New Ep Discussion: 4-14: Ancient One [Archive]

Fledermaus

12-10-2005, 12:02 AM

Well, since no one else has bothered to make the thread... looks like die Fledermaus will have to step in and save the day...8)

"EPISODE NINETY TWO

"The Ancient One"

Story Editor: Lloyd Goldfine

Senior Supervising Director: Chuck Patton

Written by Steve Murphy

Synopsis:

It is time for Leonardo to move on. Splinter sends Leo to a new sensei… or rather, a very old sensei. The journey is long and perilous. Can Leonardo look into himself and find the right answers to his questions? Can he even find the right questions?

NOTE: The new season synopses are based on early drafts of the scripts. Due to this and differences in the broadcasting order, this title and synopsis may be inaccurate."

Could this be the episode we've all been waiting for? Will Leo finally learn how to let go of his fear of losing or looking humiliated? What, if anything, will he learn from the farting sage? Stay tuned!:D

Doppleganger

12-10-2005, 12:18 AM

Very nice formatting Fleder. Looks very professional. :) We will see what this episode has in store.

Masked Ninja

12-10-2005, 01:17 AM

Can't wait for the episode! In, like *checks clock* eight hours. All I'ma say for now is it's interesting that they're saying Splinter sends Leo to see this sensei....not Leo chooses to go himself. What confrontation will there be between them over Leo's attitude? A low-key one, or will Leo screw up and tick Splinter off? I suppose I'll have to go to bed so I can see in the morning! :P

Fledermaus

12-10-2005, 01:27 AM

I'm thinking Splinter sending Leo away will be due to several factors: one, he's tried (offscreen) to shake Leo out of it but knows that perhaps it is time for Leo to be "kicked out of the nest" (after all, he's basically old enough to attend college). Two: in addition, I have a feeling there will be some kinda explosion where Splinter maybe finally puts his foot down after Leo does something really nuts--like gets in a fight with Raph... Ooh. Maybe rooted in the resentment they feel towards one another, which would be cool cuz then we'd get to see more of Raph.

Well, maybe. But yeah, both that Splinter's been planning this, and Leo doing something really bad will hurry up the process. But it's time. The Ancient One will be something like a college professor--quirky, no? Japan, like college, is far away, and Leo is going primarily to learn.

userpjx

12-10-2005, 08:47 AM

OK the bginning was pretty intense, but it's hard to take the episode seriously with all the fart jokes. Sure is a wierd one so far.

iris

12-10-2005, 08:55 AM

Nevermind. LOL

"...trail mix?"

BartAllen

12-10-2005, 09:02 AM

I missed the first firve minutes! Did they explain how or why Leo is there? :-?
he takes a ship.

Turtle Dove

12-10-2005, 09:06 AM

:o That was the most delightful, funny episode ever! I was shocked to see how Leo treated Splinter- he deserved a slap.
But that fat dude who kept farting disgusted me! Word of advice: DON"T eat breakfast while watching this episode! My dad and i where cracking up by the farting made me stop eating.

Eww Poor Leo:lol:

So All Leo had was health food? Typical Leo

I wonder if he mastered the skill of breathing through his mouth to avoid the smell. I kept waiting for the fat guy to fart in the fire and make Leo go "What the hell?":lol:

Leo's angry is done and now we get our old Leo back! *kiss* He finallly admitted he did all he could do to save his brothers and Splinter

Great episode-disgusting..but cool episode

Katie

12-10-2005, 09:10 AM

Man....I couldda done without all the "air" Gross!! :dead:

But it just goes to show you, you can learn something from EVERYONE....no matter how insignificant you think they are. The other big lesson....you can't learn without failing. Poor Leo's ben so wraped up in trying to be perfect that he forgot you have to fall down alot before you can stand...let alone run.

I thought it was very interesting to see Leonardo's memories. It wasn't how it happened, but in the classic "man against himself" scenerio, distoretd memories fuel the fires.

I guessI can put up with Fart jokes to get leo to an end. :roll:

syk_skillz

12-10-2005, 09:10 AM

the farting got annoying after a while but it was still funny. I was like damn when leo sliced Splinter. What is the next episode about? There was no mention for next weeks episode.

Dan

12-10-2005, 09:14 AM

Next week is a rerun of Cousin Sid.

XERO

12-10-2005, 09:15 AM

Shocking... it took a katana slice to Splinter's dome to get Leo to relax. The guy almost chopped off our sensei's head.

Besides that almost-tragic incident, this episode was very clever.

Don't hold your breath for Leonardo to RIGHT AWAY return to his usual self. As one can learn a new lesson, he can easily forget it. It's gonna take time.

Don't worry. My brother will be okay.:)

Now, I look forward to the reruns to hopefully to catch some episodes I missed.:P

Katie

12-10-2005, 09:29 AM

Don't hold your breath for Leonardo to RIGHT AWAY return to his usual self. As one can learn a new lesson, he can easily forget it. It's gonna take time.

Exactly. He learned a lesson, but he still has scars....so true to life. He will never be the "same old leo", but he will learn to deal with thing better in time.

XERO

12-10-2005, 09:34 AM

Turtle Dove

12-10-2005, 09:35 AM

Exactly. He learned a lesson, but he still has scars....so true to life. He will never be the "same old leo", but he will learn to deal with thing better in time.

:cry: I miss my old Leo..well I guess he's growing up.:cry:

creativerealms82

12-10-2005, 09:38 AM

Too many fart jokes but still a good episode. God it is times like these where blood could add to the episode. After Leo slashed Splinter that is. Man It took him nearly killing his own master to realize just how messed up he has became. I'm glad the healing can finally begin.

Katie

12-10-2005, 09:38 AM

I often wondered.

Would you really want to go back to being your past self?

I wouldn't, because all of my life battles, journies, and scars (physically, mentally, and socially) made me a better person.

There are things I definitely could do without in my past.....but I am one of those people who (eventually) come back to the conclusion that everything has a reason for happening.

I cannot think of one experience in my life that i cannot look logically at and say "yes, that really was for the best" Now, as we see with Leo this eason, that does take a goodly amount of time....but all the life experiences we have are what make up the fabric of who we are....you could no sooner cut out a chunk of a sweater and still call it useful.

hazlov2004

12-10-2005, 09:42 AM

yeah i watched it today so good im glad that the old leo is back poor leo and sliceing splinter wasnt ok it the ep is good i wonder what ep we`ll get next week i hope its a good one hmmmmm......

IceFlash78

12-10-2005, 09:45 AM

dammit.. dammit.... missed this one again.... dammit... ohwell I'll be coming home from college this weekend, so I can catch up on the episodes I missed somehow.... :(

The episode looked so interesting... but when I woke up this morning, i was like... blargh... need sleep.

Question... from you guys, it seems like Leo's finally staring to heal...so is he staying in Japan for a few more episodes, or is he coming back to NY?

And who was the master? I mean... I'm assuming he had to be nonhuman cuz Splinter knew him and I'm assuming Leo could walk around without disguise with him and all...

Turtle Dove

12-10-2005, 09:46 AM

yeah i watched it today so good im glad that the old leo is back poor leo and sliceing splinter wasnt ok it the ep is good i wonder what ep we`ll get next week i hope its a good one hmmmmm......

next week isn't new it's a re-run

WEll I wouldn't return to my past life.But Leo can relax and be smiling again with his brothers.What's wrong with that?

XERO

12-10-2005, 09:58 AM

There are things I definitely could do without in my past.....but I am one of those people who (eventually) come back to the conclusion that everything has a reason for happening.

I cannot think of one experience in my life that i cannot look logically at and say "yes, that really was for the best" Now, as we see with Leo this eason, that does take a goodly amount of time....but all the life experiences we have are what make up the fabric of who we are....you could no sooner cut out a chunk of a sweater and still call it useful.

Yeah.

Sometimes, the reasoning has no reason, so we try to make it reasonable. And like Leo, we fail. But, unlike Leo up to this point, we choose to move on.

Leo tried so hard to make a reason to the obvious. He failed, but he still tried to make a reason why he failed.

The reason was you failed because you failed. As long as you did your best, that's all that matters.

As for the 'sweater' quote, I believe that anything can be useful to any creature, big or small. Even the chunk you cut off will be the savior of a clan cold insects seeking warmth.:P ;)

BTW, if any of this stuff doesn't all make sense... I did my best to explain.;) :D

Katie

12-10-2005, 09:58 AM

Question... from you guys, it seems like Leo's finally staring to heal...so is he staying in Japan for a few more episodes, or is he coming back to NY?

And who was the master? I mean... I'm assuming he had to be nonhuman cuz Splinter knew him and I'm assuming Leo could walk around without disguise with him and all...

Well....we don't know if he's staying for awhile or not...but guessing from the ending, he might.

Actually, the old fat farting guy was teh master....specifically, Yoshi's master....which would make the old fat farting guy like the TMNT's Great Grandfather???????

Katie

12-10-2005, 10:01 AM

As for the 'sweater' quote, I believe that anything can be useful to any creature, big or small. Even the chunk you cut off will be the savior of a clan cold insects seeking warmth.:P ;)

BTW, if any of this stuff doesn't all make sense... I did my best to explain.;) :D

Ahhhhhhhhhhh.....very wise Benvenuto-san.....very wise indeed :)

Turtle Dove

12-10-2005, 10:07 AM

Well....we don't know if he's staying for awhile or not...but guessing from the ending, he might.

Actually, the old fat farting guy was teh master....specifically, Yoshi's master....which would make the old fat farting guy like the TMNT's Great Grandfather???????

Leo might stay for like 2 or 3 episodes maybe. Well if that was the granddad that'sa nasty looking granddad. The scene that made be scream was wen Leo and him were climbing up the rock and you could see him.

I'm blind!! I can take looking up Leo but the farting fat dude? No way!

XERO

12-10-2005, 10:08 AM

Thanks, Katie.

*psst* Watch for double-posting. ;)

I would love to have a episode where we finally get to veiw Master Yoshi entirely. How he talked, how he interacted. That sort of thing. The flashbacks don't really do you justice after a while.

Give that man an episode to really shine.:D

Tinuvielsdreams

12-10-2005, 10:08 AM

I got really excited when the ancient one said he had a story about master Yoshi at the very end. Then I looked my clock and realized the episode was over. dissapointed :( ...
I think it would almost make sense to have an episode about what is going on back in New york. Just the trip alone on a boat...think how much times has passed.
All the flash backs during the rock guy/Leo fight from being on the space ship were pretty sad, no wonder Leo is so messed up if that is how he remembers everything.
I was truly shocked when he even disarmed Splinter two times, but then cut him?! I was also surprised Master Splinter didn't knock him on his butt or that Raph didn't at least. I expected a bigger reaction. Very reminiscent of the meet Casy Jones Epi when Raph almost clobber Mikey with that pipe.
When Raph called Leo a hot head...haha I though I would never see the day. :lol:

Katie

12-10-2005, 10:11 AM

*psst* Watch for double-posting. ;)

Yeah...I messed up when i was trying to fix my post.... :( sorry!

XERO

12-10-2005, 10:14 AM

It's okay.:)

Shell happens.:P

Turtle Dove

12-10-2005, 10:15 AM

I was truly shocked when he even disarmed Splinter two times, but then cut him?! I was also surprised Master Splinter didn't knock him on his butt or that Raph didn't at least. I expected a bigger reaction. Very reminiscent of the meet Casy Jones Epi when Raph almost clobber Mikey with that pipe.
When Raph called Leo a hot head...haha I though I would never see the day. :lol:

Didn't Leo deserve a slap in the face? Raph callin him a hothead was funny.Don & Mikey where shocked to hear him.

[QUOTE=Tinuvielsdreams]All the flash backs during the rock guy/Leo fight from being on the space ship were pretty sad, no wonder Leo is so messed up if that is how he remembers everything [/QOUTE]

Poor Leo- he must of thought because he was the leader-that everyone was counting on him no matter what.That's too much pressure for anyone. At least Leo finally put it behind him and can move foward.

Tinuvielsdreams

12-10-2005, 10:23 AM

Didn't Leo deserve a slap in the face? Raph callin him a hothead was funny.Don & Mikey where shocked to hear him.

You would think but I guess Splinter figures never strike a student on the verge of nervous collaspe.
There doesn't seem to be any trouble wacking Mikey though :P poor guy...
Don and Mikey facially were like, Raph says what?

tOkKa

12-10-2005, 10:32 AM

Rikirk

12-10-2005, 10:50 AM

Anyone else think that Leo's Bounty Hunter outfit was damn cool...

Could have done with a feww less break wind jokes...but .. I digress.

Great Eppisode...

Oh..The fight with the Rock...

Reminds me of Skywalkers fight with the Vader apparition in the Dagobah cave.:lol:

LUCKFF

12-10-2005, 11:08 AM

Top Notch Episode. One Of The Best Of This Season. Very Hilarious And Very Fun To Watch.

Leo's Match With Splinter Was Very Intense And I Couldn't Help Wonder Why Leo Was So Mad At His Master. This Is The 1st Time This Leo Scared Me. There Was No Reason For Him To Talk To Splinter Like That. Guess This Was His Boiling Point. And It Needed To Be Reached For His Journey To Begin.

It Was Cool To See The Yeti's. They Taught A Valuable Lesson. All The Martial Arts And Years Of Training Will Do Leo No Good If He Is Not Composed. They Defeated Leo With Simple Calculated Moves. These Yeti's Were Certainly Not As Skilled As Leo.

I Don't Think The Farting Was Over Done. I Got The Idea From The Beginning That This Is Something He Does All Day. It Was Obvious That This Fart Master Was The Ancient One. I Don't Think It Was Meant To Be A Secret To The Viewers.

The Symbolism Was Nifty In This One. The Demons Obviously Represented Leo's Own Demons. The Fact That The Only Way To Defeat The Demons Was To Fail. And Failing Is One Of The Demons Leo's Has Been Battling. I Think Leo Learned A Very Valuable Lesson Right There. Leo Himself Describes The Symbolism With The Rock Monster: "i Hardened My Heart Like A Rock, Wrapped Up Inside My Own Shell."-leo. This Is Why Leo Was Inside Of The Rock Monster. I Love Stuff Like That.

I Was Hoping On Learning More About Yoshi. But It Was Interesting To Meet The Great Grand Master Of The Turtles.

14 Straight New Episodes Is Not Bad. Better Then Some Other Toons That Repeat After Just 5. 8 More Till 100, Wonder If It Will Be Special.

LUCKFF

12-10-2005, 11:09 AM

Anyone else think that Leo's Bounty Hunter outfit was damn cool...

I THOUGHT IT WAS COOL. IT REMINED ME OF RAPHS COAT IN THE 1ST MOVIE.

stege-chan

12-10-2005, 11:09 AM

A nice episode. The beginning seriously freaked me out. I about had that horrified expression Donnie did when he first saw Leo really going at it with Splinter. And MAN, when Leo actually hurt him! MAN. @_@ Oopsie. I'm being repetitive.

That Indiana Jones outfit made Leo look really slim, hardly like he even had a shell! XD And the hat was awesome, but then, hats are. Ooh! And those too snow demons, er, oni, er Ronsos? >.> Yeah, they deffinately reminded me of Yenke and Biran, the Ronsos that made fun of Khimari in the same way in Final Fantasy X. Maybe even the same voices?

I wasn't surprised that Leo's a health food nut, but maybe he hoards chocolate somewhere his brothers won't find it. A funny thought at least.

I especially loved Leo's fight with 'himself' at the end. That was great. Especially the clips with the other guys being 'omgz, help' I loved that. But I'm a total nut for full out angst. XD The Ancient One was great too, he reminded me of Rafiki from Lion King. :D Anyone else think so? Especially when he bopped Leo over the head.

I for one hope Leo's back in New York by the next episode though. It's no fun to split up the main characters so there's less interaction. It's happened in a few series I like, so I'm not looking forward to something like that happening. *crosses fingers* So yeah, maybe a month or so will pass, and by the next new eppy Leo will be back home. *nods*

TerranigmaFreak

12-10-2005, 11:11 AM

This episode is a total *fart* gas!!! Still, one minor detail *farrrrrt* bothers me. I mean, why is Luke using a pair of katanas? I thought *FFfaaarrTTTtttt* that was weird. What happened to the part where he's suppose to get the X-wing out of the swamp? I didn't know Japanese people lived on planet Dagobah, either. Why isn't Yoda green? And why is Yoda wearing a diaper!?!? Am I *faaaaaaaaaarrrrt* the only guy here more annoyed with the whole Empire Strikes Back rip-off than the fart jokes?

Masked Ninja

12-10-2005, 11:13 AM

Reminds me of Skywalkers fight with the Vader apparition in the Dagobah cave.:lol:Very true. Heck, did anyone think the Ancient One was acting just like Yoda? Rummaging through Leo's stuff, looking like a crazy old guy... and then you realize (or Leo does) at the end that he's the sensei he was seeking.

And actually... I was impressed that they only made direct reference to the farting two or three times. Sure, it was always there and that was annoying... but they didn't feel the need to make 2837463874 verbal jokes about it.

I really liked seeing how Leo interpreted the events from "Exodus." It helps everyone understand why he went so psycho. Gosh, I love this show.

EDIT:TerranigmaFreak beat me to it. And no, I wasn't bothered... I just enjoyed the homage. :D

Lioness-Goddess

12-10-2005, 11:28 AM

I started laughing when those two big blue dudes called Leo poopy-face. Immature? A little. Funny? Hell ya!

Anyway, nice to have Leo at least sort of back to normal. *huggles Leo* No more being more uptight than usual? Good. :)

Yes...Leonardo's fight with the rock guy was very Star Wars-esque. I'm beginning to think the script writers are Star Wars fans!

How come we're getting reruns next week? The season isn't over already, is it?

TerranigmaFreak

12-10-2005, 11:29 AM

But it made things way too predictable. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed this episode, but it just bothers me how close it follows Empire. And am I the only disappointed that the Ancient One didn't fly to the top of the mountain being propelled by his farts?

LUCKFF

12-10-2005, 11:57 AM

"Ancient One Heh? I Know The Way To That Old Wind Bag." - The Ancient One

Its Funny That He Refers To Himself As A "Wind Bag" And Leo Didn't Even Catch On. Even After Constant Passing Of Wind By This Old Fat Guy.

"Thats Just Air!" - Ancient One

Lol

"Um...ah....the Path Continues In This Direction" (unsure Tone) - Leo

"I Said Some Roads Are Shorter Then Others, That Means A Short Cut Stupid!. Kapeesh?!" - Ancient One

He Played Leo. Thats Mad Funny.

Jester

12-10-2005, 12:03 PM

Can I say that Leo is acting Raphie-esque now? Raph said it....The Yeti guys said one who fights with anger is doomed to lose. That's very Raphie-esque. I like the observation that Raph is mimicing Leo's responce to him nearly clobering Mikey in "Meet Casey Jones,"gotta love those kinda throw backs.
I agree that Hamato Yoshi needs an episode all his own...maybe Leo upon his return and Splinter can tell his story....maybe the Orb that the Utroms gave Sensi can come in...and maybe the Daymio. Yoshi is the unsung hero of the TMNT universe.
Oh yeash one last note....FART JOKES!!! COME ON!!! :P
EDIT: Anyone else think Yoda and Luke when we see a Leo who underestimates the Ancient One and followed him to....well.....himself

Fledermaus

12-10-2005, 12:31 PM

Oh man. Loved that episode. Loved the acting, especially.

As for the farting, it was still necessary. Think about it, Leo all this time has been feeling (as those giants kept telling him)... like a baby. Not like an adult. Not dignified. Farting sage... I think it helped underscore the fact that to accept our failures, we have to stop being afraid of looking dumb--in Leo's case, he had to face something that he looked upon as disgusting and unacceptable.

And the art... *drools* did you see those landscapes? And the visual pacing and storytelling, the way we first see the sewer and only hear the voices, and SEE the reactions of the brothers--they didn't overdo the dialogue, which was great! The way we SEE Leo react to all those derisive comments from the giants, calling him a baby--OOH, that HAD to get under his shell.

Yes, very high quality. Leo had to end up hurting a loved one, only then was he forced to look at himself and what he'd become. Sad, but that is sometimes the only thing that will slap us in the face.

Now, I agree with what Benvenuto was saying earlier about how just because Leo knows what he's been doing wrong, DOES NOT IN ANY WAY MEAN he will change easily. Lord knows it sure as shell wasn't easy for me to change. The only advantage Leo has now is that he has looked the monster in the eye. He's been acting this way for so long it has become a habit, a dark part of him. The struggle will be an everyday struggle, perhaps for the rest of his life.

But he is wiser, now. That's what counts.

Anyways, fewer words. My brother looked at me strangely when the Ancient one said that to Leo. KISS. So I'll refrain from essays and analyzing... and just enjoy this wonderful show. Wonderful show...

EDIT: Yeah, Jester. The ancient one WAS Yoda. Before you say, oh damn fart jokes=bad, clear your mind of stereotypes and watch. They weren't primarily there to be funny. In fact, they were never funny. Just disgusting and, well, exasperating. I felt disgusted and exasperated, and you could tell by Leo's acting that he was disgusted and exasperated too. Just like when a lot of us got pissed when Leo exploded on his brothers in Dragon's Rising, remember the strong possibility that the writers are trying to make us viewers feel what the characters are feeling. As far as the art of storytelling goes, I think they did a SUPERB job. They just keep getting better. I'm going to have to stop having favorite eps because now I don't think I have any.

iris

12-10-2005, 12:50 PM

he takes a ship.
Thanks man. :)

I was like damn when leo sliced Splinter.
:teek: Leo did WHAT?!? *grumbles*

I thought it was very interesting to see Leonardo's memories. It wasn't how it happened, but in the classic "man against himself" scenerio, distoretd memories fuel the fires.
Looked a little like scenes from a nightmare. Wouldn't be surprised if Leo's been having them... no wonder he's been such a grouch!

Am I *faaaaaaaaaarrrrt* the only guy here more annoyed with the whole Empire Strikes Back rip-off than the fart jokes?
I didn't even notice it. Yoda rocks. If this was a Star Wars rip-off, George Lucas should be proud. Sorry it spoiled the ep for you.

Really I think Leo was the only one actually in the dark here. I pretty much figured out the rock monster represnted Leo... it even looked and moved like Leo....

Don't hold your breath for Leonardo to RIGHT AWAY return to his usual self. As one can learn a new lesson, he can easily forget it. It's gonna take time.
I'd be disappointed if he just reverted to his old self. He's gone through too much to get to this point. He sure looked relieved when he finally had his lil' moment of clarity. "Took you long enough, Leonardo!"

And no, Ben, I don't think I'd want to go back to being my past self. Hitting reset means you have to play again from the beginning, and that's friggin' annoying!

Anyone else think that Leo's Bounty Hunter outfit was damn cool...
Me! Too bad it will probably go away now that he's hunted down his "own worst enemy". :p Shades of Catcher in the Rye, man. Remember the reversed hunting cap Holden wore?

The dressing down Leo got from the yeti sentries was a riot, and well-deserved on Leo's part. He was acting like a baby... if babies carried swords and had lethal ninja skillz. Best shot of the whole ep (at least the part I saw) was when Leo's first attack on the sentries landed him upside down in the snow. For once, I was totally cheering for Leo's opponent to smack him down. It was almost divine retribution... :lol:

XERO

12-10-2005, 12:54 PM

And no, Ben, I don't think I'd want to go back to being my past self. Hitting reset means you have to play again from the beginning, and that's friggin' annoying!

Classic and true. :lol: :D

cowabunga14

12-10-2005, 01:17 PM

-->> ..ok here is my note to Playmates Toys i am passing around.. ::

Dear Playmates Toys ..
I don't live in hong Kong.. please make an Ancient One action Figure that you squeeze and it farts and teaches Leonardo Lessons cuz he is my favourite. Amen..

http://www.islandentertainmentsonline.com/acatalog/whoopecushion.jpg

..ok..so whatcha think ?! ..it's only air..

..please sign my petition ..

Ha ha ha. That's really funny, Tokka. Hopefully that petition thing'll work out. Anyways onto the review.

This episode was pretty good for a Leo-centered one. That Ancient One dude reminded me of Yoda with a little bit of David Lo Pan thrown in from Big Trouble in Little China. I liked the action and I felt the actin' was great. Those ghost demons were intrestin'. I never knew Leo would wuss out, but I guess if he doesn't fail then he won't learn. I've never seen him so angry at Splinter before so that's a first. He's startin' to remind me of Raph. I felt the fartin' jokes were overused, but other than that...great episode. I give this episode a five out of five.

It really sucks that next week's episode is a rerun. It makes me wonder what episode'll air on Christmas Eve. Will it be another Christmas one? Only time will tell. BTW, did anyone see that Turtles commerical around 10:09 AM when Bratz was on? I had the channel on Fox before I went to bed last night. Then when I turned on the TV this morning, the commerical was after somethin' else. I watched it and changed the channel. The commerical basically had Mikey on a hoverboard botherin' his brothers. Leo, Don, and Raph were chasin' him at the end. Anyone got screen caps of it?

blue_angel99

12-10-2005, 01:36 PM

I love Leo centered episodes. He has always been my favorite. It is about time he got more attention. Anyway,This was definately the grossest ep...yet very funny. I couldn't believe it when Leo cut Splinter.:sick: Did Splinter let him do on purpose? :( Leo going to Japan was bound to happen sooner or later. I wish traveling was as easy as they make it on cartoons. The battle with the Yeti's was great. Leo needed some humbling. Poopie face!:lol: It's funny that when a wise old teacher acts the total oppsite of what they should be. At least he wasn't a pervert like Master Roshi. I can never get tired of fart jokes. He even farted on Leo!!:o :lol:
Leo admitting surrender to the ghosts was another great way to humble himself. I agreed when ancient fart said that if your survive, you haven't truly failed. To paraphrase the Good Book " A just man falleth seven times,yet rises up again." As long as you don't get discouraged by failures, you'll make it.Leo needs to realize this. His greatest fault is his pride. I was so happy when he finally acknowledged that he did the best he could for his family and that he doesn't have to be perfect. I always tell my students that I only expect them to do the best they could. If a "C'" is the best you do then I am pleased. Leo is finally going to be his good hearted self again but now a little more wiser! :)

iris

12-10-2005, 01:50 PM

And the visual pacing and storytelling, the way we first see the sewer and only hear the voices, and SEE the reactions of the brothers--they didn't overdo the dialogue, which was great!
Oooo I love stuff like that. *hands Fled a napkin* (ya got a little dribble...)

The dialogue was fantastic. And the visual acting, and the vocal acting. Just a tiny example was Leo's uncertain posture and the stunned voice when he had to describe his meagre travel food to the Windy One. That scene could have been just a throwaway, but it was very impressive. To say nothing of the acting during more intense scenes, such as the expression he wore when he surrendered to the demon spirits.

... So I'll refrain from essays and analyzing...
The effort I am making not to laugh is most valiant. :nod:

True, though. Life is short; fewer words count.

Before you say, oh damn fart jokes=bad, clear your mind of stereotypes and watch. They weren't primarily there to be funny. In fact, they were never funny. Just disgusting and, well, exasperating. I felt disgusted and exasperated, and you could tell by Leo's acting that he was disgusted and exasperated too. Just like when a lot of us got pissed when Leo exploded on his brothers in Dragon's Rising, remember the strong possibility that the writers are trying to make us viewers feel what the characters are feeling.
My sentiments exactly. And the flatulence actually served to bring my sympathies back to Leo. Poor dude was confused.

Masked Ninja

12-10-2005, 02:40 PM

Jester

12-10-2005, 02:46 PM

Nice MN....who would wanna bap you for that...:P

iris

12-10-2005, 02:56 PM

Jester is right! Very cool. It would take me a year to draw something like that.

Man, Leo must have had a heck of a lot of time to dwell over that moment. :(

I am doing some research on addiction recovery online, and just now I ran across a verse that some people use as a therapy. It seems appropriate to Leo's situation, especially now that he's had this personal revelation.

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

Odd to think that a recovering drug addict and a recovering angry ninja have things in common. Hmm... upon a tiny bit more research, I have found that this verse, or a variation, is also called "the General's prayer" and dates back centuries. The USO distributed it to the troops during WWII. (The more I read the stranger it gets.) Heh... Leo, maybe you could have gone down the street instead of all the way to Japan... :P

somebody

12-10-2005, 05:10 PM

i was right..they were yetis...:nod:

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

12-10-2005, 05:24 PM

Great episode, but I think it could've standed to lose some of the fart jokes.

ZariusTwo

12-10-2005, 05:25 PM

Masked Ninja

12-10-2005, 06:54 PM

Give Leo a Myspace alreadyHeehee, seriously.

Leonardo Mystic

12-10-2005, 09:27 PM

I am very pleased with this episode, and I'm going to want screen caps of the entire show once it hits DVD. I have awaited eagerly to see such half a season. It could have used a little less "wind", but the expressions on Leonardo's face was pricelessly funny, so it was okay.

The intro leading in and the beginning was intense. Leo used such harsh words in both, but it was when he was sparring with Splinter that truly frightened me. I could have never imagined Leo would harm his father, but I'd predicted it would take hurting a family member by his own hand to shock him to senses. I just wasn't expecting Splinter, but it makes perfectly logical sense. Leo is the closest to him out of his family. The sheer level of remorse and guilt Leo felt afterwards was overpowering. I nearly cried, especially later when he was talking with Splinter in his room, and I saw tears in Leo's eyes. He knew he had done something unforgiveable in his eyes, and his face and manner reflected it.

Moving along to the trip, when Leo arrived in Japan, I was amazed by the portrait that was created. The scenery was absolutely gorgeous. The amount of texture and coloring used reminded me of Usagi's world; so vivid. The music used was composed brilliantly, and added even more life. In short, I loved it. :tanime:

The scene with the two Yeti brothers was funny, albeit somewhat immature with the "poopy-head" and "baby" remarks. However, perhaps the baby references held some truth to them. Leo was being childishly stubborn in his pride. Heh, he obviously couldn't handle being teased too well, but neither do I, so I can't say I really blame him.

Despite all his breaking wind, I found the Ancient One oddly endearing. He was a wily old coot. Leonardo learned a lot from him, and it's true in the saying you can't judge a book by its cover. *giggles* I don't know why the A.O. kept calling Leo "Monkey Turtle", but it was cute.

It was interesting to watch the Exodus battle from Leo's POV. There is so much pressure put on the man, and he feels he has to succeeded or else. I was so proud of him when he admitted defeat in the battle with the Demons, and then fighting the stone version of himself he realized he did the best he could and there was nothing more he could have done. I knew he could do it, but the first step is always the hardest. I am so happy to see now he is on his way to recovery. He'll never be the same way he was before, and that would be stupid as the revelation would be all for naught then, but he's going to be better and wiser now.

Congrats, Leonardo. Welcome back. *huggles plushie*

Ecto Jedi

12-10-2005, 09:33 PM

Judging solely by the intro, I didn't think I was going to like this week's episode very much...Basically, I'm a little put-off anytime the writers find the need to concentrate on one character only and create a story just for one episode that doesn't fit into the ongoing story arc...I'm happy to say I was pleasantly surprised!

"The Ancient One" fit perfectly into the story arc after all, despite having no Bishop or any villains. I didn't really mind all the fart jokes and I immensely enjoyed the references to "The Empire Strikes Back," from the ancient one masquerading as a simple bystander to Leo fighting "himself" during one of the tests. Very cool.

Fledermaus

12-10-2005, 11:24 PM

OK, you can shoot me if you like, but I got inspired.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ninja_otter/LeoShame.jpg

This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.

Yeah, shoot you out of fanatic admiration. That's beautiful, Masked Ninja. All that today? Wow.:)

Hm. They didn't even do so much as show Splinter's fur flying from the cut.

OR, what would have been just as powerful, and was often employed in old movies... don't even show the resulting disgusting wound of the stab/slash/gunshot. They could have just had Master Splinter stumble back, we the audience just see the horrified reactions--we see how Leo reacts when HE sees what we CANNOT see. Splinter is obscured in the dim light, we only see him pressing his paw/hand to his forehead, never removing it. Kind of like how they never actually showed Leatherhead ripping Bishop's minions to shreds. Sometimes not showing the horror is far more disturbing than actually showing it. Like in John Ford's The Searchers when the family gets raped and scalped and all sorts of lovely stuff by Scar and his warriors. Ethan (John Wayne's character) searches the house, comes to a dark doorway, we see his black sillhouette stop and freeze as we know he gazes on some unseen horror. He then crumples, his head slumped. Terrible. We know what happened. We saw no gore, yet felt just as horrified as we would have (maybe even more), had we seen what Ethan saw.

But we still got to see the reactions of everyone in the scene following Splinter's cut, which was important.

Ah, and just forgot to mention. did anyone else notice the complex background sound at the wharf? They did a good job at making the place seem "inhabited", adding well to the dimension of the setting.:D

longing for leo

12-11-2005, 12:25 AM

This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.
I swear Masked Ninja, your stuff is always AMAZING! But, Raph was more worried/shocked than mad, wasn't he? That's how I remember it, at least. I loved their expressions in this one, especially the 3 boys listening at the door. They looked so worried for Leo. I almost choked up. & the nightmare/flashback to exodus scene. :o It was so hard to see them begging in fear/pain. Even Raph...I think his disturbed me the most, actually. He's the one who would have to be dragged away to do a tactical retriet in earlier seasons.

Um, how did Leo get from New York to Japan on a boat? Meh, whatever. That did go pretty fast though. I was really disapointed that we didn't get to see them say goodbye. Surely Leo's bros would've had something to say about it, if only something like "come back to us Fearless, we still need ya." or something.

I can see a really good opportunity for a Karai/Leo situation from this. Leo's left his family undefended/alone for over a month (we assume). Karai wants to hurt Leo. What's the best way to hurt Leo? Hurt his family. I'm just saying, she's got the mystics who found the lair (again, assuming they found it in Bad Day). I wouldn't be surprised to see Leo come back to an empty lair. Then he'd have to go rescue his family and fight Karai...not with a heart full of fear & hate...but full of love for his family (as the Yeties & the Ancient One advised). Actually, I'm going to be somewhat disappointed if they don't do something like this. But I suppose the Karai/Hun relationship (not romantic!:dead: ) will have to be developed more before we get some kind of confrontation.

Aska_Badoura

12-11-2005, 01:40 AM

Man... I've been working all day getting the house ready for a Christmas party... didn't get to see the ep till now (2 am-ish... :sleep: )

HE SNAPPED OUT OF IT!!! *jumps around all ecstatic-like* I'm sooooooooooooo relieved!

Well, I'm not saying it was all instant-*poof*-like, or anything, but it's a really good start. Hee, that relieved smile he had on his face after realizing what was wrong was a nice touch. Maybe a bit over-stated, but they wanted to make sure we knew a burden had been lifted, or at least identified.

It all reminded me very much of "Star Wars", but so much of "Star Wars" is archetype and legend sort of stuff, that I can expect to find it in other good stories, too. (What is it with wise old teachers testing prospective students by trying to annoy them to death first? :p)

I thought it was very interesting to see Leonardo's memories. It wasn't how it happened, but in the classic "man against himself" scenerio, distoretd memories fuel the fires.I don't think he necessarily remembered it that way, but the temple/the creature/the Ancient One (whomever it was that manifested the visions) mirrored his guilty feelings back to him, in a way that he could see just how silly they were. They took the actual events and twisted them around to match what Leo was blaming himself for. Which made Leo say "Wait a minute... that's not how it happened!"

Okay, somebody send Karai to this guy next, and I'll be a happy little fan. ;)

Anyways, fewer words. My brother looked at me strangely when the Ancient one said that to Leo. LOL, I thought of myself too. I always use way too many words to say something simple, and over-analyze everything to death. I'd deserve a bop on the head too... :p

Masked Ninja

12-11-2005, 01:52 AM

I swear Masked Ninja, your stuff is always AMAZING! But, Raph was more worried/shocked than mad, wasn't he? That's how I remember it, at least. I don't doubt you remember right ;). I was imagining Raph's look of disbelief to take on a mildly angry tone naturally (with him narrowing his eyes) but I think I might have pushed it too far. As it was, I sketched that face a couple times before getting there, and got impatient. Heh.

Hm. They didn't even do so much as show Splinter's fur flying from the cut.

OR, what would have been just as powerful, and was often employed in old movies... don't even show the resulting disgusting wound of the stab/slash/gunshot. They could have just had Master Splinter stumble back, we the audience just see the horrified reactions--we see how Leo reacts when HE sees we we CANNOT see. Splinter is obscured in the dim light, we only see him pressing his paw/hand to his forehead, never removing it. Kind of like how they never actually showed Leatherhead ripping Bishop's minions to shreds. Sometimes not showing the horror is far more disturbing than actually showing it. Like in John Ford's The Searchers when the family gets raped and scalped and all sorts of lovely stuff by Scar and his warriors. Ethan (John Wayne's character) searches the house, comes to a dark doorway, we see his black sillhouette stop and freeze as we know he gazes on some unseen horror. He then crumples, his head slumped. Terrible. We know what happened. We saw no gore, yet felt just as horrified as we would have (maybe even more), had we seen what Ethan saw.

But we still got to see the reactions of everyone in the scene following Splinter's cut, which was important.Too true. Especially after Exodus (they showed Mikey's leg break, for cryin' out loud!) I'd expect them to get as close as they could. Maybe with blades it's a bit different as far as the rules are concerned. That scene you set up, though.... avoiding showing Splinter at all except in silohuette... that would definitely have worked. Very well, even. Makes my fingers itch to try it out in comic form, but alas... it's nearly 2am, I gotta go to bed, and I don't have another hour and a half to fiddle around in Photoshop like before :P

I don't think he necessarily remembered it that way, but the temple/the creature/the Ancient One (whomever it was that manifested the visions) mirrored his guilty feelings back to him, in a way that he could see just how silly they were. They took the actual events and twisted them around to match what Leo was blaming himself for. Which made Leo say "Wait a minute... that's not how it happened!"That also makes sense. You could interpret Leo's frantic "I did what I could!" both ways: 1) That's actually how he remembered it and he's finally breaking down and saying what's been eating him, or 2) It's been twisted on him and he's protesting their cries for help, which he may deem indirect accusations.

Hoo boy, gotta stop now. Bed for me. :thyper:

Buslady

12-11-2005, 01:54 AM

interesting ep, it's getting better this season.
i could have done without the tooting sensei...that just kinda got OLD..and it's NOT just air. PPEEUUU:dead::sick:

maybe they'll focus on one of the others since leo's out in japan...but they didnt show anything for previews?!?!!??!??

Buslady

12-11-2005, 01:57 AM

Awesome work as usual. i swear he was going to break down many times in this ep. Esp when he sliced Sensei! I was like WHOAH!!!!!!!

OK, you can shoot me if you like, but I got inspired.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ninja_otter/LeoShame.jpg

This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.

Duke

12-11-2005, 08:05 AM

maybe they'll focus on one of the others since leo's out in japan...but they didnt show anything for previews?!?!!??!??re-run time

Zelda

12-11-2005, 08:44 AM

I'm hearing mentions of re-runs... are we at the end of the season already!? Are we not going to get any more new episodes for months? What??

My partner and I were watching and we figured that Splinter allowed Leo to hurt him since Splinter can take ANY and ALL of them apart in an instant. Unless he's starting to get old ;p

Wow, I really didn't think we'd be in the minority with thinking that the farting was just stupid. I could take the joke with Mikey getting all dramatic pretending to fight the guys in the virtual reality of Secret Origins before it turned too real.. 'break like the wind!' because it was more sublte. But seriously... this RUINED the Ancient One episode for me. Where it could have been really intense and powerful, it just came off as stupid little kid humor that totally undermined all the issues it was dealing with. There are a million other ways that they could have portrayed the ancient one as accepting failures/not being afraid to look dumb.

I really liked the rest of the episode and I think the giant guys calling Leo a baby were great...so was the scenery...and the rock Leo...and failing to the ghosts was AWESOME...

Doppleganger

12-11-2005, 09:41 AM

OK, you can shoot me if you like, but I got inspired.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ninja_otter/LeoShame.jpg

This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.

Oh man that is cool. I hope they give Splinter a scar like they did with Leonardo.

Ok onto the episode. Surprisingly I found all the farting funny. For me it was actually important (not just comic relief). Did anyone else notice how they went out of their way to embarrass, knock down, and downright humiliate Leonardo? I thought this was significant. The old guy was trying to get him to swallow his pride (pride is Leo's biggest enemy) and admit that he isn't perfect. Kind of like a kids boot camp for trouble kids. They knock you down and make you cry only to build you back up. :)

J Legault

12-11-2005, 02:00 PM

This is by far the best Leonardo episode of Season 4 so far.

Has a few cool parts to it. Gotta admit that Leo looked cool in a hat and trenchcoat.

The ancient One's "Air" is hillarious. Since it was a kids show they wouldn't of been able to say the word "fart". I find it funny that this TV series got away with a lot of fart noises.

The part with Leo fighting the Stone Warrior who end up having Leo's face reminds me of in "Star wars Episode 5" for an obvious reason.

Anyways I give this episode 5/5. Looks like the next one will probably air in January. Till then I hope 4kids TV airs the 2 episodes I missed out from seeing.

Drtooth

12-11-2005, 02:26 PM

Actually, I've heard "Fart" on numerous shows for kids, myself...

Anyway, very interresting ep. The Fart thing wasn't too funny at first, but there is one key rule with humor. If you do something not or mildly funny enough times, it's a running gag, and gets funny after time.

The thing about this series that drives me crazy, albiet in a good way, is that they're always building up to something, andd you can never tell what it is until you least expect it. Then everytrhing makes perfect sense. Took me forever to realize those three guys with the same voice were Utroms, 2 years ago.

Fledermaus

12-11-2005, 02:31 PM

Aska_Badoura

12-11-2005, 03:11 PM

Now that I'm more awake to think about this.. ;) The beginning was hard. I had this dread since the beginning of the scene that things were going to get out of hand.. then telling his sensei he had nothing more to learn from him, cutting him... and the horror a moment later. The shot was nice, where his brothers were rushing to Splinter, and we see Leo's arm in the left foreground; his hand goes limp, and the katana clatters to the floor. It conveyed his shock with barely any motion, and no facial expression at all. Poor guy.

I do think the injury was an accident, but only because it was supposed to be understood between them that this was only a spar, and the object was *not* to disarm anyone, and no cutting strikes, but Leo did anyway. Splinter was holding back, as is appropriate for a sparring match with blades (yeah, I know, oxymoron in the real world, but this is animated ;)), but Leo lost it.

But Splinter said in words what was driving me crazy most about all this.. that Leo wasn't letting his family in, even though they were trying so hard to help him though it, and that they'd all healed but him. That's why I was grumbling so much, because he wouldn't let go of the wound, and wouldn't let anyone help him through it. I hate seeing when people need help and they won't even acknowledge the problem, let alone allow anyone to be gentle and reasonable with them.

It hurt to see him get so angry at the yeti-guys, enough to be completely ineffective, and all of his impatience throughout the ep... wow. I'm so glad he figured out his problem, but he sure got beat up in body and mind on the way there. Not much fun to watch. :(

That is a great drawing, Masked Ninja, blood and all (I can see you fighting with Splinter's char design though... 'Don't make me draw him like that!!' ;) Just jabbing at ya :)). And again, it DRIVES ME NUTS that this series keeps showing people getting cut, and never shows any blood. Kids know you bleed when you get cut. I understand them not wanting to freak out the kids' parents.. but if you want to avoid showing blood, don't let the characters get cut! It is the most disconcerting thing in the world to have no indication that the character's even been injured, other than the set-up shot just before it, and then the character putting a hand to the area. I love comparing this show to Gargoyles, but it falls seriously short in the realism department on this issue. They handled it well in Gargoyles, and usually just made sure none of the characters were clawed, cut, or shot, and when they did allow it, it was a major plot point, not just gratuitous violence (not that it is in TMNT2K3, but they do it a whole lot more often than Gargoyles did). There's a balance, and I'm still really surprised at some of the violence I've seen on this show, but they're not following it through all the way, and in my opinion, it's worse than showing the blood. (At least draw a line to indicate the cut!)

Mike and his comics... first it was "Major Mollusk", now "Toxic Zombie Monkey".. :lol:

I'm hearing mentions of re-runs... are we at the end of the season already!? Are we not going to get any more new episodes for months? What??Probably a month or so. That's only four episodes, you know. ;) Maybe a little longer than that. But long breaks between sets of eps is typical for an animated series. Last season was unusual for going straight through like that.

iris

12-11-2005, 03:15 PM

I'll say it again, I don't think the farting was meant to be funny. So, therefore it wasn't funny--it was nauseating and tried our patience. Ooh, I don't like repeating this again. Just read my posts on this gaseous matter--a page or so back in this thread.
I've said that too, Fledermaus. I mean, I just can't imagine the script writers going, 'oh yeah, let's put in another "air" joke! Those are best! The fans are gonna bust a gut!' It just doesn't work. The flatulence served a storytelling purpose (as weird as it is to say that), but even that didn't work for everyone. *shrug* Until we have a script writer in here telling us what their intent was, we can only guess.

Raph's Girl

12-11-2005, 05:34 PM

I just have to say that I loved this ep of SW er TMNT. Yes there were many elements to SW in this. Mostly the Ancient One reminding me of Yoda, and Leo finding out the rock creature was his inner torment.

I loved those Yeti brothers tho.. Poopy face. :lol:

Maybe the next new ep will be stories about Master Yoshi since Ancient One (great-grandpa/Yoda?) was starting to tell Leo tales of Yoshi. I'd LOVE to learn more about Master Yoshi! *hugs her Master Yoshi figure* :evilgrin:

But it seems that Splinter and the Ancient One were in talks. How else would Ancient One know Leo's name or that he's from Yoshi's line?

Masked Ninja

12-11-2005, 08:09 PM

That is a great drawing, Masked Ninja, blood and all (I can see you fighting with Splinter's char design though... 'Don't make me draw him like that!!' ;) Just jabbing at ya :)).Haha, you caught me. Though part of it is probably "This was quickly drawn, then colored..." But yeh. I was like "Eyebrows! Noooooo...." :tlol:

And the thing is, I don't like animated blood and I still think Splinter should have at least had a red line. I mean, geez... *refrains from repeating self*

Raph's Girl... you're probably right. Either Splinter sent the guy a message, or the Ancient One has some mad mind-reading skillz.

I think I may have been annoyed by the Yetis' taunts if it wasn't hilariously funny that two huge fuzzy guys with deep voices were using phrases like "poopy face." *snort*

My two favorite sequences of this ep are hands-down the first part (up until after Splinter talks to Leo) and Leo fighting against himself as a rock monster thing. I think the Ancient One's line was great for that... "Then why do you punish yourself?" It may be a reused line from something I haven't seen, but I still really like it.

iris

12-11-2005, 08:13 PM

It hurt to see him get so angry at the yeti-guys, enough to be completely ineffective, and all of his impatience throughout the ep... wow. I'm so glad he figured out his problem, but he sure got beat up in body and mind on the way there. Not much fun to watch. :(
Aw... I am definitely not as empathetic. :goofygri: I was totally grinning during the yeti part... but that was because I knew they weren't trying to hurt Leo. He'd built up that wall that kept his family out, and as far as I could tell it was mostly made of staunch pride.... but the yetis certainly gave him reason to feel a little humility. It was a good thing. But when that process continued with the "surrender" to the ghosts... that's when I had the lump in my throat. That was really difficult for Leo, and--yeah, even though he's 'just a cartoon'-- I was proud of him.

Mike and his comics... first it was "Major Mollusk", now "Toxic Zombie Monkey".. :lol:
That's awesome! Sounds like "28 Days." Zombies rule. :lol:

But it seems that Splinter and the Ancient One were in talks. How else would Ancient One know Leo's name or that he's from Yoshi's line?
Um... he's psychic? ;) I was wondering the same thing. I was also wondering how old he might be.

Fledermaus

12-11-2005, 08:16 PM

Splinter and the Ancient One probably chatted via astral plane.

I thought it was great to see Leo humiliated this episode, especially when the Yetis kept insulting his manhood by calling him a baby. You know what a big deal it is to Leo to be mature and responsible and 'adult.' I didn't see at as elementary school banter--they were really digging at one of Leo's most sensitive areas. You could almost feel his 'dignified manhood' shriveling with every taunt and KO. Gave him that many more obstacles to overcome.

Spitfire

12-11-2005, 08:48 PM

So I take it no Leo for awhile. No offense to any Leo fans but I'm glad. To be honest I think the show could use a nice break from Leo. He always seems to find a way to take the center of attention and I'm happy to see hime snap out of his little hissy fit.

Turtle Dove

12-11-2005, 10:03 PM

syk_skillz

12-11-2005, 10:59 PM

DIrishB

12-12-2005, 12:49 AM

Great episode. Really liked how Leo was able to finally come to terms with his anger and feelings of insecurity. His fear of failure was definitly focused on majorly with this episode, from his failure to help his brothers back during the final fight with Shredder, to his losing against the giants and demon spirits. And the Ancient One was a hilarious character. "What? Its just air!" Very funny. I haven't laughed that hard at an animated show in a long time. Looking forward to next week's episode.

Raph's Girl

12-12-2005, 01:09 AM

Looking forward to next week's episode.

Next Week's ep is a rerun of "Cousin Sid" except for in the certain areas where it's pre-empted for Football.

Good thing I already saw "Cousin Sid" cuz I dun wanna get up at 4:30am Sunday Morning to see it. Gah!

TheShowstoppa

12-12-2005, 02:31 AM

heh... I slept in too. Again, luckily, DVR is there to save my tail! I'm gald they're going to rerun a couple of eps because that helps me out. I don't have Cousin Sid or The People's Choice on DVR yet.

I think it's time for Leo to move on. It's a good thing too. I hated having a cool Raph and a psycho Leo. I just wonder how long it is going to be until we finally see him go against Karai... since we know she's finally lost it. Dammit too! I was hoping to see some of Vol 4 worked into the storyline of Season 4. However, I wonder how long it will be until the Utroms come back?

Turtle Dove

12-12-2005, 10:48 AM

Next Week's ep is a rerun of "Cousin Sid" except for in the certain areas where it's pre-empted for Football.

:o Girl you got too much rime on your hands. and let therecord show,Football is annoying cause it takes all the timeslots

DIrishB

12-12-2005, 06:12 PM

Next Week's ep is a rerun of "Cousin Sid" except for in the certain areas where it's pre-empted for Football.

Good thing I already saw "Cousin Sid" cuz I dun wanna get up at 4:30am Sunday Morning to see it. Gah!

Huh...so it rerun season already, is it? Thats fine though, as I haven't seen that episode yet (I missed the first 6 episodes of Season 4 and have been catching up via DL them).

heh... I slept in too. Again, luckily, DVR is there to save my tail! I'm gald they're going to rerun a couple of eps because that helps me out. I don't have Cousin Sid or The People's Choice on DVR yet.

I think it's time for Leo to move on. It's a good thing too. I hated having a cool Raph and a psycho Leo. I just wonder how long it is going to be until we finally see him go against Karai... since we know she's finally lost it. Dammit too! I was hoping to see some of Vol 4 worked into the storyline of Season 4. However, I wonder how long it will be until the Utroms come back?

I'm sure we'll see a big Turtles vs. Karai and the Foot in a multi-part season finale. I'm wondering when we'll see the Utroms again as well though.

J Legault

12-12-2005, 09:10 PM

Makes me wonder how Hamoto Yoshi reacted when he first met the Ancient One. And how he would have to get use to the Ancient One's habit of "Air".

zkarlette

12-12-2005, 09:55 PM

The Ep was kind of surreal first Leo screams and wounds master splinter and then Splinter tells him to leave to Japan basically he got the boot.

Then even tho he made good points the hole farting situation made it hard to take it serious plus Leo being called a baby poppy face several times :ohwell:

Lets see what happens after this one.....

onyx

12-14-2005, 04:51 AM

Spitfire

12-14-2005, 08:32 AM

Now, to the beginning of the episode, when Leo cut Splinter...
Is it not possible Splinter let Leo cut him? It's obvious to me he wanted Leo to see the Acient One and that was the reason he needed. He was trying to show Leo what his anger can do.

That's not Raph. He goes all mad when Leo damaged his punchbag, but he does nothing when Leo cuts his sensei?
Raph probly understands what Splinter is doing and it's obvious he's happy to see Leo go. Plus if he did anything his brothers and Splinter would stop him rather quickly.

Since when Japan is on another planet? How come we never saw people there, except for the farting Ancient One? Instead we got Yeties and Ghosts...
I wasn't aware that humans walked through desolate moutain ranges filled with demons and monsters freely.

Speaking of Yeties, what exactly were they doing there?
They were there to show Leo that he's not all that. They were there to teach him defeat. That whole problem with Leo was he couldn't accept defeat.

IceFlash78

12-14-2005, 09:40 AM

Is it not possible Splinter let Leo cut him? It's obvious to me he wanted Leo to see the Acient One and that was the reason he needed. He was trying to show Leo what his anger can do..

When a hero falls to the dark side, it often takes the death of a loved one, or at least the potential of descrustion for the hero to realize how far he has fallen. Splinter probably knew that, and let Leo hurt him so that Leo would be aghst and realize just how descrustive his behavior has become, and seek out help. Its pretty typical plot point... so of course I can't think of any examples....:roll:

Raph probly understands what Splinter is doing and it's obvious he's happy to see Leo go. Plus if he did anything his brothers and Splinter would stop him rather quickly..

True... I would imagine that Raph is itching for a chance to act as a leader for a short while.

onyx

12-14-2005, 11:01 AM

Is it not possible Splinter let Leo cut him? It's obvious to me he wanted Leo to see the Acient One and that was the reason he needed. He was trying to show Leo what his anger can do.

How could Splinter know what Leo would do? What if Leo wounded him heavily or even killed him?

Plus if he did anything his brothers and Splinter would stop him rather quickly.

That was never enough to make Raph not act ;)

I wasn't aware that humans walked through desolate moutain ranges filled with demons and monsters freely.

Of course, Japan is full of them :D

They were there to show Leo that he's not all that. They were there to teach him defeat. That whole problem with Leo was he couldn't accept defeat.

To me, Demons were there to teach Leo defeat. Yeties were there to teach him not to fight when he's angry, they even said it.

LUCKFF

12-14-2005, 11:22 AM

To me, Demons were there to teach Leo defeat. Yeties were there to teach him not to fight when he's angry, they even said it.

NOT NECESSARILY TEACH HIM DEFEAT. HE AND HIS BROTHERS HAVE BEEN DEFEATED BEFORE. BUT MORE HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.LEO NEVER BATTLED THE YETI'S NOR THE GHOSTS NOR THE ROCK WARRIOR. HE ONLY BATTLED HIM SELF.

The Symbolism Was Nifty In This One. The Demons Obviously Represented Leo's Own Demons. The Fact That The Only Way To Defeat The Demons Was To Fail. And Failing Is One Of The Demons Leo's Has Been Battling. I Think Leo Learned A Very Valuable Lesson Right There. Leo Himself Describes The Symbolism With The Rock Monster: "I Hardened My Heart Like A Rock, Wrapped Up Inside My Own Shell."-leo. This Is Why Leo Was Inside Of The Rock Monster. I Love Stuff Like That.

onyx

12-14-2005, 11:29 AM

LEO NEVER BATTLED THE YETI'S NOR THE GHOSTS NOR THE ROCK WARRIOR. HE ONLY BATTLED HIM SELF.

I agree with that, but I fail to see what were the Yeties symbolizing. While it was pretty obvious with the Demons and the Rock Monster, I don't really understand the Yeties. I can see the moral taken from the battle with them (altough I do not agree with it as I already said), but why Yeties?

iris

12-14-2005, 12:58 PM

I agree with that, but I fail to see what were the Yeties symbolizing. While it was pretty obvious with the Demons and the Rock Monster, I don't really understand the Yeties. I can see the moral taken from the battle with them (altough I do not agree with it as I already said), but why Yeties?
To me, the Yeti sentries symbolized Leo's foolish pride. I am not saying that Leo has a huge ego, but that he had built his pride into a wall that stood between him and acceptance of his mortal limitations. That wall needed to come down, and the Yetis took the first step in smashing it. There was very little hope that Leo could have defeated them, but he took them on anyway and for no reason; they did not attack and he han't yet even finished the conversation with them. And he probably felt foolish afterward.

I think that the Yetis served the secondary purpose of reminding Leo that just because he is no longer a "baby" doesn't mean he has outgrown the basic lessons of his training. Forgetting the simple lessons, such as the value of simply keeping your frustrations in check, renders Leo's "grown up" (more advanced) training and wisdom useless.

Leo knew the don't-let-anger-lead-your-actions lesson... it had been part of his overall attitude when he was "naive", but he chose at this point to ignore it. Perhaps Leo had decided that he was successful enough without it... and he could sometimes, when he face obstacles that he could blindly beat down in a fit of rage. But if Leo felt that he had outgrown Splinter's teachings and no longer needed to abide by them, the Yetis gave him a chiding reminder.

Speaking of Splinter... there's no doubt that he could have prevented Leo from striking him. However, I choose to go with a tiny leap of faith, and accept that Splinter's mastery let him the control the degree of the opening Leo got. IMO, it was probably a test to see how far Leo would go. Leo failed with flying colors.

Hmm... Raphael's reaction? I didn't see this part, but here's my two cents anyway. In Raph's place, I would have been greatly disturbed by my brother's actions. I think Raph (and the rest of them) were too stunned and worried for their normally self-possessed brother to react any other way. Anger would have been secondary. Plus Splinter-sama was right there, and I'm sure they were waiting for his reaction. They know as well as we do that Splinter can take care of himself.

Aska_Badoura

12-14-2005, 09:24 PM

You know, it finally occurred to me what made the landscape of the Ancient One's domain so different!

I always thought the backgrounds in this show were unusual... they're drawings, with the colors very simplified, and everything is outlined in ink, to the point where the background almost looks like a cel in itself. Traditionally, in other shows, backgrounds are painted, so they'll have more complicated shade and shadow than the figures that occupy the space. But I finally noticed that, for the most part, the backgrounds in the fantasy landscape are painted! There are some that are still pretty simple in palette, but even they have a much more subtle color blending going on. All the ones in the "real world" have the usual harsh style. Here's an example: first, a couple of random shots from other eps:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/Zakiyah/stylestudy1.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/Zakiyah/stylestudy2.jpg
And then one in the Ancient One's home. Notice the bag hanging behind Leo, compared to the one in the Turtles' lair, then notice the planks in the ceiling compared to the pic from the Daimyo's palace. Lots more detail, subtle colors... dreamlike, compared to the usual stuff in the show. Even the Battle Nexus didn't look like that. I dunno why they decided to make this place so different, but I like it. Any thoughts?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/Zakiyah/stylestudy3.jpg

Speaking of Splinter... there's no doubt that he could have prevented Leo from striking him. However, I choose to go with a tiny leap of faith, and accept that Splinter's mastery let him the control the degree of the opening Leo got. IMO, it was probably a test to see how far Leo would go. Leo failed with flying colors. Hrm... yeah, you're probably right. I thought at first it might have been an accident anyway, but you guys are starting to convince me that Splinter probably planned it.

Fledermaus

12-14-2005, 09:43 PM

You know, it finally occurred to me what made the landscape of the Ancient One's domain so different!

I always thought the backgrounds in this show were unusual... they're drawings, with the colors very simplified, and everything is outlined in ink, to the point where the background almost looks like a cel in itself. Traditionally, in other shows, backgrounds are painted, so they'll have more complicated shade and shadow than the figures that occupy the space. But I finally noticed that, for the most part, the backgrounds in the fantasy landscape are painted! There are some that are still pretty simple in palette, but even they have a much more subtle color blending going on. All the ones in the "real world" have the usual harsh style. Here's an example: first, a couple of random shots from other eps:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/Zakiyah/stylestudy1.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/Zakiyah/stylestudy2.jpg
And then one in the Ancient One's home. Notice the bag hanging behind Leo, compared to the one in the Turtles' lair, then notice the planks in the ceiling compared to the pic from the Daimyo's palace. Lots more detail, subtle colors... dreamlike, compared to the usual stuff in the show. Even the Battle Nexus didn't look like that. I dunno why they decided to make this place so different, but I like it. Any thoughts?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/Zakiyah/stylestudy3.jpg

Hrm... yeah, you're probably right. I thought at first it might have been an accident anyway, but you guys are starting to convince me that Splinter probably planned it.

Now, imagine if they painted the NYC scapes and sewer... Ahhh... :D

I too am beginning to think Splinter did this all on purpose--he had to know how far Leo would go with his uncontrolled anger.

Duke

12-14-2005, 10:01 PM

Very interesting pick up Aska. Your detail for animation is far greater than mine.

iris

12-14-2005, 10:55 PM

I thought at first it might have been an accident anyway, but you guys are starting to convince me that Splinter probably planned it.
Well, to be fair, I doubt that he planned it more than a moment in advance. I mean, it would be kind of weird to actually premeditate having your kid slice your head open. :goofygri: Not that "weird" is anything new for this family.

I do also find the idea that it was an accident... that Splinter, in his anxiety, had dropped his guard at the same time that Leo surprised them both... to be just as satisfactory.

I immediately noticed the gorgeous watercolor backgrounds in the, um... "realm" of the Ancient One. Very few hard lines... lovingly done highlighting (it was glowy there) and washed colors. I'm really a sucker for that style, but the story was absorbing enough that I forgot about it... which is how it should be.

But I like the regular backgrounds as well because of the way the animation blends in. Breaks the illusion for me if the animation clashes. The regular backgrounds are also beautiful to me.

Spitfire

12-14-2005, 11:40 PM

Looks like the backround in the Ancient One's lair is 3-D to me O_O

Raph's Girl

12-15-2005, 12:57 AM

I agree...the landscape is quite beautiful. However I DID notice something. In the following image if you look real closely you can almost see Littlefoot or maybe even Ducky. :lol: Seriously thanks now I know where the great valley is...and here I thought it was Zion National Park in Utah when all along it was Japan just right after the snow monkeys er I mean Yeti's. :P

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/Dierna/TMNT/AncientOne/GreatValley.jpg

Would have been funny to see a cameo at least by a certain spike tail who's voiced by Rob Paulsen. ;)

Poweranimals

12-15-2005, 01:54 AM

Fledermaus

12-15-2005, 09:29 AM

The comedy was really tasteless this week. It's kind of a shame, because I usually praise the show for its comedy. Anyway, it was good character development at least. It was cool to see Leo get through his inner struggle.

Did you read the past posts? IT WASN'T COMEDY!! IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT PLOT POINT!

Okay, remember when Leo asks Ancient One, "What makes you think you're so worthy?" The Ancient One responds, "This" and lets loose a big one.

That symbolizes that he's not afraid to let go of inner burdens even if it hurts his ego. Dignity and intimidation isn't the first thing on his mind, unlike Leo.

That, if anything, is the joke/pun in the situation, not the individual disgusting liquid farts. These symbolize how put off Leo is by the notion of surrendering, of letting go of these burdens he chooses to carry. It's disgusting and childish, to him--as he first sees the Ancient One.:roll:

Ehhhnghh... I don't think I want to have to defend this decision to make Ancient One... that way. It bothers me that so many of you don't see the rather obvious reason for this. Just go back and read the other posts.

Haha. About the landscapes--didn't you guys think that when Leo and Ancient One were at the campfire, the surrounding landscape looked a lot like Monument Valley?:P (used in a bunch of westerns) Deserts, in mythology, are often places of spiritual confrontation and epic battles. Eg. Jesus in the desert, Israelites wandering in the desert, Western heroes coming out of and disappearing into the desert, Star Wars... And there are many more examplesn I can't think of.:D

Anarky

12-15-2005, 09:49 AM

IT WASN'T COMEDY!! IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT PLOT POINT!

It could also be that you all were overanalyzing once again. I mean, you all do such an awful lot of interpretation. Mikey could walk backwards for two steps and I'm sure one of you would go "That expresses his character in terms of his own shyness due to some childhood accident involving two teletubbies and a half-molten ice cream cone."

Ehhhnghh... I don't think I want to have to defend this decision to make Ancient One... that way. It bothers me that so many of you don't see the rather obvious reason for this. Just go back and read the other posts.

Well, maybe we don't see the TMNT as a highly philosophical program but as a cartoon.

As for my comments to the episode. If that was "Leo's cure" then I'm highly disappointed. I mean, a cruise and "I'm my own worst enemy" doesn't solve anything. That's no cure, that's the first step towards it.

Sewer Bull

12-15-2005, 10:01 AM

Well, maybe we don't see the TMNT as a highly philosophical program but as a cartoon.

http://www.opencourtbooks.com/categories/pcp.htm

Someone should add "TMNT and Philosophy" to this series. Really.

Fledermaus

12-15-2005, 11:06 AM

It could also be that you all were overanalyzing once again. I mean, you all do such an awful lot of interpretation. Mikey could walk backwards for two steps and I'm sure one of you would go "That expresses his character in terms of his own shyness due to some childhood accident involving two teletubbies and a half-molten ice cream cone."

Well, maybe we don't see the TMNT as a highly philosophical program but as a cartoon.

As for my comments to the episode. If that was "Leo's cure" then I'm highly disappointed. I mean, a cruise and "I'm my own worst enemy" doesn't solve anything. That's no cure, that's the first step towards it.

I love you too, Anarky... :) Condescending as you can sometimes be. I am fully aware that this is a cartoon, and not the writings of John Donne or Aristotle. How quick you are to write me off that way. Can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate that. However I have reason to think that the writing in this series is not mindlessly churned out(like in other series), though you have had that decision made up in your mind for quite some time. I can see that the people working on this series care about their work. Otherwise, I wouldn't waste my breath. Fingers.

Now, if you still think I am insane for what I do, just know that I am one who is inclined to analyze how writing works or doesn't work. I don't just enjoy art, I try and understand it. Because I make it. Because my future depends on my ability to make it...:(

Some of us see cartoons as cartoons. Some of us, I guess, see cartoons as philosophy. Others, as money. Some of us see "cartoons" as art. You know, animation, writing, pacing, visual mood. It all counts, because cartoons are another form of storytelling.

Though I think I may be a fish out of water on that one.

I still think that makes a lot more sense than the writers actually being stupid enough to think that fart jokes are still in. That, and the parallel is fairly logical. Weird, oh yes. Disgusting? Good Lord, indeed so. But I made the conjecture because it actually did make sense to me after thinking about the "tools" that went into creating the overall effect. This is a matter of understanding the art, not a matter of understanding the soul.:roll:

I don't think there's yet reason to assume that this episode was "Leo's Cure". From what I can see, it was only the first step, which is acknowledgement of the problem. We'll know for sure whether this episode was supposed to be the final stage of the battle for Leo in later episodes. I agree with you on this, Anarky. If it just ended this way, that would be pretty disappointing. But then, I was disappointed when the turtles didn't kill Shredder in Exodus, so I'm trying to stay a little open on this direction.

Now I better shut up so the wise ones can speak. And go finish some art. Words can be such a drag...;)

Masked Ninja

12-15-2005, 01:34 PM

I agree... I do think that they put a decent amount of thought into this. And even if they didn't intend the fart aspect of it to parallel that, I still prefer to think of it that way. Because otherwise... I hate fart jokes. :dead:

This show has great writing. It also has great animation, and some episodes leave me with my jaw on the floor. This ain't feature animation, but it's sure as heck better than most weekly TV shows (kids' OR adults' cartoons) out there. They get major points... and have earned one fan who sneaks down to her dorm's lobby of Saturday mornings to catch Turtles.

So yeah, overanalyzing. We do it, I know. But seeing as we're aware "it's just a cartoon," we don't need to be constantly reminded of that fact. We're doing what we enjoy, don't rain on our parade ;)

Anarky

12-15-2005, 02:11 PM

So yeah, overanalyzing. We do it, I know. But seeing as we're aware "it's just a cartoon," we don't need to be constantly reminded of that fact. We're doing what we enjoy, don't rain on our parade ;)
But then you're not in a position to say (let's take this episode as an example): "The fart jokes were no fart jokes, they're a symbol of blahblahblah..." because you simply have no official proof to back it up. All you could say is that it's a possibility but not shoving something down someone's throat which only is an assumption.

Besides, it is not a very polite thing to do, but that's just me.

Fledermaus

12-15-2005, 02:48 PM

But then you're not in a position to say (let's take this episode as an example): "The fart jokes were no fart jokes, they're a symbol of blahblahblah..." because you simply have no official proof to back it up. All you could say is that it's a possibility but not shoving something down someone's throat which only is an assumption.

Besides, it is not a very polite thing to do, but that's just me.

Proof?

*rubs tempholes*
I guess I don't really know what you mean. I doubt a single one of us is a writer for the show, Anarky. So no, we will not have hard "official" evidence of this possibility. The most we can do is conjecture and back up our ideas with reference from the show. Which we have been doing.

iris

12-15-2005, 02:50 PM

And now, a poem. :lol:

"duh" by I.K. Underhill

ever words fail to convey
subtle shades of passing days
ever pictures fail to capture
transience in pain or rapture

moving pictures, color, sound
all eyes on the common ground
will depart with separate views
separate hearts know separate hues

Did you read the past posts? IT WASN'T COMEDY!! IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT PLOT POINT!
Fled, I really like your philosophici-- philosopic-- um... your posts that try to explain stuff. But it's a little-known fact of life that hardly anyone reads as closely as you think they will. That's a painful truth for a technical writer like me. Even when people pay close attention, they have inevitably divergent perspectives and values. Take that into consideration. You'll live longer. And I would like that.

I mean, you all do such an awful lot of interpretation. Mikey could walk backwards for two steps and I'm sure one of you would go "That expresses his character in terms of his own shyness due to some childhood accident involving two teletubbies and a half-molten ice cream cone."
Analysis can be fun. Especially when it involves developing a logical interpretation of something ridiculous. Or a ridiculous explanation of something logical, as you like it. Sorry you feel it's forced down your throat. Ick.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/Dierna/TMNT/AncientOne/GreatValley.jpg

Now, I wonder why it's so incredibly warm in that valley compared to the mountain from which we're viewing it? The mountain doesn't appear to be so incredibly different in elevation. Perhaps the valley lies along an active fault line that allows geothermal energy conduction to the surface environment. Why else would the Ancient One's valley have such warm air?

:tangel:

Aska_Badoura

12-15-2005, 09:28 PM

Deserts, in mythology, are often places of spiritual confrontation and epic battles. Eg. Jesus in the desert, Israelites wandering in the desert, Western heroes coming out of and disappearing into the desert, Star Wars... And there are many more examplesn I can't think of. :DWell... some of us believe the Biblical examples of people in deserts to be history, rather than mythology. :p But I understand your point. Besides, the Lord frequently uses situations for symbolism as well. :)

I mean, you all do such an awful lot of interpretation.But it's funnn! Picking apart the psychology piece by piece and driving everyone crazy! :p ;)

If that was "Leo's cure" then I'm highly disappointed. I mean, a cruise and "I'm my own worst enemy" doesn't solve anything. That's no cure, that's the first step towards it.(Be careful. That sounds very much like an analysis. ;)) True. I don't think that's the end of it. There is a rather heavy hint at the end of this ep that the next one will be a narrative of something that happened in Yoshi's life that was similar to what Leo is experiencing now (at least, I hope that's not going to be one of those "off-screen" moments :ohwell: ). There will probably at least be a reinforcement of the foundation that Leo has forged in this ep. And I think the Ancient One will help him build on that foundation, and send him on his way, when Leo can build himself up again on his own.

Someone should add "TMNT and Philosophy" to this series. Really.Hey, cool! I didn't know about those. Add "Gargoyles", too. And probably numerous other animations, I'm sure. Wow, you could go nuts with those.. :p

Now, I wonder why it's so incredibly warm in that valley compared to the mountain from which we're viewing it? The mountain doesn't appear to be so incredibly different in elevation. Perhaps the valley lies along an active fault line that allows geothermal energy conduction to the surface environment. Why else would the Ancient One's valley have such warm air?

:tangel:LOL. You're evil... I think it's magic/astral projection kind of stuff. Yeah. :p

onyx

12-16-2005, 02:12 AM

Now, I wonder why it's so incredibly warm in that valley compared to the mountain from which we're viewing it? The mountain doesn't appear to be so incredibly different in elevation. Perhaps the valley lies along an active fault line that allows geothermal energy conduction to the surface environment. Why else would the Ancient One's valley have such warm air?

I told you, Japan is on another planet according to them :lol:

Raph's Girl

12-16-2005, 02:35 AM

I told you, Japan is on another planet according to them :lol:

Is planet Japan in the same system as Planet Texas and Planet Switzerland??

I saw a special on a major volcanic eruption that occured in the 1800's that was narrated by Cam Clarke (OS Leo) a couple weeks ago and I swear at one point he goes "Meanwhile on planet Switzerland..." :lol:

Cure

12-16-2005, 10:53 AM

Proof?

*rubs tempholes*
I guess I don't really know what you mean. I doubt a single one of us is a writer for the show, Anarky. So no, we will not have hard "official" evidence of this possibility. The most we can do is conjecture and back up our ideas with reference from the show. Which we have been doing.

He's talkin' about when Poweranimals said he ain't like the fart jokes, and you responded in all caps that it was a significant plot point. You can't yell at him for disliking the farting because you think it was a significant plot point. You have no proof that it was.

Sakirules

12-16-2005, 03:16 PM

I missed it.

Whats this I hear Splinter lose to leo?

Fledermaus

12-16-2005, 06:05 PM

I missed it.

Whats this I hear Splinter lose to leo?

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211164 (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211164)

Dread always has very thorough recaps on the episodes.

And you guys think I write too much.;)

Masked Ninja

12-17-2005, 10:49 AM

And he throws in some nice analysis. I used his synopsis for Exodus pt. 2 because my station blanked out from the time Karai stabbed Leo to the Utrom intervention. (Hence, I missed all the carnage :evilgrin: )

DIrishB

12-19-2005, 04:35 AM

Hi everyone, I'm new here, though I have read the forums for some time.

I saw that everyone shared their impressions of the episode, so I decided to point out a few things that no one seems to notice.

First, I'll say that I didn't like this episode. It didn't fit the general plot well and for the most part, the scenes looked like they're made only to take time.

Now, to the beginning of the episode, when Leo cut Splinter... We've seen Splinter dodge impossible situations before, block powerful blows, catch arrows in the air and so on. We've also seen him disarm Leo with almost no effort using his walking stick (if I recall correctly that was in the episode when the Turtles were arguing which weapon is better, I think in season 1). Of course, Leo is growing up and getting better, but how much better can he be? Also, let's not forget that Splinter is an ex-Battle Nexus Champion. And now he gets disarmed twice and very easily by his student, and doesn't even try to dodge Leo's blow when he cut him? In the previous episode, when Usagi was sparring with Leo, the bunny seemed to dodge/block Leo's attacks pretty easily, I doubt Usagi is better than Splinter...

Maybe you're looking at it the wrong way. Splinter is a very intelligent and wise type of guy, and he knows Leo has been battling with his inner demons ever since the final fight with Shredder. He probably also knew that this might be best dealt with through whatever lessons the Ancient One could teach him...even if they were accompanied by a lot of farting. So, as other members have already mentioned, he allowed Leo to cut him, to make Leo feel guilty and more willing to listen to his advice of going to meet the Ancient One. Manipulative, maybe, but all for a good cause.

Also, I really think this should have been the moment when Raph finally jumps on Leo. I've been waiting to see a real fight between them for a long time. Instead, Raph just calls him hothead. That's not Raph. He goes all mad when Leo damaged his punchbag, but he does nothing when Leo cuts his sensei?

Probably because even Raph realized that Splinter might have been seriously injured and that wouldn't be the time to start a childish fight. Even Raph is growing as a character, and that means he's at least a little more level-headed.

Since when Japan is on another planet? How come we never saw people there, except for the farting Ancient One? I understand that Leo was trying to avoid big cities, but still, Japan is pretty crowded, we should have seen at least some people. Instead we got Yeties and Ghosts...

I figure he avoided being seen (for obvious reasons) and we saw the important parts of his journey. Nuff said.

Speaking of Yeties, what exactly were they doing there? They seemed totally unrelated to the plot to me, like placeholders or something. And, the lesson they taught Leo was lame. "He who attacks in anger falls"... Ok, Leo defeated his sensei in the beginning and he was fighting with anger. Leo defeated that "Bebop" assassin in the previous episode (one of the most skilled assassins in his world) and he was fighting with anger. He was fighting with anger in other occasions too (Hun, Elite Guard etc.) and he always won. Suddenly, Leo is useless against those two only because he's angry? It seems to me that Leo must be even stronger in his anger if he managed to defeat Splinter...

Again, I think Splinter let him do that, all as part of a plan to get Leo the help he needed to find inner peace. As for him fighting the other adversaries in anger, sometimes it works, sometimes not. Especially when fighting a creature four times your size.

The other things were nice, I liked the symbolism in the demons and the rock monster, I loved the scenery and the acting, but the sparring, Japan and the Yeties ruined it for me.

I see where you're coming from, I just think you're looking at it from the wrong point of view. This is an episode where a conspiracy theorist mind-set might have been helpful, especially in the case with Splinter's injury. I really do think it was intentional on Splinter's part.

onyx

12-19-2005, 05:31 AM

Well thank you for the detailed reply, but do not forget - all these are theories - you can prove the same amount of them as I can: zero. And if my way of looking is wrong or yours is, only the creators can say ;)

So, as other members have already mentioned, he allowed Leo to cut him, to make Leo feel guilty and more willing to listen to his advice of going to meet the Ancient One. Manipulative, maybe, but all for a good cause.

Watched the sparring several times and still, I can't see Splinter controlling things. Not with that surprised expression when he got disarmed. I simply stopped arguing here because all the others think that he let Leo cut him. I can't make them change their opinion, I can't prove anything, so it's pointless.

Probably because even Raph realized that Splinter might have been seriously injured and that wouldn't be the time to start a childish fight. Even Raph is growing as a character, and that means he's at least a little more level-headed.

How much more level-headed since the previous episode, when he went off because of his punchbag?

Especially when fighting a creature four times your size.

Splinter vs. Drako on the Battle Nexus tournament - end of discussion. Size doesn't matter. To me, the bigger question is "why Yeties?"

You have your opinion, I have mine. I won't try changing yours just because it's different. To me, if they wanted the people to know that Splinter was controlling the situation, they would have given a hint - for example the expression on Splinter's face would have been enough.

longing for leo

12-20-2005, 09:51 PM

Hmmm, maybe Splinter wasn't consciously letting Leo win, but he still may have been checking his own fighting to judge how out of control Leo was. Splinter might have been attempting to keep a good balance between their skill in the fight, but then Leo took him by surprise by going up a level, or something. Perhaps Splinter wanted Leo to see how out of control he'd become, and subconsciously realized that the only way to do that was to let Leo see himself hurting his family. Splinter sure seemed to be asking for it by continuing the fight after he was disarmed.

I agree that it seems unbelievable that Splinter would intentionally let Leo hurt him, and his expressions certainly proved otherwise. :o That's why my take is somewhere in the middle. Splinter was keeping his skills in check, but overcompensated to the point that Leo got a hit in. This shocked them both cause they didn't know that Leo had gotten this bad, and yet Splinter was kinda expecting it. Or was at least prepared for it. *shrug* I don't know, that's just how I made sense of it.

And on the farting topic, I like the idea that it's a metaphor. Even if the writers didn't intend it, a deeper meaning appeals to me much more than "oh, and here's another fart joke, wasn't that clever." :roll: I'd like to think that the writers give kids more credit than that. Sure, the piggyback one got me, but all of the others became really old, really quick.

And I agree that this couldn't have been "the cure," but instead the beginning of the cure. The first step is acceptance, and now he's done that. Great, so let's see the rest of the healing process. I hope we get a few more episodes in Japan, and then even some healing eps in NY...that is unless he comes back to find Karai's captured his bros or something, threatening Leo's new found cure...:ttwisted:

Turtleman100

12-28-2005, 07:31 PM

so is leo ok now or what. The fat farting master was funny.

Leonardo Mystic

12-29-2005, 07:20 PM

I was talking to another Leo fan who is a close friend of mine about this last night, and she agreed. I happened to notice when looking at the screen shots from the Ancient One in the screens thread that something was different than usual about Leonardo's appearance. It actually looked like he'd lost weight.

At first, I thought it was just me, or the way he is being drawn these days. Though when I showed my discovery to my friend, she admitted she thought he looked different too, but she just didn't know what. The idea I presented made the most sense. So I went back searching through screens done towards the beginning of the season, and compared them. Indeed, Leo has lost weight. In A.O., his face is sunken, and his cheek and jaw bones are sharper, more prominent, and even wearing the coat, you can tell he is leaner. I would not be entirely surprised if the case is true. Remember, he refused food completely in "Cousin Sid". It may have continued. He was probably affected to the point it caused to interrupt his normal eating and sleeping patterns.

I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but I thought it was interesting.

longing for leo

12-29-2005, 09:22 PM

Indeed, Leo has lost weight. In A.O., his face is sunken, and his cheek and jaw bones are sharper, more prominent, and even wearing the coat, you can tell he is leaner. I would not be entirely surprised if the case is true. Remember, he refused food completely in "Cousin Sid". It may have continued. He was probably affected to the point it caused to interrupt his normal eating and sleeping patterns.
Yeah, I noticed that too. It makes a lot of sense. And even if he wasn't skimping on food, he's been training so much that he's got to be getting leaner. Plus, he probably didn't eat a whole lot on that really long boat ride, not knowing how long his journey would take (and maybe feeling too seasick to eat anyway) since it was the most noticable after he arrived in Japan, like you said, mainly in the coat. I have to admit that I thought he looked good...but I don't want him to be unhealthy. I wonder if they'll keep it off and make him smaller than the others, or if he'll backslide.

It's interesting that his bros never mentioned anything about it (well, except all the training references). There's a story that comes really close to this in Fanfiction.com. If you look for it, it's only a couple weeks old, so you should be able to find it. It's a good story, albeit a bit depressing.