The Future of TMNT.

[agent 007]

Hey guys! I'm new to these boards, but I sure as heck aint new to TMNT. I was thinking, I haven't seen FF yet because I missed the last 3 eps, but I'm downloading them and can watch em tommorow, but I was thinking... if you're a fan of TMNT, we've had 102 great episodes before FF... my thought is, we watched the show and loved it for all of those episodes, so what if they have a few bad ones? We should still continue to watch it and support it for the hope of newer and better episodes... I'm just saying, if you've supported a show for this long, why give up on it when it suddenly has some episodes you don't like? Am I the only one that feels this way?

[Buslady]

Wait until you see how bad FF is. It's pretty corny when you get Raph spouting "It's ninja time!"

[Katie]

welcome 007 :)

I think it's not that people are unwilling to support the franchise...all the bad feelings you keep seeing rehashed all around are because of the abrupt change in format. Those that liked the new toon were shocked that they would change something that seemed so nice...IMHO

[agent 007]

Thanks for the welcome... as for seeing how it looks, I'll just have to wait and see. I'll still continue to watch it, though. Does anyone know why they made this sudden change?

[Katie]

ratings.

The ratings on the show were slipping...they wanted to try and target the younger crowd

[agent 007]

I see... is it still the same animators and what have you working on it? Or is it a new group? I honestly can't see why ratings were slipping, I enjoyed it a lot. And I don't think the answer is to target either young people (5-10) or teens to adults specifically... I think they need to go somewhere in between, but that's just my oppinion.

[Katie]

it's the same group....they just have different censors/network folks giving them guidance.

I thought it was great too....just....probably over teh kids heads, which is why the ratings were slipping. Gotta make those dollars in the end, after all.

[Quiller-Bee]

ratings.

The ratings on the show were slipping...they wanted to try and target the younger crowd

...and will probably lose the viewers they did have as a result.

Feel free to support it you wish, agent 007, but I personally can't do it. The FF concept alone is enough to turn me off, so it'd take a literal miracle for the show's writers to impress me. With that rather large strike against it, I don't have the faith or time to wait around any longer than I already have in hopes that the show might improve. Furthermore, it's just not really the Turtles to me, so that seals it for me.

[Krangstein]

And is sending the Turtles to the future the only way they could think of to get better ratings?? Couldn't they have stayed in the present but still be more kid-friendly. It's ironic that sending TMNT to the future might have been the thing that actually made sure there would be no future for the series. And it's a shame, with the movie coming out and all.

[ZariusTwo]

Let me just smack a little dose of realism into you. The fans don't matter, the target audience does. The target audience hav'nt been watching this show at all, it's been a combination of toy sales, Pete's own back pocket, and 4Kids' paitence that have seen the last four seasons reach the heights it has had with those who see it for what it is, but now 4Kids are recognising the problem and are making it worse.

And yeah, I'd rather not support it, I don't support formats that betray the core concepts of what this version was supposed to be.

[Krangstein]

Let me just smack a little dose of realism into you. The fans don't matter, the target audience does. The target audience hav'nt been watching this show at all, it's been a combination of toy sales, Pete's own back pocket, and 4Kids' paitence that have seen the last four seasons reach the heights it has had with those who see it for what it is, but now 4Kids are recognising the problem and are making it worse.

And yeah, I'd rather not support it, I don't support formats that betray the core concepts of what this version was supposed to be.
They just changed it too much...

[Quiller-Bee]

...And when you're failing to reach your target audience--all while alienating your existing fanbase while you attempt to pull that coveted target audience in--your show is certainly doomed. That's just how the business works. In the end, fans and everything else don't matter. It all comes down to ratings and money. I think most of us see the writing on the wall: this is probably the TMNT's last season in this incarnation. The 2K3 Toon TMNT chapter is coming to an close.

[agent 007]

...And when you're failing to reach your target audience--all while alienating your existing fanbase while you attempt to pull that coveted target audience in--your show is certainly doomed. That's just how the business works. In the end, fans and everything else don't matter. It all comes down to ratings and money. I think most of us see the writing on the wall: this is probably the TMNT's last season in this incarnation. The 2K3 Toon TMNT chapter is coming to an close.

That's what I'm saying, they shouldn't try for one audience, instead, they should try and please both. Not by changing their animation style and look, but keeping that, and maybe adding the extra kiddy element they were going for. I think it's dumb to change it entirely, it would be good to go half and half, in my oppinion.

[iris]

I'd say the future of TMNT is pretty sound, regardless of whether FF gets cancelled. We've got the movie to look forward to. The fans should be promoting that.

[PizzaPower]

and we are promoting that. :)

[Quiller-Bee]

I doubt that the TMNT property as a whole is anything to worry about at this point. If the show gets cancelled, no big deal. In fact, it's probably for the best. The property will likely endure in one form or another, and we'll see other versions of the Turtles in the future. Just as has been the case with Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc., etc..

[PizzaPower]

your right, we prob will.

[VaughnMichael]

I'd say the future of TMNT is pretty sound, regardless of whether FF gets cancelled. We've got the movie to look forward to. The fans should be promoting that.
well as you can see around here Iris people for the most part are negative and don't think about good things...infact allot of people don't post anything untill some thing bad goes on with the TMNT.

[iris]

well as you can see around here Iris people for the most part are negative and don't think about good things...infact allot of people don't post anything untill some thing bad goes on with the TMNT.
Well THAT was certainly positive. :roll: LOL

It seems to me that people are mainly here because they like TMNT. So that's positive enough for me. People are gonna complain when things don't go the way they hope... whatcha gonna do? *shrug*

[XERO]

If the Turtles get canned, I'll be out of a job.:P

And we'd probably have to wait another 6 years for another series.:ohwell:

[VaughnMichael]

Well THAT was certainly positive. :roll: LOL

It seems to me that people are mainly here because they like TMNT. So that's positive enough for me. People are gonna complain when things don't go the way they hope... whatcha gonna do? *shrug*
poison their drinks...:evilgrin:

[Quiller-Bee]

With all due respect, Putrescent, some of us don't post until we feel that we have something to say, whether it's positive or negative. My posts to this forum have been both, but I'd say the positives outweigh the negatives. As for me, all I'm doing is stating my opinion. In this particular case, unfortunately, the feelings are less than good.

Meanwhile, bring on the movie. You wanna hear something positive from me? It looks like it's going to be great, and I hope that it'll give the franchise a boost.

[VaughnMichael]

With all due respect, Putrescent, some of us don't post until we feel that we have something to say, whether it's positive or negative. My posts to this forum have been both, but I'd say the positives outweigh the negatives. As for me, all I'm doing is stating my opinion. In this particular case, unfortunately, the feelings are less than good.

Meanwhile, bring on the movie. You wanna hear something positive from me? It looks like it's going to be great, and I hope that it'll give the franchise a boost.
I agree 100% and I really think it's gonna bring tmnt to where it needs to be and not looked at so much as just a kids property!:D

[PizzaPower]

it will be worth the wait.

[MasterMole]

Hopefully the movie will be popular so then that will impact the merchandise sales and hopefully the cartoon. The new movie is going to be rooted to it's original comic books, just like the 2003 cartoon. Seeing how the movie is portrayed and probably well appreciated, maybe 4Kids will clearly see how the show was meant to be, and let the writers continue to make great episodes like with the first four seasons. If not, then the show should definately be moved to another network, preferably Toonami. Then it can be shown how it was intended to be.

[Katie]

I wouldn't even care if they left the cartoon the way it is as long as the movie is successful enough to give us sequals once a year. It's not going back to what it was...that's been made pretty clear.

[ZariusTwo]

I agree 100% and I really think it's gonna bring tmnt to where it needs to be and not looked at so much as just a kids property!:D

The original movie tried that, look what happened. Nothing. Just accept the product is only ever going to get one or two shots at a definitive version and the remainder will be a children's franchise.

[oldtoonTMNTfan]

Let me just smack a little dose of realism into you. The fans don't matter, the target audience does. The target audience hav'nt been watching this show at all, it's been a combination of toy sales, Pete's own back pocket, and 4Kids' paitence that have seen the last four seasons reach the heights it has had with those who see it for what it is, but now 4Kids are recognising the problem and are making it worse.

I disagree, Fast Forward has gain new fans and meet some target audience expectations [including myself]. If you go to youtube.com and type in TMNT Fast Forward, you'll see a lot of positive feedback from fans. If you hate the show, then why did you post a topic entitled "Fast Forward" the donner cut? Most fans who does not support Fast Forward would either change the channel, or do something else with their time.

And yeah, I'd rather not support it, I don't support formats that betray the core concepts of what this version was supposed to be.

It seems to me that you don't like change.

[ZariusTwo]

I disagree, Fast Forward has gain new fans and meet some target audience expectations [including myself]

Yes, that speaks volumes over actual ratings statistcs, a bunch of retarded adolescents on one of the most vile communities imaginable speaks for a worldwide consensus, yeah, you're FULL of credibility are'nt you?

If you go to youtube.com and type in TMNT Fast Forward, you'll see a lot of positive feedback from fans

Newsflash, Youtube are full of idiots, the most illiterate, racist, unconformist peies of slime on the planet, all the logical comments on that site are drowned out, I also have looked up plenty of comments and several are also negative. But then, the online community does'nt matter, way to contradict yourself when trying to prove that they do. Telivision ratings are telivision ratings, not Internet ratings

If you hate the show, then why did you post a topic entitled "Fast Forward" the donner cut?

Why do people who hate the Phantom Menace and The Matrix sequels make different cuts? To show what could have been made more presentable, it's not like I'm going to do this with every episode loser, it was one cut, one effort, one way of showing how to sugercoat a peice of crap with a cheery, that's all.

"Fear Change"...pppft, if I feared that, I would'nt have liked the original cartoon, you're a conformist who does'nt care what format the show takes so long as it survives, that's not being a fan, that's being a sheep, your kind is everything we're against in the fandom.

It seems to me that you don't like change.

It seems to me you like to keep baiting people long after the argument is over, give up and go to sleep little boy.

[VaughnMichael]

The original movie tried that, look what happened. Nothing. Just accept the product is only ever going to get one or two shots at a definitive version and the remainder will be a children's franchise.
I don't think the first movie really had the chance back then to draw an adult audience because of the popularity of the cartoon.
Neither the last show or this Fast Forward show seem to really be grabbing anyone.
So I still believe there is allot of hope with this new movie because Kevin Monroe seems to have allot of faith in it and it looks like he knows what he's doing. But only time can tell.

[oldtoonTMNTfan]

[QUOTE=Putrescent]I don't think the first movie really had the chance back then to draw an adult audience because of the popularity of the cartoon.

Really? I remember watching it when I was nine and they were some adults without kids.

[QUOTE=Putrescent]Neither the last show or this Fast Forward show seem to really be grabbing anyone.

I think you're underestimating the ratings. According to Nielsen ratings, Fast Forward is number one for 4Kids and Winx club is in second place. I think it gained an audience, eventhough some fans hates it.

[iris]

That's good to hear. At least it's working.

[ZariusTwo]

So I still believe there is allot of hope with this new movie because Kevin Monroe seems to have allot of faith in it and it looks like he knows what he's doing. But only time can tell.

I have little doubt the movie will be good, but what a lot of fans don't have is the understanding that the TMNT went down a path that blurred the lines between the source material and what we saw with the original series, and that cost the original movie it's chance to make a bigger impact in the eyes of the demographic, not just then, but period. TMNT is'nt on the level of Sin City, it will always be seen in the same leauge as Power Rangers and Pokemon, fans with some realism can grasp that and just enjoy what we have right now knowing noone else appreciates it the way we do, others seem to think anything dark and sombre is going to repair the damage, and it's far too late for that.

[iris]

I have little doubt the movie will be good, but what a lot of fans don't have is the understanding that the TMNT went down a path that blurred the lines between the source material and what we saw with the original series, and that cost the original movie it's chance to make a bigger impact in the eyes of the demographic, not just then, but period. TMNT is'nt on the level of Sin City, it will always be seen in the same leauge as Power Rangers and Pokemon, fans with some realism can grasp that and just enjoy what we have right now knowing noone else appreciates it the way we do, others seem to think anything dark and sombre is going to repair the damage, and it's far too late for that.
How do you reconcile that statement with "Batman"? Not to mention the fact that when I talk about about the TMNT movie with casual Turtles fans, inevitably someone asks, "is it going to be 'hardcore' like the comic books?" And usually they haven't even seen an issue, so where are they getting the idea that Turtles is supposed to be less for the kids?

[ZariusTwo]

How do you reconcile that statement with "Batman"?

Who the heck says I was? Batman did'nt spend ten years consistently with BIFF and POW did it?

[quote]Not to mention the fact that when I talk about about the TMNT movie with casual Turtles fans, inevitably someone asks, "is it going to be 'hardcore' like the comic books?"

I don't know who the hell you talk to, but c'mon, the mainstream are'nt always going to say "I know the Turtles were hardcore", because if that were true, they'd be encouraging people to watch the show.

[iris]

I talk to guys who think they're macho and that it will impress me that they want hardcore turtles, 'cuz obviously since I like horror movies I like hardcore turtles. lol And they don't watch the Saturday morning show. Or won't admit to it, being Manly Men who do not watch children's shows. :p

Batman is a valid example. It's a comic-based thing, and it WAS targeted at children when it was on TV in a dorky, silly series, and geez was I born when it was originally on TV? No, but I saw it in reruns. It started in 1966 and I was born in 1979, and probably only saw it on TV when I was four or older, so that's a good 17 years right there.

ETA: I didn't mean to imply that you said anything about Batman before.

[ZariusTwo]

Batman is a valid example. It's a comic-based thing, and it WAS targeted at children when it was on TV in a dorky, silly series, and geez was I born when it was originally on TV? No, but I saw it in reruns. It started in 1966 and I was born in 1979, and probably only saw it on TV when I was four or older, so that's a good 17 years right there.

The point being, reruns aside, Batman's name was restored in comics in the 1970's as a gritter character, so that by the time the movie arrived, [people knew what to expect and years had passed to seperate him from the campy incarnation

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I don't think I can support TMNT in this one. I'm a hardcore fan, but I can still recognize crap when i see it.

At this point, I'd rather the show get canned than suffer through this indignity. Even if it meas waiting 6 years for another TMNT show, I don't mind, as long as it's good, I'll wait.

But at least i have The Lost Season and the new movie too look foward to.

[VaughnMichael]

Really? I remember watching it when I was nine and they were some adults without kids.

I think you're underestimating the ratings. According to Nielsen ratings, Fast Forward is number one for 4Kids and Winx club is in second place. I think it gained an audience, eventhough some fans hates it.
Well, you seem to have misunderstood my post a bit what I was saying basically is that they have a better chance now at doing this and trying to make a movie for everyone even though the first movie was like that many years have passed and allot of the fans have grown up. That's what I'm trying to get at.
Well that's good and btw I'm a huge TMNT fan and I don't dislike Fast Forward even though it's not the best ever it's not as bad as everyones making out to be in my view.

[iris]

The point being, reruns aside, Batman's name was restored in comics in the 1970's as a gritter character, so that by the time the movie arrived, [people knew what to expect and years had passed to seperate him from the campy incarnation
Realistically though, how many people read the comics? How did popular opinion of Batman change that much based on the comics? I don't think it did. But then came a movie that was darker than the silly show, and popular opinion changed. It STILL wasn't all the way back to dark and gritty-- it was still somewhat 'cartoonish' if you know what I mean. But opinion did change. Granted, we don't have the likes of Jack Nicholson for the 2007 TMNT flick, but really how can we predict how the public will receive future TMNT?

[ZariusTwo]

Realistically though, how many people read the comics? How did popular opinion of Batman change that much based on the comics? I don't think it did.

"Thinking" and "knowing statistics" are two VERY different things, "reallisticlly", you are seriously underestimating how many people read comics back then, but of course what do you know? By your own admission you were a baby ive at the time. Need I also remind you Superman came out in the late 1970's to help with people's opinions of campy superhero roles changing?

But then came a movie that was darker than the silly show, and popular opinion changed. It STILL wasn't all the way back to dark and gritty-- it was still somewhat 'cartoonish' if you know what I mean

No, I don't actually "know what you mean", I think you're dodging the issue and trying to sugercoat the Burton movies of all things as "silly but gritty", the first movie is everything the Bob Kane comics were, Batman Returns was plotless but emulated the 1990's tone, Batman Begins is the modern day Batman comics and a touch of Miller

Granted, we don't have the likes of Jack Nicholson for the 2007 TMNT flick, but really how can we predict how the public will receive future TMNT?

Because of it's old track record, which the new series did nothing to improve because nobody watched it, and if audiences are watching it now (and I would'nt go on Oldtoonloser's say-so for one thing unless he cited his sources), then it just shows there not going to change their opinion now on what the franchise is to them.

The majoirty matters.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Because of it's old track record, which the new series did nothing to improve because nobody watched it, and if audiences are watching it now (and I would'nt go on Oldtoonloser's say-so for one thing unless he cited his sources), then it just shows there not going to change their opinion now on what the franchise is to them.

The majoirty matters.

Thats the thing, no one watched it because no one even knew it was on. Like I've stated before, I think the real reason TMNT hasn't been doing so good is that there was no previous hype for the show. No movie to help set the new tone. Batman TAS had Batman(1990), Spider-Man and the Fantastic 4 were each helped along by their movies, but no one had heard from the TMNT since 1997, their return was totally under the radar.

[iris]

"Thinking" and "knowing statistics" are two VERY different things, "reallisticlly", you are seriously underestimating how many people read comics back then, but of course what do you know? By your own admission you were a baby ive at the time. Need I also remind you Superman came out in the late 1970's to help with people's opinions of campy superhero roles changing?

No, I don't actually "know what you mean", I think you're dodging the issue and trying to sugercoat the Burton movies of all things as "silly but gritty", the first movie is everything the Bob Kane comics were, Batman Returns was plotless but emulated the 1990's tone, Batman Begins is the modern day Batman comics and a touch of Miller

Because of it's old track record, which the new series did nothing to improve because nobody watched it, and if audiences are watching it now (and I would'nt go on Oldtoonloser's say-so for one thing unless he cited his sources), then it just shows there not going to change their opinion now on what the franchise is to them.

The majoirty matters.
Zarius, no, I can't quote stats at you telling you how many people read comics back then. I know it was more than now, and it was before all these fake reverse-engineered fad comics, but it does not seem logical to me to say that comics had that huge an impact on the majority of people, who knew Batman from the campy show. And I didn't admit to being a baby! I admitted to not even existing. :D

I did exist when the first Batman movie came out, and I can only give you my opinion of it, which was that it was a great movie but it still had some elements that I found too absurd to be believable. That's what I meant by "cartoonish." For example, some people thought Jack Nicholson was creepy as the Joker, but, well, I just thought he looked like Jack Nicholson trying to look scary a lot of makeup. I dunno, maybe I'm weird. I thought Batman TAS's Joker was way creepier (I haven't seen the original movie since before TAS).

Anyway for some reason, the general public doesn't find the concept of an eccentric man running around dressed as a giant bat to be that far-fetched, where the same is definitely not true of giant turtles who live like normal people (compared to Bruce Wayne). Why is that? I really think it was mainly the movie's influence, combined with timing. And no I don't think Superman and Batman were viewed in the same category by the majority of people. One was cool and All-American, and the other was zany comedy.

The general public is notoriously ill-informed; they only know what's on the surface. Potliticians have exploited that rule for centuries. That's why the first movie was caught in the wave of the old toon series, like you said. But doesn't the same rule apply to the 2007 movie? The general public only remembers generalities about the earlier stuff. Pizza, cowabunga, Go Ninja Go Ninja Go. How surprised are they going to be when they see a movie that's not really about that? Because I think we can be reasonably assured that the movie's gonna be more like the 2K3 series, which the grownups love. Am I wrong? (Like I need to ask!)

BTW I'm not under the delusion that everyone is watching the current TMNT series, even if the ratings are great, because most of the public isn't watching during that time slot.

[VaughnMichael]

That's good to hear. At least it's working.
yea it is because I hadn't seen anything about the ratings...could be because people didn't want us to know it was doing well lol:lol:
I have little doubt the movie will be good, but what a lot of fans don't have is the understanding that the TMNT went down a path that blurred the lines between the source material and what we saw with the original series, and that cost the original movie it's chance to make a bigger impact in the eyes of the demographic, not just then, but period. TMNT is'nt on the level of Sin City, it will always be seen in the same leauge as Power Rangers and Pokemon, fans with some realism can grasp that and just enjoy what we have right now knowing noone else appreciates it the way we do, others seem to think anything dark and sombre is going to repair the damage, and it's far too late for that.
Yes, Zarius that is exactly how I feel and thank you so much....
Actually what I'm talking about is that I feel this could be a turning point for the property as a whole not because it's dark or whatever...if that was the case would I give a Splinters ass about Fast Forward..no I think not.
And I'm sure the fans at least the ones here anyway have more than enough knowledge to know the old show basically was a completely different animal then anything else TMNT that we ever had or will ever have to say they don't is a bit insulting.
And it's ok if you don't have any faith in this movie I didn't either until I saw real footage from it and it blew me away. The trailer sucks ass compared to what the movie really looks like.
Hmm well I think we've all seen "Things Change" before and I honestly think they can again. I do agree though the old toon ruined allot of chances of almost any adults getting into TMNT and taking it seriously.
Comparing TMNT to Sin City is like comparing apple's to Pineapples... there both fruits just like those are both comic books but one wasn't really known by the public that being sin city until that amazing movie came out now tuns of people know about it. TMNT just sort of came along to the wrong people at the wrong time.
Sin City has always seemed a bit darker to me then even the TMNT comics anyway.
Well, yea it's far to late for anything with that attitude..I mean hell we might as well just give up on earth and oh wait nevermind...
Oh and btw I'm firmly grounded thank you I'm not one of these newbies you like to push around because they are uninformed of everything that is TMNT.

Who the heck says I was? Batman did'nt spend ten years consistently with BIFF and POW did it?
I don't know who the hell you talk to, but c'mon, the mainstream are'nt always going to say "I know the Turtles were hardcore", because if that were true, they'd be encouraging people to watch the show.
Yea and thank god he didn't...and hardly anyone in the mainstream even knows about the Mirage tmnt which I'd even call dark most of the time...even with the blood, death, and violence it sure has it's share of heart felt moments, charm, and laughs.
But never say never man there is always a chance for everything as long as some one is willing to take said chance....but the questions is...is Peter Laird.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
The point being, reruns aside, Batman's name was restored in comics in the 1970's as a gritter character, so that by the time the movie arrived, [people knew what to expect and years had passed to seperate him from the campy incarnation
But see you just said Batman did it so could you please go in depth why you don't think the TMNT can ever be excepted that way?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

But see you just said Batman did it so could you please go in depth why you don't think the TMNT can ever be excepted that way?

Maybe it's because Batman is already accepted by the mainstream as dark and cool, but most people don't care to acknowledge TMNT that way.

[Krang]

Just a general comment: I don't want to see any more personal attacks in this thread. I know that there are many different opinions on the subject and it's fine to disagree, but there's no need to attack someone just because they don't agree with you. Just agree to disagree and move on (or, if you must drag it on further, do so somewhere outside of the forums).

Back on topic: Does it really matter that much what the public opinion of the TMNT is? Just watch what you want to, don't watch what you don't want to, and pay no attention to what everyone else thinks. I prefer the original cartoon which has a sense of humor and doesn't take itself seriously. Others prefer the "dark and gritty" versions of the TMNT. To each his own.

[PizzaPower]

I agree krang.

[iris]

Just a general comment: I don't want to see any more personal attacks in this thread. I know that there are many different opinions on the subject and it's fine to disagree, but there's no need to attack someone just because they don't agree with you. Just agree to disagree and move on (or, if you must drag it on further, do so somewhere outside of the forums).

Back on topic: Does it really matter that much what the public opinion of the TMNT is? Just watch what you want to, don't watch what you don't want to, and pay no attention to what everyone else thinks. I prefer the original cartoon which has a sense of humor and doesn't take itself seriously. Others prefer the "dark and gritty" versions of the TMNT. To each his own.
Sorry, Krang. I figured public opinion was relevant to The Future of TMNT, in terms of the growth or diminishment of the franchise. The future's bright, because there's something in TMNT for everyone. I like a good portion of humor myself (I was being sarcastic when I said I liked "hardcore horror" turtles).

I wasn't trying to attack anyone and I don't feel attacked either, but I can be pretty oblivious! :P Consider this subject dropped, for my part.

[Krang]

Sorry, Krang. I figured public opinion was relevant to The Future of TMNT, in terms of the growth or diminishment of the franchise. The future's bright, because there's something in TMNT for everyone. I like a good portion of humor myself (I was being sarcastic when I said I liked "hardcore horror" turtles).

I wasn't trying to attack anyone and I don't feel attacked either, but I can be pretty oblivious! :P Consider this subject dropped, for my part.
Don't worry, I wasn't targeting anyone specific with my comment, and I don't even mind the discussion about that topic. It's just that I saw a few comments where people were attacking each other rather than simply disagreeing (not from you, but from a few others), so I posted my opinion to give people a different perspective. It seems that some people were taking the topic too seriously, so I was hoping to either end that part of the discussion or take it in a different direction to calm things down.