Which Turtle's Death Would Have The Biggest Impact?

[NeoBix]

Alright guys! It's time for the big decision!

If they decided to kill off one of the turtles in the new 2007 CGI movie, which turtles' death do you think would have the biggest impact on the other turtles, Splinter, April, Casey, Usagi, all the TMNT fans, etc.?

You decide, here and now!

Make your choice! Choose wisely!

Personally, I think Mikey's death would have the biggest impact on all of the characters in the movie AND the fans too. He just has such a good attitude all the time and he keeps the group in high spirits even when things seem dark and hopeless. Besides, his jokes can make you crack a grin every now and again, no matter how bad they are! :P

I think it would crush the other turtles' hearts, not to mention the other characters who loved him. Raphael would probably be bursting at the seams with vengeance for his brother... which I would like to see him get revenge for it too, heheh.

And the fans... I bet a lot of them (including me) would cry if Mikey died. He's just too important to the team's morale. :cry:

Ok guys choose which turtle's death would have the biggest impact!

[Zachatello00]

Venus DeMilo.

[Revan]

Venus DeMilo.

hahaha, Venus was a mistake

Anyway I would go with the obvious choice... Leonardo. Leader goes down = chaos. Though I do think that any fallen turtle = the demise of the remaining turtles. They need each other and I think the 2k3 does a better job showing this relationship.

[NeoBix]

hahaha, Venus was a mistake

Anyway I would go with the obvious choice... Leonardo. Leader goes down = chaos. Though I do think that any fallen turtle = the demise of the remaining turtles. They need each other and I think the 2k3 does a better job showing this relationship.

ya the movies do a good job as well though.

[Sewer Bull]

Donatello, I say. Anyone's death would leave the rest of Hamato family in terrible grief and sorrow but it is Mr. "Can-Construct-Everything" who provides the clever gimmicks able to defeat the meaniest creatures... watch SAINW to see what could have happened without him aboard.

[VaughnMichael]

i voted don cause hes my favorite turtle...if something happend to him i'd be upset almost as upset if I saw splinter or april die in the old show...actully I think I saw any of the humans hurt in the old show it would have shocked me allot.

[Alouicious]

I have to say that I concur with Sewer Bull and Putrescent. Don's death would have the gravest impact on the others. We saw what his monstrous mutation did to them in the last few episodes of this past season.

Without his technical and scientific expertise, they're just a gang of thugs. Sure, they're the good guys, but they're still just thugs. :)

~Alouicious

[Damien Kash]

Venus DeMilo.

Hey!?that was my line! :lol:

[Ryona]

It's kinda a hard choice for me...
I'm debating between Leo and Don.

Here's the thing...

If the TMNT never had to deal with another threat again and live peaceful lives, I'd say it would be Don because he's the one who makes their lives more comfortable with his mechanical skills. With no Don means they'ed live like cave dwellers with really nothing sophisticated beyond a fork.

But if they had to keep fighting their whole lives, I'd say it's Leo because he's really the one who vastly helps keep the rest of the boys alive. Leo's superior skills & abilities, strategy & tactics, and warrior spirit definetly gives the TMNT the edge to beat the odds. With him out of the picture, the rest would soon get killed off as well one by one.

Since it's likely the TMNT would have to keep fighting their whole lives, I picked Leo to be the one who would leave the greatest impact if he was gone for good.

[Sewer Bull]

No votes for Raphael so far.

"Fine! Go ahead! We don't need ya!"

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

It's kinda obvious. Leo's death would definitely have the biggest impact on them as a "team." They'd have no direction anymore.

[Jester]

I agree that it's a toss up between Leo and Donnie. Leonardo because he leads, and Donatello cause he does machines. (Sorry I just had to...:P) But I also have to go back ot the ole' "Live as a team, die as a team" thought process.

[Jo269976]

I suppose Leo's death would be a much bigger impact, remember the episode in the new TMNT cartoon where he was close to "death" they were all in panic, but Mikey's death would be big also cause he's basically "bringer upper" (he makes everyone laugh when they're down) of the team, so without him they'd all be miserable, but i go with Leo

[tmnt_girl]

hahaha, Venus was a mistake

how was venus a mistake?

[Alouicious]

It's kinda obvious. Leo's death would definitely have the biggest impact on them as a "team." They'd have no direction anymore.

That assumes, though, that none of the others can fill Leo's shoes. The learning curve would likely be steep, but nothing compared to what would be required to replace Donatello.

Sure, Leo's arguably the most skilled of the brothers and is an effective leader, but how many times in the current series alone has Don (or a combo of Don/April or Don/Fugitoid) solved major crises, or enabled them to escape disaster?

Don is an integral part of the team because he's got both brains and brawn. The others have instinct and skill, but they're essentially helpless against the tech/biotech menaces they've faced throughout the run of the show. He's also irreplaceable because, and I think most people will agree, Don's understanding of tech is intuitive. That kind of knowledge will trump any crash-course in mechanics or computer programming that the others could possibly get.

However, I just want to say I agree that if any of them go down, the rest are likely to follow in short order, or be scattered (as we saw in "Same as it Never Was").

~Alouicious

[Sage Ninja]

I think this thread brings into the question which one of the turtles is most important to the team dynamic of the clan that the turtles are in. In ohher words which turtles absence would dilver the most devistating blow to the teams opretions?

Which turtle has the biggest contributions to the team?

I think it goes:

1. Donatello and Leonardo are tied because they are the skill, and brain behind the team...(and for reasons others have already mentioned). Both absences would have devestating affects to the team.

2. Raphael, because he is a fine warrior and his skilled (in my opinion) almost as much as Leonardo, and has great physical prowess. He Also seems able to pull situtions that normally look hopless out of the fire. Plus he is (recently) become rather reliable and authoritve. Raphs absence would have a blow to the team dynamic and how it functions pretty strongly.

3. Sadly I think as far as contribution to the team dynamic and how important he is to the team over all, I think Mikey's absence would hold the least impact to the team dynamic, since he doesn't contribute very much skill or intelliect to the team that any of the other turtles couldn't compensate for with their own skills and know how. As a Warrior he only occassinally stands out and he doesn't seem to have personal skills or that signifcatly contribute to the team. Save being a diversion at times. Although reliable he kinda just makes up the numbers.

[Revan]

how was venus a mistake?

Venus was a bad idea IMO. 4 Turtles is perfect.

[Ryona]

Venus was a bad idea IMO. 4 Turtles is perfect.

Amen to that!

Death to all fifth turtles.

[Jester]

Amen to that!

Death to all fifth turtles.
What about Benny? We love Benny.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Yeeeeeaaaah, that would be a smart move, kill off one of the Turtles. Peter Laird's just gonna wake up one day and say, I know what'll make this new movie great, let's stray completley away from the comics and kill off one of the TMNT, not only pissing off every fan and scaring young viewers, but also kill off any chance for sequals.

But in any case, I would imagine if Peter did(which he wont), it would probably be Raph, and I would think him going out saving the others, making him a hero.

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

I think they'd all have equal impacts-- I mean, Same As It Never Was was really painful to watch all the way through for that very reason.

How would you feel if any loved one died? I think the saddest death would be Mikey just because he's light-hearted. Those are always the worst characters to watch die (think Blue Beetle).

---Josh

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I'd say Leo because he's the one the others turn to for support.

[Sakirules]

Forget about the biggest impact. Which turtle is the least needed on the team? Leo's leadership and Don's Genius and ideas are needed. So it boils down between Mikey and Raph Who could to team tolerate most between Raph's stupity of being a Hot head or Mike's Jokey jokes and sense of Humor? I would say the team is better off wit Mike than Raph. Raph is gets into it with most of the turtles especially Leonardo. He is filled wit too much jealousy. Othe rthan that mikey is a better fighter than Raph, Especially in the new turtle series.

[Sage Ninja]

I think they'd all have equal impacts-- I mean, Same As It Never Was was really painful to watch all the way through for that very reason.

How would you feel if any loved one died? I think the saddest death would be Mikey just because he's light-hearted. Those are always the worst characters to watch die (think Blue Beetle).

---Josh

when I made my post I wasn't refereing to if one of the turtles died, but which turtle would have the biggest blow to the team and how it functions if one of them wasn't around for ever reason. And I choose Leonardo and Donatello because there absence would definately have a big affect on the team.

Forget about the biggest impact. Which turtle is the least needed on the team? Leo's leadership and Don's Genius and ideas are needed. So it boils down between Mikey and Raph Who could to team tolerate most between Raph's stupity of being a Hot head or Mike's Jokey jokes and sense of Humor? I would say the team is better off wit Mike than Raph. Raph is gets into it with most of the turtles especially Leonardo. He is filled wit too much jealousy. Othe rthan that mikey is a better fighter than Raph, Especially in the new turtle series.

I would have to disagree, Raphael is very important to the team and contributes to how it functions. This last past season he has grown and has proven that he can reign in his temper and stay reletively cool headed in a chaotic situation and even briefly take up the reigns of leadership if he had to. The episode where Karai destroys the lair proves this. He is also as of late not as sulky or immature as he was in the start of the series, and no longer goes off in a huff as much like he once did. That is allot of progrssion on his character I think. He is very important to the team, perhaps not to the degree as Don or Leo, but he at least is contributes a bit more skills than Mikey, at this point. So I have to say, as far as right now, Raphs absence from the team would hold a bigger impact to the team dynamic that Mikey's absence would.

Oh and Raphael is not dumb. :)

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

Ah. Man, I need to see this season.

I dunno, with any member missing they wouldn't be whole. But they have functioned at points in time without Raph, or without Leo, and it was never that easy for them. I would say either of those two.

---Josh

[Ryona]

That assumes, though, that none of the others can fill Leo's shoes. The learning curve would likely be steep, but nothing compared to what would be required to replace Donatello.

I can't totally agree with that. There's alot more to Leo than what you seem to see. There's so much variaty of skills that Leo has developed and honed that I can't see any of the others being able to eaqually achieve.

Sure, it would take several years of specific courses in a University to acheive what Don has achieved. But it would also take several years of military and survival training to achieve what Leo has achieved.


He's also irreplaceable because, and I think most people will agree, Don's understanding of tech is intuitive.

I totally agree with that. But I think that most can also agree that Leo's leadership skills, martial arts skills, and strategy and tactics skills are pretty intuitive as well.


I'm not saying that Leo is better than Don. I think they're both eaqually very important in their own way. But I did feel that you didn't give Leo's abilities much credit.






Oh! Btw, welcome back, Space Lieutenant Josh! It's been so long since I've seen you here!

[Sakirules]

when I made my post I wasn't refereing to if one of the turtles died, but which turtle would have the biggest blow to the team and how it functions if one of them wasn't around for ever reason. And I choose Leonardo and Donatello because there absence would definately have a big affect on the team.



I would have to disagree, Raphael is very important to the team and contributes to how it functions. This last past season he has grown and has proven that he can reign in his temper and stay reletively cool headed in a chaotic situation and even briefly take up the reigns of leadership if he had to. The episode where Karai destroys the lair proves this. He is also as of late not as sulky or immature as he was in the start of the series, and no longer goes off in a huff as much like he once did. That is allot of progrssion on his character I think. He is very important to the team, perhaps not to the degree as Don or Leo, but he at least is contributes a bit more skills than Mikey, at this point. So I have to say, as far as right now, Raphs absence from the team would hold a bigger impact to the team dynamic that Mikey's absence would.

Oh and Raphael is not dumb. :)

Raph could never take up the reigns of leadership. Donny would be the better choice before Raph. And let me remind ya that Mikey defeated Raph in the casey Jones episode and the Battle Nexus episode.

[Sliced]

I'll just say like everybody. Leo and don. Both saved the turtles ALOT of times. When technologies are in the fight, Don just always know what to do wich is sometimes bit weird... and I insist on always know rarely have we seen don caught up not knowing what was going on and how to destroy it. Wich in my opinion is bit too smart. But its true that he is a little genius.

As for leo, well we all know and saw what he was able to do. When there are no technologies, he's the leader and he organize the turtles. Even if there are technologies involved, he will come up with a plan and all.

So all that to say that they are the ''most important'' turtles.

But like I said, kill one, kill'em all.

[Jester]

I would have to disagree, Raphael is very important to the team and contributes to how it functions. This last past season he has grown and has proven that he can reign in his temper and stay reletively cool headed in a chaotic situation and even briefly take up the reigns of leadership if he had to. The episode where Karai destroys the lair proves this. He is also as of late not as sulky or immature as he was in the start of the series, and no longer goes off in a huff as much like he once did. That is allot of progrssion on his character I think. He is very important to the team, perhaps not to the degree as Don or Leo, but he at least is contributes a bit more skills than Mikey, at this point. So I have to say, as far as right now, Raphs absence from the team would hold a bigger impact to the team dynamic that Mikey's absence would.

Oh and Raphael is not dumb. :)

Amen. Raph's always the turtle who has the other turtles backs. When a turtle is being snuck up upon, Raph's always there to scream "Look out!" or "Behind you!" then jumping to the rescue. No turtle is an island, and none of them is non-essential. They all play a part. Like the old toon said, "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines." Raphael is a hot head with a heart of gold, who's always there to help a brother out. Michelangelo is a "party dude" and the life of the team. Now there's a group of fan-fics or episodes..."What would the team do without..." We have "Same as it Never Was" so we know how the team fairs with out the Brain, but what about without the Leader, or without the Heart, or without the Muscle?

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

As far as taking over for leadership, yeah, Don would probably be the best choice. Mike probably couldn't lead just because he doesn't have that type of personality or mentality.

Don't underestimate Raph, though. If he did some serious growing up, he might be a good leader. Mike beat him in those two episodes because he really got Raph's goat (and because he knew Raph's weaknesses so well). In a battle situation, Raph is a little bit stronger than Mikey. Plus, he's interested in the same things as Leo, so while he could never totally fill in (because he's never really commanded the others' respect the way Leo automatically can), if he absolutely had to, he might do a decent job.

Probably if Leo left the team, the other three would all realize they needed to grow up, and they'd each step up and contribute a little more to the team.

This is all very funny cuz I just watched that episode of the OS yesterday where each turtle takes turns leading when Leo quits.


Oh! Btw, welcome back, Space Lieutenant Josh! It's been so long since I've seen you here!

It's great to see you too, Ryona!

---Josh

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

i agree that all 4 is essential in their own way.
saying that, if i had to choose...i would say Mikey. I think what would wreak the team more is the emotional pain, not the physical. they all think of mikey as their baby brother and their heart, so how u think it'd be when baby bro is gone and the heart is taken out?

[iris]

As far as taking over for leadership, yeah, Don would probably be the best choice. Mike probably couldn't lead just because he doesn't have that type of personality or mentality.

Don't underestimate Raph, though. If he did some serious growing up, he might be a good leader. Mike beat him in those two episodes because he really got Raph's goat (and because he knew Raph's weaknesses so well). In a battle situation, Raph is a little bit stronger than Mikey. Plus, he's interested in the same things as Leo, so while he could never totally fill in (because he's never really commanded the others' respect the way Leo automatically can), if he absolutely had to, he might do a decent job.

Probably if Leo left the team, the other three would all realize they needed to grow up, and they'd each step up and contribute a little more to the team.
Don has no desire to lead. He is capable, yes, but he really doesn't want it. He steps up when he feels he's the only one for the job. He would defer to any of his brothers before taking the reins. I think that, apart from Leo, Raph would make the best leader. He would rely on Don's calculating talents more than Leo (who has his own), but he has a fierce protective streak and is willing to take action when needed. Impulsiveness is a major thing to contend with, but I think Raph knows that. ;) Mikey is not leadership material, and I don't think I want him to be.

Oh, but the question of whose death would have the most impact... that is difficult to say, because I think they all contribute in a major way. I will guess... in the short-term: Leo, in the mid-term: Don, and in the long-term: Mikey. Raph, as always, is a wildcard.

[Sakirules]

mikey beat Raph because he was the better fighter plain and simple. Weather Mikey knew a weakness or not. And I still do not see raph as a leader ever.

[Sewer Bull]

My oh my, ain't we a little Raph hater? :roll:

[KROW]

mikey beat Raph because he was the better fighter plain and simple. Weather Mikey knew a weakness or not. And I still do not see raph as a leader ever.
I suggest we stray from "better fighter" theories, here. It never ends well.

As far as Raph as leader, I can see it happening. He takes charge almost all the time, whether he has a plan of action or not. He wings it, plans it as he goes. Not the best strategy, true, but sometimes spontaneity can be an asset.

[InsaneZane]

Even though Leonardo always has, still is and always will be my favorite Turtle.
I have to admit to Donnie's importance on this one,
Anyone else besides him, the Turtles, i think could "wing-it"
,but Donnie takes care of the turtles' security, transportation... etc.
His loss would definatly have the biggest impact on the team as a whole in the long run... even though if one of the other turtles were gone they would have certain problems here and there.
Donnie would really be the one who affects them the longest.

[KROW]

Even though Leonardo always has, still is and always will be my favorite Turtle.
I have to admit to Donnie's importance on this one,
Anyone else besides him, the Turtles, i think could "wing-it"
,but Donnie takes care of the turtles' security, transportation... etc.
His loss would definatly have the biggest impact on the team as a whole in the long run... even though if one of the other turtles were gone they would have certain problems here and there.
Donnie would really be the one who affects them the longest.
I see what you're saying, but I think that April would be able to fill that void, somewhat. Then there's Honeycutt and the Utroms. Of course I'm talking about the Mirage universe, since this forum is the General section.

Technology, security, and transportation are superficial things that can be replaced. I think the biggest loss if Donnie were to die would be his level-headed personality. He's the buffer zone of the four, quelling fires and causing the rest to step back and take a breather. If he was suddenly cut out of the picture, there would be a lot more tension and less cohesiveness within the group.

[InsaneZane]

valid statement, my man!

[Sakirules]

I suggest we stray from "better fighter" theories, here. It never ends well.

As far as Raph as leader, I can see it happening. He takes charge almost all the time, whether he has a plan of action or not. He wings it, plans it as he goes. Not the best strategy, true, but sometimes spontaneity can be an asset.

Ok I'll stray from better fighting skills but nothing will convince me that raph is a capable leader.

[KROW]

Fair enough. Whom do you think would be more apt to lead if Leonardo was suddenly slain?

[Ryona]

Here's what I think...

Don to me is the one who has the weakest warrior spirit out of all of them. If his warrior spirit rised and he decided to take the role, I believe he'd make a good leader.

Raph has alot of issues and problems such as rashness, temper, and lack of mental skills that would make him a very poor leader. If Raph had these issues resolved, I also think he'd make a good leader.

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

Here's a thought:
Would Mikey be able to lead out of pure enthusiasm? I mean, in a Tom Sawyer-esque sort of way...

It's worth a thought.

I mean, yeah, nobody would take him seriously, but...

I dunno, it was worth a thought.

---Josh

[Lady Venus]

I think Leo's death would be the biggest impacted on the guys and Master Splinter's life. Without the Leo around the guys would go crazy.

[Sakirules]

If Raph had these issues resolved, I also think he'd make a good leader.
But its impossible for someone like him to get it resolved.

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

But its impossible for someone like him to get it resolved.

He probably has it in him but is afraid to do what he has to in order to resolve his problems. It's always that one big hurdle.

I don't see how anyone could be a Raph-hater... he's definately far and away the most universally identifiable turtle. Everyone must have those feelings of not fitting in, wishing they were the best, dealing with anger, etc.

What a great character, really.

---Josh

[Sage Ninja]

what is with all the Raphael haters? I admit that out of the four TMNT, Raph isn't very popular with me but I still reconise his merits and potentical. I think he bears a strong impact on the team dynamic, and his spontaniuosness and quick reactions skills brings something to the team. Some situations really don't call for technological prowess, or martical stratgems, but but quick on your feet thinking and action, which Raphael is good for.

It depresses me to admit this, since I am a Mikey fan, but he really doesn't bring much to the the team that is overly essentical to its opreations. He really just a soldier that takes orders, (except in extremely rare occasions) In fact all he really has is his charisma and humour and that doesn't hold any weight in the team. In fact i've noticed its rarely appriciated among the turtles in a battle situation. So yeah, Mikey's absence from the team wouldn't cripple the team in any way, because he doesn't contribute as much as the others.

[Ryona]

I think the reason why Raph isn't very likable is that he's just plain irritable. Doesn't mean that he's worthless trash. I infact really like Raph from the original series. He's very cool and pretty mature with his behavior in that version. The Raphs of most other versions just need to wise up and and grow up. That's it.
Raph in general is a great character dispite his shortcomings. They're all great characters.

And as for Mikey. We really can't sell him short. Sure, like Raph, Mikey has alot of maturing to do, but he's still a pretty good asset to the team. Next to Leo, Mikey has the most potential in the team. He's clearly athleticly gifted. I know it takes more than athletics to be a great fighter, but give Mikey time and he'll develope into something so amazing that he can actually rival with the likes of Leo, Splinter, and Shredder.

[Sage Ninja]

I think the reason why Raph isn't very likable is that he's just plain irritable. Doesn't mean that he's worthless trash. I infact really like Raph from the original series. He's very cool and pretty mature with his behavior in that version. The Raphs of most other versions just need to wise up and and grow up. That's it.
Raph in general is a great character dispite his shortcomings. They're all great characters.

I like Raphael from the orginal series too, although I disagree with your assumtipn that he was mature in that medioum:o In fact there where times where old toon Raphael could be irrtiable as well. Although I have to say that the description of Raphael in the newer series being iritable, doesn't really apply any more, I mean He'll always have anger issues but he has certainly grown up this season

for Mikey. We really can't sell him short. Sure, like Raph, Mikey has alot of maturing to do, but he's still a pretty good asset to the team. Next to Leo, Mikey has the most potential in the team. He's clearly athleticly gifted. I know it takes more than athletics to be a great fighter, but give Mikey time and he'll develope into something so amazing that he can actually rival with the likes of Leo, Splinter, and Shredder.

I'm well aware of Mikey's potentical in the warrior arts and his athlectism, the point is he doesn't do anything with it! All the other turtles seem to have developed a defineing niche that makes them an assest to the team dynamic, Don has his technilogiacl knowledge, Leonardo his formidable ninja skills and stragem ablitlites,and Raphael (for lack of a better term) gets the ball rolling when the others might just stand around try to figure things out...Mikey is what, fast and funny :-? You see how hes kinda under developed in that area? He doesn't really have a defining niche that contributes to the team. Now is he just lazy or is he taking his brothers abilties for granted?

[Sakirules]

No hatin'. Just being honest
He probably has it in him but is afraid to do what he has to in order to resolve his problems. It's always that one big hurdle.

I highly Doubt it.

[Spitfire]

I think Don's death would effect them most. Since without him they wouldn't be able to work their way out of 90% of the jams they get themselves into.

[Ryona]

I think Don's death would effect them most. Since without him they wouldn't be able to work their way out of 90% of the jams they get themselves into.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, Don gets them out of alot of jams, but I doubt it's by 90% of the times. ...though that may end up being very acurate during Fast Forward since they'll be in the future where everything has technologicly advanced.

[innocent-rebel]

I voted Raph. *looks around*...i feel alone.

I know that all of them are important and that losing any one of them would definately hurt something somewhere on the team, but i personally think that Raph would have the biggest impact on the team, not just because of strenght, but also because of the emotion.

Theres so many unanswered questions with Raph that they might ask, like "Did he really want to be here?" "What could be done different so he would open up more?" "What really made him so angry?" and so on, just awhole bunch of unanswered questions that if he died would never be answered. This along with all the other grief of losing a brother/son/friend, there'd be guilt, as in was there something that could have been done differently, could very well divide the groups attention from things at hand, making them more weak, and vulnerable to enemies, not to mention Leo would probably lose it and go searching for vengence for his brother, Don would probably become just as angry, secluded and then through anger and guilt his pacific nature would diminish *referr to SAINW when he saw mikey go down, then definately went vendetta fueled on the shredders butt* and Mikey to become hardened *refer also to SAINW where we can see how he reacts to losing a brother* and then more than likely become just as angry and want revenge like his brothers.

Not to mention Master Splinter. who i think would be asking alot of questions and his attention would be diverted from his other sons, not noticing how they had begun to fall apart as well, until it was to late.

....uhhh, well this is just my two cents on the thing.

[Ryona]

Ehh... I'd still have to dissagree. Both Leo and Don would leave the biggest impact on the team if they died or otherwise disappeared as so many people here have pointed out. You're just talking about the tragedy of losing a brother. And while the others would be very upset over it, the same can be said for anyone of their deaths. Now as for the importance, reliance, and usefulness to the team's dynamic, both Raph and Mikey don't hold nearly as much weight as Leo and Don.

If we look at this as a game of Chess, both Leo and Don hold the importance of the King, and the abilities of the Queen. Raph and Mikey are the other pieces on the board. Raph and Mikey are kinda expendable; But as Soon as Leo and Don are gone, it's game over.

[Spitfire]

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, Don gets them out of alot of jams, but I doubt it's by 90% of the times. ...though that may end up being very acurate during Fast Forward since they'll be in the future where everything has technologicly advanced.
If I were to base this on the Old Toon then every episode Don pretty much saves them. The new toon not so often. And if it's from the Mirage comics I'd say it really doesn't matter which one died they all function fine on their own. We have all seen that now.

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

I feel like as soon as there are only three turtles, no matter who it is who's gone, the whole ship sinks. Once everyone realizes it's permanent, that's it.

Of course, they'd rise back up slightly after the initial downfall, but it wouldn't be the same. Just like losing a family member-- after all, that's what it would be.

They're all equally important as individuals, and the loss of one would act as a mistake for them all to learn from.

If Leo left, the other three would all mature to fill the void.
If Raph left, the other three would become more aggressive and proactive.
If Don left, while the other three wouldn't be able to replace his technological smarts, they would still probably become more focused on organization and be more level-headed.
If Mikey left, the others would still have to lighten the mood every once in a while-- in that respect, Mike would be the hardest void to fill just because when one brother dies, it's gonna be very hard to make a joke (especially if it's Mike-- how ironic).

I maintain they're all equal in importance and their deaths would be equal in impact.

---Josh

[slkblaze]

Heh, I'm going to refuse to answer this question.

OMG, if they kill off a turtle in the new movie I'm going to scream! In the theater! I don't care if it's to be "dramatic" or anything, they cannot do that to the turtles! I think that the death of any of the turtles would have a big impact and it's really hard to judge who would have the so-called "biggest" impact. I think that they would all have different effects, but the magnitude of the impact of one of the brothers' deaths would all be equal. They would just have to compensate in different way.

Darn... I guess I sort of answered the questions anway.

[Sage Ninja]

Now as for the importance, reliance, and usefulness to the team's dynamic, both Raph and Mikey don't hold nearly as much weight as Leo and Don.

If we look at this as a game of Chess, both Leo and Don hold the importance of the King, and the abilities of the Queen. Raph and Mikey are the other pieces on the board. Raph and Mikey are kinda expendable; But as Soon as Leo and Don are gone, it's game over.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I was getting at, I'm not talking about death here, just which turtle holds the most usefullness and importance to the team, and how screwed the others would be with that turtles absence. And your right if you look at the TMNT's team dynamic as a chess game Leonardo and Donatello are king and Queen and Michaelangelo and Raphael are pawns.

However I think both Raphael and Michaelangelo have potentcial to rise up and become more useful, especially Raphael. Raphael doesn't seem as distracted as Michaelangelo and seems more focused on the whole ninja gig, he also has an aggresive, go-getter nature thant I think will take him far. He is like Leonardo is that sence, he just lacks leoanrdo disiplign. In Michaelangelo case I think his priorities are just different he is not as passinate about the whole ninja thing except for when it might bring him admiration; he also has a much more passive nature than the Raphael and doesn't seem to ambitious.

[trexmaster]

Either Leonardo or Donatello. Leonardo does keep the team in line, but Donatello's resourcefulness and machinery aids the Turtles in precarious situations.

Michelangelo's death would make less of an impact, but he does help boost the team's morale with his optimistic and cheerful attitude. Raph's death would have the least impact, for he doesn't perform any role that Leo couldn't fill in.

Of course, as others have said, remove any Turtle, and the gang suffers.

[iris]

I think each turtle is very special and important to all the others. Those of you who say Raphael is "less loved" because of how he acts... are wrong. I love my hotheaded bro. (Tho he's older now, and calmer.)

I think they are all strong enough not to simply fall apart should one of them die. They're all pretty strong inside.


ETA: Man, have I been watching too much Mr. Rogers, or what? :)

[Sage Ninja]

Michelangelo's death would make less of an impact, but he does help boost the team's morale with his optimistic and cheerful attitude. Raph's death would have the least impact, for he doesn't perform any role that Leo couldn't fill in.

Of course, as others have said, remove any Turtle, and the gang suffers.

True if the any turtle was removed permittedly in the form of death it would devistate the family. I think Mikey's only realm of over-all influnece is the family dynamic. His absence would impact more strongly day to day life not so much the team. I guess what you say about his role being morale is true, only that (in the new series at least) the turtles seem to be more annoyed by him and his antics than anything else (which is just a personal gripe of mine).

I just wish he would be come less lazy and assert his talents alittle more than what he does. I've noticed thatb Raphael in the current series is asserting himself more and I like that. I think in terms of growth Raphel has come along way from the first season.

[kata]

I guess I'm one of the weirdos because I think it would be Michelangelo. He keeps morale up with his jokes and stuff. It's been demonstrated over and over in history the role that morale plays in wars and various other struggles. Morale or lack thereof has been the deciding factor in countless battles.

[trexmaster]

I guess I'm one of the weirdos because I think it would be Michelangelo. He keeps morale up with his jokes and stuff. It's been demonstrated over and over in history the role that morale plays in wars and various other struggles. Morale or lack thereof has been the deciding factor in countless battles.

In the new show, the TMNT act mildly annoyed with his jokes (not that I find him annoying; I can't understand why his rather mild material would piss anyone off). I have read comments from people describing him as "the nice turtle", and that may hold true in the sense of providing moral or emotional support.

[kata]

*nods* I can see how the non stop joking can get on one's nerves after a while. I find Raph's continuous running commentary in the old toon to be grating after a while. Everything in moderation kinda thing.

[Sage Ninja]

*nods* I can see how the non stop joking can get on one's nerves after a while. I find Raph's continuous running commentary in the old toon to be grating after a while. Everything in moderation kinda thing.

What do you mean old toon Raphael's "continuous running commentary" :-? ? I don't remeber Raphael ever stepping out of the scene and narrating. He just made snide remarks about every thing, usually very insightful observations that pointed out what a dumb-ass someone was being. I loved it!

In the new show, the TMNT act mildly annoyed with his jokes (not that I find him annoying; I can't understand why his rather mild material would piss anyone off).

To be completely honest I think they try a little to hard to make new toon Michaelangelo the witty turtle, basically they tried to make him the modern version of classic toon Raphael, and they can't seem to cut it. One thing that offends me about the new toon is that they often take unfair liberities with Michaelangelo's character and write him doing and saying some of the most stupid things, which doesn't come off as funny and just makes him look like an ass :x .

I sometimes watch some episodes and I wonder at how the writters think some the things they have Mikey doing is funny :ohwell: they must be aware that they are only making him look and act foolish instead of funny, because they write the turtles reactions as being at best unamused and at worst emmbarressed by him. It wouldn't bother me so much if the turtles didn't mildly disgusted by him, but they do so I find it painful sometimes. Although I have to say that the writters as of late have gotten better at this, and don't seem to sacrifice his character as much for the sake of a laugh as much as they did.

[kata]

He just made snide remarks about every thing, ...

Exactly what I'm talking about. Personally I find it annoying after a while.

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

What do you mean old toon Raphael's "continuous running commentary" :-? ? I don't remeber Raphael ever stepping out of the scene and narrating. He just made snide remarks about every thing, usually very insightful observations that pointed out what a dumb-ass someone was being. I loved it!



To be completely honest I think they try a little to hard to make new toon Michaelangelo the witty turtle, basically they tried to make him the modern version of classic toon Raphael, and they can't seem to cut it. One thing that offends me about the new toon is that they often take unfair liberities with Michaelangelo's character and write him doing and saying some of the most stupid things, which doesn't come off as funny and just makes him look like an ass :x .

I sometimes watch some episodes and I wonder at how the writters think some the things they have Mikey doing is funny :ohwell: they must be aware that they are only making him look and act foolish instead of funny, because they write the turtles reactions as being at best unamused and at worst emmbarressed by him. It wouldn't bother me so much if the turtles didn't mildly disgusted by him, but they do so I find it painful sometimes. Although I have to say that the writters as of late have gotten better at this, and don't seem to sacrifice his character as much for the sake of a laugh as much as they did.

Keep in mind that new toon Mikey is a teenager... that's the main reasoning for him acting like one. He's immature, he's a comic geek, and he likes to quote Star Trek. It happens with all kinds of kids, which makes him totally believable as a character, which I think is refreshing. It's a totally different style of humor than old toon Raph's sarcasm, though.

[Sage Ninja]

Keep in mind that new toon Mikey is a teenager... that's the main reasoning for him acting like one. He's immature, he's a comic geek, and he likes to quote Star Trek. It happens with all kinds of kids, which makes him totally believable as a character, which I think is refreshing. It's a totally different style of humor than old toon Raph's sarcasm, though.

Oh, I know that. I like New toon Michaelangelo's cute teenager persoanalty, like his love for comics and him wanting to be a super hero, adorable :D . I just don't like when they have made him overly cowardly or have him do stupid things like his cowardice from Notes from the under Ground and his behavior from Junklantis where he was doinf everything to crack a one liner :sick:.

Also I don't want to see him to fall into the catergory of "just comic relief" because there is more to his character than that...and as of recently I think the writters have started to relise that.

[tmnt_girl]

Venus was a bad idea IMO. 4 Turtles is perfect.
i think in the next mutation venus fits perfectly, but in the current cartn and the movies i think four turtles is perfect

[Buslady]

mikey beat Raph because he was the better fighter plain and simple. Weather Mikey knew a weakness or not. And I still do not see raph as a leader ever.

Oh well, guess what Raph was temporary leader while Leo was off with Sensei Fartso...so he did his best to fulfill that position; he's not perfect, he's never really been in that position before, he did what he could.
Let's see YOU be shoved into the 'leader' positions and bring your family out alive after a big fat fight.

You make Raph sound likea complete moron. No, the fool is Mike. He does nothing but fool around, play games, act like a dork, he has no function in the team other than comic relief. Who's often working out? Raph and Leo. Mike? Playing games doing nothing. He is nearly worthless.

So, come on...let's get some Raph vs. Mike going...come on, I'll defend Raph as long as I live. Fictional character? yeah, so what.

[Sage Ninja]

OMG, I am a Michaelangelo fan but I have to say that Buslady is right. That is kind of the point I was making in my earler post that Michaelangelo isn't as important to the team because he isn't pulling his weight. Even I a Michaelangelo fan can admit that. Not that he doesn't have his merits, but the point is he doesn't utilise them half the time.

And I don't know why there are so many Mikey fans taking cheap shots a Raphael's character. Is it because Raphael in the new toon smacks Mikey sometimes? I don't get it. But really it needs to stop! the only thing you Michaelangelo fans are doing is making yourselves look ignorant. It really discredits the rest of the Michaelangelo fans. So nock it off already :evil:

[Sakirules]

Oh well, guess what Raph was temporary leader while Leo was off with Sensei Fartso...so he did his best to fulfill that position; he's not perfect, he's never really been in that position before, he did what he could.
Let's see YOU be shoved into the 'leader' positions and bring your family out alive after a big fat fight.

You make Raph sound likea complete moron. No, the fool is Mike. He does nothing but fool around, play games, act like a dork, he has no function in the team other than comic relief. Who's often working out? Raph and Leo. Mike? Playing games doing nothing. He is nearly worthless.

So, come on...let's get some Raph vs. Mike going...come on, I'll defend Raph as long as I live. Fictional character? yeah, so what.

yea Mike maybe a goof off but his skills as a fighter are much more superior than Raph's

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

yea Mike maybe a goof off but his skills as a fighter are much more superior than Raph's

Why fight about this? Why does it matter? It changes depending on which version of the Turtles you're talking about anyway. And Raph's never been stupid and he's never been of questionable character. He and Mikey's dynamic is just like Thing and the Human Torch-- they may have little squabbles all the time but they'd die for one another.

[Coola Yagami]

Raph is more skilled and stronger than Mike...

But noone knows to take advantage of Raph's sloppiness when he loses his temper better than Mikey.

[Jester]

Exactly. Raphael trains harder and has worked more to try to be a decent fighter. The only brother who puts more into training is Leonardo. But, where Raph trains to be a better fighter, Mikey knows his brother and he used the fact that Raph gets sloppy when he gets angry to his advantage. Raph played into his hands. If it were a purely skill based contest Raph would skunk Mikey, Mikey won because he knew his brother's weakness and exploited it to his advantage.

[Space Lieutenant Josh]

Mike also is known for his natural ability-- but then, natural ability without discipline is nothing to brag about. Raph has disciplined himself and strives toward something other than merely looking cool.

[Sage Ninja]

Exactly. Raphael trains harder and has worked more to try to be a decent fighter. The only brother who puts more into training is Leonardo.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Raphael is more skilled than Michaelangelo, I think Raphael and Michaealngelo are about equally skilled. And honestly i don't buy into this "Michaelangelo has much natural natural abilty that, thats the reason he is able to stay a float", crap.

You can't survive on sheer natural abilty alone. I think Michaelangelo mandatority practices his katas just as much as the rest of the turtles because splinter makes them. I mean think about it, how much free time do you think the turtles have; Splinter probably has them doing some form of training all day long with only brief one or two hour spells of time to their selves. So no, I don't think that Raphael trains harder than Mikey while in his free time, they just have sepret interests. Mikey his comics and games, and Rapahel his punch bag and mortor cycles. The reason people make a stink about Mikey's hobbies is because it isn't pro-active enough like Don's and Raph's.

If it were a purely skill based contest Raph would skunk Mikey. Mikey won because he knew his brother's weakness and exploited it to his advantage.

I would like to point out that Mikey and Raph have different persoanalities and tempermants. Mikey is definatly skilled and strong but isn't as aggresive or confident as Raphael, and I'm telling you your spirit plays a big role on how you do things and succeed at them. Yes as it stands right now Raph would take Mikey out, but if Michaelangelo would just get over his attention getting issues and fight seriuosly for once (and get over his fear) he'd be a deadly fighter.

[Sakirules]

Raph is more skilled and stronger than Mike...

But noone knows to take advantage of Raph's sloppiness when he loses his temper better than Mikey.

All the turtles are equally stronger. and did you say skillful? Man did you see dem episodes where they fought? Mikey beat his lard behind.

[Sakirules]

Why fight about this? Why does it matter? It changes depending on which version of the Turtles you're talking about anyway. And Raph's never been stupid and he's never been of questionable character. He and Mikey's dynamic is just like Thing and the Human Torch-- they may have little squabbles all the time but they'd die for one another.
Cuz he came at me. plaiun and simple. Like he wanted war.

[Jester]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Raphael is more skilled than Michaelangelo, I think Raphael and Michaealngelo are about equally skilled. And honestly i don't buy into this "Michaelangelo has much natural natural abilty that, thats the reason he is able to stay a float", crap.

You can't survive on sheer natural abilty alone. I think Michaelangelo mandatority practices his katas just as much as the rest of the turtles because splinter makes them. I mean think about it, how much free time do you think the turtles have; Splinter probably has them doing some form of training all day long with only brief one or two hour spells of time to their selves. So no, I don't think that Raphael trains harder than Mikey while in his free time, they just have sepret interests. Mikey his comics and games, and Rapahel his punch bag and mortor cycles. The reason people make a stink about Mikey's hobbies is because it isn't pro-active enough like Don's and Raph's.



I would like to point out that Mikey and Raph have different persoanalities and tempermants. Mikey is definatly skilled and strong but isn't as aggresive or confident as Raphael, and I'm telling you your spirit plays a big role on how you do things and succeed at them. Yes as it stands right now Raph would take Mikey out, but if Michaelangelo would just get over his attention getting issues and fight seriuosly for once (and get over his fear) he'd be a deadly fighter.
That I agree with, if Mikey would focus and not just showboat, he'd be great. But that's his weakness, like Raph's temper and Donnie's psudo-over reliance on his brain and inventions.

[Sage Ninja]

That I agree with, if Mikey would focus and not just showboat, he'd be great. But that's his weakness, like Raph's temper and Donnie's psudo-over reliance on his brain and inventions.

hey, you make a pretty good point about the boys weaknesses. Mikey's lack of focus and desire to show off hinders him, Raph's temper hinders him, and Donny's reliance on machines hinders him. All these things seem to stop the boys from realising their true potential as warriors.

Oddly enough I think Leonardo is the only one that doesn't suffer from any kind of weakness that holds him back from maturing mentally as a warrior. Except the fact that he may take on more responciablity than he can handle...but that didn't hinder him so much as a warrior (because it made him more ruthless) it just hindered him as a person.

With everything in consideration Leonardo seems to be the only turtle with out any serious weakness that stops him as a warrior and has the purest focus of the four. I guess that is why i feel he holds the biggest influence on the team.

[Gokhan]

ryona where di du get those tmnt stats i need/ want em to lol

[Timmetry]

When I saw this question, I thought more about the impact on the family, not the team. Leonardo is the older brother that leads everybody and keeps them all in line. Donatello is the creator that makes the living comfortable for the turtles. Raphael is the brash and brooding one, the one everyone loves, but doesn't contribute (emotionally) significantly. And then there's Micealangelo. He is the inoccence of the family. I think if he were to die, the happiness of the entire family would die, leading to battles driven soley on rage. Raph and Leo would prolly get into it, causing one or the other to leave, and Don would become a recluse, constantly tinkering on something.

Actually, I think the episode where Don was sent into the future would be more believable if it was Mike that was sent. Not saying it didn't work, it would just of work a little better.

Also, Leo's weakness as a warrior is his family. If one of the turtles are about to be killed, he will lay down his sword in order to save them. You saw it happen in the first movie.

[Vaderman]

I voted for Raphael. He always appeared to be the one with the most problems out of all of them. His death would come as a means of possible failure for the other turtles, believing perhaps that they had failed in helping his emotional turmoils.

All in all, I'd say that the death in any turtle would result in a crumpling in the whole gang.

[Draconic]

Raphael is definitely the man-- err, turtle.

1: In TMNT 1, he left for a while, and in the meantime, the other 3 turtles got smashed. Also, they sent say, 20 foot soldiers after Raph while he was on the roof. They went after him so they wouldn't have to deal with him and the other 3 at the same time.

2: Leonardo was so devastated, he turned into a pansy for a day when Raph went into a coma. That's devastating. Hey! He wants some food! Bring him some food! You're gonna be okay, Raph, you're gonna be okay.

3: ^To which Raph responded, "Get a grip, Leo" because Raphael is strongly grounded in the real world, and Leo's grip on reality is easily distorted. Also, raph single-handedly took out more foot soldiers than the turtles in the first movie. If it weren't for him, there would be a lot more ciminals.

4. Raphael is a pirate, and a robot.

5. Raphael stays true to his colors-- he is the turtle with the most integrity: He never once changed the color of his bandana.

6. Red is not purple.

7. Raphael is statistically more favored than any other turtle, excluding Leonardo. Also, he isn't liked for the sole purpose of being "The leader," like people who liked the White Ranger because he was the leader, but because Raphael is genuinely cool.

8. Venus thought Raphael was hot. This is a little-known fact, but it's absoultely 100% documented fact, meaning that Raph is 100% sexier than his brothers. Also, girls like Raphael too -- nobody goes by the name "Leo's Chick" on this board, or "Mikey's Dudette" etc.

9. Leo got pwned by Shredder

10. Casey Jones likes Raph more. Also, Raphael looks good in a fedora hat, and likes to watch movies. He has a good sense of justice, and is deeply emotionally connected with his brothers and splinter. The end. Oh yea, Raph is good with kids.

[Sage Ninja]

When I saw this question, I thought more about the impact on the family, not the team. Leonardo is the older brother that leads everybody and keeps them all in line. Donatello is the creator that makes the living comfortable for the turtles. Raphael is the brash and brooding one, the one everyone loves, but doesn't contribute (emotionally) significantly. And then there's Micealangelo. He is the inoccence of the family. I think if he were to die, the happiness of the entire family would die, leading to battles driven soley on rage. Raph and Leo would prolly get into it, causing one or the other to leave, and Don would become a recluse, constantly tinkering on something.

I always thought that Mike's over all influnece was in the family dynamic rather than the team one. And your right i think he where gone, it would be a great blow the family. Which makes me wonder, what would happen if Michaelangelo ever got really angry at his family, and lost his innocence. What would their reaction be? I think out of all the turtles Michaelangelo is the turtles that probably doesn't angry over anthing. I wonder if they would know how to react to some thing like that.

[Draconic]

The family dynamic is actually that of an alcoholic's family:

The Abuser: Splinter - (Ninjitsu is the best drug... or saké)
The leader: Leonardo - Protects his siblings, takes responsibility
The Whiz Kid: Donatello - Tries to make the parents happy with their success
The Joker: Michaelangelo - Tries to make everybody happy through humor
The Wild Child: Raphael - Rebellious, angry, often turns to alcoholism (Ninjitsu)

I just noticed this, and find it hilarious

[Sage Ninja]

oh my gosh you are right! :lol: Good observations. In that same vein I think Leo and Don are the golden children that try to live up to Splinter approval and Raph and Mikey are the rebelious children.

Mikey-is rebelling against his strict ninjisu up-bringing by being a goof and class clown, and over all just acting out to get him self noticed.

Raph- Is rebelling by being anti social and hostile and nor being a team player and questioning authorty, And since he can't lash out directly at Splinter directs his hostility toward Leo.

[Draconic]

I wonder if anybody fits the "Lost Child" persona -- always deep in thought, thinking about fantasy, reads a lot.. reclusive?

[Sage Ninja]

wouldn't that be Donatello? He is easily the most intreverted of the four...but then Rapahel is maybe the most reclusive. You would think Raphael and Donatello would get along with one another.

In the Mirage comics who hangs out with who? Which pair of turtles do you normally see hanging out with each other when they have down time?

[Warhorse]

This would be a very sad scenario to ever happen in the TMNT universe. Saying good bye to one of the turtles? Unthinkable.

But if I was to use an objective view on who would have the biggest impact. It depends. Initially, I think Leonardo would have the biggest impact, but the kind of role he plays in the turtle's lives could be reconciled eventually. It would be tough, but I think they would find the courage to move on.

So, my answer to this question would be, ultimately, the biggest impact would eventually be Donatello. His level of knowledge and expertise in things that make the world go round in a better way would take years and years to master, and to truly love and understand the technical world. The other three would be like a deer caught in the headlights without him!

[Buslady]

Raph's death would be the biggest impact on me. But he's too damn ornery to be killed easy.

[Felix Tha Blunt]

I think all four would eventually make quite an impact.

Where would they be if Michaelangelo didn't make the moods a bit less-stressfull? would they be at eachothers throats?

What would happen if Donatello's knowledge of technology was suddenlly inept.

If Raphs bravery and loyalty were missing were would they be.. maybe not agressive enough?

and if Leo was missing.. it would be the backbone gone..

[Cure]

Raph's death would be the biggest impact on me.

I believe the original poster meant which would have the biggest impact in THIER universe...........

[Felix Tha Blunt]

I believe the original poster meant which would have the biggest impact in THIER universe...........

Do you even have to waste a post saying this? just ignore it.

[Buslady]

I believe the original poster meant which would have the biggest impact in THIER universe...........
I quote:

If they decided to kill off one of the turtles in the new 2007 CGI movie, which turtles' death do you think would have the biggest impact on the other turtles, Splinter, April, Casey, Usagi, all the TMNT fans, etc.?


I think I fall under the "tmnt fans" part....

If one turtle died, the team would fall apart IMO...

[NightwatchersOnlygirl]

I cry if Raphael got killed

[Radical Rat]

I think Mikey's death would have the biggest impact. He's like the little brother who they all feel protective towards. If he died they'd all be out for revenge on whoever killed him. Kinda reminds me of that film where the youngest brother in the family is killed and the other's are all devastated. Can't remember the name, Four Brothers, I think?

Some people on here were saying about Mike and Raph and about Raph hitting Mike? I gotta say I love their relationship the best out of them all. I can't remember the episode but there's one line where they think they're all goners and Raph says 'I'm gonna miss you guys' (or similar) and Mikey says 'Even me, Raph?'
Raph replies, 'Even you, Mikey. Especially you.'

[Sage Ninja]

I think Mikey's death would have the biggest impact. He's like the little brother who they all feel protective towards. If he died they'd all be out for revenge on whoever killed him. Kinda reminds me of that film where the youngest brother in the family is killed and the other's are all devastated. Can't remember the name, Four Brothers, I think?

yeah I think Mikey's death in particular would have a very violent impact on the turtles, cause they do seem to treat Michealangelo as though he where the younger brother. Which in a sence is sort of wierd since they are all insencially the same age.

Some people on here were saying about Mike and Raph and about Raph hitting Mike? I gotta say I love their relationship the best out of them all. I can't remember the episode but there's one line where they think they're all goners and Raph says 'I'm gonna miss you guys' (or similar) and Mikey says 'Even me, Raph?'
Raph replies, 'Even you, Mikey. Especially you.'

I've said this before but to be honest Mikey and Raph's brotherly relationship confuses the heck out of me. Maybe its because I don't have brothers of my own and don't know how brother act but i some times watch them and go WTF!? Half the time they don't act like they like each and some of their interactions make me cringe. Like the whole battle nexus champion thing was typical brotherly battering, but I was catching some under currents of geniuan animosity between them and it alianated me a bit. :o

[Sonic x 20]

I'll be very upset if something happened to any of the turtles. I also feel that each of them would have a big impact in their own way.

1.Leo:The leader of the group. If anything happened to Leo, then the turtles wouldn't have a leader to lead them into battle and one of them would have to take over and they all would have to continue on. They would also become more mature as well and would probably train more too.

2.The hot-head, the brute force of the group. If anything happened to Raph, then they would probably become just as angry as he is or maybe not as aggressive and they turtles wouldn't have anyone to pick a fight with here and there.

3.Donatello:The calm, braniac one of the group. If anything happened to Donny, then the turtles would have to do their best to fix everything around them, get out of traps, and would also probably do their best to become just as smart as Donny.

4.Michelangelo:The party animal, the comedian of the turtles. If anythind happened to Mikey, then the turtles would feel like they have lost a little brother that they were protective to and they would do there best to try to crack some jokes here and there. Also, it would be tough for them to brighten up the mood without Mikey being around as well.

Each of the turtles are very important to the group in their own and each of them would cause a different impact as well.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Michelangelo. The death of the most childish and naive one would probably be the greatest knock to the team and cause the TMNT to be a much darker place, like a loss of innocence kind of thing.

[lambofun]

Amen to that!

Death to all fifth turtles.

I thought the TMNT were going to die in TMNT 2: Secret of the Ooze when they were caught in that net but Splinter got out his bow and arrow and saved them.

If Venus was in this, she would go first. I have really just stayed away from her since it's been 4 turtles for SO long and then they put her in during the mid 90's with Next Mutantion.

BUT which turtle would have biggest impact, Leonardo BY FAR. He is the leader and without him, the series would suffer.

Mikey dying would be tramatic since he's my favorite turtle and he is there for laughs and giggles. That would go away

[Laurael]

I think each of them would be equally devastated if any one of them were to die. They all play a significant part to both the team and the family.
Can you just hear them when one of them gets close to being killed?
"Leo...NO!"
"Mikey...NO!"
"Raph...NO!
"Donny...NO!"
That being said...if I have to vote for one...it would be for Donatello for the impact to the team, though because none of them could ever replace his technical abilities no matter how hard they tried.

[Krutch]

I vote Mikey.

Personally, I think if Leo were to die, Raph would go into overdrive for a little bit but he'd come back and take over Leo's role as "leader". I think Leo's death would mature him alot, and he'd want to make his brother proud.

Donatello, while a valuable asset, I think is more of a comfort. He makes things easy on everyone, whether it be gadgets or techno troubles. Leo, Mike, and Raph could easily adapt to a home without new devices and such. If he were to pass, Leo would be there to make sure everyone holds together.

Raph, my personal favorite, I think would have the least effect. He's there to throw the sometimes needed first punch, but most of the time it'd leads the group to trouble anyways. I think Raph's death would cause Leo to become much more tempered(see the symetry there?).

As for Mikey, he's the innocence of the group. The one that keeps everyones spirits up. The only one who can keep things light in times of panic so you can think straight. Everyone loves him. If he were to pass, I think Leo would be too shock ridden to calm anyone down. I think Don and Raph would go nuts. Leo would go silent. And the team would fall apart.


Thats jus my two cents.;)

[triplexxx]

I think each of them would be equally devastated if any one of them were to die. They all play a significant part to both the team and the family.
I couldn't agree more. Remember when Leonardo said in "Grudge Match": "If one of us goes down, we all go down." This I believe only too well.
The fact is none of the turtles ever have been nor ever will be expendable. To disregard this would not only be an insult to some fans (no offense to fan art) but an insult to the entire TMNT franchise; which is why I so despised SAINW, and if I had my way would have cancelled it from the series.

[Sage Ninja]

that is a little harsh, Same as it Never was was a very good episode especially in the "what if" department, and I thought it was handled well. And yes I understand that what Leo said in Grudge Match was powerful about if one goes down they all go down, but realistically, given that they are warriors and put them selves in life and death situations all the time chances are its more likely that one of them might get killed rather than all of them at the same time.

And if that where to happen than some how I don't think the surviving turtles would through their lives away and doing some thing reckless just so that they could all die together. I just don't see them doing this especially since, in a sence they would be abandoning Splinter to be all by him self if they did that. I think like it or not the turtles would have to accept that given their life style the potentical of one of them rather than all of them not making it through a battle is pretty likely.

[heretic888]

ryona where di du get those tmnt stats i need/ want em to lol

Well, I'm not Ryona, but the only "official" TMNT stats I am aware of are from Palladium Books' TMNT & Other Strangeness. They are as follows:

RAPHAEL
Intelligence Quotient: 12
Mental Endurance: 13
Mental Affinity: 11
Physical Strength: 20
Physical Prowess: 18
Physical Endurance: 20
Physical Beauty: 5
Speed: 15

LEONARDO
Intelligence Quotient: 16
Mental Endurance: 16
Mental Affinity: 17
Physical Strength: 15
Physical Prowess: 20
Physical Endurance: 18
Physical Beauty: 11
Speed: 11

DONATELLO
Intelligence Quotient: 19
Mental Endurance: 15
Mental Affinity: 12
Physical Strength: 13
Physical Prowess: 17
Physical Endurance: 13
Physical Beauty: 9
Speed: 10

MICHELANGELO
Intelligence Quotient: 11
Mental Endurance: 14
Mental Affinity: 19
Physical Strength: 16
Physical Prowess: 24
Physical Endurance: 17
Physical Beauty: 16
Speed: 14

For scaling purposes, 9 to 11 is roughly "average" (i.e., an IQ of 10 is equivalent to a real IQ of 100), 12 to 15 is roughly "above average", 16 to 20 is considered "exceptional", and above 20 could be considered "amazing".

Laterz.

[Leonardo_]

Amen to that!

Death to all fifth turtles.


This is a bit overdone. All the fifth turtles here are only thinked out characters, made for fun. They doesn't count, because they are not and never will be in any of the toons. It's no subject. So why such agressive?!

Sorry, but such words begin to go on my nerves now. We are all adults, I thought. So why not acting like adults?!

Back to topic: It's really hard for me to choose between Don and Leo. They are both important for the team in their own ways.

[Sage Ninja]

Personaly I would really like to see a set-up where the turtles all think the the others are dead or some how are seperated, and they have to act and survive on their own with out the support of their other brothers. In the new season that is coming up in 2008 it appears the turtles are going to have to function with out Splinter guiding them. Maybe in a future season (season I think) maybe the show can have the turtles seperated like they are in volume 4 of the comics.

[triplexxx]

Personaly I would really like to see a set-up where the turtles all think the the others are dead or some how are seperated, and they have to act and survive on their own with out the support of their other brothers.What exactly happened a few episodes before the end of NT season 3?

[Sage Ninja]

what are you talking about?

[triplexxx]

Reality Check - Across the Universe - SAINW - Real World I & II

[Scandia]

Either Leonardo, because he's the leader and Splinter's favorite...

Or Donatello because he does all the machines and techno stuff and thus can arguably be the most useful Turtle.

[Ninjafromanotherseries]

Fan-wise I think Leonardos dead would made series lose fans.
I think Don or Raph could fill Leonardos leader role.
Mikeys dead would make TMNT much darker, well even if any of the turtles died things got darker but Mikeys probably most.
Raphs dead would just end up Leo becoming berserk.
Story-wise Donatellos dead would be huge lost and series might end very soon because Turtles didn´t know how to disarm a bomb. Or April could replace Don.

[Fang Wolf]

I Voted Leonardo -- The great leader!

[MoreCowbell5263]

I'd say Don, one reason being I'm a Don fan, and another reason being that it's easier (or less difficult, however you put it) to become the strongest or the best leader than it is to acquire the amount of knowledge that Don has.

Don or Raph or even Mike could be trained enough to be a great leader.

Pumping iron for half a year or so could get any turtle in the same shape Raph is in.

Mike's personality definitely helps, but the turtles would still be powerful.

Don's knowledge takes years and years of studying and natural giftedness.

I guess it depends on the definition of impact. Mike's absense would make the turtles darker. Raph's absence would make the turtles...I don't know, less risky? Leo's absence would cause a conflict with the others regarding the new leader. Don's absence would cripple the team by losing that kind of intelligence, assuming April doesn't become an "honorary fourth turtle" or some crap like that. I guess April could replace Don and Casey Jones could replace Raph. I'd say Don still.

[triplexxx]

I guess April could replace Don and Casey Jones could replace Raph.Except April and Casey are nowhere close to having the martial arts skills & field experience Donatello and Raphael have; so no, they couldn't compensate for their absence.

[Warhorse]

Wow, you people are still arguing about this?

I still say Donetello would have the biggest impact. not only is he the techno go to guy, but when Raph and Leo have their spats, Donny is good about keeping a level head while the two argue and hold grudges and brood for a while. And he keeps Mikey company while the two are in their fighting modes.

[MoreCowbell5263]

Not still arguing, the thread was just resurrected earlier today. I think it's an interesting thread, whenever someone asks a question like "Which Turtle Would..." it always seems to spark opinions on every turtle.

But yeah, Don, definitely, I'm surprised Mikey has more votes than Don does (not that Mike isn't important).

[twigs232]

While I voted for Leo since he's the leader I was debating Don.............I in fact believe the impact of either of those two would be about the same.

[triplexxx]

Regardless of opinion differences I still say, any turtle down = the team is either retired or "dead" in due time. Every turtle's an equal team member.

[Sage Ninja]

Regardless of opinion differences I still say, any turtle down = the team is either retired or "dead" in due time. Every turtle's an equal team member.

that's true but you could argue that each of the turtle's importance to the team gets taken advantage of or isn't aknowldeged by all the other turtles sometimes. Until something happens that they are reminded that they each have importance to the team.

I bet on a subconscience level that Leo and Don feel that their skills do more for the team than Raph and Mikey.

[Rooish]

I can't decide on any of them. Anyway, people are discussing this only in terms of the "team," when really they're a family as well. Overall, I think they would have major issues regardless of which Turtle died, but Leo's or Don's deaths might be more inconvenient for the team. If we're talking Mirage comics, Raph and Mike wouldn't be too far behind -- the Turtles' personalities were more similar in the comics and they were all strong contributors to the team. And I don't think that any of the Turtles would "lead" if Leo died, because it just wouldn't work ... but Don would be the most likely to issue commands that anyone would follow, in my opinion. Also, if both Don and Leo died, I don't really think that Raph would lead Mike.

As far as the family goes, Raph's or Mike's deaths would be pretty devastating. I have a feeling that Mike's death would be the most depressing overall (unless he's 2k3 Mike :roll: ). And, as someone mentioned before, there would be a lot of guilt and unanswered questions if Raph died. Of course Splinter would be the most dysfunctional if Leo died, so that might have a big impact.

In closing, I can't vote for any of them. But does anyone know if there is some sort of canonical "dying order"? Like, has any Turtle been shown in the comics to be the last one alive? Leo and Don both live until at least one hundred (from Tales of the TMNT), and Raph seems to be alive and kickin' in 2060.

On a completely unrelated note, I wish China would stop making poisonous toys.

[Sage Ninja]

wow, you read through all seven pages of this thread Roo? :o

I know this thread was geared toward "death" of the turtle but I think some where along the line it changed (since the contemplations of any of the turtles dying is to depressing) into which turtle holds the most impotance to the team and which turtle is more expendable, as in which turtles absence from the team would criple the team the most and which turtle's absence wouldn't affect the team all that much. Like if the turtles where players on a chess board or something.

I have a feeling that Mike's death would be the most depressing overall (unless he's 2k3 Mike

that's not nice ;) Even 2k3 Mikey death would cause some reaction. I'm pretty sure that if, while on night patrol, Mikey where to accidently fall off a bridge to his death, the others would notice maybe in five, maybe seven days tops, that he was not pestering every one and was missing :lol:

[Rooish]

wow, you read through all seven pages of this thread Roo? :o

Wait was that question serious because you're surprised I bothered to read the whole thing, or because my response indicated that I hadn't read the whole thing? ;) I actually did, but I guess I haven't been contributing much to it, so I just decided I'd answer the original question. But in terms of the team ... I don't think, like previous people :roll:, that Leo and Don both have the importance of the king and the abilities of the queen (in chess), whereas Raph and Mike have neither.

None of the Turtles is the "king." They could all keep going, albeit less efficiently, without one Turtle. I do think that the team would suffer the most without Leo, and Don second. I think Raph and Mike are about equally useful. Raph may do more damage to the enemies, but I think his mood swings do more damage to the team than Mike's slacking does.

If I were to use a detailed chess analogy (now you got me started), I guess I'd say that Leo is the queen, because he's the most well-rounded and good in skill, charisma, and smarts. Raph would be a rook, because they are limited by being difficult to use properly, but they cause massive freakin' damage. Mike would be a knight, because they are sort of random and flashy, and have crazy unexpected potential (like the ability to jump pieces on the chess board) but some shortfallings. Don would be ... well, the other powerful piece, the bishop. Because he strikes from the side, with his different way of thinking. And it's hard to notice him. In a cool way.

that's not nice ;) Even 2k3 Mikey death would cause some reaction. I'm pretty sure that if, while on night patrol, Mikey where to accidently fall off a bridge to his death, the others would notice maybe in five, maybe seven days tops, that he was not pestering every one and was missing :lol:

I know it would have some impact if 2k3 Mikey died. Just not the biggest impact out of his brothers. ;)

[Sage Ninja]

Wait was that question serious because you're surprised I bothered to read the whole thing, or because my response indicated that I hadn't read the whole thing? ;) I actually did, but I guess I haven't been contributing much to it, so I just decided I'd answer the original question.

ugh...Rooish, I love you girl, but you took what I said completely the wrong way. I wasn't suggesting that at all or that you hadn't been contributing, so I wasn't critisising. It was more a joke that this thread was so damn long and that any one would have the patients to read through the whole thing, was all I ment :| Also you seemed to do it pretty quickly :o


But in terms of the team ... I don't think, like previous people :roll:, that Leo and Don both have the importance of the king and the abilities of the queen (in chess), whereas Raph and Mike have neither.

None of the Turtles is the "king." They could all keep going, albeit less efficiently, without one Turtle. I do think that the team would suffer the most without Leo, and Don second. I think Raph and Mike are about equally useful. Raph may do more damage to the enemies, but I think his mood swings do more damage to the team than Mike's slacking does.

That does seem to be the general view that all the turtles are useful in their own speicial unique way, which makes sents, in order for a team to work you can't have to many leaders and some one has to be willing to follow for the sake of the mission instead of trying to advance your self for your own gains. I think that was part of the problem in between Raph and Leo in the new movie. However in the context of the new toon, I think the others tend to take for granted all the individual skills each turtle bring to the team to make it function. Example, every takes Leo's presence for granted some times and forgets he is human-er turtle, I think that is why they all seemed more annoyed with Leo's freak out in season four. They take Don for granted because his technilogical knowledge and inventions make things so convient for them they forget that with out him they would be really stuck, like during the mutation outbreak toward the end of season four. And they take Raph for granted because he is such a hot head they forget that some times he has does have some intution and forsight when it comes to situations and that they should listen to what he has to say but don't because Leo is more convient **coughCity at Warcough**. And they take Mikey for granted because they genrally think he is just a slacker and a screw-up and forget that even he helps things along. It would be nice if in the new season they all get an episiode where the the others learn not to take each other for granted.

If I were to use a detailed chess analogy (now you got me started), I guess I'd say that Leo is the queen, because he's the most well-rounded and good in skill, charisma, and smarts. Raph would be a rook, because they are limited by being difficult to use properly, but they cause massive freakin' damage. Mike would be a knight, because they are sort of random and flashy, and have crazy unexpected potential (like the ability to jump pieces on the chess board) but some shortfallings. Don would be ... well, the other powerful piece, the bishop. Because he strikes from the side, with his different way of thinking. And it's hard to notice him. In a cool way.

I love your take on things! I think these descriptions are more insightful and fair than the previous one. I also see that you are a fellow chess geek :D love ya!!

[shuriken]

Wait was that question serious because you're surprised I bothered to read the whole thing, or because my response indicated that I hadn't read the whole thing? ;) I actually did, but I guess I haven't been contributing much to it, so I just decided I'd answer the original question. But in terms of the team ... I don't think, like previous people :roll:, that Leo and Don both have the importance of the king and the abilities of the queen (in chess), whereas Raph and Mike have neither.

None of the Turtles is the "king." They could all keep going, albeit less efficiently, without one Turtle. I do think that the team would suffer the most without Leo, and Don second. I think Raph and Mike are about equally useful. Raph may do more damage to the enemies, but I think his mood swings do more damage to the team than Mike's slacking does.

If I were to use a detailed chess analogy (now you got me started), I guess I'd say that Leo is the queen, because he's the most well-rounded and good in skill, charisma, and smarts. Raph would be a rook, because they are limited by being difficult to use properly, but they cause massive freakin' damage. Mike would be a knight, because they are sort of random and flashy, and have crazy unexpected potential (like the ability to jump pieces on the chess board) but some shortfallings. Don would be ... well, the other powerful piece, the bishop. Because he strikes from the side, with his different way of thinking. And it's hard to notice him. In a cool way.



I know it would have some impact if 2k3 Mikey died. Just not the biggest impact out of his brothers. ;)

And Splinter would be the King Right? You know this got me thinking, is there any Chess bord that has the TMNT as the theme? with like Shredder and Krang as the king and queen or whatever? just wondering...
Anyways back on topic I think that as a team, Donnie's death would be the one that has most negative impact team-wise because he's not only the best with gadgets and stuff, but he's the one that keeps the others from getting on each other nerves.Leo may be the leader, but Donnie is like the glue of the team. He may not be the fastest strongest or most skilled, but he contributes a lot more than that. He helps the team have a clear head and not make stupid mistakes, he makes all those gizmos and machines that allowed for the turtles to not live like moles. If Leo died I think that it would have the most negative impact emotionally . I mean Splinter would be a total wreck, and the remaining three would HAVE to work together and console him, eventualy bringing everyone together. I think Raph's death unfortunately would have the least impact, considering that hes' mostly brute force( I know oversimplifying so sue me). I think this would be particularly hard on Leo though. Well that's enough...I'm tired.

[triplexxx]

[COLOR="SlateGray"]Leo may be the leader, but Donnie is like the glue of the team.Well, actually, they're all the glue of the team.

[Pepzi]

I’m goin with Mikey on this one. Why Mikey? Mikey is the light hearted one who can with just the way he is keep the family together. If he was to die who would Raph feel like he’d have to protect? Who would be Donny’s ally when Leo and Raph are fighting? Who’d be the Turtle who brings that silliness to the group that helps Leo realize how serious he is?
Lets face it, if you kill the young and the most innocent the people and those who knew and loved him will hurt, a lot. With his joyfulness gone the Turtles would become like stone cold to their enemies and less forgiving to anyone or anything.
But having said that the same could be said about any of the Turtles, lets all be happy that Venus is some how is dead and no other Turtle will have to follow.

[Rooish]

Will respond more later, but here's my opinion on Mikey's death: if he died, the others might become more effective in fighting--and by "more effective" I mean more lethal. They might just lose their morality a bit and kill everyone. I feel like they may subconsciously limit their kills around Mike, because he's so "innocent," or at least they think he is.

Of course they would all be emotionally broken, and I don't think being a lethal fighter is necessarily a good thing.

[shuriken]

Well, actually, they're all the glue of the team.

What I meant was that I don't think that the turtles would really stand each other without Donnie. Raph and Leo would be at each other's throats (more than usual) Mikey would feel either compelled to leave or choose sides (probably leave), and Leo and Raph would have to seperate.
Now that I think about it more I feel that any turtle gone would screw up the family and team.
Donnie dies they become less unified and go their seperate ways. Eventually loseing touch w/ one another.
Leo dies Splinter would be a mess and the rest would be unable to live up to Splinter's expectations but do become more skilled. Raph would be a mess and probably go on a thug killing spree, with the other two trying to stop him.
Raph dies and the rest of them are screwed in terms of brute force. The others especially Leo would grieve tremendously. Leo would feel responsible and most likely go insane while Donnie tries to fix everything and Mikey loses his sense of humor.
Mikey dies and the other three would become more brutal and cold. Eventually becoming cold blooded killers.
Well...that's what I think.

[Lord Nightwalker]

I don't think it would matter. They are family, the death of anyone of them would burn the rest, Vengence would be paramont.

[Sage Ninja]

Will respond more later, but here's my opinion on Mikey's death: if he died, the others might become more effective in fighting--and by "more effective" I mean more lethal. They might just lose their morality a bit and kill everyone. I feel like they may subconsciously limit their kills around Mike, because he's so "innocent," or at least they think he is.

Of course they would all be emotionally broken, and I don't think being a lethal fighter is necessarily a good thing.


mm, I sort of disagree. ANd really I think it depends what medium we are talking about. I think in the 2k3 and Mirage mediums the turtles, being warriors are all pretty used to the use of deadly force when the situation demands. I don't think any of the turtles have any qualms with taking a life in the heat of battle or when they have too. I don't think the turtles shelter or hold back in front of Mikey to protect his innocence since he is a warrior as well. However I think Mikey has a profound moral influnce on the turtles. I think the turtles know when it's ok to kill and when it's not and if they cross the line Mikey would remind them and they would step back in line. I could just see a scenario where one of the turtles gets a little over come with blood lust in the throes of battle and is about to finish an already down enemy and Mikey says: "enough, he can't fight back any more, he's no longer a threat" which snaps said turtle out of it and they realize he's right.

But this is the only reason I could see the others holding back because of Mikey. When Mikey points out that that a fight isn't a fight any more but a slaughter.

[Jelly Bean]

I voted for Donatello because I think that with out him the turtles would fall apart. In the family because they need his level headed and sweet nature to give them peace. And in the team because he makes everything they use, from their vehicles and supertech weapons.

[DonatelloDomeHead31]

Well i picked Donatello because which other turtle can run a computer? I almost picked Leonardo but then I realized that Donatello could be a leader or even Raphael, if he toned his attitude.

[Cipher]

I was leaning towards either Donatello or Michelangelo on this one but then I remembered:

Donatello's near death in the Image comics and how no one except Mikey cared. (Of course in the Image universe, even babies are hard-boiled killers who just don't give a damn.)

And Michelangelo's current disapperance in Volume 4, which none of them seem to care about either. (So where does that leave the Image comparison?)

The only thing I can conclude is that the Turtles are all cold blooded, emotionless monsters who wouldn't bat an eye if a thousand of their own fell in battle.

Right?

[thebrownranger]

This is a toughy. It seems Leonardo is the foremost obvious choice, but if you come to think about it, I think Mikey's death would have the greatest impact b/c he's what brings laughter and a sense of family to the team, almost like a little brother dying. Leo, Raph, and Don are more intertwined b/c of the same seriousness they all attain.

[shuriken]

I was leaning towards either Donatello or Michelangelo on this one but then I remembered:

Donatello's near death in the Image comics and how no one except Mikey cared. (Of course in the Image universe, even babies are hard-boiled killers who just don't give a damn.)

And Michelangelo's current disapperance in Volume 4, which none of them seem to care about either. (So where does that leave the Image comparison?)

The only thing I can conclude is that the Turtles are all cold blooded, emotionless monsters who wouldn't bat an eye if a thousand of their own fell in battle.

Right?

OH Image and your turtle decapitating shenanegans :roll:.

[Jelly Bean]

I don't think it would matter. They are family, the death of anyone of them would burn the rest, Vengence would be paramont.

Does any one think that if one of them was killed that the others would just commit ritual suicide after avenging the death of the brother that was slain? Leo said if "one goes down we all go down" so would that mean if one is killed the others will kill them selves too so they can all go together?