New Ep Discussion: "Scion of the Shredder" [Archive]

Machias Banshee

02-01-2006, 01:14 PM

That's right, folks! After weeks of eager anticipation, the next Newest Episode is exploding onto your TV screen this Saturday!!!

And as always.. it is my obligation--and utter joy-- to revv up the inquiring minds. :evilgrin:

As we saw previously on "The Ancient One", Leonardo was sent to Japan to learn under a new Sensei to deal with his personal issues. Now with Leo gone, you would think things would be a bit quiet. No inter-dimensional travelers coming for his head, no attacks from the government, nothing...

Think Again!!

It is only the calm before the storm. Or maybe even the eye...? The Hamato Clan isn't the only group that has been using this time for important matters. It could possibly be the worst blow suffered by our heroes since--- possibly Ever.

Now, for those that do not know, 'scion' means 'descendant' or 'heir'. So unless we have some strange Episode of Jerry Springer come up with the title "I had an alien overlord's Baby"... I think we all know who it might be.

And it makes you wonder what the Purple Dragons have been doing in the time between Leo leaving and up to current time. Will we be seeing 'siblings' joining forces again to avenge their 'father'? Or will ties be broken... bridges burnt?

And for those of you who have stopped by the Official site today, you will be rather surprised at a turn of events in the upcoming Season FIVE. Could Donnie's Alternate Dimensional Nightmare come true? Who knows! I shouldn't even be writing about THAT anyways! :P

So prepare your TV stations! Get those VCR tapes rewound and set on time to record! Stock your sugary cereal reserves and set up camp, whether it be on your couch, living room floor, or your dormitory lounge!

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CLAN?!
WHAT HAS KARAI BEEN DOING BEHIND THE SCENES?!
WILL LEO COME BACK TO A DEATHZONE?!
JERRY!JERRY!!JERR-- Waitasec...

And even though it may results in nuclear fangirl warfare whenever I say it...

:evilgrin: STAY TUNED!!! :evilgrin:

Machias Banshee

02-04-2006, 09:01 AM

Hot Damn we're open!!! :o :o :o

Kiss_My_Shell

02-04-2006, 09:04 AM

This episode was pretty sad. I think we can say that we know the guys are alright.

When Raph asked Don about the time and he replied"ask Leo..". I was like"wow that's gotta hurt". :(

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

02-04-2006, 09:11 AM

:o :( That is what I'm feeling with this episode. Oh the carnage! Leo is going to be super pissed when he gets back.

syk_skillz

02-04-2006, 09:11 AM

Wow what a great episode. Did anyone else notice the animation was just a slight bit better and smooth in most of the episode. I can't wait until next week.:D

Katie

02-04-2006, 09:12 AM

What a wild ride!

Maybe we shouldda been keeping a closer eye on karai. she put the foot on steroids or something.

So, Leo's been gone for two months and it sees like things have been pretty quiet. But, much like Mikey's house of cards, stability is an illusion. Pressure builds up....and just one little thing sends the false security into chaos. Ok...one really big thing...that has been nursing a grudge it seems.

I wonder how well Leonardo is going to remember the lessons he has learned when he comes home to find his home in shambles and his family missing. I wonder how fast April made it down to the lair....only to find it junked.

This is SUCH a great show!~

Rhane

02-04-2006, 09:18 AM

This is only me i'm sure, but this ep made me wanna hit something. It was fine and well in animation and voice acting, but the underlining plot of "everyone's dead and only Leo can save them all" it just overdone and to be honest, annoying in my oppinion. This could be my bias against leo talking though so don't take any of this to heart. Also the next ep's title is "the Prodigal Son ". That should NOT be anyone's new title ((and by looks of the preview, it's Leo's)). Raising one turtle above or below the others is just going to a) get people mad b) start wars between fans c)put way too much spotlight on one character.

On a side note, how did April not know it was Karai? The "stranger" Spoke like Karai, acted like Karai, she IS Karai. Sorry if i offend, just alot of frustration.

rayfillet101

02-04-2006, 09:23 AM

stege-chan

02-04-2006, 09:32 AM

BigApple3AM

02-04-2006, 09:33 AM

Kind of disappointed as nothing truly happened in the episode besides fighting and set up. I mean fighting is good, but cartoon fighting is lame when no one truly gets hurt.

The turtles are fine, they pull this junk with us almost every episode arc. Oh no the turtles are in a burning down house, maybe dead? No wait after waiting 6 months for the new episode they just go out the back door instead.

Next week's episode will blow this one out of the water, I wish they woulda have done a back to back deal hour long kind of thing.

Kiss_My_Shell

02-04-2006, 09:34 AM

I loved April's reaction when Karai said how Leo's family was destroyed. You know she's not just gonna stand there.

I can image now Leo's reaction when he goes to the lair. :o

Dan

02-04-2006, 09:36 AM

On a side note, how did April not know it was Karai? The "stranger" Spoke like Karai, acted like Karai, she IS Karai. Sorry if i offend, just alot of frustration. I don't think April every met Karai before.

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

02-04-2006, 09:39 AM

Yeah, other than the alternate future (which, this episode could be exactly what will begin to happen that leads to SAinW) Karai and April have never crossed paths. I really hope she and Casey get their act together and do something in next week's episode. I got a feeling Leo is going to come to them to figure out what to do next.

TerranigmaFreak

02-04-2006, 09:42 AM

Anyone notice the animation mistake with Karai's new Shredder suit? At the end where she laughs as the lair gets destroyed, the Shredder suit looks more feminine? Also, the suit looks more feminine in the episode preview for next week.

I like fighting. I like explosions. I like this episode.

Katie

02-04-2006, 09:44 AM

Doppleganger

02-04-2006, 09:51 AM

For some reason this eppy didn't get me too excited. Glad the guys are all right...probably hiding out at April's, or maybe Casey's or Leatherhead's? April didn't look quite surprised enough when Karai told her the others were dead. As for Karai herself, I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I feel sorry for her. Oroku Saki has messed up her head but good. She's been lied to her whole life, and she's in some serious denial. Either she's gonna realize the truth eventually, or she'll be smacked in the face with it. And maybe I'm in the minority again, but I see salvation for her in the end.

I just wonder next week how Leo is gonna find out that his family is still alive...I was looking to see if Splinter or one of the others left some kind of clue in the lair, but I didn't see anything. I guess Leo could assume they got out though, since all their vehicles, and Klunk are gone.

>.> Okay's, that's all I've got for now. ^^

Ah don't worry you're not alone, I too feel for Karai. ^^;;; *waves tiny Karai support flag and quickly hides it* I mean the Shreddar was the only father she's known. And then the turtles destroyed him, with good reason, but they destroyed him. How would you expect she should feel? Glad? Yes this is a very sad episode because Karai is in the exact same place Leo used to be. That maniacal laughter...she's not exactly in a very healthy state of mind. :( She needs guidance. She needs someone good in her life to make her see the error of her ways (and no I don't necessarily mean romance :P). But most of all she needs help professional help!

Okay when Splinter said he "reached out to her". That confused me. When did he ever do this? Was it something he did offscreen? I know Leonardo did but when did Splinter? I dunno if he ever did give her a chance.

But yeah I do agree. Nothing justifies murder nothing. Karai has gone over the edge and she needs to be stopped.

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

02-04-2006, 09:55 AM

Oh, I got next week's preview for download if you guys want to check it out. It's a 2.95 MB AVI file. Enjoy it!

http://rapidshare.de/files/12546477/the_Prodigal_Son_preview.avi.html

Sakirules

02-04-2006, 09:58 AM

Amazing episode. I mean truelly

Dan

02-04-2006, 10:15 AM

Wasn't this episode kind of similar to the Image comics? Where Shredder had a daughter and there was a female Shredder?

TerranigmaFreak

02-04-2006, 10:25 AM

I don't think it was a mistake. I have noticed that all the characters move differently....Like you could never mistake Shredder for Karai in Shredder's suit. Or one turtle for another for that matter. I think the reason it looked different was that Karai was the one in it.....not Saki

No, I'm not talking about the movement, I'm talking about the look of the suit. It look completely normal throughout the entire episode EXCEPT for when she's standing there laughing as the turtles' home was being destoryed. It has nothing to do with who's in there. Plus, the suit is metalic, I doubt it'll transform just cause someone else is in it. Watch that part again, then watch next week's preview, even the helmet looks slightly different in the preview.

tOkKa

02-04-2006, 10:35 AM

-->> .. i was shocked by the suprise cameo appearance of Carmen Sandiego in April's shoppe ..

http://www.mindscape.com/Uploads/PressScreenshots/Art16BigImg_Carmen%20perso%20big.jpg

Masked Ninja

02-04-2006, 10:39 AM

I watched this in my dorm basement with my friend this morning... definitely a fun time. :D

She noted that the episode started with that ridiculous "Sewer Sweet Sewer" sign... nice contrast, we thought. And we also liked how everyone used Don's inventions to get out.

And when Don rescued Splinter?! I was all "go Don!" because he usually gets biffed across the room and stuff. But he was kicking trash left and right... and the animation was great for this one. Not quite as impressive as the opening to "Grudge Match," but definitely good.

And as much as I love Leo, two gripes:
1) They showed him (if for 2 minutes). I was kinda hoping to have him completely out of it. At least his voice is back to normal.
2) True... an obvious setup for "Leo comes in and fights Shredder/Karai! yay!"

And while it's kinda disappointing that we can never have a true "OMG! Will they survive?!" moment because of the nature of this type of show... I'm still willing to enjoy the drama. That scene with April and Karai was intense. April has never met Karai face-to-face before... I wonder if she realized just how much danger she was in.

Yay for overanalyzing storms! :thyper: I especially enjoyed Katie's "house of cards" analogy m'self. :D

EDIT: Carmen Sandiego :tlol:

And... the discrepancy with the Shredder suit was likely to fool us into thinking HE was back toward the beginning. Once that was cleared up, they probably pushed toward "feminine" gradually, to match the model sheet they're going to use for Karai as Lady Shredder?

Toonami Tom

02-04-2006, 10:53 AM

Whoa! Karai has become EVIL! I wonder how they found the turtle's lair, and can't believe they destroyed their home! We all know the turtles and Splinter survived, unless they throw in a suprise twist and have Splinter die, which I doubt. Wow, Leonardo is going to be p!$$ed, time for him to open up a six pack of whup @$$ on Karai.

rayfillet101

02-04-2006, 11:02 AM

I remember when 4 Kids or Playmates were doing PR for the 3rd season they said they would be in a Tortuga Bros Bus or Van. I think this is when it happens? I was led to believe it was due to Bishop in the article. does anyone have it>

Mars-Chan

02-04-2006, 11:12 AM

AWESOME EPISODE!!! I was on the edge of my seat the whole.....*pause*...ahem... ON THE FLOOR the whole time! :P

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle wrote:

:o :( That is what I'm feeling with this episode. Oh the carnage! Leo is going to be super pissed when he gets back.

Oh, you KNOW he will, L_W_T! He won't take this thing lying down (if you all will excuse my pun)! I have a feeling good old Leo is going to make sure Karai knows who rules the sewers and how he feels when his family's life is put on the line, just because SHE has a grudge against him. I know *I* would....

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

02-04-2006, 11:12 AM

jeff the cheff

02-04-2006, 11:23 AM

No, I'm not talking about the movement, I'm talking about the look of the suit. It look completely normal throughout the entire episode EXCEPT for when she's standing there laughing as the turtles' home was being destoryed. It has nothing to do with who's in there. Plus, the suit is metalic, I doubt it'll transform just cause someone else is in it. Watch that part again, then watch next week's preview, even the helmet looks slightly different in the preview.

Nah, I think it looked feminine the whole time.

I wish they distorted her voice a little more, though.

Tinuvielsdreams

02-04-2006, 11:24 AM

Jester

02-04-2006, 12:13 PM

I almost forgot to mention it!!! It was interesting to see Mikey's Battle Nexus trophey and Splinter's orb destroyed. The Foot didn't just want to kill them. They wanted to completely destroy their lives. I just can't wait to see Leo's reaction when he returns to the lair.
They also took out Donnie's workshop...I don't remember if there were refrences to the other 2 (Leo's and Raph's) things, like Raphie's bag. Leo's big "thing" that was 'destroied" i gusee could be his home and family. I liked this episode, I must admit that at first I thougt that April and Karai had met, but looking back, they never did, aside from the alternate future SaiNW...which is a slightly diffrent future from this timeline...note Leo and Karai's dialogue in SaiNW. The action was nice, the new look to the foot, elite, and techs was a bit odd. I do think that the Karai/Shredder armor had a feminine aire about it from the very begining as well, but it's all out lady Shredder in the next episode. I think that Splinter should have stood his own a bit better against Karai though. If Karai can beat Sensi, and Leo can beat Karai, then the student has surpassed the master, and where does Splinter's role go. Man, that last thought made me think: What if Splinter didn't survive!?

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-04-2006, 12:14 PM

I believe this episode just kicked I-Monsters ass as the best episode yet. The animation was smooth and fluid, the action scenes went past my expectations, and it perfectly set up the next episode. This is what I've been wating for.

Though, Karai's VA could have been a little better, but, that's a minor problem. Great episode.

Aska_Badoura

02-04-2006, 12:16 PM

:( :-? :x :cry: :evil: :tconfuse: :dead: :teek: :tcouch: :o

I think that about sums it up.

I haven't read anyone's posts in this thread yet, I wanted to talk first.

Where do I start?!! It goes without saying that I'm deeply dismayed. I knew Karai was feeling some Demona-esque psychotic confusion, but she hasn't lived a thousand years, and I thought that would make the insanity a little less extreme.. well, so much for that.

She STEPPED ON Splinter's orb of Yoshi!!

She's gotten to the psychotic laughter stage.

She left the lair in ruins. Everything's gone.

But she should know better than to think the family's gone (so should we!). She knows them better than that. If they could live through all the stuff the Shredder threw at them, what makes her think she can kill them, being less experienced (by default... who else has been here... yeah, I guess it's also been around a thousand years!), and, dare I say it, not as evil?

Splinter's given up on her. That seems like a valid response to the happenings of this ep. I'm going to be a good little fan, and not give up on her yet. The previews for next week look interesting. I hope Leo's well rested and healed now, and able to think as a calm, balanced individual again. It may make up for Karai's maniacal streak as of late. I hope...

I have a one-of-my-favorite-characters-is-now-psychotic headache.

I'll probably have a lot more to write once I've read the other posts.

Drtooth

02-04-2006, 12:25 PM

Does anyone else get depressed during those long months of reruns, waiting to see what the shell the Turtles are up to?

This was a definate beauty. Even though we all know the Turtles are just fine, hiding out somewhere. After all, if they died, season 5 would really be lonley.... Karai, Hun, and Baxter would just be sitting around saying how great it was to get rid of the turtles.... then realizing there's not much else to do.

Anyway, any episode with THIS much destruction is worthy of a long month and a half wait. I'm just wondering what happens now. How DID the turtles get out? Where are they going to live now? Will Mikey get all mopey because his beloved Battle Nexus trophy is destroyed? WIll Karai finally see the light?

You know... all that "Tune in next time, same turtle place, same turtle time," type crap.

longing for leo

02-04-2006, 12:31 PM

I have a one-of-my-favorite-characters-is-now-psychotic headache.
Lol, me too.
Leo is going to be super pissed when he gets back.
Oh, you KNOW he will. He won't take this thing lying down! I have a feeling good old Leo is going to make sure Karai knows who rules the sewers and how he feels when his family's life is put on the line, just because SHE has a grudge against him. I know *I* would...
"A warrior who attacks in anger never wins..."

Hmm, I'd like to believe that this lesson stuck with Leo. Those yetis were making a fool of him, and the Ancient One probably reinforced the message. I'm thinking that he's going to come back to a trashed lair, scream/cry with grief, be confronted by Karai, and he'll attack her out of--dare I say it, (this is going to sound so corny...meh) love. You know, because he loves his family & friends so much. That's the emotion that will be constricting his chest and sharpening his moves, not anger...well, that is, if the AO & the yeti's message stuck with him. I think that the writers are putting him in this position so soon as a sort of "test" to prove that he's healed/has learned something. Maybe he'll even be loosing because of the grief, and then his bros will all come back to the lair and he'll get his energy/motivation back & they'll take Karai down as a team...

But that's just what I'm rooting for. I'll be rather disappointed if it's just Leo attacking Karai out of rightious anger & winning. Actually, what I'm really disappointed with is how they've made Karai into a one-dimensional character. She had depth: she was complex, full of conflicting emotions and codes, definitely not a black/white character. But now, it's like her "good" half was cut off, leaving only the simple, easy to deal with because you can't relate to her, evil enemy. I much prefered her when she was in some degree enigmatic. I liked the multi-dimensional, more real portrayal of her...now she's just...simple/annoying. That laugh...wow, me thinks some of her screws have come loose. Betrayal in the worst form. I really hope she'll let some of her good side show again.

Oh...and I conceide defeat: there is now absolutely no chance that she and Leo will have anything between them. Shell that's disappointing. They had some chemistry...at least as friends. And she even said that they used to be friends. If she considered him a friend, why does she want to kill him now? Ahhh, I don't understand her. Maybe she still has some depth, but not the way I like.

Oh, and where the shell is Leatherhead?! Hun survived, and he doesn't have tough reptilian skin...They could bunk at his place for a while; it's huge. Man, I am really going to miss the lair! It was an Elintian stronghold, for crying out loud...how cool was that! And now what?

I smiled when Raph took responsibility and acted in place of Leo. I always knew he was vp/2nd in command. But...was anyone else surprised that he just left Mikey alone in the lair? Talk about every turtle for himself... At least Mikey thought to rescue Klunk...guess he didn't learn much from Bad Day...you know, about sacrificing yourself for your pet. I'm still glad that he did, don't get me wrong. I love Klunk.

Poor guys...:cry: we'd better get to see some tears from Leo! (going back to that conversation in the screencaps) Real men aren't afraid to cry, and he'll sure have reason to. I can't wait for the reunion...they'd better have time to hug! :P

MasterMole

02-04-2006, 12:31 PM

OH MY GOD.
From this episode on, it is a whole new series. new Foot Mystic elite type things, new foot costumes(that kind of bugged me), new location for the turtles, new vehicles, new shredder.

I was just thinking OH NO the whole time. It was amazing. But what happens with Leatherhead and Fugitoid? They live close by dont they? and Usagi and Gen know where the lair is. I cant wait to see what happens next. I was screaming SAVE KLUNK! and CALL APRIL OR CASEY! the whole time. Karai and April...wow. PLease don't be offended, but I said this before: PLease do not take our Lord God's name in vain. It sure does offend Him and breaks a Commandment which we are all to follow. It really upsets me and should others to constantly see and hear people doing this. God has nothing to do with this topic. We are talking about the Ninja Turtles, not our Holy God. PLease consider saying Gosh or Goodness next time. Just where is the Respect today for our Creator who Loves us so much?! You wonder how much more more of He's gonna stand before He intervenes. Another Tsunami anyone? Pray to God, but just don't go around saying His holy name, unless its for the Right reason.

J Legault

02-04-2006, 12:39 PM

I didn't think Karai would do such a thing.

The new and improved Foot Ninjas destroyed their lair, Turtle Van, Turtle Sub, Turtle Tunneler, Mikey's Battle Nexus Trophy and Splinter's orb gift from the Utroms!

I know our heros had survive those attacks, cause it would suck to only haveo ne turtle around.

Can't wait to see Leo talk some sense to Karai after he hears what she has done.

Looks like their nightmares from "Bad Day" are coming true.

Jester

02-04-2006, 12:44 PM

Just a though, a lot of people (including me) think redemption waits in the wings for Karai. Could this one-dimentional Karai just be a lost Karai who will eventually will be brought back. Leo went from Leo to an almost one-dimentional shadow of his former self and then it would seem almost back again with the help of his family and the Ancient One, maybe the same road awaits karai. Or perhaps as a contrast, she will stay the course on this distructive road, and it will be her end.

LUCKFF

02-04-2006, 12:52 PM

DOES ANYONE HERE ENJOY WATCHING THE TURTLES GET THEIR ASS KICKED? DOESN'T THAT ASPECT BRING A REALISTIC FEEL TO THE SHOW. I CERTAINLY DONT LIKE TO SEE MY HERO'S INVINCIBLE. WELL THIS EPISODE DIDN'T DO THAT. THE FOOT ARE NOT BETTER! IN FACT THEY ONLY HIT THE TURTLES TWICE (DON, MICKEY) NOT COUNTING THEIR MEC SUITS WHO AT TIMES KNOCKED OVER SOME PILLARS THAT LANDED CLOSE TO THE TURTLES. I WOULDN'T SAY THIS EPISODE WAS GREAT OR AWESOME OR BETTER THEN I-MONSTER OR THE BEST EPISODE EVER. THE ANIMATION WAS NOT UP TO PAR WITH "SAINW", "TOUCH AND GO", "I-MONSTER", "HUN ON THE RUN" OR "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK" ETC. DIDN'T WE EXPECT THE GUYS TO GET THEIR ASS KICKED? THE ONLY THING THE FOOT DID WAS OVERWHELM THEM, THATS ALL. OK SO KARAI DID A LITTLE MORE RECRUITING, SO WHAT? THEY STILL SUCK. AGAIN I SAY THAT THE ONLY TIME THE FOOT EVER SHOWED UP IN ALL 4 SEASONS WAS "THINGS CHANGE" AFTER THAT, THEY JUST ALWAYS GOT THEIR ASS KICKED.

ITS OFFICIAL THE "FOOT ELITE" ARE NO LONGER ELITE AND HAVEN'T BEEN SINCE "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK". WHAT? WERE THEY ON FIRE THAT DAY OR SOMETHING???????? THESE GUYS WERE AT THE ENTRANCE (ALL FOUR OF THEM!!!!) AND I DIDN'T ONCE SEE THEM ON SCREEN FIGHTING. WTF!!???!!!! THEY ARE JUST AS CORNEY AS THE REGULAR FOOT.

"KARAI AND THE FOOT SAPS"
"KARAI AND THE FOOT CRAPS"
"KARAI AND THE TOE CLAN" "LOOK OUT!!!!! ITS THE TOE CLAN!!!!!!!!!"
iLL, THE FOOT BLEW THEIR CHANCES.

I EXPECTED ALOT FROM THIS EPISODE. IS IT JUST ME? I MEANS ITS BEEN A WHILE THAT WE GET A STREET EPISODE. AND A LONG TIME SINCE THE FOOT. I EXPECTED A CLIMATIC EPISODE.

NOW ON TOP OF ALL THAT THE EPISODE WAS STILL GOOD. I LIKE THE IDEA THAT ALL THE TURTLES ARE SEPARATED. I HOPE THIS TURNS INTO AN ARCH WHERE THEY ALL FEND FOR THEMSELVES.

I wish they distorted her voice a little more, though.
ME TOO

I'M FINALLY WHERE ALOT OF YOU GUYS ARE. I'M SICK OF LEO. GIVE HIM A BREAK. ITS TRUE: "LEO AND THE TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES". CANT RAPH GET A PIECE OF SHREDDER? WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE LEO. KEEP IN MIND THAT I AM A LEO FAN OVER ALL THE OTHERS.

Aska_Badoura

02-04-2006, 01:07 PM

On a side note, how did April not know it was Karai? The "stranger" Spoke like Karai, acted like Karai, she IS Karai. Sorry if i offend, just alot of frustration.April's never met Karai.

April didn't look quite surprised enough when Karai told her the others were dead.Well, it's not something she'd take like "Oh no!! They're dead!!!" It'd be more like "No, that can't be. They staged it or something. The guys got away. They would have called if they were in trouble. They're fine." Denial. Or at least refusal to panic until one has more solid facts than a bashed-in wall hanging.

As for Karai herself, I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I feel sorry for her. Oroku Saki has messed up her head but good. She's been lied to her whole life, and she's in some serious denial. Either she's gonna realize the truth eventually, or she'll be smacked in the face with it. And maybe I'm in the minority again, but I see salvation for her in the end. Oh, I hope I hope!

Anyone notice the animation mistake with Karai's new Shredder suit? At the end where she laughs as the lair gets destroyed, the Shredder suit looks more feminine? Also, the suit looks more feminine in the episode preview for next week.From the very beginning when she appeared, it could be seen that whomever was in that suit is much more slender. The construction is different. I think that particular angle just made it more obvious.

Ah don't worry you're not alone, I too feel for Karai. ^^;;; *waves tiny Karai support flag and quickly hides it**gets a bigger flag and waves it frantically* I'm not shy about wanting Karai to get better! ;)

And then the turtles destroyed him, with good reason, but they destroyed him. Well, they tried to. Ultimately, it wasn't up to them. And she did help them, by preventing her father from killing them. And I'm sure at the moment she's furious at herself for doing that.

She needs guidance. She needs someone good in her life to make her see the error of her ways (and no I don't necessarily mean romance :p).*nodnods* If she's not beyond reach now.

Okay when Splinter said he "reached out to her". That confused me. When did he ever do this?I've been trying to tell you that for a while, Doppleganger. :p He supported her when she couldn't kill Leonardo and his family in "Rogue in the House". He reinforced her belief that her personal honor was important, too. And he believed in her, because Leo believed in her. He didn't have much contact with her, but when he did, he was supportive.

Plus, the suit is metalic, I doubt it'll transform just cause someone else is in it.I believe she's had that suit made for herself. It would be much more comfortable for her to wear that way (if she's planning on wearing it often, anyway :( ) Even if not, if a three-fingered Turtle can wear a five-fingered glove, anything can happen. ;)

April has never met Karai face-to-face before... I wonder if she realized just how much danger she was in.Hrm. Creepy thought. On the other hand, Karai apparently has no wish to spread violence where it doesn't need to be: she didn't do anything to April. Just delivered a message. She could have delivered a message and beat up the messanger, too, but she didn't.

And... the discrepancy with the Shredder suit was likely to fool us into thinking HE was back toward the beginning. Once that was cleared up, they probably pushed toward "feminine" gradually, to match the model sheet they're going to use for Karai as Lady Shredder?Could be... but it seems like it did occur to me right away that it was a bit thin in the waist.

Oh.. I forgot the Battle Nexus trophy! Aww, that was sad! :( I was more sad about Don losing his lab, though. I think I'm biased. :p

Actually, what I'm really disappointed with is how they've made Karai into a one-dimensional character. She had depth: she was complex, full of conflicting emotions and codes, definitely not a black/white character. But now, it's like her "good" half was cut off, leaving only the simple, easy to deal with because you can't relate to her, evil enemy.No, I think that other side's still there, just WAY repressed at the moment. I was surprised she even mentioned pleading with Leonardo to leave her father alone, and, later, that he was her friend. She's still hanging on to that, and wishing it could have been different.

Oh...and I conceide defeat: there is now absolutely no chance that she and Leo will have anything between them. I will never admit defeat.. oh, wait, that sounds a little psychotic in itself. ;)

I completely agree, NinjaSwordsman. I usually just say an apology on behalf of the person and pray for them.

Leo went from Leo to an almost one-dimentional shadow of his former self and then it would seem almost back again with the help of his family and the Ancient One, maybe the same road awaits karai. Or perhaps as a contrast, she will stay the course on this distructive road, and it will be her end.I'm still thinking it will lean more toward Mirage Vol 4... an uneasy alliance. Eventually. After a lot of grief. I hope.

Bevandera

02-04-2006, 02:14 PM

Great episode, but the storyboarders really mailed it in.

At one point Karai was holding Splinter and fighting Raph and Donny. That leaves...200 foot ninja, 2 foot mechs, and 4 Foot Elite to fight...Mikey. Yeah. Sorry, but he's not THAT good at dodging.

In a fight where the entire lair is filled with Foot ninja, there should not have been a moment where Raph could be dazed on the ground without one of them running up and skewering him like a fish, let alone a few minutes.

The Foot Elite did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except show off their flashy new shoulder armor. Speaking of which, the Foot have different costumes this time. They've foregone the yellow eyed look in favor of a more Tech-looking goggled look. Also, they wear red sashes now. But yeah, the Foot Elite are supposed to be near Turtle fighting level. Four of them should easily be able to pound Mikey even without giant fighting robots and scores of minions.

And then there were the general script problems:
A foot mech grabs Raph in its huge metal claw and...throws him away. Why not just squeeze?
Donny and Splinter's "death" I can completely understand the guy calling in and saying they died. Raph and Mikey though..."Mistress Karai, their armored vehicle flipped over. Clearly there is no way the creature with an armored shell could survive a vehicle flipping over." "Mistress Karai, I knocked over the drill thingie. Do I get my 'killed a turtle' gold star now?"

All in all, I felt a much greater sense of unbeatable odds and danger in Shredder Strikes Back, despite there being a heck of a lot more foot and less turtles this time. Not as good as Shredder Strikes Back, not as good as Bad Day, but still a fun episode. Hopefully next week's will be the real prize.

Yeah, one more thing. April is friggin DUMB.

Karai: "I am looking for Leonardo."
April: "Leo? I...don't know anyone by that name."

Are you kidding me? She just used a nickname for him!

Person A "Hey do you do know Christina?"
Person B "Oh yeah, Christy! No, never heard of her."

jeff the cheff

02-04-2006, 02:24 PM

Yeah, one more thing. April is friggin DUMB.

Karai: "I am looking for Leonardo."
April: "Leo? I...don't know anyone by that name."

Are you kidding me? She just used a nickname for him!

Person A "Hey do you do know Christina?"
Person B "Oh yeah, Christy! No, never heard of her."

Haha, I was thinking the same thing.

Also, How is saying the word God make it in vain?

R-iZZy

02-04-2006, 02:25 PM

This is one of the moments where I wished the dark and edgy Leo was still here! Now that The Ancient One has probably brought his head back to normal level, he won't be as fierce a fighter against Karai as he would've been in his dark stage. Seriously, the old Leo will hurt Karai but spare her, as the dark and edgy one will stay focused, obliterate like Wolverine, and care less about it.

I just want him to save that edginess only for Karai, after this episode. I know they fight with honor... but seriously, c'mon, she frickin' took out their home and a piece of their lives. She crushed the orb of Hamato Yoshi, Raph's punching bag is now a ripped bag bleeding sand, Mikey's comics are probably ashes, by now. Let's not forget, they also crushed Donny's inventions (they should burn for that).

It sucks that he'll have to fight for honor and not revenge!

Kiss_My_Shell

02-04-2006, 02:33 PM

Great episode, but the storyboarders really mailed it in.

At one point Karai was holding Splinter and fighting Raph and Donny. That leaves...200 foot ninja, 2 foot mechs, and 4 Foot Elite to fight...Mikey. Yeah. Sorry, but he's not THAT good at dodging.

In a fight where the entire lair is filled with Foot ninja, there should not have been a moment where Raph could be dazed on the ground without one of them running up and skewering him like a fish, let alone a few minutes.

The Foot Elite did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except show off their flashy new shoulder armor. Speaking of which, the Foot have different costumes this time. They've foregone the yellow eyed look in favor of a more Tech-looking goggled look. Also, they wear red sashes now. But yeah, the Foot Elite are supposed to be near Turtle fighting level. Four of them should easily be able to pound Mikey even without giant fighting robots and scores of minions.

And then there were the general script problems:
A foot mech grabs Raph in its huge metal claw and...throws him away. Why not just squeeze?
Donny and Splinter's "death" I can completely understand the guy calling in and saying they died. Raph and Mikey though..."Mistress Karai, their armored vehicle flipped over. Clearly there is no way the creature with an armored shell could survive a vehicle flipping over." "Mistress Karai, I knocked over the drill thingie. Do I get my 'killed a turtle' gold star now?"

All in all, I felt a much greater sense of unbeatable odds and danger in Shredder Strikes Back, despite there being a heck of a lot more foot and less turtles this time. Not as good as Shredder Strikes Back, not as good as Bad Day, but still a fun episode. Hopefully next week's will be the real prize.

Yeah, one more thing. April is friggin DUMB.

Karai: "I am looking for Leonardo."
April: "Leo? I...don't know anyone by that name."
Are you kidding me? She just used a nickname for him!

Person A "Hey do you do know Christina?"
Person B "Oh yeah, Christy! No, never heard of her."

:lol: I must be dumb as April, I didn't realize that till you said it.

LUCKFF

02-04-2006, 02:47 PM

The Foot Elite did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except show off their flashy new shoulder armor.

And then there were the general script problems:
A foot mech grabs Raph in its huge metal claw and...throws him away. Why not just squeeze?
Donny and Splinter's "death" I can completely understand the guy calling in and saying they died. Raph and Mikey though..."Mistress Karai, their armored vehicle flipped over. Clearly there is no way the creature with an armored shell could survive a vehicle flipping over." "Mistress Karai, I knocked over the drill thingie. Do I get my 'killed a turtle' gold star now?"

All in all, I felt a much greater sense of unbeatable odds and danger in Shredder Strikes Back, despite there being a heck of a lot more foot and less turtles this time. Not as good as Shredder Strikes Back, not as good as Bad Day, but still a fun episode. Hopefully next week's will be the real prize.

EXACTLY MAN, EXACTLY. THERE HAVE BEEN WAY MORE PERFECT EPISODES THEN THIS. WAY MORE!!!!!!!!!

I FIND THAT THE BEST EPISODES ARE THE ONES I DONT EXPECT. SINCE THE NEXT EPISODE IS SUPPOSE TO BE BIG SH*T, IT PROBABLY WONT BE. AND JUST BY THE TEASER WE SAW, THE ANIMATION ALREADY LOOKED BAD (COMPARED TO THE GOOD SH*T).

EDIT: JUST LOOKED THROUGH THE TEASER AGAIN. ITS NOT BAD ANIMATION...ITS HORRIBLE. ANYONE GOT A LOOK AT WHEN KARAI THREW THE CHAIN? NOTICE THE ANIMATION OF HER FOLLOW UP TO THE THROW. iLL!!

iris

02-04-2006, 02:50 PM

Could someone please do me a really big favor and write me an itty bitty recap, please?

I missed it. (My medication kept me awake all night, and... :p)

Even if nobody has time to take pity on me, I like reading your reactions. :) Looks like it was one mondo blowout eppy.

ETA: At least please explain "Ask Leo." That tidbit is drivin' me nuts. :goof:

Aska_Badoura

02-04-2006, 02:52 PM

Yeah, one more thing. April is friggin DUMB.LOL... well, she slipped. Happens to the best of us. :goofygri:

Also, How is saying the word God make it in vain?Because it's somebody's name. And it's like knowing someone named Bill, and then saying "Hey Bill!" Then when Bill says "what?", you say "I wasn't talking to you." Or talking about Bill right in front of him as if he wasn't there. How does Bill feel about that? I think he'd feel insulted if you kept doing it.
LOL, okay, it's a silly analogy, but the same concept. It's rude to only pretend your talking to someone when they can hear you, and that's essentially what you're doing when you use the name and you're not talking to Him or about Him, but just expressing an emotion. And it does get tiresome sometimes.

Aska_Badoura

02-04-2006, 03:56 PM

Eww.. double post. Sorry about that. It's been an hour, though.

Now that The Ancient One has probably brought his head back to normal level, he won't be as fierce a fighter against Karai as he would've been in his dark stage.GOOD! :p

Seriously, the old Leo will hurt Karai but spare her, as the dark and edgy one will stay focused, obliterate like Wolverine, and care less about it.And then reeeeally regret it later, probably. He needs to have his head clear when he deals with her, because she needs someone who's not insane to tell her that she is. Come on, they were friends! I for one don't want to see them destroy each other just because of the Shredder. He's not even around anymore! Karai needs to channel her grief elsewhere. Yes, I realize it's because I like Karai, while several other people would rather just see her wiped off the map completely. But really, the production team has been trying to make us care about her since she first allied with the Turtles, and it's worked for some viewers, but not all. And that's fine. But I can't see them building her up to where some of us like her, and sympathize with her, only to destroy her later. Cruel, cruel writers, if so. :(

Could someone please do me a really big favor and write me an itty bitty recap, please?Um... hoo boy. The guys are at home, minding their own business, talking about Leo, actually. He's been gone two months (which really disappoints me... we didn't get to watch Leo's progress. It's been a gradual change for him, and quite an abrupt one for us). One of the perimeter alarms goes off, then lowers in pitch and dies completely, like someone cut the power to it. Then the ground starts shaking, and something huge starts pounding on the door, and then rips it off by the hinges (and that's a big door!). Alllll these Foot people start coming in (and two big mechs, not unlike what Don used in "Same as it Never Was", only bigger. One of them was used to tear off the door), and they fight the Turtles, who wonder how they found them. We cut briefly to Leonardo with the Ancient One, who tells him he has to go home. Leo's disappointed, because he wants to learn more. The Ancient One then explains that his family is in danger, and Leo's immediately on the alert (but in his usual way, resolutely, calmly, focused, not the *growl snarl lemme at 'em* way he's adopted as of late).
Then we cut back... (actually, I may be getting these scenes out of order, but they're happening simultaneously, so does it really matter?) the Shredder appears in the doorway of the lair, the guys are going "Oh no, it's him", and I'm going "Oh no, it's her"... :p The Shredder speaks, and it's definitely Karai in there. She takes the helmet off. She asks where Leo is. They tell her He's Not Home. She says "Kill them all anyway!" Lots of fighting, just about every standing structure in the lair gets smashed; the columns, Mike's trophy, Don's lab, all the tv's on the monitor wall, the center bridge, the screen on Splinter's door... and then he goes into his room, to survey the damage, and sees the orb the Utroms gave him, that allows him to see Yoshi. He starts toward it, but a metal clad foot comes down on it and smashes it! Karai attacks Splinter, he says he tried to reach out to her, but now she's unreachable, and will likely be destroyed by her own evil, as the Shredder was. She tells him to shut up, they fight more, she injures him twice, he stumbles out, she grabs him by the scruff of the neck and is about to kill him. Raph kicks her over, knocking the helmet off again. Um... more fighting, Don grabs Splinter, Raph tells them to split up, they'll meet again on the surface.
Don and Splinter take the sub (which Don just happened to be working on, so it's conveniently in the pond right now, how thoughtful), Mike grabs Klunk and takes the tunneller (drilling through the garage wall. It's definitely looking like they've wisely given up on coming back to an intact home), Raph takes the elevator to the garage. He's met with a bunch of Foot at the garage door, but he fires a missile at them and takes off. Don and Splinter take the flooded tunnels to the river, only to meet up with a bunch of Foot subs. Mike gets chased by the huge mechs.
Back in the lair, Karai has the remaining mechs completely pummel the place with bullets and missiles, turning it into a complete ruins. She laughs evilly while they do so. (ACK!)
Don is outmanuveured, outnumbered, and the sub's damaged... we see a shot from the outside, it takes a bunch of missiles, explodes, then sinks down to the bottom of the river. The guy in charge reports to Karai that Donatello and Splinter are destroyed. Karai is pleased.
Raph gets chased by a helicopter, and gets missiled... the car flips over, explodes, and that Foot guy reports to Karai, who is even more pleased.
The mechs catch up with the tunneler, and fire on it, causing it to explode. They report to Karai, who is now very much pleased. Now she just has to find Leonardo...
We cut to April's antique shop. A woman in a trenchcoat and hat shows up, and tells April she's looking for Leonardo. April denies she knows anyone with that name. Karai tells her not to play games, and to inform Leo that his family is dead, and he is the last of his kind. She hands April a dented, mutilated plate of metal. She turns it over, only to read "SEWER SWEET SEWER". She looks up, shocked, but the woman has left. We close with Karai's evil laughter echoing down the street.

iris

02-04-2006, 04:16 PM

Whoa...

Thanks for the details, Aska. :tanime:

Man, Karai has lost it! But she was well-prepared for this surprise attack. Perhaps that could explain some of you noting that the Elite "didn't do anything"? Maybe they weren't supposed to; maybe Karai wanted to be hands on in her vindictiveness, but she brought the artillery just to be prepared. Hey, it's possible. ;) lol

"Sewer Sweet Sewer"... *sigh* Depressing.

ZariusTwo

02-04-2006, 04:16 PM

You know, more and more its' becoming clearer this Karai is the TMNT version of Daredevils' Electra.

She should have stabbed April with a sai, and April should've been smoking:lol:

Zelda

02-04-2006, 04:21 PM

I liked the Karai/April meeting thing but it was totally unneccessary. I mean, if Leo gets back and finds the lair destroyed he's GOING to figure it out. If she had left some kind of calling card with April, indicating it was Karai that did it...rather than just another piece of the lair it would've made more sense.

I agree that this looks like just another setup to spotlight Leo. BUT, it makes sense and I don't see a logical way to have avoided it. Of course Karai was going to come back and if Leo is in Japan for that long, she's likely going to come back while he's gone...and so on... I just hope it doesn't smack him back into moodiness. It looks like it has that potential but I'm tired of that.

I definitely noticed the Shredder suit looking WAYYY more feminine in the previews for the next episode...but it makes sense. She couldn't fit in the original Shredder suit without some major mods because it's designed for an utrom, not a human...the space inside it is space enough for an utrom. So..it really should've been feminine the entire time.

I'm with the Karai supporters, I think she should at least bat an eye when Splinter talks about the awful things Shredder's done. She used to waver a bit and I'd like to see that some more, it fills out her character.

I loved the little bits of Klunk <3 just enough, not too much.

I liked that Don and Mikey did a bit of dominance in the fight, rather than being saved they were the savers.

I'm frustrated that we haven't seen more of Bishop. There was a hint of him at the beginning of this season and I was thinking, "YES! They're really going to get into the stuff with him!" but he just seems to be on the sidelines. He seems so cool and evil...although the whole, revealing his plot and laughing undermined that a ton >_<

The trophy and orb crushing was an awesome touch. Subtle, but really strong because we all know what those mean.

I was disapointed in the 'new' foot ninja, especially near the end. They're supposed to be all new and improved and just seemed....the same.

I was a bit disoriented in this episode. It was WAY dramatic but seemed to have little buildup. Maybe it's just because it's been so long since we've seen new episodes or maybe it was supposed to be shock value.

Raph's Girl

02-04-2006, 04:37 PM

If this ep taught us anything it's that Carmen Sandiego is in NYC going under the name Karai. Seriously! Where did Karai get that Carmen Sandiego outfit she wore at the end of the ep?! :lol:

IMO the saddest part of this ep was when Karai stomped on Master Yoshi's orb! Now Splinter won't be able to talk to Master Yoshi anymore! :(

Ok..Things about Karai in this ep:

1: Her evil laugh needs some work done

2: She either watches The Simpsons or Mr. Burns is teaching her... "Excellent.."

3: Karai = Carmen Sandiego. With that outfit it won't be long before Zack shows up and takes her away!:lol:

VaughnMichael

02-04-2006, 05:53 PM

PLease don't be offended, but I said this before: PLease do not take our Lord God's name in vain. It sure does offend Him and breaks a Commandment which we are all to follow. It really upsets me and should others to constantly see and hear people doing this. God has nothing to do with this topic. We are talking about the Ninja Turtles, not our Holy God. PLease consider saying Gosh or Goodness next time. Just where is the Respect today for our Creator who Loves us so much?! You wonder how much more more of He's gonna stand before He intervenes. Another Tsunami anyone? Pray to God, but just don't go around saying His holy name, unless its for the Right reason.
please drop it it's a figure of speach not your or anyone else in this entire universe are ever going to stop people from using it....they are stating something by saying omg like they are in shock like saying oh dear lord! like crying out to god because they are in shock and that if the first person they think to cry out to....I always get so ticked as a christian that people get angry by this...it's not in any way shape or form rude to god jesus or anyone else so holy....and in all honesty I think it makes anyone who complains about it look like an idiot or a nit picky baby...and posts really off topic things ;)
-Putrescent
so as not to double post ;)

2: She either watches The Simpsons or Mr. Burns is teaching her... "Excellent.."
hahaha so funny I thought the same thing!

VaughnMichael

02-04-2006, 06:09 PM

Well, I'm very glad I was reading everyone's posts before I made mine I wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one who disliked this episode..cause you know how it goes...if you are the only one...everyone gets ticked at you and you get hate mail.
Anyway.
This episode..it just didn't do anything for me it was a bad episode to come back on it would have made more of an impact on me I guess if they would have played it before the short break they took......
Few things I some others mention like Splinter saying to Karai that he reached out to her....that never happened...or not that they ever showed us.....or at least I cant remember it happening...
I mean don't get me wrong it wasn't a bad episode but it was...dare I say sort of boring....I mean we've seen it all before is all and nothing really suprised me or shocked me besides April meeting Karai for the first time which was my favorite part of the episode beside the new look of the foot which I think I am the only one who likes it lol but that could just be the action figure collector in me seeing new toys out of these new looks lol.....man I loved that foot tech vehicle! BTW to anyone wondering that's who was driving them....the foot tech the scientist foot we haven't seen in a while I'm honestly shocked we didn't see Hun or the purple dragons in on this whole thing!
Also I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the Shredder outfit change in the show....first it was the normal shredder then it turned more into Karais shape towards the end of it all....
One thing that bothers me is that Karai is doing this all she's seen everything Shredders done and even gone against him and joined with the tmnt to stop him from doing these bad things so why in the hell would she be doing this....and I'm sorry but if I was Karai I would be going after the Utroms not the turtles since the turtles didn't really kill him the Utroms did....
OK and Master Yoshis orb? where the hell did this thing come from I've never seen it in a single episode and yet splinter acts like its his most prized possession in the whole world...I guess I'm just supposed to assume that it is since the way the character acted *shruggs*
Also is it just me or is it not very good writing that Karai just assumed that they where dead and took the foots word for it.....I mean really that's not like her she would have went to each place to make sure the tmnt were dead...
And well now it looks like a few things have changed from same as it never was.....
Leonard is now to be the Prodigal son or whatever when it was Don....
The Tunneler now seems to be destroyed I guess anyway?
I also have a feeling Dr. Chaplin is working for Karai behind the scenes there is no way she would let such scum as Baxter Stockman in her clan because she knows what he did to her "father" anyway he's working for Bishop now....and I'm still waiting for that crazy episode to happen with him all zombie like!
Oh I will also say poor mikey his statue is broken but I'm sure he can get another one if the survive all of this....
And to finish off this long post I'd like to say I hate the way they just left us with nothing....like OK they could have at least shown them...cause as we all know there going to be fine....I wonder if Mike will still lose his arm.
I will say though as much as Leonardo is my least fave turtle I'm going really like next weeks episode I think we really could have done without today's...besides the destruction of everything....nothing really happened that was really that interesting...
I'd rather of had an episode where they go and try and find what happend to Leatherhead.
-Putrescent

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-04-2006, 06:41 PM

ZariusTwo

02-04-2006, 07:00 PM

What The Hell Was Wrong With This Episode?

Easy. Hype.

I liked the episode too, but some people have an adverse reaction to hype and tend to act the exact opposite, when every point you raised justifies exactly how great the episode was and how faifthful it is to its' own mythology.

GK Punk

02-04-2006, 07:23 PM

I really enjoyed the episode.

Karai is so bad ass as Shredder, and this ep got me interested in the new series again.

Fledermaus

02-04-2006, 07:24 PM

I'm sad to see a lot of closed minds as well as overlooked facts about the show. Apparently, some of you have forgotten how much the orb meant to Splinter -- it is the only way he can communicate with the spirit of Hamato Yoshi -- it represents his one link to his father. The Utroms gave this to Splinter as a gift. And Yoshi was an guardian, remember? That's why Shredder tortured and killed him, remember? April and Karai haven't formally met in this world -- there are loose ends, but not everything needs to be

The script and animation were solid enough -- not breathtaking, but that didn't detract from the pacing. I saw no inconsistencies after watching it 3 times through, EXCEPT for Karai's hair suddenly getting longer after she took that hit from Don (which I thought was wonderful -- anyone did that to my Dad, I would kick their arse -- assuming I was a WuShu master.)

I think that many have just been away from the show for too long. Next time, watch the last few episodes before the show. If a sequel to a movie is coming out, then watch part one. Then, as anyone should do before reading a novel or viewing a piece of art or watching a new episode, clear your mind of all prejudices and expectations and see with fresh eyes. I'm serious. You will enjoy the episode a lot more that way.:)

In my obsevation, this was more than just a decent episode. While I am very sad they didn't have a few episodes -- even some fillers would suffice (the three turtles could have, for example, gone off looking to find out what happened to Leatherhead, or had some completely random adventures) -- without Leo, I'm glad to see the changes in behavior in the other three. As others have pointed out, Raph assumed more of a leadership role -- I enjoyed his sidestory a lot after they all split up. It was very thriller-esque. He came out of the elevator terribly beat. I wonder, since he was fighting for his life in there whether he had to kill anyone... ANYWAYS, it was good. The interactions between Don and Splinter, I love how this story was not completely dialogue-driven, which is the usual copout. The dialogue, when it did come, did not feel awkward. I point out the Splinter vs. Karai fight, which could have easily turned syrupy, but the pacing was right. It wasn't surprising or shocking -- I don't think it was meant to be. Hard to put my finger on just what this was... It was like the coming to life of a fear that has been haunting their minds since bad day. I felt that terror at least. We knew this would happen. And here it happened: It was no surprise, because it's the sort of thing you see in your nightmares.

I just really wish I could have seen more of life at home without Leo. As the writers have chosen NOT to show what happened while Leo was away, I infer that whatever happened was not important enough to show. I'm not ready to conclude that nothing has been happening to the others. Not yet. I liked most of all the unspoken tension and... the understanding between the characters. Opening scene, Don speaks of Leo. I haven't seen that before. I want to conclude that show is growing up, but I'll wait. I trust the writers. They have rarely disappointed me.:)

VaughnMichael

02-04-2006, 07:43 PM

What The Hell Was Wrong With This Episode?

I mean it delivered what it promised, and it was the perfect set-up for the next episode. The animation was really fluid, and this was one of the only times the action literatly left me on the edge of my seat. The only real issue was Karai's voice at times, it lacked emotion, like when she confronted Splinter.

And to Purescent:

1. I take it you never saw Secret Orgins part 3. That orb was gift to Splinter from the Utroms, that contained diffrent memories of Hamato Yoshi.

2. Why would Hun and the Dragons show up? This is Karai's episode, not Hun's. He's already had 2.

3. How can Karai exact revenge on the Utroms? I doubt she has the technology, or the knowledge of where the Utrom homeworld is. It's only fitting she'd go after the Turtles since theyr'e closest to home. But more importantly, it was the TMNT who sent the distress call to the Utroms, and it was the TMNT that crashed Shredder's little "going away party" and ruined the plans. And it was the TMNT who were about to blow up the ship killing them all. Karai just wanted to help the Shredder get revenge on the Uroms, since she believed they're the evil ones. When she teamed up with TMNT that one time, she was just trying keep people from getting killed. She didn't want to overthrow Saki or kill him. He was still he father.
I don't know I just didn't like it it was worked on better it seems in the episode bad day....this to me just lacked something..not really sure what it was...and yes I have seen all the episodes besides the first epiode with nobody....I guess it just slipped my mind since it hasn't been shown since then....for something so special to splinter should have been shown more then one time to really get the point across of how special it is to him....
I guess maybe what I don't like about this episode like I stated before is it's ultra repetative because we've seen this same battle a billion times now....
and I for one don't care to see it anymore....now listen carefully I said the battle not the entire show so what I don't have to like every episode or is there something in the tmnt fan book that says I have to? lol
I will agree about the way things had been done perhaps thats why I don't like it....karai is um wacked out of her mind now....and um april seemed strange to.....and I still hate the way they draw klunk shesh....
Hun & the dragons or atleast Hun would show up because when we last saw them Karai and Hun where talking about all this stuff...so I thought maybe they would join forces to kill the turtles...maybe thats what I wanted...
Also where are Bishop, & baxter during all of this and leatherhead etc. what does time stop for other characters when it's not part of there story arc lol.
-Putrescent

VaughnMichael

02-04-2006, 07:46 PM

Easy. Hype.

I liked the episode too, but some people have an adverse reaction to hype and tend to act the exact opposite, when every point you raised justifies exactly how great the episode was and how faifthful it is to its' own mythology.
it's not a bad episode Zarius but I wont say it was a good one either because man some people are saying it was better then I-Monster or Same as it never was or something like that...it hardly even comes close....
sure it was faithefull to everything except april and Karai....thats just wierd.. how they acted...I dont like the way they are leading her character...
but hey whatever to each there own :D
-Putrescent
I really enjoyed the episode.

Karai is so bad ass as Shredder, and this ep got me interested in the new series again.
well thats good :) I think perhaps thats whats agrivating me about the series....Karai is her own character and she is amazing as that I wish they would stop with trying to make her the shredder allready for just the sake of having old tingrin in the show.
-Putrescent

Aska_Badoura

02-04-2006, 07:49 PM

If she had left some kind of calling card with April, indicating it was Karai that did it...rather than just another piece of the lair it would've made more sense.But April can at least describe her voice to Leo. They don't know that many humans, and a former female friend with a Japanese accent is a pretty good identifier.

Ok..Things about Karai in this ep:

1: Her evil laugh needs some work doneIt takes a proper heart of ice to have a truly psychotic laugh. Hers is still malfunctioning, so the laugh isn't working quite right. ;)

Few things I some others mention like Splinter saying to Karai that he reached out to her....that never happened...or not that they ever showed us.....or at least I cant remember it happening..."Rogue in the House". He encouraged her. And it's inferred that he supported Leo's attempts to change her. When Leo is dismayed that the Foot are active, loading the ocean liner, when Karai is supposed to be in charge, Splinter sympathizes with him, rather than say "Hah! See, she's evil! I told you so!"

One thing that bothers me is that Karai is doing this all she's seen everything Shredders done and even gone against him and joined with the tmnt to stop him from doing these bad things so why in the hell would she be doing this...It bothers me to death, too. In fact, this whole mood swing with Leo and Karai this season has... but I've probably said that enough lately. ;)

OK and Master Yoshis orb? where the hell did this thing come from I've never seen it in a single episode and yet splinter acts like its his most prized possession in the whole world...I guess I'm just supposed to assume that it is since the way the character acted *shruggs**blinks* The Utroms gave it to him in "Secret Origins". It allowed him to interact with his master Yoshi. He finally had the chance to thank him for (if inadvertantly) teaching him. He used it in "The Christmas Aliens", to give Yoshi a gift. He may have meditated with it in "Exodus"? (Not sure I'm remembering that one correctly) It was the only thing he had to communicate with Yoshi (or perhaps a virtual-Yoshi, but the effect is just as much a comfort for Splinter), and the only physical object he had to remind him of his master, other than his katana, and his photograph of him. Now he may have lost all three.

Also is it just me or is it not very good writing that Karai just assumed that they where dead and took the foots word for it.....I mean really that's not like her she would have went to each place to make sure the tmnt were dead...No, that is not very good writing, I agree. On the other hand, we didn't see the guys escape, so, if common sense did not tell us that this is not the sort of show that would kill off its heroes, we might actually believe it ourselves. Smaller children certainly might.

Please... as much as I want to argue with you, Putrescent, we do not want to get into an debate on what is or is not taking the Lord's name in vain on a Ninja Turtles discussion forum. I usually just wince and move on when I see it around here, to avoid exactly that. Feel free to PM those of us who feel strongly about it and we can argue till next weekend. :p

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-04-2006, 08:01 PM

Easy. Hype.

I liked the episode too, but some people have an adverse reaction to hype and tend to act the exact opposite, when every point you raised justifies exactly how great the episode was and how faifthful it is to its' own mythology.

I guess your right.

Hun & the dragons or atleast Hun would show up because when we last saw them Karai and Hun where talking about all this stuff...so I thought maybe they would join forces to kill the turtles...maybe thats what I wanted...
Also where are Bishop, & baxter during all of this and leatherhead etc. what does time stop for other characters when it's not part of there story arc lol.

I still don't think Hun and Karai are on good terms. I doubt they'd do a team up anytime soon.

And you don't have to like every episode. I hated Return of Nano, the Garbageman episodes, and I wasn't too fond of Reflections.

VaughnMichael

02-04-2006, 08:02 PM

"Rogue in the House". He encouraged her. And it's inferred that he supported Leo's attempts to change her. When Leo is dismayed that the Foot are active, loading the ocean liner, when Karai is supposed to be in charge, Splinter sympathizes with him, rather than say "Hah! See, she's evil! I told you so!"
hmmm that stuff splinter said in rogue in the house really didnt strike me as him trying to bring Karai over to the side of good...Leo's tried to do that more then he did....perhaps Splinter should have tried harder...

It bothers me to death, too. In fact, this whole mood swing with Leo and Karai this season has... but I've probably said that enough lately. ;)
me to but it still doesn't hurt to talk about it I want them to be friends allready perhaps I'm just spoiled because I have all the comic books and feel as if I know whats going to happen allready....

*blinks* The Utroms gave it to him in "Secret Origins". It allowed him to interact with his master Yoshi. He finally had the chance to thank him for (if inadvertantly) teaching him. He used it in "The Christmas Aliens", to give Yoshi a gift. He may have meditated with it in "Exodus"? (Not sure I'm remembering that one correctly) It was the only thing he had to communicate with Yoshi (or perhaps a virtual-Yoshi, but the effect is just as much a comfort for Splinter), and the only physical object he had to remind him of his master, other than his katana, and his photograph of him. Now he may have lost all three.
it's just odd I have no idea why that slipped my mind...and I usually remember everything tmnt related even stuff from the next mutation lol....maybe I just dont feel that material things are that important anymore...
I would like to see the turtles realize this to because I know atleast Don & Mike will be complaining about there lost things....but then they come to realize they have each other and there Friends and thats all they will ever need...

No, that is not very good writing, I agree. On the other hand, we didn't see the guys escape, so, if common sense did not tell us that this is not the sort of show that would kill off its heroes, we might actually believe it ourselves. Smaller children certainly might.
yea maybe I should get a kid to see there reaction lol ;)

Please... as much as I want to argue with you, Putrescent, we do not want to get into an debate on what is or is not taking the Lord's name in vain on a Ninja Turtles discussion forum. I usually just wince and move on when I see it around here, to avoid exactly that. Feel free to PM those of us who feel strongly about it and we can argue till next weekend. :p
Oh I am in no way trying to start a fight about anything like that I infact think religion should be left off the bords in the first place....it's something that should not be discussed with people or shoved in peoples faces...I mean if that guy has a problem with the way some one speak he should have pm'd them about it if I see something scarey I'm gonna say oh sweet jesus or something first...you know...*shruggs* I just never saw it as that bad when I know plenty of older people that do...its ok though I have no problem with you at all aska :)
-Putrescent

Buslady

02-04-2006, 09:24 PM

I dunno what to make of the ep. I dont' like Karai, never did, never will..as in she's a good baddie, ..Ok so it looks like she offed the guys...well of course, that ain't true or season 5 wouldn't be in the works ... or 6 for that matter.
So the eps was ok...cute opening though. Mike and his cards ^.^

Next one should prove interesting though....I hope Leo kick her @$$ for good.

Aska_Badoura

02-04-2006, 09:29 PM

perhaps Splinter should have tried harder...I dunno... maybe if he'd had more contact with her, he would have. But really, he hasn't been with his sons very often when they've run across her. He ignored her completely in "Exodus", but he was concentrating pretty hard on getting rid of Saki at the time. If he'd been with the Turtles in "Mission of Gravity" or "Hun on the Run", he might have had more things to say to her.

Speaking of Splinter and Karai, I was surprised she called him "Splinter-san". It seemed awfully respectful of her, considering she was about to kill them all. I don't think it was mocking, either. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like she's almost got a split personality going on, with the "Defend Master's so-called-honor at all costs" persona locking the sensible one in the closet while it goes out on a rampage, but it can still hear the other whispering through the door. Did that make sense, LOL?

yea maybe I should get a kid to see there reaction lol ;)
Don't freak out your children, it will scar them psychologically! They'll dream of armor-clad psychos out to get them! ;)

*nods at Putrescent* I agree. And I like non-confrontation. I'll just sigh privately, as I always do. :goofygri:

LUCKFF

02-04-2006, 10:45 PM

What The Hell Was Wrong With This Episode?

I mean it delivered what it promised, and it was the perfect set-up for the next episode. The animation was really fluid, and this was one of the only times the action literatly left me on the edge of my seat.

THERE WERE THINGS WRONG WITH THE EP. LIKE MENTIONED BEFORE, THE FOOT SUCKED. I DONT THINK THAT CAN BE DENIED. AND WHAT ABOUT THE FOOT ELITE? THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT. AS AN ACTION BASED EPISODE IT SUCKED. IT DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK", "SAINW", "HUN ON THE RUN", "TOUCH AND GO"ETC. AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALL THOSE CLASSIC ACTION EPISODES HAVE IN COMMON?...THE TURTLES GOT THEIR ASS KICKED. WHAT GOOD IS AN ACTION EPISODE WHEN THE TURTLES DONT GET TOUCHED? BOTTOM LINE THIS EPISODE HAD BAD ACTION. THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS LOOKING FOR VULNERABILITY FROM THE GUYS, AND NOTHING HAPPENED. THATS WHERE MY DISAPPOINTMENT CAME FROM,.. MY EXPECTATIONS. AND IS IT SO ILLOGICAL TO EXPECT THE TURTLES TO GET F***ED UP? WHO HERE, BY A SHOW OF HANDS EXPECTED THE TURTLES TO COME OUT UNSCATHED? ITS DISAPPOINTING ALSO BECAUSE I DONT EXPECT THIS FROM THIS SERIES. THEY SET THE STANDARD EARLY AND NOW ARE PRODUCING BELOW IT. WHATS UP WITH THAT?

I DO AGREE THAT THE SET UP WAS PERFECT AND THE STORY WAS TIGHT, ITS JUST THE WAY THEY SHOWED IT TO US. I'D RATHER GO BACK TO BEFORE T.V. AND HEAR THE EPISODE OVER THE RADIO SO I CAN CONSTRUCT IT MY SELF WITHIN MY IMAGINATION.

I KNOW THAT IF THIS EPISODE WOULD HAVE TURNED OUT MORE LIKE "BAD DAY", "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK", OR "SAINW" THIS THREAD WOULD BE ROARING. TO ME IT JUST SOUNDS LIKE FAN PROTECTION (THAT I MUST SAY, I SUCCUMB TO AS WELL, BUT TRY HARD NOT TOO. ITS NATURAL).

I think that many have just been away from the show for too long. Next time, watch the last few episodes before the show. If a sequel to a movie is coming out, then watch part one. Then, as anyone should do before reading a novel or viewing a piece of art or watching a new episode, clear your mind of all prejudices and expectations and see with fresh eyes. I'm serious. You will enjoy the episode a lot more that way.:)

THE EPISODE WAS GOOD, AND I DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT THE SH*T WAS GREAT JUST BECAUSE ITS BEEN A WHILE. I KEEP EVERY SINGLE EPISODE FRESH IN MY HEAD. SO WHEN SUB-PAR EPISODES AIR I HAVE FRESH RECOLLECTION OF WHAT ARE THE REAL DEAL EPISODES.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/LUCKFF/TMNTDVD3.gif

Fledermaus

02-04-2006, 11:09 PM

THE EPISODE WAS GOOD, AND I DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT THE SH*T WAS GREAT JUST BECAUSE ITS BEEN A WHILE. I KEEP EVERY SINGLE EPISODE FRESH IN MY HEAD. SO WHEN SUB-PAR EPISODES AIR I HAVE FRESH RECOLLECTION OF WHAT ARE THE REAL DEAL EPISODES.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/LUCKFF/TMNTDVD3.gif

I didn't say it was great. I said it was good. And that is the way I feel about it. A great ep, IMO was I, Monster. Besides, you totally misinterpreted what I said, but I'm feeling extremely nonchalant this evening. The foot were beaten. So the turtles have been training. So it is plot device. While it does not bother me it irritates you. I'm sorry that the episode was ruined for you.

I've yet to hear sound reasons why this was a "bad" episode. Compare it to other episodes this season, the quality remains high. I watched them back to back just to compare. I'd say they'd even improved in a few areas, but I don't care to discuss them just yet.

Alas, my nonchalance this evening does not put me into my nefarious, combative, cinema-review mode. I may be back, I may not. No matter. I enjoyed this episode all the same and will probably watch it several more times before the week is over.:)

In the meantime, I go to saner places for discussion.:P

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-04-2006, 11:36 PM

THERE WERE THINGS WRONG WITH THE EP. LIKE MENTIONED BEFORE, THE FOOT SUCKED. I DONT THINK THAT CAN BE DENIED. AND WHAT ABOUT THE FOOT ELITE? THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT. AS AN ACTION BASED EPISODE IT SUCKED. IT DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK", "SAINW", "HUN ON THE RUN", "TOUCH AND GO"ETC. AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALL THOSE CLASSIC ACTION EPISODES HAVE IN COMMON?...THE TURTLES GOT THEIR ASS KICKED. WHAT GOOD IS AN ACTION EPISODE WHEN THE TURTLES DONT GET TOUCHED? BOTTOM LINE THIS EPISODE HAD BAD ACTION. THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS LOOKING FOR VULNERABILITY FROM THE GUYS, AND NOTHING HAPPENED. THATS WHERE MY DISAPPOINTMENT CAME FROM,.. MY EXPECTATIONS. AND IS IT SO ILLOGICAL TO EXPECT THE TURTLES TO GET F***ED UP? WHO HERE, BY A SHOW OF HANDS EXPECTED THE TURTLES TO COME OUT UNSCATHED? ITS DISAPPOINTING ALSO BECAUSE I DONT EXPECT THIS FROM THIS SERIES. THEY SET THE STANDARD EARLY AND NOW ARE PRODUCING BELOW IT. WHATS UP WITH THAT?

I DO AGREE THAT THE SET UP WAS PERFECT AND THE STORY WAS TIGHT, ITS JUST THE WAY THEY SHOWED IT TO US. I'D RATHER GO BACK TO BEFORE T.V. AND HEAR THE EPISODE OVER THE RADIO SO I CAN CONSTRUCT IT MY SELF WITHIN MY IMAGINATION.

I KNOW THAT IF THIS EPISODE WOULD HAVE TURNED OUT MORE LIKE "BAD DAY", "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK", OR "SAINW" THIS THREAD WOULD BE ROARING. TO ME IT JUST SOUNDS LIKE FAN PROTECTION (THAT I MUST SAY, I SUCCUMB TO AS WELL, BUT TRY HARD NOT TOO. ITS NATURAL).

THE EPISODE WAS GOOD, AND I DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT THE SH*T WAS GREAT JUST BECAUSE ITS BEEN A WHILE. I KEEP EVERY SINGLE EPISODE FRESH IN MY HEAD. SO WHEN SUB-PAR EPISODES AIR I HAVE FRESH RECOLLECTION OF WHAT ARE THE REAL DEAL EPISODES.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/LUCKFF/TMNTDVD3.gif

Okay, so your saying the TMNT didn't get their asses kicked? Uh, I wouldn't exactly say they exactly came out of that battle unscathed. First off, it was clear they were only fighting to escape, they couldn't win that battle if they tried. But more importantly, that attack hit them hard psycologically. Their home destroyed, theyv'e lost things precious to them(Splinter's Orb, Mikey's trophy, Don's lab), and you saw what happend at the end. I doubt they'll come out of that without a few bruises.

And did you ever think they didn't get totally stomped because they're skills are improving. True, the Foot Elites basically did nothing, but when the TMNT already have an army of ninjas and two huge Foot Mechs on thier shells, plus the fact their sans-Leonardo, I don't think the Elite's were needed.

I'm starting to think you want to see the Turtles hurt. Haven't they got beaten up enough.

J Legault

02-05-2006, 01:15 AM

I now wouldn't blame Raph for hating Karai from what she just did recently.

She's like this close from being describe as a Bad A** B*tch in my pointerview.

Can't wait to see Leo teach this bad girl a lesson. since he'll be refreshed after the 2 monthes of learning calmness and skills fro mthe Anicent One.

Leonardo Mystic

02-05-2006, 01:16 AM

One word sums it up for me: Wow. This was brutal. Their home is gone, as are prized possessions. I know they're all materialistic, but I really liked the lair, and they couldn't possibly rebuild. It wouldn't be the same even if they could. What made it so special was that it was an Elantian stronghold, and its design was unique. They can't copy that.

It made me sad during the exchange of asking the time, and Don accidentally slips in telling them to ask Leo. This tense silence follows as everyone pauses in their activities, and looks distraught. He forgot Leo hasn't been home in over two months. They really miss him.

Speaking of, was it just me, or did anyone else happen to notice Leo's shell? The wound didn't appear quite as large as it has been, and it seemed there was even new growth of it. Perhaps it could be healing now that Leo is recovering spiritually? I may have to go back over that scene to look more closely, but it did appear so.

Karai: Okay... Can we say "therapist"? The woman has some serious screws loose, but I have no sympathy for her. I don't pity or feel sorry for her. I loathe her. Hopefully Leo can knock some sense back into her, but I want to see her suffer as she has made them suffer. No mercy! (Sorry Karai fans.)

I can't wait to see next week's episode.

VaughnMichael

02-05-2006, 01:25 AM

Okay, so your saying the TMNT didn't get their asses kicked? Uh, I wouldn't exactly say they exactly came out of that battle unscathed. First off, it was clear they were only fighting to escape, they couldn't win that battle if they tried. But more importantly, that attack hit them hard psycologically. Their home destroyed, theyv'e lost things precious to them(Splinter's Orb, Mikey's trophy, Don's lab), and you saw what happend at the end. I doubt they'll come out of that without a few bruises.

And did you ever think they didn't get totally stomped because they're skills are improving. True, the Foot Elites basically did nothing, but when the TMNT already have an army of ninjas and two huge Foot Mechs on thier shells, plus the fact their sans-Leonardo, I don't think the Elite's were needed.

I'm starting to think you want to see the Turtles hurt. Haven't they got beaten up enough.
I just realized what it was...or is....they didnt stand and fight like they always do...they ran away..that is not like the turtles I know and love.....they would fight to the end to protect everything.....just seems like they where running away so they could be in those vehicles.....we've seen them fight much larger groups of foot before to along with the Elite Guards..so I dont see why they couldnt have tken them out...I guess cause the good old golden leader boy wasn't there...Leos always gotta be the big hero and save the day...
-Putrescent..

GK Punk

02-05-2006, 01:46 AM

But sometimes, you have to know when it's time to regroup. They knew at that moment there was no way they could beat the foot at that time, so they had to take off and get their heads back together.

I think it makes alot of sense why they left. It's just like why they left in the first movie when the foot attacked them at April's apartment.

Masked Ninja

02-05-2006, 03:27 AM

I just realized what it was...or is....they didnt stand and fight like they always do...they ran away..that is not like the turtles I know and love.....they would fight to the end to protect everything.....just seems like they where running away so they could be in those vehicles.....we've seen them fight much larger groups of foot before to along with the Elite Guards..so I dont see why they couldnt have tken them out...I guess cause the good old golden leader boy wasn't there...Leos always gotta be the big hero and save the day...
-Putrescent..Except these weren't "spat onto the streets" normal Foot ninjas like they've been fighting. These guys are f'real. I believe Don even noted that they were souped-up during the intro.

Add to that: the Turtles are reeling from the simple shock of getting their lair busted into. They had been carrying on with life as usual, and suddenly they are under attack? This is worse than getting a surprise attack in the streets. This is like... calmly watching a movie in your living room, when suddenly you turn around and there's a whole army there.

And it's true... they were going for evasion, not attack. Attack puts you in harm's way a bit more often than simply trying to run does. So they would get hurt less. But they certainly didn't make it through the whole thing unscathed. Ask Splinter. And even the guys took some hits, if not major ones, during the battle. Remember that when confined in close quarters with no escape, Raph's elevator fight with those three Foot had him beat up/exhausted enough to stumble out into the warehouse, rather than walk. And that's very true what ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael (whew!) said: This attack was a major psychological blow. It hurt bad... just more obviously from a mental standpoint.

And finally... even with Leo, Usagi, and Leatherhead added to the mix, they wouldn't have been able to beat this bunch. Leo's not always the day-savin' golden boy. He gets to fight the big baddies, sure... but him being in the lair would NOT have automatically meant they would have won. Nor does the others losing without him make them weak and Leo all-too-strong. It makes an army of Foot and 2-3 giant robots stronger than three turtles and a rat. Duh.

And my final bit of this short rant:
How would I rate this epsiode? Good. Great, even. Ranking with the best TMNT 2k3 episodes of all time?! No, not quite. There are some I like better. But this one was certainly a good effort, and a great way to break that streak of reruns. If you expect a show to keep topping itself... that's unrealistic and you'll be disappointed. If you expect it to stay reasonably good, then the normal epsiodes will be satisfactory, the great ones will be a pleasure, and the knock-'em-dead awesome ones will blow you away. ;)

Anarky

02-05-2006, 03:41 AM

The Battleshell and that drill-thing destroyed? New toys! That was my first thought when I saw those vehicles smashed up. Of course the TMNT aren't dead and I expected Karai to at least order her men to get the bodies of the TMNT and Splinter to some place. Supervilains always forget to make sure that their enemies are dead.

I loved the intro, Don expressing his concerns for everyone. That adds a lot to his character, because before that, he was just there and did stuff. And it's a good thing that Leo didn't bust in to save the day. And probably the best thing was that the Shredder is now Karai. Sure it was predictable, but just remember that the Utrom returned many, many times. And am I the only one who doesn't like Karai's voice? Other than that, there wasn't too much to say, because the episode didn't have anything that could remotely be called a story. But that's what multiparters are for, yay.

But it was a good episode, not outstanding, but good.

VaughnMichael

02-05-2006, 03:45 AM

Except these weren't "spat onto the streets" normal Foot ninjas like they've been fighting. These guys are f'real. I believe Don even noted that they were souped-up during the intro.

Add to that: the Turtles are reeling from the simple shock of getting their lair busted into. They had been carrying on with life as usual, and suddenly they are under attack? This is worse than getting a surprise attack in the streets. This is like... calmly watching a movie in your living room, when suddenly you turn around and there's a whole army there.

And it's true... they were going for evasion, not attack. Attack puts you in harm's way a bit more often than simply trying to run does. So they would get hurt less. But they certainly didn't make it through the whole thing unscathed. Ask Splinter. And even the guys took some hits, if not major ones, during the battle. Remember that when confined in close quarters with no escape, Raph's elevator fight with those three Foot had him beat up/exhausted enough to stumble out into the warehouse, rather than walk. And that's very true what ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael (whew!) said: This attack was a major psychological blow. It hurt bad... just more obviously from a mental standpoint.

And finally... even with Leo, Usagi, and Leatherhead added to the mix, they wouldn't have been able to beat this bunch. Leo's not always the day-savin' golden boy. He gets to fight the big baddies, sure... but him being in the lair would NOT have automatically meant they would have won. Nor does the others losing without him make them weak and Leo all-too-strong. It makes an army of Foot and 2-3 giant robots stronger than three turtles and a rat. Duh.

And my final bit of this short rant:
How would I rate this epsiode? Good. Great, even. Ranking with the best TMNT 2k3 episodes of all time?! No, not quite. There are some I like better. But this one was certainly a good effort, and a great way to break that streak of reruns. If you expect a show to keep topping itself... that's unrealistic and you'll be disappointed. If you expect it to stay reasonably good, then the normal epsiodes will be satisfactory, the great ones will be a pleasure, and the knock-'em-dead awesome ones will blow you away. ;)
I'm gonna be very honest I was just giving round about answeres before but I'm just really sick of the same old foot clan attacks tmnt....tmnt get ticked...shredder in whatever form comes along kicks butt bla bla bla leo or splinter kick shredders butt something happens aprils shop gets destroyed now there home...it's just the same story over and over...I love the turtles more then anything to be honest...and it's just dissapointing is all to see the same thing over and over...sure the old show was like that but atleast some differnt things where added in to mix it up....like I said before and this will be my last time defending what I believe it was a decent episode not a great one though....then have, can, and will do better...thats all I'm saying...
I'm just really ready for it all to move on allready....
-Putrescent

trez

02-05-2006, 04:22 AM

But what happens with Leatherhead and Fugitoid? They live close by dont they?

This could just be me, but I always assumed that The Fugitoid and Leatherhead rejoined the Utroms after Exodus.

Stephen

02-05-2006, 07:36 AM

Mikey's comics are probably ashes, by now.

Not all of them ... Gen stole Mikey's Silver Sentry comics at the end of "Samurai Tourist"

J Legault

02-05-2006, 09:33 AM

And he would have to wait for the Next Battle Nexus Tourment to compete for a new trophy, if he were able to get though all the rounds once more.

TheGreenMagic

02-05-2006, 10:02 AM

I believe I shall be throwing in my support to the notion that it's probably for the best that the darker, edgier and quite honestly overly violent and angry Leo is no longer present (assumming these events don't push him over the edge again, though I personally have my doubts that will be the case).

I'm inclined to compare it a bit to Star Wars. Obi-Wan and Yoda gave up on Vader and thus Obi-Wan went after his former friend to kill him. That ended up only driving Vader deeper into the Dark Side. Then Luke comes along, consumed with anger and a lust for revenge against Vader in The Empire Strikes Back... and he failed. He failed not only to get the revenge he craved, but he lost the duel as well and lost so much more.

But when Luke approached his father calm and collected in Return of the Jedi (at least when his anger wasn't being brought forth by Vader's own words) he was able to bring his father back from the brink, made him confront his own failings and issues and turn away from the poisons the Emperor had put in his mind.

I see the situation with Karai being fairly similar. If the Leo we've had during the majority of Season 4 was around for this episode and went after Karai like he went after the Rat King... he'd only make this bad situation even worse, IMO.

Now, the calm and collected Leo of old... he has a chance to bring the violence to an end without as much bloodshed and possibly make a certain someone confront the growing darkness in their heart and thus possibly save that someone's soul (so to speak).

But anyway, I'll simply say this: The Shredder was defeated by the TMNT and the Ultroms, but his legacy remains and the only one who can truly destroy that is Karai herself.

onyx

02-05-2006, 10:18 AM

Overally, I liked the episode. Bad thing is we don't know how the foot found the lair, where those robot thingies came from and so on, the episode left many questions unanswered. We can make theories, but can't be really sure.

It looked like there are swarms of foot soldiers, but in the battle scenes the turtles were always fighting with 3-5 at a time. That left the impression that most of the time the big robots and the rest of the foot were having coffee or something ;)

I wonder where the Turtles will live from now on...

And, not to disappoint everyone, but April knows very well who Karai is. Remember the episode in which Saki was building the spaceship? He was all over the news leaving everything to Karai, who was standing right next to him. I doubt that April is as blind as that, to me this is a plot error.

EDIT: The episode is Exodus Part 1. April even enters the same meeting together with Casey, Mikey and Raph. There is no way that she missed Karai.

LUCKFF

02-05-2006, 10:40 AM

Okay, so your saying the TMNT didn't get their asses kicked? Uh, I wouldn't exactly say they exactly came out of that battle unscathed.
YES THATS EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING. DID YOU WATCH EPISODE #92 OR ARE YOU ALREADY INTO #93???????????????? DO YOU JUST BLANK OUT WHEN THINGS DONT GO RIGHT IN YOUR FAVORITE SHOW. THE TURTLES WEREN'T TOUCHED. HOW CAN THIS BE DEBATABLE????????

First off, it was clear they were only fighting to escape, they couldn't win that battle if they tried. But more importantly, that attack hit them hard psycologically. Their home destroyed, theyv'e lost things precious to them(Splinter's Orb, Mikey's trophy, Don's lab), and you saw what happend at the end. I doubt they'll come out of that without a few bruises.
WITH THIS I AGREE. I KNOW THAT ATTENTION DID NOT WANT TO BE DRAWN AWAY FROM THE SENTIMENTAL DESTRUCTION THAT OCCURRED, SO THATS WHY THE WRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THE TURTLES SMASHED. BUT TO NOT TOUCH THEM AT ALL? THATS AN EXTREME. THE TURTLES HAVE FOUGHT LESS FOOT AND GOT TOUCHED MORE. ITS UNREALISTIC, COULD NOT A MIDDLE GROUND BE FOUND? IT HAS BEFORE, WHEN APRILS APARTMENT AND SHOP GOT DESTROYED BY SHREDDER AND FOOT.

And did you ever think they didn't get totally stomped because they're skills are improving. True, the Foot Elites basically did nothing, but when the TMNT already have an army of ninjas and two huge Foot Mechs on thier shells, plus the fact their sans-Leonardo, I don't think the Elite's were needed
I'm starting to think you want to see the Turtles hurt. Haven't they got beaten up enough.
I HATE UNTOUCHABLE CHARACTERS, AND I FEEL UNDER ALL THAT FAN PROTECTION YOU HAVE THERE, THAT YOU DO TOO. WHAT YOU ARE TELLING ME IS THAT AT THIS RATE THE TURTLES WILL BE UNTOUCHABLE. THAT REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH IMPROVEMENT THE FOOT MAY SHOW THAT THE TURTLES ARE 5 LEVELS PASSED THAT, ALWAYS!!!!!!! WE ALL KNOW WHY THE ELITE WERE IGNORED. BECAUSE IF THE WRITERS DID THROW THEM IN THERE THEY'D KNOW THAT IT WOULD BE TOO MUCH TO BELIEVE THAT THE GUYS ESCAPED ALL OF THAT. BUT WHEN YOU SUBTRACT 4 GUYS FROM THE FOOTS TEAM, THEN THE TURTLES CAN NEVER BE TOUCHED? THATS AN INCREDIBLE FINE LINE. I DO WANT THE TURTLES HURT, THE SAME WAY I WANT BATMAN HURT, ITS GOOD FOR THE DRAMA OF IT ALL. THE BEST FIGHTS AREN'T THOSE THAT ARE ONE SIDED, THE BEST FIGHTS ARE THOSE THAT COME DOWN TO THE LAST PUNCH.

vagrant718

02-05-2006, 10:56 AM

This was a pretty intense episode.

Anybody else noticed if Leo's scar healed or not, it look like it did but they didnt show us a clear shot.

Katie

02-05-2006, 11:02 AM

This was a pretty intense episode.

Anybody else noticed if Leo's scar healed or not, it look like it did but they didnt show us a clear shot.

It was still there....for whatever symbolism that means :)

Stephen

02-05-2006, 11:20 AM

Overally, I liked the episode. Bad thing is we don't know how the foot found the lair

Probably from the knowledge gained by the Foot Mystics in "Bad Day"

LUCKFF

02-05-2006, 11:24 AM

It Didnt Heal. They Showed A Clear Shot Of It When He Jumped Toward His Master.

longing for leo

02-05-2006, 11:29 AM

WHAT GOOD IS AN ACTION EPISODE WHEN THE TURTLES DONT GET TOUCHED? BOTTOM LINE THIS EPISODE HAD BAD ACTION. THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS LOOKING FOR VULNERABILITY FROM THE GUYS, AND NOTHING HAPPENED. THATS WHERE MY DISAPPOINTMENT CAME FROM,.. MY EXPECTATIONS. AND IS IT SO ILLOGICAL TO EXPECT THE TURTLES TO GET F***ED UP? WHO HERE, BY A SHOW OF HANDS EXPECTED THE TURTLES TO COME OUT UNSCATHED? ITS DISAPPOINTING ALSO BECAUSE I DONT EXPECT THIS FROM THIS SERIES.

I KNOW THAT ATTENTION DID NOT WANT TO BE DRAWN AWAY FROM THE SENTIMENTAL DESTRUCTION THAT OCCURRED, SO THATS WHY THE WRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THE TURTLES SMASHED. BUT TO NOT TOUCH THEM AT ALL? THATS AN EXTREME. THE TURTLES HAVE FOUGHT LESS FOOT AND GOT TOUCHED MORE. ITS UNREALISTIC, COULD NOT A MIDDLE GROUND BE FOUND? IT HAS BEFORE, WHEN APRILS APARTMENT AND SHOP GOT DESTROYED BY SHREDDER AND FOOT.

I HATE UNTOUCHABLE CHARACTERS. AT THIS RATE THE TURTLES WILL BE UNTOUCHABLE. REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH IMPROVEMENT THE FOOT MAY SHOW THAT THE TURTLES ARE 5 LEVELS PASSED THAT, ALWAYS!!!!!!! WE ALL KNOW WHY THE ELITE WERE IGNORED. BECAUSE IF THE WRITERS DID THROW THEM IN THERE THEY'D KNOW THAT IT WOULD BE TOO MUCH TO BELIEVE THAT THE GUYS ESCAPED ALL OF THAT. BUT WHEN YOU SUBTRACT 4 GUYS FROM THE FOOTS TEAM, THEN THE TURTLES CAN NEVER BE TOUCHED? THATS AN INCREDIBLE FINE LINE. I DO WANT THE TURTLES HURT, THE SAME WAY I WANT BATMAN HURT, ITS GOOD FOR THE DRAMA OF IT ALL. THE BEST FIGHTS AREN'T THOSE THAT ARE ONE SIDED, THE BEST FIGHTS ARE THOSE THAT COME DOWN TO THE LAST PUNCH.
Hmm, I know what you mean about liking seeing evidence that the "heros" are mortal. My favorite eps (SSB, SaiNW, Exodus, and BD) are all full of this abuse. And the inflation (of more and more and always badder baddies in every fight to keep them from getting "boring" or "repetative") does get a little tiring/unrealistic. I would argue, however, that (even with the baddie inflation and lack of on screen injuries) this episode did have a certain extent of turtle thrashing. Let me explain:

1. Obviously the sentimental/material loss has been explored and achnowledged. They've suffered a major blow to their psyches.

2. Fear: the, "wow, we're really vulnerable. I bet there's no place in this city where we can live and let live without being or putting others in danger. Crud that sucks."

3. Physical: while I agree that there was no where as much as there should have been with the amount of firepower/skill against them, nor as much as past eps, I'd still argue that they got beaten up. Karai was really kicking Splinter around. He was slashed by Karai's claws--as in, the artists actually drew the 3 lines over his heart! He had to be physically supported by Don the whole time after that. Seems to me that Splinter was physically injured.

As others have mentioned before, Raph must have been injured since the guy was practically falling over in & going out of the elevator. I'd say When Mr. I won't admit defeat/weakness actually shows a reluctance to fight and physical weakness in the form of stumbling and clutching his side (the old war wound/rib breaks re-injured maybe?)...I'd say he was probably seriously injured. The clutching his side thing was probably caused by the huge metal claw squeezing him and throwing him into a stone pillar. Ouch.

And, of course, the fact that they were all in vehicle crashes. Raph's (the battle shell) actually exploded/cault on fire. Let's not forget that April/Casey died from a similar accident in BD. It would be really odd if Raph doesn't emerge (or have to be rescued by our fav boy in blue) worse for wear.

Someone mentioned the possibility that Mikey might lose his arm from that crash. While I don't think he was any more beaten up than maybe bumping his head on the armor plated/lava proff metal hulk of the tank, I do admit that it would be crazy affective if he did. I kinda like how both SaiNW and BD are coming to pass in some ways. It's really cool when eps build on each other like that. I'd think it more likely if Raph lost an eye in his crash, (as the battle shell has been destroyed before, so we know that it's destructable) than Mikey.

So, I'd say that it is most likely that the guys did, in fact get hurt. What I'll admit to is that most of the fight and their injuries where probably not shown on screen, as the fight was very fast paced. This is my main complaint: all of the eps in this season have been rushed. I think that many of them would've done better as two parters. So yes, I agree with you, LUCKYFF, that it would have been more satisfying to SEE the guys getting hurt, I will argue that I do think that they were, in fact, injured.

It would be very affective if they do emerge actually, physically maimed. I'm not sure if I want such permanent changes for the guys though. I mean, they're already losing their home and ALL of their worldly possessions...As others have said, from now on, everything will be different. I fear such drastic change...however, I applaud the writers for being so daring.

Zelda

02-05-2006, 12:38 PM

I agree with you Putrescent, I think what you said hits exactly why I didn't find all the carnage of loosing home/posessions/vehicles all that touching or even shocking at all. It's the same battle again. Yeah, they added the element of being in the lair...but there wasn't a lot of variety inherent in the battle and I'm used to expecting a LOT more....when they do major things like this, they always add in all these fantastic angles and dialogue tidbits and surprises of character/plot/machines that just weren't here in this one. It was just... predictable: lots of foot, foot with big mecha toys that weren't even really focused on, and a Shredder repeat...they even did the same flame thing behind the suit. It was powerful when it was Shredder, once you repeat it so many times it's not as powerful anymore. I think the strongest thing about the episode was the April/Karai thing just because it was a newer twist and the 'ask Leo' thing was a very nice touch especially since *for us* it's been a long time since we've seen Leo too, even if it was the last ep in continuity!

The trophy and Splinter's thing breaking would have been so much more powerful if the rest of the episode had been less repetative and more intense.

Jester

02-05-2006, 12:46 PM

This could kinda be compared to "Shredder strikes back" Leo's incapsaitated. There are Foot "wearing them down with shere numbers." It does seem like the same ole song and dance.
Only diffrences: No Elite action. In SSB the Elite kick major shell, in SotS we have the Foot Mechs (Talk about a 5th mech wrecker, a Foot tech...I'd buy it just for an acurate versionof that guy, but I digress)
No Casey to help save the day. The guys were on their own, just the 3 of them and Splinter.
Other than that it's the same. TMNT gorcely outnumbered, the place they call home wrecked, no Leo. Though I liked the episode, I can see where those of you can see it as the same ole' same ole'.

Jester

02-05-2006, 12:47 PM

LUCKFF

02-05-2006, 01:46 PM

I would argue, however, that (even with the baddie inflation and lack of on screen injuries) this episode did have a certain extent of turtle thrashing. Let me explain:

3. Physical: while I agree that there was no where as much as there should have been with the amount of firepower/skill against them, nor as much as past eps, I'd still argue that they got beaten up. Karai was really kicking Splinter around. He was slashed by Karai's claws--as in, the artists actually drew the 3 lines over his heart! He had to be physically supported by Don the whole time after that. Seems to me that Splinter was physically injured.

I NOT ONCE MENTIONED SPLINTER. I ALWAYS MENTIONED TURTLES IN MY POST. MY ARGUMENT IS THE TURTLES. THE TURTLES. THE TURTLES DIDN'T GET THEIR ASS KICKED.

As others have mentioned before, Raph must have been injured since the guy was practically falling over in & going out of the elevator. I'd say When Mr. I won't admit defeat/weakness actually shows a reluctance to fight and physical weakness in the form of stumbling and clutching his side (the old war wound/rib breaks re-injured maybe?)
RAPH NOT ONCE CLUTCHED HIS SIDE. NOT ONCE. WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM? AGAIN... HAS EPISODE #93 AIRED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD, BUT NOT NEW YORK? WHEN RAPH STUMBLED OUT THE ELEVATOR, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS TIRED. WHEN YOU RUN AWAY YOU GET TIRED. HE DESTROYED THE FOOT IN THE ELEVATOR. NOTE THAT BEFORE THE ELEVATOR EVEN MOVED HE HAD ALREADY LAYED DOWN 2 FOOT.

...I'd say he was probably seriously injured. The clutching his side thing was probably caused by the huge metal claw squeezing him and throwing him into a stone pillar. Ouch.
LOL, THIS MUST BE EPISODE #93 AGAIN. INTO A STONE PILLAR????????? LOL, HE LANDED STRAIGHT ON HIS FEET AND THEN JUMPED BACK.OUCH.

And, of course, the fact that they were all in vehicle crashes. Raph's (the battle shell) actually exploded/cault on fire. Let's not forget that April/Casey died from a similar accident in BD. It would be really odd if Raph doesn't emerge (or have to be rescued by our fav boy in blue) worse for wear.
REMEMBER, MY GRIPE IS THE BATTLE WITH THE FOOT. NOT THE CHASES. BUT IF YOU WANT I CAN MAKE THIS POINT. EVEN THERE THE FOOT SUCK. HERE ARE THE TURTLES THAT HAVE EVADED DEATH FOR YEARS NOW AND AS SOON AS THE FOOT BLOW UP THE VEHICLES, THEY ASSUME THAT THE WAR IS OVER? SO BUSH BOMBS A SECTOR THAT THEY ASSUME HOLDS OSAMA AND THEN BUSH RUSHES TO THE MEDIA TO ANNOUNCE THAT BINLADIN IS DEAD???? NO, THATS ILLOGICAL, ISN'T IT? STUPID FOOT. EITHER WAY MY POINT IS MADE. THE FOOT SUCK AND THEY DONT TOUCH THE TURTLES. I BET THAT IN EPISODE #93 THEY ARE UNHARMED.

longing for leo

02-05-2006, 02:01 PM

I NOT ONCE MENTIONED SPLINTER. I ALWAYS MENTIONED TURTLES IN MY POST. MY ARGUMENT IS THE TURTLES.
Good point...my appologies.
RAPH NOT ONCE CLUTCHED HIS SIDE. NOT ONCE. WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM? INTO A STONE PILLAR????????? LOL, HE LANDED STRAIGHT ON HIS FEET AND THEN JUMPED BACK. WHEN RAPH STUMBLED OUT THE ELEVATOR, IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE WAS TIRED. WHEN YOU RUN AWAY YOU GET TIRED. HE DESTROYED THE FOOT IN THE ELEVATOR. NOTE THAT BEFORE THE ELEVATOR EVEN MOVED HE HAD ALREADY LAYED DOWN 2 FOOT.
Ah, I guess I was mistaken then. I've only watched this ep (SotS) once, so I guess I only thought I remembered him clutching his side. And I must have merged the Raph being thrown by the claw scene with the one in tRWp1 when UDraco threw Raph into the pillar. Duh, my bad. :roll:

Ok then, I suppose my point is moot. I did say that I too was disappointed with the lack of on screen turtle thrashing. I just assumed that there was more off screen action. I guess not. Too bad...

I still think the whole, their home and all their possessions are COMPLETELY destroyed thing counts as a major blow against them. I know it's not physical, but man, especially for us (audience) this lair was home base...It meant a lot, and now it's gone. I, for one, am a little sobered. I do believe that an ep doesn't have to have violence to be good. My fav scenes are the ones with emotion and/or character development. That's why I'm so upset at the state of Karai right now. She has simply no depth. No one here likes her voice because of the lack of emotion in it? Well, I think that was intentional on the VA's part. I'm upset about it too...but all I can do is wait for next week. I appreciated this ep for what it is; I look forward to future eps for what they can be.

Aska_Badoura

02-05-2006, 03:22 PM

Karai: Okay... Can we say "therapist"? The woman has some serious screws loose, but I have no sympathy for her. I don't pity or feel sorry for her. I loathe her. Hopefully Leo can knock some sense back into her, but I want to see her suffer as she has made them suffer. No mercy! (Sorry Karai fans.)It's okay.. she's pretty hate-able right now. Not only chasing them out of their home, but completely destroying it so that absolutely nothing is left that hasn't been shot, smashed, or burned! That's despicable! And then hunting them down one by one and killing them, (even though we know it's not likely they're actually dead) like criminals, or animals, or something! I'm absolutely horrified. But, for some reason, my anger wants to turn to the writers, rather than the character herself. I don't think this is plausable... maybe after years and years of grieving and not being able to get over it, but not right away, when the last thing she did in their presences was save their lives, only months ago. I don't want to deal with this on a character level. I can't even conceive of this happening. Before, I could understand her, and follow her thought patterns. But this is waaaay out there. In trying to wrap my mind around this actually being in character, I keep coming to the conclusion that it's not possible, and the writers messed up. But, trying to force myself to believe she's done this... this attack is almost unforgivable. It should be unforgivable. She does deserve to be wiped off the map at this point. But I believe in mercy, and in repentance on her part. If this is such a sudden, wild streak of insanity, and in character, she could just as easily swing right back into her right mind. She's mad with grief right now.

I don't really want to see her suffer too badly, physically. What I want is for her to realize just what's she's done. I want her to feel grief about this, to the point of devestation. I want her to feel what they will feel, about losing everything, and almost their lives. If they truly are her friends, and if she comes to her senses and realizes this, the thought of the pain she's caused them should be quite sobering for her. She doesn't have to be beaten to a pulp for that. Just snapping out of it and realizing that she threw away her honor, and betrayed them for nothing (since it was never their fault in the first place), could be very painful. That would be punishment enough for me. This was something completely inhuman, something very worthy of her father, and she *knows* her father was evil. Just show her how she's turned into her father!

I loved the intro, Don expressing his concerns for everyone. That adds a lot to his character, because before that, he was just there and did stuff. I did like that. He said that Splinter tells him he worries too much. I wondered if he fretted over his family off-camera. That answers that.

Not all of them ... Gen stole Mikey's Silver Sentry comics at the end of "Samurai Tourist"Oh yeah! See, he did him a favor! Now if Mike could just get them back without paying an exorbitant fee... ;)

But when Luke approached his father calm and collected in Return of the Jedi (at least when his anger wasn't being brought forth by Vader's own words) he was able to bring his father back from the brink, made him confront his own failings and issues and turn away from the poisons the Emperor had put in his mind.Ahh... good analogy. I just hope she doesn't have to die in the process. That would be depressing. Er, for some of us, anyway. ;)

It looked like there are swarms of foot soldiers, but in the battle scenes the turtles were always fighting with 3-5 at a time. That left the impression that most of the time the big robots and the rest of the foot were having coffee or something ;) You invent a way for animators to hand-draw fifty characters in a shot, fighting all at once, and maybe they'll fix that. ;)

And, not to disappoint everyone, but April knows very well who Karai is. Remember the episode in which Saki was building the spaceship? He was all over the news leaving everything to Karai, who was standing right next to him. I doubt that April is as blind as that, to me this is a plot error.
It was a big crowd. April didn't necessarily get a good look at Karai, and she only spoke to the crowd once. You don't usually get to know the speaker's daughter when she's just sitting there, standing only to say to the crowd, "Oh look! Fireworks!", and you're in the eighty-seventh row. You can't see enough of her face, or hear enough of her voice, to get any sort of idea of who she is.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-05-2006, 04:37 PM

Gemma

02-05-2006, 05:20 PM

IMO This whole episode was a set up for season five, everything they own now is destroyed, leaving them nothing to go back to. Don's lab, Mike's trophy, Splinter's orb... not to mention, there's all of their modes of transport now a firey wreck. It seems that the rest of this season is to be spent with them living on what they have left, which is themselves and April and Casey. I don't think we'll see a new lair until season six, if the info on season five is anything to go by.

For me, this was a powerful episode. They're homeless, no possessions anymore, on the run and no way of knowing if they all survived. It's a tense episode and one that's left them all shattered. It's like having your house burn down in front of you with no way of stopping it.

Definitely a five out of five for me.

I can't wait to see the next one!

Masked Ninja

02-05-2006, 07:31 PM

But, for some reason, my anger wants to turn to the writers, rather than the character herself. I don't think this is plausable... maybe after years and years of grieving and not being able to get over it, but not right away, when the last thing she did in their presences was save their lives, only months ago. I don't want to deal with this on a character level. I can't even conceive of this happening. Before, I could understand her, and follow her thought patterns. But this is waaaay out there. In trying to wrap my mind around this actually being in character, I keep coming to the conclusion that it's not possible, and the writers messed up.Actually... I think this is quite believable. You say this would happen after years of grieving on Karai's part? Perhaps. But I think she's the sort of person to slowly realize the big picture over time. Right now, her loss is fresh. The Shredder was her father, and he's been ripped away from her. One of the earlier stages of loss is anger. She knows she saved the Turtle's shells on that spaceship, and still her father was exiled. Even though they couldn't have known of her self-risking action because they were unconscious, I think part of her anger stems from their apparent "betrayal" after she saved them.

So right now, she's blinded. An emotional wreck, like Leo. Note that Leo also flew off the handle almost immediately, because the wound was fresh. It took several eye-opening experiences to get him back. For her, this is a raw wound, and she's overreacting. It's actually the Utroms she's angry at, but since the Turtles are their allies, she's rashly lumping them in the same catergory... as those who took her father away.

Do I hope she sees the light eventually? Yes, she's an interesting character when not blinded by hate. Do I think this is a misstep on the part of the writers? Not necessarily. I'd like to see, in future epsiodes, little flashes where the old Karai shines through before she buries it again.

As for the "same ol' same ol'" complaint: I'm sure the Turtles are tired of it, too. Nobody will freakin' leave them alone. ;)

LUCKFF

02-05-2006, 07:32 PM

LUCKFF, I still trying to make sense out of your posts, but I'm not seeing it.

The Turtles are far from untouchable. They got beat physically and mentally. Maybe you were watching a rerun of the old TMNTby mistake.

The turtles have been whooped plenty of times. Physicaly(Shredder Strikes Back Part 1 and 2, Return to New York part 3, Exodus part 2). And mentaly(Shredder Strikes Back part 2, Bad Day, Scion of the Shredder). They've took their share of brusies, but they cant get beat every episde. Just like Batman or Spider-Man can't get beat every episode. They're the heroes, the cant get beat every episode, then it just gets old. The TMNT have had fights where one sided like against the Triceraton Army or their early battles against the Foot, and theyr'e battles with the Shredder have come down to the last punch.

What I'm trying to say is, you may look at this episode and think the TMNT are like friggen Captian Marvel, but I don't see it. The TMNT are like real people, vulnerable physicsly and mentaly. And this series has done a great job in showning that.

BUT YOU'RE MAKING MY POINT EXACTLY. YOU JUST SAID WHAT I SAID. I KNOW THAT THE TURTLES ARE VULNERABLE. THUS THE REASON I MENTIONED ALL THOSE EPISODES YOU JUST MENTIONED. I DIDN'T LIKE THE LAIR SCENE BECAUSE IT WAS UNCHARACTERISTIC OF THOSE TOP NOTCH EPISODES. AND THE TURTLES ARE NOT GETTING THEIR ASS KICKED EVERY SINGLE EPISODE. ITS ONLY BEEN LESS THEN 10 EPISODES OUT OF 92. SO THATS NOT THAT FREQUENT. I JUST FELT THAT IT WAS APPROPRIATE IN THIS EPISODE BECAUSE THIS IS A LOSING EPISODE FOR THEM.

AND ACTUALLY THE BATTLES BETWEEN THE FOOT AND THE TURTLES HAS BEEN ONE SIDED SINCE EPISODE #2, IN FAVOR OF THE TURTLES. NOBODY CAN DISAGREE ON THAT. CAN YOU???? THATS A PROBLEM. THE TURTLES NEVER GET THEIR ASS KICKED BY THE FOOT MINUS 2 EPISODES. ITS ABOUT TIME THE FOOT LIVE UP TO THEIR REPUTATION, AND THIS EPISODE WAS PERFECT. BUT THE WRITERS DIDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. THIS IS MY WHOLE POINT. LISTEN IF THIS WAS THE TRICERATONS, I WOULDN'T HAVE CARED, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT NINJA, THEY ARE JUST CANON WIELDING OVER LOADS. I EXPECT THEM TO GET RUN OVER MY THE TURTLES.

Spitfire

02-05-2006, 07:55 PM

I liked this episode alot. I just saw it today. I have to say leaving it open to let us think the turtles are really dead was an awesome idea. I'm glad they did that. I mean we all know their not but if I was a little kid I would be very shocked. Good TV.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-05-2006, 08:06 PM

Okay LUCKFF, I see your point now. But the thing is, the Turtles would've totaly gotten the beating of thier lives, HAD they stayed to fight it out. But because they made the smart move and escaped, they got out.

Your not really giving the TMNT much crdit. They know when they should stay and fight, and they know when to get away, regroup, then come back to fight.

Sakirules

02-05-2006, 08:47 PM

Someone here said why can't raph take Leo's place as the hero. the answer is simple. Raph is not suited for that position. Plus he isn't and will never be the warrior that leo is.

And Leo will surely beat Karai. I mean he's beaten her twice before.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-05-2006, 09:12 PM

I just saw some spoilers for Prodigal Son. Don't really expect anything groundbreaking. It sounds pretty good though.

Duke

02-05-2006, 09:45 PM

Why does everyone assume that the old calm leo is going to try and reach Karai? If i'm not mistaken wasn't it calm leo that thought he killed shredder by cutting off his head. Calm leo is just as likely to kill in battle as pissed off leo. I do hope calm leo returns but i still hope he kills karai. I've always enjoyed the complex character of karai but i definitely would think it'd be a great moment for the show if leo kills her. I don't see that happening but I definitely wouldn't be disappointed if it did.

Torrant2

02-05-2006, 09:57 PM

All in all I thought it was a great episode. It definately should have been an hour long show though. The only thing that bothers me is they always call him Master Splinter. It would have been better if Raph yelled, let go of my father, or something. They always just scream Master Splinter. Just a small rant, sorry.

Spitfire

02-05-2006, 10:14 PM

Well he's not really their father. They were always raised to call him Master and in a sense it's more respect to him for them to say Master Splinter then father. A father could be be someone you hate. A master however is someone you share a very special bond with.

Masked Ninja

02-05-2006, 10:35 PM

I agree, I get warm fuzzies when they refer to him as "father" in the show. :D

Turtleman100

02-05-2006, 10:59 PM

The new foot army was so cool. Karai is a great shedder better them the first one. I wish Karai and April fight. Leo is claming down and what happen to the guys I can't wait until part 2

iris

02-05-2006, 11:09 PM

To me, "Master Splinter" can be as much a term of endearment as anything else they call their daddy. But "father" seems much more personal and informal, like something they'd call him directly in a private moment.

VaughnMichael

02-06-2006, 12:34 AM

Do I hope she sees the light eventually? Yes, she's an interesting character when not blinded by hate. Do I think this is a misstep on the part of the writers? Not necessarily. I'd like to see, in future epsiodes, little flashes where the old Karai shines through before she buries it again.

As for the "same ol' same ol'" complaint: I'm sure the Turtles are tired of it, too. Nobody will freakin' leave them alone. ;)
1. ok if shredder freakin' back handed me in a giant robot body dad or not I would hate him forever...she was on the path to good perhaps the blow to the head he gave her made her insane haha

2. and Nobody has left them alone we haven't seen him since episode 90 :lol:

Someone here said why can't raph take Leo's place as the hero. the answer is simple. Raph is not suited for that position. Plus he isn't and will never be the warrior that leo is.

And Leo will surely beat Karai. I mean he's beaten her twice before.
:roll:
-Putrescent

Masked Ninja

02-06-2006, 12:50 AM

2. and Nobody has left them alone we haven't seen him since episode 90 :lol: :tlol: I guess I was asking for that one. ;)

onyx

02-06-2006, 02:06 AM

It was a big crowd. April didn't necessarily get a good look at Karai, and she only spoke to the crowd once. You don't usually get to know the speaker's daughter when she's just sitting there, standing only to say to the crowd, "Oh look! Fireworks!", and you're in the eighty-seventh row. You can't see enough of her face, or hear enough of her voice, to get any sort of idea of who she is.

But wouldn't April pay attention to Karai on this meeting, knowing that she's Saki's daughter? To me the normal reaction in this situation is to take a good look at her and remember her. Of course they never met face to face, but April isn't that stupid. A woman with japanese accent looking for Leonardo, everyone would guess who she was.

Besides, if they never met before, why did Karai visit the shop undercover? What was this disguise about?

Anarky

02-06-2006, 02:13 AM

Besides, if they never met before, why did Karai visit the shop undercover? What was this disguise about?

You know, I think a person in a Shredder armour would perhaps attract a bit too much attention. Of course, to us mere mortals outside the cartoon world, people wearing armours with lots of blades and pointy stuff and red glowing eyes is the most common sight. I usually walk the dog wearing a classical knight-armour, you know. The same goes with ninja uniforms, very common in real life, a rare sight in Toonsville.

So, to do this in peace and quiet, Karai had to wear common street clothes and maybe that's her fashion sense (Overanalyzing, here we come once again...)

Stephen

02-06-2006, 02:14 AM

Why does everyone assume that the old calm leo is going to try and reach Karai? If i'm not mistaken wasn't it calm leo that thought he killed shredder by cutting off his head.

He could do the same to Karai, but the Censors would probably never allow it.

Aska_Badoura

02-06-2006, 02:18 AM

But I think she's the sort of person to slowly realize the big picture over time. Right now, her loss is fresh. The Shredder was her father, and he's been ripped away from her. One of the earlier stages of loss is anger.Hmm... I do see your point there, too. I think I'm trying too hard to make a perfect parallel of Gargoyles' Demona; part of the reason I think the thousand-year-old-gargoyle went nuts was because she'd been around too long, and saw too much injustice (but it could simply be because she saw more than one lifespan's worth of such things, more than the mind can take. Karai wouldn't live that long). Time can make things worse, but I do agree that's not always so. I'm just surprised Karai's anger would be so violent (and I don't know why I am... violence is something she's grown up thinking of as a problem solver, at least in situations with other warriors). But you're probably right; she apparently needs to take her frustration and anger out on someone right now (although she's done a good job about waiting as long as she has), and the Turtles are unlucky enough to be the only ones available, who were involved. She may cool down eventually (hopefully sooner than later!)

She knows she saved the Turtle's shells on that spaceship, and still her father was exiled. Even though they couldn't have known of her self-risking action because they were unconscious, I think part of her anger stems from their apparent "betrayal" after she saved them.Yes, I think that's the case. She feels like they rejected her even though she saved their lives, when of course she knows that they had no idea. There's a bitterness, "Why weren't you guys watching when I saved your skins, then you might have helped me out a little! Emotionally traumatized daughter here!!"

Do I think this is a misstep on the part of the writers? Not necessarily. I'd like to see, in future episodes, little flashes where the old Karai shines through before she buries it again.That I would like. And I do realize how much she's paralleling Leo's reaction, but I did think that he was rather out of character, too. In retrospect, I'm getting used to the idea, and I kinda see where it could come from. I think I just haven't seen Karai enough this season to get used to it yet. But her destroying their home was above and beyond any insane thing Leo's done so far. But then, she's never had a firmly stable platform to place her sanity on, considering her father was practically evil incarnate. Leo, on the other hand, had a good example.

Why does everyone assume that the old calm leo is going to try and reach Karai? If i'm not mistaken wasn't it calm leo that thought he killed shredder by cutting off his head.Karai is not the Shredder. There was not an honorable tentacle on his body. Her life practically revolves around honor; it's just that right now she's trying to defend the wrong honor: she's defending a fantasy of what her master should have been like. She needs to be reminded of how rotten the Shredder's actions were. She's deluded right now, and if she ever comes back to reality, she's gonna be mortified. The Shredder, on the other hand, knew perfectly well what he was doing, and he didn't care.

1. ok if shredder freakin' back handed me in a giant robot body dad or not I would hate him forever...she was on the path to good perhaps the blow to the head he gave her made her insane haha:lol: That's it! Thank you! You've solved my dilemma! ;)

Stephen

02-06-2006, 02:20 AM

not to mention, there's all of their modes of transport now a firey wreck.

The Sub might be salvagable ....

For me, this was a powerful episode. They're homeless, no possessions anymore, on the run and no way of knowing if they all survived.

They're not entirely homeless. There's still Casey's farmhouse (unless that is also destroyed by the end of the season) or they could always retreat to the Battle Nexus and move in with the Daimyo for a while.

onyx

02-06-2006, 02:28 AM

Anarky

02-06-2006, 02:30 AM

Have we ever seen her wearing winter clothes?

Didn't I say that we're going to overanalyze over this? :D

onyx

02-06-2006, 02:32 AM

Didn't I say that we're going to overanalyze over this? :D

Why overanalyzing, I'm just wondering ;) To me, this was a disguise.

As for the winter clothes, I doubt her "summer" and "winter" styles differ so much :evilgrin:

Mandi-chan

02-06-2006, 03:01 AM

You know, I think a person in a Shredder armour would perhaps attract a bit too much attention. Of course, to us mere mortals outside the cartoon world, people wearing armours with lots of blades and pointy stuff and red glowing eyes is the most common sight. I usually walk the dog wearing a classical knight-armour, you know. The same goes with ninja uniforms, very common in real life, a rare sight in Toonsville.

So, to do this in peace and quiet, Karai had to wear common street clothes and maybe that's her fashion sense (Overanalyzing, here we come once again...)

:lol:

Anyway...I thought the ep was great, Karai has clearly gone insane from grief from the loss of her ONLY family. I agree with everything the other Karai fans have said, and hopes that she sees the light. She's such a great character (although I like her better when she's sane), I hope the writers don't keep her nutty and write her off.

As to how Karai learned where the Hamato clan lived, I assumed it was from the information the Mystic Ninja gained after they attacked the family on the astral plane. Also, with the redesigned Foot and the Robots, I believe they are the work of Dr. Chaplin. So; while we haven't seen him physically, at least now we have evidence that he's still with Karai (which doesn't suprise me considering the obvious crush he has on her). Hopefully he'll appear in the next ep.

Anarky

02-06-2006, 04:00 AM

GK Punk

02-06-2006, 06:07 AM

Umm Anarky.

Most, if not all of my cats respond when called. I have 6. Occasionally, Simon or Gabriel will not respond, but Artie, Tuna, Bettie and Gally all answer with a little sound when I call for them.

As for the hands covering their hands, yeah that's not gonna happen.

Barkworm

02-06-2006, 06:23 AM

Six cats??? Wow. I'm not really a cat person but that's kinda awesome.

GK Punk

02-06-2006, 06:41 AM

Indeed! And all of them are so different from eachother.
They really are amazing little creatures.

Fledermaus

02-06-2006, 08:45 AM

You have to humanize the animals. It's a freaking cartoon.:roll: :P

Anarky

02-06-2006, 09:01 AM

You have to humanize the animals. It's a freaking cartoon.:roll: :P
May I ask why you have to do that? I can't come up with a single good reason. Sure, we have very unusualy lead characters and enemies, but aside from that, the show's pretty realistic. So why on earth does Klunk need to be a Meowing human in a cat's body?

ZariusTwo

02-06-2006, 10:42 AM

You have to humanize the animals. It's a freaking cartoon.:roll: :P

What an odd generalisation, remind me to stick some "Eliza gets shot on Gargoyles" as an example of how much cartoons have evolved, and are heck, more reallistic than you're assuming with that remark.

Doppleganger

02-06-2006, 11:19 AM

You have to humanize the animals. It's a freaking cartoon.:roll: :P

It's those eyes... They bother me. A cat's eyes should not be so expressive, so human. Perhaps it worked in that one movie "Spirit" but not here. He needs to be just a cat. :P

Duke

02-06-2006, 12:35 PM

Karai is not the Shredder. There was not an honorable tentacle on his body. Her life practically revolves around honor; it's just that right now she's trying to defend the wrong honor: she's defending a fantasy of what her master should have been like. She needs to be reminded of how rotten the Shredder's actions were. She's deluded right now, and if she ever comes back to reality, she's gonna be mortified. The Shredder, on the other hand, knew perfectly well what he was doing, and he didn't care.But honestly would karai not being shredder matter to you if you were in Leo's situation? I can honestly say i'd care less if I was him. She destroyed their home, and almost killed his father plus she had full intentions to definitely kill his father and his 3 brothers. Doesn't matter if she is the shredder or not, she did exactly what the shredder's done to Leo in the past. And I can see calm or rage filled Leo acting in the exact same way in this situation. Leo would go for her head just like he went for Saki's head. I know this isn't going to happen. But let's be honest Leo trying to reach out to Karai shouldn't happen either. Leo learned his lesson about listening to Splinter way back in "the shredder strikes" and if Splinter says there is no saving her I can't see Leo thinking there is.

Fledermaus

02-06-2006, 12:53 PM

W.T.B.F:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: .... Zarius, Anarky, my intelligent friends...

It was a bloody joke. Notice the eyes rolling?

I meant, which none of you seemed to grasp, was that it's just so cliche in cartoons to make the animal companions like people trapped in beastial forms (thank you, Disney) -- it's one of those things you groan at after a while.

You guys need to hit something?:blanksta: Next time you find a cute orange cat who can cover his scary eyes with his little white paws, smash the abomination.:evilgrin:

Masked Ninja

02-06-2006, 01:47 PM

Klunk's eyes are a freakish mix of cat/human. And they're HUGE, which makes them even MORE scary. Pick cute cartoony eyes or cat eyes, please. Don't try to mix them. But I've ranted about his design (and the anatomy thereof) before. ;)

Yeah, and the whole "covering the eyes" thing was ridiculous. Might have been meant for a laugh for any younger kids still watching this show...

And thank you, Kittyfebruary6! Our cats sometimes meow when we call them, too. Especially when they were looking for us in the first place. One of the saddest noises I've ever heard is our younger cat looking out the window and meowing after someone who's outside (they're indoor cats).

Some cats are aloof by nature, but most warm up to their people to some degree. It's just the stereotype... heck, Hobbes comes and looks for us because she hates being alone.

iris

02-06-2006, 03:30 PM

Klunk's eyes are a freakish mix of cat/human. And they're HUGE, which makes them even MORE scary. Pick cute cartoony eyes or cat eyes, please. Don't try to mix them. But I've ranted about his design (and the anatomy thereof) before. ;)

Yeah, and the whole "covering the eyes" thing was ridiculous. Might have been meant for a laugh for any younger kids still watching this show...
I didn't see it, but that's what I thought as soon as someone mentioned it. When introducing malicious destruction into the cozy home of teenage mutant hero turtles, best distract the kiddies?

Klunk is a generally disproportionate kitty. I'm waiting for the backstory where we find out what he really is. ;)

ZariusTwo

02-06-2006, 04:20 PM

Raph's Girl

02-06-2006, 05:50 PM

Another thing I noticed. Why can't animals ever be in character in cartoons. I mean, butt-ugly Klunk covering his eyes? I've never ever seen a cat doing that, that's just silly. I also can't stand it when they have scenes in it like "Klunk? Where are you?" - "Meow..." Since when does a cat respond? Not even dogs do that and they're far more communicative than cats.

Klunk is not a normal cat. He's magical or something. Perhaps the reincarnation of Master Yoshi? No cat would be that calm about being in a car chase unless they were magical or from another planet (like the talking cats in Sailor Moon).

I've had cats who've responded to me. The cat I currently have acts more like a dog then a cat. :P She fetches, responds when called, and loves to have her belly rubbed. Crazy cat.

Aska_Badoura

02-06-2006, 05:53 PM

But honestly would karai not being shredder matter to you if you were in Leo's situation? Considering how hard he tried to reach her, I think so! I'm not saying he won't hurt her. But I don't think he'll just kill her, either, unless he has absolutely no other choice. It would be so wasteful, when he knows what good she's capable of, when she's not raving mad. I don't know... I can't predict what will happen.

But let's be honest Leo trying to reach out to Karai shouldn't happen either. Leo learned his lesson about listening to Splinter way back in "the shredder strikes" and if Splinter says there is no saving her I can't see Leo thinking there is.Leonardo doesn't know Splinter believes that. He hasn't talked to him in two months. He may find that out for himself, however. And it may be that he's ultimately not the one who can reach her, and it has to happen within herself. I dunno. There's so much that can happen. I'm going to be climbing the ceiling by Saturday. :rolling: <-- or doing that. :p

(thank you, Disney):lol: I for one kind of enjoy humanized animals. They're fun. And I can't think of how many times I wish I could reason with an animal (er, well, I'm one of those rescue-the-bird-that-knocked-itself-silly-against-the-window, move-frogs-sitting-in-parking-lots-so-they-won't-get-hit types, I'll admit. It's just so frustrating when they won't cooperate when you're trying to help them :p), and if you can do that in fiction, then by all means, do so! Well, I'm a pretty sappy type person anyway, so I guess I'm just weird. Never mind. Carry on. ;)

I'm waiting for the backstory where we find out what he really is. ;)He's a marsh kitty from the planet Xeborsil, and he'll be eight times the size he is now when he's full grown. At that point, his primary diet will be paper, so Mike will either have to hide the comics, get rid of them, or get rid of the cat. ;)

cowabunga14

02-06-2006, 06:01 PM

I felt this episode was a good way to start off the rest of the season. I really liked the action and the animation. Those Foot Mechs reminded me of somethin' out of Robotech or similar cartoons. This episodes was worth the wait IMHO. I thought Splinter was actually gonna die when Karai held him up like she did. Didn't it go to a commerical after she sliced his face? I don't remember so I was wonderin' if anyone could help me out. This episode was really dramitic for me especially when the Turtles got annihilated by the Foot. I doubt they're dead though. I just wonderin' how the Foot got so good at fightin'. I remember when they always lost, but I guess Karai figured she was fed up with losin'. Karai acted like a vixen towards the Turtles which showed what she was really capable of. I have a feelin' that the remainder of this season will have Karai in most of the episodes. She looks like she'll be a great replacement for Shredder, and she also looks like she'll be a challenge for the Turtles. I really liked this episode so I give it five out of five. I can hardly wait for next week's cuz it looks like Leo will be a worthy challenge for Karai and it looks like the Turtles survived.

Turtleman100

02-06-2006, 06:24 PM

So is this a dream like the episode Bad Day. If not then what is it. I mean I have no clue what this episode is about. every thing is gone.

Raph's Girl

02-06-2006, 06:58 PM

So is this a dream like the episode Bad Day. If not then what is it. I mean I have no clue what this episode is about. every thing is gone.

Donatello: "Is this a dream again??"
Splinter: "No...this is all too real!"

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-06-2006, 07:05 PM

I personally can't wait for Prodigal Son. I'm not expecting any bloodshed, but I am looking foward to some great action sequences.

Duke

02-06-2006, 08:02 PM

Leonardo doesn't know Splinter believes that. He hasn't talked to him in two months. He may find that out for himself, however. And it may be that he's ultimately not the one who can reach her, and it has to happen within herself. I dunno. There's so much that can happen. I'm going to be climbing the ceiling by Saturday. :rolling: <-- or doing that. :pI know Leo didn't hear Splinter say that but it doesn't mean he won't. There is the possibility that Leo will reunite w/ his family before he even faces Karai. Also, all I really meant was if Splinter says there is no turning back for Karai, then I don't see anyone helping her get back to the way she was. Splinter is also right, that's why I like him.

Aska_Badoura

02-06-2006, 08:59 PM

Also, all I really meant was if Splinter says there is no turning back for Karai, then I don't see anyone helping her get back to the way she was. Splinter is also right, that's why I like him.*nods* I was afraid that's what you meant. Well, I'm going to cling to TheLastSonof84's Star Wars analogy, then. All the wise mentor-types thought it was hopeless, and it turned out it wasn't. I feel better that way. :D

Torrant2

02-06-2006, 09:57 PM

You guys need to hit something?:blanksta: Next time you find a cute orange cat who can cover his scary eyes with his little white paws, smash the abomination.:evilgrin:

Thats hysterical. You made my day, thanks.:lol:

Just out of curiosity did anyone else think that the foot swords looked like the guardians swords?

If we're talking about more than one of the foot do we call them feet? :tanime:

Turtleman100

02-07-2006, 12:00 AM

The new foot elite did not fight the Turtles. why????

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-07-2006, 01:21 AM

You saw what the TMNT were up against. I guess Karai felt the Elites wern't needed.

onyx

02-07-2006, 01:35 AM

Just out of curiosity did anyone else think that the foot swords looked like the guardians swords?

Yes, I noticed this and I wondered about it too. I guess Karai has access to more Utrom technology than even her father.

VaughnMichael

02-07-2006, 03:33 AM

Yes, I noticed this and I wondered about it too. I guess Karai has access to more Utrom technology than even her father.
yes she does because this saterday leonardo will kill karai in a final battle then she will get up and pick up her head and walk away because she to is a utrom! dum dum dum :lol:
-Putrescent

onyx

02-07-2006, 03:39 AM

yes she does because this saterday leonardo will kill karai in a final battle then she will get up and pick up her head and walk away because she to is a utrom! dum dum dum :lol:

The long lost Utrom princess Iarak? :evilgrin:

VaughnMichael

02-07-2006, 03:50 AM

The long lost Utrom princess Iarak? :evilgrin:
yes then we can say the show has jumped the shark with the frickin lazer beams attached to its head hahah :lol:

Allo

02-07-2006, 04:41 AM

Noticed many people seem to wish Karai to be killed. How can you kill off such a cool character? Karai my FAVOURITE bad-guy at the moment. How often do you have such a powerful female enemy? I actually hope Karai beats Leo next episode. (I know I'm going to offend many people with that last statement.)

VaughnMichael

02-07-2006, 04:52 AM

Allo

02-07-2006, 06:27 AM

Yeah, I know Karai would never beat Leo. But if she can beat Splinter, wouldn't you think she'd at least have an extremely good fighting chance? Go Karai - I will secretly be hoping she wins. Best female enemy ever!

Raph's Girl

02-07-2006, 10:35 AM

I actually hope Karai beats Leo next episode. (I know I'm going to offend many people with that last statement.)

I've read spoilers for this ep. Karai doesn't beat Leo. However Karai IS one of my fave characters. She's actually cool in a way. :D

Turtleman100

02-07-2006, 11:19 AM

So Does Leo meet with Karai before he know his family is ok or after. If it is Before then just think in I monster when Leo was fighting the Ratking and could not beat him you can hear the anger in his voice. So I wonder when he fights Karai will we hear that voice but with alot more anger I can't wait to see round 4 Leo vs Karai. Karai Shredder outfit is wow. Yes at first it look like we saw the shredder himself but then the shredder outfit change right before or eye and turn in to a lady suit for Karai. ( I wonder what size she wear cause that suit fit her like a dream). April and Karai never met. I would like to know how they met it a live. I think it as something to do with the vehicles Yes we see them in the vehicles but we don't see them drive them near the end of ever driving scene. Plus we did not see Mike and Raph in the vehicles. the shell sub if that is what it is call got blow up. I can't wait until part 2.

Torrant2

02-07-2006, 01:32 PM

I've read spoilers for this ep.
Where did you find it?

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-07-2006, 02:27 PM

Where did you find it?

This is where I found mine: http://www.tv.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-2003/show/11995/spoilers-warning!!!/topic/6544-204218/msgs.html&msg_id=2654176

zkarlette

02-07-2006, 04:40 PM

This was basically a Bad day 2 , now I officially hate karai I hope Leo gets some kind of revenge....

Im tired of seeing the turtles "killed" again and again plus their home got ruined....

Maybe it was a plot from playmates to destroy their lair again so now they can make a new most improved one and make us buy it too....:ohwell:

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

02-07-2006, 04:57 PM

"again and again"? They only died once, in SAINW.

Raph's Girl

02-07-2006, 05:41 PM

Maybe it was a plot from playmates to destroy their lair again so now they can make a new most improved one and make us buy it too....:ohwell:

Season 5 new lair is called the Hover HQ. But they should just call it what it really is....the Technodrome. :P

VaughnMichael

02-07-2006, 07:32 PM

This is where I found mine: http://www.tv.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-2003/show/11995/spoilers-warning!!!/topic/6544-204218/msgs.html&msg_id=2654176
man some one who has an account there needs to tell those people that mikes cats name is KLUNK!!!! not clump glump goop kang or krang! lol dorks
-Putrescent

iris

02-07-2006, 07:56 PM

Im tired of seeing the turtles "killed" again and again plus their home got ruined....

Maybe it was a plot from playmates to destroy their lair again so now they can make a new most improved one and make us buy it too....:ohwell:
Personally, I think it's more realistic that their home is found (and messed up) once in a while, considering that they have fearsome and skilled enemies. They're ninja and can hide their comings and goings pretty well, but Casey and April are as good as bait.

That said, you're right that reinvention is good for sales.

R-iZZy

02-07-2006, 11:07 PM

Now that The Ancient One has probably brought his head back to normal level, he won't be as fierce a fighter against Karai as he would've been in his dark stage.
GOOD! :p
LOL! You and your attachment to Karai. I had faith in her, as well. But hey, she looks like she made her decision, so my sympathy cannot be lent towards her any further.

Seriously, the old Leo will hurt Karai but spare her, as the dark and edgy one will stay focused, obliterate like Wolverine, and care less about it.
And then reeeeally regret it later, probably. He needs to have his head clear when he deals with her, because she needs someone who's not insane to tell her that she is. Come on, they were friends! I for one don't want to see them destroy each other just because of the Shredder. He's not even around anymore! Karai needs to channel her grief elsewhere. Yes, I realize it's because I like Karai, while several other people would rather just see her wiped off the map completely. But really, the production team has been trying to make us care about her since she first allied with the Turtles, and it's worked for some viewers, but not all. And that's fine. But I can't see them building her up to where some of us like her, and sympathize with her, only to destroy her later. Cruel, cruel writers, if so. :(
I'm speaking from a standpoint where he was never sent to The Ancient One. He would really not care much for killing Karai. It would be just like killing any other person without honor, in his eyes. Any person that aligns themselves with the forces of evil deserve death, I think that was his attitude. That's probably why he had no problem snapping one of the Purple Dragon's neck in "Dragon's Brew". The dark version understood that him and Karai weren't friends anymore, they were sworn enemies the minute she stabbed him on the ship Shredder was taking to the Utrom homeworld. His edginess was brought out of him by Shredder, so anything and anyone associated with him would've probably been on his "Kill on Contact" list, and that includes Karai (at least I think). Goodness, he even wanted to take out Hun for good! Just look at what he was willing to do to the "Rat King", not even knowing he was a creation of Bishop. I would've wanted him to maim Karai to the point where she doesn't even want to pick up a sword again.

At least now, he really does understand that they can never be friends again. What she did crossed the line, and I'm pretty sure Leo's memory of their past friendship shouldn't stop him from doing what he has to do, now. Karai's mind is made-up, as far as I can see it. There's nothing Leo can say because there's nothing Karai wants to hear, now that her father's gone. She endangered HIS father... that's a direct slap in the face.

Really, I just want to see Leo destroy her... not kill, but just destroy!

longing for leo

02-07-2006, 11:25 PM

If you want to answer/discuss this post, I made a thread all about my Karai/OC theory...thanks.

But honestly would karai not being shredder matter to you if you were in Leo's situation? Considering how hard he tried to reach her, I think so! I'm not saying he won't hurt her. But I don't think he'll just kill her, either, unless he has absolutely no other choice. It would be so wasteful, when he knows what good she's capable of, when she's not raving mad. I don't know... I can't predict what will happen.

But let's be honest Leo trying to reach out to Karai shouldn't happen either. Leo learned his lesson about listening to Splinter way back in "the shredder strikes" and if Splinter says there is no saving her I can't see Leo thinking there is. It may be that he's ultimately not the one who can reach her, and it has to happen within herself. I dunno.

At least now, he really does understand that they can never be friends again. What she did crossed the line, and I'm pretty sure Leo's memory of their past friendship shouldn't stop him from doing what he has to do, now. Karai's mind is made-up, as far as I can see it. There's nothing Leo can say because there's nothing Karai wants to hear, now that her father's gone. She endangered HIS father... that's a direct slap in the face.

There's so much that can happen. I'm going to be climbing the ceiling by Saturday. <-- or doing that.
I just had a thought (more like a wild/desperate/grasping at staws hope :P )...

You know how many of us think Karai's being OC? ...Her voice, denial of all old care for Leo, honor, or any reason at all, and the whole one-track mind set on achieving one goal (killing tmnt) because of one reason (her dad's defeat) thing...

Well, what if she's being OC because she's not actually in character? What if she's being controlled...I for one am very suspicious of the Foot Mystics, the Heart of Tengu, and their absence in SotS. What if, instead of allowing Karai to control the Mystics, the HoT instead allows them to control her?

I just think it's weird that they suddenly show up and are controllable by some crystal thing. That only after we see her with them and in possession of the HoT did we ever see Karai acting like this (evil/uncaring/cold)

I know I sound like some desperate/crazy fan trying to think of any possible way to prove that Karai is not, in fact, evil and that she has not (permanently) gone over to the dark side....And maybe I am one, come to think of it...:roll: jk :P But really, the thought just hit me that we don't have a lot of info when it comes to the Mystics or the HoT...so maybe they've got more to do with her sudden personality change than just the loss of her father.

I mean, it doesn't even make sense that she would go off the deep end and to the dark side...She saved Bejing, she saved the turtles (Leo especially) several times, apparently she even considered them friends, so why would betrayal be enough to make her like this? She and her father betrayed the turtles (her promise to lift the vendetta and leave them alone)...she even stabbed Leo...right after he'd just saved her...

So I just think that she's being OC and the Mystics/the Heart of Tengu is a possible reason as to why. I'm interested to see if it turns out that anything like this is going on. I imagine (if that were the case) that she's snap out of it during the climax of a fight...maybe the HoT will be broken and she'll come back to herself. Your thoughts?

Fledermaus

02-07-2006, 11:41 PM

I just had a thought (more like a wild/desperate/grasping at staws hope :P )...

You know how many of us think Karai's being OC? ...Her voice, denial of all old care for Leo, honor, or any reason at all, and the whole one-track mind set on achieving one goal (killing tmnt) because of one reason (her dad's defeat) thing...

Well, what if she's being OC because she's not actually in character? What if she's being controlled...I for one am very suspicious of the Foot Mystics, the Heart of Tengu, and their absence in SotS. What if, instead of allowing Karai to control the Mystics, the HoT instead allows them to control her?

I just think it's weird that they suddenly show up and are controllable by some crystal thing. That only after we see her with them and in possession of the HoT did we ever see Karai acting like this (evil/uncaring/cold)

I know I sound like some desperate/crazy fan trying to think of any possible way to prove that Karai is not, in fact, evil and that she has not (permanently) gone over to the dark side....And maybe I am one, come to think of it...:roll: jk :P But really, the thought just hit me that we don't have a lot of info when it comes to the Mystics or the HoT...so maybe they've got more to do with her sudden personality change than just the loss of her father.

I mean, it doesn't even make sense that she would go off the deep end and to the dark side...She saved Bejing, she saved the turtles (Leo especially) several times, apparently she even considered them friends, so why would betrayal be enough to make her like this? She and her father betrayed the turtles (her promise to lift the vendetta and leave them alone)...she even stabbed Leo...right after he'd just saved her...

So I just think that she's being OC and the Mystics/the Heart of Tengu is a possible reason as to why. I'm interested to see if it turns out that anything like this is going on. I imagine (if that were the case) that she's snap out of it during the climax of a fight...maybe the HoT will be broken and she'll come back to herself. Your thoughts?

The stabbing was accidental, and she was acting insane even before this episode -- remember the way she treated the Foot Mystics like slaves? Besides, if the Mystics were really pulling all the strings -- we should have gotten some clues. If they suddenly reveal that Karai was just "under some spell" all this time and all the hurt and boo-hooing will be made better once they destroy the mystical artifact -- total cop-out. Instead of going through an actual personal battle, all they gotta do is say the magic words and *poof* bad guy turns good. That would undo just about everything. Karai's 8itchiness has to be self-induced in order for this to work.

I think desperate/crazy fan is in denial.;)

longing for leo

02-07-2006, 11:54 PM

I think desperate/crazy fan is in denial.
:lol: Lol, probably...but still...
The stabbing was accidental, and she was acting insane even before this episode -- remember the way she treated the Foot Mystics like slaves?
Exactly, the stabbing was an accident (hence her suddenly wanting to kill Leo & his entire family is a bit OC). Also, it is possible that the Mystics wanted her to believe that she is in control at 1st, but really they were influincing her mind (thoughts & emotions). I know that this sounds really far fetched...and to be honest, I don't think that it's what's going on...I just had the "what if?" thought.
Besides, if the Mystics were really pulling all the strings -- we should have gotten some clues. If they suddenly reveal that Karai was just "under some spell" all this time and all the hurt and boo-hooing will be made better once they destroy the mystical artifact -- total cop-out.
Yes, I admit it would seem cop-out/disappointing if suddenly Karai snaps out of it and, "Oh, I didn't mean any of it." I think that (where this theory true) it would be more likely that Karai did harbor these feelings/thoughts of anger...it's just that the Mystics pushed her to act on them.
Instead of going through an actual personal battle, all they gotta do is say the magic words and *poof* bad guy turns good. That would undo just about everything. Karai's 8itchiness has to be self-induced in order for this to work.
I don't think that the hurt would go away at all...especially if the turtles don't believe her. That could be really tragic, actually. And I would hope that it would be a personal battle within Karai that allowed her to fight against the Mystic's influence. I see what you're saying about the "poof, bad guy turns good" thing being a problem...but I would argue (just to play devil's advocate) that she isn't a baddie at all...but is really a misguided good guy. I know, far fetched...but still, is it possible?