as much as I prefer the old toon to the new toon...

[lilonardo]

Don't you think it is a bit racist that in the old toon, they had a white Baxter Stockman, unlike the Mirage Comics, of which had a black Baxter Stockman?

[remix17]

Actually, I believe they made Old Toon Baxter white because of how Old Toon Baxter acted. He was a sniveling little lackey that only functioned as Shredder's abused and unappreciated manservant before he became a fly. He even said "Master" to Shredder. Think back to the eighties, and the backlash that could have caused. It wouldn't have been pretty. :)

[BartAllen]

Yeah, i think he was changed into a white guy because of the time and his character.

[Mobius One]

Wow, good call. I never realized that before.

[Sewer Bull]

Don't you think it is a bit racist that in the old toon, they had a white Baxter Stockman, unlike the Mirage Comics, of which had a black Baxter Stockman?

The other way round would be even more racist.

[remix17]

True. At least, it would have SEEMDED that way. Old Toon Baxter did everything but lick Shredder's boots.

It was cool when he turned on Shredder in the Eye of Sarnath arc though. :D

[Seurat]

Yeah, I'm quite sure that the cartoon's producers were being anything but racist when they changed Baxter's skin color. I'd heard a there was a similar issue on The Simpsons; in an early episode where Homer was fired, tried to commit suicide, but then became an activist for safety, there was a bit of a mix-up with the people who colored the cartoon. Smithers, Mr. Burns' boot-licking, butt-kissing, brown-nosing lacky, was accidentally colored to look like an African-American in his first appearance. Feeling that a subserviant black man was pushing things too much - even for The Simpsons - Smithers was changed back to white - er, yellow - in his next apperance. I think that the guys at TMNT had the same thoughts in mind.

[VaughnMichael]

to me the most racist thing that happend with the old show was not in the show its self but in the toy line...
we all know bebop was black before he got mutated...but when the mutating toy came out he was white...I remember even as a kid being ultra ticked about that.
-Putrescent

[Buslady]

I remember that...Bebop was a big buff black dude...

[Masked Ninja]

They were probably just worried that people would read into it more than it deserved, so they made him generic and white. Because people like to blow things like race and "hidden meanings" out of proportion sometimes. It's one of those things that drive me nuts.

[Seurat]

Perhaps they feared backlash about having their only black action figure a bad guy.

[lilonardo]

I thought it was Rocksteady who was a black human before turning into a Mutant

[Sewer Bull]

Rocksteady was Causasian and blond.
Bebop was black and had violet punk haircut.

[lilonardo]

another racism issue:

The movie "The Haunted Mansion" features a black actor (Eddie Murphey (spelling? ) ) as the main character, but The Haunted Mansion Xbox videogame features a white person as the main character

[SurfGuru133]

Ya man add a whip in shredders hand doubled with keeping the dude black = slavery

[DrSpengler]

How come nobody ever calls Akira Toriyama a racist for making General Red's lacky servant a black guy named..."Black"?

Because it's only racist when WHITE people do it, silly! :roll:


In all honesty, I always figured they changed Stockman's ethnicity to cash in on Back to the Future (his appearance always gave me a Doc Brown-vibe for some reason) or just to confrom to the stereotypical "mad scientist" look. Kinda like how they cashed in on Friday the 13th by making Casey a psychotic madman just because he was wearing a hockey mask.

As far as the Bebop toy being white goes...yeah, that might've had something to do with politics. There's been a long history of racist attacks toward black people by comparing them to animals liek crows and monkeys. Unfortunately, such things still exist, and most prominantly at British soccer games.

Playmates probably didn't want to make themselves look racist by having a black person mutate into a warthog. But then, people screamed "RACIST!" anyway because they changed his skin color. Lose-lose situation, I guess. :roll:

[Drtooth]

How come nobody ever calls Akira Toriyama a racist for making General Red's lacky servant a black guy named..."Black"?

Not to mention he gave the character what I like to call "Kinnikuman" lips. Made him look like an old 1940's "coal Black and the Sebbin dwarves" type racist cartoon. But he isn't American, so it doesn't count. (I'm playing off a joke about how non-Americans can be less politically correct, since their aren't that many different people about)

I agree that they just wanted to cash in off of the wacky scientist craze.

But then this draws the question.... what are the boundaries of political correctness? You cannot have a black bad guy, since it might be racist, but isn't it also racist to generisize villains as white? I mean, the one lesson kids SHOULD learn is that someone's race or religion doesn't categorize them as good nor bad, but rather their thoughts and actions. But then again, I don't think I've seen many popular Non-whites in cartoons until recently. I mean, Fat Albert was the first cartoon to even star non-whites in a non-stereotyoped role (Asian stereotypes from the 60's do NOT count). It's all a gray matter here (joke intended as the situation is neither Black nor White). I mean,l they should have had black villians, as long as they have black heroes. Balances it out.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

In the 1987 TMNT cartoon, there were many criminal street gangs who tried to rob people on their money. There were often both black and white street gang members. That was good because it shows that a a bad guy is a bad bad because he do bad things, not because of his color of skin.

[Sage Ninja]

you know i remember when I was younger watching the first episde of the TMNT with a friend of mine whomis black, and when he saw that Bebop was actually a black dude before mutation looked at me and said "oooh, so the black guy gets turned into a pig, huh. Why did they have to make him a pig?" he didn't like that and even started to dislike TMNT a little after wards as a result.

Chris even started pointing out that between Bebop and Rocksteady, Bebop was the most passive and didn't talk as much as Rocksteady did. He even argued that Bebop was depicted to be a little dumber than Rocksteady was.

And you know I disagree with most of what he said , but I think it is true that of the two of them Rocksteady tended to have more presence than Bebop did, and had more lines, where Bebop just tended to stay quite.:|

Personally I don't think one was dumber than the other, and that the orginating race that they where before mutation had nothing to do with the animals that they choose to mutate them as.

[Turtle Dove]

Perhaps they feared backlash about having their only black action figure a bad guy.

Oh man. I have to say something. In Houston Texas we have this black guy leader dude who whines about anything of a "Bad Black guy" and calls it racist!

Anyone know that New York Underground game? What is on the cover? A Black guy in shades with a gun right? Well this guy protested and it was on the news here in Houston....that it was VERY offensive to black people because it was stating that black people carry guns. Plus the fact this huge billboard was placed in a black neighborhood that was a reason to protest and demand the sign down. :roll:

Well that sign is still there, this man needs to quite complaining and spend his time telling the trouble makers to quite making the rest of them look bad and leave video game signs alone. Don't like the sign? Don't buy the game

and back to topic, sad but yes the 80's TMNT cartoons where a bit racist. In fact ALOT of the 80's cartoons where, they didn't change their ways till the 90's.

[Sage Ninja]

sad but yes the 80's TMNT cartoons where a bit racist. In fact ALOT of the 80's cartoons where, they didn't change their ways till the 90's.

I would have to disagree on the notion that TMNT was racist. Heck the classic TMNT show was nothing if not a mediphore (sp:ohwell: ) for racism.There was a whole lot of under currents of racism and general intolerants that the turtles had to put up with. It was one of the few serious elements of the series that was pulled off rather well in my opinnion. I mean almost every character had some sort of ignorant racism toward the turtles. From Mr. Burns young girl friend, calling him a "lousy turtle lover" to mobs of people hurling out threats like "we don't want your kind around here" at the turtles. All this was pretty much showing how people act (usually in ignorance) toward people that are different than them.

And in the Red Sky arc of the series this racism aspect of the show that the turtles had to deal with intencified

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

"Splinter no more" is a serious episode about racism. Many people in that episode are afraid of Splinter because he is different.