Which was the greatest incarnation of Michelangelo?

[trexmaster]

(I carried this over from the temporary forum)

Be sure to explain your preference.

I'm going with old-toon Mikey, he's cuter and from what clips I could find showing him, his voice was less annoying than in the new toon.

[Sage Ninja]

oh god I 'm glad this was brought back up, I just wuish my posts from that thread could have been carried over:-? I was quite proud of them and I put allot of thought in to it. I wish now that I could remeber what I wrote. As of now i only vaguely recall them...

I just hope this thread doesn't die:|

As promiced though I will get into new toon Mike:)

[trexmaster]

So far the "old toon" version is winning, with Mirage following. But so far only four people have voted.

[zkarlette]

Its really hard to say he has always been my favorite on all versions but I think Ill probably go with old toon cause he was the one that started my fandom for the TMNT and I really like his voice , way better than the new toon voice :)

[Vincent]

New toon. Because he has much more personality than any of the previous versions. And I love Wayne's take on Mikey's voice.

[LUCKFF]

I Wish I Could Vote For Both The Movie And New Toon Micky. I Think They Are Indentical. But Since Ive Seen So Much More Of The New Toon Mike I'd Have To Go With Him. All I Have To Say Is "battle Nexus" And "touch And Go"

[Mandi-chan]

As much as I love new toon Mikey, I'm going to have to go with movie Mikey instead.

I don't always like the way the writers of the new toon write my favorite turtle, they've gotten into this horrible habit of writing him as an overly annoying goof-off. He didn't start off that way, but since season 2 they've lost their touch with him, I'm hoping that after "Grudge Match" they'll wise up with his character!

[lilonardo]

original is still the best!

"Michaelangelo is a party dude (Party! ) "

[cqb101]

Mirage. New toon would be second.

[hazlov2004]

new toon mikey he`s cool

[KROW]

Mirage. New toon would be second.
That would be my preference, too. Both aren't too far apart, either.

[cowabunga14]

This is kinda hard for me to vote since I like Mikey the most. I guess I'll go with the Mirage one. His nunchkus looked the best in the Mirage comics IMHO.

[Weapon X]

Mirage because he was great in it, he was cool and funny, but not to the point where it was forced, in fact it was no where near that, and he fought, really well.

I'd pick Movie 1 Mikey after that, mostly for the same reasons, but Mirage is definitely my favorite.

[Masked Ninja]

I really wish I could get my hands on some Mirage comics, so I can see the guys as they originally were! I can imagine Mikey being the best there.

[Shreddette]

I'd have to say Old Toon Mikey.

He may have been all about pizza and "Cowabunga Duuuudes" but he wasn't as annoying as the movie mikey's. He had a more tolerable voice in the old toon and he's way cute in the old toon, makes me laugh. I don't laugh at any of the others jokes.

[heretic888]

Mirage Michelangelo.

Very simply, he's the character with the most depth, flavor, and, well, character.

The media versions are, in my opinion, thinly-veiled stereotypes and cliches. Michelangelo in Mirage was never the comic relief gag character. The Archie character was quite a bit better, especially near the end of the series, but still not up to par with the Mirage version.

Not to mention, Mirage is the original! :D

Laterz.

[Jephael]

I'm going with the Archie comics Mike since he was very level-headed in that series while still maintaining the fun-loving surfer dude personality from the original cartoon.

[Sewer Bull]

The greatest one?

Of course this one:

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/5371/metalmichelangelo6kl.gif

Yeah. Mikey's anime version truly kicks ass.

[heretic888]

Hah! :lol:

Technically, the TMNT had three anime versions --- normal, super mutant, and metal mutant!! The version above is just Mikey's metal mutant form.

Heh. Laterz.

[Sewer Bull]

The version above is just Mikey's metal mutant form.


Yep. But that one is the coolest:P

Super Mutant Mikey is just... errr... not that cool :|

[Benito]

original Comic we have the most in common

[Sage Ninja]

ok I had written my responce to this thread in another thread in the temporary forums and I'll just copy it here on my choice and why.

here it my orginal responce:

ooooohhh this is a difficult choice because I am a Michaelangelo fan all around and how can I pick and choose. By the way I'm sooo glad some one made a thread like this

To be tottally honest I'm going to go with classic cartoon Michaelangelo. He is the first version of him that I knew and of him and the one that I became such a big fan of. I liked him because he was such a generous and good natured guy that was so sociable. He also had a big heart and I just thought he was cute and adorable. I also liked that even though he was generally cheery and up beat that he could show other emotions and wasn't two demincanal. I remeber times when he would be pensive or down or upset. I also liked that he could be serious at times too when the situation called for it. And to be honset I didn't find him annoying, I mean there where times when he could be a bit whinny but he I never found him annoying or obnoxious.

I also liked the concept of his character, here are four turtles that are out casts of society they tend to keep to them selves and seem to be fine with that for the most part. Michaelangelo was socialble and wanted to just go out and make friends and party. Which is weird for a freak of nature to do, all the the other turtles had personalities that more or less fit their status of misfits and ninjas. Leonardo was the serious dillegent leader , Donatello was the quite technical genous , and Raphael was this sarcastic wise guy that was cynical about every thing and Mike's the easy going party dude his personality didn't fit with being a social out cast. In that sence he was kind of the black sheep of the family or the odd ball. It was cool the way they did this, because normally the one that is anti social and introverted is the misfit of the group, but in the turtles unique situation that concept is reversed.

But then that are core elements that Michaelangelo in most mediums has possesed I gues that is why he is my favorite. I think he was like this his other incarnations as well. The only Michaelangelo's that I;ve seen are live action movie, classic cartoon, and new toon. I have no idea what he is like in other forms. Personallity wise and in nature is he basically the same?

and because I can't have a single post where I don't analyse in some way here was my thoughts and analys on classic cartoon Michaelangelo, I hope you like it, this was my orginal post...

[Sage Ninja]

ok I tried putting this with my post above but it wouldn't let me, I know that double posting is generally not allowed but I hope the moderators don't kill me:dead:

Continutation of above...

QUOTE (The Creeper @ Oct 12 2005, 02:37 PM)
Wow!! I actually agree!!! you brought out the deeper side of "old toon Mike". I don't think I would have thought that about those elements of him for awhile, I have a new respect for "old toon Mike". I used to kinda consider his protrayal to be of a bumbler or a dolt, but now I see the deeper side of "old toon Mike".




thankyou I am glad I could make some people see Michaelangelo from the classic cartoon in a better light. He deserves it.

I think allot of people disregard his character as being foolish because they just see what is on the surfice of his character and do not see what is beneath. He is in fact rather interesting character. He was always portrayed as being a compentent fighter but not as good as the others (mostly in the later seasons), he seemed to struggle the most during thier lessons (or at least showed the most reluctance). This interested me about him because he seemed very good in fighting but always seemed to struggle to keep up with the others. I sometimes wondered if he actually didn't want to really try hard so that he wouldn't cause conflict with the others. Any way the fact that things didn't come easily for him (or atleast they apeared to be) kind of endeared him to me because it made him human to me that he had to struggle just to keep up with the others and stay on the same playing field as them.

I always wondered if maybe he wasn't as good a fighter sometimes during practice because he deep down didn't want to be a ninja, personally as compentent as he could be in actual battle I don;t think he had the temperement for it.

I always got this empression from him that even though he was the most cheerful of the four, he was probably the most aggravated about not being able to go out in public and make friends and be normal. Here he is learning how to skate board and surf and engaging in all these very social activities and he really can't go out and do them in the open with other people. It was like he was forever getting ready to go party but there was never any one to party with . And he was always so excitable about these things but it was kind of sad that he really couldn't have done them in the way that he probably wanted to. I kind of felt sorry for him.

And because of Mike's blase attitude, I always got a vibe of excasperation off the other turtles and they where like :what the hell is wrong with you!? do you not realize that you are a huge walking, talking, friggen turtle! why don't you act like one. I think this made Michaelangelo an outsider even in a family of outsiders because his personalty was to extraverted. Which is a shame because the others didn't take him seriuosly as a result.

My biggest pet peeve is when people think that Michaelangelo is a moron or a simpleton, which I think is so far off from the truth. He is (I think) just as intellegent as Leonardo and Raphael. Michaelangelo in fact wasn't that dumb, there where plenty of times that he used he showed how smart and resourceful or insightful he was, particularly in battle. He was just never really given a chance to use them to often in the series. I think allot of people confuse his amiable dispostion as stupidity he was just guiless and unpretentious, if you watch him closley you will see that he is actually pretty quick on the up take in allot of things. People tend to attribute smarts and intelligence with being sly and cunning and even decietful; which Michaelangelo wasn't.

All in all classic toon Michaelangelo is the most likeable for me. He is probably the most humble and soft spoken version of him since he isn't cocky and obnoxious. And he just had a natural sweetness about him that I adored. Plus he was fun and very empathatic.

I'll get into new toon Mikey later

And I really will get to my thoughts on new toon Michaelangelo :evilgrin: he deserves to be discussed a little too, in detail.

I love character analisations and Michaelangelo gets so little of that on the forums:-? , I think its because people tend to think of him as just a goofy character thats just comic relief:( , and there is more to him than that. Hope this thread continues.

[Blondus]

I'd say Mikey from the old toon. Thats where he's most Mikey for me. Its probably the slightly naive, childish setting of the old toons. Though the mirage comic come in at a fair second.

Well, gotta love him anyways.

[MyNameSlash]

Old toon... and the movies. He's got that carefree lifestyle and "pizza rules!" mentality.

[zkarlette]

Im totally with you Sage Ninja I really like your opinion on Old toon Mike cause thats exactly how I feel about him and relate too, Thats why he has been my favorite since I was like eight

[Jester]

Movie Mikey followed closely by NT Mike. Because they are about the same: funny and still able to kick some serious shell!

[Turtle Dove]

Mikey was cool on the old toon,but the new toon he seems alot more carefree and happy. Plus he makes me laugh,so does RAph though.:lol: shhh

Mikey is more recent right now-collecting the comics and acting like a wise guy- Ahhh, my ideal guy

[Jo269976]

i'll give you a clue...

"PIZZA TIME!!!"

old version Mikey was the greatest, def. the funniest, lol i loved it when he called Shredder a tin can

[Sage Ninja]

To those here that have read the archie comics, exactly what is Michaelangelo like in that comic series? He is supposedly suppoed to be like his orginal toon counter part, but some one here mentioned that he was level headed in the archie comics. Was he a better fighter than his orginal toon counter-part?

[Weapon X]

He was sorta like his OT counterpart, but he was much more level headed, he joked and had fun, but knew when it was time to put a way the knock-knock jokes and take out the chucks.

[Sage Ninja]

Ok now it New Toon Michaelangelo's turn:evilgrin:

I have to say that i like this portrayal of him rather well. What is interesting about him is that he in most mediums has beeen portrayed as this easy going nice turtle that cracks tough situations and lightens the mood. And even though that still carries in this vesion Michaelangelo in the new toon can actually be quit antagnistic and cocky. This at first really bugged me about him and I started out not liking him all that much. But As the series progressed I started to to rather like this side of him a little, it gave him an edge that made him interesting. Also as I watched I noticed that Michaelangelo's cockiness and his talent for annoying his brothers where actaully his own passive aggresive way of reacting or retaliating to something that his annoyed him.

I'm serious look real closley next time you watch the new TMNT, you will see that many times when Mikey starts acting annoying its in reaction to something that was said or done eighther to him or in his presence. Its usually in reaction to something that has irked him (at least that is how i've percieved it). It is actually a good indicator to what Mikey is feeling at that moment by how hyper active and obnoxious he gets, and it shows that he isn't actually this uninpregenable fortress that nothing fazes him. Stuff actually do irratate/anger him and that is his way of realeasing those negative feelings...is by being a complete hyper active nusance, its his way of coping with his frustration I think. the more unpleasant the circumstnaces the more forth coming Mikey is to start "acting out" or saying somthing that is inappropiate.

A perfect example of this "annoying his brothers in reaction to something that they say or do to him" is: at the end of the Battle Nexus championship, he shows off his trophy and and this gets Raphael all pissy, and he point out that he only won on a technicality. This statment by Raphael really puts down Michaelangelo's achievement and hard work that he did just to get to the finals; its hard not to feel offended by such a statment and Mikey undoubltly was offended by this stament. But how does Mikey react? Instead of showing anger or throwing a punch in Raphael's face he turns around and cockily reminds Raphael that even if he did win on a technicallity he still beat him (Raphael). By saying this it shows that michaelangelo was irratated/angered by Raphael's comment and realiated by pushing Raphael's buttons and saying the one thing that would piss Raphael off ( If he hadn't been bothered by Raphael's comment he would have been indifferent to what Raph had said) Which made Raphael reataliate in typical fashion and he starts beating him up.

Now you would think that this would be a stupid thing to do on Mikey's part and that he must be a glutton for punishment. Not so really. What Michaelangelo was doing was trying to save face by turning what was said to put him in his plce back on that person and get a rise out of them. It is something along the lines of "yes you just pissed me off, but I'm not going to let you make me loose face and react to it, so I'm going to to piss you off and make you loose your cool so you look like the chump, not me" type of thing. Being able to incite a rise out of some one and make them loose control of them selves by showing thier irratation or anger kind of gives you the upper hand, and a sence of being in control. I bet Michaelangelo loves getting a rise out of people who annoy him, even if the result is him getting floored, he still has the satisfaction of getting them to that point.

So yeah to cut this short before I get into chapter two, this is my feeling and perceptive of New Toon Michaelangelo. I my analisys on his behavior on the money or not?

[Sage Ninja]

Mirage Michelangelo.

Very simply, he's the character with the most depth, flavor, and, well, character.

The media versions are, in my opinion, thinly-veiled stereotypes and cliches. Michelangelo in Mirage was never the comic relief gag character.

Now this maybe so to some degree, but I think the media has always tryed to portray Michaelangelo as the youngest of the turtles. So what they did was make him the "pop culture" turtle who makes all the refrences to all the teenager like fads that teens enjoy. Hence why in the classic cartoon and the movies that premiered in the eighties, he has this sterotypical "suffer dude" persona with the accessories attached to it: the skate boarding, the suffereing, the break dancing ect. All things that where perceived as cool and teemagers of that era glorified.

If the TMNT had premiered in the 60's or 70's i have no doubt that michaelangelo would be portrayed as a hippie or a disco lover.

Same reason why in the new toon Mikey is always making refrences to pop culture and throughing out cliche one liners such as "raise the roof" and has a sort of wanna-be-ghetto type of persona at times.

Michaelangelo in tv has always reflected the era that he is in and what is popular at that time. Its for that reason that Michaelangelo will probably be the most dated of the turtles when a few years from now when you watch re-runs of the TMNT you will be just a tad flinchy at his "out of date" lingo and intersts.

To those that have read the mirage comics, since it premiered in the 80's, did Michaelangelo have a suffer dude persona as well, or did the classic toon come up with that on their own?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Like I said with Raph, Mirage Version is the best.

[Chef Boyarquoa]

OT is the best mikey cuz thats the version ive grown up with and alwaze been used to, and hes soooo funny:lol: :lol: :lol:

[heretic888]

To those that have read the mirage comics, since it premiered in the 80's, did Michaelangelo have a suffer dude persona as well, or did the classic toon come up with that on their own?

No, he did not.

[Sage Ninja]

then what the hizell was Mirage Mike's personality like then?!:ohwell: D

Well any way even though I adored classic cartoon Michaelangelo one thing that bothered me in the old toon was the way they would make him the butt of the joke all the time by the end of every other episode. I mean sometimes it was funny but other times I remember being rather irratated by it.

Was this case also in the Mirage comics?

[BlueSonnet]

Haven't read the comics, well i've read some of the Archie ones back in the day but i don't recall looking after them enough to last long enough for me to remember them too good. So i can't really vote.

The way my vague memory looks at it i think the new toon Mike is the same as the old one, but then again they seem to be laying off the pizza craze a bit compared to the old one so i guess my votes steadying towards the old one (pizza so rocks).

That said isn't Michelango the same party dude in all of them would you say he's different in certain versions?

[Cure]

Can someone please explain the differences for me if it's not too much problem? I only know of movies, old and new toon, and still don't see that much of a difference.

[Goth]

i'd say the old toon for me, mainly because thats the first time i witnessed the tmnt and thats when he made the biggest impression on me :)

[Tigerfog]

I agree that the original Mirage Mikey was great, but for the sake of nostalgia...
I chose the old toon one. After all, he's the one who got me saying weird things like 'Cowabunga' or 'Dude' when I was a kid.

[Shreddette]

Well Sage Ninja, you sure made me see him in a newer light. Kinda makes me sad now, how he couldn't go out with humans and party and make friends.
He probably needed it the most.

You're right he's not really "stupid". Just more childlike in his ways, which isn't a bad thing, at all. In fact I find people like that the most fun to be with.

He was resourceful in battle too. Like the scene in Mean Machines when he sits on a box of TNT and waits for a demolition caterpillar(honestly I don't know what it is called, this whole recap is crude, I apologize) to come up behind him just on time to make it out of there.

[Sage Ninja]

Thankyou, I do believe that Classic toon Michaelangelo gets the brush off to often as being a silly sterotype, which I think isn't true. I just saw something deeper to him than just that when I was younger. And now, on my second viewing as an adult I'm seeing even more of that.:)

You're right he's not really "stupid". Just more childlike in his ways, which isn't a bad thing, at all. In fact I find people like that the most fun to be with.

Actually i wouldn't even go so far as to call it childish behavior...I think he was just a person who was very extraverted and socialble but but lacked the social conditioning one gains from interacting with people other than your family. People act accordingly to the people you are exposed with. Michaelangelo really needed to have interaction with others to get him to grow socially and mentally. They all did. But where the others compensated for this by aquiring niches, he was left to go off in several directions trying to find something he liked and was good at and made him overly entusicstic and excitable about things.

Can someone please explain the differences for me if it's not too much problem? I only know of movies, old and new toon, and still don't see that much of a difference.

the difference between what? The sublities of Michaelangelo's personalites as it varies from medium to medium? Can you be a little more spicific?

[trexmaster]

He was resourceful in battle too. Like the scene in Mean Machines when he sits on a box of TNT and waits for a demolition caterpillar(honestly I don't know what it is called, this whole recap is crude, I apologize) to come up behind him just on time to make it out of there.

Also, one time (can't name the episode, though), he disguised himself as Shredder to play a joke on his brothers, and when they attacked him thinking he really was Shredder, he put on quite a good fight against them.

[Sage Ninja]

um, If I recall correctly all he did was dodge a few half assed strikes before Leonardo tripped him. In fact until Leonardo acted all surpriced when they unmasked him as not being Shredder, I was under the empression that the others knew all along that is was really Michaelangelo and they where just messing around.

Classic toon Michaelangelo's biggest hinderence in battle was that occasionally he would klutz up, which even as a child i saw was done purely to add comedy, which at times bothered me. Especially since Michaelangelo was so adapted at doing other athletic activites that required coordination that he he exelled at, like skate boarding surfing ect, so I thought it was jarringly out of character that he would klutz up occasianlly in a fight; so he was hardly a klutz, so why did they have to depict him out of character during fights.:roll: Michaelangelo was a pretty good fighter (except against his brothers) in all other respects.

Its weird that the classic toon decided to have michaelangelo uncoordinated since tradtinally Michaelangelo is supposed to be athletic and agile in Mirage. Or is that just in the New toon that he's athletic and agile?

[zkarlette]

I think that Mike has always been that way but he doesn't feel the need to show it cause he prefers to take it easy and have fun instead of worring on being the best fighter ;
which ofcourse makes him look less of a good fighter ,but he seems to really show his great fighting skills when he's really needed or when he feels real danger for him or his brothers .......anyway he does have a great heart and thats what matters the most at least for me.....:)

[Sage Ninja]

What I find interesting about new toon Michaelangelo and Classic toon Michaelangelo, is that they both seem to have self esteem problems, but their approach is toltally different from each other on how they handle it.

I mean take the whole fighting thing, classic toon Mike is a good fighter but when he is scrutinised to closely by his brothers he seems to freak and klutz up. As if that kind of close attention from them makes him feel awkwrad. But when he has to he is always an able fighter and does well.

New toon Michaelangelo on the other hand seems to adore rubbing his fighting talents in his brothers faces and shows off, as if he wants them to notice him and pay attention to him, and seems to thrive on it, but when faced with an uncertain sitution new toon Michaelanglo tends to become timid and his low self esteem shows...until he becomes comfertable again and he becomes cocky once more.

I was once inclined to think that new toon Mikey had more self esteem than classic toon Mikey becauise of his some what cocky attitude, but after watching his behavior in the "Notes from the Under Ground" and "The Grudge Match", despite his normal behavior he seems to be pretty unsure of him self, which is odd given his blatant taltents in fighting...so why the bouts of insecurity?

[remix17]

New Toon. The writers streotyped and down-wrote Mikey too much in the Old Toon. He was always a pizza glutton or a slang machine. New Toon is still a fun-loving guy, but he has a vocabulary that doesn't always end in "o" if you'll allow me to exaggerate for a moment.

[Masked Ninja]

New toon Michaelangelo on the other hand seems to adore rubbing his fighting talents in his brothers faces and shows off, as if he wants them to notice him and pay attention to him, and seems to thrive on it, but when faced with an uncertain sitution new toon Michaelanglo tends to become timid and his low self esteem shows...until he becomes comfertable again and he becomes cocky once more.

I was once inclined to think that new toon Mikey had more self esteem than classic toon Mikey becauise of his some what cocky attitude, but after watching his behavior in the "Notes from the Under Ground" and "The Grudge Match", despite his normal behavior he seems to be pretty unsure of him self, which is odd given his blatant taltents in fighting...so why the bouts of insecurity?Those are some good points. Even if he's really not the youngest in a literal sense, he seems to have taken that role in the family. And the youngest (from what I've seen in my family... I'm actually the oldest :P) feels that the others all get more attention.

And in this particular family, what do we have? Leo is known for his skill, Raph for his recklessness and strength, and Don for his technical genius. Mikey has fighting talent; trained up he's likely able to surpass Leo. But he's not as dedicated to training... or perhaps he's afraid Leo will get upset if Mikey starts trespassing on his "territory." So he goes with his sense of humor, cracking jokes (good and bad) to make himself heard. Sure, he gets smacked by Raph a lot, but bad attention is better than no attention, right? The humor also comes in handy when he needs to relieve stress in dangerous situations. However, when it's too stressful, Mikey tends to break down completely and act like (what Raph might call) a wimp.

So when he does excel in something (like the Battle Nexus), Mikey gets cocky... probably to remind everyone for as long as he can that HE was the best at something. Perhaps he's reminding himself at the same time, I dunno. Even though I doubt he would have won if the tournament had gone smoothly, I'm glad to see he did. Though it made him an arrogant annoyance until the rematch, it probably did wonders for his self-esteem.

As for why he has such a low self-esteem? My best guess is: since his family often underestimates him, he underestimates himself. Though I get the feeling that Raph, being closer/more alike him than the other two, can see his potential... but perhaps some sibling-rivalry-like fear that Mikey will get "better" than him causes Raph to keep smacking him around to keep little bro in check. Just a thought.

Man, I've written another essay. Apologies all around. *sneaks away*

[Fledermaus]

Those are some good points. Even if he's really not the youngest in a literal sense, he seems to have taken that role in the family. And the youngest (from what I've seen in my family... I'm actually the oldest :P) feels that the others all get more attention.

And in this particular family, what do we have? Leo is known for his skill, Raph for his recklessness and strength, and Don for his technical genius. Mikey has fighting talent; trained up he's likely able to surpass Leo. But he's not as dedicated to training... or perhaps he's afraid Leo will get upset if Mikey starts trespassing on his "territory." So he goes with his sense of humor, cracking jokes (good and bad) to make himself heard. Sure, he gets smacked by Raph a lot, but bad attention is better than no attention, right? The humor also comes in handy when he needs to relieve stress in dangerous situations. However, when it's too stressful, Mikey tends to break down completely and act like (what Raph might call) a wimp.

So when he does excel in something (like the Battle Nexus), Mikey gets cocky... probably to remind everyone for as long as he can that HE was the best at something. Perhaps he's reminding himself at the same time, I dunno. Even though I doubt he would have won if the tournament had gone smoothly, I'm glad to see he did. Though it made him an arrogant annoyance until the rematch, it probably did wonders for his self-esteem.

As for why he has such a low self-esteem? My best guess is: since his family often underestimates him, he underestimates himself. Though I get the feeling that Raph, being closer/more alike him than the other two, can see his potential... but perhaps some sibling-rivalry-like fear that Mikey will get "better" than him causes Raph to keep smacking him around to keep little bro in check. Just a thought.

Man, I've written another essay. Apologies all around. *sneaks away*


I thought you made a lot of good points, as did Sage Ninja. No need to apologize, unless what you have to add contributes virtually nothing... so I apologize for this post. I'm all essayed out (for the moment), so I'll just say that I am really liking the discussion in this thread and am sorry I didn't pay more attention to it earlier.

Yes, I can definitely understand Raph smacking Mike around to remind him who's "superior"... :embarass:

[Sage Ninja]

And in this particular family, what do we have? Leo is known for his skill, Raph for his recklessness and strength, and Don for his technical genius. Mikey has fighting talent; trained up he's likely able to surpass Leo. But he's not as dedicated to training... or perhaps he's afraid Leo will get upset if Mikey starts trespassing on his "territory." So he goes with his sense of humor, cracking jokes (good and bad) to make himself heard. Sure, he gets smacked by Raph a lot, but bad attention is better than no attention, right? The humor also comes in handy when he needs to relieve stress in dangerous situations. However, when it's too stressful, Mikey tends to break down completely and act like (what Raph might call) a wimp.So when he does excel in something (like the Battle Nexus), Mikey gets cocky... probably to remind everyone for as long as he can that HE was the best at something. Perhaps he's reminding himself at the same time, I dunno. Even though I doubt he would have won if the tournament had gone smoothly, I'm glad to see he did. Though it made him an arrogant annoyance until the rematch, it probably did wonders for his self-esteem.

I've always viewed new toons Michaelangelo's cocky and in your face humour (which somtimes is just not even funny) as his despret attempt of creating a nich for himself. Not to mention his overly hyper active behavior is a reaction to his own discontentment. I think deep down Mikey is pretty irratated with the way things are in his family and he acts out passive aggresively as a result. I think every one: Leo, Don, and Raph are pretty comfertable with their positions in the whole team/family dynamic, except Mikey. Maybe he longs to to be something more than "just the funny guy".

I believe that is why he has created this fantacy alter ego "Turtle Titan" so that he can achieve that posation that he longs for of being a serious fighter than makes a difference. Not so much for him to be "a super hero" but for him to strike on his own and not be over shadowed by his brothers. But despit this he holds on to his "i'm the funny guy" idenity with a vegence and even feels threatened when it is ursuped. Notice how he was trying "everything" to come up with a great one liner in the garbage man episode when the others where succeeding in cracking jokes and he wasn't. He was making a complete ass of himself in order to hang onto his "idenity".

As for why he has such a low self-esteem? My best guess is: since his family often underestimates him, he underestimates himself. Though I get the feeling that Raph, being closer/more alike him than the other two, can see his potential... but perhaps some sibling-rivalry-like fear that Mikey will get "better" than him causes Raph to keep smacking him around to keep little bro in check. Just a thought.

Man, I've written another essay. Apologies all around. *sneaks away*

Actually I beleve that statement above applies more to classic toon Michaelangelo than New toon Mikey. I'll get into my thought on that in a minute...

I do believe that (maybe not on the surface) that his family actually do not think he is capable as a ninja, but don't tell him because they feel tht maybe he'd get a swelled head. But maybe they only know a small percentage of what he's capable of and Michaelangelo is holding out. Actually I think in the new toon, it is Leonardo not Raphael that trully awknowledges Michaelangelo's potencial as a warrior not Raphel. I got that distinct immpression in "the Grudge Match" with that little training sesion he gave him that he did. Actually out of the three of them, I'm inclined to think that leonardo respects Mikey the most as an indivdual than any one else. I don't believe Leonardo would get angry at Michaelangelo for trying to be as skilled as him, some how I think he'd welcome it to an extent; if for no other reason than to spar with a trully worthy partner and test his skills on him. Raphael on the other hand may infact have some kind of unconscience jealously toward Michaelangelo. And if that is infact the case, perhaps Michaelangelo is some what aware of it and that is why he never lashes back at Raphael when he wacks him. Maybe he is afraid what would happen if he allowed him self to get angry and smaked Raphael back. In eighther case Michaelangelo seems to supress him self.

In the classic toon I get th empression that Michaelangelo has an abhorance with competeing with brothers. There have been plenty of times in the series where Michaelangelo has demestrated better than averrage fighting abilty and resourcfulness in battle, and when the situation calls for it, he is also quite intelligent; yet he is never given any credit for it. However I think because his brothers underestimate him he in turn under estimates himself and that creates a psychological hindarnce of him not acting to his true potentical. I think the reason he is underestimated is because of his very nature and personailty. He has a natural easy going and very "human" way about him. Not very ninja like, so they brush him off; in other wordsw he is a bit to human for thier taste.

And I think classic toon Michaelangelo allows this because number one, I think he craves human contact and because he can't have it, the only interaction he has is with his brothers so in order to not upset them and mess up their little team dynamic be unconsciencley allows himself not to be as good as his brothers just so he doesn't offend them and he doesn't lose that "good" buddy buddy interaction he shares with them. How ever I think he is unhappy with this supressing of himself because you'll notce that he tends to stike out on his own alot with out his brothers, in I believe in a way to assert him self with out the shadow of his brothers prescence. You'll notce that often times he doesn't klutz up when he is acting all on his own?

In eighther case both versions of Michaelangelo seem to surpress their potenticail. Although pehaps for different reasons.

[zkarlette]

I guess even tho' he knows he could really achieve goals , he feels his selfsteem is not that great cause of all the comments and treatment from his brothers even tho' they like him they don't give him the respect he deserves or belive in him as they should so he always gets marked as the stupid one which he truly isnt, and you can see it really affects him emotionaly even if he tries to ignore it and brush it off .
his personality truly is a people's person so it must be pretty hard being almost alone with only four brothers that most of the time don't take him seriously and on top of that trying to hide on the shadows as a Ninja when what he truly wants is friends and having a normal life.

[Sage Ninja]

I guess even tho' he knows he could really achieve goals , he feels his selfsteem is not that great cause of all the comments and treatment from his brothers even tho' they like him they don't give him the respect he deserves or belive in him as they should so he always gets marked as the stupid one which he truly isnt

Yeah I can see that too, in the classic toon I can think of a few instances where the other turtles had to rely on Michaelangelo to save them, and they weren't at all confidant they he could succeed. I think it was in the episode "What's Michaelangelo Good For" where he had to save his brothers from a scinectist, and the scienctist actually makes a comment that Michaelangelo might be smart and the other turtles react with a preplexed "umm...no he aint'" sort of responce. There are other instanaces like that as well, and yeah you do see him get kinda mad about it.

In any event as far as new toon Michaelangelo is concerned I believe that, even though his brothers tend to mock him and think he is a dumbass, they do respect his opinnion when he gives it, and occasonally his judgement as well.

he always gets marked as the stupid one which he truly isnt., and you can see it really affects him emotionaly even if he tries to ignore it and brush it off

You know in the I like how Splinter treats his boys very equally and always trys to make them feel like they are capable (espcially in the new toon). But I was rather upest and irratated by Splinters remarks about Mikey's intellegence in Touch and Go. I mean if there is one thing I think Mikey has an issue over its his intelligence and his brothers kind of don't help that out to much with the way they think he is a doofus, and Splinter is trying motivate him by thoughing out a suble dig at him. I just didn't feel that was a good way to of approaching it.

[Rooish]

I thought maybe I'd bump this thread up again. Sage Ninja and I have been discussing reviving some of the older Michaelangelo discussions and maybe starting some new ones, and she mentioned this thread (which I think was before my time). I was going to vote that OT Mike was my favourite, but seeing as Image Mike hadn't got any votes, and I think he was pretty much equally great in his own way, I voted for that (although I think I just felt bad for Image Mike and still think OT Mike was the greateast).

So now I will rant for a while about Mike's different incarnations. ;)

Honestly, I wish I knew what people thought of Mirage Mike before his OT character was made. Are there any old geezers here who remember what they thought of Mirage Mike before the old toon came out? I didn't discover the old comics until abotu 1999 or 2000, and then I slowly realised just how little Mike fit into the tone of many of those comics. He was lighthearted and rambunctious from the beginning, and--especially in the first issue and the darker issues, like Return to New York and City at War--Mike didn't have much of a role. He was too carefree for the themes of those stories. But despite his carefree nature, he didn't seem to have much to say about all the violence they were doing. (I know he wasn't a pacifist in those comics; he sure sparred with Raph all the time, but he didn't really seem to have a personality that would fit the whole assassination thing). He really did seem like a fish out of water in those comics, and although he had some cute moments and a few bad-ass moments, I think that, for the most part, the writers didn't know what to do with him.

(I also usually try to call him "Mike" instead of "Mikey," because that's what he was nicknamed in the old--and even the new--Mirage comics, and I think it's a bit less patronizing.)

But I think with the OT, the writers invented one of the most attractive and engaging characters I've ever seen in a kid's show (or elsewhere). Sure, he talked slowly and was kind of spacey/flakey. Mike is pretty much universally flakey, though (Leonardo even said he was in a Mirage comic), so it's not a step down from his other characterizations. And he made up for it by being such a nice guy who wore his heart on his sleeve. The other Turtles were trying to accomplish something (well, Leo and Don were), but Mike just wanted to relax and enjoy life and socialize. And hell, I can sympathize with that. We all get caught up in the stress of everyday life, but who doesn't wish they could just take it easy?

And OT Mike didn't hide anything. When he was happy you knew it, when he was sad you knew it, when he was pissed off you knew it, when he was excited you knew it. But, because he was so laid-back, his emotions weren't exhausting to watch. I also sympathized with him because he, again, didn't really fit in at times. The others would roll their eyes and make fun of him and think he was stupid. When he had a good idea, the others would be like, "Woah, Mike had a good idea?" but I, as a kid, would be thinking, "Yeah, if you paid a bit more attention to him you'd realize he isn't an idiot." In contrast, in the NT, I find Mikey kind of hard to "read." When he has a good idea, it's not just the other Turtles who are suprised, but the writers and Mikey himself. It seems kind of artificial to me.

I don't dislike NT Mikey; he has his cute moments. In FF, that's pretty much all he has. But he's just so different from his laid-back, gentle old self. He can be whiny and cowardly and constantly panicking. He tries to bother and annoy his brothers, and I can't really sympathize with that, even if they respond in a worse way (like slapping him). It's when he's overlooked or picked on because he's the youngest and a bit of a space cadet that my heart really goes out to him, and that doesn't happen much in the NT. He just doesn't seem genuinely nice in the NT to me. Sometimes he wants to help people and do the right thing, but compared to the OT, where it was just a part of his nature, it seems a bit artificial in the NT. Like the writers are trying to give Mikey a redeeming feature. Then they say stuff like "Mikey has the most potential" and "Mikey can focus his chi best," and I'm thinking, okay, that's all good and well. He only does so once every dozen episodes or so. And in the meantime he's just being a pest and comic relief.

If you want a stupid Mikey, though, try the new movie. That movie managed to combine his new toon A.D.H.D. with his old toon dopiness. I think that maybe he was originally supposed to get a few character-building moments, or moments where he actually reflected on the sorry state of his family/life, but they were cut. :roll: In the other movies, Mikey was pretty damn cute and hilarious. I don't have much of a strong opinion on movies Mikeys, but they were fun and warm characters and they did their job, without being so emotionally engaging as OT Mikey.

Some of Mikey's truly great moments happened, however, in the Image comics (in my opinion, anyway). These comics have received their share of criticism, and while I think some of it is justified, I still think they were pretty great (although I never read the whole series). Mikey showed plenty of initiative and seemed to be on more equal terms with Leonardo, whom he spent a lot of time with in that series. Again, he was still a bit flakey (he fell asleep when he was supposed to be babysitting Shadow, and she got kidnapped), but then he had a kickass solo issue (with a truly great cover (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/image/08/08.htm)) where he rescued her. Raph got a good moment there, too, by finding her location in the first place. And who can forget him breaking up a fight between Leo and Raph by smacking their heads together? He made them stop fighting so they could have a burial for Donny, who was supposedly dead at that point (they only had a piece of his shell to bury). And then, in one of the sweetest scenes ever from the comics, Leo and Raph walk away from Donny's grave, intent on avenging him, and Mikey stays there and cries. Image Mikey was freaking great. :)

Despite my vote, though, I guess I still like OT Mikey best. He was the first and the sweetest Mike I was ever introduced to.

[ToTheNines]

I wanna vote for the Movie Mike, but I don't like his portrayl in the new one (Kelley did a great job tho) I love OT Mike, he's just so funny but he dosen't really try, he hardly ever cracks jokes, just his manerisms and sayings are gold. I like NT Mike alot too, he's pretty funny and an excellent fighter. Mirage Mike is also cool, he's probably the most "real" version of Mikey. I guess I'll vote for the movie version, but just the Robbie Rist one.

[Scandia]

I voted for the Old Toon. It gave us the Michelangelo that we are most familiar with and is most famous and distinctive.

"Cowabunga dude! Pizza!"

[VaughnMichael]

I voted image comics I can dream can't I? oh if he only had a brain dun dun dun dun dun!:lol:

[Spitfire]

I voted image comics I can dream can't I? oh if he only had a brain dun dun dun dun dun!:lol:

My thoughts exactly haha I loved Mikey in Image because he was an adult more then he's ever been. He didn't crack stupid jokes all the time and took himself seriously. He was also alot calmer and wrote stories.

[Time Mistress]

I love all versions but I voted for Mirage Mike. I think there's been some question here about makes that version different. And as someone who's read the comics I'll put in my two cents.

Mirage Mike is a very creative person, we just don't see this enough (if at all) in the other versions. He is the closest Tutle to his artist namesake and many of the best comic book stories about Mike involve that like issue #17 or the new volume of Tales, or the stuff in Image. He keeps a journal of his private thoughts in Vol. 2 like April does in the first movie and Vol. 1.

Mike is an excellent fighter. Part of Mike in movies/cartoons has always been the censorship problem of his nunchucks. There is no such problem in the comics. He fights just as well as his brothers, has no serious problems about killing, and is never a slacker, if anything the slacker in the comics is Raph (see The River). He loves to spar with Raph and picks fights with Triceratons in the TMNT in Space arc (in the toon it was cahnged to Raph).

Mike isn't a pop culture junkie. Sure he enjoys it but he's pretty equal with his brothers. He doesn't say dude. Mike reads comics, but so does Donatello. Mike plays video games, but Donatello invents them. Mike reads not just comics but books too, and they're not all horror or sci-fi. On occasion he's even prefered to finish reading a book when his bros were encouraging him to play video games with them. The Turtles watch TV and movies together most often, it's not just Mike alone all the time.

Mike is a joker, but no more so than Raph, it's like the two of them engage more in a prank wars than it just being Mike all the time, and sometimes it's Raph who starts it.

Mike can express legitimate anger like the barn scene that was cut from the first movie. He can be just as bad@ss as the others without cracking one joke. He does not act like "the youngest" as per Vol. 1,2, or Image.

Mirage Mike is a lover of animals (Klunk). He is the most adapatable Turtle to the human world. He is the most lighthearted Turtle and has the best sense of humor.

It's really just a matter of degree when it comes to other versions of Mike vs. Mirage. He's been hampered by censorship when it comes to his fighting abilities, his sense of humor and lightheated personality have been magnified sometimes to an almost to the point of annoying. His love of literature has been narrowed to just comics pretty much. His creative side is almost non-existant but he's been make a pop culture lover instead. And the recent trend of enphasizing Turlte birth order has made his the "baby" of the family. Even his nickname sound younger - Mikey instead of Mike.

So what you end up with is a very lovable, very relatable to kids, but often very unbalanced version of Michaelangelo for some of the other TMNT mediums. A lot of what makes Mike Mike is there, but emphasis on certain qualities and de-emphasis on others when Mirage doesn't do that creates the confusion. It's a bit like the difference between OT Raph and other versions of Raph, only a lot more subtle. Vol. 4 and the new Tales comic, seem to be addressing part of the Mike discrepancy, but I'm not sure if it helps or hurts Mike's character.

This isn't meant to say Mirage Mike is better than any other version of Mike, cause that's all a matter of opinion and I love Mike no matter what, but for those who don't know Mirage Mike well or at all, I offer what I can as a comic book fan. I haven't read Image, I almost want to because of how great Mike sounds in it, but I really hate what happens to the other 3.

[TheAnimatedSeries]

Movie Mikey showed his immaturity in things like changing the subject when Don was talking about Splinter ("pizza dudes got thirty seconds"), and making clever jokes, opposed to just having him fall down or say something like "dudeular maximum, mondo dude action, bro!" or have him talk about videogames like some previous and future incarnations sometimes did (not those words exactly, but close enough). I voted for Movies Michaelangelo because he is funny and not annoying and I really, really like him alot. Hes great. Hes a great guy and anyone would be lucky to get with him.

[Leogeddon]

i personally loved the 87 series mikey the best, in there did they maximize his surfer look. In the movies, would be the next one except the new TMNT one where i personally think they made him too small. He needed a little more fat. =3

[Rooish]

Hahaha, I thought he was a little surprisingly small in the new movie, too. I mean, I can see what they were trying to do: make him one of those young, ridiculously skinny kind-of-pubescent teenage guys. (Well, he wasn't ridiculously skinny, but he was skinnier than the others). I always imagined him as short and stocky. Meh.

[The Shelf]

I think Time Mistress sums up Mirage Mike really well. I voted for Mirage Mike because he's really the only one that I've been able to take seriously, although I haven't read Image or Archie to make a valid comparison with those versions. The movie Mikes are funny, but as I said, I just can't take them seriously, and I've just never been a fan of the toon Mikes.

[Sage Ninja]

I thought maybe I'd bump this thread up again. Sage Ninja and I have been discussing reviving some of the older Michaelangelo discussions and maybe starting some new ones, and she mentioned this thread (which I think was before my time). I was going to vote that OT Mike was my favourite, but seeing as Image Mike hadn't got any votes, and I think he was pretty much equally great in his own way, I voted for that (although I think I just felt bad for Image Mike and still think OT Mike was the greateast).

So now I will rant for a while about Mike's different incarnations. ;)

Honestly, I wish I knew what people thought of Mirage Mike before his OT character was made. Are there any old geezers here who remember what they thought of Mirage Mike before the old toon came out? I didn't discover the old comics until abotu 1999 or 2000, and then I slowly realised just how little Mike fit into the tone of many of those comics. He was lighthearted and rambunctious from the beginning, and--especially in the first issue and the darker issues, like Return to New York and City at War--Mike didn't have much of a role. He was too carefree for the themes of those stories. But despite his carefree nature, he didn't seem to have much to say about all the violence they were doing. (I know he wasn't a pacifist in those comics; he sure sparred with Raph all the time, but he didn't really seem to have a personality that would fit the whole assassination thing). He really did seem like a fish out of water in those comics, and although he had some cute moments and a few bad-ass moments, I think that, for the most part, the writers didn't know what to do with him.

I have never read the Mirage comics but from my experience I feel in most of the "serious" mediums of the TMNT franchise that Michaelangelo has gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to character development and involvement in the story. Many times It feels like he is detached from the story and is just there to act as a counter balance to the other three turtles to off set their darker personalites. Which is well and fine, I don't mind a a group of characters that has one character that is yin to the other characters yang, but the way it is done in most serious mediums just makes him clash to a degree with the whole set up of the tone. And I think it started out in the orginal comic, I get the strong impression that the creators just didn't know how to write for Michaelangelo, and its pretty obvious how he fades in the back ground during many dark stroy arcs, They set up his personality but didn't seem to know how to write for him to incorporate him in the proggression of the plot. He comes off as just a supporting character to the bigger characters of Leo, Don, and Raph, and although fans may say that it makes sence that Michaelangelo should just be a supporting character or a foil to his brothers I think that its disservice to his character and his fans. He is one of the main characters and iot should be written to give all four equal dominian that fits with their personality, and it has been proven that it can be done because from what I hear the Image series gave Michaelangelo a stronger role and more presence which didn't take away from his brother roles.

What upsets me is that Most "serious" mediums try to hard to make him the funny guy or the guy that would appeal to the kiddies which results very often in shoddy writting with his character. Instead of developing they writters seem to rely on flashy comedic antics to sell his character and like Rooish said rather than showing Mikey distributing special characteristics and skills that is he is said to posses it is left to only vague refrences. And due to his flashy off the wall persona I've noticed that during more serious moments in the 2k3 series Mikey doesn't say much and falls into the back ground, Its like the writters don't know how to write Mikey reacting to serious moments unless its to say something off the wall to break up the tension (which could be inappropiate) or they just leave him alone and have him say nothing.

I also usually try to call him "Mike" instead of "Mikey," because that's what he was nicknamed in the old--and even the new--Mirage comics, and I think it's a bit less patronizing.

I have to admit that i'm not to found of the nick name "Mikey" as well. I prefer his full name because it sounds elequent and strong. :D But if it had to be shortened I much prefere "Mike" to "Mikey". Mikey just sounds babish. Although how to you find "Mikey" patronizing Rooish? :-?


But I think with the OT, the writers invented one of the most attractive and engaging characters I've ever seen in a kid's show (or elsewhere). Sure, he talked slowly and was kind of spacey/flakey. Mike is pretty much universally flakey, though (Leonardo even said he was in a Mirage comic), so it's not a step down from his other characterizations. And he made up for it by being such a nice guy who wore his heart on his sleeve. The other Turtles were trying to accomplish something (well, Leo and Don were), but Mike just wanted to relax and enjoy life and socialize. And hell, I can sympathize with that. We all get caught up in the stress of everyday life, but who doesn't wish they could just take it easy?

And OT Mike didn't hide anything. When he was happy you knew it, when he was sad you knew it, when he was pissed off you knew it, when he was excited you knew it. But, because he was so laid-back, his emotions weren't exhausting to watch. I also sympathized with him because he, again, didn't really fit in at times. The others would roll their eyes and make fun of him and think he was stupid. When he had a good idea, the others would be like, "Woah, Mike had a good idea?" but I, as a kid, would be thinking, "Yeah, if you paid a bit more attention to him you'd realize he isn't an idiot." In contrast, in the NT, I find Mikey kind of hard to "read." When he has a good idea, it's not just the other Turtles who are suprised, but the writers and Mikey himself. It seems kind of artificial to me.

I really, really like OT Michaelangelo, and I think he is some what set apart from the more serious versions of Michaelangelo in the sence that, I don't get the "I'm the baby of the group" vibe off of him in this medium of TMNT. Most mediums seem to try to set Michaelangelo up as the baby of the group by giving him characteristics of the youngest, like annoying your older siblings and being some what vulnerable and helpless which sort of puts him in a less than equal position to the other turtles. In the classic toon he's not exactly immature just more into indulging fun stuff and he never purposely tries to annoy the other turtles. I get the impression that Michaelangelo in the old toon is about the same age as every one else which I think puts him on more equal grounds with the other turtles, he's not the youngest that needs to be helped out all the time.

What I like about OT Mike is that his humourous side wasn't forced. He doesn't try to be the funny guy and his mostly funny momemts are do to his mannerisms. And I don't think Michaelangelo in the old toon was flakey I think his priorites where just diffirent from the other turtles and most of his "flakey" momets where just products of being a teenager. In fact I don't even find him all that dumb, it seemed like in the old toon Michaelangelo's moments of being "dumb" where more like plot devices and even came off forced on occassion. But what I really appriciated about his character is that the show let him progress with the story. When Red Sky came along and the the plots and turtles became more serious, so did he. The writters didn't try to play him down and or make him more wacky to off set the more serious tone the show had taken to "balance things out". The writters actually treat his character with respect and realized he was just as much apart of the TMNt as the three turtles and let het evelove and and toughen up just like the other turtles. I'm not to found of Red Sky but at least when the show made the turn around they let Michaelangelo progress (with out changing his over all personality) with it instead forceing him to be the clown and comic relief. Which more than more "serious" and "dark" versions of TMNT has given him.

[Scandia]

I do like the nickname Mikey better. There are too many Mikes out there. And Mikey shows that he's the youngest.

I think a reason why in the OT Michelangelo did not stand out as being the baby of the group could be because in the very old and now out of date statistics, Michelangelo was actually second oldest. The statistics were in the toys released for the OT- but it was never stated in the OT who was 2nd, 3rd, and youngest.

Mikey does very much seem like a supportive character in the movies. But the other media do not neglect him as much. The OT focuses on him. The NT has quite a few Michelangelo episodes- and Fast Forward is rather Mikey-centered. And he gets to be Shadow's favorite uncle in Mirage. Archie I have not read enough, but it does not seem to be neglecting him either.

[Bad Guys Lover]

My favorite Mikey is from the new toon! :D A 'party dude' on a whole new level. ;)

[Rooish]

I wonder why it is that there's this sudden obsession with age order amongst the TMNT. I've gotten pretty into it, too ... I always rank them from oldest to youngest as Leo, Don, Raph, then Mike. But what's with that? Maybe Peter or Kevin said there was an age order at one point, but it doesn't really get mentioned in the comics. In most versions the Turtles mutate at the same time and no one knows in what order the nonmutated baby Turtles were born. If they are actual brothers from the same clutch, they would have all hatched within the same day or two, wouldn't they? So what is the big deal with birth order? I think people all just relate better to siblings born in a particular order, instead of quadruplets. :) I've also noticed a growing trend amongst fans to emphasize each Turtles' individual physical differences, when in the comics they usually look the same. I wonder why?

Anyway, back on topic:

I have never read the Mirage comics but from my experience I feel in most of the "serious" mediums of the TMNT franchise that Michaelangelo has gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to character development and involvement in the story. Many times It feels like he is detached from the story and is just there to act as a counter balance to the other three turtles to off set their darker personalites.

Although most of the Mirage comics were at least a little goofy and not overwhelmed by dark, I'd say that's pretty accurate. Especially when Raph became less playful and more ... insane?

I get the strong impression that the creators just didn't know how to write for Michaelangelo, and its pretty obvious how he fades in the back ground during many dark stroy arcs, They set up his personality but didn't seem to know how to write for him to incorporate him in the proggression of the plot.

I wonder what Michelangelo actually would act like in a serious, dark situation, seeing as he just fades to the background in the comics, or just steadily helps out without much comment? I mean, he wasn't a useless fighter in the comics, but he didn't have much to say during a dark moment. But maybe that's what someone as happy and light as Mikey would do in a dark situation: just go along with it and let the darker characters work it out. Maybe he just doesn't really like to think about it?

I hear the Image series gave Michaelangelo a stronger role and more presence which didn't take away from his brother roles.

Although the Image comics made all the Turtles a little harder than I'm used to, it really did give each Turtle a chance to shine. And it gave them all stronger personalities. Mike and Raph really shone, but we got to see into Leo's mind, too, which was cool. I dunno about Don ... he got turned into a cyborg and I had trouble identifying with him anymore. But Image is where Mikey got published as a writer, I believe. And he got a girlfriend. :roll:

I have to admit that i'm not to found of the nick name "Mikey" as well. I prefer his full name because it sounds elequent and strong. :D But if it had to be shortened I much prefere "Mike" to "Mikey". Mikey just sounds babish. Although how to you find "Mikey" patronizing Rooish? :-?

Well, I don't know if "patronizing" was the right term, but it does seem babyish. It kind of annoys me when his brothers call him "Mikey," I mean they're this badass fighting team and it just makes Mike seem like ... well, the baby. In the same vein, I don't like "Donny" too much either, or (not that it's really used), "Raphie." (Ugh!)

Most mediums seem to try to set Michaelangelo up as the baby of the group by giving him characteristics of the youngest, like annoying your older siblings and being some what vulnerable and helpless which sort of puts him in a less than equal position to the other turtles.

Yeah. If he has to be the baby of the group, I wish it could be in a playful optimistic way and not in an annoying pestering foolish way. But oh well.

What I like about OT Mike is that his humourous side wasn't forced.

Good point; he was naturally funny. Granted, it was still often at his expense ...

[Sage Ninja]

I don't dislike NT Mikey; he has his cute moments. In FF, that's pretty much all he has. But he's just so different from his laid-back, gentle old self. He can be whiny and cowardly and constantly panicking. He tries to bother and annoy his brothers, and I can't really sympathize with that, even if they respond in a worse way (like slapping him). It's when he's overlooked or picked on because he's the youngest and a bit of a space cadet that my heart really goes out to him, and that doesn't happen much in the NT. (…)Like the writers are trying to give Mikey a redeeming feature. Then they say stuff like "Mikey has the most potential" and "Mikey can focus his chi best," and I'm thinking, okay, that's all good and well. He only does so once every dozen episodes or so. And in the meantime he's just being a pest and comic relief.

Pfft, 2k3 Mikey is definitely a space cadet just like he was in the OT but some times he does things that are so stupid/impulsive I can’t actually feel any sympathy for him. Hur Hur I’m going to hide in side a PUNCHING BAG! Yeah…nothing can happen to you inside of there you f*cking retard! If you’re that stupid you get no sympathy.

But seriously though…I love all forms of Michelangelo he just has so much charisma that it’s infectious. However even though I like NT Mike when I'm honest with my self he isn't my favorite portrayal of him. And really it’s the way that he is written at times that I have the most problem with. The writers make Michelangelo in the new toon too show off brash and cocky and at times contradictory. There are times when I have a real difficult time watching him because I cringe so much. You are right they do not always write Michelangelo as much of a nice guy but more of that sort of character that acts full of him self and cocky and then loses face when he shown to be “not all that”. I some times don't get what the writers are doing with his character or what as the viewer I'm supposed to be getting with Mikey's character. I cringe every time Mikey starts to boast and he gets cocky because I know at he is going to do something that’s going to humble him, or make him look like an ass. There are times when I’m scared that when he is going off on one of his "I'm so great and your not" tangents that one of his brothers are going to throw his past screw-up back at him and be like: “no, your not all that great because you can’t do this with out screwing up or we are always bailing you out” and putting him in his place. But I guess they don’t because they love him. It’s like why do the writers make him so full of him self? What sort of reaction are they trying to get from us in that? Are we supposed to dislike him for it? Because when they do make him obnoxious and boastful it doesn’t make you feel very sympathetic or caring toward him. Like in the Grudge Match episode when his boasting finally came back to bite him in the worst way and his family abandoned him. Where we supposed to feel sorry for him or where we supposed to feel satisfied that Mikey was finally going to get his come uppance for rubbing every ones face in his battle nexus championship for so long? He’s one of the main characters so you would think the writers would want the audience to like him and care for him. But at times he seems more like the token “pay off ‘’ character. You know one of those token obnoxious guys who are full of himself but make a jerk of himself and the audience cheers at his discomfort. Vernon Fenwick from the old toon was one of those types of characters that become comedic fodder. It’s almost like the point of his character is just to learn harsh lessons.

He just doesn't seem genuinely nice in the NT to me. Sometimes he wants to help people and do the right thing, but compared to the OT, where it was just a part of his nature, it seems a bit artificial in the NT.

Yeah…that is one thing about 2k3 Mike that sets him apart from all his other incarnations. He is the only one that isn’t blatantly nice (although he generally is). Traditionally all the other Michelangelo’s in the multi universe are benignly playful and mischievous and warm sociable beings with big hearts. In the NT Mikey isn’t so easily likeable and is more antagonistic and aggressive seems to delight in getting a rise out of the people around him for kicks. And even though he is generally nice he can be genuinely rude and even spiteful on occasion. And I don’t know if any one has noticed this but 2k3 Mikey can be manipulative as well. You don’t always know what’s going on inside that head of his and most would say “not much” but he seems pretty capable of manipulating people’s emotions and getting them to do or react in ways that benefit him. He did it to Raphael in the Big Brawl and he does it constantly to others. Its one of his main battle tactics if you notice to wear his opponent out by riling him up or messing with his head; I just get the impression that, if Mikey really wanted to too he could engineer a very volatile situation with people and then just as easily diffuse it. It’s an interesting characteristic that is unique to him because I don’t detect this sort of deviousness in other Michelangelo characters and I think it’s a rather cool one. It’s for this reason that I could see 2k3 Mikey actually being malicious and mean if he was ever pushed far enough, which sort of adds a whole other dimension to his character. All other Michaelangelo’s even my beloved OT Michaelangelo are all so nice and innocent that its hard to imagine those versions of him playing head games or being spiteful. But with 2k3 Mikey you can.