Anone else feel Raph gets kinda jipped, personality wise?

[Mulsis]

Raph has always been my favorite turtle, dating back to the original toon...I've always liked him as the rough around the edges turtle, be it with sarcasm or anger. I haven't read much of the comics, but I feel like the new toon has pigeonholed him somewhat.

Let's contrast him with his brothers:

We have Leo, who is essentially the alpha turtle...best of the ninjas arguably closest to splinter. This allows him to branch out more. I could see him wanting to be just as in to gadgets as Don or comics as Mikey, but he doesn't because he feels he needs to sacrifice to protect his brothers. I'm okay with that...and it allows him to grow with the new toon, as we've seen in the fourth season.

Mikey is the creative one, the jokester and seemingly the most physically gifted turtle (battle nexus champion). Again, personality traits that allow him to grow (realising when it's time to be serious, having him be the most sensetive and the most needy of his brothers. The writers of the new show could easily do an arc where he is separated from them, to have him grow and become more confident in himself.

Don, of course, is and has always been the brainy one. Exceptionally too I might add. He seems to know everything from engineering to chemistry to foreign language (I know it's a cartoon, but his contast bank of knowledge stretches my suspension of disbelief). While taking away from his ninja skills, his gadgets have been crucial to the turtles survival and attack plans (had he an april not communicated in return to NY where would they be). But more than that, he's the introvert turtle...content with no seeking attention, causing issues or anything else. He's dependable and modest.

I'm digressing a bit, but the point is, they all seem somewhat more fleshed out to me than Raph. He's the "angry" one. Well, for most of this season, Leo was that way too, but he learned from it...coped with it. If Raph copes with it, you essentially strip away his personality. He, although loving to fight...isn't (and can't) be as dedicated as Leo, and yet doesn't seem to have any side interests the way Mike and Don do...or any traits that would allow him to grow without destroying who he is.

I, for one, think a good path for him would be to start feeling the need to gain acceptance "topside" after all, he's was the one who most wanted to step out in season one, and perhaps the feelings of being ostracized are the source of his anger (do they ever actually explain it)

Longer than what I wanted it to be, but I hope this gets my point across...I'm not expecting the shakespeare-esque development from a saturday morning cartoon, but a little more to the personality of my favorite turtle would be appriciated.

[Masked Ninja]

On the contrary, I think Raph was fleshed out a lot in his development throughout season one. It just wasn't as in-your-face obvious as Leo's. And actually, Leo's personality makes it difficult for good material as the "leader"... get too far from serious, dedicated Leo and it'll feel weird. Raph, however, has a pretty healthy "teddy bear" side that shows in family moments, or when someone he loves is hurt.

I'm just not seein' the "gypped personality" in Raph. They've rounded him out pretty well. Who I think is kinda "stuck" is Don... He's the "techno turtle." He makes their stuff and comes up with the good ideas. But he hasn't struggled with any really negative aspects of this, like the family bonding time he misses out on while he tinkers. Something I hope is to be remedied by his upcoming mutation.

[iris]

I actually feel that Raph displays the widest range of emotions of all the turtles. He acts tough, yeah, but that's just his persona. Raph doesn't have a readily identifiable schtick other than the tough-guy attitude. And the hot motorcycle. :) He's the 'everyguy' of the group, and that's important. I don't think it's pigeonholing, personally.

But it would be interesting to explore that side of Raph that, it seems to me, yearns for a normal, everyguy life. Unlike his brothers, he's got little to distract him from that... so yeah, that's a probable source of frustration.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I actually feel that Raph displays the widest range of emotions of all the turtles. He acts tough, yeah, but that's just his persona. Raph doesn't have a readily identifiable schtick other than the tough-guy attitude. And the hot motorcycle. :) He's the 'everyguy' of the group, and that's important. I don't think it's pigeonholing, personally.

But it would be interesting to explore that side of Raph that, it seems to me, yearns for a normal, everyguy life. Unlike his brothers, he's got little to distract him from that... so yeah, that's a probable source of frustration.

Maybe we'll see some of that in Fast Foward. I mean, with the Turtles being able to live above ground, maybe we'll see Raph in a new light.

[longing for leo]

On the contrary, I think Raph was fleshed out a lot in his development throughout season one. It just wasn't as in-your-face obvious as Leo's. And actually, Leo's personality makes it difficult for good material as the "leader"... get too far from serious, dedicated Leo and it'll feel weird. Raph, however, has a pretty healthy "teddy bear" side that shows in family moments, or when someone he loves is hurt.
Awww! That is such a good way to describe that side of him..."teddy bear" side...:tlove: Yeah, I agree that he's got a lot of personality/complexity...however, I don't think that the writers have been doing much with him lately. Which is ok, for a while, since we've got to take turns. He does get most of the best lines. (let's face it, Mikey's usually just come off as groaners) I do wish that they would focus on Raph for a while, though...cause I love the guy too. He and Leo should have some one-on-one talk time, now that Leo's back with some "official Ancient One wisdom" :lol: and is now able to analyse his own angry behavior & talk about it w/ Raph, the turtle who would most understand.

I'm just not seein' the "gypped personality" in Raph. They've rounded him out pretty well. Who I think is kinda "stuck" is Don... He's the "techno turtle." He makes their stuff and comes up with the good ideas. But he hasn't struggled with any really negative aspects of this, like the family bonding time he misses out on while he tinkers. Something I hope is to be remedied by his upcoming mutation.
Yeah, I'm not going to worry about this until after we see what they do with Gamera Don. Besides, we have explored this...SaiNW is the prime example, of course. And I think we get to see that he's pretty sensitive/emotional in some ways. He's always looking out for/worried about Mikey & the rest of his family/friends. He was the one who showed the most worry for Leo in SoS...And he was so going to hug Raph in Prodigal Son. :P

the point is, they all seem somewhat more fleshed out to me than Raph. He's the "angry" one. Well, for most of this season, Leo was that way too, but he learned from it...coped with it. If Raph copes with it, you essentially strip away his personality. He, although loving to fight...isn't (and can't) be as dedicated as Leo, and yet doesn't seem to have any side interests the way Mike and Don do...or any traits that would allow him to grow without destroying who he is.
I dunno...Raph was able to show leadership skills in Scion of Shredder...and we saw the toll that failing in his responsibilities took on him in Prodigal Son. I'd fancy a guess that he respects Leo and his role as "Fearless Leader" a bit better now that he knows how tough it is on ones pyschie/heart. And he does have side interests...he makes/modifies/is obsessed with his shell-cycle...Which is why I don't understand why he would just let it crash/abandon it after he got away from the Foot in PS! :roll: Maybe he figured it'd be too easy to trace (as Leo did) &/or see from the air. Plus, going to the gym (aka, attacking the punching bag ALL the time) is kinda a hobby...isn't it? I mean, some people go for fun/satisfaction (from the adrenalin/ knowledge in a job well done? Right?) Anyway, he definitely has a sense of humor...and obviously loves his family and has the capacity to care about others...Angel, Mrs. M, Lucy (her cat), Tyler, and of course Casey & April come to mind. I really don't think that this show labels (or has any need to label) Raph as "the angry one." Sure, he can be hot-headed; he's got a short fuse, and can be really stubborn. But some people are just like that. I don't think it defines (or ruins) who he is. Just my take on the matter. :)

[Ryona]

I have to agree with the majority. Raph's pretty fleshed out as he is. But I also feel it's good that the boys stretch out from their stereo-types.

Yeah, Raph is stereo-typed as the angry lunkhead. I think we all agree that he needs to grow out of that.
Is there a logical reason for Raph's anger like Leo's anger? Or is it that Raph is naturally like that? Just angry without reason? Well, whatever the reason, he needs to grow out of it. Leo grew out of his in a few months. Raph's been stuck with it for most of his life and hasn't really grown out of it yet. What's exactly wrong with him? Why so slow to mature and move on?
In this sense, Raph's made the least development. He seems to be the most mentally undeveloped.
Why does Raph struggle with this tedious, obnoxious anger? Why can Leo be helped but Raph can't? It's been old since season three. Raph needs to grow up by now.

If Raph does finally mature, I see him being alot like Raph from the original series. Now there's a Raph who's cool, slick, in control, and thinks before he leaps. A very mature Raph indeed.

[raphaelprime]

to me, the anger is what makes Raph, Raph. I mean, take away the anger and he's pretty much just like Leo. And even though they dont specifically say it I think he's anger mostly comes from having to live in the sewers so much, from having to put up with Leo and Mikey, and that Leo is kinda Splinters lil pet. I mean, get him around Casey and he generally relaxes some.

[Ryona]

Leo is kinda Splinters lil pet.

Oh no you just didn't. Did you just call Leo Splinter's pet? What kinda of ******** is that? Just because Leo is closer to Splinter than the others and shares many of Splinter's interests doesn't make him some ****ing pet. what the ****, man?

I think you had better rephrase what you meant.

[Buslady]

I'd llike ot see more Raph development...We've only seen a small piece of his compassion (like with mrs morrison)...I would like to see more of him better nature. he's capable of being kind and gentle...
It'd be neat, say if Klunkers got in life threatening trouble and Raph was the only one around to help him...something like that.

[onyx]

Is there a logical reason for Raph's anger like Leo's anger? Or is it that Raph is naturally like that? Just angry without reason? Well, whatever the reason, he needs to grow out of it. Leo grew out of his in a few months. Raph's been stuck with it for most of his life and hasn't really grown out of it yet. What's exactly wrong with him? Why so slow to mature and move on?
In this sense, Raph's made the least development. He seems to be the most mentally undeveloped.
Why does Raph struggle with this tedious, obnoxious anger? Why can Leo be helped but Raph can't? It's been old since season three. Raph needs to grow up by now.


There are people who can't grow out of their anger their whole life. There are people who are born angry and die angry. Maybe there are turtles like that too? ;)

I think Leo's anger and Raph's anger are very different. While Leo had a reason to be angry and could grow out of it, Raph is born angry, there is no particular reason. Raph's anger is part of his personality and I doubt that he would ever be able to grow out of it. Maybe he would manage to be a bit more calm, but he will always be impulsive and he will always go off, even for little things.

[Buslady]

Raph's anger does has a root, it's not just a "personality" thing...his anger stems from the fact that he and his brothers are utterly alone in the world, one four of their species. Fortunantely, they were able to befriend a tiny handful of humans but still, he's more aware of it than the others that they still are, always will be the only four. That's the root of it. Then there's branches to it, he gets angry about how people treat each other sometimes, or how after saving someone's @$$ he gets a scream instead of 'thank you', he hates hiding like well, rats...he longs for living normal...there's where his anger stems. sure he is short tempered, impatient and all that...that's just Raph.
I think under that anger lies craploads of sadness, because of their plight in life. How would you feel if you were never able to really walk among humans, in the sunlight, go buy a slice of pizza and walk through the park unbothered? He covers up his sadness with anger. How many tears has he hid with anger? I believe if he cries, he's not crying for himself but for his family. He carries the emotional burden of their lonely life.
He could work out of his anger problems, but I think there'll always be those thoughts that upset him. It may be silly, some people are grossed out over things like this, if he was lucky and a met a girl, fell in love that DOES do alot for somebody like that. It gives him a feeling of normalcy, and acceptance. That's what he wants. And if I know him, he would do his best to make it work as well.

[onyx]

This maybe is true, maybe not. We can't say that for sure.

There are people in real life who aren't having the same problems, but still behave like him. I know such people. They have aged enough for one to think that they can control it, but they simply can't.

Also, let's not forget that Raph isn't alone to be influenced by the situation. Why don't Mikey, Don or Leo show such anger? I still think it's just the way Raph is, that it's part of his personality.

Of course, everyone has own opinion, and I respect that.

[Buslady]

This maybe is true, maybe not. We can't say that for sure.

There are people in real life who aren't having the same problems, but still behave like him. I know such people. They have aged enough for one to think that they can control it, but they simply can't.

Also, let's not forget that Raph isn't alone to be influenced by the situation. Why don't Mikey, Don or Leo show such anger? I still think it's just the way Raph is, that it's part of his personality.

Of course, everyone has own opinion, and I respect that.

Why don't they, because I believe Raph's more in tune to things than the others are. The smaller seemingly less significant things, things the others don't see and he percieves. Ahh what's the use...never mind. :ohwell:

[Masked Ninja]

Raph's anger does has a root, it's not just a "personality" thing...his anger stems from the fact that he and his brothers are utterly alone in the world, one four of their species. Fortunantely, they were able to befriend a tiny handful of humans but still, he's more aware of it than the others that they still are, always will be the only four. That's the root of it. Then there's branches to it, he gets angry about how people treat each other sometimes, or how after saving someone's @$$ he gets a scream instead of 'thank you', he hates hiding like well, rats...he longs for living normal...there's where his anger stems. sure he is short tempered, impatient and all that...that's just Raph.
I think under that anger lies craploads of sadness, because of their plight in life. How would you feel if you were never able to really walk among humans, in the sunlight, go buy a slice of pizza and walk through the park unbothered? He covers up his sadness with anger. How many tears has he hid with anger? I believe if he cries, he's not crying for himself but for his family. He carries the emotional burden of their lonely life.
He could work out of his anger problems, but I think there'll always be those thoughts that upset him. It may be silly, some people are grossed out over things like this, if he was lucky and a met a girl, fell in love that DOES do alot for somebody like that. It gives him a feeling of normalcy, and acceptance. That's what he wants. And if I know him, he would do his best to make it work as well.Agreed. He's just frustrated with their lot in life. And I think Mikey shares this frustration (Don and Leo seem to be content with who and what they are)... the difference between Mike and Raph is Raph stews about it, and it makes him act the way he does. Mikey, on the other hand, kinda blows it off by acting silly and cracking dumb jokes all the time.

...Though now that I think about it... Don and Leo both have outlets, so to speak. Don concentrates on his studies and his inventions, and Leo puts his focus into ninjutsu. Mikey and Raph don't really have anything like that (though I always picture Raph training and working out because he thinks it's fun)... so I wonder if that's the difference.

Ahh personality overanalyzation. I love it. :thyper: :tpizza:

[iris]

This maybe is true, maybe not. We can't say that for sure.

There are people in real life who aren't having the same problems, but still behave like him. I know such people. They have aged enough for one to think that they can control it, but they simply can't.

Also, let's not forget that Raph isn't alone to be influenced by the situation. Why don't Mikey, Don or Leo show such anger? I still think it's just the way Raph is, that it's part of his personality.

Of course, everyone has own opinion, and I respect that.
Well... When he's in a good mood and among friends, Raph's loud and gregarious. And did I mention loud? He's that guy at the party who makes a scene when he arrives. That's his personality. It's type A and attention-lovin if not just plain people-lovin', and how sad is that for a freak of nature? He's frustrated because he has to suppress that.

It makes sense to bring Mike into the conversation right now. Isn't he loud and gregarious? The "party dude"? So where's his anger? Mike's a different type of extravert than Raph. Mike has his words and his imagination. He colors the world with those tools, and lives primarily in dreamland. He doesn't like bland routine stuff any more than Raph, but his creativity allows for variety in how he perceives the world.

Raph on the other hand, as Buslady started to say, is sensuously attuned to his real environment. He wants to engage with his environment and have something new and exciting to do, and he's always on the lookout for it. So he's keenly observant, which makes him a great ninja. Unfortunately, he's a great ninja, and uses his powers of observation to intentionally miss out on new and exciting ways to engage with his environment. Again, how sad.

Raph is capable of controlling the anger somewhat, especially when his family needs him. He really stepped up to the plate when Leo was on his trip down Angst Boulevard. I think that eventually he will become less ragingly angry, but perhaps resign himself to being bitter. :/

I'm pretty convinced of my opinions here, but maybe Fast Forward is gonna come along now and blow my theories outta the water. :)

ETA: Jinx again, MN. And I love ze overanalysis. ;)

[longing for leo]

Well... When he's in a good mood and among friends, Raph's loud and gregarious. And did I mention loud? He's that guy at the party who makes a scene when he arrives. That's his personality. It's type A and attention-lovin if not just plain people-lovin', and how sad is that for a freak of nature? He's frustrated because he has to suppress that.

It makes sense to bring Mike into the conversation right now. Isn't he loud and gregarious? The "party dude"? So where's his anger? Mike's a different type of extravert than Raph. Mike has his words and his imagination. He colors the world with those tools, and lives primarily in dreamland. He doesn't like bland routine stuff any more than Raph, but his creativity allows for variety in how he perceives the world.
Excellent point! Now that you've brought my attention to it, I can really pick out some of the scenes where Raph's type A personality stands out. Like at Christmas, or whenever he's fooling around w/teasing/playing w/ Mikey & Don, and in the beginning of City at War when he and Leo are playing follow the leader/racing. Yeah, I know someone just like this. When he's up, he's really up...but he can and does go to the other extreem. It's almost as if he lets things get to him too much. Like he can't just flow...hey, that sounded like official AO wisdom. Leo realises it too. Raph needs to let things go/flow. He holds on, and when he can't, then it's really bad. Interesting...Maybe no one shares my opinions, since no one commented on my last post, but I still think that both Leo and Raph would benefit from a serious chat. Or maybe, as you suggested, Raph would do better getting advice from Mikey.

Raph on the other hand, as Buslady started to say, is sensuously attuned to his real environment. He wants to engage with his environment and have something new and exciting to do, and he's always on the lookout for it. So he's keenly observant, which makes him a great ninja. Unfortunately, he's a great ninja, and uses his powers of observation to intentionally miss out on new and exciting ways to engage with his environment. Again, how sad.
What types of "new and exciting ways to engage with his environment that he intentionally misses out on" are you talking about? I'm interested...I just don't understand what you mean.

And I love ze overanalysis.
Oh yeah...you know we all do! :D

[iris]

What types of "new and exciting ways to engage with his environment that he intentionally misses out on" are you talking about? I'm interested...I just don't understand what you mean.
*bites lip* Um...

I just mean that Raph's the type of guy who wants to "live life to the fullest." He'd love to experience as many different aspects of life as he can. What's on his list? You'd have to ask Raph. :P

But it's not in the cards, at least the way Raphael sees it. He's permanently on the sidelines, and he has to work at staying there... he has to work at staying hidden. The kicker is he's really good at staying hidden because he can see (and therefore avoid) all the ways he could potentially interact with people. That's how I see Raph anyway.

[raphaelprime]

Oh no you just didn't. Did you just call Leo Splinter's pet? What kinda of ******** is that? Just because Leo is closer to Splinter than the others and shares many of Splinter's interests doesn't make him some ****ing pet. what the ****, man?

I think you had better rephrase what you meant.


calm down, sorry, didn't mean to strike a nerve or anything with the Leo fans. It's just that, sometimes it can seem like that to me. I meant he's kinda, i didnt mean he was all the time, but sometimes, Splinter does rather them be more like Leo a few times, not all the time. again, sorry, didnt mean to get ya mad or anything.

[Jester]

I see Raph's anger as as well placed, but perpetuated by his own temper. He is angry at the world because he'll never have a normal life, the life he craves. His short fuse makes for an easy outlet for this hostility. When have we seen Raphael at his happiest? When he's just being a normal teenager, when he and his brothers are riffing on eachother, when he hangs out with that little old lady, when he and Casey work on their bikes together. As for Raphael being gyped character wise, I say no, though his growth as a character isn't as pronounced and played upon as Leonardo's, it's still there, only more subtle, and if you ask me, just as real.

[redsai4lex]

i agree with mulsis,
i always thought that from the start of the show...
Raph's personality is too thin
raph needs more now that they stripped him of his
quick witted traits and through them to mike...

I think they overdo his anger problem.
he doesnt have enough "calm" time...

[Masked Ninja]

i agree with mulsis,
i always thought that from the start of the show...
Raph's personality is too thin
raph needs more now that they stripped him of his
quick witted traits and through them to mike...

I think they overdo his anger problem.
he doesnt have enough "calm" time...*raises eyebrow* Even though this is how Raph is in the comic books that started the Ninja Turtles? The old cartoon is great, but it's not an accurate representation of how the Turtles were to start with...

I haven't read as much of the comics as I'd like, but I've heard before that even New Toon Raph is toned down a bit...

[iris]

If the complaint is that Raph's characterization and evolution are too subtle, then that's a complaint I welcome. That's the amazing finesse that I love in this show. People don't usually change quickly and dramatically. And I agree with Jester that there have been perceptible changes in Raph's character.

On the surface, it's tempting to say that Leo's change was dramatic, but look at where he started and where he ended. He and the clan (and the audience!) had a rough time in the interim, but the net change in his character can't be called extreme. Yet, it's not a cop-out. The experience did change him.

[Mulsis]

I don't take issue with Raph being the tempremental turtle. He's supposed to be. It's just that...it seems to me like every one of his lessons always turns out to be "wow..I shouldn't be such a hothead." And then, boom...next episode he flies off again. It's kind of old.

And besides, they beat you over the head with it. It's always "wow, he's such a hothead" or "I hate it when Leo acts like me." The other Turtle personalites seem to be presented much more naturally. For instance, Mikey gets told he reads to many comics, or is disciplined by Splinter for not being disciplined enough, but it seems like they don't say "Wow, mikey, you're obviously the goofy, jokey turtle." I mean, I"m sure there's a couple examples, but they don't seem as blunt, contrived, or forced.

*shrug* I guess I'm in the minority here though.

[Masked Ninja]

For instance, Mikey gets told he reads to many comics, or is disciplined by Splinter for not being disciplined enough, but it seems like they don't say "Wow, mikey, you're obviously the goofy, jokey turtle." I mean, I"m sure there's a couple examples, but they don't seem as blunt, contrived, or forced."Geez, where's your "off" switch?!"

I think they may be "emphasizing" it in Raph's case because he's the one who makes the most dramatic departure from the setup in the old toon (that is, the old toon changes Raph the most from the original comics). So they have to make it clear to the little kiddies (and vets of the old show) that Raph here is angry because subtle things conflict with his personality, not for no reason.

I guess we have to remember that this show is supposedly aimed at kids. Hence all the weird monsters and vehicles... good for toys. And while the storylines are way more mature than most cartoons out there, this may be their last chance to make something kid-accessible.

But mostly that stuff has died down a LOT from the first season, where they were introducing the characters.

[iris]

I'm sorry, Mulsis, I know I'm being argumentative. I'm trying to see it, really, but... I don't. *awkward*

Maybe my problem is I can't remember any big points plot points being made around Raph needing to control his temper in this series. Er... anyone wanna help me out?

I can recall, but not name, some where he just shows his heart, which is fun for me but probably not that great for the kiddies. To me, those are times when Raphael "wins"... against the odds, and maybe against himself. And I can think of instances where Raph has lent gravitas to scenes in ways the other characters can barely approach. How could he do that if there were no meat to his character?

If you ask me, TPTB constantly points out that Mikey's the goof, Don's the brain, Leo's the leader, Casey's the jock, April's the mushy girl, and Splinter's the wise old rat. In that regard, they're all pigeonholed. :ohwell: Mikey's role as the goof is kind of in your face too; they even gave his jokes a bright and recognizable leitmotif. :roll: The kids like it, and I admit to smirking. But my point is, I don't mind the characters being a little predictable. It's believable; we're all probably more predictable than we'd like to believe.

[Buslady]

...Though now that I think about it... Don and Leo both have outlets, so to speak. Don concentrates on his studies and his inventions, and Leo puts his focus into ninjutsu. Mikey and Raph don't really have anything like that (though I always picture Raph training and working out because he thinks it's fun)... so I wonder if that's the difference.

Ahh personality overanalyzation. I love it. :thyper: :tpizza:

Overanalyzing if fun!

Raph has a hobby, his bike. But he needs more. He could take up underwater basket weaving! HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[iris]

Raph has a hobby, his bike. But he needs more. He could take up underwater basket weaving! HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:
:teek:

:lol:

Poor Raphie. He needs a girl. That would be a great hobby for him. :P

[Masked Ninja]

Overanalyzing if fun!

Raph has a hobby, his bike. But he needs more. He could take up underwater basket weaving! HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:Heh. Makes me wonder what Mikey would have to say about that.

Raph has hobbies... but he still focuses sometimes on what he doesn't have. I wonder if that would make Leo's ninjutsu "hobby" and Don's tinkering "hobby" more like obsessions, blocking out everything else. Or, which is probably a bit more likely... they just aren't as bothered by the whole "shunned by the world" thing as Mike and Raph are.


Keep punching that bag, Raph. ;) :tpizza:

[Sewer Bull]

Poor Raphie. He needs a girl. That would be a great hobby for him. :P

I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced a sweet vixen in Season 5... Are they willing to? :|

[iris]

It might complicate things a little. But then again if they do something like that during Fast Forward, they can "erase" it when the season ends. Kinda sorta. (Speaking of, Anarky suggested that going backward from FF might be hard on Mike, but I think it would be even tougher for Raph.)

*grumbles about adverse political climates*

[Sage Ninja]

you know all this talk and comparison about Raphael and Mike are interesting. Because I have always felt that these two are more similar to each other than what people might think. They are both out going and energitic. ANd yet I find it interesting that these two are hardly ever partnered up with each other like they where in the classic toon (where I had thought, they had the most in common with each other). I think that is why I don't care for the current pair ups in this series, with Leo+Raph and Don+Mikey. For some reason I think there dispositions are a little bit jarring, and Leon and Don seem to posses the most similar personailty quirks (I know I gonna get slammed for saying that:roll: )

And yet in this series I notice that Raphael and Michaelangelo don't particularly get along with each other. Raphael shuns everything Mikey says, Mikey is constantly egging him on, Raphael smacks him around, and so on...

For some reason these two are always pushing each others buttons. A little weird, Sometimes I wonder if they even like each other or not:|

[iris]

That might be a nice topic for a new thread, Sage Ninja. I'd like to hear about why Leo and Don have the same personality quirks. :P

And yet in this series I notice that Raphael and Michaelangelo don't particularly get along with each other. Raphael shuns everything Mikey says, Mikey is constantly egging him on, Raphael smacks him around, and so on...

For some reason these two are always pushing each others buttons. A little weird, Sometimes I wonder if they even like each other or not:|
That's called being siblings. It's probably not the most civil, well-adjusted way to be siblings, but it's not unusual. And it's got nothing to do with liking each other. You should see me and my brother Mike. :sweatdro:

[Buslady]

:teek:

:lol:

Poor Raphie. He needs a girl. That would be a great hobby for him. :P

Yah me, I'll take care of him :evilgrin::P:D

As for Ninjara the B*tch, they wont have her in it cause they dont own the property. thank goodness.

[Duke]

As for Ninjara the B*tch, they wont have her in it cause they dont own the property. thank goodness.
What's wrong w/ ninjara?

[Sage Ninja]

That's called being siblings. It's probably not the most civil, well-adjusted way to be siblings, but it's not unusual. And it's got nothing to do with liking each other. You should see me and my brother Mike. :sweatdro:

then why is it that these two seem to be going at each other than more so than than the others. I'm serious, I was watching some re-runs of the earlier seasons and it seems as though Raphael and Michaelangelo had a better relationship with each other than they do now. They interacted with each other more on a more "friends" kind of basis than they do now. Now it seems like they just harrass each other. Dunno, maybe the reason they don't cliche as they used to is because Leonardo and Raphael are on more friendly terms than before,and Raphael now has Casey to be buddies with; but it seems like their Mikey and Raphael's "friendship" now is kinda...not as strong, or kind of meh...

maybe its just me:ohwell:

[Stephen]

Yeah, Raph is stereo-typed as the angry lunkhead. I think we all agree that he needs to grow out of that.

Maybe Raph should spend a month or two with the Ancient one. It worked for Leo.

[iris]

then why is it that these two seem to be going at each other than more so than than the others. I'm serious, I was watching some re-runs of the earlier seasons and it seems as though Raphael and Michaelangelo had a better relationship with each other than they do now. They interacted with each other more on a more "friends" kind of basis than they do now. Now it seems like they just harrass each other. Dunno, maybe the reason they don't cliche as they used to is because Leonardo and Raphael are on more friendly terms than before,and Raphael now has Casey to be buddies with; but it seems like their Mikey and Raphael's "friendship" now is kinda...not as strong, or kind of meh...
Hmm... could be that you're right and they're not as good friends as they used to be. However it could also be a sign that they're closer than ever... I mean, who do you tease more, you're best friends or your passing acquaintances? In the past I sometimes felt like Raph and Mike have an understanding, of sorts, that the others didn't have. Lately I've felt like Mike's getting tired of it. But that's entirely subjective, not based on anything... maybe I'm the one getting tired of it.

But maybe it's somewhere in between... maybe they feel themselves drifting apart, so they harass each other just to maintain some kind of relationship or contact, even if it's not as healthy. But really there's not much to go on. :P

[Poweranimals]

Well I didn't read this entire thread, but here are some thoughts. Leo's anger was fueled more by his inability to do what he felt necessary to get the job done. It was a strong issue that Leo had to deal with.

With Raph, the anger is there mainly because Raph is fueled with a lot of emotion and that's just the way he expresses himself. A lot of people are passive agressive, but Raph isn't like that. The anger is apart of Raph's personality unlike Leo who is the logical one. Raph is far from logical, and isn't wise like Leo or brainly like Don. Mikey is in a similar boat, but he expresses it differently.

I think Raph got a lot of character focus in season 1 and in the past as well. This season has been mostly Leo and Mikey, which is good especially with Mikey who hadn't really had as much of an oppurtunity to get development since he's the biggest source of comic relief.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I'm not very good at typing out my thoughts, but here's my thoughts on the matter. I personally agree that Raph has been jipped a lot from the new series. Don't get me wrong, he gets some nice little moments. But here is how it breaks down in my head, although there isn't much in there to begin with:

Leo: He's been given a cool character arc that lasted more than an episode or two. Definately the one who's gotten the most screen time. (His recent anger problems, trying to solve them, getting beaten by Shredder, Karai, etc.)

Mikey: He's become the Battle Nexus Champion, and has proved it by retaining that title (I think, didn't catch that second ep.) That's a big achievement for the character, one in which he deserves. Has had numerous team-ups with Splinter (against Touch and Go), Leo (meeting with Nobody), and Donny (junklantis). Plus, who can forget his tries (and successes) at being a costumed superhero.

Donny: Hasn't gotten a whole lot, I agree. But the episode "Same as it Never Was" was a milestone for him. This plus the 100th "gamera don" thing helps bring his character up a notch. Plus, his dealings with the crystals in the underground episodes, (and is it me or is Donny becoming a regular ladies man. Damn!) among others have given him some big, shining moments.

But for Raph, other than the first season's "Meet Casey Jones" and "Raph and Lone Cub", I haven't really seen many big shining moments. Definatly not enough for my taste. So again, I think Raph's definatly getting jipped (I know this topic is more about his personality being jipped, but I digress).

P.S. In the eps. where the guys went to different dimensions, am I alone in thinking Raph got the short end of the stick.

Leo: Team with samurai and save a kidnapped prince/king, plus help stop Draco.

Mikey: Join superheroes and save the planet.

Donny: Same AS It Never Was. 'Nuff said.

Raph: Win a race? WIN A RACE??? That's it! I mean come on.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Anyway, ciao. The Express Elevator to Hell is going down.

[Rhane]

As a little note to the different dimensions, it was supose to be pain and hell for all of them, but Don was the only one that really had a dark ending so you could argue no one but Don really got anything out of that ark.

Personally i think Raph gets tons of screentime and i like the anger. I was and still am a loyal fan of the comic ((ok, so i'm behind 3 mounths, i WILL catch up, lol)) and i love seeing Raph the way i've always know him to be instead of toned down like the old toon. ((and yes it's still mild in the new toon two but hey it's supose to be for littles, can't get everything.

[Sage Ninja]

Hmm... could be that you're right and they're not as good friends as they used to be. However it could also be a sign that they're closer than ever... I mean, who do you tease more, you're best friends or your passing acquaintances? In the past I sometimes felt like Raph and Mike have an understanding, of sorts, that the others didn't have. Lately I've felt like Mike's getting tired of it. But that's entirely subjective, not based on anything... maybe I'm the one getting tired of it.

But maybe it's somewhere in between... maybe they feel themselves drifting apart, so they harass each other just to maintain some kind of relationship or contact, even if it's not as healthy. But really there's not much to go on. :P


well, not to be nit-picky but i wouldn't call what these two do as "teasing", its more like "picking on". Frankly if I had a friend who was constantly trying to get a rise out of me, or smacking me, I would get tired of it and not want to be around that person, so if its an unconscience ploy on their part to stay in each other sphears it isn't a good one. They are actaually rather mean and vindictive to one another on occasion. Watching them interact on the screen kind of makes me cringe.

And as to Mikey getting sick of it lately, yeah I kind of got that vibe too, but I doubt he realizes that his actions are waht causes him to get smacked.

[Masked Ninja]

Well, my youngest brother gets like that. We tease him, but sometimes he gets offended when it goes on too long. We don't mean to be hurtful, but it wears on him after a while.

You're right though... I doubt Mikey fully realizes that they smack him when he's being ridiculous. Though the others may not have realized it's getting old to him. Such things happen.

[NightwatchersOnlygirl]

I think Raphael should take up knitting that's funny I am doing a fan fiction about it

As for the girlfirend I counld be come Raphael's girlfreind