Focus, The Past And Present

[Spitfire]

Well I was watching the Season 3 DVD of the old TMNT series and I noticed DOn had alot of screen time. He was the main focus of the series. Everytime there was a problem they needed him to solve it and he was always apart of the action. He either threw the first punch or the only punch. I figured I'd watch the other two DVDs and I noticed the same thing. Don was tossing out more orders then Leo. I kind of liked it better that way.

In the new series I notice Don's situtation is the opposite he gets less screen time and isn't the action anymore. I wish he got more time...anyone else notice this.

[Ra]

I've only seen up to series 3, but I can see your point Spitfire. Especially if something is broken....

Raph asks Don to fix the hotwater system in "The King."
Mike asks Don to make the Battle Shell in "Meet Casey Jones."
Don has to disarm the bomb in "H.A.T.E."

...that's all I can think off for now :tanime:

[longing for leo]

imho, it's unspoken general knowledge that w/out Don they'd all be, well, skrewd. Every single gadget, vehicle, or piece of knowledge they use (& need) was made or used by Don. The writers don't need to point to this fact with flashing neon arrows every time, since it's just such an integral part of the group dynamic. We did get an ep intro (provided by Raph) in Return to NY part 1, saying how much credit they've gotta give Don and how if it wasn't for him...

Plus, Don seems to always be the one to have to deal with feeling angsty/heartsick. Obviously his feelings for April (the kiss on the cheek in Return o Nano, and the whole him saving her "Donny I could kiss you!" "Really!?!" thing in Space invaders) are the most developed, but also the Jhanna thing, plus Angel dying in the Darkness W/in (what was up w/ that?). And he got by far the most angsty/dark time travel arc ep, arguably the best of the season, SAiNW. He seems to have the deepest feelings, which are constantly being explored.

Ok, granted Leo does shadow him (and everyone else), but besides Leo, I don't think that anyone else has more importance or screen time than Donny. Really, I think that Raph and especially Mikey are often cheated. Mikey's usually written off as a joke or wimp, and Raph's labled as the hothead. They aren't normally explored any more deeply than that.

Even though Leo's my fav, I agree that there should be more focus on all 4 turtles equally, even if it's not at the same time (but I would argue that the best eps are those that are full of group dynamic & character development). I wish we could see/hear what the guys really feel about themselves, each other, and life in general, rather than simply fighting the next alien threat or whatever.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I wonder where the TMNT would be without Donny............................................. ....oh wait...

[Spitfire]

Raph and Mikey get more solo episodes then Donny. They also talk more and alot more happens between Raph and Leo then Donny and anyone. Mikey atleast has the comic relief going for him. Don is there but like you said he isn't made as apparent because everyone knows his inventions. I hope this new story where he becomes a monster gives him the attention he deserves.

[VaughnMichael]

Well I was watching the Season 3 DVD of the old TMNT series and I noticed DOn had alot of screen time. He was the main focus of the series. Everytime there was a problem they needed him to solve it and he was always apart of the action. He either threw the first punch or the only punch. I figured I'd watch the other two DVDs and I noticed the same thing. Don was tossing out more orders then Leo. I kind of liked it better that way.

In the new series I notice Don's situtation is the opposite he gets less screen time and isn't the action anymore. I wish he got more time...anyone else notice this.
I think this will all change very soon in the new show so don't worry about it :)

[Zelda]

I actually find him a lot more noticable in the new series... while he doesn't have a lot of really focused 'this is DON' episodes...it does seem like every time you see him, it's really strongly. He also has a lot more depth to him instead of just being the machine guy. I never paid much attention to him before but I LOVE him in the new series.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Raph and Mikey get more solo episodes then Donny. They also talk more and alot more happens between Raph and Leo then Donny and anyone. Mikey atleast has the comic relief going for him. Don is there but like you said he isn't made as apparent because everyone knows his inventions. I hope this new story where he becomes a monster gives him the attention he deserves.

Raph hasn't gotten a solo in a long time. But it's true. Leo and and Mike have been getting alot of focus. But I guess thats Pete's way of giving something to them since Don and Raph are the creator's favorites.

[Spitfire]

Raph and Leo both have been the focus ever since the Shredder battle in my opinion. They bicker with each other alot. And now that Leo is being trained in Japan I'm sure Raph is going to become leader and thus become focus again. But we won'y know till we see it.

[longing for leo]

Raph and Mikey...talk more and alot more happens between Raph and Leo then Donny and anyone. Mikey atleast has the comic relief going for him. Don is there but like you said he isn't made as apparent because everyone knows his inventions.
I think that it's just in his character/nature to not talk that much. He's not exactly shy, but he likes to just stand back observe and annalyze most of the time. That's what I meant by being "deeper." He doesn't wear his emotions/thoughts on his sleeves. Granted, this makes for less talking &/or focus on him in general, but I think the writers are doing this on purpose, just because it's who Donny is.
Raph and Leo both have been the focus ever since the Shredder battle in my opinion. They bicker with each other alot. And now that Leo is being trained in Japan I'm sure Raph is going to become leader and thus become focus again. But we won'y know till we see it.
Hmm, that would be cool, but I don't see it happening. I don't think the writers will spend much time with Leo out of the spotlight. I do agree that they should, cause it would be really cool. Not to mention important to the story to not cut out months of time and bonds developed between those 3 bros & Splinter. But I don't see Raph butting in on Leo's job. As much as he teases & they fight, I think that Raph respects and even likes the higherarchy of the clan just the way it is. He's such a supportive beta bro, I really think that more than anything he'll be missing Leo the most. As you said, "alot more happens between Raph and Leo." The writers seem to be showing a lot more interation between those two, suggesting that they're closer/hang out more. Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there, but I can list so many instances where Raph is really scared for Leo, screams Leo's name, puts a hand on Leo's shoulder and says it's ok, goes on fun training runs, bickers cause he cares and wants Leo to work his probs out, cries over Leo's prostrait body, helps Leo remake his swords... there's just so many! :P I just think that the writers are trying to really get it in our heads that Leo and Raph are close, so it would make the most sense if Raph gets a little down/worried during the months that Leo's gone. I do really hope that we'll get to go back and forth between Leo in Japan and his family in NY...oh, and that story about Master Yoshi, I felt cheated when the ep ended there.

Honestly, I think it's just as likely that Don will take over. He was sure playing the part in the People's Choice and Sons of the Silent Age. I think he's got great potential. The best thing would be for all three of them to work together equally. I don't really think they need to pick out a leader for three people. This is a chance for Don to shine more, whether he becomes leader or not...Wouldn't it be crazy if he becomes Gimera while Leo's away? Man, what kinda never-leave-the-house complex would that give Leo if he comes back and one of his brothers has become a monster? And what if Don can't talk/goes crazy? That would mess with my head, and Leo's frame of mind is already delicate.

[Doppleganger]

Actually I do think Donatello gets a lot of focus. But like he is, it's a lot more subtle than stand alones or huge storyarcs (like with Leonardo). I think the writers leave it up to the audience to imagine how he feels. Honestly I think he's in a lot of pain. :( I mean he's had THREE crushes (Sydney, April, and Janda) and he's been turned down three times not even he's never even gotten to say anything. Prime Leader Zanramon has hurt him and so has that trip to New York in the future. Do you think any person could just shrug this off and walk away? No. But Donatello doesn't let it get to him and he doesn't show the hurt. He hides it away and he hides away in his lab, or talks to April and Casey.

Could he break down like Leonarda has? Perhaps. Only time will tell.

[Turtle Dove]

Raph and Leo both have been the focus ever since the Shredder battle in my opinion. They bicker with each other alot. And now that Leo is being trained in Japan I'm sure Raph is going to become leader and thus become focus again. But we won'y know till we see it.

Oh dang. And you know Raph wants to be leader.He has said it before in "Tales of Leo" Something tells me there might a fight between Leo & Raph when Leo returns from Japan. I hope it'sa good fight:D

[Ra]

I hope this new story where he becomes a monster gives him the attention he deserves.
*nods* I agree. I actually hope there will be a little more focus on Don's and Raph's relationship with each other. Don is usually portaied as the brother that Raph can really stand. We've alread got an episode of them working together in H.A.T.E., so why not try and illustrate that they have a firm bond or something?

Something tells me there might a fight between Leo & Raph when Leo returns from Japan. I hope it'sa good fight:D
I actually think that Raph will probably go off in a huff and will live at Casey's for awhile. Either that, or they both start fighting with each other with their weapons O_o

[Jester]

I don't...I think Raph will be just as happy when Leo gets home as the others. Raph's veying for the leadership role ended years ago, he and Leo just butt heads because they have difrent ideas about what to do.

[Fledermaus]

I don't...I think Raph will be just as happy when Leo gets home as the others. Raph's veying for the leadership role ended years ago, he and Leo just butt heads because they have difrent ideas about what to do.

Yeah, but that was back when Leo was apparently fit for leadership. Raph seems to have gotten most ticked by Leo's behavior--slicing Splinter and whatnot. And while he may accept Leo into the FAMILY with open arms, he might not think Leo should assume his position as LEADER automatically on return--and Leo may disagree.

The point? As Don has seen the worst results of fighting between Leo and Raph (SAINW) we may see him get more involved. Maybe. Assuming things play out this way for Raph and Leo.

[longing for leo]

I don't...I think Raph will be just as happy when Leo gets home as the others. Raph's veying for the leadership role ended years ago, he and Leo just butt heads because they have different ideas about what to do.
*nods* That's how I see it too. More on why later.
Actually I do think Donatello gets a lot of focus. I think he's in a lot of pain. I mean he's had THREE crushes...Prime Leader Zanramon has hurt him and so has that trip to the future. Do you think any person could just shrug this off and walk away? No. But Donatello doesn't let it get to him and he doesn't show the hurt. He hides it away...Could he break down like Leonarda has? Perhaps.
Yeah, a lot of crud's happened to Donny, & he never lets anyone (us included) see his emotions. There's no way all that stuff didn't affect him, but I don't think that he'll break down. If he hasn't by now... But honestly, I don't understand him at all on this point.
And you know Raph wants to be leader.He has said it before in "Tales of Leo" Something tells me there might a fight between Leo & Raph when Leo returns from Japan. I hope it'sa good fight
Well, I already stated why I don't think this is likely, so I'm interested in reading why everyone (except Jester & I) think they will. :-? Seriously, I AM interested, cause I just don't see it.
Yeah, but that was back when Leo was apparently fit for leadership. Raph seems to have gotten most ticked by Leo's behavior--slicing Splinter and whatnot. And while he may accept Leo into the FAMILY with open arms, he might not think Leo should assume his position as LEADER automatically on return--and Leo may disagree.
Raph respects Splinter and his judgement. Splinter seems convinced that this pilgrimage will make Leo "ok" again. Raph doesn't really have any reason to challenge Leo upon his return, does he? Why would Raph want to be leader? He knows that he's no good at strategy, and is a hothead. And he knows that that's not a quality you want in a leader, hence why he was getting uneasy and then just ticked off at how Raph-ish Leo had been getting. I figure Raph is hoping like shell that Leo will be all better or they'll all be in trouble. I don't know what Raph would want to do. Go out on patrols and beat on Purple Dragons? He had the chance to do that with Leo and Casey but didn't. And I don't think Raph has anything personal with Karai or would want to find Bishop. So why would he want to be leader?

I suppose if Raph did, it would be to protect/take care of his bros because he thought Leo wasn't looking out for the family enough. I can understand that, but I don't think that Raph would be any better for the family's protection in that area. He doesn't usually think ahead, and once the "good" Leo's back, then we'll have someone who can. As soon as Raph and Leo start talking Raph should be able to tell if the "good" Leo is back, and would then have no reason to want to keep Leo from the leadership.
The point? As Don has seen the worst results of fighting between Leo and Raph (SAINW) we may see him get more involved. Maybe. Assuming things play out this way for Raph and Leo.
Ok, I will admit that if Raph and Leo do fight, then this would be an excellent opportunity to see some SaiNW reaction from Don. That would be really cool, and would tie the seasons together well. I do love it when they go back to past issues like that. Although...I really don't want to see a falling out between Raph and Leo! :cry: They're just too close for that.

[Fledermaus]

Ok, I will admit that if Raph and Leo do fight, then this would be an excellent opportunity to see some SaiNW reaction from Don. That would be really cool, and would tie the seasons together well. I do love it when they go back to past issues like that. Although...I really don't want to see a falling out between Raph and Leo! :cry: They're just too close for that.

You an only child? The worst fights I've ever had in my life were with my brother. Doesn't mean we actually hate each other. Fighting is like a staple in sibling rivalry relationships. (Sibling rivalry comes and goes, it gets temporarily resolved until the next 'unfair' gift from Dad and/or Mom upsets the balance). That's also why I'm open to some quarreling between Raph and Leo. Two people have strong personalities... it's almost inevitable.

And cheer up. Sometimes fighting with your loved ones brings you even closer to them in the end.:)

[Sage Ninja]

I think Donatello gets hos fair share of episodes, most of the episodes that he has been in have been rather heavy. Heck I think Donatello has been given quite a bit of attention so far this season, what with the whole "People's Choice" episode, and the episode with the merpeople. And I some what disagree with the assumption that Donatello suffres the most heart sickness. Leonardo seems to be the most agnyst turtle of the bunch. And at one point I would have said Raphael but he does seem to have been put on the back burner in terms of agnyst, but I think that that removal has been nicely been replaced with his maturity and new team oriented attitude. But i agree he needs at least one solo episode for him self this season, like Michaelangelo got.

I would hardly say that Donatello is a back burner character, because he is so important to the team as well as the family. Hell, he creates just about everything that the turtles use.

[Sage Ninja]

In the new series I notice Don's situtation is the opposite he gets less screen time and isn't the action anymore.

Actually that isn't true I think he has grown as fighter, he got the best fighting sequence in Cousin Sid and was really agressive in that episode, and was throughing out orders and being noticeably assertive in the People's Choice. And heck, for three episodes in a row Donatello saved Michaelangelo's butt from getting creamed! Which is surpricing considering Mikey's cockiness about being Nexus Champion, being saved by the turtle who got ousted first in the terminate:lol:

[Spitfire]

I think you all completely missed the point of the topic. He was used every episode for every fight, for every problem. He was almost leader. Now he hardly gets any fight solos, and while he may have his own solo episodes he is still shadowed by the others. Look how easily he was tossed aside in the Nexus? He was the first to be knocked out and after that aside from helping Usagi with Leo he did nothing that whole arc. It doesn't seem as balanced anymore. Each turtle got a fair share of screen time in the old seires. And in my opinion the new series may be better I don't believe it's fair anymore. If my favorite turtle was Raph or Leo I wouldn't notice this at all but since it's Don I guess that's why I notice it.

Let's have one last example, In "Still Nobody" Don and Mikey scare the gangsters away from the old peoples house. Then you don't see either of them again until the end of the episode. You see Raph and Leo the rest of the time. This seems to happe often. In "Dragon's Rising" Who is it on the plane with Casey? Leo and Raph. Mikey and Don get stuck driving. The team up's always seem the same and the screen time seems the same as well. The only episode I can recall where Mikey and Don team up and we see what they do is "Junklantis"

Raph and Leo always have problems and their problems are always the focus. Mikey and Don don't have so many problems so I assume that's why they get less screen time. They don't have as much to whine about and they get over things alot easier. That makes sense and all but the writters need to find creative ways to put them in more often.

[SurfGuru133]

He is a major dork the dude carries around a big stick but he is cool since he makes alot of creatiouns

[Buslady]

Raph & Leo have always bickered; they'll always have differences..it's just part of their relationship. If you wanna look at it scientifically, I've always thought of Leo as Alpha, Raph is Beta...Beta male challenged Alpha males all the time
they're brothers...sibs fight..it's normal...im all for a little sibling uprising. it's normal and bellievable. and i can't spell tpday...pooie

[Jo Dawn]

He is a major dork the dude carries around a big stick but he is cool since he makes alot of creatiouns

*clutches chest* Be still my heart! You say 'dork' like it's a bad thing. ;)

Of course he's a dork. It's why we love him so much. Hehe. :)

[iris]

He is a major dork the dude carries around a big stick but he is cool since he makes alot of creatiouns
It's NOT a stick. :tevil:


And I was gonna stay out of this thread. :lol: See what you did SurfGuru?

I think Leo and Raph have a dynamic and unstable relationship, so it's easier to throw it on the screen and have it look interesting. Don is so laid back and introspective most of the time that it can be more work to present him in an engaging way, visually. I'm not trying to make excuses for the series, but that could be a contributing factor.

But his type of introspective character can make a great semi-neutral POV device in stories. And it can be more interesting to get a rise out of Don because some majorly rad stuff has to be going down for him to lose it.

I guess that stuff goes for Mikey too.

I keep hearing people say they'd like to have seen some fall-out from SAINW with Donny, but from my personal perspective they wrote it in a realistic way. Don wouldn't want anyone to be upset over him; he would try to be cheerful and express himself in quiet, subtle ways. He'd be a little more agressive under stress and maybe a little more mellow when relaxed. Shredder is "shredded" and everyone's getting along, so why should he fall apart? Something drastic would have to happen... and maybe it will.

um... Don's not a dork. He's a geek. :nod:

[Masked Ninja]

Who was it that said Don did nothing in the Nexus arc? Erm... does holding the weird black ninjas off and saving Leo's butt while he was unconscious count as nothing? He was doing some serious fighting there... and the stuff in part 3 (I think) was exceptional animation. Yes, he was knocked out of the tournament early... but he went and did stuff after, AND got an Usagi teamup! Way cool.

I agree with iris... Don's a geek. Which is awesome. He gets plenty of screentime, just not in a dramatic way like the others (especially Leo and Raph, and increasingly Mikey) do. Which fits him personally, I think. He's the most low-key of the brothers, so his appearances in the show are mostly just that: low-key.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Who was it that said Don did nothing in the Nexus arc? Erm... does holding the weird black ninjas off and saving Leo's butt while he was unconscious count as nothing? He was doing some serious fighting there... and the stuff in part 3 (I think) was exceptional animation. Yes, he was knocked out of the tournament early... but he went and did stuff after, AND got an Usagi teamup! Way cool.

I agree with iris... Don's a geek. Which is awesome. He gets plenty of screentime, just not in a dramatic way like the others (especially Leo and Raph, and increasingly Mikey) do. Which fits him personally, I think. He's the most low-key of the brothers, so his appearances in the show are mostly just that: low-key.

I was hoping that maybe they could do episodes based on Sins of the Past and Kaddish. Both were great Don stories, written by Steve Murphy.

[Sage Ninja]

Donatello gets scenes that are just as intence as Leonardo and Raphael. His solo episodes are usually pretty intence and hold a great amount of impact. Michaelangelo's episdes are geneally light and juvinlie and made for comedy, which is good, but i don't want the writters to just disregard him as comic relief. I would like to see a few heavy and intence episdes featuring the goof off of the team. And I agree, Donatello contributes a great deal to the team in like every episde, he is playing some major part in the events that are happenening.

As far as impartance in the team dynimic Donatello is a very important character.

But I agree, as far as screen time goes Rapahel and Leonardo get way more intention than Mike and Don. You would almost think that Donatello and Michaelangelo where mearly foils for these two. I hope the writters change that.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Well technically Grudge Match showed just how formidable a fighter Mikey is in life or death situations. And Reality Check showed that Mikey, contrary to what his brothers believe, can actually use his head in battle when he not only came up with a plan to stop the Sliver, but fugred out how to stop the bomb from wiping out all life in the super turtles dimension.

[iris]

I like that Mikey's moments of brilliance punctuate long stretches of being a goof. I like all the "ordinary" moments. He always has the brain power-- couldn't crack wise like that if he didn't-- but he directs his energy into a bright creative spirit. Some may call that 'comic relief', and mean it derisively, but it's important.

I guess my point is I think Mikey gets about the right amount of dramatic screen time. heh

Donnie is due up for something "out of the ordinary" ...

[longing for leo]

You an only child? The worst fights I've ever had in my life were with my brother. Doesn't mean we actually hate each other. Fighting is like a staple in sibling rivalry relationships...I'm open to some quarreling between Raph and Leo. Two people have strong personalities... it's almost inevitable. And cheer up. Sometimes fighting with your loved ones brings you even closer to them in the end.
lol, I am an only child, actually, so I'm glad to hear that this is normal...& thrilled at the idea of the whole "even closer" thing.
Leo and Raph have a dynamic and unstable relationship, so it's easier to throw it on the screen and have it look interesting. Don is so laid back and introspective most of the time that it can be more work to present him in an engaging way, visually. I'm not trying to make excuses for the series, but that could be a contributing factor.
Makes sense.
But his type of introspective character can make a great semi-neutral POV device in stories. And it can be more interesting to get a rise out of Don because some majorly rad stuff has to be going down for him to lose it.
I guess that stuff goes for Mikey too. I keep hearing people say they'd like to have seen some fall-out from SAINW with Donny, but from my personal perspective they wrote it in a realistic way. Don wouldn't want anyone to be upset over him; he would try to be cheerful and express himself in quiet, subtle ways. He'd be a little more agressive under stress and maybe a little more mellow when relaxed. Shredder is "shredded" and everyone's getting along, so why should he fall apart? Something drastic would have to happen... and maybe it will.
Well yeah, if something drastic did happen, theoretically, then how far would Don go to make sure Leo didn't leave? Would he figure "it's just normal alpha/beta male/sibling rivalry," or tell them about his sainw experience? I just hope they address it. I know that Don's not the type to bring it up, but I hate something so potentially plot thickening to just lie fallow.
But I agree, as far as screen time goes Rapahel and Leonardo get way more intention than Mike and Don. You would almost think that Donatello and Michaelangelo where mearly foils for these two. I hope the writters change that.
Hmm, I know what you mean...but I think that the writers go in trends. They usually focus on one bro, or the relationship between 2, in an ep or arc, and make the others foils then. Later, the roles are reversed. Granted, Leo's been getting more than his fair share...but if the character calls for it...

We can't say that the writers should just make up some angst for Don and Mikey when that's just not the way their characters handle it. The cartoon's reflecting life...it doesn't go the way you want/planned it either. Some people get more attention, some people have more crud happen. I like the fact that the writers are being so realistic (well, w/in the perspective)
um... Don's not a dork. He's a geek.
Lol, I second that. I bet he'd like the movie, "Revenge of the Nerds." The geek gets the girl, just like Don. Hmm, geeks must be ladie's men. :lol: And leave Don's bow staff alone! :P

[Doppleganger]

Lol, I second that. I bet he'd like the movie, "Revenge of the Nerds." The geek gets the girl, just like Don. Hmm, geeks must be ladie's men. :lol: And leave Don's bow staff alone! :P

Well...that's not exactly true. Have you seen the kind of luck Donnie has with women? :P