New to comics, lots 'o questions

[Skinkie]

Hi, I've just recently decided to try to read all the old TMNT comics, used to be very into the old show and movies, and with the new one coming out soon, it just seemed to be a good plan. So I went and bought the first 12 issues in those color reprints off e-bay, figuring I could buy books 2,3,4,and 5 TPB off the main site, giving me numbers 1-23 easy. I also won an ebay auction that gave me issues #25-41, Raphael#1, Michealangelo #1, Donatello #1, the The River TPB, Tales of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles TPB, Challenges Paperback, #1-33 of the Archie series and a few various specials (all for $40), so I'm off to a decent start. But I have a few questions that I figured people here could answer:

1) Is there any particular point in the continuity that is best for reading the Tales book? Or could I just read it now having only read the first 11 issues?

2) How hard is it to get issues #50 and 51, the City at War arc sounds awesome, but those are the two books the main site doesn't have that I'll need.

3) Does the Challenges book fit into the continuity in any particular time, or is it more of a one off that doesn't touch the main story?

and
4) Why have I seen almost no mention of Volume two anywhere? I've never seen any of them up on e-bay, the forums here don't seem to mention it anywhere, is there any particular reason for it?

Thanks for helping an old fan get into something new.
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KAWASAKI VN1500R (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Kawasaki_VN1500R)

[Aztec General]

1) Is there any particular point in the continuity that is best for reading the Tales book? Or could I just read it now having only read the first 11 issues?

2) How hard is it to get issues #50 and 51, the City at War arc sounds awesome, but those are the two books the main site doesn't have that I'll need.

3) Does the Challenges book fit into the continuity in any particular time, or is it more of a one off that doesn't touch the main story?

and
4) Why have I seen almost no mention of Volume two anywhere? I've never seen any of them up on e-bay, the forums here don't seem to mention it anywhere, is there any particular reason for it?

Thanks for helping an old fan get into something new.

1) It would probably help to have read through Vol. 1 before entering Tales Vol. 2, but it's not necessary.

2) It's pretty hard to get #50 specifically. Check ebay, mycomicshop.com, milehighcomics.com, etc.

3) Challenges doesn't necessarily fit into canon. It's a few interesting short stories but nothing more.

4) I like Vol. 2 a lot. It continues the story from Vol. 1. And it's in color.

[discordiatookie]

that is one pretty awesome win you got there from ebay!!

tales is mostly set in random points of the turtles' lifes, and are mostly one off, erm, tales! some are continued though, but i wouldnt let that stop you! the majorty of time you'll just get a little reference, and if you're still confused, just ask and i'm sure one of us here will help ya!

i really dig vol 2 also, its vol 3 you have to beware for! (although i like it, it aint classed as part of TMNT continuity these days, peter laird decided to kinda forget it ever happened!)

[Jon]

As others have said, great haul.

I've gotten quite an amount of TMNT Comics myself (mainly when they were first released). Having the entirety of Archie's TMNT (and the various Mini-Series, Specials, etc.). As well as some old Mirage, and the current series. Along with the current Tales series.

Haven't read many for a while, may see about digging 'em out. :)

[Chris]

Peter Laird has said a few times that, to him, only the stories done in house by Mirage are part of the "official continuity".

Here's a chronological list of those stories from Vol. 1 and Tales Vol. 1;

Vol. 1 #9 – The Passing
Vol. 1 #1 – The Turtles’ Origin is Told
Vol. 1 #2 – TMNT Vs. the Mousers
Vol. 1 #3 – The Great Chase
Raphael – Me, Myself and I
Vol. 1 #4 – Rescuing Master Splinter
Fugitoid #1 – The Fugitoid’s Origin (not essential, summarised in #5)
Vol. 1 #5 – Teaming Up with Fugitoid
Vol. 1 #6 – The Triceraton Homeworld
Vol. 1 #7 – All is Revealed
Michelangelo – The Christmas Aliens
Vol. 1 #8 – Team Up with Cerebus (Peter Laird has said many times this issue will be re-released when he does the new collected books of all continuity TMNT stories to remove Cerebus)
Donatello – Kirby and the Warp Crystal
Tales Vol. 1 #5 – Complete Carnage and Radical
Tales Vol. 1 #6 – Leatherhead
Tales Vol. 1 #7 – The Return of Savanti Romero
Tales Vol. 1 #3 – All Hallow’s Thieves
Leonardo – What Goes Around… Comes Around!
Vol. 1 #10 – Silent Partner
Vol. 1 #11 – True Stories
Tales Vol. 1 #1 – A Tale of the TMNT (side story set during #11)
Tales Vol. 1 #2 – Nobody’s Fool
Vol. 1 #12 – Survivalists
Tales Vol. 1 #4 – I, Monster
Vol. 1 #13 – The People’s Choice
Vol. 1 #14 – The Unmentionables
Vol. 1 #15 – Dome Doom
Vol. 1 #17 – Distractions
Vol. 1 #19 – Return to New York Part 1
Vol. 1 #20 – Return to New York Part 2
Vol. 1 #21 – Return to New York Part 3
Vol. 1 #27 – Dreams of Stone
Vol. 1 #28 – Sons of the Silent Age (I'm not counting the page refering to "The River" since that story wasn't by a Mirage writer and don't know if Peter Laird counts that story as part of the official cannon)
Vol. 1 #29 - Men of Shadow
Vol. 1 #45 – Leatherhead, Too
Vol. 1 #46 – Masks Part 1
Vol. 1 #47 – Masks Part 2
Vol. 1 #48 – Shades of Grey Part 1
Vol. 1 #49 – Shades of Grey Part 2
Vol. 1 #50 – City at War Part 1
Vol. 1 #51 – City at War Part 2
Vol. 1 #52 – City at War Part 3
Vol. 1 #53 – City at War Part 4
Vol. 1 #54 – City at War Part 5
Vol. 1 #55 – City at War Part 6
Vol. 1 #56 – City at War Part 7
Vol. 1 #57 – City at War Part 8
Vol. 1 #58 – City at War Part 9
Vol. 1 #59 – City at War Part 10
Vol. 1 #60 – City at War Part 11
Vol. 1 #61 – City at War Part 12
Vol. 1 #62 – City at War Part 13

Challenges would fit in between #11 and #19 (probably closer to #11) if you include it.

Vol. 2 carries on from Vol. 1. TMNT (Vol. 4) is set about 15 years after Vol. 2. Tales Vol;.2 is mainly covering the gaps between Vol. 2 and 4 (but does have some stories set before/during Vol. 1 and during Vol. 4). My advice is to try Vol. 1 and Tales Vol. 1 and if you like those try Vol.2 and some of the newer stuff.

[Ratchet]

Has there ever been any official word on the Bodycount books? Considering the first part came from Mirage and the rest through image AND that it's Kevin Eastman's final Turtles tale... I'm pretty sure I read that Pete wasn't a fan of it somewhere a long time ago, but it's a fun little tale (if a little excessive!).

I'm also interested in knowing whether or not Mirage artists who worked on image books have their work in continuity - such as the Savage Dragon crossover where the living statue appears in TMNT Vol. 2 and Complete Carnage's return in the second crossover with the Dragon, and even the Flaming Carrot & Usagi crossovers...

[Chris]

I don't think it's ever been said.

I know that around the start of Vol. 4 a few people emailed the official site asking about what was in continuity and none of the cross overs or Body Count were included in the lists returned. I think references to those events (like the page linking to "The River" in "Sons of the Silent Age") are just being over looked/ignored as far as continuity is concerned.

I'm not sure about the AC Farley issues of Volume 1 (#29 and 43). I think they are as they'd done by someone I would consider a Mirage writer/artist, but they weren't on the list given out around the start of Vol. 4. There are some Mirage issues that aren't on the list, mostly obviously out of continuity stories like "Shell of the Dragon", but I thought Farley's could fit easily.

[Ratchet]

Do you remember where the list appeared Chris?

[Aztec General]

Peter Laird has said a few times that, to him, only the stories done in house by Mirage are part of the "official continuity".

Here's a chronological list of those stories from Vol. 1 and Tales Vol. 1;

Vol. 1 #9 – The Passing
Vol. 1 #1 – The Turtles’ Origin is Told
Vol. 1 #2 – TMNT Vs. the Mousers
Vol. 1 #3 – The Great Chase
Raphael – Me, Myself and I
Vol. 1 #4 – Rescuing Master Splinter
Fugitoid #1 – The Fugitoid’s Origin (not essential, summarised in #5)
Vol. 1 #5 – Teaming Up with Fugitoid
Vol. 1 #6 – The Triceraton Homeworld
Vol. 1 #7 – All is Revealed
Michelangelo – The Christmas Aliens
Vol. 1 #8 – Team Up with Cerebus (Peter Laird has said many times this issue will be re-released when he does the new collected books of all continuity TMNT stories to remove Cerebus)
Donatello – Kirby and the Warp Crystal
Tales Vol. 1 #5 – Complete Carnage and Radical
Tales Vol. 1 #6 – Leatherhead
Tales Vol. 1 #7 – The Return of Savanti Romero
Tales Vol. 1 #3 – All Hallow’s Thieves
Leonardo – What Goes Around… Comes Around!
Vol. 1 #10 – Silent Partner
Vol. 1 #11 – True Stories
Tales Vol. 1 #1 – A Tale of the TMNT (side story set during #11)
Tales Vol. 1 #2 – Nobody’s Fool
Vol. 1 #12 – Survivalists
Tales Vol. 1 #4 – I, Monster
Vol. 1 #13 – The People’s Choice
Vol. 1 #14 – The Unmentionables
Vol. 1 #15 – Dome Doom
Vol. 1 #17 – Distractions
Vol. 1 #19 – Return to New York Part 1
Vol. 1 #20 – Return to New York Part 2
Vol. 1 #21 – Return to New York Part 3
Vol. 1 #27 – Dreams of Stone
Vol. 1 #28 – Sons of the Silent Age (I'm not counting the page refering to "The River" since that story wasn't by a Mirage writer and don't know if Peter Laird counts that story as part of the official cannon)
Vol. 1 #45 – Leatherhead, Too
Vol. 1 #46 – Masks Part 1
Vol. 1 #47 – Masks Part 2
Vol. 1 #48 – Shades of Grey Part 1
Vol. 1 #49 – Shades of Grey Part 2
Vol. 1 #50 – City at War Part 1
Vol. 1 #51 – City at War Part 2
Vol. 1 #52 – City at War Part 3
Vol. 1 #53 – City at War Part 4
Vol. 1 #54 – City at War Part 5
Vol. 1 #55 – City at War Part 6
Vol. 1 #56 – City at War Part 7
Vol. 1 #57 – City at War Part 8
Vol. 1 #58 – City at War Part 9
Vol. 1 #59 – City at War Part 10
Vol. 1 #60 – City at War Part 11
Vol. 1 #61 – City at War Part 12
Vol. 1 #62 – City at War Part 13

Challenges would fit in between #11 and #19 (probably closer to #11) if you include it.

Vol. 2 carries on from Vol. 1. TMNT (Vol. 4) is set about 15 years after Vol. 2. Tales Vol;.2 is mainly covering the gaps between Vol. 2 and 4 (but does have some stories set before/during Vol. 1 and during Vol. 4). My advice is to try Vol. 1 and Tales Vol. 1 and if you like those try Vol.2 and some of the newer stuff.


Vol. 1 #29 "Men of Shadow" is as well. It's even referenced in Vol. 4. Otherwise great and accurate list.

[Chris]

Thanks Rat King, guess that confirms that Farley's #29 and 43 are counted as official continuity.

Trist, the list was printed by a few people on this board a few years ago. I don't think it was ever done as chronological (just Vol. #1-..., Tales #1-...), I worked out where to place the Tales issues myself using in comic dates, release dates and story (like where the TMNT in NY or Northampton, etc.) so there may be one or two clashes between that list and the official chronology should Peter Laird release it. I know some people have some of the Tales issues between Return to New York and City at War since there's a year in between and very few cannon stories taking place.

[Aztec General]

#43's status in continuity has been of considerable debate. I'm reasonably certain that it was addressed directly and ultimately stated by Dan Berger (or was it Peter Laird??) that it was NOT to be counted. It could really go either way. The story doesn't contradict anything in the TMNT world, nor is it too far out compared to some of the stuff in the new Tales line. For the time being I'd leave it out of continuity though.

#29 is confirmed to be in continuity though because Berger had confirmed it, and it was referenced in Vol. 4 #12. The reference occurs while Raph was fighting a group of wannabe vampires; he states that he had previously fought REAL vampires and that the wannabes didn't match up (the TMNT and Casey fought a group of real vampires in Vol. 1 #29).

[DrSpengler]

Is there anything keeping #42, "Juliet's Revenge" from being canon? It has numerous references to previous volume 1 stories (the cryptozoologist that detains April and Casey has photos and files on a number of TMNT characters from vol. 1 and Tales). It also features the wife of Savanti Romero looking for retribution for the death of her husband from Tales #7. It also premieres Renet as an intelligent adult instead of a giggling valley girl, much in tune with her Vol. 4 characterization.

[Chris]

Ok, 29 in and 43 out!

Yeah I remember that reference, but because there was no "*see Vol.1 #29" reference in the issue I wasn't sure if he was refering to #29 or if it was a "Tale" yet to be told. If Berger or Laird confirmed 29 and 43 out that's more than good enough for me.

[DrSpengler]

Also, is there anything contradictory in #44, "the Violent Underground"?

Is something only canon if it's been confirmed by a membr of the Mirage staff, or can it be considered canon if there's nothing contradictory about it?

[Aztec General]

Also, is there anything contradictory in #44, "the Violent Underground"?

Is something only canon if it's been confirmed by a membr of the Mirage staff, or can it be considered canon if there's nothing contradictory about it?

I would only go by what is confirmed. Laird has been pretty clear in stating that nearly anything from the outside artist period from Vol. 1 isn't cannon. Laird/Eastman or in house artists alone are generally accepted.

[DrSpengler]

Ah okay.

But what about the likes of "Juliet's Revenge"? No one on staff has ever coem out and said "it's canon" but current Vol. 4 stories have continued on from plot points it has introduced (Renet's new maturity, for instance). Should we just go ahead and count it since, in a way, Vol. 4 is referencing it?

[Skinkie]

Maybe we should start another thread where the first post is a list of what is currently considered canon, preferably in the probable chronological order(like here) and it can be updated to reflect any official changes made by Mirage. It seems like a good thing to have sticky'd to the top of this forum.
________
Lamborghini bravo specifications (http://www.lamborghini-tech.com/wiki/Lamborghini_Bravo)

[DrSpengler]

I was about to do that, just now...

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=17481