Beyond TMNT-FF.. no season 6 ?!

[tOkKa]

-->>:cry: :sick: :dead: :sick: :dead: :cry: :( :dead:


..this is in regard to 'Fast Forward' ..the now 5th season of TMNT not the lost 'Ninja Tribunal' episodes. Those are still in development to DVD but..

From some credible sources..:


Right now no new episodes are in development. The ratings for the
show will have to improve for there to be another season after FF.



Playmates supports the show. Mirage and 4kids wanted to go ahead and keep on with production of the show. But with ratings slipping ..and profits not to Playmates liking, that and 4Kids/Mirage were not wanting to pay for the showby themselves ..this is where things are at right now.


Nothing is absolute. Keep in mind that 'TMNT 4 movie' is due next year and 'TMNT-FF' will still be on the air during this time. The movie's success may green-light a new 6th season or even a brand-new Third show. Ya never know !! But again.. for now ..it looks like the 5th season is it for the current TMNT show.. !! Oii !! More as it develops !!

[GK Punk]

I've been trying to tell people this for awhile now.

[Gary]

I've been trying to tell people this for awhile now.That TMNT is losing ratings and FF is a last ditch effort to keep it on the air?

[Jo Dawn]

Yeah, obviously.


...A really poor effort.

[Cascadia]

This is truly sad...so we may only have one more year of the new TMNT television series.

[ZariusTwo]

Six seasons is a long and tremendously succesful shelf life. I don't see a downswing, we're getting the true fifth season on DVD. TMNT will make history with this, and conclude well thanks to Pete sticking to his vision.

Screw Fast Forward.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Six seasons is a long and tremendously succesful shelf life. I don't see a downswing, we're getting the true fifth season on DVD. TMNT will make history with this, and conclude well thanks to Pete sticking to his vision.

Screw Fast Forward.

Well said, but since I'm still praying for them to do episodes based of Complete Carnage and Radical and The River arc, I'm gonna watch every Fast Foward episode and but every piece of merchindise.

And I'll force everyone in Los Angeles to do the same if I have to.

[Barkworm]

Six seasons is a long and tremendously succesful shelf life.
Totally true, there are not many cartoons these days with this number of episodes.

[Spitfire]

Let's see a few reasons why there's a drop in sales.

1. Playmates toys suck ass. They look like Burger King toys and who ever gave them action features is mentally retarded.

2. The time slot is horrible for it. Inbetween Winx Suck and Sonic Lame.

3. The advertising for it is awful and annoying.

4. The show is targeted for teenagers and adults not kids, they try and target the kids in the ads, but the show is too mature for them. At times probly to scary.

F*ck 4Kids, F*ck Playmates, and F*ck TV ratings.

[Masked Ninja]

Agreed. Who the heck came up with the marketing for this? They act as if the show is for 6-year-olds, but it's older-kid-to-adult material. And actually... without Mikey's one-liners, it probably would have little to do with appeasing kids (specifically) at all.

And though it has little to do with ratings... the DVDs suck. Where are our season sets, already? Where's our cool special features? *sigh* Take the first few DVDs, put ten epsiodes or more on each, and that is something that would be worth it.

Finally... Fast Forward better be less crappy than I fear it will be. I will watch it, but it will be so much easier if it's actually decent. And I hope that they'll give us a season of TMNT if it succeeds, not another season of FF. The show has had a nice, good run, yes... but more of the stuff we've come to love would be welcomed.

[GK Punk]

That TMNT is losing ratings and FF is a last ditch effort to keep it on the air?

Yep. I've been saying that for along time, and whenever I do I Get greeted with posts like "OMG TMNT IS TH EBEST SHOW EVAR IT HAS THE BEST RATINGS AND IS SUPER GIGANTIC NUMER 1!!!"

[Ryona]

Let's see a few reasons why there's a drop in sales.

1. Playmates toys suck ass. They look like Burger King toys and who ever gave them action features is mentally retarded.

2. The time slot is horrible for it. Inbetween Winx Suck and Sonic Lame.

3. The advertising for it is awful and annoying.

4. The show is targeted for teenagers and adults not kids, they try and target the kids in the ads, but the show is too mature for them. At times probly to scary.

F*ck 4Kids, F*ck Playmates, and F*ck TV ratings.


I agree 100%!

This is such ****ing ********! The series is bloody awesome! God damnit. This is terrible news.

I really, REALLY hope that both Fast Forward and the new movie do very well. The movie could especially have great potential. They just gotta change that lame-ass modeling they have for the TMNT. Their faces especially look retarted.

Also, I think Mirage Studios needs to hire both TigerFog and I to make a TMNT manga series to attract the huge anime crowd.

[tOkKa]

-->> ..if this does lead to a 'NEW' series.. maybe they could take another stab at CGI .. i mean past the movie .. TMNT CGI on T.V.

..meh whadda' i know.. :sick:

[Ninja Tiptup]

Let's see a few reasons why there's a drop in sales.

1. Playmates toys suck ass. They look like Burger King toys and who ever gave them action features is mentally retarded.

2. The time slot is horrible for it. Inbetween Winx Suck and Sonic Lame.

3. The advertising for it is awful and annoying.

4. The show is targeted for teenagers and adults not kids, they try and target the kids in the ads, but the show is too mature for them. At times probly to scary.

F*ck 4Kids, F*ck Playmates, and F*ck TV ratings.

1) Playmates has put out a lot of great toys. The new TMNT toys are quite detailed infact.

2) The time slot is fine. 10:30AM is a good time for a Saturday morning cartoon. Not too early and not too late either.

3) Agreed. I'd kill for some Toonami style promotion for it.

4) Hold up buster. As much as I'm sure you want to believe that due to the stuff thrown in for nostaliga and the reliance on continuity it's a show aimed at 6 year old boys specifically. If they didn't do a good job at aiming it at kids that's a whole other issue. Nothing 4kids makes is aimed at anyone older than 11 years old (if that). They want 6-11 kids watching their sham of a Saturday morning block. But heavy content aimed at 6 year olds does indeed work in a lot of cases... Naruto for instance. It's TV-PG-V and it gets GREAT 6-11 ratings. Personally I think it's in bad taste to aim anything TV-PG-V at six year olds but apparently CN has no qualms with that.

The problem TMNT runs into is CN and 4kids refuse to let it be more than a show aimed at 6-11 and if 6-11 don't watch then they consider it a failure. That's why Fast Forward is going to retool the series and make it a bit more kid friendly.

I don't see why Playmates would say the sales are slipping though. They seemed to be QUITE good last time I checked.

The CGI movie should be enough to push for a another season but after that... who knows? As far as I'm concerned, TMNT ends with the Tribunal arc. Over 100 episodes is nothing to scoff at though.

But really my fellow turtle fans you have got to remember that first and foremost 4kids is aiming TMNT at kids. (hence the freak'n name of the company) Just like the 80's cartoon before it. They took a gritty teen aimed comic and made it kid friendly because it had potential to sell a lot of merchadise. We may have to face the facts that once again TMNT has run it's course. (How Power Ranger's never dies is beyond me).

The new TMNT SHOULD be aimed at older viewers but that was never it's intention. Mirage just threw those in for kicks and grins. Sometimes to poke fun at the old series. TMNT is no more mature than Justice League afterall and it's also aimed at kids (and it ended because the kids stopped watching). It's a cruel end for a great cartoon but TMNT isn't considered a franchise for older viewers and that's not going to change no matter how much we want it to. In the end, our viewings mean nothing to 4kids and Cartoon Network and we are at the mercy of the children that chose to watch or not watch our favorite cartoon.

[tOkKa]

Six seasons is a long and tremendously succesful shelf life. I don't see a downswing, we're getting the true fifth season on DVD. TMNT will make history with this, and conclude well thanks to Pete sticking to his vision.

Screw Fast Forward.


-->> :D ..d4mm..that's one opinionated summab8tch.. ;)

[ZariusTwo]

But really my fellow turtle fans you have got to remember that first and foremost 4kids is aiming TMNT at kids. (hence the freak'n name of the company) Just like the 80's cartoon before it. They took a gritty teen aimed comic and made it kid friendly because it had potential to sell a lot of merchadise. We may have to face the facts that once again TMNT has run it's course. (How Power Ranger's never dies is beyond me).

Because it' does everything this cartoon and many other succeses don't do succesfully, plug toys, AND it balances the substance and style, not the former overlapping the latter (not that that's a bad thihg, but it gets shows axed MUCH quicker. The best ones can only ever manage three to five now, and spin-offs to expand 'em.). Often at times it's been JUST as mature as the new TMNT cartoon at times (especially back before Disney purchased it).

Teen Titans was cancelled because the show was reran to death, the same with JLU, that would make anyone switch channels

[TerranigmaFreak]

Hey, some of you are going to the Comic Con this summer, right? Why don't you guys try talking to Laird and tell him what you think should be improved with the show. I'm talking about stuff like advertising and people complaining about bad time slots.

[Aztec General]

Hey, some of you are going to the Comic Con this summer, right? Why don't you guys try talking to Laird and tell him what you think should be improved with the show. I'm talking about stuff like advertising and people complaining about bad time slots.

What do you think Peter Laird will do with this "expert" advice? He doesn't have any say over when the show airs or even if it airs. His hands are as tied as ours. If the toys don't sell or the ratings don't improve, the show will be gone.

[Cascadia]

I think that the time slot should be at 10:00 AM. Sometimes sports would replace TMNT on Saturday mornings. Today was no exception.

[Dr. Doom]

I think it would be hilarious if Fast Forward turned out to be like...the best thing to ever happen to TMNT. Everyone would feel all stupid. It would be great. It probably won't happen tho, it looks pretty dumb.

[iris]

What do you think Peter Laird will do with this "expert" advice? He doesn't have any say over when the show airs or even if it airs. His hands are as tied as ours. If the toys don't sell or the ratings don't improve, the show will be gone.
You do talk to him. You tell him the fans are behind him, and they want more, and they're willing to do something about it.

Or, I mean, are you willing to do something about it? Because it's either that or say, 'it's been a great run while it lasted,' and let the show die.

[Sakirules]

I been saying this for a while. Once the movies comes out, the straight to DVD 13 part series of ninja tribune, and the FF season it looks to me that they'll call it a wrap

[Ecto Jedi]

I been saying this for a while. Once the movies comes out, the straight to DVD 13 part series of ninja tribune, and the FF season it looks to me that they'll call it a wrap

In any event, this show has been better than most people would say it had any right to be, and we should at least be greatful that we've been previleged enough to experience a new Saturday morning TMNT cartoon that has treated the characters with respect and has drawn so much influence from the original comics. :)

It's sad that the show might be coming to an end after FF, but at least we can find solace in the fact that we've all been able to enjoy six great seasons of Turtles all these years after the original show went off the air. Most franchises don't get such a remarkable second chance.

[Aztec General]

In any event, this show has been better than most people would say it had any right to be, and we should at least be greatful that we've been previleged enough to experience a new Saturday morning TMNT cartoon that has treated the characters with respect and has drawn so much influence from the original comics. :)

It's sad that the show might be coming to an end after FF, but at least we can find solace in the fact that we've all been able to enjoy six great seasons of Turtles all these years after the original show went off the air. Most franchises don't get such a remarkable second chance.

In the long run I agree with you. I still think that FF will be a disaster, but 6 seasons of TMNT, which were predominantly based off of the comics is pretty darn good. I just hope we get more Rat King before the end.

Also we should remember two things: 1) if the movie does well the show will continue (or a new one will start) and 2) we still have 2 ongoing Mirage comics (3 for the next few months). So all is not lost!

[shuriken]

For the most part i think the show's been doing pretty well. But I think the time slot should defenitely be closer to Sigma 6 and the returning Ultamite Muscle like at 9:30 or something. Not in between Winx, Sonic or what the hell's that other crap, Bratz. Because correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of little kids like 6-12 year olds(especially boys) still like TMNT as well as Sigma 6 and Ultimate Muscle and the canceled Shaman King.Wouldn't it be a better slot with those shows not with Sonic or *sigh*Bratz. I doubt that they would watch Winx just to see TMNT. Well at least that's my opinion.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Teen Titans was cancelled because the show was reran to death, the same with JLU, that would make anyone switch channels

I have to say your wrong there. JLU was canceled because CN nevered cared about the show. They did nothing to market the toys, there was little promotion for it, they never put out DVDs, the kept pre-empting it repediatley in favor of anime, and they never aired reruns. The left it in that 10:30 slot to die.

Or, I mean, are you willing to do something about it? Because it's either that or say, 'it's been a great run while it lasted,' and let the show die.

Exactly.

I'm sick of this. Batman, Superman, Spider-man, they get all the best merchindise, theyre toys are tight, people read their comics, and they're taken seriously as superheroes.

Us TMNT fans constantly get the scraps. The toys are poorly handled, the video games are half-assed, we still haven't got good DVD's, and now were in danger of losing are show because 4Kids is run by morons who can't market to the right damn audience.

Why are putting up with this, it's not fair. the Turtles are just as good of heroes and Spidey, Hulk, and Bats(who isn't even a superhero btw), yet people only see TMNT as the goofy cartoon show from the 80's and nothing more.

I don't know what I'll do, but I'm gonna try to do anything I can to change this.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Once again I fail to see what's wrong with the current toys? The old toys were a lot "cheaper" in design IMO. And TMNT is finally getting some collectables like those statues. However as serious comic icons the turtles are getting the shaft for sure. Even though there are kids shows based on them, people don't consider Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, X-Men and what not as "kids stuff". Only the Mirage comic line and I guess the Image comic line showed that TMNT had a backbone. This is probably because the TMNT people remember are the goofy cartoons and the Archie comics. Certainly the original video games (which were great).

Though on the topic of video games... I can't say I've played many good comic based VG's lately. TMNT 3: Mutant Nightmare is actually one of the best I've played in a long time. Most franchise games are mediocre so it's not just TMNT that gets it bad there.

TMNT was doomed to be a kids only franchise when 4kids picked up the rights. Despite this Laird and the crew at 4kids and Mirage managed to put out a serious TMNT action series with a good mix of action, drama and comedy making it worthy of the likes of the DCAU in the animation universe. But CN cans it for bad ratings and 4kids tweaks it for the same reasons. Truely the turtles can't catch a break. And expecting 4kids to aim something older viewers that aren't kids is silly. They're "4KIDS" afterall. You're in the boat of every anime fan that had a show dubbed by 4kids. Myself being a One Piece fan. It's got to be some kind of cruel irony that my two favorite franchises ended up in the hands of the company I hate the most.

JLU ended because the ratings with 6-11 were cut in half. Despite little promotion the toys did sell qutie well and in January 2005 JLU was getting over 1,000,000 6-11 viewers. It dropped to 500,000 by summer and by then CN stopped promoting it. So don't say CN never cared about JLU. They cared a great deal for over a year. But I will say they shouldn't have canned it yet. There was much potential left and it was the best show they were airing at a decent time. What's wrong with 10:30PM anyway? It was the most mature thing on Toonami, so it made perfect sense to air it last and right before Adult Swim.

[VaughnMichael]

Once again I fail to see what's wrong with the current toys? The old toys were a lot "cheaper" in design IMO. And TMNT is finally getting some collectables like those statues.
really then we most be looking at 2 differnt toy lines because the old tmnt line for 1 all of the toys stuck to the same size characters...if your going to try and do things in scale do them...don't do it half assed....and these old school mirage statues your talking about...the sculpting on them is just as good if not exactly the same as the old toy lines sculpting and detail. I hate Anime toys they are flat and boring I just find it sad that toys from the 80's & 90's had more care and detail put into them than todays stuff. I'm prolly gonna get bashed for this but I wish American toy companies would just stick with what worked and stoped trying to be like other countrys toys.
I mean seriously Playmates Logo hasn't changed one bit so why should the figures they obviously know if there isn't something wrong don't fix it.
But of course I could be placing the blame on the wrong people it could be 4kids making them make these horrid action feature based line...

However as serious comic icons the turtles are getting the shaft for sure. Even though there are kids shows based on them, people don't consider Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, X-Men and what not as "kids stuff". Only the Mirage comic line and I guess the Image comic line showed that TMNT had a backbone. This is probably because the TMNT people remember are the goofy cartoons and the Archie comics. Certainly the original video games (which were great)..
that they are...but let's not forget who had made the Turtle all kiddy in the first place it was Fox...I'd say where else could Peter have taken the guys again though cause honestly there isn't much else to go to...Cartoon Network is hardly even anything I seriously hate Anime now because of them and 4kids when you flood the markets with something leaving no room for anything else especially shows from the states good shows that they themselves made people start to get ticked and lose allot of intrest.....
And Let me just say to you as a huge fan of The Archie Comics more so than just about anything besides Mirage..that book may have not had blood but it sure was anything but childish..it touched on death, war, toxic waste, love, people giving their lives for others, huge battles, and allot of other really great things. So to call that series goofy is hardly deserving.
But I will agree and once again say that the video game world is also trying to hard they should just stick with the simple formulas that made the games so much fun I don't care if I can see all around me and what not I just want to fight as my favorite turtle and kick the crap out of some crazy mutants, robots, and ninjas!

TMNT was doomed to be a kids only franchise when 4kids picked up the rights. Despite this Laird and the crew at 4kids and Mirage managed to put out a serious TMNT action series with a good mix of action, drama and comedy making it worthy of the likes of the DCAU in the animation universe. But CN cans it for bad ratings and 4kids tweaks it for the same reasons. Truely the turtles can't catch a break. And expecting 4kids to aim something older viewers that aren't kids is silly. They're "4KIDS" afterall. You're in the boat of every anime fan that had a show dubbed by 4kids. Myself being a One Piece fan. It's got to be some kind of cruel irony that my two favorite franchises ended up in the hands of the company I hate the most.
I have to agree Peter and everyone should learn a big leason from all of this I mean honestly it doesn't seem like they learned to much of a leason from the last time Fox screwed the TMNT over. Oh well if this show doesn't last I can say I know they will come back some day and even stronger than ever cause I think the next time they come around they won't focus it towards kids...but who knows with this new movie on the way that could allready be changing..hell Peter could take the path of making 2 shows...one for kids and one for adults.

[Sakirules]

It's sad that the show might be coming to an end after FF, but at least we can find solace in the fact that we've all been able to enjoy six great seasons of Turtles all these years after the original show went off the air. Most franchises don't get such a remarkable second chance.

I think you mean 4 and soon to be 5 great seasons. But I do agree wit ya

[MasterMole]

The show should've never been on 4Kids, at least season 4. It should've been on Toonami all along, or just a daily prime time slot. It sure is frustrating the way Playmates and 4Kids advertise it in such a childish and goofy way. Instead it needs to be advertised like X-men, in a more tough and cool way that seems appealing to all ages. Do you know what I mean?

[Ecto Jedi]

I think you mean 4 and soon to be 5 great seasons. But I do agree wit ya

I stand corrected. :)

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

The show should've never been on 4Kids, at least season 4. It should've been on Toonami all along, or just a daily prime time slot. It sure is frustrating the way Playmates and 4Kids advertise it in such a childish and goofy way. Instead it needs to be advertised like X-men, in a more tough and cool way that seems appealing to all ages. Do you know what I mean?

That's the thing, Toonami isn't a good place either. Granted they'd be marketed to the right fan base, but it also would have been cancelled after 52 or so episodes. What action/superhero based show that has been on cartoon network made it to 100. Only one, JLU, and it did ony if you count that with Justice League.

Bottom line, theres no place safe for any good cartoons now like TMNT.

I have to agree Peter and everyone should learn a big leason from all of this I mean honestly it doesn't seem like they learned to much of a leason from the last time Fox screwed the TMNT over. Oh well if this show doesn't last I can say I know they will come back some day and even stronger than ever cause I think the next time they come around they won't focus it towards kids...but who knows with this new movie on the way that could allready be changing..hell Peter could take the path of making 2 shows...one for kids and one for adults.

I would just prefer one for adults. I'd rather they say "screw the kids this time, let's do one for the grown ups".

[VaughnMichael]

I would just prefer one for adults. I'd rather they say "screw the kids this time, let's do one for the grown ups".
I'd say that also but let's be honest they are out to make money...and can you blame them I don't not one bit. Sure you could go the adult way but Adults aren't going to buy tuns of tmnt things...just a few of us obsessed fans and those who remember the turtles from their childhoods.
I'm all for an adult based tmnt I'm hoping we get that with this new cgi *vomits* movie.

[Ninja Tiptup]

FTR I didn't mean to say the Archie comics were goofy. But I can see how you may have interpreted that. The Archie comics could get pretty dark or so I hear.

Few American cartoons last more than 52-65 episodes. JLU being an extention is an interesting exception but even a fantastic seriesl like the downright legendary Batman: TAS wasn't incredibly long. I'm not sure if it cracked 100.

You have to give 4kids credit for puting out 26 episodes a season since most series only get 13 a season including the previous king of kids action ratings Teen Titans. If TMNT was only 13 a season we'd only be up to 52 by now.

The American cartoon market has gone to crap with a few exceptions. There's still quality out there but it's hard to find. Some shows get lucky and last longer than you'd expect and others aren't so lucky and end before their time. But I'd say it's unrealistic to expect a lot of American toons to make it into the 100's. The main reason why Japanese shows pull that off is most are based on pre-existing material and they added in filler on top of that. That's why shows like Dragonball Z, Inuyasha, Naruto and One Piece are rediculously long. New TMNT also borrows stories from the comics (as have many other comic based series). Pokemon actually isn't based off of a manga and that brings me to the other reason why Japanese shows last longer on Japanese airwaves... popularity of the franchise and mass marketing of the merchandise. I would have thought Pokemon would have died out by now but it's still going. In America Power Rangers has lasted over a decade with no signs of stopping despite numerous changes of locale.

The US market is very fickle and the most common place to find cartoons is Saturday mornings (or at least it was) and cable has stolen a lot of those block's thunder for one thing and kids are finding other things to do than watch cartoons. Yet somehow Nick gets amazing kids ratings perhaps by name alone. Cartoon Network needs to get a clue and stop trying to be another Nick because they had better overall ratings when they were just an animation channel not a kid focused channel per say. Adult Swim started this parting of interests it seems.

For a premiere slot, it's hard to do much better than Toonami. CN is widely shown and Toonami promotes their shows quite well. As long as 4kids was still calling the shots I don't think TMNT would have been less episodes than it is now even if it started on Toonami. 4kids pushes out content to sell toys. As long as they toys sold they'd put out just as much or more TMNT episodes each season. Jetix seems like a good home for TMNT reruns. With over 100 episodes is NEEDS a prime time daily slot and Jetix could give it that no problem. CN doesn't want to sacrifice valuable prime time space on aquisitions unless they are HUGE draws for the network. Most shows can't keep a slot long in prime time these days unless they're an original that has a lot of other slots as well. Currently CN is doing one import justice, and that's Naruto. All aquisitions are in the same bag though. If they aren't on Toonami or Miguzi then they'll get really bad slots instead. I will say until the day I'm dead and burried that CN should have tried TMNT in prime time at least once but CN is stubborn and give up on good shows too quickly. Especially ones they have little to gain from and as an aquisition, all they can get from TMNT is ratings (ratings which apparently weren't good enough).

As for the new toys... I would say they are well detailed at least in relation to the show style. The old TMNT Playmates toys were obviously comic based and had little to no resemblance to the cartoon. Which was fine in it's own way but I like that the new TMNT toys fit with new show's style well.

There's only 1 time FOX truely screwed over TMNT. That was the Next Mutation. Before it was just a syndicated show that aired on FOX in some areas (mine as well) and then CBS picked it up and censored in the 90s. FOX has no ties to The Fox Box either as it's now 4kidsTV anyway. 4kids bought the time from FOX. All FOX could ever do is pre-empt it (and they did plenty) they had no control over what aired on it besides the usual S&P business which requires them to check the content of the cartoons airing on the block.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I'd say that also but let's be honest they are out to make money...and can you blame them I don't not one bit. Sure you could go the adult way but Adults aren't going to buy tuns of tmnt things...just a few of us obsessed fans and those who remember the turtles from their childhoods.
I'm all for an adult based tmnt I'm hoping we get that with this new cgi *vomits* movie.

I say they should market to the collectors. Theyr'e the ones that buy toys now, all kids care about are video games. That's why the new He-man line failed. They marked to kids instead of collectors who are over 13.

And to Ninja Tiptup; The new TMNT figures are sculpted good. But they lack any kind of proper articulation and scaling. That and theyr'e still migging alot of good characters.

And they still have those damn worthless action features. As for the games. The gameplay is repitative and dull, and require no real strategy, and thats a problem.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Scale issues? Honestly I've never noticed all that much. But I guess the turtles are bigger than they should be compared to the humans. Much less the big aliens which I suppose were also not the right size.

TMNT 3 takes a bit of effort at least by comparison to the others. You've got more useful combo's anyway and actually kids don't really buy them. I'm begining to think no one does these days.

Marketing to collectors is a great idea on paper and it's true that it's collectors buying a lot of TMNT merchadise but the marketability for the TMNT franchise with youth is still quite strong. They should have more collectors items but they should also have a youth product line because there is a lot of money to be made by marketing to both instead of just one. I'd say this for most of 4kids anime as well. Especially One Piece and Shaman King. The teen and adult market for their franchises is VERY strong but kids marketing makes the world go round so expecting any company to not market action shows to kids is pretty foolish.

I mean think about it. With all those collectibles out there you still see Spider-Man and Batman toys all over the shelves and that's not going to change. For similar reasons TMNT will continue to be marketed to youth. But they really should market it to oldies as well. At least some freak'n DVD box sets of the new show and more collectors items. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

[ZariusTwo]

FTR I didn't mean to say the Archie comics were goofy. But I can see how you may have interpreted that. The Archie comics could get pretty dark or so I hear.

Few American cartoons last more than 52-65 episodes. JLU being an extention is an interesting exception but even a fantastic seriesl like the downright legendary Batman: TAS wasn't incredibly long. I'm not sure if it cracked 100.

Timm counts the NBA episodes as part of the series, so it did in that regard, but the original series did'nt

In America Power Rangers has lasted over a decade with no signs of stopping despite numerous changes of locale.

Precisly because of the changes in locale, keeping powers, characters, and events fresh without the same old guys resuming the status quoe after receiving new powers and going through the same problems.

[Spitfire]

Buy the Lost Season DVD, buy it for friends, tell people to buy it. Buy the damn thing. If they see that it sells well then maybe there's a chance for a DVD release show if it gets booted off the air. If they see a season of the show can do well on DVD without even being aired that could be a good sign for us.

Just an idea.

[raphaelprime]

Buy the Lost Season DVD, buy it for friends, tell people to buy it. Buy the damn thing. If they see that it sells well then maybe there's a chance for a DVD release show if it gets booted off the air. If they see a season of the show can do well on DVD without even being aired that could be a good sign for us.

Just an idea.


I could see that happening, which would be fine with. I'd just hate to see all these possible stories and ideas go to waste.

My proposal? hear me out....go to Disney and offer it as a ToonDisney cartoon. ToonDisney airs the old X-Men series, which the new TMNT reminds me of, and they have been showing it for at least 2 years now. Not to mention the time it had on Jetix 3 years ago for X2.

**EDIT**

PS, I'll see if i can get some info reguarding episodes in and not in production in 2 weeks. I'll ask Gus and Jason if theres anything they can tell me.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Buy the Lost Season DVD, buy it for friends, tell people to buy it. Buy the damn thing. If they see that it sells well then maybe there's a chance for a DVD release show if it gets booted off the air. If they see a season of the show can do well on DVD without even being aired that could be a good sign for us.

Just an idea.

And a damn good one.

My proposal? hear me out....go to Disney and offer it as a ToonDisney cartoon. ToonDisney airs the old X-Men series, which the new TMNT reminds me of, and they have been showing it for at least 2 years now. Not to mention the time it had on Jetix 3 years ago for X2

That's actually not a bad idea. Disney did bring us Gargoyles, and both the shows are similar.

But wouldn't it being on Disney further it's kiddy reputation?

[raphaelprime]

That's actually not a bad idea. Disney did bring us Gargoyles, and both the shows are similar.

But wouldn't it being on Disney further it's kiddy reputation?


Disney Channel, yes, ToonDisney, less doubtfull. Not if they aired it with X-Men, Gargoyles, Spider-Man and Fantastic Four(which im not sure if they still air)

[ZariusTwo]

The darkest series on Disney now is SRMTHFG, (Wiesman works on it, so no surprise), and even that has tame restrictions.

[Drtooth]

TOYS I have a love hate relationship with the new TMNT toy line. They aren't great, they're polluted with lame, non-show specific varients (though the Mystic warriors from the video game looked pretty b*tchin'), and some have terrible action figures that make us want to rumple in defeat. However, They are 5 bucks a pop if you go to target. Cheapest action figures to buy, since some set you back 30 dollars. Playmates flew too close to the sun with certain action toys, especially those god awful TMNT battle tops (though I would have liked the Triceriton one), as well as several others, already mixed in with the countless X-treme sports varients on the shelves. Given also this has been the worst economy for toys for some time (I can give you the names of several companies that went bankrupt, thus killing the prospect of classic Sesame Street collectibles), bad sales don't surprise me.

Ratings Unless you have cable, their only competetor is Kids WB. Given my standpoint on the poor quality of most of their shows, including one that deserves a copywrite infringement law suit, I feel the fact they're losing to this crap is a total mental f**k. But 4Kids doesn't know what to do with anything. I mean, that whole "girls and boys segregated tv" line up is a joke, and it's hurting them. One Piece, as raped as it was by their hands, was still a great show. It flopped in a bad time slot, so they replaced it with an extra Italian p.o.s. fairy cartoon (wish Croker from Fairly Odd Parents would cross over and kill them all). They pretty much kept GI Joe (though I admit it was pretty good, better than Japanese Transformers) for the merchandising, and reran every one of the 5 episodes MERCILESSLY.

Fast Forward You know what certainly won't hamper the ratings further? Taking an old, cliched idea and using it to ruin a perfectly good show like TMNT! That surely won't make things much, much worse!

Lasting 5 years With that said, it's a bloody accomplishment nowadays. It isn't like the old days, where a series could be on for one season, then the only season would be reran for 3, 5, or even 10 years. An odd fact, most shows that reran one season over and over for years would be called "the New_________" dispite not having any new episodes, or even linking matereal whatsoever. Considering how cutthroat and dubious the ratings system is, this show could have aired 3 episodes out of 13 produced and never have been seen again, ever.... (poor little Muppet Monsters).

[Buslady]

Get TMNT off stupid little 4kids cause it AIN'T "4Kids", get it on Adult Swim, get some good writers and raise that rating to something a little more mature(like PG13 or so), (not dirty, just blood,etc) and they could really put something great out for adult fans.

I think FF is gonna kill our show. End of story.

[Inner City Blues]

Why are people so obsessed with blood? You don't need blood to make a series mature.

I can live with the Lost Season being it for TMNT, perhaps some direct-to-DVD releases could clean up characters like Hun and the Rat King, but I have no issue with the series ending, I would consider it to be going out on a high note with 100+ episodes.

[X]

One thing I've learned from the internet is you never believe anything until someone has gone on record of it.

Honestly these days someones grandmother can be a "source," but until you have concrete info from 4kids, Peter Laird, Playmates, you really have nothing. I personally (no offense to those who have been posting here and have like uber posting numbers,) will not buy into this, until something is officially stated by the three people I listed above.

As for Playmates not liking the sales of toys? I'm sorry but any store I go to I never see Turtle toys in stock. Either Playmates stopped making them (yea right,) or they sell that well (leaning more toward this.)

Sure they don't market the toys well, but everywhere I go I see something with the turtles on it. Just like when I was a kid.

As for ratings? Sure they probably aren't up to snuff. KidsWB is a hard thing to knockoff, but TMNT has something going for it, if it's lasted this long.

I just don't buy everything the main poster stated. Like I said, a source is a source, and being the internet, no one should be afraid of giving away a name, I mean really, is the world gonna blow up if the source is revealed? Nah... Everything will be fine that guy will still go home eat, take a shower and go to bed. Tokka can you reveal the source? I am also curious as to how a TMNT fan can get this kind of info (I'm very much in hollywoods door and know the business well,) from anyone with ties to the three heads listed above?

personally if the show ends, then my Saturdays are free again to sleep in, since I party so much on Fridays anyhow. I don't want it to however... I would really like to know what this "source" is.

-X-

[ZariusTwo]

One thing I've learned from the internet is you never believe anything until someone has gone on record of it.

That old mentality is dead and you know it, it's now just a firm measure of denial. "Oh this is'nt true until someone in authority says it" wake up. WWE matches are leaked out months in advance before the angles begin, Star Wars scrpts, accurate ones that were once seen as "fake" until they premiered, are taken now with more common sense, people were claiming the fifth season of JLU or the fourth season of Enterprise would'nt be the last either even if they SMELLED the end coming.

And you're telling us that internet sources should be taken with a grain of salt whilst at the same time telling us you work in Hollywood?

You are SO calling the kettle black right now.

[X]

Yea. To put this into a good example. A friend of mine recently told me, "yea I heard on the internet Akira Toryama (dragon ball z, dragon quest character designer,) was dead." I contested it saying that he is still doing designs for many upcoming projects. I then told him not to believe everything he hears or reads. I then took him to numerous places showing that the man is infact, alive. One website was enough to get those who read it to believe them.

As for me being in Hollywood. I never expect anyone to believe me, nor was I was stating I'm in Hollywoods door to get any kind of attention. I was stating I knew the business from being around those people, having worked on a project that's since become a movie, and having many friends in Hollywood. As well as having a masters degree in applied science (filmmaking.) Your views on not believing someone who's close to Hollywood could come to a TMNT fan board are your own, no one can deny you your right to your personal assesments. You will however, find youself surprised who you can be surrounded by.

-X-

[Ryona]

You are SO calling the kettle black right now.

I've heard this a couple of times already. Kettles and pots, and them being black. What does it mean and what popculture reference is it from?

[Gary]

Well, post and kettles are black, so they shouldn't call eachother black. It's like a fat person calling a fat person fat.

I don't think it's a popculture reference. it's something grandparents say.

[iris]

Like I said, a source is a source, and being the internet, no one should be afraid of giving away a name, I mean really, is the world gonna blow up if the source is revealed? Nah... Everything will be fine that guy will still go home eat, take a shower and go to bed. Tokka can you reveal the source? I am also curious as to how a TMNT fan can get this kind of info (I'm very much in hollywoods door and know the business well,) from anyone with ties to the three heads listed above?TMNT fans have been known to be very resourceful.

I'm not willing to dismiss this with such a cavalier attitude. I understand being doubtful about unnamed sources, but I can also understand being unable/unwilling to reveal sources. But I would caution that the "right now" of the original post puts a very short shelf life on the statement. Things change very, very quickly in entertainment.

[lambofun]

i think TMNT is going to be going for a while. TMNT is the best of the cartoons that are out right now. The comic book is kickin shell lol.

If we Fast Forward and say that TMNT isn't going to come on anymore, we are just setting ourselves up for disaster. Stick to the TMNT as long as you can and support TMNT.

[Gary]

Why would they take something that is doing very well, and scrap it to start over with a lot of small things that won't even get a second or third season?

[Spitfire]

To ensure TMNT's success they need to out source to Japan. Have the Japanese make a show that has the production values of something from 1996 and the writters from Dragon Ball Z. Then bring it over to the US and have it dubbed by some no name studio and about half way through switch to Funimation.

Then they need to make sure they add in swear words like ass that they can put on DVDs and tag them as unrated. Also make sure they have Bandai make the awful toys and the crappy games. And when the DVD is released there can be no more then 3 episodes on a disk and cost no less then 24.99 a peice.

When your done with that make sure they build a fan base of 12 year olds who think the show is beyond cool and keep liking it for years to come even as adults. Dispite the fact the storylines are awful and the voice acting is horrid.

When your done with that sit back and rack in the cash. Have them make a horrible movie every year or two and release it as lost. Then re-dub the first 2 seasons so all the voice acting is the same and re-release the DVDs for more profit. And re-release the old DVDs remastered at the same price as the orginial except this time they have ooo slip covers!

If anyone here watches anime you know that is exactly how it is. No matter how insanly awful the show is 1 billion 12-15 year olds think it's the greatest thing on Earth.

[OldSchooler]

I kinda wish people would just wait and see before getting all beaten up over this FF thing. NOBODY knows where this is going, everyone is speculating. I personally find the idea of the Dark Turtles pretty cool, and with all the Slash fans around, I thought more people would too. We've been told the lost season will come to DVD. Good. I'd rather we get the dvd of a season that MAY have been at risk of losing it's core audience (-KIDS-), than just run something for the fans that may have ended the show's run. IF FF works, we get more TMNT. Simple as that. FF might turn out to be great, NO ONE KNOWS. It might not, but until we're into the season, I'm reserving judgement, and willing to give it a try.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Get TMNT off stupid little 4kids cause it AIN'T "4Kids", get it on Adult Swim, get some good writers and raise that rating to something a little more mature(like PG13 or so), (not dirty, just blood,etc) and they could really put something great out for adult fans.

I think FF is gonna kill our show. End of story.

Well the original comics are anything but kid friendly as are the Image comics but TMNT is a youth franchise just as much as any of those 80's animation uh... classics. So expecting an Adult Swim show is excepting far too much. Considering 4kids owns the property now besides Mirage. They do have a teen and adult off-branch now but TMNT much like many of their anime will not be considered for older demographic pushes. Which is stupid but that's just how it goes. IMO the Saturday morning TMNT is more than mature enough. But I agree, get it off of 4kidsTV because that block is just bringing it down. Unfortunately it seems 4kids own block is the only one that will play TMNT now.

[Ryona]

Off topic, but something I've been wondering...

Ninja Tiptup, is your name supposed to be Ninja TipTop? If it's a typo, you do know you can get Krang to fix it, right?
Not that it bothers me. I'm just giving you a helpful tip.

[ZariusTwo]

i think TMNT is going to be going for a while. TMNT is the best of the cartoons that are out right now. The comic book is kickin shell lol.

The comic is'nt making a lick despite it's quality. By Pete's admission. The show is keeping it alive as his own back pocket.

As for "sticking to the TMNT no matter what", I'd rather do to this what I'd do to The Simpsons, take the horse behind the barn, and pull the trigger. I remember saying the same thing when the original hit six seasons.

Well the original comics are anything but kid friendly as are the Image comics but TMNT is a youth franchise just as much as any of those 80's animation uh... classics.

As much as I'd love to point how you can say "classics" without the sneerish stutter, it's quite funny a lot of the other 80's shows like Thundercats and Transformers got away with a lot more than what TMNT were turned into.

[lambofun]

The Simpsons show needs to go. Bunch of sick humor

[X]

I agree Lambo. I think the show will remain a little while longer. If I had to anticipate how much longer I'd say at least 2 more seasons. Let them get home, tell a final story about putting what remains of the foot in their place, tie up loose ends with Bishop and close it down.

However, I also think it'll go on longer then 2 more seasons.

-X-

[Ninja Tiptup]

Off topic, but something I've been wondering...

Ninja Tiptup, is your name supposed to be Ninja TipTop? If it's a typo, you do know you can get Krang to fix it, right?
Not that it bothers me. I'm just giving you a helpful tip.

Actually no it isn't a typo. Long ago when Rareware still made good games they came up with a character named Tiptup Turtle. He was in Diddy Kong Racing and Banjo-Kazooie. I always liked the little guy and decided since he was a turtle I'd modify Ninja Turtle to Ninja Tiptup and that's how I got this alias.

On just about everywhere else I'm Sketch or Sketchor. But I like to have a TMNT relavent name here.

[Drtooth]

Get TMNT off stupid little 4kids cause it AIN'T "4Kids", get it on Adult Swim, get some good writers and raise that rating to something a little more mature(like PG13 or so), (not dirty, just blood,etc) and they could really put something great out for adult fans.


I'd say that since TMNT is one of the few comic properties that appear on TV years and years without large gaps (of 10 years or more) in their being televised, I'd say wait 5 years. Since it is an adult fan based show, I'd love to see a brand new, starting from scratch TMNT show EXACTLY based on the comics, word for word with few creator approved bits to stretch it into enough time to fill in a half hour. Something like the Maxx was. (as far as I can tell, I haven't seen or read enough to really tell). Something where the bandanas are all red. Something that looks like the comic come to life.

Also, if this is the end of the TMNT series, it dashes off any hopes for an Usagi Yojimbo series. and I couldn't help notice how well those episodes came out. It's a shame they couldn't try a series as a quasi-spinoff, with a couple TMNT cross overs.

[CyberCubed]

I'd say that since TMNT is one of the few comic properties that appear on TV years and years without large gaps (of 10 years or more) in their being televised, I'd say wait 5 years. Since it is an adult fan based show, I'd love to see a brand new, starting from scratch TMNT show EXACTLY based on the comics, word for word with few creator approved bits to stretch it into enough time to fill in a half hour.

They'd end up running out of material fast. A large chunk of Volume 1 isn't canon, and Tales Vol. 1 and Volume 2 are so short. The Image series and a large chunk of the specials don't take place either, so that just leaves Tales Vol. 2 and Volume 4.

It's no wonder the new cartoon had to create all these new storylines, there isn't much material to work with in the main canon Mirage storyline.

[iris]

Personally, I like seeing new stories. It's nice to have them grounded in the comics, but not totally necessary.

[ZariusTwo]

I'd say that since TMNT is one of the few comic properties that appear on TV years and years without large gaps (of 10 years or more) in their being televised, I'd say wait 5 years. Since it is an adult fan based show, I'd love to see a brand new, starting from scratch TMNT show EXACTLY based on the comics, word for word with few creator approved bits to stretch it into enough time to fill in a half hour.

...TMNT is and always will be a children's franchise. Regardless of it's roots.

Besides, basing it on the comics completly means there's nothing original to watch, and to be honest, all of the GOOD comic storylines have been adapted in this series, (most of the ones after "RTNC", barring "SOTSA" and Berger's Leatherad stories tried to take too many liberties with the canon to the point none of them count now) and the ones that made the most sense

[Ecto Jedi]

...TMNT is and always will be a children's franchise. Regardless of it's roots.

Exactly. Thanks to the Saturday morning cartoon and the huge phenomenon it caused back in the early '90s, the Ninja Turtles will always be immortalized as a part of childhood for a whole generation; they represent innocence, simplicity and good-hearted humour.

If I had to estimate, I'd say that about 85% of those who watched the show and cherish the memories are unaware the Turtles started out as a dark, gritty black-and-white comic book -- and even fewer have actually read them. We here at the Technodrome are the exception. :)

...Which is why a TMNT cartoon aimed at adults simply wouldn't work. In keeping with their legacy, the Turtles should always strive to appeal to a new generation of youngsters and continue to recruit new fans in this manner.