So does everyone hate 'Fast Forward' here too?

[Wildcat]

I wanted everyones opinions here cause over at IMDB everyone hates it and has bashed too the extreme.

I myself like it,but everyone says its horrable and the aniamtion sucks and the storylines suck and they hate the comedy bits,basicly everything.

But Like I said I LIKE it,and I don't see it as a whole new series,cause Cody Jones has a bunch of the old costumes and stuff in his museum and April and Casey were Codys GreatGrandParents,plus they are in the lair at the start of ep. 1(which I guess we can assume they made it back ok from that cliff-hanger at the end of last season),Plus the Turtles even make refrences to the past 4 seasons,even in the first episode when they see the Triceriton unloading that newspaper van.

Anyway I like it and think the storylines are still good,like Cody's Uncle is hiding something,OH and I don't mind the comedy bits either

[iris]

We've got mixed reactions. There's some liking it, there's some wanting to like it, there's some tolerating it, and there's some Arrgh... You maniacs! You blew it up!

[Wildcat]

We've got mixed reactions. There's some liking it, there's some wanting to like it, there's some tolerating it, and there's some Arrgh... You maniacs! You blew it up!

Oh wow,well I have been a TMNT fan since the original toon way back when,and I was really happy when they came back in 03 which I have seen every episode since then,And yeah I too liked the darker style of the past 4 seasons but I like Fast Forward too.

[Buslady]

I love TMNT but FF is pushing it...It's really lame when they have the guys pretty much acting out of character and pisses me off when they got Raph going "It's ninja time" when that is WAY WAY WAY OOC...that's Mike's territory not Raph, Don or Leo's. Mike's the goof who likes the silly cliche's.

So it sucks in some ways, it doesnt in others. I'm too lazy to get into it more.

[Toonami Tom]

I don't hate it, I do like the past 4 seasons alot better though.

[creativerealms82]

Well I'm pissed off that the "True Shredder" season was canned for fast forward, shortened to thirteen and to be released as a "Lost season" Not a total loss but we probably lost a few good stories to get to Fast Forward Faster.

The first episode was week while the other two were a bit stronger as they introduced the main villains and what. Plus the character personalities are still the same for the Turtles and that is Very important to me.

It is a step back but no where near as bad as the Dreg seasons, Next Mutation of Movie 2.

[Toonami Tom]

4Kids could have aired the true season 5 (Lost Season) and Fast Forward if they wanted to. To think that a 30 minute time slot is going to a show about talking pinatas.:roll:

[Masked Ninja]

Well, that's 4Kids for ya.

I'm of the wanting-to-like-it crowd. The previous 4 seasons are superior and I don't like the direction they're taking... yet I think it still beats all the other 4Kids shows currently airing. Some things I like, some things make me want to beat my head against the TV. It still has time to prove that it's worth watching, I think.

[Jo Dawn]

I hate it. I won't go into the why's and whatnot... but I don't like anything about it.

It's such a bad situation. If we don't watch it, TMNT ends. If we DO, we get more FF.

I prefer it end. Well, actually, I preffered it end before we got to this point, but... whatever.

[Draconic]

Well, I just saw the first 2 episodes of FF today, after having not seen the other new cartoons, and I have to say that it did make me pretty enthusiastic. It looks pretty good. Before seeing these episodes, I was nearly boycotting the new cartoons, expecting to be let down, and even though these episodes are so looked down upon, I still found them to be refreshing, funny, and nicely animated.

[Spitfire]

I hate it. I won't go into the why's and whatnot... but I don't like anything about it.

It's such a bad situation. If we don't watch it, TMNT ends. If we DO, we get more FF.

I prefer it end. Well, actually, I preffered it end before we got to this point, but... whatever.
No truer words can be spoken. I'd rather see TMNT die. I mean Playmates is comming out with some decent toys now in support of FF but I really just don't like it.

[PizzaPower]

I love it, but I do like the other animation better then what it is now. They could do that better.

[ZariusTwo]

Hate it. Loathe it, think people lower their standards deliberatly to support it out of sheer spite, think the animation is a train wreck and the characters unappealing, think the writers phone it in and go half ass.

[mariomania]

1 word




TRASH!:evil:

[R-iZZy]

Currently, it's pretty much ass. But with time and effort, it has the potential to be a decent series. I find myself tolerating it enough to support it (and by "support", I mean leave my TV on the channel and go out the room for the sake of ratings, then catch it after the VCR is done recording).

But since we know the team doesn't have intentions on improving it for a broader audience, but rather for the kids... we can pretty much expect the quality of this show to lack critically compared to the 2K3 series. But I can see that the team is planning on using the same formula of connecting episodes. It seems that way after watching the first three episodes.

[Damien Kash]

I hate it!

It just isn't fun.
I get almost angry seeing FF(maybe because I wanted to see the next season and not skip it)but it looks worse and...the new figures make me even more angry.....so NOW we can have some good,correct versions of tmnt and cast,but it has to be sci fi-ish??


I love the turtles but this sucks.....almost want Next mutation instead...almost...

FF could and should have been just a few episodes in the regular series.

(Only cool thing yet are those dark turtle figures)

[Mandi-chan]

I loathe it!

And I was one of the few people defending it before it came out, telling people to give it a chance and that it would be good because it was still (supposedly) the same team working on it....

It's abosulte garbage!

Cheap animation.

The Hamato clan acting OOC.

Bad script.

Horrible jokes that are severly overdone.

And from what I've seen, weak stories as well.


I loved the 2003 series, and this isn't it.

I don't care if the show gets canned or not now, because from what I hear...this is the kind of quality we'll be getting from now on.

So, I hope this show crashes and burns, I hope it ends with FF.

At least we got 4 great seasons of an excellent show, with a fifth half season on the way to dvd.

That's all I care about.

[Ecto Jedi]

I like it, not only because of the tone and setting of the 'toon, but also because I think it has a legitimate chance of bringing new fans (e.i., kids) into the ever-growing Ninja Turtles fandom. Of course, at my age, I'm a sucker for continuing storylines and thought-out characters, and I love the attention to detail that was present in TMNT 2K3 -- but we did get four full years of Turtle goodness, which is more than anyone could have expected when it first debuted. As we tuned in every Saturday morning, we saw characters come and go, storylines evolve and develop, and above it all, the humour and animation stay largely intact. Plus, even though the series is all but dead, we do get a mysterious, myth-like "Lost Season" to hunt for in stores! (Come on, it'll make a great Wikipedia entry.) :lol:

That being said, Fast Forward is a whole different ballgame. The animation doesn't strike my fancy as much as TMNT 2K3's did, but that's about the only thing I can complain about. And although some people on the forums take offense when FF is compared to the original '87 'toon, I can't help but draw the same comparison. In contrast to TMNT 2K3's dark environments and nighttime brawls, FF's visuals are bright and simple, and most of the action takes place during the day -- a trademark of the old cartoon. Additionally, the new show's "one episode, one bad guy" format harkens back to the simpler days of Saturday morning TV, back to that glorious time when city streets were patrolled by TMNT, Power Rangers and Transformers.

No FF doesn't replace the classic 'toon, or any of those other great cartoons, nor does it try to. The original TMNT will live on as a classic example of 80s/90s pop culture and its place in the TV Hall of Fame is all but assured. TMNT 2K3, on the other hand, was one of the finest American cartoons of the past decade and is still a TMNT fan's wet dream, mainly because of its great visuals, broading storylines, and the way it balances both the old and the new to create something that is both refreshing, but oddly nostalgic at the same time.

And Fast Forward? Well, it's a Turtles cartoon assembled and presented much like the great cartoons of the past, made to attract a whole new generation of young kids. 'Might not be your cup of tea, but I think it has a shot at accomplishing just that.

[VaughnMichael]

I like it, not only because of the tone and setting of the 'toon, but also because I think it has a legitimate chance of bringing new fans (e.i., kids) into the ever-growing Ninja Turtles fandom. Of course, at my age, I'm a sucker for continuing storylines and thought-out characters, and I love the attention to detail that was present in TMNT 2K3 -- but we did get four full years of Turtle goodness, which is more than anyone could have expected when it first debuted. As we tuned in every Saturday morning, we saw characters come and go, storylines evolve and develop, and above it all, the humour and animation stay largely intact. Plus, even though the series is all but dead, we do get a mysterious, myth-like "Lost Season" to hunt for in stores! (Come on, it'll make a great Wikipedia entry.) :lol:

That being said, Fast Forward is a whole different ballgame. The animation doesn't strike my fancy as much as TMNT 2K3's did, but that's about the only thing I can complain about. And although some people on the forums take offense when FF is compared to the original '87 'toon, I can't help but draw the same comparison. In contrast to TMNT 2K3's dark environments and nighttime brawls, FF's visuals are bright and simple, and most of the action takes place during the day -- a trademark of the old cartoon. Additionally, the new show's "one episode, one bad guy" format harkens back to the simpler days of Saturday morning TV, back to that glorious time when city streets were patrolled by TMNT, Power Rangers and Transformers.

No FF doesn't replace the classic 'toon, or any of those other great cartoons, nor does it try to. The original TMNT will live on as a classic example of 80s/90s pop culture and its place in the TV Hall of Fame is all but assured. TMNT 2K3, on the other hand, was one of the finest American cartoons of the past decade and is still a TMNT fan's wet dream, mainly because of its great visuals, broading storylines, and the way it balances both the old and the new to create something that is both refreshing, but oddly nostalgic at the same time.

And Fast Forward? Well, it's a Turtles cartoon assembled and presented much like the great cartoons of the past, made to attract a whole new generation of young kids. 'Might not be your cup of tea, but I think it has a shot at accomplishing just that.
very well said! It's not that I hate it or love it but it's just kinda there and all of yours reasons listed are why it reminds me of the old toon also.:)

[ZariusTwo]

streets were patrolled by TMNT, Power Rangers and Transformers

...What shows were you watching? PR, TF, and the earleir and later seasons of the o d show all had arcs and were'nt simple at all

[Spitfire]

Maybe I should add that though I am in a state of hate towards it I will still watch it. These episodes were simply previews I mean we got alot more comming. I'm sure we will have some sort of story arc. I still just hate the overall feel of the show though.

[Whitewolf89]

I happen to like it. I like their new look and the new, furustic weapons (my fave weapons have always been Raph's sais, but Leo's NEW katanas are VERY cool, IMVHO, and I think that FF will get better with time.

[lilonardo]

I think Fast Foward promises lots of good stuff for me :) .

[iris]

Me: So they've changed "Ninja Turtles." Have you seen it?

12-year-old nephew: Yes. [beat] Unfortunately, I'm never going to get that half hour of my life back.

:p

[Ecto Jedi]

Me: So they've changed "Ninja Turtles." Have you seen it?

12-year-old nephew: Yes. [beat] Unfortunately, I'm never going to get that half hour of my life back.

:p

Yikes! Hopefully he's in the minority... :lol:

[Spitfire]

I want 60 minutes of my life back I watched 3 episodes <_<

After watching 3 episodes of TSL I dislike FF even more.

[Mecha Cow]

I expected it to be worse, so I don't hate it, but I can't say I really like it either. The show clearly jumped the shark, and I fully expect it to be cancelled in the near future. Oh well, at least there's still this 'lost season' to look forward to.

*E* I just made my 1000th post in a damn Fast Forward thread. :lol:

[PizzaPower]

...What shows were you watching? PR, TF, and the earleir and later seasons of the o d show all had arcs and were'nt simple at all
LOL! you have always cracked me up Zarius!!! and I did not get to see the end of season 4. Athough I wish season 5 came to be on tv I hope they at least release it on dvd and fast forward is ok, I did not like the 3rd episode, it was crap to me also.

[ZariusTwo]

LOL! you have always cracked me up Zarius!!!

Dude, I was'nt joking:|

[Ninja Tiptup]

Fast Forward has a very different flavor than the 2003 series and I must say I don't like it.

It's more episodic - should help get kids watching

Even the villians are cheesy now - also might help get kids

The animation style is less detailed and that really makes Splinter look awful

Cody Jones is not a very strong character by any means - also might get kids watching

The music isn't as good as the 2003 series

The production quality isn't as good either

All and all, if they wanted kids (and they do) this should get more kids. But now the one good thing 4kids EVER did has become mediocre garbage like their rest of their crap. Sad thing is... it's still the best thing on Saturday mornings especially on 4kidsTV.

I too would rather it die out. Playmates can put out some sweet toys for the movie in 2007 and then TMNT can take another break and return years later even better than 2003's return (if Laird wills it).

[PizzaPower]

and if the networks allow it. I know Zairus, I just thought it was funny.

[Stephen]

I don't particularly mind Fast Forward that much, but then again TMNT is only really a casual interest for me ......

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I hate the thing. The first episode looked awful, the second was just allright, and I didn't bother waking up at 3:30 am to see the third.

Honestly, if they wanted stand-alone and lighter tones, they could have done it like JLU season 3. The episodes were stand alone, but still connected, the art style didn;t turn into pseudo-anime trash, and the while the tone lightend up, it still had the perfect b;end of character based humor and hardcore action.

Plus, the new theme song suckes wourse than the 2K3.

[Zachatello00]

Well, it's good to know that everyone doesn't hate it. This is the first time I've logged on this summer, and just expected the "New Ninja Turtles Discussion" section to be completely removed out of sheer spite.

I really enjoy it. I think, as some others have stated, there is some real promise for some great story arcs, and the toys they've made for it are absolutly fantastic, I love them, but still can't find Raphael.

In the end, you gotta figure, it's 4Kids, they never keep a show running the same way for more than three years. Look at Pokemon for example, or pokemon johto, or pokemon master quest or...

[Jo Dawn]

Me: So they've changed "Ninja Turtles." Have you seen it?

12-year-old nephew: Yes. [beat] Unfortunately, I'm never going to get that half hour of my life back.

:p


Yikes! Hopefully he's in the minority...

And I sincerely hope that he is in the majority. Actually, I do believe that he IS. It'd be a nice 'screw you' to 4kids in the tune of 'You meeeessedd uuuuUUUppp'.


Honestly... it's the most horrible cartoon I've ever made myself watch. I don't wanna see ANYthing like the old toon. I don't wanna see poorly written, drawn, half-attempted episodes with annoying characters and childish, HORRIBLE humor.

Maybe next time, they can get TMNT on a good channel that gives them more freedom to do what they want.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

And I sincerely hope that he is in the majority. Actually, I do believe that he IS. It'd be a nice 'screw you' to 4kids in the tune of 'You meeeessedd uuuuUUUppp'.


Honestly... it's the most horrible cartoon I've ever made myself watch. I don't wanna see ANYthing like the old toon. I don't wanna see poorly written, drawn, half-attempted episodes with annoying characters and childish, HORRIBLE humor.

Maybe next time, they can get TMNT on a good channel that gives them more freedom to do what they want.

Good Channel, thats an oxymoron.

Unless CN can get it's act together and put more faith in american cartoons too baddly dubbed anime crap, there is no other network worthy of TMNT. Except maybe Sci-Fi Channel. It's the only other choice.

And I am disappointed that this show is more like the old one, but if anything, it's worse.

[Ecto Jedi]

Plus, the new theme song suckes wourse than the 2K3.

Well, you do have a point there...The opening of the song is pretty dreadful, though it does get quite catchy near the end. Again, just a matter of personal taste.


I really enjoy it. I think, as some others have stated, there is some real promise for some great story arcs, and the toys they've made for it are absolutly fantastic, I love them, but still can't find Raphael.

Agreed. I look forward to seeing the Turtles meet their evil doppelgangers, and wasn't there talk of a Bishop cameo later in the season?

[PizzaPower]

the old toon was good, don't make fun of it.

[ZariusTwo]

Ecto's a baiter, good thing I slapped him on Ignore, his preferences of FF over the original cartoon also completly dismantle his attempts at an argument:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The old school cartoon bashing is certaingly a sign of narrow-minded ignorance, especially since both series are completly seperate.

[Ecto Jedi]

the old toon was good, don't make fun of it.

Ecto's a baiter, good thing I slapped him on Ignore, his preferences of FF over the original cartoon also completly dismantle his attempts at an argument:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The old school cartoon bashing is certaingly a sign of narrow-minded ignorance, especially since both series are completly seperate.

Uhh...Did I miss something? :-?

[iris]

Uhh...Did I miss something? :-?
I think I missed it too. We both must be slackers.

[ZariusTwo]

...I thought Ecto was bashing the original toon, seeing I've had him on ignore for a while to cover other parts of the thread, and because our arguing was getting out of hand

Just going by Pizza Power's comments. Nothing else, apologies.

[Jo Dawn]

Actually, old toon bashing is against forum rules.

Besides. I think trying to compare this new horror (or ANY) TMNT incarnation against the old toon is silly and a moot point. The old toon was OVER years ago, let it GO. It was a different time and era, one that will never come to pass again. It certainly does not relate to NOW, in any way.

Comparing eras and ages of cartoons and stuff is entirely not worth arguing.

[Ecto Jedi]

Ecto's a baiter, good thing I slapped him on Ignore, his preferences of FF over the original cartoon also completly dismantle his attempts at an argument

The old school cartoon bashing is certaingly a sign of narrow-minded ignorance, especially since both series are completly seperate.

...I thought Ecto was bashing the original toon, seeing I've had him on ignore for a while to cover other parts of the thread, and because our arguing was getting out of hand

Just going by Pizza Power's comments. Nothing else, apologies.

'Speaking of narrow-minded ignorance. :roll:

[GK Punk]

He apoligized, let it go.

[oldmanwinters]

Not everyone hates Fast Forward. This guy has a really cool xanga and gives TMNT:FF some fair-minded praise.
http://www.xanga.com/Retro_Playback

And I must admitt that although I would have preferred a Batman Beyond style TMNT future series, I think the new show has some promise. And at least Fox was kind enough to give Mirage a chance to revamp the series before cancelling it outright like so many other shows. I'm going to let season 1 air completely and then cast the ballot.

[ZariusTwo]

Retro Playback's article is just the same as when the author posted it here

the new show's "one episode, one bad guy" format harkens back to the simpler days of Saturday morning TV, back to that glorious time when the city streets were patrolled by TMNT, Power Rangers and Transformers.

...And as was then, this person has no clue about those shows or what the old toon was.

[GK Punk]

Not everyone hates Fast Forward. This guy has a really cool xanga and gives TMNT:FF some fair-minded prai

That's Ecto's site actually.

the new show's "one episode, one bad guy" format harkens back to the simpler days of Saturday morning TV, back to that glorious time when the city streets were patrolled by TMNT, Power Rangers and Transformers.

Transformers never patrolled streets, and rarely had "Villan of the ep" stories. It was generally Megatron creating/Stealing/Devestating and Teletran 1 Saying "Dude, Prime. Srsly, Megatron's not a cool dude, he's like, blowin' stuff up"

And prime'd be all "Dude, that's ****ed up"

and then he'd be all "AUTOBOTS TRANSFORM. AND ROLLLL OUT!"

Ok, nitpick over.

[oldmanwinters]

All due respect, ZariusTwo, but I do seem to remember that TMNT OS and the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers (to my great shame, I didn't watch any Transformers or Voltron when they were on so I can't say) seemed to feature one primary antagonist per show. Sure there might have been Krang or Rita Repulsa pulling the strings, but the plot usually centered around a particular villian who needed to be put down. And put down, they were.

And Retro_Playback seems to know quite a bit about the good ol' days of TV and video gaming, so I doubt ignorance is a concept that accurately fits him (even though everyone may flub up on facts now and again). Hence the name, "Retro_Playback.";)

[ZariusTwo]

All due respect, ZariusTwo, but I do seem to remember that TMNT OS and the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers (to my great shame, I didn't watch any Transformers or Voltron when they were on so I can't say) seemed to feature one primary antagonist per show. Sure there might have been Krang or Rita Repulsa pulling the strings, but the plot usually centered around a particular villian who needed to be put down. And put down, they were.

...Later seasons not so much, and there were long term storylines in both like the Eye of Zarnoth and Tommy's war with Lord Zedd over his powers, the show became more arc driven after it stopped being mainstream, and then even with one antagonist per episode, several of those were multiple parts.

And Retro_Playback seems to know quite a bit about the good ol' days of TV and video gaming, so I doubt ignorance is a concept that accurately fits him

You're looking at a guy who thinks any guy who buys a pink PS2 should be punched in the face.

[oldmanwinters]

You're looking at a guy who thinks any guy who buys a pink PS2 should be punched in the face.

Part of me feels the same way about people who didn't buy a Dreamcast. J/K :lol:
I had great affection for that little grey box. Too bad it got discontinued around early 2002.:cry:

[GK Punk]

I own two Dreamcasts :lol:

[Ecto Jedi]

You're looking at a guy who thinks any guy who buys a pink PS2 should be punched in the face.

I rather they be put onto planes, flown to a deserted island and roasted alive by a group of primitive natives...But that would be an ideal world. :lol:

Seriously, Zarius, your comments are getting quite ridiculous. Might we put an end to all this pointless bickering and get on with the topic at hand?


And Retro_Playback seems to know quite a bit about the good ol' days of TV and video gaming, so I doubt ignorance is a concept that accurately fits him (even though everyone may flub up on facts now and again). Hence the name, "Retro_Playback."

Thanks, oldmanwinters! You have no idea how much I appreciate your kind words. Comments are often hard to come by on Xanga. :)

[oldtoonTMNTfan]

I love Fast forward and I can't wait for the season premiere.

[ZariusTwo]

But you've already seen it.:lol:

[oldtoonTMNTfan]

But you've already seen it.:lol:

No, I only saw the 1st three episodes of the show. The full season starts on september.

[Jo Dawn]

Well, technically, 'first three episodes' would incur 'premiere', as a premiere is the beginning. So, we did the premiere of this series.

And it sucks.

[ZariusTwo]

No, I only saw the 1st three episodes of the show.

...That means you did watch the premiere. Learn to correctly distinuguish "premiere" with "the full season begins in September"

[Lady Venus]

I thought it was ok. But the Ninja time line is getting pretty old.

[VaughnMichael]

Well, technically, 'first three episodes' would incur 'premiere', as a premiere is the beginning. So, we did the premiere of this series.
And it sucks.
ok I'm sorry but as a mod I think you should have a bit more self controll...and I know you know what I mean....this place is getting really out of hand...yes I get it allready you hate fast forward.:roll:

[ZariusTwo]

Heh heh, Oldtmntfan just PM'ed me to boast how he put me on ignore...owned much?:lol:

[Jo Dawn]

Interesting, as I've shown nothing but self control. Nothing in what I said was stated in a mean or harsh way. I simply brought up the meaning of 'premiere'. I wasn't mean, I wasn't sarcastic. I was simply pointing out a technicality of a definition.

The problem in this thread, is people are lashing out and trying to pick on people with opinions that differ from their own.

Thank you for your concern, but I've never typed anything in a sarcastic or demeaning way. :) I know how to do my job.



(And PS - As a human, I have the right to state my opinion as many times as I want to, and I've never done it lashing out at anyone or trying to make them think the same as me. If I weren't allowed, then those that love the show should only be able to say they like it once and be over with it. It's not like I roll my eyes at those that love FF. That, I'm afraid, is what's wrong with these discussions. I don't roll my eyes at those that continually say how much they love FF.)

[VaughnMichael]

Heh heh, Oldtmntfan just PM'ed me to boast how he put me on ignore...owned much?:lol:
damn that's lame lol..:roll:
Interesting, as I've shown nothing but self control. Nothing in what I said was stated in a mean or harsh way. I simply brought up the meaning of 'premiere'. I wasn't mean, I wasn't sarcastic. I was simply pointing out a technicality of a definition.
The problem in this thread, is people are lashing out and trying to pick on people with opinions that differ from their own.
Thank you for your concern, but I've never typed anything in a sarcastic or demeaning way. :) I know how to do my job.
(And PS - As a human, I have the right to state my opinion as many times as I want to, and I've never done it lashing out at anyone or trying to make them think the same as me. If I weren't allowed, then those that love the show should only be able to say they like it once and be over with it. It's not like I roll my eyes at those that love FF. That, I'm afraid, is what's wrong with these discussions. I don't roll my eyes at those that continually say how much they love FF.)

I'm not saying your being mean but seriously you don't need to post "it sucks" every time someone posts something about it...it's annoying.
It's not just about that I'm not going to get personal or anything Hun but Zarius is doing that allot and resorting to name calling..mature I think so..:roll: And he's getting backed up by the mods...why because almost all of them hate fast forward....
And before you even flame me Zarius I have no problem with you I do however have a problem with people who can't let others have their own opinion. and before you say anything about a pot calling some one black or whatever the color of a pot is these days....I don't care what some one's opinion is as long as your not telling some one to have yours and bashing it into some one else's skull every chance you get.
I mean honestly I was so annoyed yesterday I almost deleted the link I've got saved to come here and just stop coming because of how out of hand this board has really become.
This place is just getting way to negative...it's sad.
The Moderators of this site have pretty much become a joke when they stand by and let the trolls of a site run it and ruin it for everyone else to enjoy. I mean I can't even post what I think of something without the fear of being flamed for what I think or being told to think like everyone else, or that I'm a bad fan or lowering my standards.
I'm just sticking up for the little guys when the big bullies come along I always have and always will.
You can think how ever you want I just don't go posting every time some one says they hate it asking them why they do nor do I tell them to like it...that's all....even if some think that's what I'm doing...I honestly could care less if anyone likes it but me...but like I said I'll be damned if I stand around and be told not to like something...even when it's only ok and I don't like it that much in the first place.:)

[Jo Dawn]

Well, I hardly think any mod is backing anyone's behaviour. But please, feel free to PM me your examples and I will definitely look them over, and also talk with the other mods about it. As per your discretion, of course. If you would like me to stay mum about something, I certainly will.

And that goes for anyone. Trust me, I am human and I do make mistakes. I'm a big girl, and if you feel I've messed up I will certainly talk to you about it via PM to fix it, or ANYone can feel free to PM me with any concerns about anything in general.

Nothing I say on board should let you shy away from me if you need me. That is what I'm here for.

[ZariusTwo]

damn that's lame lol..:roll:


I'm not saying your being mean but seriously you don't need to post "it sucks" every time someone posts something about it...it's annoying.
It's not just about that I'm not going to get personal or anything Hun but Zarius is doing that allot and resorting to name calling..mature I think so..:roll: And he's getting backed up by the mods...why because almost all of them hate fast forward....

I'm demanding a certain logical standpoint from people, I don't know how many times I've said this now but I have NOT gone after anyone who has provided these attributes.

I don't have much tolerance for the kind of fans who back a show when it's quality takes a downswing just to keep it on the air, that's what one calls selling out.

Sometimes I think Pete took that hiatus not JUST because of the movie, but also to make sure he did'nt have to deal with angered fans demanding the current show return as it was, the Lost Season to air on current networks, or for Fast Forward's cancelation.

before you say anything about a pot calling some one black or whatever the color of a pot is these days....I don't care what some one's opinion is as long as your not telling some one to have yours and bashing it into some one else's skull every chance you get.

...But that's exactly what you do, you were doing it before I even started retaliating on behalf of everyone you were deriding for HATING Fast Forward, with those dated "Lols", and "Whatz? I can't belevez you said thatz", so please, next time you don't want to call the kettle black, don't fall into the pot, because you're far from innocent in these discussions

[PizzaPower]

this had turned into a bad fight, we did to ask ourself's here, would laird want us to be fighting like this epsically if the TMNT toon "was" for the kids????

[shuriken]

No I believe he would not. Anyways, to me FF is pretty bad, in many ways.I won't even try to compare it with the 2k3 toon because that was one of the highlight of my Saturday mornings.
PROS OF FF.-TMNT still retain most of their personality
-Cody Jones, Viral, and Shokanawa(can't remember wtf his name was) are pretty interesting Characters
-ummm....the weapons are cool:|
CONS-Animation looks like a crappy attempt to look anime
-Splinter's head looks huge, and apparently loves his soap operas more than my mom
-a theme song more painfull than 20 bee stings and a razor blade to the tongue
- NO, Foot, Bishop, Rat King, or any of the TMNT's "supporting cast"
-Serling must die:evil:
-the holographic dojo is shamelessly reminiscent of the X-men
-"I'ts Ninja Time" makes Cowabunga sound cool.
I shall still watch it, but if I'll record it so I won't have to hear that song, ugh.Rock On.

[Jester]

I can honestly say I respect Jo's opinion. I like >> (You like it...I did it because people said FF reminded them of Final Fantacy and the 2 should never be mentioned together, so I did the VCR/DVD fast forward symbol...ok...shuting up.) , but she doesn't and she's told me exactly why. What burns my biscuts are others (not anyone here right now...but elsewhere) who think those of us who like >> would also accept a steaming bag of crap with the letters TMNT written on it in crayon. That is just low.

EDIT: I don't mind the "Mary Sues" though I wish we had some better ones. I feel that only 3 episodes in we have no idea of the "big picture". I don't mind the humor, it kind of...note "kind of"... reminds me of the classic TMNT. The art design is new, but the art design from other series (mostly the "New Adventures of Batman") grew on me, this will too. Hopefully. I'm just willing to give it a bit more time before i call it dreck. Bishop's in it somewhere, and you really can't play him that light. I'm sure we'll see more than just cheesy jokes and "Ninja time!" ;)

[Nexxorcist]

I'm demanding a certain logical standpoint from people, I don't know how many times I've said this now but I have NOT gone after anyone who has provided these attributes.


"A certain logical standpoint" is pretty general. and the fact that you're "demanding" people to have this "certain logical standpoint" is what pretty much sums up what Putrescent said "I can't even post what I think of something without the fear of being flamed for what I think or being told to think like everyone else, or that I'm a bad fan or lowering my standards."

Are ya reading this Jo?

[ZariusTwo]

"A certain logical standpoint" is pretty general. and the fact that you're "demanding" people to have this "certain logical standpoint" is what pretty much sums up what Putrescent said "I can't even post what I think of something without the fear of being flamed for what I think or being told to think like everyone else, or that I'm a bad fan or lowering my standards."

Are ya reading this Jo?

Again, I've proven I've never went after anyone who has supplied logical standpoints, I thought that's what it took to be a fan who knew their product and can find any flaw redeemable, the fact you'd rather keep stalking me and reitterating the same s*it and not back up your own support of FF with that proves me in every way right that nobody can, and it's support for the sake of the franchise, not the season

Secondly, I've never called anyone a "bad fan", just that their standards are lowered to enjoy this, I was questioning their tastes, never their fandom

[Jester]

Must we do this, really. I've read most of this and Zarius and Jo were just voicing their opinions. Sure, there was a point Jo and I "debated" >> on mIRC and it got kinda heated, but I've decided it's not worth it to stay mad or push the issue. She's my friend and she's voiced her opinion and her reasons for it. Let it go! It's just a saturday morning cartoon show! Thank you.

[oldtoonTMNTfan]

"A certain logical standpoint" is pretty general. and the fact that you're "demanding" people to have this "certain logical standpoint" is what pretty much sums up what Putrescent said "I can't even post what I think of something without the fear of being flamed for what I think or being told to think like everyone else, or that I'm a bad fan or lowering my standards."

Are ya reading this Jo?

Just put ZariusTwo on ignore, it makes the board more enjoyable. :D

[ZariusTwo]

Just put ZariusTwo on ignore, it makes the board more enjoyable. :D

When I put someone on ignore, I don't feed them PMs with childish ranting that I'm on ignore, like you do.

Best part about this little buisness is now everyone learns this except you.

[GK Punk]

The thing that seems to be the most annoying in this thread right now, is both sides (Not everyone involved in the argument, however) seems to be saying, basically, That you suck if you like it, or you suck if you don't like it, rather than just liking what they want to like, and not caring what others think of it. (ZOMG RUN-ONS)

I think it's pretty terrible. I'd much prefer them to do new seasons of the classic series if they want to be silly and cute TMNT. (Classic owns all ;) )

That doesn't mean someone shouldn't enjoy it. Love it. TiVo it. Memorize it. Have a blast. The sad fact is, this is our last shot at TMNT as a toon right now. If this fails, it's over. If this succeeds, then we'll get more FF.

And Edge is an awesome WWE champion. Yeah, that has nothing to do with anything else, just thought I'd put it out there.

[VaughnMichael]

Must we do this, really. I've read most of this and Zarius and Jo were just voicing their opinions. Sure, there was a point Jo and I "debated" >> on mIRC and it got kinda heated, but I've decided it's not worth it to stay mad or push the issue. She's my friend and she's voiced her opinion and her reasons for it. Let it go! It's just a saturday morning cartoon show! Thank you.
That's exactly what the freaking hell I've been trying to say!!
I'm not trying to start fights with anyone or make anyone like Fast Forward...I just don't like when people get put down for thinking for themselves as much as Zarius Jo don't...I also have never had a problem with Jo before..Zarius on the other hand has gotten on my last nerve allot of the time but I try and just go past it..but I won't sit around while people get bashed...that's what the Mod's should be taking care of but they don't.
I've droped the give Fast Forward a chance thing.
So why can't people just stop pushing buttons every time some person posts something they like about it? it's driving me bonkers seriously...:dead:
Just put ZariusTwo on ignore, it makes the board more enjoyable. :D
that won't help anything some times he's got good points...I said some times..:razz:
When I put someone on ignore, I don't feed them PMs with childish ranting that I'm on ignore, like you do.
Best part about this little buisness is now everyone learns this except you.
It is quite childish and an easy way out I agree but the best way to ignore some one is to just read what they have to say and move on...or just to not even bother reading their posts.;)
The thing that seems to be the most annoying in this thread right now, is both sides (Not everyone involved in the argument, however) seems to be saying, basically, That you suck if you like it, or you suck if you don't like it, rather than just liking what they want to like, and not caring what others think of it. (ZOMG RUN-ONS)
I think it's pretty terrible. I'd much prefer them to do new seasons of the classic series if they want to be silly and cute TMNT. (Classic owns all ;) )
That doesn't mean someone shouldn't enjoy it. Love it. TiVo it. Memorize it. Have a blast. The sad fact is, this is our last shot at TMNT as a toon right now. If this fails, it's over. If this succeeds, then we'll get more FF.
And Edge is an awesome WWE champion. Yeah, that has nothing to do with anything else, just thought I'd put it out there.
That's exactly the point I was trying to get to but some times I tend to get a bit lost. Besides the thing about Edge being awsome lol:lol:
I'm demanding a certain logical standpoint from people, I don't know how many times I've said this now but I have NOT gone after anyone who has provided these attributes.
I don't have much tolerance for the kind of fans who back a show when it's quality takes a downswing just to keep it on the air, that's what one calls selling out.
Sometimes I think Pete took that hiatus not JUST because of the movie, but also to make sure he did'nt have to deal with angered fans demanding the current show return as it was, the Lost Season to air on current networks, or for Fast Forward's cancelation.
...But that's exactly what you do, you were doing it before I even started retaliating on behalf of everyone you were deriding for HATING Fast Forward, with those dated "Lols", and "Whatz? I can't belevez you said thatz", so please, next time you don't want to call the kettle black, don't fall into the pot, because you're far from innocent in these discussions
Well, I'm not sure if you realize this or not Zarius but the world doesn't revolve around you or what you think. Everyone is born with their own mind it's just a case of if they use it or not.
Well, we both know not everyone on a message board is going to give a list of why they do or don't like something people are lazy.
It's may be a sell out to you but believe it or not some fans feel as if they are being loyal to the property by at least watching the show and trying to be positive about the 3 measly episodes they've been shown. Perhaps you should try having some tolerance though cause your going to have to get used to it as much as I that it just comes down to this that Fast Forward is here allot hate it, some think it's ok and would prefer the 2003 tmnt, and some actually like it. We're all different and think for ourselves it's always going to be this way until they turn us all into mindless zombies even if you think allot of people are for liking Fast Forward lol.:lol:
Hmm you know that's actually not a bad theory very well come be why Peter took the break leaving poor damn to get a flood of hate mail.
Well, that is if anyone really gives a damn about TMNT besides us.
Ok please don't do things I did before this it's not right because I've since stopped when you brought it to my attention I was being a bit childish about it.
I've stopped so why can't the people on the old end you know the haters stop.
I have just as much right as anyone else to say please chill your ranting about how much you hate it is getting annoying..and this goes out to anyone.
I'll also that you not to make fun of the way I write it's extremely off topic and has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Also I use those so people know I'm not being a complete ass and to take what I'm saying lightly.
I also never said anything about being innocent.

[BigApple3AM]

Pros...err... pro
We got some pretty neat turtle figures that are COMPLETELY different than what was coming out before, which is always good. It keeps the line fresh, rather than getting the same figure over and over with different gear and accessories.

Cons
I don't like how they're targeting the littlest of kids. I mean wasn't that the reason why everyone liked the 2k3 toon more than the old one... that it was more "mature"? That was the sole purpose of relaunching the series in my mind, to give the turtles a bit more street cred. Then they go and make it worse and more kiddy than ever before. This new show is much worse than the old 80's one. The old one was a trendsetter, with great HUMOR writing. Though it was about action as well, it was about humor first and foremost, which made it appealing to lots of people of any age (though I'm sure adults got sick of it). The new show is about action first and foremost, but it's downplayed and dumbed for a smaller age audience. What they forgot is that kids aren't dumb. They try adding humor but it just comes out so contrived and forced. And rather than creating trends, they kind of follow all the most pop culture pandering. The biggest problem I have is that awful theme song, sounds like something stolen out of Nickelodeon (tween central). Like I should start skateboarding and hanging out in the mall wearing clothes too tight that don't fit and feel extremely self conscious.

Most of all though, is that it kind of tarnishes my view of Laird. I mean I respect the man truly, great guy, but he did sell out in the 80's and 90's, and those are more his words than mine. He admitted in interviews or letter columns that the old toon isn't what he wanted and that they gave the studios lots of leeway. Then he goes and makes this new show that seems more based on his visions, only to be transformed into the ultimate whore of his franchise that is fast forward. It just proves that turtles are commercialistic first and artistic second (if at all). Doesn't he have enough money as it is? If they were just going to trash what he worked hard to do with the 2k3 show, why not just cancel it altogether? He obviously despises the old cartoon, but then turns around and one ups it. Just seems hypocritical.

I apologize if I offend anyone.

[ZariusTwo]

Pete does'nt hate the original cartoon at all, he's stated that fifty times in the letters pages, he was eternally grateful for it putting the franchise on the map, he did'nt agree with all of it, but he does have affection for the show, there is no doubt the old show inspired him to make Saki Ch'rell the Utrom (Influenced by Krang and the ARCHIE comics), and many of the present show's later in-jokes all reference that particular series, and not even in an insulting manner either.


"Everyone liked the new toon more than the...", what fandom are you listening to? This fandom does'nt ALL think the new show is better than the original, hell I think this version has always been inferior despite being just as good.

Pete had to bend the franchise to save it, he had to comprehend his values in the 1980's to get it noticed also, that is not selling out, that's called making drastic buisness decisions, especially when the movie needs as much exposure as it can before it's release, telivision or otherwise.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Pros...err... pro
We got some pretty neat turtle figures that are COMPLETELY different than what was coming out before, which is always good. It keeps the line fresh, rather than getting the same figure over and over with different gear and accessories.

Cons
I don't like how they're targeting the littlest of kids. I mean wasn't that the reason why everyone liked the 2k3 toon more than the old one... that it was more "mature"? That was the sole purpose of relaunching the series in my mind, to give the turtles a bit more street cred. Then they go and make it worse and more kiddy than ever before. This new show is much worse than the old 80's one. The old one was a trendsetter, with great HUMOR writing. Though it was about action as well, it was about humor first and foremost, which made it appealing to lots of people of any age (though I'm sure adults got sick of it). The new show is about action first and foremost, but it's downplayed and dumbed for a smaller age audience. What they forgot is that kids aren't dumb. They try adding humor but it just comes out so contrived and forced. And rather than creating trends, they kind of follow all the most pop culture pandering. The biggest problem I have is that awful theme song, sounds like something stolen out of Nickelodeon (tween central). Like I should start skateboarding and hanging out in the mall wearing clothes too tight that don't fit and feel extremely self conscious.

Most of all though, is that it kind of tarnishes my view of Laird. I mean I respect the man truly, great guy, but he did sell out in the 80's and 90's, and those are more his words than mine. He admitted in interviews or letter columns that the old toon isn't what he wanted and that they gave the studios lots of leeway. Then he goes and makes this new show that seems more based on his visions, only to be transformed into the ultimate whore of his franchise that is fast forward. It just proves that turtles are commercialistic first and artistic second (if at all). Doesn't he have enough money as it is? If they were just going to trash what he worked hard to do with the 2k3 show, why not just cancel it altogether? He obviously despises the old cartoon, but then turns around and one ups it. Just seems hypocritical.

I apologize if I offend anyone.

I don't know what to say, you bring up alot of good points. I'm sure Laird might have considered ending the show, but with the movie coming out, it would be a really bad idea.

As much as I dislike the old show, I have to give it credit for appealing to a wide audience. But FF(even 2K3) will never have that same appeal no matter how much 4 Kids tries. FF's humor comes from childish slapstick stuff, not on the same level as the 80's show. The art style is painful to the eyes, and worst of all they changed the overall tone to something it's not.

I would rather the show ended after the Ninja Tribunal arc, rather than go into Fast Foward. No matter how good the toys are, it doesn't make up for the shows simplicity.

Like I should start skateboarding and hanging out in the mall wearing clothes too tight that don't fit and feel extremely self conscious.

Those words just summed up my feelings perfectly.

[VaughnMichael]

Pros...err... pro
We got some pretty neat turtle figures that are COMPLETELY different than what was coming out before, which is always good. It keeps the line fresh, rather than getting the same figure over and over with different gear and accessories.
Cons
I don't like how they're targeting the littlest of kids. I mean wasn't that the reason why everyone liked the 2k3 toon more than the old one... that it was more "mature"? That was the sole purpose of relaunching the series in my mind, to give the turtles a bit more street cred. Then they go and make it worse and more kiddy than ever before. This new show is much worse than the old 80's one. The old one was a trendsetter, with great HUMOR writing. Though it was about action as well, it was about humor first and foremost, which made it appealing to lots of people of any age (though I'm sure adults got sick of it). The new show is about action first and foremost, but it's downplayed and dumbed for a smaller age audience. What they forgot is that kids aren't dumb. They try adding humor but it just comes out so contrived and forced. And rather than creating trends, they kind of follow all the most pop culture pandering. The biggest problem I have is that awful theme song, sounds like something stolen out of Nickelodeon (tween central). Like I should start skateboarding and hanging out in the mall wearing clothes too tight that don't fit and feel extremely self conscious.
Most of all though, is that it kind of tarnishes my view of Laird. I mean I respect the man truly, great guy, but he did sell out in the 80's and 90's, and those are more his words than mine. He admitted in interviews or letter columns that the old toon isn't what he wanted and that they gave the studios lots of leeway. Then he goes and makes this new show that seems more based on his visions, only to be transformed into the ultimate whore of his franchise that is fast forward. It just proves that turtles are commercialistic first and artistic second (if at all). Doesn't he have enough money as it is? If they were just going to trash what he worked hard to do with the 2k3 show, why not just cancel it altogether? He obviously despises the old cartoon, but then turns around and one ups it. Just seems hypocritical.
I apologize if I offend anyone.
AGGHHH!! RAWR gurggle burgle! (is that better Zarius? haha:lol:) just playing.
Yea I'll give them that much the new toys are looking to be pretty cool.
I don't know either I know kids watched the 2003 show but not as much as older people did...and even then I've been told from allot of random people that they thought the 2003 was a bit boring. Me I loved it and I still do more than the new show. I love the 80's toon but I honestly like 2003 allot more Next mutation being my least fave version of the TMNT.
I agree 100% about the things you've said I can not stand the new theme song but I also disliked the 2003 one very much also...it's just a point of not knowing what to write as a song or getting anyone good to sing it I think.
I kind of feel the same way about liard to be honest....he told me in a letter in the comics that he didn't like the 80's toon so much because the 2003 one is exactly what he always wanted...thats why this leads me to believe something is up...like it's not him or he's only doing this untill the time is up with fox so he can take the guys to another network like I've said before.
But who knows these are all guesses.You haven't offended me one bit btw ;)
Pete does'nt hate the original cartoon at all, he's stated that fifty times in the letters pages, he was eternally grateful for it putting the franchise on the map, he did'nt agree with all of it, but he does have affection for the show, there is no doubt the old show inspired him to make Saki Ch'rell the Utrom (Influenced by Krang and the ARCHIE comics), and many of the present show's later in-jokes all reference that particular series, and not even in an insulting manner either.
"Everyone liked the new toon more than the...", what fandom are you listening to? This fandom does'nt ALL think the new show is better than the original, hell I think this version has always been inferior despite being just as good.
Pete had to bend the franchise to save it, he had to comprehend his values in the 1980's to get it noticed also, that is not selling out, that's called making drastic buisness decisions, especially when the movie needs as much exposure as it can before it's release, telivision or otherwise.
Yea Peter never said he hated it I don't know where people get that from.
Ok though see you say that those of us who even some what like Fast Forward are called sellouts for liking it...but Peter isn't for doing what he needed to do. He really didn't need to do this...and oddly enough I think the movie will do really well even without a show on tv people all over seem to be pretty hyped about it! :)

[ZariusTwo]

And the sad part is that we know the team can do better. Batman Beyond, Aeon Flux, THAT is what FF should be influnced by, not this product placement.

Although looking on Batman Beyond's second season, that was also heavily tampered with and it became tremedously stand alone, Derik Powers/Blight vanished after one season, never to appear again, and Terry got this annoying teen sidekick. Thank god the third season's arc involving Terry's war with Kobra saved that show before the shark jumped

[VaughnMichael]

And the sad part is that we know the team can do better. Batman Beyond, Aeon Flux, THAT is what FF should be influnced by, not this product placement.
Although looking on Batman Beyond's second season, that was also heavily tampered with and it became tremedously stand alone, Derik Powers/Blight vanished after one season, never to appear again, and Terry got this annoying teen sidekick. Thank god the third season's arc involving Terry's war with Kobra saved that show before the shark jumped
That would be awsome I would actully like to see some of TMNT volume 4 animated but some people may find it to be a bit boring...namely fox.
I'm still really thinking that Laird should just do something like start a real Mirage studios...he's taken chances in the past why not now...he could start an entire production team and have an in house animation studio, start printing other comic books, and bringing out direct to dvd shows.

[Jo Dawn]

"A certain logical standpoint" is pretty general. and the fact that you're "demanding" people to have this "certain logical standpoint" is what pretty much sums up what Putrescent said "I can't even post what I think of something without the fear of being flamed for what I think or being told to think like everyone else, or that I'm a bad fan or lowering my standards."

Are ya reading this Jo?

I certainly am, but I'm confused as to why it pertains to me.

I'll voice my opinion, but I have never once... never EVER called anyone stupid for their opinion. I've never flamed anyone, or have I said anyone was a 'bad fan' for liking FF.

Like Jester said (and thank you Jester) he and I debated this. He likes it, I don't. We both respect the other's opinions on it, and that's it. He' not trying to make me like it, and I don't try and make him hate it. It's ONLY a cartoon, for goodness sakes. There's so much more that's important in this world than that.

So, to that end, I am confused. Unless you just wanted me to see it...? :-?

[GK Punk]

Maybe it was a pick up line?

[Ultimate Shredder]

Fast Forward is okay, but not as awsome as the other seasons.

[PizzaPower]

wanna KNOW sometime really weird everybody?!?!?!?!?!?!

Back when we had NOOOOOOOO Turtles on tv and the new 2k3 turtles came on we WHERE ALL HAPPY just to SEE the TURTLES on TV again!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets pretend like TMNT: Fast Forward is like that!!! Because what if it was Fast Foward that was the tmnt toon we got if we did not see the turtles on tv???? We would all be pretty DAMN HAPPY!!!!
:)

I'm done.

[BigApple3AM]

Maybe hate is a strong word, and of course he respects the old toon it made him millions, maybe I should have said Laird didn't like the content and direction of the old toon as it wasn't projecting his own. That's why he made the new cartoon, but ended up forfeiting what he wanted for more of a commercialistic endeavor.

Let me say this though, anyone who likes FF isn't a sellout, you're more like loyal fans (something I used to be). But Laird is definitely a sellout, and who can blame him? 99.9% of the world would have sold their characters to cartoons and toys, especially if they were a starving artist like Laird and Eastman were at the time. Still if you're familiar with comics, there still are people who prefer artistic to commercialistic, namely guys like Alan Moore (watchment, V for Vendetta), Dave Sim (cerebus), and I remember reading an online interview with the guys at fantagraphics that bashed turtles for selling out.

(Before someone says Alan Moore sold out by making movies, those weren't his, DC contracted those movies, Moore supposedly hates them, even though I think V was okay, League did suck.)

Of course I could give a crap what all three of those guys think, as long as the quality of what the turtles are doing on tv doesn't slump. Maybe I'm just way too old for FF now. I mean I accepted the whole dregg thing back in the day. But I think I just liked the old toon a lot more, because even when it tried to get edgy (red sky) it still was light humor fun to me, and I've always kind of preferred that to straight on action.

Also - I completely love the old cartoon. No old toon bashing, I'm really glad it put turtles on the map. I think the movie was better though (in retrospect).

And to answer PizzaPower - Yeah if this was brand new I probably WOULD like it, but I've learned my lesson already. Since Image canned the turtle comic, there was NOTHING for turtles at all, except a handful of figures left at KBtoys. So around 98 or 99-2003 I lived turtle-less, and I really missed them. But what I missed wasn't the turtles in general as I thought, but rather my own turtles that I'd known for so long. It took a few years of being bombarded with new turtle products that I couldn't keep up with, to actually miss the years that I missed the turtles where finding a turtle product was like walking into a goldmine and every turtle refrence was a complete pleasure and surprise.

You don't know how much you miss something, until it's gone.

[ZariusTwo]

Maybe hate is a strong word, and of course he respects the old toon it made him millions, maybe I should have said Laird didn't like the content and direction of the old toon as it wasn't projecting his own. That's why he made the new cartoon, but ended up forfeiting what he wanted for more of a commercialistic endeavor.

Let me say this though, anyone who likes FF isn't a sellout, you're more like loyal fans (something I used to be). But Laird is definitely a sellout, and who can blame him?.

Pete is not a sell-out. Sell-outs would've kept Venus Demilo in continuity. He did what he did to keep the show alive, and get it noticed, had merchandise not been down he would'nt have resorted to putting them in the future and cheapening it. The movie needs all of the exposure it can get, look at the bigger picture, otherwise stop labelling a guy in a tight posistion as a "sell out", you seem to have little to no clue about how a franchise is run.

DID they do it the wrong way? Yes, did they sell out? No.

(Before someone says Alan Moore sold out by making movies, those weren't his, DC contracted those movies, Moore supposedly hates them, even though I think V was okay, League did suck.)

Moore apporved of the upcoming Watchmen movie's script, even if he prefers David Hayter's aborted version, but he refuses to watch it because "Watchmen is'nt supposed to be a Movie, it's a comic"

[PizzaPower]

Ectocooler, you have never spoken truer words!!!

[Nexxorcist]

Maybe it was a pick up line?

puleeeezz. why would i try and pick up Jo when we all know you're the hotter one i'm tryin to pick up. ;)

[Ecto Jedi]

puleeeezz. why would i try and pick up Jo when we all know you're the hotter one i'm tryin to pick up. ;)

Wow. For a new member, you certainly aren't shy. :lol:

[BigApple3AM]

Pete is not a sell-out. Sell-outs would've kept Venus Demilo in continuity. He did what he did to keep the show alive, and get it noticed, had merchandise not been down he would'nt have resorted to putting them in the future and cheapening it. The movie needs all of the exposure it can get, look at the bigger picture, otherwise stop labelling a guy in a tight posistion as a "sell out", you seem to have little to no clue about how a franchise is run.

DID they do it the wrong way? Yes, did they sell out? No.



Moore apporved of the upcoming Watchmen movie's script, even if he prefers David Hayter's aborted version, but he refuses to watch it because "Watchmen is'nt supposed to be a Movie, it's a comic"

I do have an idea on how to run a franchise, and as I grow older I realize how unethical it can be sometimes. Still my whole point, which seems to elude you, was that having it as a franchise in the first place was selling out. If they were true to what they started, we'd have Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles issue #100-something right about now.

Still, like I said before, I don't blame him for giving up the comic (they stopped at what, like issue 10 before handing it over?) or making millions. Selling out doesn't need to have a negative connotation.

And watchmen movie? I never thought it would happen.

[Jo Dawn]

puleeeezz. why would i try and pick up Jo when we all know you're the hotter one i'm tryin to pick up. ;)

Wow. For a new member, you certainly aren't shy.

Hahaha... I like you already. ;) :P

[Tora_Chan]

I have only seen the first two episodes of Fast Forward, so my opinion is based on that, but I highly doubt the third one would change my mind much.

Anyway, while I don't hate Fast Forward, I'm definitly not happy with it either.

Animation: I don't get where everybody is seeing anime vibes, no one has big eyes or sweatdrops or any other typical things from animes. It's still a far cry from Teen Titans (which I actually like). But still, it looks so flat and liveless now, the 2k3 toon was much better at shading and creating visual depth. The colors were more vibrant and everything was much more detailed (just looks at the turtles' shells).

Characters: Splinter is being downplayed a lot and seems to be reduced to some comic relief character. I also miss the rest of the old cast. I want April, Casey, Karai, Leaterhead, the Fugitoid and all the others. Not some kid that is only there so the target group of the show can project themselves in his place. And Starla (?) smells like love interest for Cody and required female for the girls that might watch and so no one can complain that they lack female characters. The whole "Look at me, I'm smart, cute and have rollerblades" really put me off the charcter. And Cody is shaping up to be a big Gary Stu.:dead:

Plot: Well, I can't say much about it now since the series just started, but the whole "Darius the evil uncle" storyline doesn't exactly put me at the edge of my seat. I expect some "shocking" revelation for Cody complete with "How could you? I trusted you!" Booooring. :sleep: Hopefully this 'Dark TMNT' thing people keep talking about turns out better.

In conclusion, I'll give it a chance, but I'm neither thrilled right now nor do I'll get my hopes up too high.

[Ryona]

Ok, I don't really post in the Technodrome anymore, but I just had to post this...

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1441/tmntmistakeskk4.gif (http://imageshack.us)


Further more, TMNT (2003 series) OWNS FastForward in every way, not to mention that FastForward may possibly be the worst TMNT incarnation ever.

[PizzaPower]

what "dark tmnt" thing??

[VaughnMichael]

what "dark tmnt" thing??
the 4 evil tmnt clones...:)

[R-iZZy]

Ok, I don't really post in the Technodrome anymore, but I just had to post this...

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1441/tmntmistakeskk4.gif (http://imageshack.us)
LLLLLMMMMMMFFFFFAAAAAOOOOOO!!! Goodness gracious, almighty!

Talk about totally rejecting an idea.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Ok, I don't really post in the Technodrome anymore, but I just had to post this...

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1441/tmntmistakeskk4.gif (http://imageshack.us)


Further more, TMNT (2003 series) OWNS FastForward in every way, not to mention that FastForward may possibly be the worst TMNT incarnation ever.

That was awesome.

[Nexxorcist]

Hahaha... I like you already. ;) :P

fallin in love with so soon? but we just met. ;)

[PizzaPower]

the 4 evil tmnt clones...:)
what 4 evil tmnt clones? lol :)

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I have only seen the first two episodes of Fast Forward, so my opinion is based on that, but I highly doubt the third one would change my mind much.

Anyway, while I don't hate Fast Forward, I'm definitly not happy with it either.

Animation: I don't get where everybody is seeing anime vibes, no one has big eyes or sweatdrops or any other typical things from animes. It's still a far cry from Teen Titans (which I actually like). But still, it looks so flat and liveless now, the 2k3 toon was much better at shading and creating visual depth. The colors were more vibrant and everything was much more detailed (just looks at the turtles' shells).

Characters: Splinter is being downplayed a lot and seems to be reduced to some comic relief character. I also miss the rest of the old cast. I want April, Casey, Karai, Leaterhead, the Fugitoid and all the others. Not some kid that is only there so the target group of the show can project themselves in his place. And Starla (?) smells like love interest for Cody and required female for the girls that might watch and so no one can complain that they lack female characters. The whole "Look at me, I'm smart, cute and have rollerblades" really put me off the charcter. And Cody is shaping up to be a big Gary Stu.:dead:

Plot: Well, I can't say much about it now since the series just started, but the whole "Darius the evil uncle" storyline doesn't exactly put me at the edge of my seat. I expect some "shocking" revelation for Cody complete with "How could you? I trusted you!" Booooring. :sleep: Hopefully this 'Dark TMNT' thing people keep talking about turns out better.

In conclusion, I'll give it a chance, but I'm neither thrilled right now nor do I'll get my hopes up too high.

Man, after watching the first 3 Lost Season episodes, I'm even more pissed off with Fast Foward. If anything, TLS can save the franchise.

[Ultimate Shredder]

Why will they ruin a great show with a cruddy show like fast Foward?!!

[Krangstein]

Why will they ruin a great show with a cruddy show like fast Foward?!!
Are you for real?? this page is full the same threads, over and over and over again....

[gobo]

Why will they ruin a great show with a cruddy show like fast Foward?!!Are you for real?? this page is full the same threads, over and over and over again....
Ease up. His nubity will wear off eventually... I hope. :)

[VaughnMichael]

what 4 evil tmnt clones? lol :)
http://members.aol.com/sharksgp/TMNTFFDESKTOP.jpg
These Would Be The Dark TMNT I made this today the normal desk top size one will be on the offial site soon hopefully. :)

[PizzaPower]

oh ****, are those gonna be in the new series?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[VaughnMichael]

oh ****, are those gonna be in the new series?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
yeppers :)

[Spitfire]

Don, Mike, Raph, and Leo in that order from left to right. But I could be wrong.

And let me add as cool as those guys may look they could easily be ruined by really bad voice acting. And by the looks of the Mikey clone he might be that annoying guy with the high pitch voice that shatters windows.

But with good voice acting they could be nothing shy of bad ass. Let's see how they pull it off those guys alone might save FF for me ^_^

[Quiller-Bee]

I wasn't too happy when I first learned of the direction in which the TMNT were heading with the whole "Fast Forward" thing. The whole time travel/hurled-into-the-future thing has been so overdone, it's not even funny, nor is the concept even remotely interesting anymore. In addition to the worn-out concept, I wasn't overly keen on the new look of the Turtles themselves. However, I decided that I'd be fair and wait until I'd actually watched a few episodes before forming a final opinion. After all, I've been wrong before, and things that I initially didn't like have grown on me more than once.

This isn't one of those times. After having seen the first three episodes aired on Fox, my fears proved to be more than valid, and I can now say that I'm officially finished with the current Turtles cartoon. The boys seem a bit out of character, their tech gear and weapons have not grown on me (quite the opposite, in fact), and I literally despise the trite, retreaded, caricatures of cliches that are Cody Jones and Serling. Furthermore, the remaining supporting characters don't fare much better in my book. In the final analysis, this show seems to lack the very essence of the TMNT. It certainly lacks the various aspects of the TMNT that makes the property interesting to me.

Meanwhile, I refuse to watch any series in a vain effort to keep it on the air in at least some form. First of all, my time's too precious, and I'm far too busy a person to waste my time in such a manner. I won't be a slave to a property that has lost its luster. Sometimes you have to let things go, sometimes you have to let them die. I'd rather see a beloved series close with some dignity than end as a pale shadow of its former self, no more than a joke to even its most loyal fans. I love the TMNT, and I simply cannot support this drivel--and I will not. I'll buy the Lost Season DVD when it's released, and that'll stand as the final chapter of the series for me.

It's a shame to see it end this way, really. The TMNT 2K3 show started off so strongly. Sure, it had it's setbacks (Utrom Shredder), but all in all, I thoroughly enjoyed and loved the show. The FF season, I'm afraid, will be the last for this current cartoon incarnation of the TMNT. File this one behind "The Next Mutation."

[PizzaPower]

yeppers :)
it looks good.

[VaughnMichael]

it looks good.
thanks I spent all day working on that :)

[Ecto Jedi]

thanks I spent all day working on that :)

I concur -- good job Putrescent! :D

[VaughnMichael]

I concur -- good job Putrescent! :D
thanks I'm sure thats more to what everyone would like Fast Forward to look like lol but I'm still saying give it till the end of the season to see the direction it goes..*shrug*

[Quiller-Bee]

I'd definitely like it better. Nice work. I'm sure it's a matter of first exposure/first impression as much as it is personal preference, but I've always preferred TMNT with a fair amount of darkness in the story.

My first introduction to the Turtles was by way of the original Mirage series. To a young kid my age, it blew my socks off to see that comic books could be that intense. At that early point in my life (seven or eight years old, thereabout), the "grim and gritty" Mirage book seemed both mature and hardcore to me. And I ate it up. With that being my introduction to the Turtles, their Mirage incarnation has always been my defining idea of what the they were, as well as the version that I've always enjoyed the most.

With that being the case, I never really enjoyed the lighter approaches to the Turtles, regardless of the medium in which it was presented. For me personally--and I'm not trying to be negative here, just expressing things from my personal viewpoint--anything lacking that darker element was missing one of the core, essential ingredients to what made the Turtles appealing to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's almost like taking the chocolate chips out of chocolate chip cookies and trying to like them if the chocolate chips are your favorite part of the cookies to begin with.

My opinion about change is this: things are going to change, whether any of us like it or not. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not. I'm perfectly fine with--and am open to--change, and the idea of it. I certainly don't want things to become repetitive, stale, and stagnant. However, things do sometimes change in a manner that I'm not particularly fond of. It's happened to us all in some aspect, at some point in our lives. Anyone who disagrees, I'm afraid, is almost certainly being less than honest.

For those that truly like Fast Forward, I have no problem with that whatsoever. (Not that anyone's been losing sleep over whether I have a problem with it or not.) In fact, I'm a bit envious of you, as I wish that I could enjoy FF. However, I can't lie to myself. I gave it a fair chance, and hoped to like it. In the end, however, it just didn't work out for me.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I'd definitely like it better. Nice work. I'm sure it's a matter of first exposure/first impression as much as it is personal preference, but I've always preferred TMNT with a fair amount of darkness in the story.

My first introduction to the Turtles was by way of the original Mirage series. To a young kid my age, it blew my socks off to see that comic books could be that intense. At that early point in my life (seven or eight years old, thereabout), the "grim and gritty" Mirage book seemed both mature and hardcore to me. And I ate it up. With that being my introduction to the Turtles, their Mirage incarnation has always been my defining idea of what the they were, as well as the version that I've always enjoyed the most.

With that being the case, I never really enjoyed the lighter approaches to the Turtles, regardless of the medium in which it was presented. For me personally--and I'm not trying to be negative here, just expressing things from my personal viewpoint--anything lacking that darker element was missing one of the core, essential ingredients to what made the Turtles appealing to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's almost like taking the chocolate chips out of chocolate chip cookies and trying to like them if the chocolate chips are your favorite part of the cookies to begin with.

My opinion about change is this: things are going to change, whether any of us like it or not. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not. I'm perfectly fine with--and am open to--change, and the idea of it. I certainly don't want things to become repetitive, stale, and stagnant. However, things do sometimes change in a manner that I'm not particularly fond of. It's happened to us all in some aspect, at some point in our lives. Anyone who disagrees, I'm afraid, is almost certainly being less than honest.

For those that truly like Fast Forward, I have no problem with that whatsoever. (Not that anyone's been losing sleep over whether I have a problem with it or not.) In fact, I'm a bit envious of you, as I wish that I could enjoy FF. However, I can't lie to myself. I gave it a fair chance, and hoped to like it. In the end, however, it just didn't work out for me.

In a way were somewhat alike. My first intro to the TMNT was the 1987 show, but as I learned more and more about the TMNT comic, the more I just became so distant from the old show, now it's just hard for me to watch it and not complain.

I too think a dark core to the show is essential, but it needs some lighter stuff to balance it out, but I think FF is pushing it.

Theres just no way I can like the show, especially since weve had 4 great seasons before it, and this change comes out of nowhere. I know if this show came out in 1990, I would enjoy it, but right now both the animation buff in me, and the TMNT buff in me, just cant stand it.

[ZariusTwo]

In a way were somewhat alike. My first intro to the TMNT was the 1987 show, but as I learned more and more about the TMNT comic, the more I just became so distant from the old show, now it's just hard for me to watch it and not complain.

Then why are you treating it like it should be the same as the comics? Just watch it as a different series and it's far superior

[zkarlette]

I dont "hate" FF , but I do hate the fact of not being able to watch the rest of the other episodes which I really loved, when I watch FF I just think of it as a total different show, sadly I think it was a wrong move that really made no sense an probably wont make the ratings go higher .

I wonder if 4 kids make the hole show and storyline change cause of that Ep that they didnt want to air and thought that the story was going to far with the content ...

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Then why are you treating it like it should be the same as the comics? Just watch it as a different series and it's far superior

Thats the thing, I accept the fact that theyre entirley diffrent. It's just that the bad animation and repetiveness of the writting keep me from really enjoying the show like I once did. And I hate feeling that way.

[Mandi-chan]

Then why are you treating it like it should be the same as the comics? Just watch it as a different series and it's far superior

I'm sorry, I don't want to start an argument but I have to say something.

Why, Zarius, do you always get in people's faces when they show even the slightest dislike of the old toon?

And why do you always have to shove your opinion of the old toon being "far superior" to everything else (including the comics apparently...) down everyone's throats?

It's kinda tiresome, I know it's your opinion...but it is irritating sometimes. Especially when you can't seem to accept or respect anyone else's opinions but your own.

Again, I don't want to argue. Arguing with you is not fun!

I just wanted to know, why?

[lilonardo]

My ex-roommate at college told me that the reason why he stopped watching "Rugrats" is because the Rugrats themselves have now grown up to be school aged children.
How did I respond? "well, under these circumstances, you are not going to like "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Fast Foward" , in which the Turtles get taken 99 years into the future, they will be wearing futuristic armor, Leo's katana blades will look a bit more like Star Wars lightsabers and all" .
After hearing from me about Turtles Fast Foward, he was horrified

[PizzaPower]

so the evil turtlesa are gonna be in ff?

[Ecto Jedi]

so the evil turtlesa are gonna be in ff?

Yep, and it promises to be the high point of the season thus far. :D

[Drtooth]

Given the fact that I think 3 episodes is enough to get down the tone of a series (I watch 2 or 3 episodes of something to decide if I like it or not... that is if I can tolerate 1 episode) I am still on the fence about it. The It's Ninja Time doesn't phase me as much as the rest of the fans... it's definately reminisent of the old series, and it seems like it'll get on my nerves at some point.

The things that REALLY bother me are the new characters. It's a getting used to type thing, I know... but I don't particularly like Cody. Serling is annoying sometimes, kinda funny others, BIggles would be a funnier bit if it were a one time thing (at least the name is a reference to Monty Python... I guess... that's one good thing). Not to mention the loss of the older series characters. The fact Casey is missing really bums me out.

And, I gotta say, I do like the animation of the entire 2003 series. Bit stiff, but no where near as wonky as some episodes of the old series. I mean, I can forgive them for having to paint on cels... that's hell. Even digital coloring takes some time, unless you know short cuts and can get them to work. AS long as nothing looks like the Super Mario 3 cartoon... talk about poor quality animation.

And I do like the references to Bebop and the Cowboys of Moo MEsa... the last one alone makes me want the DVD... and I taped it. If they can still give nods to fans, I think it's okay. No where near as edgy as the original 2003 version. but it's okay.

the toys, however... Excellent! I plan on picking up at least the Splinter. Much better than that first one with that sad little cloth robe.

[ZariusTwo]

I just wanted to know, why?


I was'nt ramming anything down anyone's throats, I was asking a question, ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael answered it, and whilst I think it's sad certain people can't enjoy the old toon because of what the late 1980's and 1990's brought to the plate with animated series, story arcs, developed characters etc, I can understand it.

Am I any different from the frauds that pass themselves off as critics at the hive of s*it known as Toon Zone? Except that I can enjoy every aspect of animation whilst they cannot and would prefer to tell animation fans, both future and real ones, to stay away from Dastardly and Mutley and M.A.S.K? Those W.B humping corporate boneheads are content to disrespect the past accomplishments of shows that paved the way for the material they idolise and cream over now and they show NO respect in ANY sense.

And since I know you're a member of the forum community, I am NOT referring to that, but the idiots who do the reviews, Dessler, Zeus, Wilson, those fakes.

I'm not calling you, or ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael a "fraud" either for not being able to see the old toon as anything on par with the new series, but it does'nt hurt for these fans to be better persuaded to give these versions a chance, if it's not what suits their preferences, that's fine, but to state the old toon was completly repetitive is only half-true and it has just as many redeeming qualities, and the "bad animation" excuse is a little tired because the animation in the new series has always sucked

My ex-roommate at college told me that the reason why he stopped watching "Rugrats" is because the Rugrats themselves have now grown up to be school aged children.

That series is actually the evolution the show needed and it did it in precisly the right way. I for one wanted to see something move on and expand the characters, heck the Rugrats franchise ended with the second movie as far as I was concerned, it wrapped up the only other character arc left, Chuckie's

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I was'nt ramming anything down anyone's throats, I was asking a question, ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael answered it, and whilst I think it's sad certain people can't enjoy the old toon because of what the late 1980's and 1990's brought to the plate with animated series, story arcs, developed characters etc, I can understand it.

Am I any different from the frauds that pass themselves off as critics at the hive of s*it known as Toon Zone? Except that I can enjoy every aspect of animation whilst they cannot and would prefer to tell animation fans, both future and real ones, to stay away from Dastardly and Mutley and M.A.S.K? Those W.B humping corporate boneheads are content to disrespect the past accomplishments of shows that paved the way for the material they idolise and cream over now and they show NO respect in ANY sense.

And since I know you're a member of the forum community, I am NOT referring to that, but the idiots who do the reviews, Dessler, Zeus, Wilson, those fakes.

I'm not calling you, or ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael a "fraud" either for not being able to see the old toon as anything on par with the new series, but it does'nt hurt for these fans to be better persuaded to give these versions a chance, if it's not what suits their preferences, that's fine, but to state the old toon was completly repetitive is only half-true and it has just as many redeeming qualities, and the "bad animation" excuse is a little tired because the animation in the new series has always sucked



That series is actually the evolution the show needed and it did it in precisly the right way. I for one wanted to see something move on and expand the characters, heck the Rugrats franchise ended with the second movie as far as I was concerned, it wrapped up the only other character arc left, Chuckie's

The Rugrats died with the first movie, at least to me. All Grown Up is a sad way to try to milk every last bit out of the franchise. And it's horribly done at that.

And I respect the fact that you don't like ToonZone, but I find alot of what they have to say, very informing. Like me, theyr'e just animation buffs who look at cartoons with a critical eye rather than a nostalgic. And that's why I don't enjoy the old series anymore.

I got tired of the formulatic writting. Seasons 2 and 3 were prime examples. And the bad animation is a big factor, especially when it's so noticiable a blind man could see it.

But as much as it pains me to watch th eold show now, it pains me even more to pick it apart so I'm stopping as of this moment.

So back on topic, Fast Foward isn't gonna save the franchise. there is another and more logical way to do it, and sticking them in the future isn't it.

EDIT: And I don't konw what show your watching, but the new series animation has always been good.

[classictmnt3]

well i have only seen the first episode cuz its on too early but i love it maybe i should watch it more before a isay anyhitng but i like it

[ZariusTwo]

The Rugrats died with the first movie, at least to me. All Grown Up is a sad way to try to milk every last bit out of the franchise. And it's horribly done at that.

I was saying the same thing after the first season, then I stuck with it and found it rather enjoyable, the first movie is a pretty dark, underrated movie, and it prompted the second and third films to be lighter, sad really, the first was more beleivable.

And I respect the fact that you don't like ToonZone, but I find alot of what they have to say, very informing. Like me, theyr'e just animation buffs who look at cartoons with a critical eye rather than a nostalgic.

...Oh I understand that part of thier...SNORT..."criticism" quite easily, but there you have it, they always use that stupid "memory" attitude to call people who defend shows they openly thrash, with glee, "blind". There blind themselves, it's a sad day we have to live in such a ruthless division between animation preferences. That's not informative, that's slander and biased propoganda, and is'nt befitting true animation fans at all, I mean Stu can't type worth a lick and steals old content from Tvtome, but his reviews for the 1990's Spider-Man series, a series with bad animation and stilted fight scenes, look PAST that and see the great substance, yet that show became repetetitive in it's fourth season. See the hypocrisy they go through?

I still treat cartoons as just that...cartoons, not the second coming of the Tundra. They do. Granted there are members of their community I respect, and yes, every once in a while their brain cells are actually functioning and they can see past the "bad animation" and give a positive critical review of something like Thundercats, it comes slowly, but hey, what can ya do? :P

I'm just glad I can still enjoy cartoons there content to try and piss on, and as a result, I'm a better fan than they are, and I doubt I'm not the only one, communities like this who can easily say "I loved this old cartoon, I still love this modern cartoon", and I'm not talking remakes either, but general shows, are better fans than they are, all they do is cream over the modern, the new, and the current, and that's the saddest thing of all. No respect for the past...unless it's from Warner Bros, their little corporate sponsor.

I'd probably detest the site less if the moderation and review team were replaced, there the real enemy, with the snide bias, and the WB sucking up, not much of the forums who can actually find good in the old shows and have finally stopped listening to idiots like Wilson, I personally think if people like Desslar and Wilson can be slowly plucked from the ears of Applegate and Harris they'd be a far worthier site.


I got tired of the formulatic writting. Seasons 2 and 3 were prime examples. And the bad animation is a big factor[

It's not really, just for those wanting to find a flaw and avoid the old show. And season two was arc-driven, so were aspects of the third, those were the seasons I was referring to. Then there was season seven, then there was the red sky seasons etc...

So you see, and this is'nt an insult, you can pain yourself all you want, nothing you say, or what the fakes at TZ say, will ever be taken seriously about the old show because there's more than enough positives about the episodes with alleged "flaws" to counter the argument from fans who know the show better, because what Tool Zone won't tell you, is that the people who defend these shows do so FROM a critical view, and not just memory.

Besides, is'nt it a common opinion from the public that all critics are flipping idiots?:P

EDIT: And I don't konw what show your watching, but the new series animation has always been good.

...It's had some moments of concrete quality, but most of the time it's really not that good, it's not streamlined, but there's too much mass and there's no real expression or effort made with any of 'em besides Raph and Leo consistently, at least the original balanced expression.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I can understand why they don't give good reviews to alot of the shows of the past, because most of them sucked. The 80's in particular, that was a really bad period for cartoons.

Granted when your like 8 years old you don't mind because it's all you care about is seeing guys fighting with lasers and ****, but if your like me, who look for quality in cartoons, you try to go back and watch now[...]. It wasn't until shows like Batman TAS came along and proved cartoons can be more than just 30 minute toy comercials.

I'm sorry that I can't just blindly enjoy cartoons, crappy or not, like you anymore, but that's who I am. I someday hope to become a cartoonist, and I wan't to make the best cartoon I possibly can, and I've trained myself to be able to tell quality to crap, and I'm sure the guys at Toon Zone have too.

I respect the past, by past i mean the golden age stuff like the classic Tex Avery and Chuck Jones work. But theres some shows I can see that are bad and I don't just watch and enjoy just because they're old.

Go ahead and call yourself a better fan just because you don't look at cartoons the way we do, but don't call them idiots just because they gave a bad review to Thundercats or something.

But enough on that. I can respect that you and everyone here can still enjoy the old TMNT cartoon, but I can't anymore. I don't see it the way you do anymore. [...]

Finally, up untill Fast Foward, TMNT had some beautiful animation, some of the best on tv today. The episodes flowed smoothly, especially durring fight scenes, the animation was second only to JLU.

[Edit: See Rule #6.]

[Krang]

Nobody is forcing you to like the old cartoon, and you're welcome to discuss why you don't like it and to offer constructive criticism, but flat-out insulting it is considered bashing and is against the Forum Rules. I appreciate that you two have kept this discussion on-topic rather than resorting to attacking each other, though.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I wasn;t insulting it. The things I listed are all the reasons why I don't like it.

But if you can't see that, then I'm outta here. Screw this ****.

[Krang]

I'm not asking you to leave or to change your opinion. All I'm asking is for you to phrase your dislike of the old cartoon more politely to avoid starting arguments with people who still enjoy it.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Ohhh, so how about I try it like this.

*in fake british accent* The animation was quite sub par, the writting, not quite up to standards, the characters lacked a tad bit in the depth department, abd the episodes all felt similar in structure to each other.

Theres no polite way to say it. No matter how you word it, it means the same thing, and will still spark controversy with fans.

I'd rather not post than be censored.

[Krang]

Err... yes there is. Like I said, constructive criticism. Compare: "I didn't like the animation of the original cartoon because I thought it was too inconsistent" to "The animation in the old cartoon is CRAP!!! PURE CRAP!!!" You don't need to sport a monocle to offer an opinion as opposed to an accusation. :P

[GK Punk]

Take Jo Dawn for example. She has stated several times she prefers the new show ot the old, and she doesn't bash the old.

Or, in reverse, I prefer the old. That doesn't mean I need to say "The new one sucks".

[PizzaPower]

there both good in there own ways.

[Ecto Jedi]

Err... yes there is. Like I said, constructive criticism. Compare: "I didn't like the animation of the original cartoon because I thought it was too inconsistent" to "The animation in the old cartoon is CRAP!!! PURE CRAP!!!" You don't need to sport a monocle to offer an opinion as opposed to an accusation. :P

It doesn't seem to bother anyone when Fast Forward is talked about in this way though, does it? Funny how we go to great lengths to avoid offending fans of the old 'toon, but the new 'toon is pretty much up for grabs.

[Sewer Bull]

It doesn't seem to bother anyone when Fast Forward is talked about in this way though, does it? Funny how we go to great lengths to avoid offending fans of the old 'toon, but the new 'toon is pretty much up for grabs.

'Cause bashing the new toon is not against the rules, as they probably had been set up long before anyone even heard of TMNT 2k3.

I reckon this particular commandment should be reinforced now, tho'.

[ZariusTwo]

I can understand why they don't give good reviews to alot of the shows of the past, because most of them sucked. The 80's in particular, that was a really bad period for cartoons.

Have you ever seen the material that came out of the 1970's? TZ despise the 1980's because of the whole "corporate" aspect of why those cartoons existed, they don't think for ten minutes that those shows had quality, they just hate the fact they were told to buy toys through epic storylines like "The Key to Vector Sigma" and not see that story was excellent

Granted when your like 8 years old you don't mind because it's all you care about is seeing guys fighting with lasers and ****, but if your like me, who look for quality in cartoons, you try to go back and watch now[...]. It wasn't until shows like Batman TAS came along and proved cartoons can be more than just 30 minute toy comercials.

Oh please, that bandwagon died months ago, why are you still on it? The 1980's cartoons were toy commercials, but their story quality rose them ABOVE that, what TZ will only seldom ever grasp because there idiots is that those shows paved the way for Batman: TAS and the careers of Pual Dini and Bruce Timm, and Dini wrote some great material for He-Man and Ewoks at the time, Timm worked on She-Ra, it's this attitude that is as narrow-minded and ignorant as TZ have been for a long time.

I'm sorry that I can't just blindly enjoy cartoons, crappy or not, like you anymore, but that's who I am. I someday hope to become a cartoonist, and I wan't to make the best cartoon I possibly can, and I've trained myself to be able to tell quality to crap, and I'm sure the guys at Toon Zone have too.

Ok, it's obvious you hav'nt been paying attention to anything I just posted, people who defend the old show ARE'NT blind, that's why TZ sucks, they think we are, when it's the exact opposite, there's been plenty of s*it in Batman: TAS and Spider-Man, and those two are shows they IDOLISE, pot, kettle, black

You're not "training" yourself, you're blinding yourself, forcing yourself to box every 1980's cartoon in the same box and refusing to see the quality, I'm not asking you to see merit in Chuck Norris: Karate Kommandoes, but Thundercats, Centurions, and others? That's a different story, there all better written than most modern shows now, especially Xiolyn Showdown, Spongebob, and The Batman. That is'nt the first sign of an objective animation fan, or an objective animator at all.

Besides, what the hell do you think the animation NOW is any better? Objectivly speaking, Xiolyn Showdown, Spongebob, etc, are all animated poorly, I know plenty of animators and writers also who love the 80's cartoons and they have been responsible for some of the best shows, like Titans and JLU, and it is'nt just for the fun, but because the shows are well written, just check the comments on the He-Man box set, J. Micheal Strazenski, Paul Dini, more, all of those big names worked on it, and have something good to say (even DINI, who hates He-Man), TZ however sugercoat their involvement and snidley avoid it whenever their involvement is mentioned

Go ahead and call yourself a better fan just because you don't look at cartoons the way we do, but don't call them idiots just because they gave a bad review to Thundercats or something.

Heh heh "We do"...who controls the British crown? Who keeps the Metric system down? "WE DO", "WE DO"

Who bashes the past all night?

Who force feeds the masses s*ite?

"WE DO", "WE DO"

..God, the fact you're now putting yourself and TZ on a high horse that indicates you're better than objective and broad animation fans like the original series fanbase (you know, because we enjoy the original and the new series), speaks volumes over the one point TZ does'nt get, WE'RE ALL OBJECTIVE FLIPPING ANIMATION FANS, NO DIVISION, NO DISTINCTION, NO CATERGORIES. Stop treating us like we're incapable of that, you're just showing how superior "we" are, if you want to go that route.

...And that's proof you hav'nt read anything in my previous post, I stated that the Thundercats review was POSITIVE and stands as one of the few times I've ever appreciated their reviews, you think it's the only one? I've appreciated they also gave positive reviews fro Dangermouse, He-Man, and Count Duckula, all of which are 1980's cartoons, I've also come to like Ben Applegate on the sole reason he's the only TZ reviewer/admin there that likes Captain Planet.

I'll call them whatever I like, until they fire the review time their potential is eternally being squandered, and yeah, I AM a better fan

Anyway, Krang has a point, you're going against the rules and baiting people with original series bashing, even more so, you're baiting people with the TZ mentality of "we can look at shows objectivly", when that's laughable

I think I'll drop this little argument now, it's just too easy

'Cause bashing the new toon is not against the rules, as they probably had been set up long before anyone even heard of TMNT 2k3.

I reckon this particular commandment should be reinforced now, tho'.

Not to mention it's the execution of FF that everyone particulary dislikes, the premise had potential, especially when initially everyone was expecting an Aeon Flux calibure show and got....that, it's like Next Mutation, it uses live action, it uses the Turtle's subway lair, it uses Shredder breifly and then phases him out, but the idea of Venus and the execution again contributed to it's downfall.

[Drtooth]

there both good in there own ways.

The most intellegent thing I can hear is a compromise. Everyone is happy.

I came to admit when TMNT 2003 first surfaced, I loved far more than the old series. But after watching both of them again, I can safely say both shows have their ups and downs. Shell... if I didn't like the old series, why on earth would I watch the new one? I'd'a saved a load of sleep on Weekends, I'll tell you that.

We can take solice in the fact that both shows have a flaw of having occasional weak episodes. Season 4 of the new series had more than it's fair share at the beginning... especially since they ran it out of order, putting too many similar storylines together. A lot of Season 3+4 old episodes are forgettable... the Mutagen Monster comes to mind.

As for Fast Forward... well... if Kids like it, I'll be happy... but it needs a lot of work. I know the "dark, apocolyptic future" thing has run totally dry and cliche, but if they incorporated more of those elements, the show would be better. There's nothing wrong with mixing action and comedy. That's why I love shows like TMNT. I happen to think that a lot of the jokes are too light. I know the series has a lighter tone than the first 4 seasons, but if they could change a few things around... i.e. Biggles would've worked better as a one shot character, Serling has to be a little less uptight.

Other than that, the main problem I see as a fan is that they had to shove a tweenage boy into the show. Now, honestly I have taken children's writing courses, and the number one rule is that kids of any given age will love to see a character their age. That's why Elmo is so popular on Sesame Street (that's what I keep telling loud, obnoxious fans on another message board... they seem to have conceeded to that.) Looking through a kid's eyes, they can clearly imagine Cody is them. But as the "adult audience" view... the character is annoying, and seems like a ratings grab.


>>Have you ever seen the material that came out of the 1970's? TZ despise the 1980's because of the whole "corporate" aspect of why those cartoons existed, they don't think for ten minutes that those shows had quality, they just hate the fact they were told to buy toys through epic storylines like "The Key to Vector Sigma" and not see that story was excellent<<

I'll meet you half way. First off, let me congratulate you on being someone who FINALLY understands how overrated and awful cartoons from the 70's are. Fat Albert was great, and I liked Hong Kong Phooey... but look at the crap they had back then. Innumerable Scooby DOo knock offs... Crappy cartoons based on, or ripped off from sitcoms... Innumerable Archies and Banana Splits knock offs.... most from Hanna Barbera themselves.

Personally, I do not like the idea of making cartoons out of toy lines. It takes animation away from hungry, unemployed animators like me. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean they can't still be enjoyable. Transformers and GI Joe are the pinnacle of our generation. We reference it, we wear Autobot logo T-shirts, we look disappointedly at the quality of the toys when kids play with them, and talk about "Back in my day we had some REAL Transformer toys." If I were to blindly axe off any cartoon show that was made to promote a toy line, I'd have to cut off all the video game based cartoons as well, and there are just so many I like. Earthworm Jim and Super Mario made up my childhood (well... EWJ was my teen hood, but you get the message) Even TMNT. The cartoon was made because Playmates was interrested in a toy line.

WHat I feel made cartoons bad in the 80's was the non-stop pestering from parental groups to keep cartoons from being violent and relatable on some level. Looking at the strides we made with the new TMNT, I could hardly imagine that scale of violence on the old series. Plus, I didn't care too much for cutesy wootsy stuff like Strawberry Shortcake, but that's another story.

[ZariusTwo]

WHat I feel made cartoons bad in the 80's was the non-stop pestering from parental groups to keep cartoons from being violent and relatable on some level. Looking at the strides we made with the new TMNT, I could hardly imagine that scale of violence on the old series. Plus, I didn't care too much for cutesy wootsy stuff like Strawberry Shortcake, but that's another story.

Yup, thank god for syndication. Galaxy Rangers and G1 season three were safe from the parental hounds after that, although G1 suffered in terms of animation for it, I don't know where the budget went after the first two seasons, probably was all used for the movie, but the storylines were tremendously darker.

Yes, some video game cartoons are worth it (Captain N, Sonic Satam, Super Mario Bros) some are'nt (I'll say this, Japan are the Uwe Boll of the video game adaptation market, with crap like Sonic X and Megaman NT)

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

What do you want Zarius? Do want me to apologize? Do you want me to say your right, and that I was an idiot? Keep waiting. I stand by every last word I said.

Lemme just set the record strait, while I think the 80's produced some of the worst cartoons in tv history and some of the worst characters (Scrappy Doo, Spike Witchit, Snarf, Orko, that annoying white kid from the Mr T cartoon), it also churned out some good ones. Some of my favorites, Gummi Bears, Pup named Scooby Doo, Transformers, Ducktales, hell, Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers is one of my favorite cartoons of all time. I also know the 70's had it's share of crap. Clue Club, Captain Caveman and the Teen Angels, the crappy show with the goop that shapeshifted, I forgot the name.

Don't think I don't know cartoons, I wathc nothing but them. Also, yes I think alot of shows today beat out alot of shows back then. Filmore, Kim Possible, Naruto, Fosters, JLU, Teen Titans, TMNT, all of them I'm not afraid to say beat the hell out of shows like Thundercats and Centurians. Because all those action shows from the 80's had potential, but never built upon it.

Also, learn how to spell XIAOLIN before you bash the damn show.

I don't think I'm a better fan than you, I never said that, you were just putting words in my mouth. Your the one who condisers himself so damn superior that you have to lash out at everyone who has a diffrent opinion than you. I have nothing against fans of the old show, if I did, I wouldn't be on these forums. Look, you got right on ahead and keep loving shows of the 80's, I'm not losing sleep because of it, but don't go calling them idiots just because they don't see thme the way you do.

And yeah, I said all those things about the old show and I meant it all. I don't sugercoat things, I'm just stating it plain and simple, just I wont sugercoat this, youre a douche, plain and simple.

[Ecto Jedi]

I don't sugercoat things, I'm just stating it plain and simple, just I wont sugercoat this, youre a douche, plain and simple.

'Glad one of us finally said it. :)

[Jo Dawn]

C'mon fellas. Stop bashing each other or I have to lock this...

[Krang]

Okay, that's enough. Some of you need to step back and realize that these are just cartoons. Quit taking them so seriously and getting so worked up over them.

Edit: Oops, bad timing! Thanks, Jo, but I already locked it...