What turtles have the best relationships? [Archive]

Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan

11-28-2002, 03:11 PM

Oooh, this is a good one. You could make valid arguments for any two-Turtle combination.

If this question were about the movies, yes, I'd have to say that Michaelangelo and Donatello have the best relationship. But for the cartoon, this one is too close to call.

Every time I think of a winning combo, another one pops into my head that seems just as good, if not better.

Donatello-Leonardo?
Michaelangelo-Raphael?
Donatello-Michaelangelo?
Leonardo-Raphael?
Donatello-Raphael?
Leonardo-Michaelangelo?

AAARRRGGGHHH! This isn't a fair question. :goof:

"We've never really done well on quickie quizzes."
"I have a feeling we're all gonna be losers on this test!"

Donatello and Raphael, from "What's Michaelangelo Good For?"

Karpo_007

11-28-2002, 03:18 PM

Hard question really, The plots aren't that deep so that you could make an opinnion. Depends on the writer I guess.

Joos_Valgaeren

11-29-2002, 01:03 AM

yeah, it was hard to answer that one because there wasn't really an episode were the turtles had a major fall out and aftermath analysis after it or anything.

Turtle X

11-29-2002, 06:29 PM

They all are fairly Nice to eachother, except when ralph gets his temper to hott, But TMNTmz87 is right about don and mike in the movie's. They have to be nice to eachother becuase missing one turtle tears the whole thing up.

Keno

11-29-2002, 06:36 PM

they are ALL best friends!!!! they fight sometimes but they're a team and deep down they all have great relations!

yea i love the relationship between Don and Mikey in the movies..especially the second one they seem so close and funny.
i think that although Raphael and Leonardo fight alot, its cool to see them as best friends because they are so similar

MzTheInsomniac

11-29-2002, 08:43 PM

of course they all have great relations, but the question was, who has the best

Ratking

11-30-2002, 04:56 AM

dam that is a good question. Cartoon wise i would say hmmm, well, um......?

MzTheInsomniac

11-30-2002, 08:40 AM

of course you wouldn't know cartoonwise, they never go into how the turtles got along, it was always, o no shredder we are the only hope the world has, that and than raph has some sarcastic remark

Turtle X

11-30-2002, 12:40 PM

You have a point, well my final pick would be donny and mike.

heretic888

11-30-2002, 12:41 PM

in the 'true tmnt', the mirage comics that is, the only turtles ever described as 'best friends' are Mike and Raph. none of the others seem to have anything else like that.

Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan

11-30-2002, 04:06 PM

Sparvid

11-30-2002, 06:43 PM

Are the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man the true Spidey, since much more people around the world saw the move than read the comics?

Kali

11-30-2002, 07:09 PM

Perhaps it would be better to say "original TMNT" when referring to Mirage. After all, truth is relative.

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 06:03 AM

in the 'true tmnt', the mirage comics that is, the only turtles ever described as 'best friends' are Mike and Raph. none of the others seem to have anything else like that.

What do you mean the Mirage comics represent the "true TMNT"? Sure, the comics came along first, but it wasn't until the cartoon came along that the Turtles became a worldwide hit.

I would say the cartoon was the "true TMNT," if only for the fact that it was most responsible for the Turtles' success.

"Uh, boys, can we argue about this later?" - Raphael, from "The Big Cufflink Caper!"

It is original and it is the only True TMNT universe. The cartoon was produced by playmates to sell toys. Mirage comics on the other hand can be considered as a form of art. It has well written plot line and real characters. Of course not all issues are so good but most are.

Yeah it was the cartoon which made the TMNT pokemon of it's time, but that can't be really considered a good thing. Because of that, majority of people think that TMNT was only a childrens cartoon and toy line. No matter if it made more money than the comics, in real art it isn't about wich had the highest sells.

You can like cartoon better if you want, still Mirage is the True form of TMNT. The cartoon just kiddiefied the concept to fit saturday morning. And believe it or not, the cartoon was made for selling toys.

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 06:25 AM

Are the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man the true Spidey, since much more people around the world saw the move than read the comics?

Very good point.

Shellfox

12-01-2002, 08:23 AM

Can we not get into the whole True univers argument, everyone has diffent opioins and we should respect them, Mirage has both good and bad points and some need to except that other people like other versions.

That being said I've always seen Raph and Don as rather close. In the archie series their future versions seemed rather close (Ok they were the only one around at the point they were introduced but after word they were the ones we always saw together.) For the most in the serise as a whole they seemed to work best together just diffenet enogh to be perfect together. And we see this again in Next Mutation, a lot of the later eps seem to focus on Raph and Don as a team

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 08:27 AM

The truth is that Mirage is the Original and the True TMNT universe. Of course everyone can have their own opinnions. If you like cartoon better im fine with it.

Shellfox

12-01-2002, 08:44 AM

How can you say their a True TMNT? That like saying theres a True X-Men or a True JLA. The TMNT are an ever evolving force, that changes and shifts with the time and the medium they are presented in. Yes teh Mirage may be the original but that doesn't make them any more True than the Image or Next Mutation it just makes them diffrent, for some better for some worse.

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 09:30 AM

... In case you didn't know, Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman created the TMNT. Thats why I can say that Mirage is the true TMNT universe. The cartoon is just a toy commercial based on the License Mirage sold them. Next Mutation was just stupid Power Rangers rip off. Image was an unofficial TMNT universe and Archie based on the cartoon. You can like those if you want, but the Only true TMNT comes from Mirage.

What is better is matter of opinion but the true universe is the original one.

heretic888

12-01-2002, 09:55 AM

actually, what is 'better' in art is NOT a matter of opinion; it is a matter of direct personal experience of depth, not your ideas of what 'good' is. translation: 'quality' in art is subjective, but not relative. think about it.

as for the 'true tmnt' bit, yeah it IS mirage. why? well, that IS the version Eastman and Laird created and the only version they have extensively worked on through and through thus far. It is also the only version of the characters that truly conveys the essence of the characters' archetypes and accurately conveys the themes and 'feeling' of the series. archie was close, and image kinda crapped around..... but only mirage did it fully (at least when eastman and/or laird were writing the stories). the cartoon and next mutation, while entertaining to some, did not have any of this in the slightest degree.

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 10:02 AM

Maybe the cartoon can't be said to be better art but some people still say they like it better. But those people have probably never read any Mirage comics. If you have read the first issue from official page, it doesn't count. And yeah best of Mirage is Eastman's and Laird's stories, but there are other great ones. Like Lawsson who wrote few in the Tales series and Volume 2. Actually there are not many bad writers. Only ones I can think of are Rich Hedden & Tom McWeeney. They did parody on TMNT.

Shellfox

12-01-2002, 11:29 AM

So your saying that if Laird and Eastman could some how get back together and do the comic they would be the real TMNT?

The TMNT are mearly an idea now it doesn't matter who does them even their creators they are going to be spun according to those working on them, but they will still be the TMNT. You can't say their is a True TMNT any more than you can say there is a True X-Men it can't be done. Yes Mirage many be how they were first invisioned and I'm not debating that, and yes you do know far more than I do, but I don't see how anyone can make the state ment of a True TMNT.

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 11:32 AM

All that needs to be said on this is already said. Read the posts. If Eastman chooses to do TMNT again it will still be under Mirages name.

Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan

12-01-2002, 11:38 AM

I guess what people consider to be the "true TMNT" is different for everyone, which isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

My only argument in stating that the cartoon is "true TMNT" is that it ushered in most of the fans. Note how I didn't say all, but that I did say most. Whenever I bring up the Ninja Turtles - it doesn't matter where I am, or who I'm with - the first thing people say (if they know what I'm taking about) is, "Oh, yeah, I remember that show! I used to watch it all the time!" Most people remember the Turtles for the cartoon, not the movies or the comics.

What I'm saying is that the cartoon was most responsible for people being fans. And after people were exposed to the cartoon, many of them searched out other avenues of TMNT entertainment, such as the comics. Many people on this very board have stated that they watched the cartoon first, then became bigger fans of the comic books later.

Are the Mirage comics the "true TMNT"? I guess it all depends on your perspective. But I would make a really good argument in saying that the cartoon was the "true TMNT" since it ushered in so many fans.

But, again, it all depends upon what you were exposed to first. And what you like better - the darkness of the comics, or the lightheartedness of the cartoon.

"My tummy's startin' to *hickup!* hoit!" - Rocksteady, from "The Big Cufflink Caper!"

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 11:52 AM

Yes I started with the cartoon too. But unfortunately it seems I have overgrown it. But the original is alwasy the true one. Sparvid made a good example before. I can make another. Lord of The rings. THe Move was a huge box office hit. It is a fact that now more people have seen "Fellowship of the ring" than read the book. Still I can safely say the Book is the true universe.

And probably, if i never had watched the cartoon, I wouldnt have been intrested in the Comics. But still the Comic is the one that came first, it's the one that is only "true" universe. It is not amatter wich you like best. It's the matter what was created first.

And it is not a good thing, that People think TMNT as the Pokemon of the 80's. It can really limit the possibilities of the Future TMNT projects. But TMNT can be popular in it's darker form too. The first movie proved that but then came the parents.

Shellfox

12-01-2002, 12:08 PM

I see your point and I bow to you wisdom but still say you can't call the first anything the True version. Look at Batman and the X-Men, they continue to evolve and reinvent them selvs for the times, just as the TMNT are doing. and you can't say todays are any less true than the first versions of them, they are merly diffrent and as long as they keep the core ideas about them them are all true

Disagree with me if you want but this is more a matter of opininon than fact you know more than me but my beliefe has merit just as yours does

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 12:49 PM

Well The cartoon is not evolving. It was just version of TMNT suitable for children. And archie did a better job in that. So you are saying that you Can't say that JRR Tolkien's books aren't true? That movie is just evolving version? It's matter of opinnion wich you like better movie or the book, But the book is the true universe. Of course This is matter of what everyone considers to be "true". Mirage is true because it's original. Of course you could say that Bob Kanes' Batman is true too. Batman TAs just brought it to present day as for TMNT cartoon just kiddiefied the conssept to suit Children.

heretic888

12-01-2002, 12:56 PM

just because two different people's opinions both have merit, does not mean one is not more right than another.

the fact is the mirage tmnt series is the ONLY tmnt medium to express the essence, feeling, and themes of the series. none of the others do that. THAT is what makes the tmnt the tmnt. the 'essence' and 'feel' of the archetypes. the first movie is sorta close and archie tries... but only the mirage series pulls it off.

Deepflame

12-01-2002, 02:07 PM

My opinion: Mirage is the true universe, It's the first and thus also the true one.
But if you just pick someone of the street and ask him about the Turtles he'll probably refer to the cartoon or the archie series (which is much better, never really liked the cartoon. Aww, "Return of the shredder" was good though, happy?), this is because these two are more famous than the Mirage series.
So, popularity decides general. The random person talks about the cartoon because it's the only one he knows about. In general, as stated, the refering should be made from fame.
But if we go on to academic, more advanced levels? That's we're the first and 'true' is the subject. If more advanced profiles and displayings of feelings exist in the 'true' form does not matter, only if it's the first.

I prefer to view the Turtles in my own 'lil universe, adding the elements of each which I like the most, additionaly we all have our own ideas.

I hope these opinions come clear.
To short it, Mirage is the true universe, in general we're talking Archie or much more likely the cartoon, advanced: Mirage, 'Tis the first and original.

Most important of all, dont let others decide what you think. If you have an idea, let no one and everyone hear it.

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 02:31 PM

True it is the cartoon that brought TMNT to the masses. But thats not entirely a good thing. Majority thinks that TMNT is just a Childrens cartoon, But there are many people that know the orginal TMNT as well. The good sells of the new Volume proves that.

Deepflame

12-01-2002, 02:46 PM

Never said it was a good thing.
And much of the new Mirage comic selling good might just be because of the cartoons attraction to the younger ones, those kids are older and more mature today. I'm one of them. They may want something more... grown-up, so to speak.
But still, the general speaks about the cartoon. It's unlucky that the TMNT are being seen as kid-stuff, as we all know, it isn't...

Karpo_007

12-01-2002, 03:06 PM

I know. I started with the show too, but recently bought all the old TMNT comics and am now buing the new one. I know that the old cartoon is good for kids, but Mirage is much better for older people.

Deepflame

12-01-2002, 03:08 PM

Indeed

FreshRazz

12-01-2002, 04:35 PM

They are brothers. So atone stage or anther they will often form different bonds, but really they all work well together!

catter

12-01-2002, 06:11 PM

though they fight a lot i would have to say leo and raph

heretic888

12-01-2002, 10:53 PM

like i said, in the true tmnt universer, the only turtles shown to have a deeper bond than the others is mike and raph.

Krang

12-02-2002, 04:20 AM

The cartoon was produced by playmates to sell toys.Just curious, where are you getting that information? From what I've heard, Playmates only funded the first five episodes and had nothing to do with the production of the show, which was done by MWS.

Also, I'm not going to comment about the "true TMNT" debate, but I do want to say that everyone here should feel welcome to share their opinions, not just Mirage fans. I don't want to have to split GTMNTD into separate forums for each universe, so please, everyone, try to get along by respecting other people's opinions and not stating your opinions as facts.

Sparvid

12-02-2002, 06:45 AM

About other "true universes":

X-Men: The comics are true. The 90s cartoon is mostly stories directly taken from the comics, and sometimes changed for the kids. The movie is basically "based" on the comics (I mean, a good looking Logan who is just as tall as Scott..?). X-Men Evolution is someone taking the characters in the comics and putting them in a fresh, new, and very interesting world, with great stories and animation. But the comic characters is the same people they've been since their creation.

JLA: This one is a little bit tougher. Some people would say the pre-Crisis JLA, with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. Some would say the post-Crisis, with Black Canary. And I'm guessing some would say the "big seven" with Flash, Green Lantern, Superman and so on... However all of them are still basically the same characters. Edit: Except for Barry Allen and Hal Jordan that is... :oops:

In the Batman TAS they have basically taken the essential in Batman's character and created a great universe around it. I Am The Night, and Mad Love is some of the best Batman stories I've ever read/seen.

The question is what people considers essential to the characters. With the TMNT cartoon the similarities between the cartoon Turtles and the Mirage Turtles are the big things, and almost only those. For example, Mike is a *shudder* party dude! (Nothing about how he fights almost as much as Raph)

Karpo_007

12-02-2002, 07:27 AM

The cartoon was produced by playmates to sell toys.Just curious, where are you getting that information? From what I've heard, Playmates only funded the first five episodes and had nothing to do with the production of the show, which was done by MWS.

Actually im not sure wheter or not they prouced the others, but since the show had so many new vehicles, almost in every other episode, and there were toys of those vehicles I tought that it would have produced the rest as well. What other reason could there have been to pu so much new vehicles?

So im not sure about that, but i don't think anyone can prove it wrong.

FreshRazz

12-02-2002, 07:39 AM

Toy company's are too intellegent to make a show edit their script, if they are running out of things to make they make Sumo Turtles (I didn't belive it myself)

heretic888

12-02-2002, 09:28 AM

there is a big difference between opinions about which tmnt 'universe' you may or may not like best for whatever reasons.... and directly experiencing depth in the 'true' tmnt universe.

themaxonline

12-07-2002, 01:10 PM

In the Red Sky episodes, (season 8, so far), it seems like Leonardo and Michaelangelo have the best relationship as they're the ones teaming up. Mike always seemed like a loner though.

HorseTechie

12-07-2002, 02:33 PM

Hrrmmm yes, I didn't realize the cartoon TMNT had much favoritism among each other because of the stereotypical bortherly nature they had. Raph just teased on everyone else, Mikey treated them to pizza, Don gave them fun inventions, and Leo kept them in line.

It wasn't till I saw the first movie that I relized how much more developed their relationships are with each other. And that the Mike and Don pair was really cool (where as Leo and Raph tended to stand alone).

The movie reviews led me tot eh comics, and it was their I learned that Mike and Raph were the closer friends. Yeah... that really messed me up for a bit, since I loved the Movie portrayal so much. Not I just like both comic and movie versions. It makes sense in a way.

Mike is the type who loves all his brotherlys dearly. He'll be affectionate to them, if they return the favor. The Mirage Raph responded most to Mike's quirks and empathy the most, since Mike is not so critical like Leo or annoyingly-logical like Don. I like to say Mike is the cooling balnce to Raph's hot temper.

But the movie Mike-Don pair makes sense too. Mike may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he seems to know how to make Don feel like he's not being unappreciated for the ideas he has. Like mike is the kid who goes "Oh woooow, can I play with it?!" when Don makes up a vidoe game or cool gadget. Where as Raph and Leo would be like, "Eh, that's... great, Donny. And *why* do we need somehting like that again?"

On the ohter hand, if Raph and Mike tend to hang out a lot.. then it is possibler for Don and Leo to develop more of an understanding for each other. Kinda like a couple of CEO's having lunch together and swapping business strategies. :P

azure turtle

12-09-2002, 01:34 AM

I agree, HT. I really liked the Don/Mike friendship in the first movie. Heh... I especially enjoyed the scene where they retreated to the kitchen as Leo and Raph started arguing. :D

Rooish

12-25-2006, 11:57 AM

My favourite pairs are Raphael-Michelangelo and Leonardo-Donatello. Mike brings out Raph's fun side, which I think he needs (although in the new toon, I think they are a little meaner to each other than in other versions). And Leo and Don are just awesome together--their strategies and skills make for one unstoppable battle pair.

Edit: I'm going to elaborate a little after thinking on the matter further. I, too, noticed the favouritism that Raph and Mike showed each other in the Mirage comics. Even in Volume 4, Raph is always talking about Mikey in an affectionately insulting way, even if he's not there. In the current cartoon, the primary pairs seem to be Leo-Raph and Don-Mike. Although I love Leo's and Raph's relationship (it is so intense and love-hate), I don't think Don and Mikey are very good for each other. Sure, they were hilarious together in the first movie, but that movie didn't, I felt, portray Don very well. It wasn't how I see him, anyway. Mikey's obnoxious humour and teasing in the new cartoon hold Donatello back somewhat from his true potential in the team; he always has to look after Mikey. Leo is better for Mikey and more able to keep him in line; also Mikey can lighten Leo up.

Don and Raph's relationship might be interesting, but it is not very well explored. They are polar opposites, and yet both share a sort of "middle child" syndrome of not receiving enough attention. I think that is the only reason they would form any sort of alliance; otherwise they are too different. In the old 'toon, when they were the two "smart" guys, they were great together, though. But I still stick with my belief that Mikey and Raph are one "best" pair and Leo and Don are the other.

Sage Ninja

12-26-2006, 01:08 PM

I didn't get to really read through this thread even though it sounds interesting, but off the the top of my head I like:

Classic 1987 toon:

Raphael+Michaelangelo

Leonardo+Donatello

but I did like when they shook things up and had Leonardo and Michaelangelo and Dontello and Raphael together.

New 2003 toon:

Leo+Mikey

Raph+Don

or Mikey and Raph and Donatello abnd Leo. I don't know why but I really don't care for Don and Mikey pairing in the new toon. Leo and Raphael is good but some how I just not feeling it when it is Donatello and Michelangelo. I don't know why but they both seem so relaxed in personality that they...are boring. Whcih isn't the case with Raphael and Don because for reason they just work so cool together. I dunno. :)

Rooish

12-26-2006, 04:41 PM

I definitely agree. I mean, Donny and Mikey obviously get along, but they just aren't extremely fun to watch together (except in the movies).

Sage Ninja

12-27-2006, 05:36 PM

in the mirage universe it seems that alot of the fans have described Raphael and Michaelangelo as being best friends and seem to be in accord with one another. I find that interesting since, (even though they obviously love each other) they tend to be at each other thoats quite a bit in the new toon. ANd don't really give off that best friend, er...vibe.

And I thought that in the classic toon the relationships between the turtles fit because the stuck with their personality type. Leonardo and Donatello are the more serious and dillegent so naturally hang out with each other. And raphael and Michaelangelo hang out and get along because they are more fun loveing and laid back.

Rooish

12-27-2006, 06:47 PM

No one else wants to converse about this, eh?

Yeah, it's a shame that, in the new toon, Mikey and Raph don't get along (although they seem to have their moments, and Raph is very protective of Mikey in a bunch of episodes--Bishop's Gambit, Hunted, Return of Savanti Pt. 1, etc.) But then, in the new toon Mikey's pretty annoying. If I didn't love him in all previous versions, he probably wouldn't be my fav turtle in the new cartoon.

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 06:51 PM

Rooish

12-27-2006, 07:07 PM

Ahhh... the age-old fight of "opposites attract" vs. "birds of a feather flock together."

Definitely people with different personalities have more intense, emotional relationships. But in terms of long-term staying power, I've read that you're likely to do best with someone more like you, as a friend or otherwise.

Anyway, sorry for starting up this thread again, but it's an interesting topic to me.

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 08:45 PM

Dont be sorry. You might have asked a question someone else was curious about too, just didn't know how to word it right.

My favorite friendship is the Leo and Raph one. They have their quarrels, but it's funny how when one goes down, the other is right there to back him up perfectly.

The best, I think is the movie versions of Mikey and Donnie. They showed a hint of that in the previews, so I hope they keep that funny friendship up.

Rooish

12-27-2006, 09:07 PM

Yeah, it looks to me as though the movie will focus very much on the Leo-Raph relationship and the Don-Mike relationship, as the previous movies, and the new cartoon, do. (That was a spoiler based on the upcoming movie pics).

I personally prefer the pairs that occurred more often in the comics and the old cartoon (Mike-Raph and Leo-Don), but you can't have a Turtle story that doesn't focus on Leo and Raph's conflict! I wouldn't have it any other way. ;) And Mikey and Don are funny together.

Hey, Warhorse, this is gonna sound like a dumb question, but how did you get a movie image in your signature? Can I download an image to my computer and attach it, or do I have to link to it somehow? (Heh, newbies. Well, I'm not a new fan, anyway.)

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 09:23 PM

When I was looking at the pics on the site, I pushed the left button on my mouse, and there is a part that says save picture. I clicked it and used my paint software to downsize the image.

I then uploaded the link to my photobucket account and copied and pasted the part to my signature.

I hope this helps.

Now I am just trying to figure out how to get the images KB smaller than 29kb for an avatar, but I dont know how to do that.:ohwell:

Roseangelo

12-27-2006, 09:58 PM

What pic do you want an avatar of? I'm bored enough & willing to play with these pretty pictures...

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 10:08 PM

Oooh, uh, give me a sec, don't go away on me!

Ok, I'm back.

This one. I got it as an avatar on another web site, but this one is being a jerk on me.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/Warhorse_1978/newraoh.jpg

And this is the link to the whole pic if you need it.

http://www.kino-govno.com/images.php?id=teenagemutantninjaturtles&img=60

Roseangelo

12-27-2006, 10:17 PM

Ok, see if this one works for you...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/newraoh1.jpg

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 10:36 PM

Ok, see if this one works for you...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/newraoh1.jpg

Thank you so much. You are a Goddess! I love it!

Roseangelo

12-27-2006, 10:39 PM

Actually, try this one...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/newraoh.jpg

The other got slightly compressed when you uploaded it for your avatar. This one shouldn't.

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 11:05 PM

Ok, I changed it to the newer one. You see a difference?

Roseangelo

12-27-2006, 11:07 PM

Yes! Looks great!

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 11:15 PM

Thanks!

I felt like a kid in a candy store on that new pic site. It's like, which one do i want to use for an avatar and signature. So hard to decide. I'm really glad someone put the link up of those pics, they are really great.

Sage Ninja

01-03-2007, 02:23 PM

which turtles pairing do you think gives the turtles the best enviroment to improve in?

For example: I think when Raphael is teamed up with Donatello that his influence enables Dontello to be more aggressive and out spoken.

And when Michelangelo teams up with Leonardo his influence enables Leo to be more relaxed and easy going.

Time Mistress

01-12-2007, 08:53 PM

I like seeing all their relationships. I can't get enough of the "more used" ones and can't get enough of the ones they should show more off too. My personal fave though would be Mike and Raph. I love how Raph is protective of Mike and Mike brings out his softer side. I love how Mike is the one who can make Raph laugh and calm his rages the best. Their relationship works for the same reason Wolverine and Nightcrawler are best friends, but Raph & Mike are family which makes it even better.

Leo/Raph - can't get enough of these two, it's that classic Cyclops/Wolverine vibe, but I think Leo and Raph understand each other a lot better. They fight because they are very different, but also because they have a lot in common. If Leo is the perfect leader, Raph is the perfect 2nd in command. When these two are in sync on the battlefield nothing can stop them! They can know what the other is thinking with a simple look or jesture and act out that strategy together before the enemy knows what hits them.

Mike/Don - the movies really gave us a relationship that we hadn't really seen much of in Mirage or the old toon and the new series has continued on this untapped relationship quite well. The two peacemakers of the family work well together both in strategy and at play. Besides, what other bro is going to be Don's latest guinea pig. ;) It's a classic Beast/Iceman type of relationship.

Leo/Don - totally under-utilized. They seen to be the two "calm" members of the family. I'd like to know more about what Leo thinks of Don's gadgets aside from how well they work in the field. I can see these two ejoying a quiet game of chess together, and the like. We need to know more about these two together.

Raph/Don - again, totally under-utilized. There is the middle child bond that some have mentioned, but I think Don and Raph have more in common than that. They are the two introverts of the family and understand the other's need for "alone time." They both seem to have to "work harder" at ninjitsu to "get it" than their brothers. Mike has the natural talent. Leo does nothing but practice. I get the feeling that Raph & Don feel like they're in the same boat and practice together a lot to "catch up" on things. They also have a similar love for tinkering. Raph may not know computers but when it comes to vehicles Raph loves to take things apart and improve them as much as Don. I see the two of them liking to do various projects together sometimes.

Leo/Mike - for the third time, totally under-utilized, the two extroverts of the family. Oddly I think it'd Leo who brings out the maturity most in Mike and Mike is natually the one who can get Leo to lighten up. I won't say "relaxed," because I think Leo does that most around Don. They both like to read and I think I read somewhere that Leo draws. I could see him and Mike writing a story together, some samurai epic, and keeping it their own brotherly secret. I also think Leo is a bit jealous of Mike's natural talent while Mike is a bit jealous of Leo focus and dicipline when it comes to ninjitsu.

Rooish

01-12-2007, 10:12 PM

Woah. I kinda wanted to write out what I thought of each relationship, but I figured it would take too long. You, however, Time Mistress, have hit every nail on the head. :) At least, in my opinion.

I too love Raph and Mike together most (although sometimes they really seem to dislike each other), and by default, also very much want to see more of a Leo/Don pairing. I think Leo and Don shuld get along very well; the new toon makes Don seem noticeably younger than Leo, though, which separates them--in the comics those two really got along and devised all the plans together. Good point, also, about Raph's and Don's shared introversion and love of tinkering. I don't see them being worse in skill than Mikey (although the new 'toon really does focus on Mikey's "natural talent,") but I agree in all other ways that they should have a bond. Except that Raph's violent and Don's a pacifist. ;) Ah well.

Time Mistress

01-13-2007, 07:51 AM

Thanks Rooish.

I didn't mean to imply Don and Raph were "worse in skill" because I don't think they are. I think each Turtle has their own strengths in battle. I just don't think I've ever seen Mike or Leo complain about one of their bros "showing off" in practice whereas Raph and Don have. I also think Raph and Don were the most annoyed/jealous over Mike winning the Battle Nexus Trophy. Leo seemed to be proud of his little bro (the only thing that annoyed him was hearing about it ever other minute from Mike).

I meant that I think Don and Raph might like practicing alone together sometimes (though not all the time) because I think they learn the most when they spar together as opposed to their bros (consequently I think Leo & Mike learn the most when paired with each other) I also think Raph & Don like to work out their own "tag team" moves. In the new show it always seems like they are watching each other's back and I think there might be some planning in it. Donny is the perfect tag team Turtle. The guy seems to have an instinct to work fluidly with just about anyone, be it his own bros or Usagi (like in Battle Nexus) and I think Raph would take adavantage of that. Mike and Raph like to spar and roughhouse the most it seems, and Leo brings out the competition side in Raph as well. But with Donny I don't see that. I see them as teaching each other with Don helping Raph to keep his calm and concentrate and Raph helps Don bring out his more agressive instincts. Despite the violent/pasifist thing I think they are quite close.

Rooish

01-13-2007, 08:42 AM

That's a really good point; you've convinced me! We want more Raph & Don! (I think there's supposed to be a Lost Season episode where the two pair up.) I think the new 'toon has really started trying to explore their relationship,even in little snippets like in "Nobdy's Fool," "Grudge Match,"and "The Shredder Strikes." It's still underutilized though.

triplexxx

01-13-2007, 12:26 PM

That's a really good point; you've convinced me! We want more Raph & Don! (I think there's supposed to be a Lost Season episode where the two pair up.)
Well, there WAS supposed to be one; unfortunately, its that never-finished "Nightmares Recycled" ep.

Rooish

01-14-2007, 08:39 PM

Oh yeah, I totally should have remembered that!

Ah well. Guess we'e stuck with H.A.T.E. for Raph and Don.

Sage Ninja

01-17-2007, 12:00 PM

Time Mistress, I like your comments and opinions and I think you make very good (and insightful) observations on the turtles complex relationships. And you are right, other than the cliche Don+Mikey and Leo+Raph pairings in the new toon all the other pair-ups are woefully un-explored.

But I think its interesting that you think Leo in extraverted and Raph is introverted. Because I've always felt that it was the other way around. I always felt, despite Raphael's anger issues, that he was a fun loveing and laid back guy like Mikey, and that is why their occasinal pair-ups worked. And Since because Leonardo is more calm and peaceful and spritual, enjoying meditation and such, that he would more of an introvert than an extravert, and that is why that he would get along well with Don.

Rooish

01-17-2007, 02:38 PM

But I think its interesting that you think Leo in extraverted and Raph is introverted. Because I've always felt that it was the other way around. I always felt, despite Raphael's anger issues, that he was a fun loveing and laid back guy like Mikey, and that is why their occasinal pair-ups worked. And Since because Leonardo is more calm and peaceful and spritual, enjoying meditation and such, that he would more of an introvert than an extravert, and that is why that he would get along well with Don.

Kinda agree with Sage Ninja there. Leo is extroverted in some ways and Raph is introverted in some ways, but they are both the opposite too. Leo is extroverted because of his leadership and speaking for the team abilties, but he often does not rely on the companionship of others, and in Season Four of the new show he showed he could be very introverted when he was upset. Raph does seem like he can be very fun-loving like Mikey (in "All Hallow's Thieves" he wanted to go trick-or-treating and seemed quite happy). But in other ways Raph sort of feels not-fitting-in with his family, and that is when I can see him getting along with Don.

Sage Ninja

01-20-2007, 11:16 AM

Personally I really love relationship that Don and Raph share in the new toon. I think they work very well together. And I know there has been more episodes than just H.A.T.E where Don and Raph have paired up, I just can't think of nay right now.

But I find it interesting that some one mentioned that in the mirage comics Raph and Don don't seem to like each other very much. Can some one who has read the Mirage Comics give us a little more insight on how Raph and Don interact with each other? How do Leo and Mike get along in the Mirage Comics?

Time Mistress

01-21-2007, 04:48 PM

Thanks, guys.

My introvert/extrovert assessment was based on trying to fit the TMNT to some Meyers-Briggs type of stuff a while back (yeah, I was bored, but I also like to think about those kinds of things as a writer). I think I had Raph as ISTP, Leo as ENFJ, Mike as ESFP, and Don as INTP.

As for Mirage, it's been ages since I read my stuff. The issue in question though is the one the H.A.T.E. ep is based on. And Don does yell at Raph, but that was because Raph said something stupid. I never saw it as them not getting along much. They tend to hang out a lot together, 'cept when Leo is practicing and Raph is "out." I can't recall and good Leo/Mike moments off the top of my head, but I think Don is the one who helps rescue Raph from DARMA in Vol.2. Also in the Mouser issue, Don & Leo are relaxing and complaining about how loud Mike & Raph are when sparing for fun. Don is working on a circuit board and Leo is reading Dune. Vol. 4 has them acting a lot more like their new toon personalities.