BODYCOUNT

[surfingmikey]

Hi, I was wanting to know if any of you guys have ever read the tmnt comic called BODYCOUNT. My cousin Mikey got it and it looks like a Spawn comic for Ninja Turtles. Could anyone tell me any information on it?

[xZAOx]

was done by kevin eastman and some other guy i believe. i believe image produced it. there is also the 'casey and raphael' series, i think that is the first couple of issues preceding the bodycount series? i was always confused about that.

[Karpo_007]

Casey jones & Raphael have only one issue. And Bodcount continues it i've heard. It's one by Eastman and Bisley. Im planning to get that sometime.

[Sparvid]

Eastman & Bisley? Sounds like something I should try to read sometime in the future...

[Karpo_007]

Well they did the Casey Jones & Raphael too. I have understood that it's not part of official continium, but could be fun nevertheless.

[tekcop]

Bisley... Bisley... Simon Bisley? Hmm... why does that name sound so familiar?

[Karpo_007]

I think he has worked on Heavy Metal...

[PWDESAI]

It wasn't all that good, if you want i can scan it and you guys can take a peak and see if you want to buy it or not.

[Karpo_007]

I have seen some pictures of it, I know that it's style is pretty diffrent.

[Sparvid]

Bisley... Bisley... Simon Bisley? Hmm... why does that name sound so familiar?He's The Lobo artist! :D

Oh, and I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit of it... :)

[Aztec General]

Yeah this one is basically a murderfest. Basically each page has a major shootout where 25 or so people get their heads, eyes, faces, arms, and/or legs blown off. It's quite violent. It really wasn't much of a read though.

[Sparvid]

Sounds like Bisley to me... ;)

[beaker]

I remember fondly the 1996 era Image attempt at reviving the TMNT. First there was the cool Jim Lee renvisions of the characters, with those Image TMNT action figures. They were pretty cool, I think they looked neater than some of the new sculpts out by Playmates. I also remember BodyCount, Heavy Metal magazine's Simon Bisley doing his take on TMNT. Was ok. They were trying to go for an R rated super dark and violent take on the TMNT. The only tim eyoull ever see TMNT out of a pg/pg-13 context. Then of course a year later the Next Mutation show. Been quiet ever since, til now.

[Aztec General]

I remember fondly the 1996 era Image attempt at reviving the TMNT. First there was the cool Jim Lee renvisions of the characters, with those Image TMNT action figures. They were pretty cool, I think they looked neater than some of the new sculpts out by Playmates. I also remember BodyCount, Heavy Metal magazine's Simon Bisley doing his take on TMNT. Was ok. They were trying to go for an R rated super dark and violent take on the TMNT. The only tim eyoull ever see TMNT out of a pg/pg-13 context. Then of course a year later the Next Mutation show. Been quiet ever since, til now.

If you think that Bodycount was the "only time" that the TMNT went above a PG-13 rating then you obviously haven't read much of Mirage. While I will admit that even the most violent Mirage issues, while bloody, weren't total bloodbaths like Bodycount, many of the storylines were often very dark in tone (Leonardo #1 and issues 10-12, Return to New York, Shades of Grey, City At War..etc.). Mature subject matter and tone are enough for a book to be considered "adult". It does not need to be spewing violence, sex, and obscenities.

[Karpo_007]

Mirage didn' have much gore in it... Even the beheading of Shredder wasn't very graphical...

[Wingnut]

Was the Image one the one where the turtles got their faces blown up?

[Karpo_007]

Raph got. Leo lost a hand and Don died and became a cyborg. Im glad volume 4 ignored those...

[Eye of Sarnath]

I never liked Bodycount much, not much of a story really. And what Image did the Turtles and Splinter was horrible, but otherwise I thought it was pretty good... after the initial shock of seeing most of the TMNT getting maimed. If they hand't done that, the comic might have been a bigger success.

[Karpo_007]

So I guess I won't buy it then...

[Nickokapo]

Never readed it but i've seen lots of pictures of it and i'm sure i haven't seen a tmnt comic as gory ever since i readed image...gah, at least mirage was violent but still good, bodycount seems to be just plain gory.
It's good to see raph and kc kick some ass again tho :evilgrin:
And don't even get me started on the excellent art...

[Straight-Edge]

I seem to remember Bodycount being referred to in the Image series. And Casey was sporting the mask he foun in Bodycount durign the Image series... So if we (and Peter) are declaring Image's stuff an Alternate Universe kinda story, then it seems Bodycount would be included in that continuity, as well as the two Savage Dragon Crossover books.

Sad that I actually enjoy that continuity better than the Mirage one. And even weirder that I'm looking forward to the Dreamwave book with even more anticipation.

I guess, for my money, the Mirage continuity is too sparse (Volume I had about 30 issues of of 60 that "counted" as far as story, and only 20 issues since then spanning a ten year period since the end of City at War... 50 issues in fifteen years? C'mon! There's so many dead-periods in the overall Mirage continuity that are begging for stories. Peter wants to march ahead continuously, but we've barely *been* with his turtles... and they're already almost middle-aged.

Image has a nice tight continuity that spans one year in the Turtles' lives, running 23 issues, plus a crossover, and a 4-issue related miniseries. Half as many "in-continuity" issues as Mirage, but done in only a two to three year span. However, now that it's an abandoned alternate-universe, it's no longer very interesting.

Hopefully, between the passionate writing of Peter David (or at least he'd beter be passionate, with his own kids to please), and the killer art Dreamwave seems to display, and a tie-in with the new cartoon and toyline, the new era of TMNT may be the most cohesive and respectable the overall property's ever been!

[Karpo_007]

True, Mirage volume 1 has many guest artists, but still most of their stuff is good. Of course there are few exceptions also.

I don't like IMAGE. Larssen just took too many liberties. If you could accept the totally pointless mutilation, then you could like it. Im glad that it is just one unofficial continuity.

[Aztec General]

sXe makes a point about the Mirage continuity it is truly sparse. But IMHO the stories told in that period were exceptional. Few comic books have the feel of the Mirage series. Look at 48-62 Shades of Grey and City At War. Name another comic that can span 15 issues and tell mutliple poignant stories, without getting boring.
Just so we all can follow here's what I would consider Mirage Canon:
Vol. 1 #1-21, 4 Microseries, Tales of the TMNT, 24-28, 48-62, Vol. 2 #1-13, Vol. 4 #1-...

As for Image, I just didn't like it. I respect Larsen in the sense that he was trying to take the TMNT into a new direction and make them straight forward super heros. Unfortunately by doing that he lost the "intimateness" that was part of the Mirage series. Of course the other main beef I had is that within 23 issues he mutilated everyone of the main characters beyond recognition. What in the world was he thinking?

[Karpo_007]

Yes those are part of the Canon, but I like many of the quest artist stuff too. I have yet to start "City at War" next I will be reading issue #43. I heard it is the best TMNT there is.

[Sparvid]

Just so we all can follow here's what I would consider Mirage Canon:
Vol. 1 #1-21, 4 Microseries, Tales of the TMNT, 24-28, 48-62, Vol. 2 #1-13, Vol. 4 #1-...I'd like to remove #16 (the first Mark Martin issue, a fun story, but not in continuity) and add #29 (A.C. Farley), #42 (Renet again), #45 (Leatherhead), #46-47 (more time traveling, and the origin of the Foot :)).

[Karpo_007]

Yeah some how disliked the Matin'äs issues... #16 wasn't bad, but 22 and 23... Well 38-40 are even worse. But rest of the books so far have been great!

[xZAOx]

even though its not part of the continuity, mike zulli's 3 issues are some of THE best turtle comics. i would LOVE if he did his own series with them.

also, alot that you didnt mention fits in the story. i guess there is two ways to view continuity...either as

1)something relevant that pertains to everything else that happens or
2)something that fits in with the rest, without making any contradiction to past events, and still fits in with how things happen in the future

that being said, alot of other good comics can fit into the mirage continuity like:

24-29 (rick veitch's story was good. and its referenced in a later comic too, but by another outside artist)
37, 42, 43, 47+

if i was telling someone to check out the mirage issues, all id really leave out are the goofy ones. hell, i might even tell them to leave out #s 14-15. i never really liked those.

[Karpo_007]

14? Unmentionables? Goofy? No way. That was a very good issue...

[Aztec General]

sXe makes a point about the Mirage continuity it is truly sparse. But IMHO the stories told in that period were exceptional. Few comic books have the feel of the Mirage series. Look at 48-62 Shades of Grey and City At War. Name another comic that can span 15 issues and tell mutliple poignant stories, without getting boring.
Just so we all can follow here's what I would consider Mirage Canon:
Vol. 1 #1-21, 4 Microseries, Tales of the TMNT, 24-28, 48-62, Vol. 2 #1-13, Vol. 4 #1-...

As for Image, I just didn't like it. I respect Larsen in the sense that he was trying to take the TMNT into a new direction and make them straight forward super heros. Unfortunately by doing that he lost the "intimateness" that was part of the Mirage series. Of course the other main beef I had is that within 23 issues he mutilated everyone of the main characters beyond recognition. What in the world was he thinking?

I don't know why I keep coming up as a "Guest"? I'm (Rat King) logged in.

I'd be willing to throw in Issues 29, 42, and 45-47. They were good issues and I don't see why they shouldn't be counted. I too love Mike Zulli's 3 part series. It was certainly not continutity but I'm glad he did it. I'd like to see him as one of the talents for the new Tales of the TMNT series. I don't have #43 perhaps I'll have to order it.

[Karpo_007]

To me Zullis issues seemed really strange... Not any real plot. But cool nevertheless. Weidest part, [SPOILER WARNING] First Shredder sends foot after the turtles, Then heals one of them... [/SPOILER WARNING]

[xZAOx]

im thinking it had a lot to do with japanesse culture or some such. the best reason i could come up with, was splinter asked the help of osmething he shouldnt have, and got in too deep. and to save all their hides (including the shredders), the turtle had to be healed and defeat the demon.

maybe if the turtle had died due to the wound, then the demon would be pissed at shredder for taking his "toad-boy"...thats my reasoning at least

but still, i love 'em. the art is awesome, and i love the attitude of them.

[Karpo_007]

Well it is really diffren't... So symbolic, there are probably as many theories about what happened than there are readers...

[MadPriest]

I seem to remember Bodycount being referred to in the Image series. And Casey was sporting the mask he foun in Bodycount durign the Image series... So if we (and Peter) are declaring Image's stuff an Alternate Universe kinda story, then it seems Bodycount would be included in that continuity, as well as the two Savage Dragon Crossover books.

Sad that I actually enjoy that continuity better than the Mirage one. And even weirder that I'm looking forward to the Dreamwave book with even more anticipation.

I guess, for my money, the Mirage continuity is too sparse (Volume I had about 30 issues of of 60 that "counted" as far as story, and only 20 issues since then spanning a ten year period since the end of City at War... 50 issues in fifteen years? C'mon! There's so many dead-periods in the overall Mirage continuity that are begging for stories. Peter wants to march ahead continuously, but we've barely *been* with his turtles... and they're already almost middle-aged.

Image has a nice tight continuity that spans one year in the Turtles' lives, running 23 issues, plus a crossover, and a 4-issue related miniseries. Half as many "in-continuity" issues as Mirage, but done in only a two to three year span. However, now that it's an abandoned alternate-universe, it's no longer very interesting.

Hopefully, between the passionate writing of Peter David (or at least he'd beter be passionate, with his own kids to please), and the killer art Dreamwave seems to display, and a tie-in with the new cartoon and toyline, the new era of TMNT may be the most cohesive and respectable the overall property's ever been!

Yeah EXCELLENT point on the barely "been" with turtles thing and they are middle aged thing, I never thought about that, yeah I really wish Mirage would have had alot more ..etc...such as you say
good call