Dragon Ball Z (Uncut)

[AquaParade]

I was just wondering what the people on this board thought of the Dragon Ball Z series as a whole. I seem to hear a lot of mixed things. I used to watch it when i was a bit younger and was considering re-watching the Un-cut versions of the episdoes, but i dont know if there will really be a difference. So what do you guys think of Dbz and Dbz compared the the uncut episodes? Any episodes where the "uncut" actually makes a big difference?

[Jon]

I was just wondering what the people on this board thought of the Dragon Ball Z series as a whole. I seem to hear a lot of mixed things. I used to watch it when i was a bit younger and was considering re-watching the Un-cut versions of the episdoes, but i dont know if there will really be a difference. So what do you guys think of Dbz and Dbz compared the the uncut episodes? Any episodes where the "uncut" actually makes a big difference?


Well, have read about some of the editing. And seen some of it too (from getting some of the uncut DVDs). In most cases it's little things like excessive violence (especially displays of blood-and-gore). But also have quite a bit of dialogue changing. As well as some cases of most of an ep. being cut (and what remains tacked on other episodes, where there has been minor cutting - to compensate the time lost).

[DrSpengler]

There was some heavy duty editting done to the original Ocean Group-era Dragonball Z. Not only for objectionable material, but for stuff edittors thought was either "boring" or "not funny". The first episode had most of Gohan's scenes in the forest cut, while there were a few episodes that were cut entirely (the one where Gohan meets the robot buried in the cave, for example).

I used to watch the Ocean Group episodes and I still have a soft spot for them, if only for the AWESOME dub job the Ocean Group did. Can't beat Brian Drummond's Vegeta.

The DBZ uncut is good, as they maintain most of the best lines from the Ocean Group dub. The Funimation voices have grown on me by now, though.


As far as Dragonball is concerned, I still like it even though I've outgrown some of it. I prefer the movies, as they omit the one thing I hate most about the TV series, the annoying amounts of filler, and get straight to the point. I own em all on DVD.

[Krang's Uncle]

Ive only seen what Cartoon Network used to (and still does every now and then i believe) show, but i think Dragonball Z had its good and bad, and in my opinion is an average cartoon show. I think the animation is cool, and the characters werent bad looking either. But story wise, i think its terrible. Way too many pointless episodes where two guys would be fighting, guy x would knock around guy y. Guy y would power up and pound guy x. Guy x would compliment guy y on his strength and then guy x would power up and pound on guy y. Then guy y would compliment guy x on his strength and then guy y would power up and pound on guy x. And continue to repeat this amazingly redundant sequence. Then once that was resolved, they would have to train for the new bad guy who was badder than the last fool they had fought. And then the cycle would repeat itself. Thats just how i feel about it though, obviously there are many people who like Dragonball Z, and thats cool too.

[Spitfire]

It sucks...seriously I could go on for awhile about why but I'll avoid an essay.

[DrSpengler]

Ive only seen what Cartoon Network used to (and still does every now and then i believe) show, but i think Dragonball Z had its good and bad, and in my opinion is an average cartoon show. I think the animation is cool, and the characters werent bad looking either. But story wise, i think its terrible. Way too many pointless episodes where two guys would be fighting, guy x would knock around guy y. Guy y would power up and pound guy x. Guy x would compliment guy y on his strength and then guy x would power up and pound on guy y. Then guy y would compliment guy x on his strength and then guy y would power up and pound on guy x. And continue to repeat this amazingly redundant sequence. Then once that was resolved, they would have to train for the new bad guy who was badder than the last fool they had fought. And then the cycle would repeat itself. Thats just how i feel about it though, obviously there are many people who like Dragonball Z, and thats cool too.

Which is why I liked the original Dragonball a lot better. It was more creative with its stories and paced a lot less redundantly.

I tired of DBZ after the Frieza arc, since all the characters I came to love from Dragonball became completely obsolete and vanished from the series, all for the purpose of introducing new Saiyans.

[The Clerk]

I used to LOVE DB and DBZ!


I never seen them uncut, tho. I wish I can.

I liked all of DB but not all of DBZ... I stopped watching when Goku and Vagetta went inside of M. Buu.... o_O

[Mecha Cow]

I've seen every episode (As far as they were shown on TV at least - Cut, most likely). Horrible, horrible series, yet I can't help but love it. Stupid nostalgia. Hey, it was some pretty amazing stuff for a 12-year old.

GT had none of the charm and was just plain bad, though.

[Barkworm]

Personally I think pretty much everything with adult Goku sucked. The manga/show started as an adventure story with a very strong comedy element but later chapters became a brainless battle orgy.

[Brodie]

You mean those DBZ episodes get LONGER?!

[Drtooth]

Which is why I liked the original Dragonball a lot better. It was more creative with its stories and paced a lot less redundantly.

I agree. DBZ is cool and all, but Gimme kid Goku pulling off Bulma's panties and being shocked because he is not accustom to male/female anatomic differences. Gimme Emperor Pilaf and His hench chick who could easily kick his ass. Gimme Yamucha before he looked like a game show host in a yellow suit (That Irwin figure looks a hell of a lot like Guy Smiley... I'm sorry). More lewd humor, more magic.

The only arc of Z I found totally interresting so far is the Middle of the Buu Storyarch where Kid Buu and Mr. Satan have their scene.

[Silent FOx]

I'm a DBZ fan. I started reading the mangas a couple years back, and it only increased my love of the show. It can be slow and tedious at times, but I still enjoy it for what it is.

[AquaParade]

How do the mangas compare to the t.v. show? Are they more mature? Follow the same story line? etc...

[DrSpengler]

I agree. DBZ is cool and all, but Gimme kid Goku pulling off Bulma's panties and being shocked because he is not accustom to male/female anatomic differences. Gimme Emperor Pilaf and His hench chick who could easily kick his ass. Gimme Yamucha before he looked like a game show host in a yellow suit (That Irwin figure looks a hell of a lot like Guy Smiley... I'm sorry). More lewd humor, more magic.

The only arc of Z I found totally interresting so far is the Middle of the Buu Storyarch where Kid Buu and Mr. Satan have their scene.

The one thing that really irked me about DBZ was the total shafting of nearly all the characters from Dragonball. They either became so out-powered by the Saiyans and outer space enemies that they completely vanished into worthless obscurity (Yamcha, Tien, Chao-tzu) or they stuck around solely for the sake of comic relief (poor poor Krillen).

I mean, they couldn't at least thrown us a bone and shown Puar and Oolong transform at least ONCE in the series. Any Dragonball nostalgia is welcome. Hell, the Power Poll would've been great if they'd used it in the series (though I'm glad we got to see it in Dead Zone and World's Strognest).

I dunno, I felt a bit ripped off after the Frieza saga ended. I spent all of Dragonball coming to love these characters and then the second Trunks shows up they are completely discarded so we can get one new Super Saiyan after another.

That's why Tree of Might is my favorite of the movies. It has the Dragonball cast getting one last hurrah as effective warriors and not just stupid comic relief.

[Barkworm]

The only arc of Z I found totally interresting so far is the Middle of the Buu Storyarch where Kid Buu and Mr. Satan have their scene.
I know most people hate the Buu arc but the beginning with Gohan as Saiyaman was a lot more like early Dragonball than anything else in DBZ.

[Draconic]

It would be awsome, although extremely tedius and time consuming, if someone took the initiative to cut the repetitive fight scenes down into more intense and meaningful fight scenes, and cut down on the filler, meaningless B.S.

I bet if that happened, they could cut DBZ down to 100-125 episodes easily, and create a much more interesting DBZ.

[Drtooth]

The one thing that really irked me about DBZ was the total shafting of nearly all the characters from Dragonball. They either became so out-powered by the Saiyans and outer space enemies that they completely vanished into worthless obscurity (Yamcha, Tien, Chao-tzu) or they stuck around solely for the sake of comic relief (poor poor Krillen).


Why I had trouble getting into it. I like action comedy. Granted, there was some comedy in Z (most of it filtered out by edits... all relating to porno), but I didn't really even WANT to bother with it, until freshman year of Art School, someone brought in the bootleg movie in which Hitler was ressurrected. Now that struck me on a hillarious "family Guy" level of wonderfully offensive material. And that's for like 10-14 year olds, isn't it? South Park and Family Guy barely egt away with that stuff.

I really got into the old Dragon ball after buying a heavily edited 2 disk set of the first 13 episodes and the first movie (Blood Rubies) at Wal Mart for 5.50. I then picked up the manga, and splurged on one of the massively overpriced 2 disk sets (though it was, in fairness, really a gift card I used). Much funnier, racier stuff.

As for the box set, I cannot stand how Roshi was toned down so much he was shy to ask for a date with an older woman, and not to blow around in Bulma's breasts. Not to mention they randomly changed The Ox King story Oolong tells to a story about Yamcha... even though the shadow has horns and throws an axe. But I got so many laughs out of it... and many more when I found the true versions of the edited stuff.

My favorite characters were always the wacky ones, Oolong, Roshi, Kuririn (SP?), Korin... and like that.

I know most people hate the Buu arc but the beginning with Gohan as Saiyaman was a lot more like early Dragonball than anything else in DBZ.

Actually... I feel that whole scene with Buu and Mr. Satan was not just Old school Dragon ball worthy, but even routes back to Dr. Slump... only this time, instead of cute little Arale causing Animaniac style mischief, we get a psycho kid who turns people into candy. Evertyhgin else in that arch is okay... but Mr. Satan... funny as hell.

[Peanut]

DBZ and pretty much any cartoon from Japan make my brain explode. I've have never viewed more ridiculous things in my entire life. If I never go another day without seeing another generic looking anime character, stupid chibi face, or spiky haired fruitcup, it still won't have been long enough.

[Draconic]

Yea? Whatever Peanut. Sounds like a personal issue.


I started watching DBZ in 6th grade. That show hooked me, and I remember waiting very impatiently every 4 months for new episodes. I even waited the freaking 2-year stent without any new episodes (right in the middle of the Freiza saga) and eventually lost inerest. About a year later, I caught some reruns, and ended up getting back into it, around the time of the Cell saga. I eventually finished watching the whole thing.

That show, while incredibly drawn out, continued to keep me interested. The show was pretty emotional at some points, and in retrospect, I think I enjoyed their down-time just as much, if not more, than watching them fight.

DBZ is also the anime that opened my mind to other anime. The gateway anime. Since then, my tastes have matured a tad, but I think that DBZ will not go forgotten.

I think that this show goes next to Power Rangers, and the TMNT, not for quality nor nostalgia, but as far as influencing me to become an artist, as well as a martial artist.

[Toonami Tom]

DragonBall Z used to be my favorite show. I love the action, the fighting, the powers, the characters, everything about it. I stopped watching after Kid Buu was destroyed. I'm not sure why I didn't see anymore episodes after that, probably due to the show being on when it was time to eat dinner.

I was going to sell all my DragonBall Z figures on ebay, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I wish a toy company would make 6" fully articualted DBZ figures with great sculpts. That would be great.

Goku is my favorite hero character in the show, and Cell is my favorite villian character.

I figured it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned Goku and 'that' Bulma scene from DragonBall.

[Drtooth]

I figured it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned Goku and 'that' Bulma scene from DragonBall.

And they couldn't even do that crap here on Family Guy! And this is an older children's show.

If I never go another day without seeing another generic looking anime character, stupid chibi face, or spiky haired fruitcup, it still won't have been long enough.

Funny thing. I try to go to more Japanese shows AGAINST those stereotypes. That's why I love One Piece. It doesn't even look like a stereotypical Anime. I guess it was spikey haired Sayan Goku that brought that one over. Personally, I hope to NEVER EVER see another half assed Pokemon Knock off, and some decent stuff for a change.

[Mandi-chan]

How do the mangas compare to the t.v. show? Are they more mature? Follow the same story line? etc...

The anime is just too damn long, the pacing sucks.

I enjoy the manga much more (thanks to my sister who has been collecting it lately...). We haven't made it to the DBZ part of the manga yet, so I can't comment on that...but the pacing and story just seems a lot more enjoyable in the manga.

[Drtooth]

That's the problem with Animes and mangas. A lot of things are added to keep the animation from getting ahead of the monthly comic chapters. I can only bring up one example. The Majin Buu segment where Goten and Trunks finally perform a successful fushion, they go off to fight Buu. In the cartoon, a long battle sequence ensues, they come back, beat up. In the comic, 2 pannels after they leave, they return beat up. I think the comic made it much funnier.

I know the original Dragon ball filled out storylines with extra episodes, but I feel they were at least entertaining and funny. Like when they got to the amusement Park and a Master theif poses as a fortune teller to steal the Dragon Balls. Goku drops his pants.

Yamcha: Come on Goku! Every one knows about thoseballs.

[Spitfire]

You mean those DBZ episodes get LONGER?!
Yeah they cut out some dialog of them talking about fighting, and a few shots of them staring at one another.

Oh wait that's the entire show

[Mandi-chan]

Yeah they cut out some dialog of them talking about fighting, and a few shots of them staring at one another.

Oh wait that's the entire show

LOL, that's so true!

[AquaParade]

Why so much hate for Dragon Ball GT...o, and how much are Vegeta and Trunks featured in that series? Is'nt Trunks one of the main characters in Gt?

[DrSpengler]

Why so much hate for Dragon Ball GT...o, and how much are Vegeta and Trunks featured in that series? Is'nt Trunks one of the main characters in Gt?

Yes, as I recall.

Trunks was more heavily featured during the actual "grand tour" arc (or as they were released in America, "the lost episodes") while Vegeta spends more time on Earth fighting Baby and the Dragons.

As I said before, I wasn't too thrilled with DBZ after the Frieza arc ended, so GT wasn't my cup of tea. The Grand Tour arc can be a bit painful. It tries to go back to the playful days of Dragonball but the writing isn't half as good.

The ending also depresses the hell out of me.

[Mecha Cow]

GT is really, really bad. It felt like some kind of crappy fanfiction, and I guess in a way it was. It really makes no sense at all, even by the extremely low DBZ standards.

[ZariusTwo]

GT is really a rehash of past glories, with lousy endings, think Transformers: Headmasters in terms of outright main character rape. It has no reason to exist, and nothing progresses forward, the only shocking thing about GT is the amount of downers for every character. That being said, it's probably the only DB series anywhere where Android 18 actually emotes, and to the writer's credit, it's one of the best scenes in the series.

...And it turned Pan into probably the most annoying DB character ever. That's hard to do for any female in an anime. Pan was charming in her brief kindergarden apperances near the epilouge of DBZ, and it's that Pan that fanfiction writers remember and draw years later when there pairing her with Trunks, not the obnoxious one in GT.

[DrSpengler]

Yeah, it really says something about the quality of a TV show if Funimation had to go out of their way to "lose" the first half of the series and release it beginning with the Baby saga.

[Mecha Cow]

They actually skipped the actual GT part in the US? :lol: Those were probably the 'best' episodes of the series.

[Jon]

They actually skipped the actual GT part in the US? :lol: Those were probably the 'best' episodes of the series.


Yeah, apparently (from what I've read) they wanted to get to a more 'action' part of the series (and skip the 'universe trek'). Feeling more viewers would get into it from that.

[AquaParade]

:-? This is a bummer, I was actually looking forward to checking out the Dragon Ball Gt series, considering I thought Dragon Ball z was pretty cool, but though there are episodes I havent seen yet, I ultimately know what happens at the end of all the arcs, making watching them kinda useless....is Dragon Ball gt worth checking out at all? Maybe I should just check out some Dragon Ball, I havent seen too much of that one either...bleh.

[Mecha Cow]

Nah, I think watching GT will just leave a bad taste in your mouth. Like I said, it's like a bad fanfic. From what I've seen DB is a lot more fun.

[DrSpengler]

I'd definately watch GT only as a last resort if you have no other material to satiate your Dragonball fix.

If you haven't seen all of the original Dragonball, I'd highly recommend you watc that, first. It's very fun, and maybe a little too silly at times, but towards the end (the Picollo and Picollo Jr sagas) it gets pretty dark.

GT had a few good ideas, like bringing back the last of the Tuffles to seek revenge on Vegeta and the rest of the Saiyans, but was executed very poorly.

[Barkworm]

I haven't seen much of GT but I got the impression that every single plotline was just a rehash of an earlier DB/DBZ story. Like that one episode in which this (actually harmless) monster threatens to kill the villagers if they don't give him a beautiful girl? Yeah.

[Drtooth]

I'd definately watch GT only as a last resort if you have no other material to satiate your Dragonball fix.

If you haven't seen all of the original Dragonball, I'd highly recommend you watc that, first. It's very fun, and maybe a little too silly at times, but towards the end (the Picollo and Picollo Jr sagas) it gets pretty dark.

Speaking of which, Do you buy the DVD's, or diod you see them another way? I'm asking because I really want to get the saga in which Goku fights the red Ribbon Army, and Meets up with Arale-chan and everyone from Dr. Slump. I have the movie box set, and she's midway toward the end of Mystical Adventure.

I'm pretty disappointed that Funimation didn't release ANY of the Slump series. I don't think it would be a hit, but I guess the DBZ collectors would get a kick out of it.

Yeah, apparently (from what I've read) they wanted to get to a more 'action' part of the series (and skip the 'universe trek'). Feeling more viewers would get into it from that.

Heh! Isn't that why they skipped the ENTIRE Dragonball cartoon and whent right to Z? I do want to check out the Pilaf episode, though...

[DrSpengler]

Speaking of which, Do you buy the DVD's, or diod you see them another way? I'm asking because I really want to get the saga in which Goku fights the red Ribbon Army, and Meets up with Arale-chan and everyone from Dr. Slump. I have the movie box set, and she's midway toward the end of Mystical Adventure.

I'm pretty disappointed that Funimation didn't release ANY of the Slump series. I don't think it would be a hit, but I guess the DBZ collectors would get a kick out of it.

I first saw the show through bootleg VHS tapes and never bought the DVDs. I'm tempted too, especially for the Picollo saga, but the money is a little too much. I've been content just buying the Movies (have them all, finally).

The Dr. Slump crossover episode was pretty funny, as I recall. I especially liked the fake Superman character.

Heh! Isn't that why they skipped the ENTIRE Dragonball cartoon and whent right to Z? I do want to check out the Pilaf episode, though...

Well, not the entire cartoon. They got through 13 episodes and the Curse of the Blood Rubies movie before they decided to skip ahead to DBZ.

[Doppleganger]

Not to step on anyone's toes or anything but as far as Dragonball Z is concerned the show is quite horrible. Goku as the hero just bugs me. He is careless and unconcerned with consequences. "Oooooh this guy's power level is so high, I can't wait to find fight him!" IE His battle with Cell. He allows this menace to grow stronger and stronger just to satisfy his warrior urges?? He could destroy the planet (and I think he does) and all Goku cares about is fighting a "worthy opponent". But there is no need for concern because the dragon balls will always be there to resurrect the planet! People can die. People can suffer. But the Dragon Balls will always resurrect them. Ugh! At least in Dragon BAll GT (for as terrible and pointless as it was) gave consequences to misusing the Dragon Balls so much.

Oh and what people have mentioned about the long drawn out fights. XP

And is it me or do they just tack on stories to gain more profit. I just saw some movie called "Fusion Reborn". WTF?? O.O

Heheheh and why oh why do I watch this anime if I hate it so much? Well...I don't. :lol: It's weird and I don't get it most of the time but I'm guessing that you're not supposed to. XD

[Drtooth]

The Dr. Slump crossover episode was pretty funny, as I recall. I especially liked the fake Superman character.

Ah yes! Suppaiman. He eats pickled plums to get NO super powers. I've only seen 2 episodes of the real show. One actually, I think, could have been a movie. He was in the movie. I really like how Viz at least released the books up here. I think Slump is highly underrated. Plus, the Doc looks like me so much, it's freaky.



Well, not the entire cartoon. They got through 13 episodes and the Curse of the Blood Rubies movie before they decided to skip ahead to DBZ.

I have that box set. Cost me 6 bucks at WalMart. I remember seeing the episode where Oolong first appeared back in the 90's. It sticks out in my mind since Goku piddled on the tree. I find it odd they didn't censor that. It wouldn't have made sense without it... but then again the part where Bulma has random ants in her underwear was pretty stupid. I guess they liked the action segments better, so that's why classic DB didn't catch on.

[Jon]

I've also been planning to get the DVDs. Haven't gotten too many of DragonBall or GT yet, but for a time was getting the Uncut DBZ DVDs when they came out. Then ended up having to wait a while (for money constraints), and had fallen behind a bit. But hopefully some time get into buying more from each.

[ZariusTwo]

I'd get all of the series if certain fan prices were'nt OVER 9000!

[GK Punk]

I'd get all of the series if certain fan prices were'nt OVER 9000!



WHAT? OVER 9000!?!?

[ZariusTwo]

Vegeta



Vegeta



****ING 9000!

[DrSpengler]

Hahahahahaaaaa

That video had no right to be so funny, yet it was.

Man, I loved Brian Drummond's Vegeta. That's the one voice I missed the most when they swapped casts. Him and Scott McNeil's Picollo.

[Drtooth]

Man, I loved Brian Drummond's Vegeta. That's the one voice I missed the most when they swapped casts. Him and Scott McNeil's Picollo.

I don't like the voices they have for the original Dragon Ball as well. I think the original 13 episode dub had character voices that matched the actual Japanese character voices much better. OOlong in particular. Shao sounded different, and Roshi had that accent, but I think they fit with the characters.

I watched one of the dubbed episodes on the uncut box set I purchased (Red Ribbon Army Saga, just after the first world's strongest Tournament ended to the episode where they go to an amuzement park) and Emperor Pilaf sounded like a bad impersonation of Gonzo, the Muppet whatever.

[DrSpengler]

Yeah, Pilaf got a serious down-grade. In the Ocean dub, he and Garlic Jr had the same VA who did an awesome job. They tried pulling the same thing for the Funi dub and it turned out poorly.

There are some voices in the Funi dub I like, but overall, Ocean was better (despite the edits).

[Anarchistguy]

Of course. I'd take Brian Drummond's Vegeta over Christopher Sabat's any day. One part of the original dub Namek saga I liked is when Vegeta realised Gohan stole his Dragon Ball. he said something like : "KID!!! YOU WON'T ESCAPE...MY WRATH!!!" The line itself wasn't great but DAMN he sounded pissed!!! I don't think Sabat's Vegeta would be able to equal that.

How do the mangas compare to the t.v. show? Are they more mature? Follow the same story line? etc...

Dragon Ball:

(I'm talking about the whole thing -from when Goku and Bulma first meet to Goku's fight with the original Majin Buu-)

Manga ALL THE WAY!!! The pacing is MUCH, MUCH faster (like when Zabon first transformed, as soon as he was done, he IMMEDIATELY started attacking Vegeta, whereas in the anime, he gives a speech, laughs THEN attacks Vegeta. Also, the fight scenes look a HELL of a lot better. They're more dynamic and some hits actually look more brutal in the manga.

Here are some examples:

Vegeta beheading Guldo

Anime:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/anarchistguy/bscap0091.jpg

Manga:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/anarchistguy/mangacopy.jpg

Gohan killing a Cell Jr.
Anime:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/anarchistguy/bscap0090.jpg

Manga:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/anarchistguy/mangagohan.jpg

[Voltron]

Of course. I'd take Brian Drummond's Vegeta over Christopher Sabat's any day. One part of the original dub Namek saga I liked is when Vegeta realised Gohan stole his Dragon Ball. he said something like : "KID!!! YOU WON'T ESCAPE MW WRATH!!!" The line itself wasn't great but DAMN he sounded pissed!!! I don't think Sabat's Vegeta would be able to equal that.

I loved Drummond's Vegeta. He had that sly, almost snake like way of giving the lines that really conveyed Vegeta's underhanded character. When they made the cast swap, his voice was real scratchy, like he was coming down with emphysema.

Also, was it just me, or did the new Krillin in the cast swap sound like Cartman from South Park?

[Anarchistguy]

You could say the same thing about Gohan's voice. Before the cast swap he sounded PERFECT (like an ACTUAL kid) now he sounds like he has something stuck in his throat.

[Drtooth]

Dragon Ball:

(I'm talking about the whole thing -from when Goku and Bulma first meet to Goku's fight with the original Majin Buu-)

Manga ALL THE WAY!!! The pacing is MUCH, MUCH faster (like when Zabon first transformed, as soon as he was done, he IMMEDIATELY started attacking Vegeta, whereas in the anime, he gives a speech, laughs THEN attacks Vegeta. Also, the fight scenes look a HELL of a lot better. They're more dynamic and some hits actually look more brutal in the manga.


I guess it depends on the series. The one thing I like BETTER about the original DB anime (from Goku meeting Bulma to Piccalo's introduction) is there are more storylines, but they don't seem too drug out. Muscle Tower could have used some trimming, but if there's more Seargent Purple (the idiot ninja) the better. Plus, we get great bits with Pilaf and crew, like them trying to pose as Goku to get a Dragon Ball from the Ox King.

DBZ? Well, it seems there's less chatter between the characters, and the fight sequences are over in less than half the time. As I said earlier, I liked it better when Gotenks first has a successful transformation, and you DIDN'T see the fight with him (them?) and Buu. It cut out the weird bit about the old characters palying cards, but it had a better flow to it.

Then again, that's nothing to what Toei did to that Ultimate Muscle thing. Seeing the cartoon, no wonder why everyone hates it. But then I started reading the manga... Friggin' unbelievable. Different jokes, not so much Dik Dik and Wally Capering, the Kid wasn't too much of an idiot, and above all, a more adult atmosphere. The show gave me some mild entertainment, but the book BLEW ME AWAY.

[Anarchistguy]

Then again, that's nothing to what Toei did to that Ultimate Muscle thing. Seeing the cartoon, no wonder why everyone hates it. But then I started reading the manga... Friggin' unbelievable. Different jokes, not so much Dik Dik and Wally Capering, the Kid wasn't too much of an idiot, and above all, a more adult atmosphere. The show gave me some mild entertainment, but the book BLEW ME AWAY.

Are you talking about the ORIGINAL Kinnikuman or his son?

[Drtooth]

I'm talking about his son. His name is Mantaro

The funny thing is, in the Manga, Mantaro isn't too stupid. he's still cowardly, but mostly? He's pretty horny. In fact, Viz edited out ... well... Kid getting excited. At least for the first few issues. They pushed Kinnikuman Sr.'s goofiness on his son in the cartoon. Not to mention they added characters at strange times. I.e. Roxanne (the girl Mantaro is in love with) was introduced much earlier, and in an entirely different fashion. An entire story line that was not printed in the Manga, but was printed as a V-Jump novel (a seperate, kid related, series of graphic novels outside of their respective magazine publishings) was animated in the middle of a Superhuman Olympics storyline.

Of course, I found out they did the same thing with Kinnikuman Sr.'s cartoon in the 1980's. Several characters that were introduced in the early stages of the manga (when the series was more of an Ultraman parody) appeared in later wrestling sagas. They might have been out of place (I've never seen enough of the show to judge) since these sagas were increasingly more dramatic, with less joke time.

My FAVORITE change in the 80's series was a wrestling match between a German Nazi character (named Brockenman) and a wrestler from China (Ramenman, who was such a successful character, he had his own spinoff show). In the book, Ramenman puts Brockenman into a hold that eventually tears his body in half viciously. He laughs, presenting the dismembered corpse to the audience. In the cartoon, instead of being that violent, during the hold, Ramenman is somehow able to turn Brockenman's body into Dough, and make Ramen Noodles out of him. He then eats him.

There USED to be a clip of this on Youtube, before they bannished the Japanese footage. Even the openings/closings have been removed.

But here's the footage from the manga:

http://www.toriyamaworld.com/kinnikuman/volume3/16.jpg

All and all, I'd kill to have Kinnikuman's 1980's show on DVD. Ultimate Muscle was okay, I guess. But I'm a sucker for retro80's animes.

[Drtooth]

I might as well ask...

What is the name of the DBZ movie where Hitler is running around, and is it available in the US on DVD?

[DrSpengler]

Dragonball Z movie #12: Fusion Reborn (http://www.filmsy.com/reviews/dragonball-z-movie-12-%e2%80%9cfusion-reborn%e2%80%9d/)

[Dr. Doom]

I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

EDIT: This was posted before I saw the post above mine. Doesn't seem from the description of Hitler runnin' around like the kinda movie they'd release here when DBZ is considered to be a kids show. Though it is "Uncut" now.

[DaShredder]

In the cut version of movie 12 he has plus symbols on his patch in place of swastikas which seems kind of stupid,odds are:if someone sees nazis in a movie,whether or not the 'math nazis',they're still going to complain.And on Ultimate Muscle,yes the way 4Kids dubbed it..it was like rude toilet humor that really wasn't that funny,as opposed to the funny toilet humor in the manga.I'm trying to get the authentic nisei dvds from japan,but we'll see on that one.Anyhow,on DBZ,alot of peope criticize it,but man I LOVE IT!!! It was one of the first animes I was exposed too,I read the manga too,which is still good,but if you seen the series all the way through it takes away the magic of the cliff-hangers in it. I like the original DB too,but it's alot better in manga form,it's funnier,as the anime seems somewhat boring,maybe it's the dub.Oh and hi,Dr.Tooth,it's KinnikuDude from the AKIA forums,never knew you were a turtle fan!

[Spitfire]

You guys like DBZ so much maybe I should sell you my DBZ toy collection. When I was a kid and I liked the show I made a point to buy every DBZ toy that came out. Now the company that makes them is out of business and Jakks took them over. They re released the toys but I have all the original. Most of them are out of package but their mint. And I have all the IF Labs toys as well, who also went of of business.

These things take up valued space in a relatives house*I'd be beyond shamed to be anywhere near that stuff now* I got other crap to. Like DVDs that music stores wouldn't even take.

[Drtooth]

Dragonball Z movie #12: Fusion Reborn (http://www.filmsy.com/reviews/dragonball-z-movie-12-%e2%80%9cfusion-reborn%e2%80%9d/)

You know what actually burns me up about that? I heard they theatrically released that film in March (in the US), but I couldn't find it playing at any theater in the greater Boston Area. not even the art film houses.

Doesn't seem from the description of Hitler runnin' around like the kinda movie they'd release here when DBZ is considered to be a kids show. Though it is "Uncut" now.

Once again, something that Family Guy and South Park got slack for, all the while being adult shows, while a kid's (older kids, maybe) show in Japan can do the same thing.

AS I've said in my post about Kinnikuman, one of the characters was a Nazi. And that, inturn, got the show banned in Europe. I think it's funny that Japan can look back on it's past with the Nazi's a whole lot more willing than Germany.


You guys like DBZ so much maybe I should sell you my DBZ toy collection. When I was a kid and I liked the show I made a point to buy every DBZ toy that came out. Now the company that makes them is out of business and Jakks took them over. They re released the toys but I have all the original. Most of them are out of package but their mint. And I have all the IF Labs toys as well, who also went of of business.

My DBZ collection consists of a couple packages of funny bones (or whatever they were called) a couple capsule toys, the entire first BK promo, one of the secondary ones, and Majin Buu and Yamucha action figures.

Personally, I'm looking for If Labs classic DB figures, Pilaf, Kid Goku, Yamcha, and Turtle Hermit, specifically, and some of the DB/DBZ 1980's Kinishi (rubber figurines sold in Japanese gumball machines.. Think M.U.S.C.L.E.S.). I also tried to get a large Plush of Turtle Hermit, but they sold out.

[DrSpengler]

You know what actually burns me up about that? I heard they theatrically released that film in March (in the US), but I couldn't find it playing at any theater in the greater Boston Area. not even the art film houses.

Yeah, I know. I saw ana dd for it in Wizard saying it was getting a theatrical release and I was like "Sweet!" Then I couldn't find it at any theater, even the cruddy weed-smelling arthouse theaters.

In retrospect, the movie wasn't so good and the $10 ticket would've been a waste of money, but still, by "theatrical release" did they mean "8 theaters in the whole country"?

[Drtooth]

And DBZ is pretty main stream, too! I always hated how Anime movies are marketed in our country. Even the releases of the Studio Ghibli films weren't good. But then, those damn pokemon films got national releases, up until the fourth one. Yugioh and Digimon too, though I heard Digimon bombed big time.

I'da loved to have seen that on the big screen, even if it cost 10+ bucks, myself. And that was even before I knew it was the one with Hitler.

[DrSpengler]

Howl's Moving Castle got a seriously limited release in my area. Only one giant megaplex in Alexandria was playing (in one theater, only in the evening, and for two weeks total). So needless to say, I missed it.

Likewise, with a Scanner Darkly, which was rotoscoped and not traditionally animated, it only got released in arthouse theaters in my area.

Meanwhile, CGI s*** like Happy Feet, Hoodwinked, Doogle and that crap with the talking baseball bat get nationwide releases.

2D animation is dead in this country. I weep for it.

[DaShredder]

Don't get me started on that kids/cgi crap! Disney,Pixar,etc. are brainwashing little kids into thinking they like it,my little cousin had an entire collection of "Cars" toys before it EVEN came out! He said it was his favorite movie BEFORE he saw it! I'm tired of this stupid illumanti,government-controlled,brain-washing,econimc crap they keep grinding out!!! Film was made: A.To perserve memories and to B.Make things that are entertaining and have substance! And yeah,"MOVIE 12 COMING SOON TO THEATERS EVERYWHERE",My SHELL!

[愛]

My shell? Are you 8?

[Drtooth]

2D animation is dead in this country. I weep for it.

Mmmhhh... well, it's more about what the Masses want why those films were in limited release. After all, it's the corporations who brainwashed people into thinking anime is nothing but Pokemon and Yugioh. I don't feel 2-D is dead yet, since... well... look at the overbearing amount of CGI films we had this year. I think only a handfull were actually successful. If you oversaturate the market with CGI films, people will sooner or later get sick of them.

Personally, I really love Pixar's work. Cars was okay, not their best. Dreamworks and BlueSky I feel are a distant second. I LOVED Robots, and I thought Ice Age 2 was an improvement over the first one. And if Dreamworks makes more lowkey films like Over the Hedge (as opposed to the overblown fiasco known as Sharktale) they'll do alright.

I love all types of animations from all over the world, myself. Even bizzarre existential crap only animation students would ever hear of. The fact of the matter is, no matter how shiney and bright and full the animation looks, it can still suck if the script is junk. Look at Pochahaunas (or however it's spelt). Stunningly beautiful animation, but it was still one of the worst films I've ever seen. Compare that to the Bullwinkle show, which used a crappy Mexican animation studio, but with excellent scripts, it was one of the most memorable shows of all time.

The reason why so many companies use CGI is to cash in on the success of Pixar films and Shrek. Sometimes the animation is stunning, but the scripts are incredibly poor. Like Disney's first solo work, Dinosaur.

But getting back to the topic, Anime films, unless they are based on/associated with a toy line get, at best, an art house limited release. Then again, if DBZ were still popular with the kiddies, we would have had one of these films, but so chopped up, no one over 7 could enjoy them.

[Anarchistguy]

What bugs me the most is people see crap like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon, and they think EVERY ANIME IN THE WHOLE WORLD is like those abominations. But what about Berserk, Gunnm, Guyver 2005 and MPD Psycho? I didn't see any bug-eyed characters in THESE series.

[Drtooth]

Personally, I don't think of Anime as a subgenre of animation at all. The only genres I see are:

Drawn 2-D (Includes digital, cel, rotoscope, pencil tests)
Stop Motion (Puppet/clay, Time Lapse, 2-D paper cutout)
and CGI.

I personally use the term anime to differentiate between the standard american style of animation, so people know specifically I'm talking about that kind. In fact, if the show isn't American native in creation (nowadays everything's animated in Korea and India), I tend to say it's country of origin as an explaination.

[Kendamu]

I was just wondering what the people on this board thought of the Dragon Ball Z series as a whole. I seem to hear a lot of mixed things. I used to watch it when i was a bit younger and was considering re-watching the Un-cut versions of the episdoes, but i dont know if there will really be a difference. So what do you guys think of Dbz and Dbz compared the the uncut episodes? Any episodes where the "uncut" actually makes a big difference?
Necropost!

Getting back to the original discussion, here's what's up:

Seasons 1 and 2 were heavily edited and had the soundtrack changed for the dub but they had awesome voice actors and actresses. Just as a note, there was so much editing in seasons 1 and 2 that 67 Japanese episodes were used to make 53 American episodes.

Seasons 3 and beyond had crappy voice actors and actresses (some of which got a lot better as time went on) and the soundtrack was still changed for the dub. However, there wasn't much visual editing going on.

From Season 3 forward on the DVDs you had the option of watching the uncut Japanese version. In the dub about 64% of the dialouge was extremely wrong (according to some DBZ-obsessed Super Nerd) and so a lot of people choose to watch it in Japanese for the music, the voices, and the uncut-ness.

A year or two ago FUNi started releasing the first season uncut in the "Ultimate Uncut" line. This was to make the voices consistent through the whole series and to finally put DBZ's first two seasons on TV uncut. I know they got at least to when the Ginyu Force showed up when these episodes got onto TV. However, the DVD releases were cancelled sometime within season 1. The soundtrack was also changed for this.

Next month, the first 39 episodes (season 1) of DBZ are being remastered and released on a 6-DVD set for anywhere between $20 and $50 (depending on where you buy it) fully uncut with the current voice actors. You also have the options of viewing it in Japanese, viewing it in English with Japanese soundtrack, or English with American soundtrack. The only controversial thing about this release is that FUNi is putting it in Widescreen (16:9) instead of the original TV broadcast 4:3.

If you like widescreen and don't obsessively care about Dragonball Z this is the deal of a lifetime (which they'll continue to do with future remastered inexpensive DVD sets). Previously it was 3 episodes with crappy encodes for like $25 or $30. The only thing that makes the widescreen a controversy is that Toei animated this show with 4:3 (fullscreen) aspect ratio in mind and to turn 4:3 into 16:9 you need to show about 10% to 15% more on the sides while cutting off the top and bottom about 16% to 20%. This may make the show look somewhat cramped.

Personally, I preordered the first set at CD Universe for $20 (really cheap) and I'm going to save my final opinion on the matter for after I view it. As long as the viewable area gets across the points that are gotten across in the manga/comic version I'll probably be happy with it and will buy the rest of the series as it comes out in this format.

Be warned, though, that they remastered it in 1080i but they're compressing it to 480p for these releases. That means that in a few years they'll start releasing this set again in hi-def and getting this set right now while it's in standard definition will be a waste of money if you don't feel the need to get this set right away as it comes out in standard def.

Conclusion: Don't buy "Ultimate Uncut". Buy the Season 1 set coming out. You can see about 3 different previews for it on http://www.dragonballz.com and pre-oder it from their store for like $35.

[DrSpengler]

I've been pulling my hair out over whether I want the season 1 set or not.

I own the VHS releases of the original Ocean dub of season 1-2, which I adore even with the terrible edits (the voices were just so good).

Now that you mention that the new set will have the option of English voices with the Japanese music (hated the American soundtrack and loved the Japanese music) I might grab the thing. Yet, I hate the fact that they're doing faux widescreen.

Still, if it's as cheap as $20 bucks then I just might pick it up anyway.

[Spitfire]

I saw Howl's Moving Castle in theaters, and Spirited Away, and Princess Monoke. I didn't like Howl's Moving Castle but I bought the other two.

I've also see the Cowboy Bebop movie in theaters*Great movie* and Metropolis which I thought sucked.

But yeah 2-D animation is dead. I miss it to. This CGI crap is fine for a few movies but why all of them? I don't feel like watching something that looks like a cut scene for a video game.

Aw well, I'll take what I can get, I predict movies will become all remakes and generic trash in a few years anyways.

[LogicDonny]

I saw Howl's Moving Castle in theaters, and Spirited Away, and Princess Monoke. I didn't like Howl's Moving Castle but I bought the other two.

I've also see the Cowboy Bebop movie in theaters*Great movie* and Metropolis which I thought sucked.

But yeah 2-D animation is dead. I miss it to. This CGI crap is fine for a few movies but why all of them? I don't feel like watching something that looks like a cut scene for a video game.

Aw well, I'll take what I can get, I predict movies will become all remakes and generic trash in a few years anyways.

There has no been any godo animation movies in a long time.. End of evangleion was excellent, spirited away and princess monoke. I love those 2 movies.

I wish they would contuine the show Samurai Jack. That show was just so artistic and so well done. the show had such great animation and style..

[DrSpengler]

Aw well, I'll take what I can get, I predict movies will become all remakes and generic trash in a few years anyways.

I think we're at that junction right now, honestly.


And I really liked Howl's Moving Castle. Wasn't Miyazaki's best, but still pretty good. Faptacular animation, at any rate.


Honestly, if the only animated films we're ever going to see in America from now on are CG-animated ones, they could at LEAST stop with the family comedies. Where are the CG action and sci-fi films? Lots of potential with the genre but its all being wasted on generic comedies brimming over with obnoxious celebrities.

The last CG-animated action movie to get a theatrical release in America (that I can recall) was Final Fantasy: Spirits Within. I know the movie sucked and didn't do the genre any favors, but that's no reason to condemn all CG-animated action flicks forever.

[Spitfire]

We have CGI movies like that, and they crash and burn because their different. Like A Scanner Darkly. I didn't think it was a bad flick myself.

[DrSpengler]

We have CGI movies like that, and they crash and burn because their different. Like A Scanner Darkly. I didn't think it was a bad flick myself.

Yeah, I thought that one was pretty good, too. It only got released in arthouse theaters in my area and most considered it too "weird".

I thought it was a lot like Videodrome and Naked Lunch, myself.

[Kendamu]

I've been pulling my hair out over whether I want the season 1 set or not.

I own the VHS releases of the original Ocean dub of season 1-2, which I adore even with the terrible edits (the voices were just so good).

Now that you mention that the new set will have the option of English voices with the Japanese music (hated the American soundtrack and loved the Japanese music) I might grab the thing. Yet, I hate the fact that they're doing faux widescreen.

Still, if it's as cheap as $20 bucks then I just might pick it up anyway.
It's up to about $31 (plus shipping) now. http://www.DeepDiscountDVD.com has it for around the same price and shipping is free.

If you still can't decide I'll give a review of the set after I watch it next month.

[DrSpengler]

It's up to about $31 (plus shipping) now. http://www.DeepDiscountDVD.com has it for around the same price and shipping is free.

If you still can't decide I'll give a review of the set after I watch it next month.


Cool. I might wait, then. If I *do* buy the thing it'll likely be at Best Buy; but they're usually pretty cheap.

[Ra]

Ah...Dragon Ball Z...my deep dark secret. I used to watch it all the time when the Freiza Saga began. It was my favorite story arch of all time. But when Trunks came, I just felt the magic vanish. What? Time Travel? Please... however, the movie conserning how he came to the past was nice. But that was it. Also, for DBZ, the power-ups were pointless. I remember in the end of the Cell Saga or whatever, Goku was powering up for a Spirit Bomb, and he was powering up, for what, 5 episodes? Maybe 6? Some rediculous time period anyway :roll: But in the original series, when Goku has a power punch, he did it in 5 seconds tops. That's it. No great wait or anything. It kind of stunned me at how quick it was.

Speaking of the original series, I watch it all the time on CN. Mondays to Fridays at 8:30pm. Very good stuff, like showing how useful Mr. Popo actually was in the original series. In DBZ, he just stands there doing pretty much nothing. In DB, he was defeating Goku in hand-to-hand combat.

Maybe some time in the future I'll watch the uncut versions of DBZ, but for now, I'm content with the original series playing :)