A look back at "Things Change". [Archive]

Ninja Tiptup

12-05-2005, 11:41 PM

Masked Ninja

12-06-2005, 12:55 AM

I dediced to watch the first episode of the new TMNT "Things Change" and its still pretty good but I gotta say the show has come a long way. The voice acting is much more natural, the writing got a lot better and the animation improve a whole lot. Now the backgrounds of the early episodes look so flat and lifeless and the colors are pretty bland and occasionally well... ugly and stick to the same basic scheme overall. Though watching it again has also made we want one thing a whole lot... box sets. Box sets that have episode transfers that don't include the bumpers (they detract from the show IMO). I'll bet season sets or even half season sets would sell pretty well since more hardcore fans would want those than the pretty lame discs they're currently putting out. The show is too rich in continuity to only own parts of the series for future viewings.Agreed on all counts. I got the vol. 1 DVD recently, and while this still kicks major butt, I can see where they've improved miles on the animation.

1) Much smoother now.
2) Fight scenes are much better choreographed.
3) The acting in the animation is also way better. Not nearly as many wild hand gestures.
4) The character designs have shifted ever-so-slightly. I personally like both, but when you haven't seen the old stuff in a while, you're like "wha...?"

That said, however, there were a few shots that were brilliantly done even way back then.

AND I really hope they put out season sets. I would so blow money on that. Especially if they took out those little "commercial break" things. A fade-to-black and hold that for a couple seconds should suffice. Much easier to keep track of (and probably cheaper) than having to go buy individual discs. And if it was all in order, WELL then :D

Ninja Tiptup

12-06-2005, 01:03 AM

Yes even the first season had some great shots. Much better than much of the industry is settling for. Such as in the first episode when Leo is clashing swords with the foot ninjas and you can see the shadow of his swords on his face. That was awesome. I also always liked that scene with the turtles up against the wall against the purple dragons despite the lame dialogue from the punks and also their voices... gah... so fake sounding. Thankfully one-shots don't sound so bad these days.

LUCKFF

12-06-2005, 01:27 AM

Every So Often I Pop In Disk 1 To Remind Me Where It All Started. I Get This Incredible Feeling When I Watch That Episode. True The Story Is Minuscule Relatively Speaking, But Such A Good 1st Episode. I Dont See Much Change In The Art Its Self But More On The Animation And What They Do With It. I Like The Music More Now Than Back Then. Not A Huge Mouser Fan And I Was Glad To See They Got Them Over With In The 1st 3 Episodes.

I Dont Know How To Explain How I Felt When This 1st Episode Aired. Truthfully It Was Hard To Believe And I Had No Idea What To Expect. After It Was Over I Swear I Watched It At Least Once A Day For That Week. Just Talking About It Makes Me Want To Watch Over Again (I Probably Will). I Am So Grateful That We Will Hit Episode 100 This Season. I Couldn't Imagine We Would Make It This Far.

Seldom Do They Top Shots Like This! :

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b8/LUCKFF11/TMNTvol1-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b8/LUCKFF11/TMNTvol1-2.jpg

iris

12-06-2005, 01:41 AM

Season sets... with proper transitions... at the moment, seems like a happy daydream. Maybe in another year, unless you know how to get 5000 people to sign a petition. :D

I am fond of "Things Change." I can remember watching with low expectations because I hadn't wanted to get my hopes up, and my jaw dropping slightly at what I saw. It wasn't bad. In fact, it was good! It was respectful of the characters. It was love. :tlove: LOL

Masked Ninja

12-07-2005, 11:39 AM

I agree, LUCKFF. That upward shot was great. And I used that fight scene as a presentation in my animation class. :D

One of my favorite shots in this episode was this one:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ninja_otter/CoolShot.gif

The camera is looking up and the Turtles falling toward it. I have a hard enough time animating stuff straight on; doing the proper foreshortening would be difficult... and it looks nice to boot!

iris

12-07-2005, 11:53 AM

You know they didn't pick that angle just because it was purty! They picked it because it would impress people who knew what was cool about it. They are such SHOW OFFS!

I love it. :D

Masked Ninja

12-07-2005, 01:47 PM

You know they didn't pick that angle just because it was purty! They picked it because it would impress people who knew what was cool about it. They are such SHOW OFFS!Hee, they got ME :D:D

Though I would have liked to show my class the Leo and Raph vs. Karai from SAINW. But they would have been like "wha...?" so I didn't, unfortunately. That's some great fight choreograpy and smooth animation :D

Yes... yes I'm a geek :thyper:

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

12-07-2005, 06:53 PM

The TMNT vs Foot fight scene in Things Change still remains one of the best fight scenes of the entire series. The animation and music were just so fluid in was jaw droping the first time I saw it.

Tigerfog

12-08-2005, 12:55 AM

I know I might sound weird... but somehow, I preferred thought the turtles were much better looking in the earlier episodes.
But I agree on everything else though. Especially the choregraphy. :D

Only one MAJOR gripe that is unforgivable and kinda makes me uneasy when I watch the show: music.
I found the background music lame. And the opening song too. Absolutely no redeeming factor here... not a single kickass song kicks in when it is appropriate.
...and it still hasn't improved, it seems. Huge bummer.
Okay, I've been too hard. Perhaps the music at the end of some episodes are acceptable, but otherwise, meh. All opinion, I know.
If I could, I would be pointing fingers at various anime that have marvelous background music like Witch Hunter Robin, any anime with music by Yuki Kajiura (Noir) or Yoko Kanno (Cowboy Bebop) or even Pokemon had decent music. But the problem is, those are japanese productions. I should consider them on a different level.

Masked Ninja

12-08-2005, 02:01 AM

Hmm... I rather like the background music, especially for SAINW (which they have reused a few times in Season 4 episodes). But I could be comparing that to the background music of the '80s show, which wasn't so great.

When it comes to themes... It's still one of the few areas in which the '80s toon scores higher. That was an awesome song. And the new one... teaches us to count to four. Yay.

The Turtles' design makes me happy on an episode-to-epsiode basis. I like the early style, yes. But the current style I also like (not that much different). My complaints begin in a few eps here and there where they seemed to be having off days. The heads looked funny, the mouth shapes were weird and/or didn't fit the face right... The epsiode with the Turtles' first encounter with Bishop comes to mind. When he's poised over Mikey with the circular saw... Mikey looks terrible.

I wish I knew more about anime BG music, sounds cool. But in general I don't like anime as a genre, so that may not happen soon. I remember once I was babysitting and the kids watched an InuYasha movie, so I watched along (nothin' to do) For the movie itself, I was kinda like "ehhh..." but there was a particular theme in the music I liked.

Mandi-chan

12-08-2005, 02:30 AM

I love the background music, ever since day one. The only bg music I could say was kinda lame was the Mouser one. Other than that, beautiful!

I must agree, Tigerfog, Yoko Kanno's music is also beautiful!

TheGreenMagic

12-08-2005, 03:23 AM

Eh, I've always been back and forth on anime music. I like the music in Inuyasha, love the music in Big O... but for some reason, the music in Cowboy Bebop and Hellsing generally seems to take me out of the moment and not engross me in it.

Anyway, I do remember being interested in seeing where things went with the show when I first saw this episode... though I do admit it started off slowly. Not a bad thing, mind you. And I do have to agree... the encounter with the foot was great. 'Specially loved the part where that one Foot Ninja runs the side of the building and clashes sword with Leo and drops down into a crouch as he slides across the pavement. That was really well animated.

Masked Ninja

12-08-2005, 03:27 AM

Agreed on the Mouser music, ergh. Most of the later stuff is great, though.

That shot with Leo vs. the Foot ninja... I have mixed feelings. Where he lands and skids is very nice, but the shot where they actually clash doesn't do it for me. It makes the "running on the wall" thing look silly all of a sudden (physics oh no :O...), and I think their swords should have connected harder. I dunno, it seemed to me like "Hah, Turtle! I touched your sword!"

iris

12-08-2005, 08:35 AM

The epsiode with the Turtles' first encounter with Bishop comes to mind. When he's poised over Mikey with the circular saw... Mikey looks terrible.
If someone were poised over me with a circular saw I don't think I'd look so hot either! :P j/k Sometimes the animation is downright sloppy. I think that's what comes of a show that tries to do as much as they can on serious time (and probably budget) constraints. I find it especially distracting when the proportions are out of whack. However, things stand up to our merciless scrutiny fairly well, I think. :)

TMNT background music is generally not something I think about much. The electric guitar transition music annoys me a tad. :roll: Other than that it enhances the action pretty unobtrusively, which is how I think bg music should be. I wouldn't mind a kickass song here and there tho.

LUCKFF

12-08-2005, 12:13 PM

Masked Ninja

12-08-2005, 04:41 PM

Now That I Think About It, One Of The Things I Really Liked Of The 1st Episode Was How Formidable The Foot Was. I Wish They Would Have Stayed That Way. To Me The Foot Do Not Even Play A Role In The Show. By Foot I Mean By The Regular Soldiers. The Case Could Be Made That The Turtles Have Grown In Skill, But The Foot Cant Even Touch Them Or Phase Them. I Would Like To See The Foot Get Better And Really Be A Threat To The Turtles. Even The Foot Elite Lost Their Formability After Their Initial Appearance. To Be Honest The 1st Episode Is One Of The Only Episodes That The Foot Showed Up In.Very true. You could attribute it to the Turtles improving their skill... but at any rate, I love how they didn't kick ninja butt in their premiere. Sure they took out punks, but they're trained fighters. I just liked how they couldn't best the Foot first try, and had to hotwire the armored car to get away.
The Turtles not being invincible = <3

Goth

12-08-2005, 05:16 PM

Id love to see some season sets it would be better then buying all the individual dvds...but then again the box sets probably wouldnt be released in the uk :(

Mobius One

12-08-2005, 07:33 PM

I loved the first episode because I also had very low expectations, and after I finished watching it, I gave a sigh of relief. I absolutely loved it and I was very impressed with how it turned out.

Fledermaus

12-08-2005, 09:28 PM

Ah... much reminiscing. I remember that day. I was intrigued by the darkness and the new edge. It was mean. It was graceful and dynamic. It appealed to my love of the noir.

Oh yeah. They have come a LONG way in terms of... well, everything. This season, they've even brought back that high-contrast lighting and shadow that went missing after the first few episodes.

But I do not wish to corrupt my happy memories with words. Carry on.:P

Lioness-Goddess

12-09-2005, 07:23 AM

Their voices have changed ever so slightly, too. You can't really tell with Leo (Well, now you can in the new season, but that's not the point), but Mikey's voice has gotten less surfy-accented, and Raph's accent is still there but not as strong. As for Donnie...he actually sounds more like a teenager to me now then he did in the first episodes.

As for background music, I hardly ever pay attention to it. HOWEVER. The music in Bad Day while the turtles were fighting through wind and stuff to get to Splinter on the astral plane just blew me away. I'm not really sure why....but I loved it just the same.

iris

12-09-2005, 11:44 AM

The actors definitely seem to have mellowed into the voices. I think they stopped playing musical chairs with the voice actors quite a while back.

Speaking of accents, Leo has a very subtle one that I can't place. Anyone notice? I bet it's difficult to get Mikey's accent to sound natural.

Don's style has relaxed... which I find to be most intriguing. :)

Thanks for starting this thread, Ninja Tiptup. I am really enjoying hearing everyone's thoughts.

Spitfire

12-09-2005, 01:08 PM

I notice alot less animation errors in the new episodes. I also notice less stock footage being used. The colors and tones match the show better now and as said before the backrounds have come a long way.

Masked Ninja

12-09-2005, 04:15 PM

Don sounds much the same to me... but then the writers don't seem to just throw in big words for him to say at random.

Example: "Things Change"
Don: If we take the south conduit, it'll intersect with the drainage tunnel."

It wasn't what was being said, but the way the voice actor emphasized "conduit" and "intersect," it was like a red flag for the kiddies. "Yo, I'm the smart turtle. Check out these big words." He incorporates it more normally into his speech now.

Leo with a slight accent? Like what kind...? Unless it's my "accent" (pssh, right) and I don't notice it...

Mikey has mellowed out, and Raph too. Mikey's voice used to grate on me like fingernails on a chalkboard, but he manages his voice now without being too screechy. And Raph got that frog out of his throat... and gave it to Leo :P

iris

12-09-2005, 10:43 PM

Leo with a slight accent? Like what kind...?
Well that's what I can't figure out! I just can't place it. Maybe I'm hallucinating. :ohwell: I think it's Mike (the actor), though.

Fledermaus

12-09-2005, 11:54 PM

Well that's what I can't figure out! I just can't place it. Maybe I'm hallucinating. :ohwell: I think it's Mike (the actor), though.

Maybe what you hear in Leo's voice are the miniscule remnants of whatever European language he spoke in his youth.:D

iris

12-10-2005, 05:52 PM

:tcool: You mean I might not be hallucinating? Didn't know he was from Europe. I just figured it was some part of the US or Canada... that Leo was from... lol

LUCKFF

12-13-2005, 12:52 AM

DECIDED TO WATCH "THINGS CHANGE" TODAY.

ANOTHER THING I LIKED ABOUT THIS EPISODE IS THAT THE STORY TELLING DIDN'T NECESSARILY SCREAM ORIGIN OR 1ST EPISODE. THE FLOW WAS AS IF ITS JUST ANOTHER DAY (ALTHOUGH IT WAS THEIR 1ST REAL ADVENTURE). I ADMIRE THE GREAT STORY TELLING THAT WENT ON IN THIS EPISODE. I NEVER FELT THE TURTLES WERE SHOWING OFF FOR US (IF ANY ONE KNOWS WHAT I MEAN, FEEL FREE TO COMMENT ON THIS).

I PAYED MORE ATTENTION TO THE MUSIC AND THERE WAS SOME THEMES I DIDN'T LIKE. FOR INSTANCE THE ROOF SCENE WHEN MICKEY, DON AND LEO ARE FOLLOWING THE TRUCK RAPH GOT STUCK IN, DIDN'T LIKE IT MUCH.

I NOTICED MICKEYS STYLE OF TALKING HAS CHANGED FROM SURFER DUDE OR MALE BIMBO TO MORE LIKE COMEDIAN OR COMIC BOOK GEEK. I DO PREFER THE LATER MICKEY.

I ENTIRELY DISLIKED THAT EXHIBITION THE TURTLES PUT ON FOR THE PURPLE DRAGONS BEFORE THEY KICKED THEIR ASS. YOU KNOW THAT STUPID TIME TRAVEL BACKGROUND.

I COULDN'T HELP THINK THAT LEO WAS SOME HOW EXCITED TO SEE THE FOOT AND THE IDEA THAT MORE NINJAS EXISTED.

HOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT SHREDDER TAILS THE PURPLE DRAGONS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY COMPLETE HIS MISSIONS.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ninja_otter/CoolShot.gif

A VERY GOOD SCENE WAS THE ONE RIGHT BEFORE THIS ONE, WHEN DON LEADS THE OTHER GUYS UP THE FIRE ESCAPES. THE WAY DON MANEUVERS HIMSELF IN THE AIR TO LAND PERFECT ON THE ROOF WAS IMPRESSIVE. CAN YOU CAPTURE THAT SOMEHOW Masked Ninja?

I ALSO NOTICED THIS: MOVING OUT THE OLD LAIR REPRESENTED MOVING ON FROM THE OLD SHOW AND MOVING INTO THE NEW PLACE REPRESENTED A NEW BEGINNING. WE ALL KNOW THAT LAIRD WASN'T TO FOND OF THE OLD SHOW, SO IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT THE NEW LAIR MOVE BE DONE IN THE 1ST EPISODE TO ESTABLISH THIS NEW DIRECTION. WHICH IS ALSO WHY THE EPISODE WAS CALLED "THINGS CHANGE" OBVIOUSLY. AND IT WAS NO SURPRISE THAT THEIR NEW LAIR WAS MESSY AND THAT SPLINTER, THEIR "MASTER" (CREATOR) ORDERS THEM TO CLEAN IT IMMEDIATELY, REPRESENTING THE START OF THE CLEANSING NEEDED TO BE DONE TO LAIRDS CHARACTERS AND THIS STORY IN THIS NEW FORM (LAIR). INCREDIBLE WRITING AND ITS STUFF LIKE THIS THAT I USE TO INSPIRE MY WRITING.

Masked Ninja

12-13-2005, 01:48 AM

That was a good scene, and I have already considered capping it. But now, I must. :D I'll get it up as soon as I can.

Yeah, their little exhibition thing... I think that's a standard "first episode" type thing. The old Turtles did it too, in a way. Mostly I just loved the music playing in the background for that. It was dumb, but fun to see 'em brandish their weapons.

And because I'm a dork and look for these things, there are some bits that irk me. But it only goes to show how good this series has become that these awkward bits stand out. Mikey did start out all "surfer," but I think that was in part to make fun of the old Mikey (esp. with the help of Raph's jeers and complaints) and also to help phase us into the new TMNT world so it wouldn't be such a shock.

And that was some good symbolism, moving from the old lair to a new one. Wonder how closely the old lair resembled the lair from the old show. (obviously the fact that it looks like a section of sewer, but what about furniture and stuff?) I may have to look at that one when I get some free time. And make that GIF. ;)

iris

12-13-2005, 07:48 PM

I COULDN'T HELP THINK THAT LEO WAS SOME HOW EXCITED TO SEE THE FOOT AND THE IDEA THAT MORE NINJAS EXISTED.
That's a really interesting observation. I bet he was. :D

Wonder how closely the old lair resembled the lair from the old show. (obviously the fact that it looks like a section of sewer, but what about furniture and stuff?) I may have to look at that one when I get some free time. And make that GIF.
Cool!

I really liked that they moved as well. This ep was about transition for TMNT in general as well as for all the specific characters involved.

Masked Ninja

12-15-2005, 01:14 AM

All right... here 'tis.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ninja_otter/DonLeap.gif

Behold Don and his coolness. :trazz:

LUCKFF

12-15-2005, 11:40 AM

IMPRESSIVE. LOOK HOW EASILY HE DID IT WITH HIS BAG. THANKS Masked Ninja.

Masked Ninja

12-15-2005, 01:36 PM

For some reason, I always loved that he carried a duffel bag around. :thyper: Too bad he doesn't seem to do it so much anymore.

iris

12-15-2005, 03:05 PM

For some reason, I always loved that he carried a duffel bag around. :thyper: Too bad he doesn't seem to do it so much anymore.
I know! What if he needs his pigeon puppet?!

onyx

12-16-2005, 01:56 PM

I decided to watch "Things Change" today (you made me after reading this thread).

I agree that the show has come a long way, animations are better, vioces are better, colors are better. Still, this episode remains one of my favorites.

The thing I liked is how everyone kept pushing Mikey around :evilgrin:

One thing that "surprised" me is that Don gets more attention and shows more skills with his bo. Lately I'm forgetting that he can fight, he only does his geek gadjets. But in "Things Chnage", he was the one to first jump in the combat with the Foot and he showed some imressive moves. Also, he was the one leading the guys to the rooftops to chase the van and he climbed with those great leaps. I liked the way he was spinning the screwdrivers too ;)

I really think Don needs more attention in the new episodes.

It was odd to see Splinter scared of the mousers when he was waiting for the Turtles. There were only 5 or 6 of them, but Splinter looked really frightened. Then again, he's a rat and the robots are mousers, so... :P

iris

12-16-2005, 03:22 PM

Maybe they wanted to re-establish Donatello's sublime coolness in the earlier eps. ;) Maybe they made him TOO cool and decided to scale back. I would like to see more Don though. He's rather mysterious.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ninja_otter/DonLeap.gif

Behold Don and his coolness. :trazz:
That thing makes me dizzy. Because I keep staring at it. :roll: Very cool.

Masked Ninja

12-17-2005, 10:48 AM

It makes me want to make GIFs of other cool bits of animation on my DVDs.

Yeah... say one thing for this show: it took my ranking of "most to least favorite Turtle" and bombed it. I can't pick anymore. Don has some severe awesomeness, though. And I love it when he kicks trash.

As for the Mousers... I don't think Splinter was frightened so much as thrown off. Remember, this was before getting attacked by random things became the norm. I did like the first encounter, before the roof caved in. It looked like he was bashing them almost matter-of-factly. :tgrin: