New Episode: "Samurai Tourist"

[Toonami Tom]

Usagi and Gen come to New York for a visit with the Turtles. This should be very interesting.:D

[Mandi-chan]

I can't wait. I wonder what Usagi will think of Leo's charming new attitude?

[DIrishB]

I can't wait. I wonder what Usagi will think of Leo's charming new attitude?

It could very well be Usagi helps Leo deal with some of his anger. It would make sense, as Usagi seems close in age to Leo and the rest of the Turtles so it should be easy for him to relate, but with a greater sense of wisdom and experience to offer that "take it from me" attitude. We'll see on Saturday.

[Lady Venus]

This is going to be a good ep. I'm going to tape for sure.

[VaughnMichael]

yea this episodes gonna do something to old leo I bet cause it says on the official site that some one has fallowed usagi to earth and his target is leonardo....this is gonna be good I'm so excited about this episode hehe.
:D
-Putrescent

[Turtle Dove]

Hmm..I wantto see the reaction to the city and eating the dogs.

[Buslady]

the ep should be a fun one..

i read the synopsis...it's ALWAYS leo as usual... :roll:

[Turtle Dove]

now now Leo just needs a good smack and told "Chill out" ButI still love him

[Masked Ninja]

the ep should be a fun one..

i read the synopsis...it's ALWAYS leo as usual... :roll:I'm with ya. Why does everyone always go after Leo? I mean, taking out Don would cripple the TMNT... who knows how many times his quick thinking (and gadgets!) have saved their shells? Or Splinter - who holds the key to their continued improvement in ninjutsu? Must be a personal vendetta, but still...

Don and Raph need stories.

[Turtle Dove]

Leo is the leader and is the one who's be easiest to get under his skin(shell)

[Rhane]

((no one kill me)) Leo is my least fav character so i'm not thrilled that he's getting yet another story but it's ok cause even if he's not my fav he's still pretty dang interesting.

[cowabunga14]

This episode sounds pretty intresin'. It makes me wonder what Usagi and Gen'll think of New York. I just hope this episode is better than last week's. I'll probably review it tomorrow afternoon or evenin' cuz I won't be home for most of the day. This episode looks like it'll have some funny moments so that's a good thing. I just wanna have a good time and give the episode a good review.

[Torrant2]

Personally I hope Splinters gonna be in it, at least show up. I'm going through rodent withdrawals.:D

[TheShowstoppa]

Wow... A lot of interesting posts, but no one made mention of the snake that leo fought in the "Reality Check" two parter. I know you guys haven't forgotten the all new classic, "Arms are overrated!" line... In my opinion, this is who's after Leo.

Can I chuckle and laugh when I'm right? Weep and sob when I'm wrong?

[blue_angel99]

the ep should be a fun one..

i read the synopsis...it's ALWAYS leo as usual... :roll:



No disrespect but...Duh! Cause he is the most popular, I thought that was pretty obvious by now.

[userpjx]

Don and Raph need stories.

Too tue. In the whole run in the series, how many episodes featuring Don have we had? 4-5? We never really delve deep into this charcter, which is a shame because he is my personal favorite.

Oh well. This week's should be good. I doubt it will be the snake coming to earth, most likely a cat ninja err something.

[creativerealms82]

The best part so far is Gensteady. Not that the rest of the episode is not good too. It was very good.

[Seurat]

Ha ha ha! I was chuckling through the whole episode with the Rocksteady and Bebop references. Between Gen the rhino dressing as Rocksteady and a warthog facing the turtles, this was just hilarious!

[userpjx]

Wow... I'm speachless, this episode was better then I thought it would be, and my expectations were pretty high. Gensteady... priceless. Wow... the whole episode was good, advanced the plot brought in some new and interesting characters... In fact I feel this is the best episode so far this season. Next week's preview looks promising also. Leo looks like he's finally on the path to redemption.

I'll say more later I'm just way to taken aback right now.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

Wow I almost died when Gen came out dressed like rocksteady and can we say putting a warthog Badguy in this episode wasn't even better. :lol: They should have given him a mohawk.
I really like the fact Don translated what Gen called Casey, a monkey. I was glad to see they touched on their japanese roots a little.
(BTW did they all get taller cause Raph describe Gen as 6ft tall but I didn't see a hug difference between them?)
I knew Usagi would have to have some sort of talk with Leo. I liked the way they did it, while sparring. Poor Usagi... That was really something. I think it snapped into Leo that things could always be worse. Unfortunately Leo didn't quite get it.
Splinter asking usagi to come makes sense. Things are pretty bad when even Splinter has to call for back up.
Woah Leo in Japan!!! This could go so many ways now...?! I don't think we have seen then end of Leo centered episodes but they could do one on him there and then just concentrate on everyone else in NY.

[Turtle Dove]

Man this episode was great!!! Funny too- The rhino dude dressed up like Rockstady was a nice way to honor the old seroius! Usagi tried to help Leo and did a good job even though Leo didn't listen.

Poor Mikey he lost his comics-*hugs Mikey and kisses him* It's gonna be ok

[X]

Well people here always wondered if they'd see Rocksteady and now they can say they have...

Best episode ever in the history of this new series. Anyone stupid enough to show a human hitting a parked car on a bike, is fine with me.

-X-

[XERO]

This is now my new personal favorite episode.

Classic line: "I AM NOT A MONKEY!" :lol: :lol:

[Turtle Dove]

Well people here always wondered if they'd see Rocksteady and now they can say they have...

Best episode ever in the history of this new series. Anyone stupid enough to show a human hitting a parked car on a bike, is fine with me.

-X-

:roll: uh huh...... Well that scene was funny too:P

[Katie]

Guss all you old school toon fans got your wish with genosuke all dressed up and a warthog assasin.

what beautiful symbolism when Leo turns to bow to Usagi and the scar is glaring us in the face. Our turtle in blue still has a nasty mental scar.

[XERO]

I love monkeys now.:P

[Turtle Dove]

Guss all you old school toon fans got your wish with genosuke all dressed up and a warthog assasin.

what beautiful symbolism when Leo turns to bow to Usagi and the scar is glaring us in the face. Our turtle in blue still has a nasty mental scar.

Yes we did!
I had hoped Usagi was going to help Leo with this mental scar but at least he tried. THis may sound crazy but when Usagi & Leo where sparing I had this werid mental day dream of it being me then kissing Leo once and telling.It'll be ok.

But next week's episode looks really good too. Reminds me of a Sailor Moon Super episode where Kino Mako-chan (Did I spell it right?) aka Lita (Sailor Jupiter) felt the same way Leonardo did after a defeat and went out to the mountains as well to train and stuff.

P.s. I hope Mikey gets his comics back or he's going to cry.

[Rhane]

I think i'm the only one to say that this ep bothered me. Mikey's lil speech at the beginning was far from the truth, it was only one side of the argument and well it just got to me throughout the enitre episode. I am so so sorry if i offend anyone but that's my opinion.

[Katie]

I think i'm the only one to say that this ep bothered me. Mikey's lil speech at the beginning was far from the truth, it was only one side of the argument and well it just got to me throughout the enitre episode. I am so so sorry if i offend anyone but that's my opinion.


Don't apologize for speaking your opinion....people who can't handle other opinions are the one's who should apologize... :)

It was kind of a disturbing episode. It was like walking through the warped inner workings of Leo's mind...

[Turtle Dove]

Don't apologize for speaking your opinion....people who can't handle other opinions are the one's who should apologize... :)

It was kind of a disturbing episode. It was like walking through the warped inner workings of Leo's mind...

Well isn't that a good thing? So we can better understand what is bothering Leo? It was dark at times but it was still a very good episide.

[Katie]

Yeah, don't get me wrong...I liked teh episode...it was a good fit with the continuing angst story line.

I especially liked that Splinter was the one that invited Usagi. It was a little disturbing to me that Splinter seemed to not be paying attention to the fact that Leonardo's attitude had shifted so dramatically.

[Rhane]

I especially liked that Splinter was the one that invited Usagi. It was a little disturbing to me that Splinter seemed to not be paying attention to the fact that Leonardo's attitude had shifted so dramatically.

I agree very much. It seemed very incharacter for splinter to be concerned. Personally i wanna see more interaction between Leo and splinter, it seems that it's juts Leo on his own alot.

[TerranigmaFreak]

I was really hoping that Warthog guy would have changed disguises as well. As well, at least we got Rocksteady. Man I laughed really hard. Must have pic of Gensteady!

[Masked Ninja]

This episode delivered a lot more than I thought it would... great stuff! I was literally beaming as Usagi started to talk to Leo about his problem...too bad Leo is still a bit too stubborn to let go just yet.

But now, at least, we see where all this has been leading. Leo's trek to Japan for redmption. Interesting. With a seemingly flatulent wise dude. I for one am sick of fart jokes, so hopefully they'll handle it well. Or at least offer fresh jokes we haven't heard a million times. *considers the irony of "fresh jokes" given the subject matter... and rolls eyes*

And I agree... that guy hitting the parked car was classic. It got a chuckle from me. :tlol:

As far as Splinter is concerned... I'm glad to see he sent for Usagi, in the hopes that his friendship with Leo would help add weight to his words. I get the impression that Splinter is giving Leo all the chances he can to fix himself before intervening.

Which makes me wonder... After their initial talk, Leo seemed at least a little ready to listen to Usagi's advice. Then the warthog assassin showed up and threw his brothers around like rag dolls. I think that's the most intense and angry voice we've heard from Leo so far. "Leave my friends and family alone!!" Perhaps this pushed him from teetering on the edge of reason back into his belief that he needed to be overvigilant to keep his family safe.

[Katie]

It does seem that every time Leo is ready to at least THINK about letting some stuff go.....more bad things happen. And Usagi approached it correctly....I understand what you are going through because I had THIS experience....

I cant tell you how many times I wanted to punch the next person who told me 'I understand'...with nothing to back it up...after what I went through.

[Lioness-Goddess]

This episode was definitely one of the better ones! Poor Casey, he called him a monkey. :roll:

I think the huge dude with the dog screaming like a girl when Gen came up to him was great!!:lol:

[creativerealms82]

I really liked Mikey's speech, it was a great serious moment for Mikey. I was so expecting him to turn that speech into a joke but he never did. It shows why the turtles are putting up with this new Leo. He was their balance, he did allow them to do what they wanted while still keeping them focused. Mikey's speech while not perfect in many ways shows how Mikey himself has evolved as a character since the beginning.

Next weeks looks good. I expect Karai will show up. Though she is in New York now I guess it would not be too much of a stretch for her to go on her own journey for the same reasons.

[Gokhan]

can someone post mikeys speech i overslept........but somehow managed to open my eyes up long enough to see the guy dressed like rocksteady

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Great and funny episode. It worked on so many levels, the fighting and animation were great, Gen was hillarious(I could just picture him in Vegas, oh the humanity), The Usagi/Leo thing was good although it's sad not even Usagi could help him(well, he kinda did a bit). But the best part of the whole episode...........GENSTEADY!

[Jester]

An A+ episode....Not as Leo centric, thought it was still an underlieing theme. Love that Splinter is being pro-active in an non pro-active way, with the communicade with Usagi. Even the boys actually showed some consern. Gen-steady made me laugh....I was hoping the Warthog assasin would have amohawk...but oh well....:P Leo's spar theropy with Morimoto was a nice touch. Saki Stani's was cool....:P This episode was a good combenation of humor, heart and action. I'm actully warming up to the darker Leo, cause I wanna see the resoultion. Next weeks episode though, looks like it leaves mych to be desired....fart jokes, wasn't that even too juvinile for the Old Toon?? :P

[somebody]

this episode was good! :D usagi was awesome!!! but he didn't help leo ALL the way.. that's ok. the next episode looks good. >u<

[LUCKFF]

Amazing Episode. One Of The Best This Season. It Was An Incredibly Fun Episode And Even More Reason To Support My Vote For A Usagi And Gen Series On 4kids. Every Single Episode That Usagi Has Appeared In Has Been Classic. I Love That Character.

Mikey Spoke For Most Of Us On These Forums As To Reasons Why Leo Feels The Way He Feels (everything Has A Justification). Casey Even Poked Fun At Raph For Leo Stealing His Thunder (which I Dont Necessarily Agree With). And Is It Just Me Or Have I Seen Raph Him Self Puncture His Own Punching Bags, Which Explains All The Bandages On The Bag. Looks Like Raph Was Looking For A Reason To Confront Leo With Some Sort Of Anger.

"So How Do You Like The tortuga Brothers Big Apple Tour So Far?"- Mikey
The Word tortuga Means Turtle In Spanish. (just In Case Anyone Was Confused)

Looks Like Nobody Can Sway Stone Head Leo, Not Even Usagi. True It Looks Like Splinter Is Exercising Every Option Before He Steps In. From Here It Looks Like Splinter Will Allow Leo To Take This On His Own And If That Doesn't Work, Splinter Himself Will Resolve It. I Think It Will Go Down Like This. It Will Take An Overall Failure From Leo For Splinter To Resolve It.

Everything That Could Be Said About The Gen/rocksteady Scene, Has Been Said....classic. How About That Muscle Tone Guy With The Rock-wilder Turning Kitty Cat When He Saw Gen. That Was Funny.

This New Character Co-gima Is Cool. Looks Like He Has Crazy History Behind Him. I Look Forward To Seeing More From Him.

Next Week Episode Looks Very Exciting. I Cant Wait. I Hope Leo Is Gone For The Rest Of The Season And They Keep Referring Back To Him As The Rest Of The Guys Go About Their Adventures. Or I Hope This Is The 1st Of A 5 Part Series (finally!). Never The Less, Looks Real Promising For Leo. I Like What Leo Was Wearing. Reminds Me Of His Outfit In "Same As It Never Was".

[Aska_Badoura]

Hoooo...

I'd hoped this was because of Leo's mental state as of late.. I'm very glad. And I thought, after seeing the season previews, that Leo would be going on a journey alone, to think. I wasn't expecting it to be this soon, but then, I don't know what the outcome will be, either.

"'The sharpest blade in all the land is useless in untrained hands.' But I wonder what they say of over-trained hands." He speaks of Leo's burden, and he answers "Somebody has to carry it." Usagi gives him a look that says 'Oh, really, now?'

Usagi is my hero at the moment... He said "snap out of it", gently, which I really wanted someone to do. At least it gave Leo a nudge in the right direction. He needs help.

Anybody more well-versed with UY than I am, tell me if Kojima is an establish character there, or is he original to this ep? I can find info on a Lord Kojima, but he certainly wasn't of the assassin's guild. And I can't find any Kojima of the Koroshi guild. *shrug*

Gen as Rocksteady: Oh, no, no no no. Very funny! I guess I should have seen that coming... :lol:

But there's still the descrepancy with his name... they've alternately used both a "Ghen" sound, and a "Jen" sound. I'd think it was a hard 'g', "Ghen".

I loved the tour sequence... I appreciate scenes with no dialog, that carry the meaning so well anyway.

I thought for sure Leo had killed Kojima. But he was still alive in the next scene... I wish they'd be more clear about off-screen injuries on this show! I understand they don't want to make people squeamish, but it just makes everything so confusing instead.

I did give Mike a big "awwww" at the end. Poor guy! Taking a comic geek's books... that's pretty low.

I think i'm the only one to say that this ep bothered me. Mikey's lil speech at the beginning was far from the truth, it was only one side of the argument and well it just got to me throughout the enitre episode. I am so so sorry if i offend anyone but that's my opinion.Well, I had mixed feelings about it. Mike was trying to empathize, voice what he thought was bugging Leo, and I did feel a bit of that from Leo, especially in "Dragon's Rising", that blow up at the end... he resents his brothers sometimes, and the freedom that they have to be themselves, that he "has to" be responsible for them... he doesn't, not really, but he thinks he does. It's a self-imposed slavery he's subject to, dedicating his whole life to keeping them out of trouble, when it just can't be done by him alone. And it's not good for them, because they start to rely on him too heavily, and it just fulfills the cycle, making him resentful all over again. He does need to get away from them, but not because of what they're doing to him directly, but what he's doing to himself for them. I hope next week's ep begins a path to healing.

I for one am sick of fart jokes, so hopefully they'll handle it well.Eh... *sigh* I don't think that's something you can handle well. It's not something I find amusing at all. :ohwell:

I think that's the most intense and angry voice we've heard from Leo so far. "Leave my friends and family alone!!" Perhaps this pushed him from teetering on the edge of reason back into his belief that he needed to be overvigilant to keep his family safe.Unfortunately... yeah. But they're definitely getting closer to the root of the problem.

Ans Is It Just Me Or Have I See Raph Him Self Puncture His Own Punching Bags, Which Explains All The Bandages On The Bag.I guess he's allowed to abuse the bag, but nobody else is. :roll:

[Raph's Girl]

Well we got Rocksteady and Bebop!! Er sorta....We at least got Gensteady anyways! :lol:

It was cool to see Usagi at least try to help Leo get out of his funk! It didn't really work but at least Splinter realized that Leo has to find his own path.

Speaking of Leo. I find Leo is reminding me more and more of Robin from Teen Titans. Last season Robin was the same way as Leo. He thought he failed his friends, his family all because of Slade. Like Leo Robin practiced alot and was almost hard to control.

And Like Leo, Robin went to find a great ninja master to practice with. Altho I doubt Leo is gonna run into a humanoid ninja Bear or a ninja monkey like Robin. :lol: Hmm..but Leo's already run into a giant ninja snake so who knows. We'll find out next week! :P

Oh and Casey...You should be honored that Gen called you a Monkey cuz after all everybody knows that "Everything's Better With Monkeys"!! Hmm...That reminds me...I need to see the latest comics uploaded to Superdickery.com :D

[Fledermaus]

10/10. The greatness of this episode was understated. I think it's the best episode in the series. Hands-down. I challenge anyone to show me another episode that had so excellent a combination of humor, strong plot and visual pacing, dialogue, and animation that did its job WELL.

Okay, I hate to say it, since SAINW has always been my favorite, but I think I liked today's episode more--even though I think they were both of similar overall quality. Why a 10/10? Well, for one, it wasn't even about an ultimate showdown/face to end all ultimate showdowns/faceoffs. It was very powerful without everyone dying or going through tortuous agony of some sort (which, in some ways, is a cop-out way to add "depth" to a story.) This episode managed to be just as solid without being a tragedy. Hopeful, insightful, mature (Mikey! He's growing up!), yet simple, and no one even really had to die. I applaud the storyboarder. Excellent, excellent way to tell the story through the camera. Best I have seen in the series. And I expect that such quality will only improve.

Next week's episode. OK. A farting sage? Now what on earth could Leo learn from...

Of course. All that pressure held up inside. Burdens. Guilt. Gas. Sometimes, you just gotta let it go. You know? Otherwise, it sticks inside you and gets all bloated, causing you much pain and then you get all irritable. Now, how long has Leo been sounding constipated? Anyways, the reason why people choose not to... release these inner burdens, even when it is the healthier thing to do is because... it's humiliating to say the least. One must be willing to part with his dignity. And that takes true courage. But, as we all know, Leo is deathly afraid of relinquishing his burdens.:D It's a matter of his honor.

So it does make sense when you think about it. Though naturally, Leo will only get to hear this in cryptic, giggly, zen-farto riddles.

[XERO]

Darn it, Fled, you said what I was just about to type.

I had my theory on the farting, and you beat me to it.

*sighs* Well, at least I'm not alone in that theory.:)

[Lioness-Goddess]

Next week's episode. OK. A farting sage? Now what on earth could Leo learn from...

.

How to rival Mikey's belching with his own farting superpower. :lol: :P

[hazlov2004]

this is a good eppy man the it was funny im so glad usagi talked to leo

[Rhane]

Mikey's speech

Mikey- I think all of you should lay off the poor guy. It can't be fun always being the responcible one and we're the ones who really benefit. Raph's free not to theing 'cause Leo does all the thinking for him, Don's free to dream, and I'm free to take it easy all 'cause leonardo is busy being responcible enough for all of us.

Personally i felt it was beyond untrue and that they presented Leo as a saint. Again just my opinon.

[Doppleganger]

Ah I loved this episode from the touching Usagi/Leo moments when they were sparring to Gensteady! That got a chuckle outta me seeing Gen like that, and with a warthog in it too. :P I really liked how they handled them giving a tour of New York to the tourists.

Michaelangelo's speech was on the verge of being funny and annoying but he kept it together and actually brought up some well thought out points.

Raphael I was like :o I was kinda wondering if the writers had went by this forum or something (or others) something about it struck me as familiar. Ooh and I think Leo heard that comment about protecting his family that's why he threw his sword I think.

Did anyone else think Donatello had this look of glee when he told Casey about the monkey crack? Come to think of it...does that word really mean monkey? We would never know if we didn't research it. He could have just said that because oh...maybe because he's jealous? :lol:

Poor Mikey, his comics got stolen. Guess Gen took the role of villain a little bit seriously. :P

It's nice to know Splinter is in fact trying to help Leonardo in his own subtle ways. They all are in fact. Just trying to help him work his own demons.

Did anyone notice the lair had this odd green tint to it in the first few minutes? I was wondering if that was because they were on the verge of having one of those water portals come in. Does anybody remember if this has happened before? And those crystals in the walls (maybe I don't have an eye for detail) but I don't remember seeing those odd crystals there either. Like when Usagi is sitting wanting to talk to Leonardo. What's that about?

Ok one thing that bugged me though...why haven't they spotted the Foot Tower by now?? I mean are the turtles blind? I'm thinking that maybe they have (they've got to by now) and it's just one of those offscreen moments. But seriously if they WERE all over the city then they must have spotted it. Would be nice to see their reaction.

[Jester]

Ok...more to post....

1. I see that if the "Leo goes to Japan" is actually an arc within an arc, it will be like Gargoyles' "Avalon Saga." Hopefully it'll keep us going back to the New York Clan and then back to Leo more often though. I missed Brooklyn, Hudson, Lex, and Broadway...and I know i'd miss the other 3 turtle boys.

2. Maybe Karai's Foot Building isn't in New York....but rather in say....JAPAN! I'm not saying it's true, but think about it...Leo confronts Karai in the country that's, as he said "the birth of Ninjetsu...of Bushido!" Do we have any proof that the New Foot HQ is New York or Toyko?

[IceFlash78]

dammit... missed another TMNT episode :( Damn you college!

I definately can't wait for season sets!

K... sorry for the pointless spam. *runz*

[Aska_Badoura]

Personally i felt it was beyond untrue and that they presented Leo as a saint. Again just my opinon.That's the thing... Leo's trying to be the savior of the universe for his family, and he can't be. Mike was putting himself in Leo's shoes, and speaking for him, when he came up with that statement, but I don't know if Mike believes that 100% of the time. I don't think they'd all fall apart and die immediately if Leo tried to take care of himself first, instead of punishing himself for his brothers, when they don't want him to be that way anyway. I think that's what Mike believes, but he can also see where Leo's coming from.

Did anyone else think Donatello had this look of glee when he told Casey about the monkey crack? Come to think of it...does that word really mean monkey? We would never know if we didn't research it.I hate you, you know. I had to, after you said it. :p

(turn on your Japanese encoding if you have it) Anyway, yes, "saru", 猿, means "monkey". At least they research their Japanese, even if they don't research their turtles. :p Incidentally, "yamasaru", 山猿, literally, "mountain monkey", means "boorish" or "bumpkin". :D

And those crystals in the walls (maybe I don't have an eye for detail) but I don't remember seeing those odd crystals there either. Like when Usagi is sitting wanting to talk to Leonardo. What's that about?They're in the layout drawings, and the color guide, for the lair. They're supposed to be there consistantly, but I've noticed that they don't always draw them. They may be starting to highlight them this season, just to make them stand out more.

Ok one thing that bugged me though...why haven't they spotted the Foot Tower by now?? I mean are the turtles blind? I'm thinking that maybe they have (they've got to by now) and it's just one of those offscreen moments. But seriously if they WERE all over the city then they must have spotted it. Would be nice to see their reaction.Off-screen thing, probably. Yeah, it gets on my nerves a bit. But they wouldn't necessarily take it as a sign of hostility... they may not know where they stand with Karai just yet. They know the Foot Mystics hate them, but they could be thinking the way I did through most of that ep, that they were operating independently of the rest of the clan.

Maybe Karai's Foot Building isn't in New York....but rather in say....JAPAN! I'm not saying it's true, but think about it...Leo confronts Karai in the country that's, as he said "the birth of Ninjetsu...of Bushido!" Do we have any proof that the New Foot HQ is New York or Toyko?But Hun was driven there in a car, and was already dressed in his tux when he got in the car. Not your most comfortable flight clothes. ;) And the crowd was distinctly American.

[Jester]

Too true....I was waiting to be disproved...:P

[XERO]

Well, if it's the same Foot building from the first and second seasons, maybe the Turtles think that it is still abandoned. :ohwell:

[Jester]

BUt it's now the Oroku Saki Library....makes you wonder if they've, especially Splinter, been watching the News. It is odd that here the TMNT are in the dark and with the "City at War" they were in it when it "wasn't their fight."

[XERO]

Well, maybe the TMNT don't really consider the Foot a real threat to them anymore.

And they'll probably regret it.

[Raph's Girl]

BUt it's now the Oroku Saki Library...

But it's not the Oroku Saki Library! As the following image clearly indicates it's the OrUkO Saki Memorial Library! :lol:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/Dierna/TMNT/Nobody/Oruko.jpg

[Masked Ninja]

Just for the record, that screenshot cracks me up. Silly people :trazz:

[Aska_Badoura]

*blinks* Oooops... somebody bap the backgrounder.. :p

[TheGreenMagic]

That was certainly an entertaining episode, though Gen stole the show when he got his new clothes. :lol:

Listening to Leo talk to Usagi brought a different perspective to him now. We all knew what he was feeling, but hearing him actually express it... I don't know, he sounds like Anakin from Episode III. Well, without the darker path part... though I wonder what Leo would do if someone like Bishop offered him the ability to better protect his family.

As far as the Foot building, perhaps Mikey noticed it during the tour and distracted Leo so he wouldn't notice. ;)

And as a man who loves his comics, I feel a great swell of pity for Mikey.

[Turtle Dove]

And as a man who loves his comics, I feel a great swell of pity for Mikey.

I feel the same- if I lost my entire Transformers collection,TMNT and Justice League.....I'd cry.I'd beyond cry.I'd go afte that dude with an axe

[TheShowstoppa]

I was technically right about the villian. It was sent by Hemi (sp?). Albeit, Mikey made a good point in his opening speech, but at the same time, he didn't. It shows that he's thinking more than he used to, but that now he's also still as immature as he used to be in some ways. That speech was a reflective point.

About the foot headquarters: Didn't Donny say he was going to fry the tech in the building so that the foot could never use it again? If Karai is using it for her own foot HQ, then that means they have definately gone and done some "re-teching." Personally, I don't know why Karai has it in for the turtles, she did after all she that her "father" was lying to her the whole time! Blinded by love, I guess

[Rhane]

Actually, once my grandmothers ((they both life with me)) decided to clean up and one of them threw away my entire Batgirl collection ((barbara gordon + oracle)) and i beyond freaked out. But it's ok cause like Mikey i just bounce right back ;)

[iris]

I have one thing to say about this episode, first-off... I AM NOT A MONKEY!

I missed half this episode. Because I am stupid. I'm still not a monkey. Thanks, Rhane, for recapping Mikey's two cents on Leo.

As far as Splinter is concerned... I'm glad to see he sent for Usagi, in the hopes that his friendship with Leo would help add weight to his words. I get the impression that Splinter is giving Leo all the chances he can to fix himself before intervening.
Odd because I took it the opposite way from (it seems) everyone else. The end of this ep left me with the feeling that the whole family has been trying to help Leo past whatever is bugging him, and finally Splinter turned to Usagi (but I dunno, I didn't see the beginning). :P I felt bad for Usagi when he gave that last forlorn look at Leo, but I think it will turn out that his efforts were not entirely in vain.

I had the same theory about the fart jokes as Fledermaus and Ben. I don't think they're funny at all, but it doesn't matter 'cause they're freaking symbolic! LOL

I applaud the storyboarder. Excellent, excellent way to tell the story through the camera.
The "camerawork" was SO GOOD. I was flippin' out man! I absolutely LOVE that stuff. For example, just the little shot of the guy brushing his teeth with Mike outside the window. It indicated the early hour of the morning and reinforced the fact that it really is really bad for them to be out in broad daylight vs darkness. The angle of the view, the "lighting", the length of the shot, and the natural timing of the guy's movement's along with Mikey's were perfect. The shot was just thrown in there as if to flaunt, "yeah baby, we're THAT good"... genius!

Sometimes I can't believe this is "Just A Saturday Morning Cartoon". A lot of pride went into this ep. There are more examples I can think of just from the half of the show that I got to see... *kicks rocks*

I see that if the "Leo goes to Japan" is actually an arc within an arc, it will be like Gargoyles' "Avalon Saga." Hopefully it'll keep us going back to the New York Clan and then back to Leo more often though. I missed Brooklyn, Hudson, Lex, and Broadway...and I know i'd miss the other 3 turtle boys.
I felt the same way about the Avalon saga. It made me feel homesick on behalf of the characters stuck wandering the mists. I like Leo, but I don't want to miss the others. April too. Where's our homegirl?

the ep should be a fun one..

i read the synopsis...it's ALWAYS leo as usual...
No disrespect but...Duh! Cause he is the most popular, I thought that was pretty obvious by now.
*raises an eyebrow*
Too much of a good thing results in a bellyache.
Just sayin'....

[Turtle Dove]

I was technically right about the villian. It was sent by Hemi (sp?). Albeit, Mikey made a good point in his opening speech, but at the same time, he didn't. It shows that he's thinking more than he used to, but that now he's also still as immature as he used to be in some ways. That speech was a reflective point.

About the foot headquarters: Didn't Donny say he was going to fry the tech in the building so that the foot could never use it again? If Karai is using it for her own foot HQ, then that means they have definately gone and done some "re-teching." Personally, I don't know why Karai has it in for the turtles, she did after all she that her "father" was lying to her the whole time! Blinded by love, I guess

Honor Thy mother and thy Father is 1 reason - another reason is the asian cultures are big into respecting their father no matter what he does.

[Mars-Chan]

BEST EPISODE EVER!!! And I have to agree with everyone else here, Gen-San stole the show. What had me floored...well okay, ROLLING on the floor laughing (since I was sitting on the floor and listening to it with a pair of headphones on) was the *wink wink, nudge nudge* of Gen-San in Rocksteady's clothes! :lol:

All this time I was slacking off from writing on my paper (which I know Usagi will whap me for it later....:lol: :P ) and I got the insperation to write a fiction tidbit.

Enjoy!
http://www.livejournal.com/users/great_wolf/247234.html

*slinks off before her Sensei whaps her* :lol:

[stege-chan]

This episode was so great, the best so far this season in my opinion. There was just so much to love about it! I woulda posted earlier, but I have so much to type that I would've been late for work!

The very beginning was great, Mikey's line about Leo being so responsible so the others could do what they wanted was so true. But you'd think if Mike realized that, he'd suggest doing something to change it, being a caring little brother. Then again, there's only so much you can fit into a 30 minute cartoon. Ah well. That part was very cute ^^

I totally went psycho fangirl as soon as Usagi showed up. I swear I wanted to glomp him every time he was on screen. His expression right after he stepped through the portal was ESPECIALLY cute. I loved it. And Gen calling Casey a monkey... *snickers*

Casey: I'm not a monkey!
Goku: I've been saying that for 500 years...

^-- Anyone else watch Saiyuki? Everyone in that series likes to call Goku 'Saru' or Bakazaru (Stupid Monkey). I wouldn't wanna see him meet Gen. XD

I feel ashamed as a fan that it took me two times watching the eppy to realize Gen was wearing the same outfit as Rocksteady. Woe is me. T_T

While the writers got 'saru' right, Kojima (and I think Hebi too) both refered to Leo as a 'kome'. Kome means rice...like, uncooked still growing rice. They got it right in "The Real World" episodes, pronouncing turtle-- Kame correctly. Hmm o.O

And about the fight with Kojima... Where the HELL did Donnie go? He wasn't hurt, yet he disappeared through most of it. I would've understood if he went to help Raph and Mikey, but he was apparently on another rooftop. Did his bo get knocked over the edge? o.O I was seriously confused there.

I also found it strange that Gen took Mikey's comics...First question. Where the HECK did he hide them?! Second...can he read English? I wouldn't think he'd be able to. I mean, Kojima's scroll was written in Kanji and Hiragana, so I'd assume that's the normal written language in their world. ...I'm just hurting my head now, so I'll stop. Maybe Gen just likes the pictures! ^^ Hopefully Gen and Usagi will make another visit soon. I love the two of them! <3

Next week's eppy just looks silly...I wonder if Splinter is gonna send Leo off to Japan? Man he looked hawt in that Indiana Jones getup. *fangirl whistle*

Okay, I'm done for now, but I'm sure I'll think of more to add later. ^^

[Doppleganger]

Ok...more to post....

1. I see that if the "Leo goes to Japan" is actually an arc within an arc, it will be like Gargoyles' "Avalon Saga." Hopefully it'll keep us going back to the New York Clan and then back to Leo more often though. I missed Brooklyn, Hudson, Lex, and Broadway...and I know i'd miss the other 3 turtle boys.

2. Maybe Karai's Foot Building isn't in New York....but rather in say....JAPAN! I'm not saying it's true, but think about it...Leo confronts Karai in the country that's, as he said "the birth of Ninjetsu...of Bushido!" Do we have any proof that the New Foot HQ is New York or Toyko?

Well Aska beat me to it but basically yeah I can't picture Hun going to Japan for ANY reason actually to visit Karai. Except maybe for a little wine, a little dance, a little...:lol:

But I remember the pan up on the city. That was New York.

Oh and you mentioned Gargoyles? Can I be your friend? :D

I hate you, you know. I had to, after you said it. :P

(turn on your Japanese encoding if you have it) Anyway, yes, "saru", 猿, means "monkey". At least they research their Japanese, even if they don't research their turtles. Incidentally, "yamasaru", 山猿, literally, "mountain monkey", means "boorish" or "bumpkin".

And you know what Aska? I knew you would. That's why I mentioned it. :P

[VaughnMichael]

Wow this episode was soooooo much fun! Omg hehe I think this will go down as one of my all time favorites because of one thing in general GEN DRESSED AS ROCKSTEADY!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh that set me over the edge I loved it and that warthog guy hahah so funny to have a rhino and a warthog in the same episode *wink wink*...what was his name again and is he a regular Usagi character as well.....
I think the story was a bit strange I think they kind of threw the bad guy in because kids would probably have thought the tmnt just running around the city after Gen would be boring but I was fine with just that....mind you I didn't mind the warthog guy it just seemed sort of out of place....
This episode seemed allot like the old show it was rather cool I'm also loving how much Casey Jones is being used in this new show.....I'm missing April though...and I'm Surprised splinter didn't come along....
I also hope we see more of Usagi cause he's really sweet and cute I really like him more then I did in the old show....I don't think we've seen the last of Gen or Usagi BTW not by a long shot cause man I have this feeling Mikeys gonna try and figure out how to go there cause if I was him I'd be super ticket that Gen Stole my comic books GGRR!
Poor Splinter he's so worried about Leonardo......he's being a brat now though...I'm glad Usagi just walked away he's the real honorable character in this show along with Splinter.....I think Splinters fed up....he's going to do something soon to Leonardo to show him his actions are not good and there is no reason to be hating himself so much that's over something in the past....to let go and live his life. Something big is going to go down soon in this story I can feel it!
Once again though GEN AS ROCKSTEADY OMG BLEW ME AWAY BEST MOMENT EVER!!!!!!!
-Putrescent

[Buslady]

AWESOME EP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gennosuke is a crack up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wannabe rocksteady Rockosuke! hehe

totally loved it. good ep. i knew it was hebi somehow involved with the assassin

great Leo Usagi stuff...i love usagi, he needs his own show

on another note...there is no way in hell they are 15 anymore...they gotta be up to 18 by now cause they're ten time more mature now. esp with leo going off on his own next ep...they're not kids anymore.
almsot time to drop the teenage from the title....even MIKEY is acting a little more mature!!!

[biblanca]

I just loved how they made that Pirates of the Carribean reference. Did anyone else catch it? Mikey refers to him and the other turtles as the "Tortuga Brothers".

SWEET! Any other movie ref's in this one?

[TigerClaw]

Great episode, And nice seeing a homage to the original series with Gen dressed kind of like Rocksteady.

[creativerealms82]

Maybe gen saw a comicbook buyers guide and saw how much Mikey's books would go for and sold them.

[iris]

on another note...there is no way in hell they are 15 anymore...they gotta be up to 18 by now cause they're ten time more mature now. esp with leo going off on his own next ep...they're not kids anymore.
almsot time to drop the teenage from the title....even MIKEY is acting a little more mature!!!
The end of the ep left me wondering about that... something about Leo's attitude. I was thinking maybe 17. Think they're aging "real-time" in this series?

[XERO]

I think so. It's only natural.:P

But then again, they could be just 16.

[Aska_Badoura]

While the writers got 'saru' right, Kojima (and I think Hebi too) both refered to Leo as a 'kome'. Kome means rice...like, uncooked still growing rice. They got it right in "The Real World" episodes, pronouncing turtle-- Kame correctly. Hmm o.OYeah, I noticed that... I didn't know it meant "rice", but I knew it sure didn't sound much like 'kame'. Could be the voice actor. It struck me that his accent sort of changed a little in the seperate scenes, so perhaps he just hadn't found the correct pronounciation yet (y'know, tried to imagine how the character would say 'kame', and overdid the accent). Hebi didn't use the word.

And about the fight with Kojima... Where the HELL did Donnie go? He wasn't hurt, yet he disappeared through most of it. I would've understood if he went to help Raph and Mikey, but he was apparently on another rooftop. Did his bo get knocked over the edge? o.O I was seriously confused there.Er... could be a storyboard error, or a small establishing shot or two cut for time.

also found it strange that Gen took Mikey's comics...First question. Where the HECK did he hide them?! Second...can he read English? I wouldn't think he'd be able to.Hmm... good point! Maybe he does just like the pictures. Or thought he could sell them for a good price as some kind of novelty back home. :p

Except maybe for a little wine, a little dance, a little... :lol:Don't you go there... :p

But I remember the pan up on the city. That was New York.
LOL, with the sun rising. Can't help but think about Gargoyles when I see the sun rising or setting in Manhattan. :roll:

Oh and you mentioned Gargoyles? Can I be your friend? :DI'm surprised at how much they come up around here. :D I thought of the Avalon arc, but I hope he's not gone that long. That was a little depressing.

And you know what Aska? I knew you would. That's why I mentioned it. :pI figured... :p Consider me manipulated. ;)

on another note...there is no way in hell they are 15 anymore...they gotta be up to 18 by now cause they're ten time more mature now. esp with leo going off on his own next ep...they're not kids anymore.
almsot time to drop the teenage from the title....even MIKEY is acting a little more mature!!!My personal theory is that they're seventeen... aging in real time, since it's been two years since the show debuted.

Oh. Iris already said that, sorry. :goofygri:

[Rhane]

I always thought they started at 15 and mystically are now only 16 ((or 17)). And on the gargoyles stuff, when i saw the sunglasses at night, my mind went right to Brooklyn back in temptations + Awakening.

[Fledermaus]

A few interesting things that came to mind after letting the episode settle in...

At the beginning of the episode, we see Leonardo training BLINDFOLDED. Needless to say, he's insanely good. Yet, when, in the heat of battle, he gets blinded.... he is useless! Now, I think there is somesignificance to this, since Leo was definitely training blindfolded at the beginning. I don't know. Any ideas?

Secondly, what stayed with me longest, what struck me as strongest in this episode was what Mikey said--or rather, the feeling it produced. Michelangelo had a tinge of remorse in his voice, and the feeling I got was: much as it appears, this situation isn't just about Leo accepting what he can't change. It's about the rest of them, too, holding onto their own little distractions. Of course it's one thing to be aware that you can't always expect the responsible one to be there for you--it's another thing ot take initiative. So perhaps the situation might have to force them to take initiative. Sometimes the way people get responsible is to live on their own, without any responsible "elder" peering over their shoulder 24-7. Therefore, perhaps it would be better for everyone if Leo took a little retreat to Japan. There, he can go on his solo spiritual journey, and the others will have to learn to cope without his leadership.

So, for all of us itching for character dev in the others--we may be getting our wish.:D

Bon voyage, Leonardo!

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I always thought they started at 15 and mystically are now only 16 ((or 17)). And on the gargoyles stuff, when i saw the sunglasses at night, my mind went right to Brooklyn back in temptations + Awakening.

Brooklyn was always the best.

[XERO]

At the beginning of the episode, we see Leonardo training BLINDFOLDED. Needless to say, he's insanely good. Yet, when, in the heat of battle, he gets blinded.... he is useless! Now, I think there is somesignificance to this, since Leo was definitely training blindfolded at the beginning. I don't know. Any ideas?

Maybe he just didn't focus that time. His current anger in him clearly effects his concentration while in combat. On ther other hand, while training, he has a better chance of using his senses when not in battle because he is in a comfort zone.

So, I guess until he regains his entire focus, his mind will be dazed while fighting. :ohwell:

[Tinuvielsdreams]

I said the same thing when I saw him get blinded but I forgot all about it until it was brought up now. I think he was panicked and he doesn't know that roof area like he would the lair. He could have fallen in that huge hole. Plus who is to say he wouldn't accidentally hurt usagi is he and the bad guy were fighting so close together. It was probably some panick as well. Deifnitely a comfort thing, he lost focus big time but the attack was very sudden.

[Fledermaus]

Hmm... Then how come Leo was able to fight all those foot ninja blindfolded in season one?

Anyways, I hope we prod this question a little more. But first, I feel I ought to address another topic: Since there still seems to be much dismay and confusion over Karai's "illogical" shift to the dark side, I will explain AGAIN my theory on the matter:

OKay. Ladies and gentlemen, what is the first thing we know about Karai's life? That's right: She was ABANDONED by her parents as a child! (Or so she thinks) Now, try seeing things from young Karai's perspective. She has no family. Outcaste. Orphans, traditionally in Asian-confucian culture are the lowest of low, regardless of who your birthparents were. Of course, you won't hear this much. I know because my mother was an orphan... She had a very strong sense of self-worth, and because of this "insubordination" was treated with the utmost cruelty and disrespect. One of many reasons why she came to America--to get away from that "I am of higher rank than you, therefore I will oppress you as much as I am permitted!" attitude. (Sadly, that attitude is trickling in as well, but that is another matter entirely.) :flaming: If I could repay those ****in bastards--okay, I'm starting to get all typical asian parent-avenging child.:| And I do know that the better thing to do is to let go of the vengeful spirit, because someone's gotta break the cycle.

Anyways, I have seen the grief of an orphan who is told that she is nothing through my mother's stories. And the joy--the sheer joy that comes out of having a loving, accepting family--even if that family is of foreign "alien" culture.

Now Karai is a different, no doubt, but at least I'm sure the agony of being an outcaste remains the same. Even though the one who took her in was an evil, ugly alien slug, it meant all the world to Karai. Granted, the Shredder probably wasn't the most loving of father's but then again, he did take her in when apparently no one else would. "He gave [her] a life."

Second point: Karai believed that she could keep both her foot family and follow her sense of morality. Leo pointed out to her the truth: that she couldn't have one foot in evil and one in good. Sooner or later, she would have to decide between them--completely abandon one or the other. Karai tried to postpone this, but we know that fate eventually caught up with her in Exodus Pt. 2, where she did, in fact, end up disobeying her father to save Leonardo. As a result of her rebellion, Shredder turned on his daughter to kill her.

What does this reveal? That Shredder is actually a heartless jerk? Well, Karai has always known that, so that's not going to make a difference. What did make the difference was that Shredder was, for once, about to kill his daughter. This SYMBOLIZES his total DISOWNMENT of Karai. Kicking her out of the family, you could say--reducing her, once again, to that dishonorable state of abandonment!

This is the absolute worst thing for Karai. Abandoned TWICE. What's more, it's because she chose to follow what she believed was right. She could have prevented her disownment if only she'd been more loyal! Oh, the tragedy! It's enough to make her wander in the wilderness for a ritual belly-slitting, she was probably so heartbroken. But no. The more she thought about it in the drama of the moment, the more she realized that it was in fact Leonardo who urged her incessently to turn her back on the Shredder and pursue a truly honorable path. Of course. Leo was the one who fed this weakness in her--he indirectly caused her to "lose" the only family she had. So, to maintain her own sanity, Karai shifts the blame to the turtles. To redeem herself, she chooses to fiercely uphold her father's wishes and destroy all his enemies. Then, she can forgive herself for her unforgivable sin of disobedience.:)

There. I hope that clarifies things for everyone who was confused. It's interesting how at first characters behave in ways that seem unprovoked, but if you take their behavior in context of their backgrounds--both mentioned and inferred--the pieces fit together quite logically.:)

[Katie]

Wonderful points! However, I will add one thing. Even though he retaliated against her in Exodus for intervening in his revenge on Leonardo, et. al, I do believe he cared for her.

Remember in hun on the run when Bishop had her? If he didn't care he would have just let Bishop do whatever it was he was going to do. Instead he folded and sent Hun on a rescue mission.

He may be a slimy little alien, but I think he did (does?)care for Karai as a child.

[cowabunga14]

That's very profoud, Fledermaus. You got some good points there. Anyways, onto the review.

This episode was awesome. I liked the humor and the action the most. I really felt that the big fight scene with Usagi, Leonardo, and Kojima was the highlight of this episode. That was good to see Casey again and I laughed when Gen was dressed like Rocksteady. It was also funny when Casey got called a monkey. That Kojima dude reminded me of Bebop especially since he's a warthog. I didn't expect to see Lord Hebi in this episode so that's a good thing. Poor Mikey got his Silver Sentry comics stolten. I didn't like seein' that happen to my favorite Turtle. I really liked Usagi's narration when Gen was walkin' around town before the theme song. The music durin' the tour scene was great. It makes me wonder if it was composed or whatever. Scenes like that need enjoyable insturmental music instead of dialogue. I'd like to see that happen more in this season. This episode was better than last week's so I give it a five out of five. Next week's episode looks intrestin'. I'm sure the Leo fans'll geatly appreciate it.

[XERO]

Hmm... Then how come Leo was able to fight all those foot ninja blindfolded in season one?

To me, it's all about his clouding his focus. He might think that he owes his family because he wasn't able to protect them.

Besides, Leonardo in season one is MUCH more different than the present Leonardo.

Leo in the first season was much more in tone with his way of life and his commitment to being an honorable warrior. He believed in it thoroughly, and he also believed that fighting was more of an art form as well as a contest.

The present Leonardo is trying to find his character and spark again, and his so called 'failure' made him forget (if he ever thought) that nobody's perfect, and he believes that some of the things he was raised to learn was a waste of time.

Maybe that's it. Maybe that's why Leo was able to fight blindfolded in season 1. He was calm, relaxed, and ready to accept his fate.

But now, since Leonardo looked death and betrayal right in the eyes, he feels an emotion he hasn't felt in a LONG time: Fear.

Leonardo is afraid at the thought of losing his family, and it angers him. The more he tries to escape it, the more ticked he gets.

All the things he did in the past don't mean anything now that he's had that experience. He's stuggling to find his answers.

[iris]

At the beginning of the episode, we see Leonardo training BLINDFOLDED. Needless to say, he's insanely good. Yet, when, in the heat of battle, he gets blinded.... he is useless! Now, I think there is somesignificance to this, since Leo was definitely training blindfolded at the beginning. I don't know. Any ideas?
I was trying to figure that out and I didn't even know about the bit at the beginning. We know he can do it.

So, um, what happened?

The enemy comes after Leo (and Usagi).
The enemy busts up the 'tortuga brothers.' ;)
Leo fails to stop the enemy.
Leo loses his sword and loses his vision.
He falls to his knees in pain.
Disoriented, he doesn't revert to (or trust?) his training.
With his vision still blurred, Leo seizes his sword.
He violently unleashes his fury and indignation.
Leo strikes the enemy... was that a lethal blow?
No. He's still Leo, even if he can't see straight.
Yet, this time at least, Raging Leo succeeded...
...which may serve to reinforce Leo's new view.


Perhaps the sequence echoes Leo's story. He rather lost his way, didn't he? In a spiritual sense, he was blinded.

But heck, the whole thing took place in the span of, what, 30 seconds? A minute at the outside? Maybe Leo's eyes were burning and it broke his concentration. Maybe he doesn't chop a lot of onions. They make the blade smelly funny ya know.


In other news,
I just remembered how silly and pathetic I thought it was when Don-san needed help to right himself. :p Turtles!

So, for all of us itching for character dev in the others--we may be getting our wish.:D

Bon voyage, Leonardo!
Unless they show the others in some other way.

Ah, boy, I feel a flashback comin' on.... Ah, yep. See? I told you so. (old skewl Raph) :teek:



PS. Aska, feel free to tell me I'm right any time. :lol: . (http://www.madmartian.com/broc/wav/Chopping_Broccoli_excerpt.mp3)

[Rhane]

My theory on Leo fighting blindfolded in the opening is that Leo as a character is very much blind. He refuses to move on. I understand he has been through some pretty bad stuff but still, so have the others (maybe even moreso cough*sainw*cough). Leo reminds me of Oedipus, i can't explain it well but maybe later i can get an "essay" post up, lol.

[J Legault]

A lot different compared to the old school episode of Usagi's first appearance.

A lot of funny parts in this episode.

The Bebop and Rocksteady reference, haven't seen that type of joke since Secret Origins part3.

My rating 5/5

looks like the next episode will be a Leonardo episode.

[Masked Ninja]

To me, it's all about his clouding his focus. He might think that he owes his family because he wasn't able to protect them.

Besides, Leonardo in season one is MUCH more different than the present Leonardo.

Leo in the first season was much more in tone with his way of life and his commitment to being an honorable warrior. He believed in it thoroughly, and he also believed that fighting was more of an art form as well as a contest.

The present Leonardo is trying to find his character and spark again, and his so called 'failure' made him forget (if he ever thought) that nobody's perfect, and he believes that some of the things he was raised to learn was a waste of time.

Maybe that's it. Maybe that's why Leo was able to fight blindfolded in season 1. He was calm, relaxed, and ready to accept his fate.

But now, since Leonardo looked death and betrayal right in the eyes, he feels an emotion he hasn't felt in a LONG time: Fear.

Leonardo is afraid at the thought of losing his family, and it angers him. The more he tries to escape it, the more ticked he gets.

All the things he did in the past don't mean anything now that he's had that experience. He's stuggling to find his answers.Yes, that makes sense.

[Duke]

I think the reason Leo had trouble fighting blindfolded was that he could not distinguish between Usagi and the Warthog and that the environment was totally unfamiliar to him.

[Fledermaus]

*Reads Ben's, Iris's, Rhane's, and J Legault's posts, strokes chin, nodding in agreement* I see, I see...

This assures me that the two "blind Leo" scenes were linked. It's subtle details like this that add dimension to an episode. Awesome show. What can I say?

Iris... You have reminded me of something else. When Leo lost his swords, and then his vision returned--I expected him to pick up Usagi's sword and run the pig through with it. But instead, he used no weapon but his own mass to save Usagi, which I thought was pretty interesting, since, it seems we never see him fight without weapons, or any of the other turtles for that matter. Leo only used his swords to "decapitate" the bounty hunter later after they had him surrounded.

I don't know if that bears any significance yet... But I'm going to keep my eye out from now on and observe how much Leo relies on his swords.

[Aska_Badoura]

At the beginning of the episode, we see Leonardo training BLINDFOLDED. Needless to say, he's insanely good. Yet, when, in the heat of battle, he gets blinded.... he is useless! Now, I think there is somesignificance to this, since Leo was definitely training blindfolded at the beginning. I don't know. Any ideas?Hmm. Now that you mention it, I did think that was strange. Maybe it illustrates this loss of confidence? Symbolic of his lack of faith in himself as a protector for his family (to the extent that he pushes way too hard to be 'perfect', to compensate)? That no matter how perfectly he practices, it won't solve his problems in the "real world", because it's psychological?

Therefore, perhaps it would be better for everyone if Leo took a little retreat to Japan. There, he can go on his solo spiritual journey, and the others will have to learn to cope without his leadership.Good for them, to remove the temptation to rely on him as a crutch, and good for him to distance himself from the resentment he may feel for his brothers right now, and the self-imposed pressure to be there to protect them 24/7, at the loss of his own sanity.

Anyways, I have seen the grief of an orphan who is told that she is nothing through my mother's stories.Ooh... sorry to hear that you have personal experience (even if only second-hand, it's still pretty personal) with that sort of thing.

And the joy--the sheer joy that comes out of having a loving, accepting family--even if that family is of foreign "alien" culture. I think the Turtles (Leonardo and Splinter, at least, and Don seems to get along with her okay), were willing to support Karai as much as she would allow them, to be her family in the same sense as they are April and Casey's family. She would lose one family, but gain another, which would help the loss somewhat. But it was an alternative she didn't dare even consider, out of love for/honor and fear of her father, as long as he was around to monitor her actions. That's why I think she found a considerable amount of relief mixed in with the sorrow that he was leaving Earth.

This SYMBOLIZES his total DISOWNMENT of Karai. Kicking her out of the family, you could say--reducing her, once again, to that dishonorable state of abandonment!

This is the absolute worst thing for Karai. Abandoned TWICE.Compounded by the sense of abandonment from the Turtles as well, because it *appeared* that she betrayed them, when she actually saved them in the end, and they didn't see it. A bitterness, sort of an unconscious "Fine. You want to believe I betrayed you, and hate me? Then I'll hate you, too!" Added to the other issues, it only encourages her to hate them more.

What's more, it's because she chose to follow what she believed was right. She could have prevented her disownment if only she'd been more loyal! Oh, the tragedy! It's enough to make her wander in the wilderness for a ritual belly-slitting, she was probably so heartbroken. But no. The more she thought about it in the drama of the moment, the more she realized that it was in fact Leonardo who urged her incessently to turn her back on the Shredder and pursue a truly honorable path. Of course. Leo was the one who fed this weakness in her--he indirectly caused her to "lose" the only family she had. So, to maintain her own sanity, Karai shifts the blame to the turtles. To redeem herself, she chooses to fiercely uphold her father's wishes and destroy all his enemies. Then, she can forgive herself for her unforgivable sin of disobedience. Yes, exactly. I really didn't think she'd go in this direction; I thought she'd be strong enough to handle the psychological repercussions in a more constructive way than this. And she is doing so, partially, by keeping herself busy with projects, such as the library. That's what I would expect from her. I thought she could perhaps withstand the temptation to take up the Shredder's vendettas, but it's proven to not be the case. Anyway, this reaction from her *is* plausible if she's gone temporarily (I hope) insane, and has let the horror mess with her mind.

But, if she ever did kill them (which of course isn't likely since this is their show and all ;)), she doesn't realize it could push her completely over the edge, because, deep down, she'd still realize that the desire to be honorable was always within her, and really had nothing to do with Leonardo at all; he only encouraged it. She knows that even now, but it's too soon after her master's death for her to process that idea, too much grief for her to bear without pushing it onto someone else (the Turtles). If they can stay out of her way long enough for her to hopefully come to terms with her honor and her grief, or perhaps talk her through it (even in the middle of a battle with her if need be), she may recover. Or, to compare with Gargoyles again, she may become as Demona did, and never recover from the emotional scars. On the other hand, she lived through an entire millenium, and even if she wasn't a little mentally unstable at the beginning, that would probably push anyone over the edge. Hopefully nothing that drastic will happen to Karai. *blink*

Remember in hun on the run when Bishop had her? If he didn't care he would have just let Bishop do whatever it was he was going to do. Instead he folded and sent Hun on a rescue mission.I don't think that necessarily means he cared about her. If he let her be killed, he'd have to start all over training another human to take on his empire, and that would waste more of his time than he was willing to bother with.

In other news,
I just remembered how silly and pathetic I thought it was when Don-san needed help to right himself. Turtles! I chalk that up to Leo just making himself feel like he's doing something to help Don after getting bowled over like that. ;) (By the way, why do you have a little link to an excerpt of "The Lady I Know/Chopping Broccoli" in your post? :goofygri: )

[Fledermaus]

Compounded by the sense of abandonment from the Turtles as well, because it *appeared* that she betrayed them, when she actually saved them in the end, and they didn't see it. A bitterness, sort of an unconscious "Fine. You want to believe I betrayed you, and hate me? Then I'll hate you, too!" Added to the other issues, it only encourages her to hate them more.

Except that Karai has not met even spoken with any of the turtles since they were actually fighting on the ship, so she can't know exactly how they feel. I think her anger stems primarily from the feeling of having been betrayed by her own sense of honor. It caused her to trust the enemies of her father and eventually, to openly rebel against her father--resulting in her disownment. Likewise, Leo probably also felt betrayed by his "blindness"--which Splinter referred to as "[having] a good heart... [wanting] to believe the good in others."

I personally think that neither is fully aware of how the other feels. I think that Leo feels that he is most certainly the one to have been betrayed, and I'm sure Karai feels that just as strongly.:D

[Niki Asahina]

:( I really wish I could watch this epsoide too; does anyone have a record? Please PM me>< thanks

[iris]

Iris... You have reminded me of something else. When Leo lost his swords, and then his vision returned--I expected him to pick up Usagi's sword and run the pig through with it. But instead, he used no weapon but his own mass to save Usagi, which I thought was pretty interesting, since, it seems we never see him fight without weapons, or any of the other turtles for that matter. Leo only used his swords to "decapitate" the bounty hunter later after they had him surrounded.
I wasn't sure what the sword thing means but I hoped someone else would. Someone on this forum (my apologies, I can't remember who) was saying that possession of his sword meant something specific to Leo. Masculinity? Fortitude? Something like that.

I chalk that up to Leo just making himself feel like he's doing something to help Don after getting bowled over like that. (By the way, why do you have a little link to an excerpt of "The Lady I Know/Chopping Broccoli" in your post? )
I chalked it up to the TMNT people being goofy.

And I dunno... Suddenly I had the mental picture of Leo using his katanas to chop broccoli. And... he was singing. That. :goof: Yeah. So the answer is, because I'm a spaz.

[Fledermaus]

I wasn't sure what the sword thing means but I hoped someone else would. Someone on this forum (my apologies, I can't remember who) was saying that possession of his sword meant something specific to Leo. Masculinity? Fortitude? Something like that.

I think that someone was me.:P Yeah, all those times Leo lost his swords--to Shredder when he got pummeled to turtle pulpiness, then later to Karai. And in season one we see Leo confused over the role of weapons in a warrior's life, yet I think the losing of swords continues to symbolize Leo's inner state. He lost his swords again when he was fighting the assassin. After all that training. And he couldn't fight blind like he did in season one. I find much of what has been said to make sense. Leo's desperate grip on making himself more "invulnerable" seems to have ironically rendered him more vulnerable. At least, we see that his training doesn't seem to help, because as Usagi said, there will always be limitations--things beyond our control.

[Aska_Badoura]

Except that Karai has not met even spoken with any of the turtles since they were actually fighting on the ship, so she can't know exactly how they feel.That's true, but it seems like she'd feel pretty bitter that they didn't help her once the Utroms captured her, although she also knew that was not a realistic expectation, after what she did to Leo. The very lack of contact from them could speak just as plainly to her as any words, I think:
The time spent on the ship, on the way to the Utrom homeworld, bothers me. Why didn't they talk then? The Utroms were tending their injuries and all that, but wasn't there time to have some sort of communication between the prisoners and the Turtles? Wouldn't Karai want to speak to them? (Oh, heck with it. I'm plugging my fanfic again, hope nobody minds: "...And So My Heart Dies" (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=13747). Gives a lot of my thoughts about this stuff, but it's still not quite finished yet). I dunno, I guess I'm just still bewildered by all the complicated psychological stuff going on here, and by how much might be going on with the characters, that we don't get to see. I dearly wish I knew what happened between the Utroms' rescue of everyone from the ship, and the trial...

I think her anger stems primarily from the feeling of having been betrayed by her own sense of honor. It caused her to trust the enemies of her father and eventually, to openly rebel against her father--resulting in her disownment. Likewise, Leo probably also felt betrayed by his "blindness"--which Splinter referred to as "[having] a good heart... [wanting] to believe the good in others."And so they both think they're failures in some way. And neither of them can stand the thought of what their 'weakness' cost them.

I personally think that neither is fully aware of how the other feels. I think that Leo feels that he is most certainly the one to have been betrayed, and I'm sure Karai feels that just as strongly.:DYeah. And it would be easy for them to assume that the other character feels a certain way, and just operate from that assumption.

I chalked it up to the TMNT people being goofy.Well, yeah, but that just doesn't make for a very interesting philosophical debate about a character's motivations. ;)

And I dunno... Suddenly I had the mental picture of Leo using his katanas to chop broccoli. And... he was singing. That. Yeah. So the answer is, because I'm a spaz.No, it makes sense now, LOL. The onion comment! :goof:

[Fledermaus]

That's true, but it seems like she'd feel pretty bitter that they didn't help her once the Utroms captured her, although she also knew that was not a realistic expectation, after what she did to Leo. The very lack of contact from them could speak just as plainly to her as any words, I think:

:ohwell: Okay... I don't know why it would seem that way. Really, why, after going through betrayal, would she want or expect help from these "cursed beings"? I think it would be not only unrealistic for Karai to expect help from the turtles, but also unrealistic of her to even want help from them afterwards. The "friendship" pretty much ended when Leo got stabbed and Karai got disowned. End of them being allies, end of them expecting the other to help. Would you ask someone who you believed backstabbed you to help you out? Why the hell would you be stupid enough to rely on that person? You wouldn't. And neither would Leo or Karai.

Nice fanfic, Aska...:) On the one hand, she wants so much to believe that he is the honorable one, that the utroms are the merciless beings. I back this up with the numerous times she keeps on trying to defend the Shredder's actions before Leo. At the same time, she has doubts about what he does. Had doubts. It is possible to love someone who does terrible things--things that totally go against your sense of morality, especially if that person is your parent, your whole world, all you've ever known. And it happens quite frequently... that children will do what their parents tell them to, even if they know it is wrong, terrible, because they want to win their parent(s)'s affection, love, or approval. Karai wanted to maintain that parental approval and still have everything she wanted.

But poor Karai did NOT get "what [she] wanted.":(

The time spent on the ship, on the way to the Utrom homeworld, bothers me. Why didn't they talk then? The Utroms were tending their injuries and all that, but wasn't there time to have some sort of communication between the prisoners and the Turtles? Wouldn't Karai want to speak to them? (Oh, heck with it. I'm plugging my fanfic again, hope nobody minds: "...And So My Heart Dies" (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=13747). Gives a lot of my thoughts about this stuff, but it's still not quite finished yet). I dunno, I guess I'm just still bewildered by all the complicated psychological stuff going on here, and by how much might be going on with the characters, that we don't get to see. I dearly wish I knew what happened between the Utroms' rescue of everyone from the ship, and the trial...

So.... why would the utroms put the criminals and heroes on the same ship, let alone in the same room, afterwards? To let them fight even more? Especially the poor heroes, who are battered and tired. They need a rest from their battles--the last thing the turtles needed while in the ER was to have to stay in the same room as those vile dogs. No, I don't think the Utroms would have foolishly allowed the chance for any more strife to continue, they being super-wise, super-peaceful telepathics and all.:roll:

[Aska_Badoura]

Really, why, after going through betrayal, would she want or expect help from these "cursed beings"? I think it would be not only unrealistic for Karai to expect help from the turtles, but also unrealistic of her to even want help from them afterwards. . . Would you ask someone who you believed backstabbed you to help you out? Well, I kind of base that idea on the seething look she gave the Shredder when he knocked her across the room... that was definitely not a loving, loyal expression there. I don't think the false idea that the Turtles had betrayed her had come to her mind yet. I believe the idea grew gradually, when she had more time to sort out what happened, and start to shift the blame away from herself. I think at the moment he struck her, she'd probably be royally ticked at her master, for punishing her for her honor. There would be no reason to be angry at the Turtles at that point, because she knows it's not like they physically forced her to save them. That was her own doing. After that, she'd have time to think about just why she did it, and then she'd grow bitter, and regret that she'd done it, and feel like they'd turned her against her master.

So.... why would the utroms put the criminals and heroes on the same ship, let alone in the same room, afterwards? To let them fight even more? Especially the poor heroes, who are battered and tired. They need a rest from their battles--the last thing the turtles needed while in the ER was to have to stay in the same room as those vile dogs. Noooo, I don't mean the same room. But you only see Mortu's ship, and I make the assumption that it made the return trip to the homeworld alone. By necessity, the prisoners would be in the brig (the medics would come to them if necessary), the others in medical facilities. But Karai's just been disowned, and she's just saved the lives of her only friends... they would have been all she had left, if they hadn't thought she betrayed them. And she didn't in the end, so a person's natural sense of justice says "I just helped them, they should help me." Of course, then logic kicks in, "Oh. But they hate me, They think I tried to kill them/one of them." So, as that realization hits her, she'd get bitter at how unfair it all turned out. And then as time distanced her from the ordeal, she'd turn that bitterness on to something that she can do something about (the Turtles, and killing them to "solve the problem"), instead of just living with at as something she couldn't change.

Um... can all this be considered marginally on-topic? :goofygri: It's just that Leo's problem and Karai's problem are so similar... both trying to solve a problem they can't change, because they can't stand to have a dilemma they weren't able to fix (Karai, unable to have her family and her honor simultaneously, and Leo, unable to ensure that nothing would ever touch his family). They both need to learn that they are not all-powerful, and cannot prevent every negative possibility from happening, and cannot change what's already happened, no matter how much training they do, or how much determination they have.

[iris]

In a way, the somewhat naive thirst for "honor" that Leo and Karai share, or shared at some point, started them on the path to mutual injury. It led to another go-round in the cycle of hate. Ironic?

But Karai's just been disowned, and she's just saved the lives of her only friends... they would have been all she had left, if they hadn't thought she betrayed them. And she didn't in the end, so a person's natural sense of justice says "I just helped them, they should help me." Of course, then logic kicks in, "Oh. But they hate me, They think I tried to kill them/one of them." So, as that realization hits her, she'd get bitter at how unfair it all turned out. And then as time distanced her from the ordeal, she'd turn that bitterness on to something that she can do something about (the Turtles, and killing them to "solve the problem"), instead of just living with at as something she couldn't change.
I half agree with that. If Karai were so inclined, she could resolve her differences with the turtles simply by telling them what happened. But she's not so inclined. Instead, she protects their hatred of her because it enables her to transform her world back into black and white. Family and enemy. The wronged and the condemned. Love and hate. The grey areas made her feel conflicted and guilty. I think that she somehow thinks she failed Daddy before (even if she doesn't regret helping the turtles for honor's sake), but she intends not to fail in him in vengeance. Hatred from the turtles makes it easier to honor her father and removes the risk that they will try to appeal to her "weakness" again.

[Doppleganger]

Um... can all this be considered marginally on-topic? :goofygri: It's just that Leo's problem and Karai's problem are so similar... both trying to solve a problem they can't change, because they can't stand to have a dilemma they weren't able to fix (Karai, unable to have her family and her honor simultaneously, and Leo, unable to ensure that nothing would ever touch his family). They both need to learn that they are not all-powerful, and cannot prevent every negative possibility from happening, and cannot change what's already happened, no matter how much training they do, or how much determination they have.

Boy I hope so...this discussion on Karai is insightful and darned interesting. You, Fledermaus, and a couple others have provided such intelligent responses to this ongoing topic. I really really hope the mods don't lock it or maybe split this part off into a "splinter" :P thread . *hint hint*

[Mod Edit by MB: Nah, Discuss to Your hearts' content. ;) Its All connected..]

I would post an essay on Karai and stuff but right now I don't have the time. All I gotta say is I love that girl. And this...

"What have I...What have...they done?!"

[zkarlette]

Okay I just saw this ep today cause I had it on my DVR and I thought it was a pretty good Ep even tho a Little too Leo scentric as it has lately been , I liked the idea on Usagi and Gen visiting and Usagi did have good advice for Leo..

I thought the hole rocksteady and Bebop situation hilarious and really unexpected I really liked the idea..

One kind of twilight zone moment was when Mike lost his comics cause somehow (true story) someone stole mine from my mail last week:| which now I have a heated battle with the USpostal service.......


The next Eps looks pretty interesting I really hope Leo can come back to his senses even tho somethimes is hard to overcome bad situations:ohwell:

[iris]

"What have I...What have...they done?!"
Do you really think Karai is like Demona? I could picture Karai saying that line, but I just think their motivations are very different. Maybe I shouldn't open that can of worms. :sweatdro:

I wonder how the turtles would react if they were to learn that Karai helped them. I'd think that'd mess with their heads a little.

[raphaelprime]

i thought it was a pretty good episode. i liked the Rocksteady refrences aswell, and the slight Bebop refrence. for a second i thought that maybe he's have a mohawk aswell or somethin.


I think someone asked for pics of "Gensteady"? hope this ok if i post a few.

http://tinypic.com/ibglg5.jpghttp://tinypic.com/ibgljo.jpg
http://tinypic.com/ibgln4.jpghttp://tinypic.com/ibglqd.jpg
http://tinypic.com/ibglr8.jpghttp://tinypic.com/ibglrt.jpg

[userpjx]

Totally Awesome... this episode was for sure the best in the series.

[Drtooth]

Absolutely one of my favorite episodes of the series. And once again, hats off to another 80's TMNT cartoon refference. I excluded the warthog warrior as a refference to the old show, but I was waiting to hear Mikey say something like:

"A rhino AND a warthog? Is this some sort of bad cartoon from the 80's or something?"

Would have been too obvious though.

But I'm surprise no one got (or reported getting) the 1970's SNL refference of "samurai tourist" which sounds like it could have been a John Belushi skit.

Anyway, I planned on taping this and watching it over and over again, but my TV reception was absolutely crappy. That's right. I said "Taped" and "reception." I do not have cable or Tivo.

I cannot wait for this episode on DVD.

But about the Farting Master... I dunno... he seems a bit too "Master Roshi" for my taste. I've seen the wacky old master quite a bit over the years, and I don't think Farting will give the character too much of an edge. As for farting? I only laugh at it when it's done well, and in a clever way. I read a Naruto last week, where some dude has a sense of smell thousands of times greater than anyone else, and Naruto unintentionally farts in his face. Now that's comedy.

Sigh... I remember the days when even the word "fart" was a taboo on TV. Now, like Boogers and the word "butt" it's been done so many times the novelty and shock value is gone.

[zkarlette]

I really hope that thenext weeks Ep doesnt get ruined by the Farting Master :|
I mean If they want something funny to compliment an Ep is definetly not that...:ohwell:

[Fledermaus]

I really hope that thenext weeks Ep doesnt get ruined by the Farting Master :|
I mean If they want something funny to compliment an Ep is definetly not that...:ohwell:

Ah, but someone needs to teach Leo to release his burdens to the wind... Teach him to stop being so concerned about being humiliated by releasing such burdens...:D

[iris]

Anyway, I planned on taping this and watching it over and over again, but my TV reception was absolutely crappy. That's right. I said "Taped" and "reception." I do not have cable or Tivo.
Greetings, caveman bruthah! I too inhabit the disinherited Tivo-less land of bunny ears and VHS! Ooga booga!


I've seen the wacky old master quite a bit over the years, and I don't think Farting will give the character too much of an edge. As for farting? I only laugh at it when it's done well, and in a clever way.
I don't expect the flatulence to be funny, and I sincerely hope they're not going for "shock value" comedy with it. Leo's reaction might be interesting, though.

[zkarlette]

Ah, but someone needs to teach Leo to release his burdens to the wind... Teach him to stop being so concerned about being humiliated by releasing such burdens...:D

Hilarious:lol: Maybe just maybe you could be right:P

[userpjx]

Aw man... I hate to be the bearer of bad news but after next week's new episode (called "The Ancient One"), they are repeating Cousin Sid on the 17th. The season is already more than half over! I hope they'll have at least one multipart story.

Which brings up another point. How long is Leo going to be in Japan? One episode? Several? If it spans several episodes will it cut back to the US occasionally? I mean Leo may be a strong character but he can't support the show by himself. If Leo does leave for a while it could give a bit of time for some charcters which need some development. Don comes to mind. Leatherhead too. Where the heck did that guy go anyway? I want LH back!

[Turtle Dove]

Aw man... I hate to be the bearer of bad news but after next week's new episode (called "The Ancient One"), they are repeating Cousin Sid on the 17th. The season is already more than half over! I hope they'll have at least one multipart story.

Which brings up another point. How long is Leo going to be in Japan? One episode? Several? If it spans several episodes will it cut back to the US occasionally? I mean Leo may be a strong character but he can't support the show by himself. If Leo does leave for a while it could give a bit of time for some charcters which need some development. Don comes to mind. Leatherhead too. Where the heck did that guy go anyway? I want LH back!

hey you have a few good points there! Well it would make sense for Leo to stay a while...

[zkarlette]

I hope its only a one Ep thing or maybe two cause this hole Leo thing is getting kind of dull

[Fledermaus]

I wouldn't be too quick to write of a period of Leo away in Japan as "a bad idea." Think about it: there could be a whole string of episodes that just focus on the three others. With Leo gone, there could be a lot more focus given to the developing and finding out the inner dynamics of the others. Throughout most of the series, Leo has overshadowed the other characters, both in the story, and outside. He gets the spotlight most of the time, inside and out. We notice it. His brothers likely notice it--and I'm sure it gets on their nerves. Until recently, they may have been content with letting Leo get most of the attention from father rat....

I personally believe that a radical change in the family dynamics such as this could usher in much awesomeness. So quit your fearin until we actually see the dang episode. Like Splinter said... "Change is a good thing." (well, it CAN be a good thing.) My point is, if the writers go to the trouble of setting up the situation for mondo delving into the characters of Raph, Don, and Mikey... they'd have to be pretty damn thick not to take advantage of what they've set up. And I think there is much reason to have faith in the possibility that the writers know what they're doing. I believe they know what they're doing. Even if it looks like they've made a mistake, it will probably turn out to be a stroke of genius--and we'll find out why maybe half a season or so later.

[TheGreenMagic]

Perhaps they'll at least spend an episode each exploring Mikey, Don and Raph while Leo is away... hopefully one for Splinter as well. That speech Mikey gave during the Samurai Tourist practically sets the show up for some exploration of their characters at this point (as said beforehand).

[Sage Ninja]

My question is, while Leonardo is away who is going to fill his shoes as temporary Leader and bear his burden while he is away?.

Some how I think it'll be a toss up between Don and Raph. But I have a hunch its going to be Donatello who will take up leadership role while Leonardo is away. He is the most mature and level headed of the three.

[userpjx]

My question is, while Leonardo is away who is going to fill his shoes as temporary Leader and bear his burden while he is away?.

Some how I think it'll be a toss up between Don and Raph. But I have a hunch its going to be Donatello who will take up leadership role while Leonardo is away. He is the most mature and level headed of the three.

I was thinking about that too. I hope to God it's Don. He's been hardly explored in this series.

It's funny to look at each TMNT series and see which charcters got much more development than others. Like how in Archie Don and Raph overshadowed the others BIGTIME and how in this series Leo is "overexposed".

[iris]

Throughout most of the series, Leo has overshadowed the other characters, both in the story, and outside. He gets the spotlight most of the time, inside and out. We notice it. His brothers likely notice it--and I'm sure it gets on their nerves. Until recently, they may have been content with letting Leo get most of the attention from father rat....
I can believe that the other guys may may sometimes envy Leo's position and his relationship with Splinter, but at the same time I think they know that's not what they want. Leo's path is not for them. And while we don't get to see Splinter interact much with the others, that doesn't mean he doesn't give them attention. Not to say everything's perfect and peachy all the time.

I personally believe that a radical change in the family dynamics such as this could usher in much awesomeness.
I like much awesomeness! There'll be time for it... I hope they show it.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked to me like Leo was on a boat in the preview... which makes sense since he can't exactly hop a plane. And there's no turtle blimp! What's up with that?! ;) But the point is, boats are friggin' slow. If he's really travelling by ship all the way to Japan, the transit itself could take weeks, and then if he's gonna go climb a tree... of enlightenment... the dude's not gonna be back in NYC for months. But I dunno, maybe he's travelling by transdimensional vortex and he'll be back next Tuesday.

My question is, while Leonardo is away who is going to fill his shoes as temporary Leader and bear his burden while he is away?.

Some how I think it'll be a toss up between Don and Raph. But I have a hunch its going to be Donatello who will take up leadership role while Leonardo is away. He is the most mature and level headed of the three.
For some reason, I'm flashing back to Don and Raph's little smackfest gangup on Mikey in "Still Nobody". In a previous ep, Don had commented that Mike "asked" to be smacked by tormenting Raph, which was true, but also forshadowed Don's decision to smack Mikey himself in "Still Nobody". This seems so trivial that I almost feel like I'm gossiping, but it has clearly become more than just a running joke. I wonder if it means anything?

Since Donny is majorly introverted, it's possible that significant changes in his character will only come out in very subtle ways. Up until recently I didn't think that this show would try to carry anything that refined across episodes... but maybe I was wrong.

If it comes to it, I think that Raph's more inclined to leadership than Don, but it would be interesting to have Don in that role, under some pressure. What'll happen if they test Don's mettle?

[Raph's Girl]

Im thinking it'll just be for one ep because in Teen Titans when Robin went off to Japan to train with a wise sage he came back in one ep. While he was gone the other titans realized they needed a leader so they all dressed as Robin to see which one of them could lead the best. :lol:

Robin came back seeing them eating pizza around the table and dressed up as him...even their pet! :lol:

[Spitfire]

Wow hahah I just saw this episode. I love these old toon refrences.

[Doppleganger]

I just have to say before this thread is locked. Wow! Seven pages is a good run.

P.S. Sorry if this is considered spam. If so delete away. 8)

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja
My question is, while Leonardo is away who is going to fill his shoes as temporary Leader and bear his burden while he is away?.

Some how I think it'll be a toss up between Don and Raph. But I have a hunch its going to be Donatello who will take up leadership role while Leonardo is away. He is the most mature and level headed of the three.

For some reason, I'm flashing back to Don and Raph's little smackfest gangup on Mikey in "Still Nobody". In a previous ep, Don had commented that Mike "asked" to be smacked by tormenting Raph, which was true, but also forshadowed Don's decision to smack Mikey himself in "Still Nobody". This seems so trivial that I almost feel like I'm gossiping, but it has clearly become more than just a running joke. I wonder if it means anything?

Umm, I'm not so sure I understand what you mean by this?:ohwell: Are you saying that Don smacking Mike in Still Nobody, was hinted at him taking the innticative to take charge and diciplign Mikey for being childish. Prior to these two episodes I noticed that Donatello had been saving Michaelangelo's ass quite a few times. To the point that it appeared like he's become Mikey's baby sitter. Maybe Don's protective leadership side is manifaesting and he is trying to keep his little bro in check, by dicipligning him and saving his arse.

[userpjx]

Donatello has been taking charge of trying to keep everybody safe for a while. It's part of his personality. For example in "The Darkness Within" his worst nightmare is that Angel would get hurt. This is also shown in "Bad Day" when he is obviously the most distraught over the loss of Casey and April.

[iris]

Are you saying that Don smacking Mike in Still Nobody, was hinted at him taking the innticative to take charge and diciplign Mikey for being childish.
Well, I wasn't sure what I was saying. That's a good explanation... I hadn't thought about it like that. And they have shown him saving Mikey's rear pretty often, eh?

Donatello has been taking charge of trying to keep everybody safe for a while. It's part of his personality.
Yeah... but usually you don't see it unless circumstances are somewhat extreme.

No, I don't really have a point. LOL

[DIrishB]

I loved the Bebop and Rocksteady nods with the assassin being a warthog and Gen coming out of the clothing store wearing Rocksteady's old outfit, great stuff.

[Turtleman100]

I loved the Bebop and Rocksteady nods with the assassin being a warthog and Gen coming out of the clothing store wearing Rocksteady's old outfit, great stuff.

O yeah that was great Gen looking like Rocksteady.