Baxter Stockman, wow that was dark

[Toonami Tom]

I was thinking about how 4Kids banned Insane in the Membrane, and then I got to thinking about Baxter in the other episodes. The on going theme of Baxter being hurt (taken apart) is very dark for a kids show. It doesn't bother me, but it makes me wonder where 4Kids logic is. They allow Baxter to be taken apart (even though it's off screen violence), but they ban Insane in the Membrane. Everything before Insane in the Membrane was way worse, he was even a brain in a jar!

I just don't understand the logic, other than what was shown in Insane in the Membrane was very creepy and on screen. Still though, Baxter being a whole man in an episode, then the next time he's seen he's missing an eye is deep stuff. Then he was in a wheelchair with a robot arm. So, what do you guys think about this?

Now, this could be because staff was changed before Insane in the Membrane was banned(right?).So it could just be that the staff before was more accepting of dark themes(and violence).

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

Yes, I agree. Baxter was basically tortued throughout his tenure on the show. He wasn't the same looking character in nearly every episode he appeared in. The Utrom Shredder was so vicious to him. I can see why he hates him so much. But yeah. It is odd that 4kids and Fox allowed a character (a human character) on supposedly a kids cartoon to be serious tortued. It's quite shocking. But I can also understand their reasoning not to allow 'Insane' to be aired. That was on air and that was a no-no.

Oh and I have a request. Could someone compile a serious of screenshots showing Baxter's slow but steady fall from all of his stages of torment. I'm not even sure how many different times he changed over the course of the series.

[agoaj]

Yes, I agree. Baxter was basically tortued throughout his tenure on the show. He wasn't the same looking character in nearly every episode he appeared in. The Utrom Shredder was so vicious to him. I can see why he hates him so much. But yeah. It is odd that 4kids and Fox allowed a character (a human character) on supposedly a kids cartoon to be serious tortued. It's quite shocking. But I can also understand their reasoning not to allow 'Insane' to be aired. That was on air and that was a no-no.

Oh and I have a request. Could someone compile a serious of screenshots showing Baxter's slow but steady fall from all of his stages of torment. I'm not even sure how many different times he changed over the course of the series.
Here's my avatar: http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6254/stockman0kr.gif

[Toonami Tom]

Cool avatar.

Baxter's stages:

1. Good condition.
2. Missing an eye with a patch.
3. Wheelchair, neck brace, 1 robot arm, and patcheye.
4. Giant robot body with weapons, still with neck brace (and cyborg eye?).
5. Robot spider with red cyborg eye replacing the eye patch
6. Head in utrom exosuit
7. Head on the neck of utrom exosuit, with the exosuit's stomach closed
8. Brain with spine, and 1 eye in a jar
9. Brain with spine, and 1 eye in a jar, with a hologram projection of Baxter's head above the jar.
10. Brain is placed in a tough looking, humanoid robot body, with a hologram of Baxter's head above the neck.
11. Robot body with 4 legs, 2 arms, with hologram of Baxter's head floating above the neck (there might be more parts attatched to this robot body that I'm forgetting about).
12. Zombie-type falling apart body.
13. One eyed, "creature" body.

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

Cool avatar.

Baxter's stages:

1. Good condition.
2. Missing an eye with a patch.
3. Wheelchair, neck brace, 1 robot arm, and patcheye.
4. Giant robot body with weapons, still with neck brace (and cyborg eye?).
5. Robot spider with red cyborg eye replacing the eye patch
6. Head in utrom exosuit
7. Head on the neck of utrom exosuit, with the exosuit's stomach closed
8. Brain with spine, and 1 eye in a jar
9. Brain with spine, and 1 eye in a jar, with a hologram projection of Baxter's head above the jar.
10. Brain is placed in a tough looking, humanoid robot body, with a hologram of Baxter's head above the neck.
11. Robot body with 4 legs, 2 arms, with hologram of Baxter's head floating above the neck (there might be more parts attatched to this robot body that I'm forgetting about).
12. Zombie-type falling apart body.
13. One eyed, "creature" body.

The avatar is cool but can anyone still post a single pic of all 13 stages?

[iris]

I was thinking about how 4Kids banned Insane in the Membrane, and then I got to thinking about Baxter in the other episodes. The on going theme of Baxter being hurt (taken apart) is very dark for a kids show. It doesn't bother me, but it makes me wonder where 4Kids logic is. They allow Baxter to be taken apart (even though it's off screen violence), but they ban Insane in the Membrane. Everything before Insane in the Membrane was way worse, he was even a brain in a jar!

I just don't understand the logic, other than what was shown in Insane in the Membrane was very creepy and on screen. Still though, Baxter being a whole man in an episode, then the next time he's seen he's missing an eye is deep stuff. Then he was in a wheelchair with a robot arm. So, what do you guys think about this?

Now, this could be because staff was changed before Insane in the Membrane was banned(right?).So it could just be that the staff before was more accepting of dark themes(and violence).
Insane In The Membrane was built like a horror movie. Baxter fell apart mentally as well as physically, and then got totally fixated on April and tried to torture and kill her. We didn't see that type of thing in previous episodes, even though we were aware of Baxter's torture at the hands of The Shredder. I like horror movies, but they're not exactly appropriate to show to seven-year-olds on a Saturday morning.

[Toonami Tom]

I made this for you, Leonardo Warrior Turtle:) :

http://www.maj.com/gallery/AgeTec/TMNT/baxter001.jpg

I don't have a pic of stage 13 yet, and stage 12 is Baxter before his body turned zombie-like.

[ZariusTwo]

I like horror movies, but they're not exactly appropriate to show to seven-year-olds on a Saturday morning.

How many seven years olds saw Optimus Prime gunned down in front of them? How many seven year olds watched The Black Cauldron? How many seven year olds saw Deadman possess Batman in order to shoot dead a Legion of Doom member?

I am hoping to again see episodes like Gargoyles' "Deadly Force" on telivision again and enough with this BS lullaby pre-school PC crap

[Toonami Tom]

We also can't forget, 4Kids allowed Shredder to have his head sliced off. That actually caused me to jump when I saw it for the first time. I thought he was human. I thought to myself before watching the episode "There is no way that Shredder is going to have the same fate as in the comics" and then I saw it and pretty much thought "Whoa! What the heck was that?! Whoa!":D

[Sage Ninja]

How many seven years olds saw Optimus Prime gunned down in front of them? How many seven year olds watched The Black Cauldron? How many seven year olds saw Deadman possess Batman in order to shoot dead a Legion of Doom member?

I am hoping to again see episodes like Gargoyles' "Deadly Force" on telivision again and enough with this BS lullaby pre-school PC crap

I heard that "Deadly Force" was edited in other showings of the episode because some networks thought it was to gritty.

But what the hell, seriously I think realistic violence is better than dumbed down cartoon vilolence. I think kids need to know that if you get hit in the head hit something heavy you'll bleed, not get your head flatened to the shape that it was hit with and then pop back into place in the next scene. :roll:

[Ecto Jedi]

But what the hell, seriously I think realistic violence is better than dumbed down cartoon vilolence. I think kids need to know that if you get hit in the head hit something heavy you'll bleed, not get your head flatened to the shape that it was hit with and then pop back into place in the next scene. :roll:

Damn Looney Tunes...

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Damn Looney Tunes...

If anything, Looney Toons is more damaging for kids. They teach them if you get shot point blank range, you can just walk off pannel and be allright again.

Anyway, if I hadn't already seen IitM, I would be more outraged about all this.

[iris]

How many seven years olds saw Optimus Prime gunned down in front of them? How many seven year olds watched The Black Cauldron? How many seven year olds saw Deadman possess Batman in order to shoot dead a Legion of Doom member?
How many parents want their kids to see that? How many investors want to back violence with "kids" as the audience? Yeah, they've done some majorly jacked up stuff on some shows... on lots of shows, really... but if the writers keep pushing, at some point something's gonna snap. It's possible that it the grit of 2K3 finally got the attention of the wrong people. You know how political the issue of "what's good for the children" is. They're editing the cigarettes out of Tom and Jerry as we speak.

[ZariusTwo]

How many parents want their kids to see that?

Plenty if given a free voice and not a buch of censors saying it for them.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

How many parents want their kids to see that? How many investors want to back violence with "kids" as the audience? Yeah, they've done some majorly jacked up stuff on some shows... on lots of shows, really... but if the writers keep pushing, at some point something's gonna snap. It's possible that it the grit of 2K3 finally got the attention of the wrong people. You know how political the issue of "what's good for the children" is. They're editing the cigarettes out of Tom and Jerry as we speak.

I have a simple way of solving that. Make it against the law for anyone under 13 from watching tv. That way, all of our tv shows will stop being pussified.

[VaughnMichael]

Plenty if given a free voice and not a buch of censors saying it for them.
that would be nice and all but that's not how it works in America.:ohwell:

[iris]

Plenty if given a free voice and not a buch of censors saying it for them.
The majority rules, and the majority doesn't want that in the lineup marked "for kids." They repealed many of the censorhip rules in the 80s, but they've crept back in based on majority opinion, often with psychologists' backing. And you know, maybe they're right because maybe the show wasn't rated high enough so even the V-chip option wouldn't have worked in this case.

[PizzaPower]

so this insane in the membrane episode never aired??? will we get it on dvd???

[Jon]

so this insane in the membrane episode never aired??? will we get it on dvd???



With the upcoming Season 4 DVD on Sept. 12th, it is possible "Insane in the Membrane" will be on it (given that the 2-disc set is to have 14 episodes on it -- and there are just 15 episodes remaining not put on DVD from the Season 4 run). With the last ep., "Ninja Tribunal", subsequently figured as going to be on the DVD Set with the 'Lost Season' it's story starts-up.

[Stephen]

And you know, maybe they're right because maybe the show wasn't rated high enough so even the V-chip option wouldn't have worked in this case.

What's this V-chip thing? I'm from England, so never heard of it.

[Jon]

What's this V-chip thing? I'm from England, so never heard of it.


In short it's a 'blocking device'. Like Parental Control aspects of cable boxes, to block any shows the folks don't want their kiddies to see.

[iris]

What's this V-chip thing? I'm from England, so never heard of it.
Like Jon said. Television sets sold in the US since 1999 have had a device called the "V-chip" that allows you to block programs with certain ratings. This was mandated by the Federal Communications Commission in 1996. Looking at the ratings (http://www.fcc.gov/vchip/), was the show rated correctly for IITM? It's TV-Y7-FV.

TV-Y7 (Directed to Older Children -- This program is designed for children age 7 and above.) It may be more appropriate for children who have acquired the developmental skills needed to distinguish between make-believe and reality. Themes and elements in this program may include mild fantasy or comedic violence, or may frighten children under the age of 7. Therefore, parents may wish to consider the suitability of this program for their very young children. Note: For those programs where fantasy violence may be more intense or more combative than other programs in this category, such programs will be designated TV-Y7-FV.

Subjective.

[ZariusTwo]

The majority rules, and the majority doesn't want that in the lineup marked "for kids." They repealed many of the censorhip rules in the 80s, but they've crept back in based on majority opinion, often with psychologists' backing

Direct to DVD series marketing is a perfect censor bypass, and it's little wonder Marvel Comics are going that route with Ultimate Avengers and Spider-Man. F*ck the majority, we can slip by 'em

[iris]

But if TMNT had that option (realistically), would they be stuck trying to squeeze into the saturday morning format?

[ZariusTwo]

This all comes down to what TMNT's network censors want, not any other network that would probably look the other way, like what CN do with Codename: Kids Next Door and Billy and Mandy. What TMNT lacks is the option to jump ship