New Ep Discussion: "Cousin Sid"

[Machias Banshee]

Yeah, I know, the show's already been spoiled by the DVD. Well, not everyone's seen it, and we still need a place to discuss it!

So get yourselves prepared, gather your friends, gather your stuffed animals, Your siblings!-- Well, if you want them around. Stockpile your sugary cereals, get the chocolate milk prepared, its gonna be a great start to the new season!


Its been (in RL terms) months since we've last seen the clan since their battle. Theyre still trying to heal from their ordeals with Ch'rell/Shredder, Bishop, Karai and countless other things. More than anything, they're going to need time to heal and get their lives straightened out. Unfortunately, its nowhere near as easy as it would seem.

So much physical and emotional trauma can wear a person down, in terms of both health and mental stability. How can one function correctly after two broken legs, broken ribs, stab wounds, electrocutions.... after a deep betrayal and self-inspection of ones own priorities?


Even in the midst of healing, the boys cannot fully recover. With the sudden arrival of one of Casey's relatives, a new wave of troubles is about to hit the boys. But will they have the strength and endurance to protect themselves, even after the trauma they've already experienced? Or is something going to happen that makes them crack, break down?

WHAT ARE THE BOYS GOING TO BE LIKE?
IS THIS SID GUY GOING TO BE AS OBNOXIOUS AS CASEY?
HOW MANY THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN THAT WE HAVENT ALREADY HEARD ABOUT?
WHY AM I WRITING IN CAPS oh wait a sec...

*ahem*

STAY TUNED!

[Yeah, I know it seems silly to post this, but I'm here for those who don't have or don't wanna see the DVD. Plus this'll help keep all the discussions together as well... I hope. ]

[Machias Banshee]

Only Twelve hours (give or take) until the start of the new season! :thyper:

Check your tapes, get the cereal ready, set up camp and hide the remote, its gonna be good! :D


*Goes to fend off the lounge TV for morning*

[Kali]

I like that for once I get to take part in an episode discussion before the sixth page. I’ll have to tape the new opening next week.

I like how they still had the Turtles and Splinter injured. Poor Raph, getting locked in the closet. But it was so funny. Although I tried to avoid spoilers, I did get hints at Leo’s personality change, which was shown in this episode. That looks like it’s going to be an interesting character development. I don’t think Raph’s comment was meant for Leo to act like that all the time.

I’m not sure how I feel about “Ninja April”. But I totally loved the little Turtle note on the Purple Dragon’s shirt.

[rayfillet101]

That was amazing! I was shocked Sid pulled a gun on them! Don looks to be in the best shape out of the turtles so far. Next weeks preview looks whack! thye healed that fast? :roll:

[Machias Banshee]

I missed the first five minutes and the intro (mom called), but I really liked what I saw. Poor boys...

[creativerealms82]

At least Ninja April did not just come out of no where, she was training thoughout last season.

Anyway good episode, it seems more genuinly funny instead of just throwing in iffy puns.

[BartAllen]

Leos character developement was interesting. He isnt a nieve as he once was.

[Katie]

And they pulled a fast one with the intro song....

I said it once already. Poor Leo. All he's got on his mind is his poor broken family and revenge...

[creativerealms82]

Due to the new episodes having the old into in the DVD no one was to expect a new intro. Nice, it was mostly the same with some added parts like the character shout outs and the "We Shredded Shredder" part. I like it better then this shows old intro even if the change really is not much.

Raph kind of crossed the line with that comment there for a second. That was a bit too mean.

[shadowflame611]

I liked this episode... it had some good lines in it.

I'm pretty sure that the whole 'Leo'c changed bit will continue... at least, I want it to. :) ( I don't have the DVD, so I haven't seen the episodes)

[Triceraton]

I like the new intro in that it still mentions Shredder, but makes it clear that he's finished(for now at least). Also some of those scenes, and this episode, make me feel that maybe the Purple Dragons will be focused on a little more this season.

Anyway, this was a good episode. I liked that everyone was still injured, and that they had to work around the injuries. And the whole tone of this one, with the Purple Dragons never quite knowing what was going on, was great.

I'm not sure what's going on next week though. That preview could best be described as random...

[Mr. Stay Puft]

I can't remember the last time anyone said "all that and a bag of chips." That is soooooo 90s style. J/k. Good episode. Can't believe Raph made that remark "Maybe we should get Karai to stab him more often."

[Katie]

I think Raph was just being Raph. He was just trying to push buttons...which apparently he did.

Hey did anyone else think it was interesting that Mikey stapped between Leo and Raph....kinda reminded me how Leo broke things up between Raph and Mikey in The first Casey Ep way back when. :ohwell:

[cowabunga14]

I have not seen this episode yet. I recorded cuz it was on at 5:30 in the morning. They should start the baseball games at 5:30 in the morning so they can be over with. Hardly anyone cares about baseball anymore. People that play baseball probably don't even watch it. This episode sounds intrestin'. The only beef is I'll have to wait for my dad to get up so I can watch watch it in the bedroom. I'm very anxious to watch it. Hopefully he'll get up before the Bruce Campbell movie marathon on Sci Fi Channel.

[Ryona]

This was a good start to a very promising dark season.

I really enjoyed the subtle creepy parts like Leo's dark demeaner, Donnie's ghostly display with that one Purple Dragon, and Splinter hiding as a scarecrow. :D

I for one am thrilled that Leo is finally embracing the inner darkness deep in him. Like, he's always had a subtle dark side to him... but now it's becoming more obvious.

Does anyone agree that Mikey has pretty damn incredible good luck? I mean, wow... He was certainly born under a lucky star.

Raph in the closet was pretty funny. :lol:

Raph had better watch what he says around Leo now. I don't think Leo will hold back from kicking Raph's butt anymore. :teek:



Oh, and "ninja" April is becoming a bit much in the series. I hope they tone it down and not get ridiculous with the concept. :sweatdro:

[OA]

Sheesh!! I hat having to wait till Sunday to watch the show!!! Thats the freakin listing over here, has been since they started airing..oh well...

[TerranigmaFreak]

Hey, where's the thread where everyone's screaming how the show is doomed cause it's on at 11:30? It was on at 10:30 in my place.

Very enjoyable episode. I thought it might be boring but it was just really enjoyable. It feels a little different than the way the other 3 seasons started. This ep is just tons of fun.

[Masked Ninja]

Wow, nice episode. I really liked how they kept the Turtles injured and showed them finding ways around it to fight the Purple Dragons. Leo's dark demeanor is sad to watch, but not surprising or unrealistic. He's failed yet again to convince Karai of her wrongs, and his entire family got smacked around. I wouldn't be in the mood for much gaity (sp?) either.

Did anyone else look at the Turtle drawing and think "Benvenuto?" :tlol: I mean, the face was shaded, and the bandana was left white... Yeah, I'm a dork. :tlol: :tpizza:

The animation struck me as quite good during April's fight. Usually the way they do humans bugs me, but their Turtle animation usually shines. And while I don't like her to be a ninja butt-kicking machine as a character, they did build a solid background to her skills. And hooray for not-total-clutz-and-moron Casey! *does a dance*

The next episode looks like a time jump, as they aren't all bandaged in the preview. I doubt they'd be so stupid as to say "It's a few days later, and look! All better!"

Man, I gotta get this DVD now. *wishes for a car*

[Anarchistguy]

I just saw it. Wow. Pretty good to see a non sciece-fiction episode for once.

and...

Raph had better watch what he says around Leo now. I don't think Leo will hold back from kicking Raph's butt anymore.

Yeah, like he'd let THAT stop him...

[Buslady]

I just saw it. Wow. Pretty good to see a non sciece-fiction episode for once.

and...



Yeah, like he'd let THAT stop him...



Raph might want to get leo to fight him..raph KNOWS the pain all that anger,etc brings on and his way of beating the crap out of something helps him get it out...Raph would egg Leo on to get it out by fighting. i hope i made sense...

[OA]

Hey, where's the thread where everyone's screaming how the show is doomed cause it's on at 11:30? It was on at 10:30 in my place.

Very enjoyable episode. I thought it might be boring but it was just really enjoyable. It feels a little different than the way the other 3 seasons started. This ep is just tons of fun.

Yea, its scheduled to air at 10:30 am tomorrow over here as well...

[J Legault]

hi, been awhile since I posted on this forum. I haven't gotten any of the recent DVd yet. And I haven't seen some of the Season 3 Episodes yet(mainly the time travel ones).

I like this episode since it's all taken place at the Farmn are again and get to see Sid for the first time ever. Since he was mentioned in Season 1 he was bound to show up soon.

I laughed when Mikey was about to say "smells like burnt rat" but stop when he relized it was Splinter. And the part with Mikey torn down the log shed on purpose. Then was in the mood for Chips. :lol:

I knew the Theme song would be different. And it included Bishop who'll be the new villian to watch out for.

Anyways a good and funny first episode of Season 4. Can't wait to see the upcoming episodes. now that I have a DVR I can record them now.

[Doppleganger]

I liked the idea they portrayed that they will be focusing a little more on the Purple Dragons this season (at least that's the feeling I'm getting). They were SO underrated in the previous two seasons and now it looks like they will be back stronger and tougher than ever. They certainly look more organized and tougher to take down something that I know why. :D But I can't say. :lol:

Competent Casey is something that I've wanted to see for a very very long time now. It looks like the writers finally realized what a doofus they made out of Casey and fixed that. :roll: Good thing they did.

I've heard that they are going to expanding on Ninja April some more. *groans* I was afraid they did that. Just as long as they don't give her fantastical Mary-sueish skills like they did "World's Collide" I suppose it shouln't be too bad.

[J Legault]

Atleast those Ninja lessons paid off in this episode.

[Masked Ninja]

So long as she doesn't get supremely cool and needs the Turtles to bail her out on occasion, that's fine. I like her not being a total damsel in distress, but she shouldn't be cool. And I don't want her to get better than the Turtles when they've been training six times longer.

[Ryona]

Exactly, Masked Ninja. She's not suppose to be a fighting machine. It just doesn't fit her character. It's like, everyone is a goddamn ninja all of a sudden. It's ridiculous.
Sure, she could know some basic self-defense moves. That's fine. But it shouldn't go any further than that.

Like Masked Ninja said, the last thing the series should do is have April so good that she'd be at the level of characters like the boys, Casey, and Karai... or even best them. :dead:

She shouldn't even be half as good as them.

I'm glad she's not totally helpless... but she should only be able to keep the baddies from kidnapping her, and stall for time 'till the boys show up. Not actually beat up foes.

[Sakirules]

I always wondered what would Leo, as the group leader, rather put up with? raph's hot-headed side or Mike's silly jokes. This episode just answered my question.

[XERO]

Did anyone else look at the Turtle drawing and think "Benvenuto?" :tlol: I mean, the face was shaded, and the bandana was left white... Yeah, I'm a dork. :tlol: :tpizza:

Hey, I finally must be rubbing off somebody... :P

What an awesome way to start off the new season. We finally gett to see the ever-popular cousin of Casey, Sid! What a doofus. :lol:

More analysis later. I'm kinda sloppy right now. :P

[Masked Ninja]

Hey, I finally must be rubbing off somebody... :PHaha, yes. You definitely have ruined my life. *stern glare*

:tlol:

[XERO]

Enjoy the view.

I'm totally rad from all angles...8) ;)

[John 14:6]

It's great to be starting the new season! I have to agree with everyone who said they liked seeing the team still injured but overcoming. I think I'm going to miss Shredder, though :(

I'm on Raph's side with his remark. He's been warning Leo all this time yet Leo kept getting his hopes up.

The new parts of the opening sequence is awesome! Especially that animation of Hun. And did you guys see that contraption they flashed quick after showing Bishop? Stockman's new body?

[J Legault]

I saw clips of the upcoming epsiodes as well. I think I saw a split second of Mikey dressed as an old lady, some mutants, Hun, and an alien invasion which isn't the Triceratons. I should buy the recent DVD to see the unaired episodes of Season 4

[zkarlette]

I liked the fact of the continuity , they are not magicaly healed and theyre still trying to cope with what happenned.

Other thing I was happy to see is the Eps being more dark but funny at the same time.

Mike was lucky Indeed I guess he is all that... and a super sized combo :P

Cant wait for the next eps :D

[Hunter_Killer]

Lucky peeps, I only got to see bits and pieces because I was channel switching whenever commercials came on. Hard telling when the commercial ends when you're watching something else at the time. Wonder if I should start threatening myself with a loaded gun to not change the channel whenever TMNT comes on.

[XERO]

I'd tape them for you, HK. Commercial free, too.

Sorry, man. :P :D

[Mandi-chan]

I loved it, a nice start to a new season. A new start for our boys.

Leo's getting a dark mood, wonder what he'll do?

I felt Raph's comment was a bit too nasty, but then again, he's always hated Karai.

It looked like, in next week's ep, that Mikey still has his casts on. I couldn't tell with the others though.

I love this show!

[Aska_Badoura]

"Maybe we should get Karai to stab him more often."

Somebody needed to clobber Raph for saying that. Can we be any more insensitive?! Helloo, emotionally traumatized brother here!

I said it once already. Poor Leo. All he's got on his mind is his poor broken family and revenge...Well, I don't think it's revenge, exactly. He's been hurt really bad emotionally, and it'll just take a lot of time for that to heal. I don't think he wants to hunt down Karai or anything. A chance meeting on the other hand... well, I don't know how he'd react. It's prob'ly gonna hurt though.. :(

Raph might want to get leo to fight him..raph KNOWS the pain all that anger,etc brings on and his way of beating the crap out of something helps him get it out...Raph would egg Leo on to get it out by fighting. i hope i made sense...Hrm... really? I don't think it'd help Leo that much to fight with him about it. It might make him worse.

I'm on Raph's side with his remark. He's been warning Leo all this time yet Leo kept getting his hopes up.But the stabbing was an accident! :(



In case you didn't know, next week's is based on this comic (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/13/13.htm). I wondered if they were gonna do that one.

*hopes fervently for "Sons of the Silent Age"*

[KROW]

I watched this at work this morning and I loved it. I'm so glad that Casey wasn't written in as a buffoon in this episode (he even figured out his grandfather's mystery clue). I also loved Donnie's barn scene, and cracked up when Splinter hit that one Purple Dragon in the lower regions. :lol:

And yes, I'll admit, I kind of liked Mikey's chips line, even though all I thought of was Homer Simpson.

A good episode and a great opening.

[Anarchistguy]

"Maybe we should get Karai to stab him more often."

Somebody needed to clobber Raph for saying that. Can we be any more insensitive?! Helloo, emotionally traumatized brother here!


I'm sorry if I sound like a jackass, but he was right to say that. Like someone here said earlier, he warned Leo ALL THIS time and he STILL got his hopes up. Now look what happened.

[Aska_Badoura]

I'm sorry if I sound like a jackass, but he was right to say that. Like someone here said earlier, he warned Leo ALL THIS time and he STILL got his hopes up. Now look what happened. LOL, okay, I can argue (I am firmly convinced it was an accident), but I won't. He doesn't need to rub Leo's face in it though. :p

[longing for leo]

wow. it's been so long...
ok, did any1 else immediately hear dr. evil saying "all that & a bag of potato chips" in austin powers 2 when mikey did? lol, gotta love cultural references. i agree that it was great that they were still injured. it really surprised me. made me shout "yes!" actually. it did seem darker, although i could've used more turtle time & less time focusing on sid & the dragons. nice that mikey was actually funny, for once. ok, i've held off for long enough...

ah! raph & leo are messed up! i hate what the writers made them do/say.
"Maybe we should get Karai to stab him more often." omg raph, how could he say that? i don't understand. he SAW leo get stabbed. from his reaction it looked like he thought leo was DEAD. he screamed "leo nooo!" & had that look. shouldn't he be scarred from that? shouldn't he be having nightmares of leo being killed? why the shell would he say that? he couldn't possibly be so, arg, that he was actually enjoying rubbing the fact that he was right about karai in leo's face?
Somebody needed to clobber Raph for saying that. Can we be any more insensitive?! Helloo, emotionally traumatized brother here!
exactly! i really don't get raph in this ep. & i'm really ticked off at him, & not only for the leo thing. everything he said was vindictive or violent. not only was he threatening mikey w/ extreem pain through all of his scenes, he actually did cause his bro pain! what the shell is his problem!?! is he so intollerant of his ribs/back pain or something that the only way he can deal w/ it is to make others suffer?
ok, breath in, breath out. sigh, i just really don't like this embittered leo, & damn it, raph isn't helping! why can't he just be supportive like he was in tales of leo? i was sure that they would have a brotherly moment w/ raph getting upset from a flashback/dream of leo's "death" or something. would it have been so hard to give us 1 moment of brotherly affection!?! i really had my hopes up when the pairs, leo & raph & mikey & don, were supporting each other on the way into the house, but after that, it's like all the bros are growing more distant towards each other. i really hope that (& leo's embittered state) isn't permanent. & raph had better cut it out! :x

& yet, i still loved the ep & wait w/ baited breath for the next 1 (whose promo i didn't watch, so please no spoilers, thanks!)

[R-iZZy]

I never saw the new eps on the DVD yet, but seeing as how in-love I am with the original Mirage comics, I knew off the back that this would stem from the first issue of Tales of the TMNT Vol I. The situation just seemed so identitical. Anyway, this episode was pulled off NICELY from how the issue went. And there was a lot more action. Mikey's annoyance is always there... but he does shine with his humor.

Raph's line at Leo was vicious, and I loved it. I'm just itching to see Leo start to become the wild child, giving Raph a run for his money. It's looking to be that way. Even Splinter was calling for Leo when Leo was going towards the window.

I think this is a great way to introduce the new season to the viewers.

I love how this show sticks to the original comics... I'm in love with this. And to make things even better, next week's show is taking from the TMNT Vol. 1, Issue 13. I'll be looking forward to it, because that was one of my favorite issues! I can't wait till they make the episode of my favorite issue of all-time from all the TMNT comics (which is guaranteed to happen this season).

[Mars-Chan]

BEST EPISODE OPENER EVER!!!


The fact that the guys still had the strength to fight, even though they were still wounded makes me proud to be a geekette of this show. :D

Did anyone love the following Mike/Raph line other than me?
Mike: *as he painfully climbs in the window* "Too bad Raph missed all of the fun!"
*WHUMP!!!!!!!!*
Raph: *Smirking* Not ALL the fun!

:lol: :D

[blue_angel99]

AT LAST!!!! I had to wait till after the dodger game to see it but it was worth it. Season 4 looks so awesome. April and Casey's relationship seems to be blooming. I wonder if they'll ever work Shadow into the show? April being able to kick butt is great but hopefully she won't go all-out ninja girl. Splinter looks terrible. I guess I would to if I got electricuted. Raph "joke" was insensitive but hey that's a typical Raph comment; he just doesn't think.I liked the closet bit.Mikey is still his cool, goofy self despite all the terrible things that have happened. Donny seem to be more aggressive in his fighting. That scene in the barn was pretty tight. Don's getting to be a hard shell. Leo's mood is understandable. He is a perfectionist and failure is just not an option. He has a good heart and had hoped that given the chance and shown the truth, Karai would leave the Shredder's services. The fact that he was wrong and failed to get her on the right path probably hurts more than his physical wounds. That scar on his shell is going to be a constant reminder of his failure. I'm sure are some time with Splinter or some fat wise man guy that farts a lot (the previews), he will be back to his old warm and charming self. I can't wait to see nexts week show. It is from a Vol. 1 comic story instead Jhanna looks mor alien than human. I wonder if Donny will fall for her like in the comic. It's so cute how he stands there at the end and stares off into space holding her braid.


LONG LIVE TMNT!!!!

[Leonardo Mystic]

Poor Leo. :( He's really hurting, and barely said anything through the whole show, but when he did he sounded so bitter. His voice has taken a hard edge to it. I'm kind of on the fence about it right now. It sounds really great and more mature, but at the same time it's the fact behind the change that makes me iffy on it. We'll see as the season progresses where my opinion stands.

Great episode. I liked how Casey was actually being as great as he was in the first season, and April really knows some moves. It appears her training is paying off.

[jestergoblin]

I didn't get to see it and probably won't get to for awhile... Which dvd is this out on?

[trez]

The newest one, "Shredder's Final Countdown."

[OA]

Finally! The new eps come on Sundays over here so i finally got the chance...and man was it good...it was great seeing the turtles still in pain and bandangaes...good to see they are keeping the series continuity...as usual, loved the Mikey/Raph interactions...

Ah, what a day, TMNT begins and NFL begins as well....perfect was to spend a Sunday!

[longing for leo]

Poor Leo. He's really hurting, and barely said anything through the whole show, but when he did he sounded so bitter. His voice has taken a hard edge to it. I'm kind of on the fence about it right now. It sounds really great and more mature, but at the same time it's the fact behind the change that makes me iffy on it. We'll see as the season progresses where my opinion stands.
did you notice that he sounds exactly like he did in sainw now? When he said "enough talk," or whatever it was that led to raph's "maybe we should get karai to stab him more often," comment, i immediatly saw him raising his sword to fight raph over splinter's death. could this be the beginning of an inevitable leo/raph split? :( gosh i hope not. :cry:

[Lioness-Goddess]

I didn't get to see it and probably won't get to for awhile... Which dvd is this out on?

Neither did I. I can't believe my frikkin POWER went out....I am so upset over that. However....I WILL watch it next week! Oh, yes I will....

Anyway, as for Raph, it seems to me that making hurtful and sarcastic comments is how he deals with guilt. Maybe.

[cowabunga14]

I watched this episode yesterday mornin' and thought it was excellent. I'm glad the writers really pulled it off and made it enjoyable. Tales of the TMNT #1 Vol 1 was a great comic to spawn an episode. I'm glad everyone decided to use that comic. I never knew it could be used for such inspiration. Cousin Sid was a great episode to start off the season. I liked that action and the funny moments. I liked that fact that Casey didn't act like a doofus. The writers are makin' it so Casey'll be taken more seriously. That's a good direction for the character. That was fun when Splinter jumped out of that scarecrow and knocked out that Purple Dragon. He really showed him. That was funny when Mikey knocked out that Purple Dargon with that wooden structure. I dunno the name of it. That was creative way for him to knock out that Purple Dragon. You don't see that too often. All in all, great episode. I didn't expect to see the Purple Dragins return. I thought Sid was gonna crazier than he turned out to be. Oh well. I give this episode a five out of five.

I can hardly wait for next week's episode. It looks like it'll be just as good. If not, better.

[Anarky]

It was a great episode, but the whole setting sort of spoiled it a bit for me. I mean, how realistic is it that something like this happens in a place where there's usually noone? ..not very.

Other than that, I can say that it was a great show. I also loved how they let the turtles be injured, it really fits the show.

Uhm, I also think that there's an episode missing here. I mean, it's Sunday and I have seen Dragon's Brew, and I'm usually way behind. Either that, or I'm too stupid to find the thread.

[Kali]

Uhm, I also think that there's an episode missing here. I mean, it's Sunday and I have seen Dragon's Brew, and I'm usually way behind. Either that, or I'm too stupid to find the thread.
Dragon's Brew, and two other Season 4 eps, including Cousin Sid (under a different name) were prereleased by 4Kids on DVD. So the people with that DVD have the episodes before they air on TV.

[Raph's Girl]

Well I liked this episode... Leonardo's attitude and brooding reminded me of Batman....And from what I've seen of future eps it seems it's gonna stick for a while.

April's outfit reminded me of what the girl farmer wears in Harvest Moon: More Friends of Mineral Town...yea yea...Im hooked on that game...gah :P

But the ep did go well with the comic....and it looks as if the Purple Dragons have made their way to Massachusets....oi....I hope Sid turns up in another ep along with Casey's mom!

As for Raphael's comment about Karai... I think he was just testing Leo to see how long it took to push his buttons.

Splinter needs to take a bath.... the singed fur smell gives him away too easily... :P

I love it when everybody was complaining to April and Raphael's complaint was: "Can you wap Mikey off the side of the head for me? I can't reach..." :lol:

Oh and the new theme song.... *sings* Leonardo leads er uh always in control..

It's gonna take me a bit to get used to it... altho it is similar to the OS theme the turtles are in different positions...

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

exactly! i really don't get raph in this ep. & i'm really ticked off at him, & not only for the leo thing. everything he said was vindictive or violent. not only was he threatening mikey w/ extreem pain through all of his scenes, he actually did cause his bro pain! what the shell is his problem!?! is he so intollerant of his ribs/back pain or something that the only way he can deal w/ it is to make others suffer?
ok, breath in, breath out. sigh, i just really don't like this embittered leo, & damn it, raph isn't helping! why can't he just be supportive like he was in tales of leo? i was sure that they would have a brotherly moment w/ raph getting upset from a flashback/dream of leo's "death" or something. would it have been so hard to give us 1 moment of brotherly affection!?! i really had my hopes up when the pairs, leo & raph & mikey & don, were supporting each other on the way into the house, but after that, it's like all the bros are growing more distant towards each other. i really hope that (& leo's embittered state) isn't permanent. & raph had better cut it out! :x



Why is everyone mad at Raph for saying that. That was one of my fav Raph lines.

'sides, it's just Raph being Raph. And if he didn't say it, you know Mikey would've said something similar.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Raph was being totally insensitive. The remark was not called for. I don't believe even Mikey would say something that low.

[KROW]

Raph was being totally insensitive. The remark was not called for. I don't believe even Mikey would say something that low.
Well, not for nothing, but Leonardo was being pretty idiotic for not taking care of Karai when he should have. He confused honor with loyalty and fell for it more than once. He shouldn't have been fooled, and Raphael let him know it with that little comment. It simply shows that Leo has more to learn about trust.

[Masked Ninja]

I think Leo sees similarities between himself and Karai and earnestly wants to save her from her delusions about the Shredder. He can see her hesitation as far as fighting against him and his brothers, and it's killing him that she won't switch sides even if she DOES see the truth. And the perfectionist in him wants to make her see things his way, because he knows he's right. And the fact that he can't is so frustrating, especially after this last failure to "convert" her.

As for Raph's comment... it was insenstive, over the line, below the belt, and many other things. But I think that he's just taking a leaf from Mikey's book : when the stress gets too much, joke to lessen the tension. It was simply a joke gone awry because Leo's still pretty tender on the subject.

[J Legault]

We'll soon see what became of Karai in Season 4.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Well, not for nothing, but Leonardo was being pretty idiotic for not taking care of Karai when he should have. He confused honor with loyalty and fell for it more than once. He shouldn't have been fooled, and Raphael let him know it with that little comment. It simply shows that Leo has more to learn about trust.

I know, but Raph didn't have to rub it in. Even if it was meant as a joke, it was still cruel. Leo already knows he made some big mistakes. He is beating himself enough as it is without Raph's ass comments.

[Ryona]

I know, but Raph didn't have to rub it in. Even if it was meant as a joke, it was still cruel. Leo already knows he made some big mistakes. He is beating himself enough as it is without Raph's ass comments.


Agreed. Raph didn't need to be an ass-dick like that. I really wanted to see Leo punch Raph in the face for that. We see Raph smack Mikey enough times, it's about time we see Leo give Raph some beatings now.

[Spitfire]

I like it when Raph plays with Leo like that. It shows us how much of a hothead Leo really is dispite how he acts.

[Jo Dawn]

*nods* I didn't see the ep... but I know what you mean. Raph and Leo are more alike than they'd care to admit... They just show it in different ways. I think it's a facinating thing to think about and watch. A very interesting concept.

[Ryona]

I understand what you two are saying, but man, does Raph irritate me sometimes...

If I was Leo, I wouldn't put up with half the crap from Raph that Leo does. Like everytime Raph smacks Mikey. Now, I know that's suppose to be funny, but I don't find it funny at all. This is not Three Stooges, and Raph is not Moe. If I was Leo and for everytime I saw Raph smack Mikey, I would rush over there and Punch Raph in the face.

I don't like to see any of my friends mistreat my other friends, and I would certainly be pissed and act if I saw it happen.

[Mandi-chan]

Yeah, I agree. It was kinda funny at first, but now it's becoming abusive. I don't care how annoying Mikey may be, that's no reason for him to get smacked around all the time.

It was nice to see Mikey handle Raph after his jerky comment about Karai, an no I don't think he would made a comment like that.

As for Karai, they knew who's side she was going to be on. It was quite clear to me that she didn't really want to fight them, and I don't think Leo's brooding because Karai accidently stabbed him either.

[KROW]

Oy.

Leo deserved it. How many times has he let Karai get away with things and backstab him, allowing her to forsake honor for loyalty to Shredder? Just because he connects with her on a warrior's level (and probably on a more personal level) shouldn't mean that he doesn't give her a good, clean beating.

Leo was naive, and just because Raph pointed it out, doesn't mean that he should get hit for it. And so what that Leo was already going through it in his mind. Did Raph know that? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't necessarily mean that his comment was asinine or over the line.

Think about it, now. Raph said, "Maybe Karai should stab Leo more often."

Really, the comment wasn't that bad. What do you think the meaning behind it was? Raph pushing Leo's buttons again? Not entirely. Sure, he said it so that his brother can be more like him, jumping into battle first and formulate a plan later. But this also triggered a thought that Leonardo needs to learn that trust is a very fragile thing that shouldn't be taken at face value.

Raph revealed a revelation of sorts to his brother, whether it was hurtful or not. These guys are growing up, and this little statement shows that it's not going to be easy.

[Kali]

With Raph’s comment about Karai, there’s the possibility that Raphael simply wasn’t thinking, which is entirely possible with him. It could also be that he doesn’t realize just how hurt Leo was by Karai’s actions. I’m not saying it was right, it really was insensitive (Raph? Insensitive? No… :lol: ), but I don’t think Raphael was trying to be malicious. But I do think he deserved to be locked in the closet. :D

Of course, it’s entirely possible that Raphael does have a clearer picture of what’s going on in Leo’s head than even Leo does, and is trying to get Leo to stop keeping it bottled up. Raph would know how bad that is for someone and could possibly be trying to get his brother to take it out on him instead of Leo beating himself up. He's always coming to rescue his brothers in battles, why not this one. By remarking about how much Leo is acting like Raphael, Raph could be trying to push the “get a hold of yourself” button. He’s just not very good at it. :evilgrin:

[Jephael]

Last night I decided to read the issue of Tales that this episode was based on, and I couldn't get over how many moments I never noticed were in the book before. Like when Casey showed April the spot where they patched up the hole he punched in the wall as a kid (except he shows it to Raphael in the comic).

I got chills when Leo said "I hate Purple Dragons!" Can't wait to see how he behaves next episode.

[Anarchistguy]

Agreed. Raph didn't need to be an ass-dick like that. I really wanted to see Leo punch Raph in the face for that. We see Raph smack Mikey enough times, it's about time we see Leo give Raph some beatings now.

Okay. Leo already got screwed with once by Oroku Saki. He KNEW that blindly tursting him was a stupid thing to do. But despite that. He STILL gave a LOYAL and OBEDIENT servant to The Shredder a chance. You know what happened next.

I'm not trying to be an ass, Ryona. I'm just trying to prove a point :)

[Jaf]

Of course, it’s entirely possible that Raphael does have a clearer picture of what’s going on in Leo’s head than even Leo does, and is trying to get Leo to stop keeping it bottled up. Raph would know how bad that is for someone and could possibly be trying to get his brother to take it out on him instead of Leo beating himself up.I agree. Raph deeply loves his brothers and, despite the fact that they are very different, Leo is the one he connects the most with. After that final battle with Shredder, it would be just normal that the whole family would be more united; but Leo is actually drifting away, in his own inner world. The Mirage comics show that Leo's fascination with Karai reaches deep within him, something that none of his brothers really understands. Karai's values (loyalty to the clan, devotion to the ninja ethics, to sacrifice your own desires in order to reach a "superior" goal, etc.) are the same as Leo's, and that creates a bond between them that goes beyond the Foot/turtles rivalry. In fact, it may well be that Leo perceive the Foot Clan and the turtles as two factions of the same "spiritual family", and that he secretly wishes an utopical reunification would happen some day; at least, the leader in him would wish it. On the other hand, his three brothers are more down-to-earth : the Foot are their enemies, and Karai is second in command of that organization.

Raph is not blind, nor heartless; in his case, violence and bitterness is a way to deal with his helplessness. When he thought Leo dead, his pain was great; now that he feels they might «loose» Leo again, he doesn't know how to express it. His harsh comment was probably his way of saying to his brother «Don't go away; you're real family is right here, and we need you». After all, Karai "stabbed" Leo in more than one way; Raph used that image because he knew it would reach Leo's sensibility.

That being said, the dark tone is likely to continue for at least a few eps : the next one is based on issue 13, at the beginning of which Leo acts all paranoid. Ep. 81 will be based on issue 28, «Sons of the Silent Age», which is one of the more pessimistic and reflexive story published, with enormous tension between all the characters (SPOILER!!!!! : for all of you out there wondering if Case and Ape are going to be a regular couple in season 4, all I can say is that the two of them are REALLY getting close in issue 28. So...)

By the way, I loved the episode 8) I'm a long time Mirage fan, so this kind of direct reference always please me. Now, if they can just get Radical in there...

[Aska_Badoura]

Well, not for nothing, but Leonardo was being pretty idiotic for not taking care of Karai when he should have. He confused honor with loyalty and fell for it more than once. He shouldn't have been fooled, and Raphael let him know it with that little comment. It simply shows that Leo has more to learn about trust.Oh, come on... Leo wouldn't be Leo if he tried to take Karai out when she was obviously so confused. She didn't kill him when she had the chance, after he challenged her honor. Turned out she was honorable. He wasn't just gonna turn on her like that.

I think Leo sees similarities between himself and Karai and earnestly wants to save her from her delusions about the Shredder. He can see her hesitation as far as fighting against him and his brothers, and it's killing him that she won't switch sides even if she DOES see the truth. And the perfectionist in him wants to make her see things his way, because he knows he's right.*nodnods* What she said. :) Can I plug a fanfic (http://www.thetechnodrome.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13747)? It's based on Exodus, from Karai's POV, and puts what I think about Karai's personality into one little package. Might give you a different perspective. Or... not. :p

Ep. 81 will be based on issue 28, «Sons of the Silent Age», *eyes widen* That soon?! Ooooh, I hoped so... *melts into puddle* Wow, that one just really gets me...

Leo deserved it. How many times has he let Karai get away with things and backstab him,Um... when? She tried to carry out her master's orders in "Rogue in the House", and Leo didn't have to try very hard to talk her out of it. I can't think of any other time she turned on him, except when he tried to kill the Shredder in "Exodus", and she only fled with Churell (I hope somebody tells us how to SPELL that some century..) rather than fight them. And she kicked Leo. I bet his brothers do worse than that in sparring sessions.

But this also triggered a thought that Leonardo needs to learn that trust is a very fragile thing that shouldn't be taken at face value.Why is everyone overlooking the fact that she saved Leo's life, and got smacked in the face and nearly mutilated for it? She DID switch sides, like he wanted her to! It's all the stuff that happened afterward that makes it unclear how she'll feel about it, this season.

Raph would know how bad that is for someone and could possibly be trying to get his brother to take it out on him instead of Leo beating himself up. Well, after thinking about it a bit, I really do agree with that, it does make sense. I just don't think it would really help Leo all that much. Might make Raph feel better; he's probably weirded out by Leo being so quiet and brooding... getting him into a fight would at least get him to open up a bit. Probably too much, though. :p

[Kali]

Well, after thinking about it a bit, I really do agree with that, it does make sense. I just don't think it would really help Leo all that much. Might make Raph feel better; he's probably weirded out by Leo being so quiet and brooding... getting him into a fight would at least get him to open up a bit. Probably too much, though. :p
It was exactly my point that that strategy would make Raph feel better, so he'd probably figure it might be worth a shot with Leo. We all go, "Hey, my friend's sad. Ice cream makes me feel better when I'm sad. I'll take her out for ice cream!" Psychologist, Raph is not. :lol:

[Ryona]

I agree with everyhthing that Jaf and Aska said. You two are totally right and actually see what's going on with Leo.


Oh, and just to correct two things you said, Anarchistguy... Karai may be loyal to Shredder, but she's not totally obedient. And no, Leo did not blindly put his trust in Oroku Saki as you said. He only considered on partnering with him.

[XERO]

Personally, I think Leonardo can be really gullible.

Nothing to do with the life as a Ninja, but as a person.

[KROW]

Oh, come on... Leo wouldn't be Leo if he tried to take Karai out when she was obviously so confused. She didn't kill him when she had the chance, after he challenged her honor. Turned out she was honorable. He wasn't just gonna turn on her like that.
And Raph wouldn't be Raph if he didn't say what he said.

Bottom line, Karai had a lot of chances to leave Shredder but didn't. She didn't have to stay. She's a big girl and could have felt safe with Leo and the rest if Shredder seeked revenge for her betrayal. So why did she stay? Because she was raised by him? So what? Little birds have to leave the nest sometime.

I'm getting sick of everyone treating Raphael's comment as the thunder that brings World War III. Please, folks. Raph said what he said, rightfully so, and Leo took it. End of story.

[XERO]

And Raph wouldn't be Raph if he didn't say what he said.

Bottom line, Karai had a lot of chances to leave Shredder but didn't. She didn't have to stay. She's a big girl and could have felt safe with Leo and the rest if Shredder seeked revenge for her betrayal. So why did she stay? Because she was raised by him? So what? Little birds have to leave the nest sometime.

I'm getting sick of everyone treating Raphael's comment as the thunder that brings World War III. Please, folks. Raph said what he said, rightfully so, and Leo took it. End of story.


Easy there, KROW. :D

People are just getting used to this sudden tweak in Leo's personality.

And I agree. Raphael said it because that's what Raphael does. Sarcastic wit, remember?

[Masked Ninja]

Personally, I think Leonardo can be really gullible.

Nothing to do with the life as a Ninja, but as a person.Aren't we all, on occasion. But yeah, Leo's sense of honor can sometimes lead him to expect others to steer toward the right thing just because it's the RIGHT THING. He just may not get that Karai's torn.

[Aska_Badoura]

And Raph wouldn't be Raph if he didn't say what he said.Yeah, and I agree with that. :p It's not the first time I've thought somebody should whack him on the head for something he says every now and then. :roll:

[Sage Ninja]

oooh...i'm liking this debate about Leonardo and Raphael's comment going on here. Makes me really regret that I had to work and miss it :cry:.

I didn't see what happened but that comment that Raphael made seemed callous and uncalled for. However I lot of people are making allot of good points on the reasons Raphael could have said what he said. But over all I think that it was rather ruthless to say. But I think I need to see the episode first before I form a final oppion on that.

But some one mentioned that Raphael didn't get off entirely unpuninshed by his comment, and that he some how ended up locked in the closet. WHo locked him in there? Was it Splinter, how did he manage to get the closet?

[Ryona]

Mikey basicly suggested for Raph to be locked in the closet, so Leo and Donnie carried Raph and dropped him off in the closet. :lol:

Splinter didn't even comment on it or showed any hesitation to it. :lol:

[zkarlette]

Mike can be a good mediator some times :P

[Aska_Badoura]

Hmm... I got the impression that just moving around made Raph hurt a whole lot, while the other guys were pretty much okay as long as they didn't overdo it (or bump their injuries, ouch). He hurt the most, so he got the closet. :) But maybe I misinterpreted it.

[Whitewolf89]

Due to the new episodes having the old into in the DVD no one was to expect a new intro. Nice, it was mostly the same with some added parts like the character shout outs and the "We Shredded Shredder" part. I like it better then this shows old intro even if the change really is not much.

I like the new intro, too. Hence my new screencap request for some pics of it over at the screencap thread. ;)

Raph kind of crossed the line with that comment there for a second. That was a bit too mean.

As much as I love our resident TMNT hothead, I have to agree. Leo was hurt enough by Karai's final betrayal. That stabbing crack was low, even for Raph. I think that them putting him in the closet so he missed out on all the action was a fit punishment for that. Actually, I think that he got off pretty lightly with that, given Leo's reaction TO his remark! But that's just me.

All in all, I liked this ep. I liked the fact that the animators left them hurt after what happened to them all aboard Shredder's ship, rather than them being fully healed when they returned to Earth. It was more realistic that way, which was WHY I liked it.

And Mikey's line after he took out that Northhampton Purple Dragon...priceless. THAT's going in my sig....provided nobody around here has beaten me TO it already. Which wouldn't be a problem, anyway. Heh.

Anyway, can't wait to see NEXT week's ep. Looks like it's gonna be yet another TMNT comic adaptation, as was this week's. (This ep was adapted, with a few minor changes, from "Tales of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" Volume 1, Issue 1...which I happen to be the proudly lucky owner of, so I know.) And I noticed that Raph's coming up with a new variation on their classic "shell-for-brains" "insult". "Nunchuk-for-brains". Priceless, Raph, just priceless!

Anyway, that's MY 2 cents. Be back here Saturday with MY take on the next ep! Til then.......

Peace.

[Zelda]

I think Raph's comment came off as viscious but wasn't meant to be... I think he meant it more as a verbal slap in the face said out of LOVE of his brother, fear of him being hurt, etc and it DID get right to the point. And that's typical Raph...I mean, could you see him instead saying "Okay Leo, we need to talk. You've been making some poor choices here...these are what the consequences have been... I care about you and worry about you and it scares me when you do these things. I know the thing with Kairai has been rough, but you're smart...I know you've learned from it too. Remember to KEEP that learning with you, don't forget it." and so on. I think, in a less complex way, that was what was in Raph's mind....but he's not emotionally mature enough to even consider a conversation as a plausible way to communicate what he feels. He feels, he reacts, that's it. And I bet he probably feels bad about it afterwards (which could be why he's so angry all the time).

[longing for leo]

that is a really good point zelda. it makes me feel better about raph, cause i really don't want to be as ticked off at him as i am right now. i watched cs again & noticed that raph seemed to be in a really lighthearted/sincere/ & even nice mood after leo said "let's take care of them," or whatever. raph really seemed to be sincerely happy that his serious bro was actually acting like him. his smile looked genuine & not malicious. maybe raph thought they'll be closer, have more in common. maybe raph was elated at having some1 finally understand what's going on in his head/heart. who knows, maybe he was really worried about leo after the i'm not hungry/window thing & wanted to test him to see if his spirit or whatever was broken. i just hope they work this out. :( they need something like the reforging of leo's swords to bring them back together. i really don't want the writers to fall into the forced pattern of leo & raph always bickering...or mikey getting whacked up side the head by raph in every ep! :x it's getting really old! seriously, both leo & raph had issues in cs, raph's never been this violent. granted, he's never been bed ridden either...

[Sage Ninja]

You know you make a valid point about Raph's comment about Leonardo being stabbed was more of him trying to say "hey maybe we're more alike than we thought" and he was elated by it.

I remember an episode where there was a robot that was impersonating Splinter in the seweres and when the real Splinter destroyed it he was so upset that he wanted to go storm into the enimies place and kick their asses. And Raphael commented that he had never seen Splinter act like that before in such a passinate rage, and he even admitted that he "was rather enjoying it".

Maybe he meant nothing by it at all. But i still have to watch this and see for my self how it happened.

Raph irritate me sometimes...

If I was Leo, I wouldn't put up with half the crap from Raph that Leo does. Like everytime Raph smacks Mikey. Now, I know that's suppose to be funny, but I don't find it funny at all. This is not Three Stooges, and Raph is not Moe. If I was Leo and for everytime I saw Raph smack Mikey, I would rush over there and Punch Raph in the face.

I don't like to see any of my friends mistreat my other friends, and I would certainly be pissed and act if I saw it happen.

Now this I sort of disagree on. Sure Raphs physical abuse of Mikey can be botheresome (and lets face it rather childish), but its not like he beats Mikey to with in an inch of his life.

But I do understand where you are coming from Raphael needs to stop hitting Michaelangelo all the time, but it is not Leonardo's responciabilty nor his place to punch Raphael in the face everytime he does it. Thats Michaelangelo's job.

If Michaelangelo wants to stop being Raphael's punch bag than he has to be the one to make him stop. Not Leonardo. If Leonardo was to always jump in and tear Raph a new ass hole for Mikey than Mikey would become dependent on that and become a wuss. I don't know why Michaelangelo hasn't done anything to stop Raphael from hitting him all the time, but maybe it could be that he seriously doesn't mind it.

And another thing thing should be considered. Raphael isn't the only one that hits Mikey. All of them do on occasion. Even Splinter.

[StealthNinjaScyther]

The way I saw it, Raph's comment was very insensitive, but he didn't say it with the intent of hurting Leo. At the very least he wasn't being too much more insensitive than he usually is. The fact of the matter is that it is Leo's personal problem with Karai that illicited Leo's response. Looks like it might take Leo awhile to resolve this issue so that should help make this season more exciting. His next encounter with Karai is bound to an interesting one. And personally, I'm all for him taking out his anger on Karai; for once I'd like to see him not hold back against her.

[Sage Ninja]

I agree with you on that I don't really care for Karai that much, in fact her indeciveness kind of annoys me bit. But with that said I have to say that i respect her character. However if Karai is rigid enough to want to blame the turtles and Leonardo for showing her what an evil depraved bastard the Shredder is and want to destroy him than I'm sorry she is an inredeemable bitch! Just because some one is your Master or what ever doesn't mean you have to go through life with blinders on and ignore all the evil that goes on right infront of you. I think this shows a bit of weakness of character on her part.

And as to Raphael's comment **shrugs** he was put in time out for it and I bet he wishes he had kept his yap shut, since he missed out on all the butt kicking, which is what Raphael lives for. Although I think that this sort of thing is exactly the sort of thing Raphael from the Mirage comics would have said with full milacious intent behind it. So maybe Raphael is going to go more in that direction in this season as well.

[TigerClaw]

This was a great episode, Nice to see April kicking some ass for a change. :D

[Jephael]

If Michaelangelo wants to stop being Raphael's punch bag than he has to be the one to make him stop. Not Leonardo. If Leonardo was to always jump in and tear Raph a new ass hole for Mikey than Mikey would become dependent on that and become a wuss. I don't know why Michaelangelo hasn't done anything to stop Raphael from hitting him all the time, but maybe it could be that he seriously doesn't mind it.

And another thing thing should be considered. Raphael isn't the only one that hits Mikey. All of them do on occasion. Even Splinter.

I can see how from some perspectives it looks like abuse, but in the long run I believe they only do it to try disceplening Mike and attempting to imprint a psychological instinct similar to those found in hamsters and guinea pigs.

However, I do believe Raph's over-use in the technique may have defused Splinter's attempt to better control Mikey's behavior with this method.