02:47 PM

DrSpengler

01-26-2005, 02:51 PM

Where did Troia have an appearance in TT? I have read the issues up to 20. If it's in there somewhere I'm really good in missing stuff.

And Graduation Day was just stupid. Probably the worst way to end YJ, a series I loved so much. And I thik Donna really is dead. The battle is, I guess, her afterlife or something.

And what really bugs me, is that they're again meesing with Supes. I mean, can't they just leave him alone for five years without really messing around with him (last thing was the "Zap-Supie" thing).

When Ares pulls Wonder Girl aside to speak with her. He warns her that a Crisis is coming and after she leaves he observes Troia still in battle somewhere.

I can look through my collection and get you the issue number if you want.

Graduation Day felt rather rushed. The rogue Superman Android was just so random. I guess that was the point. Troia's death was meant to be a big "Surprise". Felt more like something Marvel would write.

I just want Troia to come back so I can see a team-up of the ORIGINAL Teen Titans. Nightwing, the Flash, Arsenal, Tempest (where has he been since Graduation Day, anyway?), and Troia.

Anarky

01-26-2005, 02:58 PM

Aw, nay. I don't want Troia back. I don't want death to lose any meaning in 616 an/or the DCU. It's not funny how they are messing up those characters.

Sure, I liked Troia, but... come on!

I mean Lobo being shot and coming back I can understand, because it was part of his origin. And when Superman died I was like "Oh, my god... he's... he's d-d-dead!" I really felt bad for him, and every second of hom being dead got to me. And I was so happy when he was back.

Tempest has, afaik, got a child. Maybe he needs to take care of her.

And I also don't like all that retconning they're doing.

And Doc, you seem to know a lot about the 2nd crisis. can you list all the facts you know of please?

DrSpengler

01-26-2005, 06:00 PM

Not much. I believe it will be called "Countdown", though.

Jim Lee drew this peice of cover art and Alex Ross painted it:

http://www.alexrossart.com/rossreport/dec2004/dc_count_lg.jpg

The image showed up in the 2005 Previews book.

Also, this new "Crisis" also falls on the real-world 20th anniversary of the original Crisis on Infinite Earths (1985).

Now, whether this new Crisis will be reality altering to clean up continuity like the original and Zero Hour, or if it will just be a big even title like Identity Crisis, is anyone's guess at this point.

But, apparantly, someone's gonna die.

Anarky

01-26-2005, 06:36 PM

Hmmm, just a random thought of mine: Nightwing. The guy Bats is holding is Dick Grayson. I can't explain Starfire if it wasn't him. Or, then again, who were Star's love interests. Wasn't she with GL/Kyle?

but anyways: Thank you very much for the info.

And why the heck does Alex Ross suck so abnormally bad in whatever he does?

DrSpengler

01-26-2005, 06:42 PM

To be honest, looking at the pic, I'd say Batman's holding Blue Beetle. He's blue and if you look closely he's got those goggle-eye-things.

But then, who gives a sh*t about Blue Beetle?

As for Alex Ross, I like his art style. It's far from your typical comic book art. Kingdom Come was phenominal.

Brodie

01-26-2005, 06:48 PM

And why the heck does Alex Ross suck so abnormally bad in whatever he does?

I don't see you making a career out of painting comic books monthly. To say someone that amazing in his field, sucked, that's crazy. That's like saying Jarrah's artowkr was 'classy' compaired to ALEX EFFIN' ROSS. Not to mention something drawn by Jim Lee.

Harsh words buddy.

DrSpengler

01-26-2005, 06:56 PM

I don't see you making a career out of painting comic books monthly. To say someone that amazing in his field, sucked, that's crazy. That's like saying Jarrah's artowkr was 'classy' compaired to ALEX EFFIN' ROSS. Not to mention something drawn by Jim Lee.

Harsh words buddy.

Well, I'd say cut him a little slack, I've met a number of people who dislike his artwork.

It's different, and I guess some people don't really "get" it.

Personally, I don't "get" why people like Humberto Ramos, LeSean Thomas or Francisco Herrera. And I'll never bring myself to like Joe Madrueria, and he has a HUGE fanbase. But that's just me.

It's all a matter of opinion. Kingdome Come was one of the best TPBs I've ever read, and Marvels was brilliant as well.

Brodie

01-26-2005, 06:59 PM

Yeah I was a bit harsh. But I just hold a lot of respect for a guy who can paint whole comics. There's just something that involves some serious skill to be able to have everything in the panels, and everything to flow.

But yeah, i see what you mean, I can't stand Mike McKone, and some others, but I love Humberto Ramos and Guirrera.

DrSpengler

01-26-2005, 07:05 PM

I picked up the Spectacular Spider-Man trades and Ramos just didn't do it for me. The story was excellent but his artsyle just did NOT match. Everything was so dark and moody, the Goblin turning Flash into a vegetable, Doctor Octopus remembering his horrible shildhood, Eddie Brock revealing his cancer...and Ramos just draws it all goofy like they stepped out of a Disney cartoon. The writing and the art just don't blend well.

And Fransico Herrera...yikes. I just hate his art all the way around. Ed McGuinness ranks as one of my favorites, and his arc on Thundercats looked spectacular. Then Herrera comes in for an issue with his ugly style that absolutely does NOT mesh with McGuinness', and the whole issue was just distracting.

Anarky

01-26-2005, 07:07 PM

From what I have experienced, Ross is a guy whose art you either love or hate. I respect his work, I know that he does it with a passion and airbrush but I just can't get myself to like him. It's odd, you know. Everyone tells me he's so great but I just don't like him.

Favourite artists of mine: Bruce Timm, Todd Nauck, Val Semeiks, Shane Glines and some others.

To the blue beetle thing: Who cared about Sue Dibney? But what are those other people doing on this artwork? I mean, Power Girl, Starfire, Dr. Fate, they are not like "Oh hey, someone's dead, lets's go and have a look"

DrSpengler

01-26-2005, 07:13 PM

To the blue beetle thing: Who cared about Sue Dibney? But what are those other people doing on this artwork? I mean, Power Girl, Starfire, Dr. Fate, they are not like "Oh hey, someone's dead, lets's go and have a look"

Well yeah, but Sue wasn't on any of the covers. Besides, they've already gotten the "deeply personal" story out of their system with Identity Crisis. I imagine Countdown is going to be a big blow-out with tons of action (the polar opposite to Identity Crisis). And killing of such a third tier character isn't going to get many people all hot and bothered. But hey, it could still be good. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

In regards to the cast assembled in the pic, I think they were all just drawn randomly. I mean, what relation does Dr. Fate have to Dick Grayson? Powergirl?

However, the crap Nightwing has been going through lately may just lead up to his death. It isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Kinda like Barry Allen. His life went to utter Hell toward the end of his series only to have him sacrifice himself in the Crisis. Nightwing may end up mimicing that.

But I still think it looks more like Blue Beetle.

Anarky

01-26-2005, 07:18 PM

You know, they've got something like a year's time to make something out of Blue Beetle. If they manage to do that and us fanboys and girls believing it, then you might (i say might) be touched by his death.

There aren't too many goggled heroes, are there?

And how did Identity crisis turn out? I can wait ages until it gets over here?

Brodie

01-26-2005, 08:09 PM

Impulse has goggles....

But I doubt Batman would be holding him.

Anarky

01-26-2005, 08:12 PM

Well, if you read the new Titans
Impulse now calls himself Kid Flash after being shot in the knee

and Batman could be holding gim, since he was the one who has given him the name "Impulse".

What about Jesse Quick? She has goggles too, but the person Bats is holding looks pretty male to me...

azure turtle

01-27-2005, 02:08 AM

To be honest, looking at the pic, I'd say Batman's holding Blue Beetle. He's blue and if you look closely he's got those goggle-eye-things.
I thought he looked a lot like Blue Beetle, too. Guess only time will tell. Why is Batman the focus of that painting? I wonder if it has anything to do with the events in Identity Crisis.
His mindwiping...
But then, who gives a sh*t about Blue Beetle?
I like him... I thought he was funny in Formerly Known as the Justice League.

Anarky

01-27-2005, 07:15 AM

Can someone please tell me how Identity crisis ended and what the major "big things" were? I'm way behind and knowing what happened during IC seems to be important here...

DrSpengler

01-27-2005, 08:58 AM

What about Jesse Quick? She has goggles too, but the person Bats is holding looks pretty male to me...

Jesse Quick recently lost all her super speed powers in The Flash: Blitz (the BEST Flash story ever written!). So she's pretty much out of the picture for now.

And in regards to Identity Crisis:

Elongated Man's Wife, Sue Dibney was mysteriously murdered. After that, someone attempted to murder Jean Loring (The Atom's divorced wife) and started sending notes to the loved ones of other super heroes, such as Lois Lane and Jack Drake. Jack Drake then got murdered by Captain Boomerang, who in turn got shot by Jack Drake. The JLA is stumped as to who is committing all these crimes.

Turns out, many years ago, certain members of the JLA used to mind-wipe certain villains to protect their identities. Dr. Light was one of them, but he got more than a mind-wipe. They completely rewrote hs personality and turned him into a bumbling stooge. They did this because he had just raped Sue Dibney (when she was alive). Batman just happened to walk in on the event and they were forced to wipe his memories of it too (though they think he still has knowledge of the event).

Now all this stuff is coming back to bite them in the ass.

Meanwhile, Captian Boomerang's estranged son, Owen, takes up the mantle of his father.

Back at the Atom's place, he and Jean have gotten back together in the midst of all the tragedy. However, she let's slip a little too much information. As a result it turns out that she committed all the crimes. After she divorced the Atom she got half his patents, including his shrink belt. She shrunk down and jumped into Sue's head. She only wanted to knock Sue out but she effed up and killed her. Jean continued to go off the deep-end, fake her own attempted murder, and hired to Captain Boomerang to kill Jack Drake (she assumed Jack Drake would be able to protect himself).

The reason behind it all was so that she could get the Atom to come back to her. Instead, he locks her up in Arkham.

The effects of Identity Crisis ripple through to all the titles. The Flash struggles to cope with how his mentor, Barry Allen, mind-wiped many villains, Robin tries to deal with his father's death and not turn out like Batman, and so on.

I know my description didn't sound very good, that's because there's a LOT of story and a good summary would take up several pages. This is just the jist of it all. The actual story may be the best comic I read in 2004.

It's very moving, beautifully illustrated, and the mystery is baffling (well, it was at the time).

I highly recommend it.

ZariusTwo

01-28-2005, 12:05 PM

Identity Crisis was something that started strong, only to collapse on itself, the mystery became totally predicatble and obvious, it ignored Ralph Dibney completly after Issue Three, although it did have it's merit in building up Deathstroke and Dr. Light as creidble villains once more, and making Tim Drake an orphan.

DrSpengler

03-30-2005, 02:10 PM

Again, Spoilers!

So the 80-page Countdown to Infinite Crisis came out today (and only a buck). My suspicions have been confirmed, it is Blue Beetle dead on the cover.

It's a shame, too. I had just read JLA a New Beginning, Formerly Known as Justice League and I Can't Believe It's Now Justice League; I was really starting to like him!

I felt really sorry for him. His friends all dumped him, he went bankrupt, lost all his weapons and technology, Booster got put in the hospital, no one took him seriously as a hero anymore, he lost the scarab of Blue Beetle I, He solved the mystery but couldn't get the answer out to help anyone, and Maxwell Lord ended up betraying him. A real shame. I'm sure the other DC heroes will be feeling awful about the way they treated him right before he died. At least, they better be.

Anarky

03-30-2005, 02:15 PM

DrSpengler

03-30-2005, 02:20 PM

I merged this thread with the other thread we had on this.

Unfortunately I haven't got a chance to get my hand on these comic books. Deliveries to Switzerland just plain out suck.

How many issues of "Countdown" are there going to be?

Just one. It's an 80-page comic that costs but a single $1.

What it DOES is it sparks all these other event titles, like The Rann/Thanagar War and Villains United.

All those will eventually lead up to the Infinite Crisis, what DC's advertising as the sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths (I thought that was supposed to be Zero Hour?).

In other DC comic news this week:

The Rogue War has started in the Flash series. If you aren't reading the Flash I highly highly highly suggest that you do. PLEASE.

And in this week's Batman, it has finally been confirmed that the Red Hood is Jason Todd. And it appears to be the REAL Jason this time, too.

Anarky

03-30-2005, 02:28 PM

You know, getting US-comics is very expensive for me. That 1$-thing will probably cost me about 8$.

And (the Batmanthing)Jason Todd is back???. Can't they just leave someone when dead?

DrSpengler

03-30-2005, 02:33 PM

You know, getting US-comics is very expensive for me. That 1$-thing will probably cost me about 8$.

And (the Batmanthing)Jason Todd is back???. Can't they just leave someone when dead?

Yeah, importing will be expensive, I imagine, but LESS expensive had the thing been priced $5 or what-not.

And in regards to Batman:

Yeah, but they've been hinting at the return of Jason ever since Hush in 03. It's been a pretty long set-up. So far, I think his role as the new Red Hood is pretty cool. He's getting the best of Black Mask (the new crimelord of Gotham) and keeping Batman and Nightwing on their toes. Depending on how this arc ends, it could be one of the best Batman stories in a long time.

Anarky

03-30-2005, 02:40 PM

Of course, it'd be less expensive, but knowing me, I couldn't just stop with the Countdown. I'd need everything... and that's the part where it gets really expensive.

DrSpengler

03-30-2005, 02:43 PM

Of course, it'd be less expensive, but knowing me, I couldn't just stop with the Countdown. I'd need everything... and that's the part where it gets really expensive.

Yeah. So they don't reprint DC comics in Switzerland? I'd just assumed they were released practically everywhere. I know most of the characters are popular world-wide. Guess I was wrong.

Some of the Countdown spin-off books don't really interest me (like the Rann/Thanagar War), so I'll be picking and choosing the titles I want. Villains United looks to be worth the money, though.

Anarky

03-30-2005, 02:45 PM

Well, we do have Paninicomics who print DC-titles, but we're currently at issue 3 of Identity Crisis (oooh, ever so twisted!). So because I am very impatient and almost everywhere I read there's talk about Crisis 2...

What are all the titles called that are inculded in the new crisis? and how many issues are there of every mini?

ZariusTwo

03-30-2005, 02:51 PM

It's amazing how one of the most annoying side kicks in the Batman universe might very well have become of it's better villians in a long time.

Yes, Countdown is now avalible, and we were right about that cover

Blue Beetle is dead, get ready for more deaths of obscure, 90's b-list superheroes and barly anyone significant soon, for Countdown seemed to have been little more than a tribute to the 90's Justice Leauge comic, complete with Maxwell Lord revealing himself as a villain

Anarky

03-30-2005, 03:00 PM

well, they're killing Giffen's characters, which I think is a shame. But hey, from time to time you need to clean up the mess that was made over twenty years. I hope they'll kill off Guy Gardner, that character has been written to death...

DrSpengler

03-30-2005, 05:46 PM

I wish they would, too, but it's not likely. He's just been turned back into a Green Lantern recently, and they've got to exhaust that again before they can put him out of his misery.

At least that Vuldarian Warrior crap is over with.

ZariusTwo

03-30-2005, 05:47 PM

Yeah, Garnder is bound to leave, don't even remind us of his Warrior incarnation...

In another few years, we'll be saying the same thing with yet another "shocking" crossover mini-series that really does accomplish nothing, we have never seen many other major characters die outside of Kara and Barry Allen from the original, and greatest, Crisis. All we are left with in grand "spectacles" like Identity Crisis and Countdown is nothing more than Chicken Feed.

DrSpengler

03-30-2005, 06:02 PM

Yeah, and Kara's already back. I have a feeling they'll leave Barry dead, though. He'd more memorable for dying than he ever was for being alive. He's DC's Jesus.

Identity Crisis and the like may be spectacles, but at least they're well-written. God, the last thing I want is another Zero Hour. It felt like a carbon copy of Crisis on Infinite Earths, complete with the Flash disappearing. In the long-run, all it did was make Batman an urban legend again, turn Hal Jordan even more evil and screw-up Hawkman.

I'm sure DC's learned their lesson and Infinite Crisis shouldn't be another Zero Hour. SHOULDN'T.

A couple other things I liked about Countdown was how "in continuity" it is. If you read other DC titles you get a lot of little Easter eggs. The crate that was stolen from Ted Chord's warehouse was stolen by the Red Hood in a recent issue of Batman, the kryptonite in said-crate came from the remains of the asteroid Kara Zor-El arrived on in Superman/Batman, Dr. Psycho's involvement with the Villains United was hinted at in the recent Wonder Woman/Flash crossover, the human host of Project O.M.A.C. was recently revieled in Superman as that priest guy, etc.

Amazing how much thought went into this book and exactly how long they've been setting everything up. The DC universe feels like an actual UNIVERSE where the events in one character's comic have consequences in another's comic and they all really exist in the same world together.

DC's really been at their best, lately.

Anarky

03-30-2005, 06:31 PM

Good, you've talked me into buying it... I give up. Remind me to hate you :D

So, what do I need to buy?

DrSpengler

03-30-2005, 06:44 PM

You won't hate me once you've read it. ;)

Well, the book, itself, is just titled "Countdown to Infinite Crisis".

The spin-off books are going to be:

Day of Vengeance (4/20): Captain Marvel battles the recently-freed Spectre (read Green Lantern Rebirth for more on that) to save the Earth's magic.

The OMAC Project (4/27): The new One Man Army Corps being controlled by the Checkmate organization (you won't believe who's the leader...or you might already know) goes berserk on the DCU.

Villains United (5/4): A team-up of all the A-list DC villains. Deathstroke-tacular.

The Rann/Thanagar War (5/11): Thanagar finally goes to war with Rann (something Alan Moore was hinting at way back in the 80's!). Adam Strange calls on the Justice League for help.

Those are all miniseries, so they're going to be multiple issues. Probably around 6 issues each. Apparantly each one is going to lead up to Infinite Crisis in some way.

But if you're not interested in/wealthy enough for all that, the book Countdown, by itself, is a great read.

Anarky

04-15-2005, 09:20 AM

Countdown arrived today. God, was that a hassle. I shouldn't do things like this. but, a very good story indeed. Very interesting. I mean Maxwell Lord!!! And they've done a fabulous job with OMAC. Looks cool. I have to read it again tonight. :D

DrSpengler

04-15-2005, 10:36 AM

It's been out for 3 weeks now, so I guess spoilers aren't neccesary anymore.

The JLI are having a ROUGH time lately. Sue dies, Booster gets wrecked, Beetle dies, Max defects...jeez. DC have something against Giffen? ;)

I really liked the idea that Booster, since he's from the future, knew what was going to happen. And that's why he was going to flake out on Beetle, becuase he didn't want to be there when it happened. And that's why he wanted to get out of the hospital so bad, to save his friend.

And I found this ironic panel:

http://img197.exs.cx/img197/8798/jla35pg5xx.jpg

Anarky

04-17-2005, 06:50 AM

I read it again, and I noticed that there's qutie a lot of miniseries I should buy if I want to comprehend the full extent of that crisis. Damn, that's going to be expensive. Is there any info on how much importance they will have for what part of the crisis?

And what tells us that Maxwell just snapped recently? couldn't he have been insane for years, even during his JL-time? I mean, compiling all this intel on the superheroes must take time and method. There is no way he did that just because he thought that it might be useful one day. And isn't it sort of schizo that Maxwell uses a metahuman to kill of the metahumans he hates so much?

DrSpengler

04-23-2005, 09:04 AM

The OMAC Project #1 came out on wednesday.

*SPOILER*

A good follow-up to Countdown. Beetle's corpse has been incinerated, so he ain't coming back. I like how they acknowledged Wonder Woman was the only one beside Booster who believed him. We get to see just what Brother Eye is capable of, and we find out it was created by Batman.

Max is still pure evil. Which is kinda strange, because I Can't Believe It's Not Justice League part 3 came out on Wednesday as well, and that features the goofy Maxwell Lord.

Anyway, OMAC is looking good.

Oh, and the OMAC IV that showed up in Superman: For Tomorrow doesn't seem to have anything to do with the story (at least not yet). For Tomorrow ended this week as well with little to no loose ends tied up. What an awful story.

Leo656

06-16-2005, 05:01 PM

Sorry for a late reply, only got around to reading this now.

Y'know, I thought "For Tomorrow" was pretty bad at first, too, but then I sat down and re-read all 12 issues in one shot and found out that it actually made a lot more sense than I remembered and wasn't too bad overall. A lot of the confusing "loose end" stuff is stuff it looks like they're slowly going to be touching on in the coming months. I didn't know what point Orr and the mysterious gov't agency and the "people-turned-into-monster/weapons" served at all the first time, but now we know the agency was Checkmate, and that they were doing prototype tests of the OMAC project, so all that stuff makes way more sense. It IS however, a pretty confusing read, just b/c of how it was put together, with the first few issues being a recounting of past events and then suddenly jumping into the present with the Metropia stuff. Plus the fact that Azzarello (who on the whole I don't like) tends to make his stories focus much more on what the characters are thinking and feeling, rather than explaining every little detail of the plot, leaves a lot of the cohesion (too much maybe) up to the reader.

Basically, it could have been better but it gets better upon repeated readings. Now Austen's run on Action Comics this past year... THAT was some crap, IMO. That reeked of "Let's throw every Superman villain ever into this story even if they have no plausible reason to be there, just so people will be fooled into thinking I'm writing this great, revolutionary, iconic Superman, when in fact I'm just doing a 12-issue nonsensical fight scene."

DrSpengler

06-16-2005, 08:00 PM

I need to get around to doing that as well. I just haven't found the time. Now that Countdown to Infinite Crisis is alost halfway over, a lot of stuff in that story should make more sense now.

So far the prelude to Infinite Crisis is going pretty well. OMAC has been pretty cool and Rann-Thanagar War looks to be the best of the books. Villains United and Day of Vengeance has been pretty mediocre so far. Disappointing, since Day of Vengeance was the one I anticipated the most.

And, of course, Geoff Johns' JLA arc tying into Infinite Crisis just started. One issue in and already it's awesome. That man is a genius.

Leo656

06-16-2005, 09:09 PM

Heck yeah, Geoff Johns can't do any wrong at this point. You can see where his love and encyclopedic knowledge of DC continuity comes into all his stuff. All his storylines actually use continuity to *enhance* the story, unlike SOME writers (ahem MARK WAID and his crappy "Birthright" mini) who just re-write something from the ground up to suit their story and to hell with continuity.

My only problem with Johns so far: in "Rebirth", Sinestro had his yellow ring, which Hal Jordan/Parallax destroyed in Guy Gardner: Warrior #21. I'm just waiting for an explanation. Any one will do. I know it's nitpicky, but Johns remembers like everything else, y'know?

And definitely try reading "For Tomorrow" again all at once. It's actually one of my more favorable Superman stories in the last couple years (not counting the untouchable excellence of Superman/Batman, of course), but reading it as it came out, with four weeks and three other Superman books in between each part? Yeah, that made it very friggin' confusing. I really liked how Superman's paranoia about what could happen if he didn't do enough to save Earth indirectly caused the Vanishing, and due to that we got to see a little bit of a proactive Supes for a change (even if he was a bit mopey, but one could easily understand that by realizing that in the scenes with Father Leone, Superman has already realized that he was the one to blame for the vanishing and was dealing with his guilt as he prepared to turn the vanishing device on himself). It's a pretty deep story dealing with Superman's insecurities in a reasonable way, once you get past Azzarello's creaky dialog style (he seems to think he's way more clever than he really is, IMO). Worth a second look, at any rate.

DrSpengler

06-16-2005, 09:58 PM

I've never really hated Azzarello. His Batman: Broken City arc was pretty damn good, IMO. A very old fashioned detective story which is something Batman really needed. Once I'm done with my current stack of new stuff I'll sit down and reread For Tomorrow.

Mark Waid does retcon quite a bit. Sometimes it's for the better (Professor Zoom's origin in Return of Barry Allen) and sometimes it's just a bad idea (Birthright, obviously). He's a reall hit-or-miss kind've writer, but when he hits it's usually pretty damn good (his run on the Flash was second best next to Johns and Tower of Babel is one of the better JLA stories outside of Morrison).

Glad you mentioned Sinestro's yellow ring. Apparantly it was powered by Parallax the whole time, so how come Parallax never possessed Guy Gardner when he used it for all those years? That's the one little bit left unexplained that kinda irked me about Rebirth. Otherwise, Rebirth was pretty good (considering what Johns was charged to do, bring Hal back to life, it certainly wasn't as bad as it COULD have been).

And Johns is some kind've super nerd, it's amazing. He almost never creates his own characters. He just reaches back into the bottomless pit of DC heroes and villains and picks some of the most obscure people to fit into his story, and makes them freaken awesome.

Take the Injustice Be Done arc of JSA. I had NO IDEA Jay Garrick had his own "Reverse Flash" from back in the Golden Age. Yet here he is; Rival. The guy had maybe 2 or 3 appearances total and hadn't been seen in a good 40 years and guess what? He was freaken awesome! I combed throught he back issue bins at my shop and dug up every Rival story I could find after reading that. Amazing. And then Johns went and repaired Hawkman's history, a task I thought impossible (especially after that Zero Hour bullsh1t).

Also, if my avatar isn't a hint, Swamp Thing is my favorite comic book character. And it's currently an unspoken rule that Vertigo characters can't be seen in regular DC titles for some silly reason (hence no John Constantine in Day of Vengeance). Yet he goes and throws Daniel (Dream's Successor from Sandman) into the first arc of JSA and, while this may not seem like much, actually MENTIONS Swamp Thing in JLA #115. Just when I was starting to think he'd ben forgotten by the reast of the DCU. Thank you Geoff Johns.

ZariusTwo

06-17-2005, 08:04 AM

The OMAC Project #1 came out on wednesday.

*SPOILER*

A good follow-up to Countdown. Beetle's corpse has been incinerated, so he ain't coming back

Green Arrows' body was blown to peices once. What's your point? :lol:

Brodie

06-17-2005, 07:14 PM

Blue Beetle didn't have the cool hat. Or the cool Van Dyke thing.

BartAllen

11-29-2005, 11:57 AM

Green Arrows' body was blown to peices once. What's your point? :lol:
well. blue beetle isnt coming back as long as didio is in charge. i mean.. levits can try and bring him back, but it isnt going to happen.

Im talking about the Ted Kord Blue Beetle. I do think a new blue beetle will be introduced.

Found the article in which didio said ted wouldnt be back anytime soon.
http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40070

My favorite paragraph of the entire read.

"The crowd got a little contentious at that point, throwing up comments alluding to the “deaths” of Green Arrow, Green Lantern, and others who have since returned to the land of the living. This led Rucka and DiDio into a discussion of the use of death in DC titles, with Rucka saying that characters are never killed capriciously in good stories. In broadening the discussion, DiDio confirmed a fan’s question that Barry Allen would never return to the rolls of active, living heroes in the present day. While the ruling allows for Allen’s appearances in time-travel stories (such as the current Flash arc), DiDio said that with Barry, the Flash has seen a legacy developed, adding that he didn’t think anyone would argue with his assertion that Wally West has proven himself, in the 20 years following the original Crisis on Infinite Earths, to be the Flash much in the same way Barry Allen had for that generation."

another article stating that ted will not be coming back, but instead a new blue beetle character will be introduced.
http://comics.ign.com/articles/665/665335p1.html

Raven

12-13-2005, 08:31 PM

DrSpengler

12-13-2005, 09:57 PM

I've been following it.

Not sure what to think. Earth-2 Superman as the lead villain? Or is he just a red herring before the real villain shows up? Either way, that was a plot-twist I didn't see coming. I probably should've, though. DC has been gradually regressing back to the Silver Age status-quo for years now.

So far the Crisis mini has been a little underwhelming. #1 has some spectacular bits, but was mostly just a set-up. #2 was a recap of DC's history for the new-comers. Hopefully things will start to pick up next issue and we'll get a clearer look at the plot.

Raven

12-14-2005, 07:01 PM

Superman is merely just one of the problems thats coming, we still have the two luthers, and in next issue Batman has a chance at the life he's always wanted...I cant wait!

BartAllen

12-16-2005, 07:12 AM

Man.. after reading teen titans 30. Im really interested in the revolving door of death...

SPOILERS!!!!

it looks like the return of superman back in 93 some how cracked the life and death boundry.. it seems someone took that crack and ripped it WIDE open. thats why green arrow and all the others have been able to come back. because of that crack.

and when asked how they could fix this huge problem they all looked troubled like they already knew the anwser to the question....

THEORY TIME.

Superman is going to have to die again to seal this crack (luckily, right now we have three clark kents.)... which.. sort of makes lois being sick that much more interesting.
hmm. you know. for the longest time i could totally predict everything that DC did.. lately. im usually way off. Which i think is a great turn for DC.

and another thing. I dont think infinite crisis is going to tie everything up. i think infinite crisis is going to be a lead in to stuff, or a definite beginning of things to come.

Yes, yes zarious, i know somthing similar has already been said in some interviews.. no need to come in and try to verbally rape me.

Dr. Doom

12-19-2005, 03:25 AM

Ok, so like......can I sorta get some like updtaes on what's going on with this whole mini series? It started sooner than I realized...I probably would have been reading it otherwise (And it'd bug the crap outta me to just pick it up in the middle....I guess I need all or nothing). This whole thing is being hyped up as like all earth shattering and everything and I just wanna make sure I know what's going on.

There's a few people I'm kinda worried they may kill off, too. o_o;;

So if someone wants to clue me in on everything, I'd appreciate it.

BartAllen

12-19-2005, 10:08 AM

Dr. Doom

12-19-2005, 05:07 PM

I figured the first 2 would be kinda hard to find, given all the hype around this.

BartAllen

12-29-2005, 04:57 AM

I figured the first 2 would be kinda hard to find, given all the hype around this.
oh. my local store still has the first two issues.

DrSpengler

01-18-2006, 07:30 PM

#4 is out! And it's awesome!

Well, a lot happened in this issue. They recycled Barry's "apparations" from Crisis on Infinite Earths, but at least they didn't kill Wally off. However, it looks like the Speed Force has been destroyed. So no more powers for Wally and the rest? And how'd Max Mercury get his body back anyway?

Superboy going berserk was awesome. Now, I felt sorry for Superboy-Prime. He was being manipulated from the very beginning and really thought he was doing the right thing. I really felt sorry for him when he started stuttering and Conner started making fun of him. Jeez, that didn't help. And then he didn't really MEAN to kill all those 7th tier Titans. It was an accident. Then when Krypto bit him and he started blubbering...jeez, poor kid.

Too bad he only killed 7th tier characters like Wildebeast and Joto. And we finally got some answers as to how Eclipso's gem wound-up in Jean Lorring's cell, who reprogrammed Brother I and who was moving planets around all over the place. Good stuff.

And the ending is a pretty good cliff-hanger. Earth-2's back? Sweet.

Raph's Girl

01-18-2006, 08:10 PM

IC 4 is definatly the best one yet! It answered alot of questions about all that had been going on. :o

BartAllen

01-19-2006, 03:06 PM

IC 4 is definatly the best one yet! It answered alot of questions about all that had been going on. :oIt did indeed anwser those questions. to bad some of them sucked.
I hate that the only reason oa isnt in the center of the universe anymore is cause prime pushed the planet.

ZariusTwo

01-19-2006, 06:30 PM

Wally is depowered?

F*ck this, the only upswing was it gave us closure on how Jean got her powers, and gave us a blubbering maniacal Superboy

Dr. Doom

01-20-2006, 10:44 AM

What the ****?!

BartAllen

01-20-2006, 11:52 AM

What the ****?!whats wrong?

Dr. Doom

01-20-2006, 12:45 PM

They recycled Barry's "apparations" from Crisis on Infinite Earths, but at least they didn't kill Wally off. However, it looks like the Speed Force has been destroyed. So no more powers for Wally and the rest?

That's what's wrong. And you of all people should be able to relate to my concern of this news.

BartAllen

01-20-2006, 03:12 PM

That's what's wrong. And you of all people should be able to relate to my concern of this news.
its not permenant. atleast. i hope it isnt. i will say that, that scene almost had me in tears. wally was the first superhero i ever really liked. so seeing that happen freaked me out.

ZariusTwo

01-20-2006, 05:01 PM

The Infinte Crisis figures are spoiling things rather shamelessly

(yes, theres' figures, for the uninformed)

Superboy Prime WILL be back, and donning a kickass black S-Symbol and parts of the Anti-Monitors' armour

Raven

01-28-2006, 05:33 PM

Anarky

01-28-2006, 05:59 PM

Maybe he isn't coming back, but it's just some last resort-thing (wearing the armor, I mean) before getting killed off.

BartAllen

02-03-2006, 04:21 AM

Maybe he isn't coming back, but it's just some last resort-thing (wearing the armor, I mean) before getting killed off.
I think the body will return, but with the essence of someone else.

ZariusTwo

03-11-2006, 07:03 AM

Superboys' made his comeback using the Anti-Monitors' armour, Barry Allen has returned from the void the other Flashes hurtled Superboy into to warn the heroes in time. GA Superman and MA Superman had a decent little brawl after GA LOis was breifly restored to health, but died minutes later. Alex is now desperate to create a "one true universe" and that only Superman is capable of providing it

Whilst I'm generally loving this for its' train wreck quality, its' dang good in terms of action.

Anarky

03-11-2006, 07:11 AM

So it's not just me who thinks that this is way too confusing and stupid?

Dr. Doom

03-11-2006, 09:04 AM

I do...but then again, I didn't read it. I guess it must be bad if you feel the same way I do.

Leo656

03-25-2006, 06:21 PM

Nothing about it confuses me, but then I've read way too many DC books in my lifetime and have been reading almost all the Infinite Crisis-related books since Countdown came out. Plus my girlfriend and I are in the midst of reading the entire saga as one long story (starting with Identity Crisis and weaving through Countdown, Superman, Batman, Teen Titans, JLA, the four pre-Crisis minis, Wonder Woman, Nightwing, some other books and finally Infinite Crisis itself in as close to some semblance of "event order" as possible), so I guess it's no shock that it makes perfect sense to ME.

For my own future reading sanity (plus the fact that one of my friends wants to borrow the main parts of the story once it's finished), I'm trying to compile a list of how to read some of the stuff "in order" so the events fit together better (like reading "Sacrifice" in Superman/Wonder Woman before reading issue #4 of OMAC Project, or Teen Titans Secret Files between issues #4 and 5 of Infinite Crisis, etc). When it's done I can post it here if people think it'll help.

As for what I think, well, I read about 30 books a month right now (not all DC but mostly), so they must be doing something I like, heh.

Raven

04-03-2006, 10:23 PM

again Im loving this book, its just outragous on how good it is.

Another note has any one picked up some of the year one tales?
So far I have picked up Catwoman-Terrific, I cant wait to see how this new direction will take the character and how it will effect Batman.

Superman-Pete Woods best art, I loved his stuff in detective but this just blew me away. The man has reached a new feet in his work. Oh and the story is alright, reminded me to much of Superman 2 the movie.

And for Batman-Wow, how refreshing after that awful Winnhik run (still trying to get that bad taste out of my mouth) I didnt mind the plot it fit with what was all going on but horribly done.
Sorry going off on a bunny trail, so this new issue was pretty good. Didnt say or give away a hole lot but refreshing.

Brodie

04-04-2006, 08:26 AM

The horrible Winnik run? Yes, it was god awful in comparison to the writing which occurs in the Kings Of Pain comics.

Dr. Doom

04-04-2006, 11:49 AM

In regards to The Flash...

What's the deal with this "new" Flash that came out of the Speed Force? I sure as hell hope it's not Barry Allen. I want Wally back!

Anarky

04-04-2006, 11:54 AM

In regards to The Flash...

What's the deal with this "new" Flash that came out of the Speed Force? I sure as hell hope it's not Barry Allen. I want Wally back!When did that happen?

Dr. Doom

04-04-2006, 09:03 PM

You tell me. I read it on Wikipedia.

Raven

04-04-2006, 10:06 PM

The horrible Winnik run? Yes, it was god awful in comparison to the writing which occurs in the Kings Of Pain comics.

You know thats really uncalled for, why are you being such a ass? Grow up, act your age.

Comments like that are not needed and show how mature you are, I dont know what your problem is but stop.

Dr. Doom

04-05-2006, 07:12 AM

Wait.....isn't that a compliment? ....Sorta?

Raven

04-05-2006, 02:28 PM

I dont know....I was already in a bad mood when I read it, it sounded different then, more like sarcasm....so use to people making comments like that.

DrSpengler

04-05-2006, 04:30 PM

Infinite Crisis #6 ws another excellent installment. I think my favorite bit was the Swamp Thing cameo!!! Well, a cameo from his left arm, anyway.

Too bad the OMAC Project special was boring as hell and totally predictable.

ZariusTwo

04-06-2006, 08:05 PM

Ha, just read the current issue, once more, this is a total train wreck of a story, so bad it's good

Superboy Prime killing Conner was gratifying for me, I don't beleive that character resembled anything like the classic 1990's version and that the writers had changed him too much, an unfortunate effect of the dark DC storylines that prompted the lighter approach following IC, looks like his death is a metaphore for the ending of such character brutality. If he comes back, as I've heard rumours of, it'll be as a different superhero

Anarky

04-07-2006, 05:52 AM

Hah, it starts to make sense. Issue #6 starts putting pieces together. And the OMAC-Special and Blue Beetle #1 make sense as well. Hooray!

I do have serious doubts that Conner's dead for long. Same with Bart. I mean, they killed off half the Titans, so it's pretty obvious that they aren't gone forever and will either appear in the next issue, 52 or some Deus Ex Machina moment.

Dr. Doom

04-07-2006, 07:53 AM

I'm not terribly happy with what's left of the Titans.... But I suppose that's in large part because I got into them via the show. Removing Starfire, Raven and Beast Boy from the picture doesn't settle well with me. Or Bart, for that matter. I really hope Starfire is ok (she's the only one who' actually in danger, from what I read... she never came back from space. Gar joined Doom Patrol and Raven just kinda went off to be Emo after they broke up). I was starting to like Conner, too....but if he died fighting Prime off of Dick, then I'm more than happy for that exchange. I'm glad Cyborg's ok, as well.

DrSpengler

04-07-2006, 12:46 PM

I never liked Conner, honestly. They say first impressions are the most important, and my first impression of that little dumbass was when he wouldn't let people call him "Superboy" and played the airguitar like a retard. Then his massive ego never seemed to cool off until Geoff Johns got ahold of him, and even then, he just turned into a whimpering emo crybaby for what felt like forever. Now he's dead. I can't say I care.

There were a few things about Conner I liked. His best-buddy relationship with Robin was a nice contrast to Batman and Superman's tenuous relationship, and the concept of "If Superman and Lex Luthor had a baby it would be this guy" was alright. But not enough to make me mourn the character's passing. At all.

Dr. Doom

04-07-2006, 02:56 PM

Who else wants to see that love scene?

Anarky

04-07-2006, 03:06 PM

Who else wants to see that love scene?I'm perfectly happy with Superboy/Wonder Girl. But everyone has his/her fetishes. :D

ZariusTwo

04-07-2006, 03:28 PM

Damn, can't Raven lighten up? One Year Later will be another by the numbers "you're too dark honey, this won't work" shitic, I doubt the two are finished entirly, but would it hurt for Raven to stop being the emo representive of the team? She reminds me of my wife the first three times we were involved

ZariusTwo

05-03-2006, 11:41 PM

The Joker killed Alex. Ouch

DrSpengler

05-04-2006, 11:05 AM

I thought #7 was a good ending and a fine follow-up to both #6 and Villains United Special.

The very ending, with Superboy Prime imprisoned was excellent. Not as good as the Psycho Pirate ending from the original Crisis, but that one's hard to top.

I'm glad Superboy Prime will be sticking around, he'll make an awesome all-powerful villain. Well, that is, if they don't take 20 years to do something signifigant with him, like they did with the Psycho Pirate.

Anarky

05-04-2006, 11:42 AM

Okay, so that was it. I think the stuff with Batman, Robin and Nightwing wandering off is a pretty good idea. Supes depowered? Meh... he'll be back, he'll just have to wait a while. Wonder Woman... don't care much about her anyways. But the Conner-thing sucked, as well as the Bart-thing. Sure, Kid Flash went nowhere (blame Johns for that instant-education thing in TT #3 or #4). And why Wally? And how will they bring the Speedsters back (a DCU without Flash? Com off it...).

All in all, Crisis was a big mindf*** and it was very confusing for a big part. But hey, we'll see what happens next.