TMNT, The "R"-rated version.

[Weapon X]

I in issue #9 of Comic Scene with an interview with Eastman and Laird in which they were talking about the upcoming film, Laird was quoted with saying the first script was heading toward an "R' rating but Laird and co-creator Eastman felt a large portion of the heroes audience would have been turned away at the theater doors. It pretty much goes on to say that they are now going for a "PG-13" rating that can still allow a great deal of action and violence, and doesn't need to "gross" and "gory" to the point of needing an "R" rating. This was all the information I ever knew on the subject of the "Original "R" rating", until now.

Hopefully there's a couple people yet to know this, and here is another bit of evidence of it.

"Director Steve Barron wanted the film to closely follow the comic. He intended to make the film dark and gritty. The film would open with April being raped (not just mugged) and being saved by the Turtles. The Turtles were to swear, drink beer, and be more rude, and there would be more killings. However, the producers thought that with the ongoing cartoon version of the franchise, they should make the film more children-friendly. Much of the original violence was cut and new shots were filmed to tone the movie down."

[Jester]

I thought TMNT was Pre-PG13....*shrugs*

[GK Punk]

Honestly, I'm GLAD it didn't turn out that way. One of the things that makes that movie so watchable even to this day is the fact that it's such a great balance of the Darkness of the Mirage Studios comics and the Cartoon.

[Jester]

True, but I'd like to see some of the action put back in...maybe not the swearing and booze...

[GK Punk]

Or a Rape scene.there's no need for that.

[Jester]

Oh yeah...I kind blocked that from memory....thanks GK....

[Weapon X]

This quote "Much of the original violence was cut and new shots were filmed to tone the movie down" just makes the want of a SE even that more larger for the mere fact that some of this survived(That is to say that any was filmed, which is implied) I'd only want to see the gritty more violent stuff, mybe a little booze drinking just for the fun of it, but nothing on the rape scene, that is definatly something not to want, but it is somthing to think about......ohhhh wait, scratch that.:P

[d_osborn]

not THAT much was cut from the film. as for earlier drafts of the screenplay, i have no idea. i've been searching for early drafts for years.

[Jester]

There's more than you think....X's got a shooting script...

[Coola Yagami]

well.... maybe the rape scene would be going too far... but at least let the bad guys get far enough to show the screen-viewers some Paige Turco boob before the TMNT bust in and save the day....

[Weapon X]

It was Judith Hoag's April that your talking about, Turco played April in TMNT 2 and 3.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I'm not sure even the Mirage-comics were dark enough to have a rape scene. That would be going too far. A mirage-perfect movie would be upper PG-13 rather than R

[Weapon X]

I agree, a rape scene just seems really out of place in a TMNT comic or movie, by all means I love it gritty, but not that gritty.

[Coola Yagami]

Ah yeah, got my Aprils mixed up. Well yeah, no actual rape scene.. not in a TMNT movie.. but at least let the bad guys rip her blouse open before the TMNT save her....

[Sewer Bull]

but at least let the bad guys rip her blouse open before the TMNT save her....

...

Dreamer :P

[Buslady]

They can still make it more adult level without getting corny like TMNT2. With a PG13, they can pull it off. I'm gonna hold faith in them. They seem to wanna be careful about how they go about this project. They can still say bad words but no really bad bad stuff...f-word, s-word....stuff like crap, damn(raph's best!), and junk like that. Bring on the beeer! At least for Raph..he likes that stuff. I kinda think it'd be funny a buzzed Raph on screen trying to fight drunk against Leo..now that'd make him look like a fool.
April doesnt need to be raped, mugged and seriously hurt would work enough.

[cowabunga14]

Well, that's intrestin'. I didn't know April was orginally gonna be raped. I'm glad they left that out personally. I wouldn't like to see the Turtles drunk. It's somethin' doesn't really go with 'em and it would be ironic cuz the Turtles were in this drug free cartoon and X-Entertainment has an article on it. Y'all should read it if you get a chance.

[Jester]

I just realized....how many super hero movies nowadays have PG-13 ratings?

[Ryona]

They can still make it more adult level without getting corny like TMNT2. With a PG13, they can pull it off. I'm gonna hold faith in them. They seem to wanna be careful about how they go about this project. They can still say bad words but no really bad bad stuff...f-word, s-word....stuff like crap, damn(raph's best!), and junk like that. Bring on the beeer! At least for Raph..he likes that stuff. I kinda think it'd be funny a buzzed Raph on screen trying to fight drunk against Leo..now that'd make him look like a fool.
April doesnt need to be raped, mugged and seriously hurt would work enough.

I agree. With a rating like PG13, they can still make it pretty adult.
We can have Raph drinking beer and maybe Splinter smoking a bong pipe. That would be quite the sight. :lol:
Oh, and we can have Leo carrying a classic Japanese sake bottle on his belt. He can take swigs from it occationaly. :D

Seriously, yeah, we do need the Mirage elements that are constantly skipped out on in every other TMNT incarnation. Swearing, blood, and booze.

[Jester]

There was booze in the Mirage incarnation? *shrugs*

And Splinter smoking a bong? Yeah...I could see that....NOT!

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I just realized....how many super hero movies nowadays have PG-13 ratings?

Most of them, actually.

But, a good TMNT movie would really be more set-up like a Martial-Arts film than a superhero one. That's why the first one was so good (Golden Harvest usually makes Kung-Fu movies), the format that live-action superhero films use IMO would really not work for TMNT.

And, I second Ryona's "Leo's sake" idea, but not the "Splinter's bong" idea.

[Ryona]

And Splinter smoking a bong? Yeah...I could see that....NOT!
And, I second Ryona's "Leo's sake" idea, but not the "Splinter's bong" idea.

*giggles hystaricly* :lol:


Anyway, yeah, I can see Leo carrying one of these on his belt.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/Ryou-chan4ever/Sakegourd.jpg




Oh, and Raph can carry one of these.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7858/flask2wn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Weapon X]

There was booze in the Mirage incarnation? *shrugs*

Yeah, in fact, one instance was in Mirage Vol. 1 #3, after getting settled in Aprils apartment, one of the Turtles asks If she has any beer.

[Jester]

Any others?

[Weapon X]

Not off the top of my head, but there has been others, and not just asking for a beer, actual drinking of it.

Another thing that you would never see outside the Mirage universe is something like what happened to Raph in Vol. 1 #4 where after falling off the roof while fighting the vengeful Foot, he swings on a cloths line through a window and happens upon a young couple about to have sex, and Raph has a bra on his head too.

[Ryona]

They drank beer with Renet and Cerberus when they were in that tavern.


Oh, and as for what Donnie would carry. I see him as mainly a coffee drinker.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8649/coffeeflask7fd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



And for Mikey, this would be his top choice.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1844/minutemaidorangejuice9jm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Coola Yagami]

Well, theTMNT themselves don't have to swear, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be all goody-goody. I mean in the first TMNT movie Casey could have had a brew or 2, and the Foot, being mostly street thugs, could have let loose a few 4-letter words as they were getting their asses handed to them by the TMNT...

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Not off the top of my head, but there has been others, and not just asking for a beer, actual drinking of it.

Well, Raph drank something at the Tricereton bar.

Another thing that you would never see outside the Mirage universe is something like what happened to Raph in Vol. 1 #4 where after falling off the roof while fighting the vengeful Foot, he swings on a cloths line through a window and happens upon a young couple about to have sex, and Raph has a bra on his head too.

Yeah, that was GREAT! I wish they'd find some way to do that scene outside the comics.

[Weapon X]

Speaking of the whole "Violence" thing, ever notice how in the first movie whenever Leo appears to be slashing at someone there isn't any blood effect, like during the apartment battle when Casey breaks in you can see Leo in the background hitting a Foot in the neck area with his sword, eh maybe it was the flat end, but still, maybe that was something toned down.
Also during the rooftop battle at the end, when Leo is rolling around dodging hits, he comes up and swings his swords under the Foots legs, I did a frame by frame and swear it's a clean cut on the Foots legs......I don't know...*shrugs*

[Ryona]

Also, Leo slashed at Shredder's arm, but we didn't see blood.

That's always been the crappy thing about Leo. He's got these weapons that produce gory, bloody damage on his oponents, yet in almost every incarnation, Leo's slashing and stabbing has to be cut out. It's really not fair. They might as well give Leo a pair of steel pipes or a grappling hook like they did with Mikey instead of his swords. :tgrumble:

[Fledermaus]

An April rape would have been gratuitous and I'm glad that wasn't in the movie. Stuff like torture and sorrow... it needs to be integral to the plot, otherwise it gets melodramatic or eye-candy oriented and really makes it hard to take the movie seriously. You want eye candy, go watch Sin City or Oldboy. Incest, sex, and torture galore in the latter. I agree, turtles should be more martial-arts oriented. I personally thought all the movies, even the first one, were rather silly and could have had stronger storylines and character... Oh well.

As for alcohol, I guess the Lions and Lambs group would get ecstatic over Raph setting a bad example for teens. And I doubt Leo would drink alcohol. He's ramrod straight. The only liquids he'd drink would be water, milk, juice, and tea. I suspect he'd be a heavy green tea drinker (possibly genmai-cha).

Also, Leo has blades. What, does he use the butt of the swords to defeat his opponents? Blades cut. They are lethal, and I personally think they're teaching kids the wrong lesson. If you get something razor sharp and strike someone with it, they'll probably bleed. (you see more blood on the PowerPuff girls, honestly...)

[Weapon X]

Leo cuts him twice, once on the back and then on his right arm, you cant see the arm wound really good at all, but I took a cap from behind and If you look at his right shoulder blade, it appears that there is blood and not just cloth hanging over or something.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/6806/shredderbleeding2eq.jpg

[Fledermaus]

Leo cuts him twice, once on the back and then on his right arm, you cant see the arm wound really good at all, but I took a cap from behind and If you look at his right shoulder blade, it appears that there is blood and not just cloth hanging over or something.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/6806/shredderbleeding2eq.jpg

All right.

I still think the movies were silly.;) It is my prayer that Kevin Munroe won't overload the new movie with farts and bathroom jokes. I want more action, more beautifully choreographed and animated ninjutsu. Darkness, stealth, grace.

As for bloooooood, I'm mostly venting about blood in the new show (sorry I didn't specify). At the moment, I guess things are dark enough with Leo going all... drill sargeant on everyone.

[Ryona]

I doubt Leo would drink alcohol. He's ramrod straight. The only liquids he'd drink would be water, milk, juice, and tea.


I would a have to disagree. First off, he (as well as the others) have drank alcohol in the Mirage comics. Second, I see Leo as the type to part take on Japan's traditional alcoholic drink. In Japan, Sake holds great respect and is even a part of many respected and holy traditions and ceremonies.

[Weapon X]

All right.

I still think the movies were silly.;) It is my prayer that Kevin Munroe won't overload the new movie with farts and bathroom jokes. I want more action, more beautifully choreographed and animated ninjutsu. Darkness, stealth, grace.

As for bloooooood, I'm mostly venting about blood in the new show (sorry I didn't specify). At the moment, I guess things are dark enough with Leo going all... drill sargeant on everyone.

:P

My post was a reply to Ryo's about how there is no blood seen after Shredder is cut, It was directed toward you.

So much confusion. ;)

[Fledermaus]

I would a have to disagree. First off, he (as well as the others) have drank alcohol in the Mirage comics. Second, I see Leo as the type to part take on Japan's traditional alcoholic drink. In Japan, Sake holds great respect and is even a part of many respected and holy traditions and ceremonies.

Well, there's practically a ceremony for everything in Japan.:P

Difference in opinion. I haven't been able to read much of the comics. I've only seen the movies and the show, so I interpret the Leo character based on that and from what I know about highly disciplined individuals. Alcohol can be a distraction, so if Leo did drink, I don't think it would be a frequent ritual. Unless there is a ceremony in which he partakes that has 100 memorized steps and formalities. Damn. Poor guy probably can't even use the crapper without going through the proper formalities.

Okay, sorry. :D

EDIT: Yes, we are all confused...

[DSWBandit]

Alright, alright. First, remember that most of the TMNT's fans are little kids. No offense. The second movie was more appealing to such, but I liked the 1st movie more. They removed Raph and replaced him with some guy who just mocks everything in the 2nd one.

Now, on this whole "new movie" thing... O.o' Whoa. That's a little "extreme". Indeed, the Turtles in "reality" would definately be more Ninja-like and darker (said Leo's katana's earlier not doing much damage), but I couldN'T see any of that happening in a TMNT movie. Except the sweat, booze, blood and da mud. And leave almost all the joking to Mikey, because the others don't seem like the type unless it's Donnie or one of Raph's 'sick-minded' jokes.

I heard that the latest Harry Potter movie was rated PG-13, so an up-to-date TMNT movie would probably run the same. I'm looking forward to it ALOT and expect great things.. As long as they don't overdo it. >.>

Oh, and as far as "Leo's blades", he bought them in the Kid's Section. ;) He can still kick butt with them though. Now imagine the day when he gets the real thing....

EDIT: I get ahead of myself too much.

[Turtle Dove]

I in issue #9 of Comic Scene with an interview with Eastman and Laird in which they were talking about the upcoming film, Laird was quoted with saying the first script was heading toward an "R' rating but Laird and co-creator Eastman felt a large portion of the heroes audience would have been turned away at the theater doors. It pretty much goes on to say that they are now going for a "PG-13" rating that can still allow a great deal of action and violence, and doesn't need to "gross" and "gory" to the point of needing an "R" rating. This was all the information I ever knew on the subject of the "Original "R" rating", until now.

Hopefully there's a couple people yet to know this, and here is another bit of evidence of it.

"Director Steve Barron wanted the film to closely follow the comic. He intended to make the film dark and gritty. The film would open with April being raped (not just mugged) and being saved by the Turtles. The Turtles were to swear, drink beer, and be more rude, and there would be more killings. However, the producers thought that with the ongoing cartoon version of the franchise, they should make the film more children-friendly. Much of the original violence was cut and new shots were filmed to tone the movie down."

uhhh I don't approve of April raped and turtles cussing and drinking beer- BIG turn off for me! These are heros and look gentle and have more respect. Making them drink and stuff will currport and destory their image and parents will be quick to get it canceled

[Ryona]

Oh, come on, Mikey's girl. Loosen up. They're big boys. ;)

[Weapon X]

uhhh I don't approve of April raped and turtles cussing and drinking beer- BIG turn off for me! These are heros and look gentle and have more respect. Making them drink and stuff will currport and destory their image and parents will be quick to get it canceled

It's not like it was the TMNT that were to rape April, and whats getting cancelled?, the cartoon, yeah because they would probably have them drinking beer and cuss on the Toon, good move for them. :roll: This whole thing was what Steve Barron(Director of the first movie) wanted it to be, a straight up Mirage movie.

Stuff like this makes me love Mirage Vol. 1, so much because the TMNT were so much different then what a lot of people know them as.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

It's not like it was the TMNT that were to rape April, and whats getting cancelled?, the cartoon, yeah because they would probably have them drinking beer and cuss on the Toon, good move for them. :roll: This whole thing was what Steve Barron(Director of the first movie) wanted it to be, a straight up Mirage movie.

But, that wouldn't be "straight-up Mirage" because April never got raped in any Mirage comic I've ever read.

Stuff like this makes me love Mirage Vol. 1, so much because the TMNT were so much different then what a lot of people know them as.

Ditto! :D

[Weapon X]

But, that wouldn't be "straight-up Mirage" because April never got raped in any Mirage comic I've ever read.

Yeah, sorry, after I replied I thought "Awww hell". :P

But everything else was basically a Mirage Comic movie. :)

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Well "everything else" would have been fine by me, but I'm glad April only got mugged instead of raped.

[aramconbrat]

Oh, come on, Mikey's girl. Loosen up. They're big boys. ;)

They are also a children's show... And even the comic book characters are "teenagers" so I don't think we need to promote underage drinking to the masses!

[Weapon X]

Well "everything else" would have been fine by me, but I'm glad April only got mugged instead of raped.

Yeah that would have scarred many youth's, that is If they even were to see it, especially with the time it would have come out, which is where the topic of the kid friendly toon and parents not letting their children see it after they saw the big "R" rating on it, myself is included as one of those children......my head hurts. :dead:

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Well, they could have made a good-"Mirage perfect" movie with an upper PG-13 rating, easily.

[Weapon X]

Ohhh yeah definitely, which may or may not happen in '07. :P

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I sure hope so!

[Ryona]

They are also a children's show... And even the comic book characters are "teenagers" so I don't think we need to promote underage drinking to the masses!

Oh, come on, people. Lighten up. I'm not a big drinker myself, but I don't see the problem with the TMNT drinking occasionly. If anything, they can show that you can drink once in a while without overdoing it.

[Weapon X]

I fight even better when I'm drunk, so lets leave it at that.

[OldSchooler]

Turtles really has suffered from the toons hasn't it? I can't believe people aren't willing to have the cussing and the beer and the nasty stuff, when everything that has come about today, has come from an independent comic that contained all that, and to a possibly lesser extent, still does. I suppose it's each to their own really. Batman is in the same boat. The comics are and were just about always brutal, but then out came the Adam West show and you get a whole generation of Batfans thinking the Adam West stuff is boss.
A lot of people posting in response here seem to be speaking as if they're anticipating an R rated turtles film. Wasn't the initial intention of the post to tell us what 'might have been' regarding the original film?

[Weapon X]

Wasn't the initial intention of the post to tell us what 'might have been' regarding the original film?

Yes, that was my intention, just to put this info out there to anyone who didn't know. Funny how it became about the new movie.

[GK Punk]

Yes, that was my intention, just to put this info out there to anyone who didn't know. Funny how it became about the new movie.

Heh, I was just saying that earlier to someone

[OldSchooler]

They are also a children's show... And even the comic book characters are "teenagers" so I don't think we need to promote underage drinking to the masses!

Once again using the Batman analogy, Batman has a vast audience, from the very young to the very old, and the closest 'kid friendly' of those films are Forever and Bats + Robin, and even then, there's a lot of stuff going on that certain people wouldn't want their kids seeing. Spiderman is the same, the Spiderman films reach points that would strike them out of being 'kid friendly', or how about Hulk? We all saw what happened when the TMNT movies started pandering to the kid audience...

[Weapon X]

We all saw what happened when the TMNT movies started pandering to the kid audience...

TMNT 2.

That's all that needs to be said about that. :ohwell:

The style is a little more on the silly side, most likely from persuasion by parents worried about the violence level of the TMNT and its effect on children. Case in point, with the exception of Donatello, none of the Turtles are shown using their weapons against enemies.

The original story was to include Rocksteady and Bebop at the insistence of the studio, but Laird and Eastman fought tooth and nail to prevent their inclusion, and created Tokka and Rahzar as a way of compensating. The original ending to "Ooze" would also reveal the benevolent TGRI scientest Jordon Perry who helps the Turtles to have been a Utrom, but due to budget constraints, plus the fear he may be mistaken for Krang, the plot point was dropped.

Wierd.

[Buslady]

There was booze in the Mirage incarnation? *shrugs*

And Splinter smoking a bong? Yeah...I could see that....NOT!

Raph got drunk in v4 thats why he couldnt fight back the stupid vamps who turned him into Gameraph

hey in that capture of leo hacking shredder...lookit his foot..it looks like the actor tore the leg piece and you can see what LOOKS like a human foot..hahaahaha i dunno...maybe im seeing it wrong

[Dragnskull]

im confused now...

i thought the new movie was going to be CGI but i see people talkin gabout the actors from TMNT1 and 2 when mentioning there wishes for the new movie here...

so is it CGI or is it going to be a regular movie? :S

[Weapon X]

It is going to be CGI, and I think I know where you got confused.

[Jester]

I dunna....the big thing is the TMNT's image with parents. We adult TMNT fans may want this stuff, but the majority of the fan base is little kiddos. If mommas and daddies found out the TMNT were drinking and swearing on top of the violence, we'd see the New Toon hacked up, maybe even have the whole "replace nunchucks with grapler" crap. I'd like to see a gritter TMNT...but you've also gotta remember they are TEENAGERS...legaly, they can't drink. In vol 4 maybe...but not in the old or the new flick.

[Weapon X]

Exactly, that's why TMNT 2 was so toned down, outraged parents at the "violence" in TMNT 1, well If the first TMNT's violence was any worse, the boy's may not have even carried their weapons in part 2 and instead fight with cream pies.

[Jester]

"3 Stooges" style...Nuck Nuck!!

Some times I can't understand parents....mine had no problems with TMNT when I was a kid....*shrugs* Oh well....maybe my parents just weren't socially concious, and that's why I'm a muderous scuzz ball now...
*note that the last lines were in jest....Jester*

[Weapon X]

Neither did mine, I watched the first movie everyday when I was like 2, there was never anything said about violence. I think it was just because they knew I loved it so much, but no they never had a problem.

[Jester]

So you're not a sciopath who wants to kill people? Cause that's what Tipper Gore said would happen if I watched the TMNT movie....:P

[Weapon X]

So you're not a sciopath who wants to kill people? Cause that's what Tipper Gore said would happen if I watched the TMNT movie....:P
I hadn't had any intentions, but there are probably at least one subliminal message in the movie. :roll: :P

[Ryona]

It doesn't matter how much those stupid ass parents bitch. Peter Laird has his thumb firmly on TMNT. No bunch of no good nobodies are going to effect the TMNT as long as Peter has total control.

[Weapon X]

And If worse comes to worse, we will take action, just like we did in the 60's, taken it to the streets!

[Jester]

True, Laird does have total creative control, but he also knows who butters his bread. He won't do anything too drastic as to make parants (ie DVD and figure buyers for the under 15 crowd) mad.

[Sewer Bull]

I still think the movies were silly.;) It is my prayer that Kevin Munroe won't overload the new movie with farts and bathroom jokes. I want more action, more beautifully choreographed and animated ninjutsu. Darkness, stealth, grace.


Ditto, my friend... that's one of my worst fears nowadays.:|

[OldSchooler]

It just annoys me so damn much that stupid people don't bother looking at what a film is rated before telling their kids they can see it.

[Jo269976]

lol, an R rated TMNT would be great, finally the weapons would kill someone :P

[Benito]

To be Honest I can see the R-rated version happening but there on e thing in it the only Turtle I can see drinking Beer is Raph

I can see Mikey drink Alco-pops
I can see Donny and at Saki though

[Weapon X]

To be Honest I can see the R-rated version happening but there on e thing in it the only Turtle I can see drinking Beer is Raph

I can see Mikey drink Alco-pops
I can see Donny and at Saki though
What the hell.

[Jester]

I think he said:
Raph: Beer
Mikey: Soda
Donnie: Saki
I'm kinda confused....if any boy's drinking saki it'd be Leo...and only i think in the presence of his sensi.

[Sewer Bull]

Alco-pops is not soda. It's like soda with alcohol.

And I'd say vodka for Raph.

[Jester]

Ahhh....Whisky....Raphie seems like a Jack Daniels kinda guy to me.

[Ryona]

I'm kinda confused....if any boy's drinking saki it'd be Leo...and only i think in the presence of his sensi.

"Saki"? It's "sake". With that sentence, you make Leo sound like he's a vampire. :lol:

Leonardo: "I've finally subdued Shredder and I will now drink his blood... but I need Master Splinter here to watch me do it!" :lol:

[Jester]

Indeed....suck his blood....recieve his power!!!! But....only with dad's promission...

[Weapon X]

Indeed....suck his blood....recieve his power!!!! But....only with dad's promission...
I love when threads go in a totally unrelated route. :P

[DSWBandit]

I love when threads go in a totally unrelated route. :P

Yep, especially if it's... strange ones... O.o'

[d_osborn]

not THAT much was cut from the film. as for earlier drafts of the screenplay, i have no idea. i've been searching for early drafts for years.

There's more than you think....X's got a shooting script...

ah... a fellow arkansan. what part of the state are you from?

"X" isn't the only one. i've had hard copies of the shooting scripts for the first two TMNT films for years. i'm working on getting first drafts, revision drafts, treatments and outlines. from my research, the original herbeck treatment/script wasn't nearly as extreme as what's being described here. it's been a whlie since i've done any research on the topic, though. it's a known fact that a more cartoon-inspired flim was being developed alongside the herbeck/langen/barron film. thankfully, the good idea won out. :)