What Do You Think Of Jim Lawson's Work

[CJStyles]

Now I know he's been working on the TMNT books for quite sometime but honestly I really don't like the way he draws the turtles sometimes. Certain angles he draws them in just doesn't look right. What do you think?

[Aztec General]

Do we really need to reopen this can of worms again? :roll:

[VaughnMichael]

Do we really need to reopen this can of worms again? :roll:
no unless it resurrects the shredder shark again hahahah:|

[Mandi-chan]

I like his work from Volume 1 (Return to New York, City at War, Tales of TMNT Vol.1).

But from what I've seen of Volume 4...well, I just don't like it.

Part of it's the inking...they could put more effort into the inking...but his artwork now still comes off as lazy compared to his older art. The TMNT themselves still look fine, but everyone else (Splinter, and all humans) look horrible from what I've seen.

[VaughnMichael]

I like his work from Volume 1 (Return to New York, City at War, Tales of TMNT Vol.1).

But from what I've seen of Volume 4...well, I just don't like it.

Part of it's the inking...they could put more effort into the inking...but his artwork now still comes off as lazy compared to his older art. The TMNT themselves still look fine, but everyone else (Splinter, and all humans) look horrible from what I've seen.
I loved his volume 1 work also....but see I'm not quite so sure it has all that much to do with the inking which is done by the wonderfull Eric Talbot btw not Jim Lawson.
If you look at the work he's done on the tmnt comic strip and some of the issues he did for archie You will see his style is that of a cartoonish style.
I've begun to wonder if infact his work would be even worse at this point if it wasn't for the inking style of Eric.
It seems to me though that the two styles do no go very well and if I was going to keep using Jim Lawson as the person who is illustrating my story I would hire a differnt inker for his pencils. That's just my 2 cents.

[cormano]

i love his work when he's drawing the turtles and environments and most stuff… but most of his humans look interchangable, that's the only thing i don't like.

[Roseangelo]

In the early 80s, Lawson's art seemed to reflect what he was drawing for. Thus his art for the ocassional Archie book or comic strip was cartoony and his Return to New York and Tales Vol. 1 art was very similar to Eastman & Laird. The cartoony stuff never worked for me, but the RTNY and Tales art is excellent.

When he started the regular penciling gig with Shades of Grey & City at War his style became more settled and I believe more reflective of what his actual personal style is. This took a little getting used to, but ultimately worked rather well.

The Vol. 2 art I think suffered because it was in color, but it was still decent.

Vol. 4 & Tales Vol. 2, though... I hate to say it, but it's a bit embarassing even as a fan. It started out ok, but has only slid downhill. It looks rushed with very little effort given. Talbot has a very unique inking style (which I happen to love) that probably is not best suited for Lawson's pencils, but I really don't think a different inker would solve any of the problems with it.

When/if the series comes out of hiatus, it would be refreshing to see someone new behind the pencils. There is *so* much available talent that could do a kickass job with the book, which would also likely increase its mainstream appeal and overall success. I just wish I could be optimistic that that would actually happen.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I think he's a good artist. Granted, he's art style doesn't look as fancy as someone like Kevin Eastman, but he's definatley got all the fundimentals down.

I do think he's work would be better complemented in color though.

[CJStyles]

Yeah it is a little cartoonish(and its a comic!) such as Casey. For the City at War I was disappointed that A.C. Farley wasn't doing the pencils because the covers were great

[Spitfire]

He sucks now, his glory days are over. And his humans look horrid.

[Ratchet]

They looked pretty damn good in Blind Sight... though they felt a little rushed in Tales #25

[Raven]

Jawson use to be one of my favorite artists when he was kicking ass with volume one....but now I cant even stand to pick up a TMNT comic because of his art (and the stories but thats a different topic all together)

What can I say? If I was a publisher and needed an artist for my book lawson would never even be a consideration, sure they claim he draws that way because its easier but I'm sorry when it comes to drawing comics you dont take the road thats easier, you take the one thats more work because in the end you get something thats far greater and more fun to work on.

But then again its just an opinion, I believe most of us just hate his art now because we've been spoiled by his magnificent art in city at war and return to new york, it really sucks to know he can do that but he choices to take this lazy easy way.

[Aztec General]

They looked pretty damn good in Blind Sight... though they felt a little rushed in Tales #25

I agree Blindsight was easily some of his best work.

[Ratchet]

There were some genuine "wow!" moments for me in the first issue of the mini (not the tales issue), particularly the expressions on people's faces.

[R-iZZy]

Do we really need to reopen this can of worms again? :roll:

LOL! Rat King already knows what to expect of this dude's work.

Personally, I love his work in volume one. Anything after that has been trash, as far as art goes. His turtle designs are decent now, but his humans are just freakin' ugly as hell. Laird could hire better.

[Aztec General]

LOL! Rat King already knows what to expect of this dude's work.


No. Actually I was referring to the unnecessary mean spiritedness that tends to arrive when his art is discussed. Sadly there have been many people here who can't express criticismi in unviscious terms. It's been discussed to death, I'd really rather move on at this point, hence my comment.

[BigApple3AM]

I think it's obvious Laird could pick from a huge list of artists willing to do TMNT, but I think he goes with Lawson because they're friends and share interests other than the turtles (motorcycles, etc...).

I'm going to be honest, art is subjective, but when it comes to comic books you want someone that will sell the book. So while we may not have right to say his art is crap artistically speaking, we can definitely comment all we want as consumers. In this sense I'm glad Laird isn't trying to just pimp the turtles out to whatever demographic it would sell to the most. One could argue E+L have done that with the cartoons, and certainly I can't fault them for that or I wouldn't have known about turtles in the first place, but when it comes to comics I'm glad there's more a sense of integrity rather than greed.

I may have said some bad stuff about Lawson in the past, but I take it all back, and I admit I was a dumbass for saying it. He's a good artist who delivers the book on time, and for those who don't like his style there's always Tales.

[R-iZZy]

No. Actually I was referring to the unnecessary mean spiritedness that tends to arrive when his art is discussed. Sadly there have been many people here who can't express criticismi in unviscious terms. It's been discussed to death, I'd really rather move on at this point, hence my comment.
That's kinda what I meant. There's not too many who can hold their tongue fully when speaking on Lawson's work.

I'd bash it simply because I know Lawson can do better, and he's not even trying (or so it seems). I just don't understand how someone can illustrate some of the best arcs in volume one so skillfully, but then fall off as time progressed.

[Aztec General]

That's kinda what I meant. There's not too many who can hold their tongue fully when speaking on Lawson's work.


Fair enough.

[Buslady]

All of his earlier works were fine...V4 work...what happened?! *gags*
His turtles look like walking boxes with some pretty bad skin diseases, their snouts are squares. His women look like men on female hormones, and their lips look silly drawn the way they are. Dont get me started on the tails...*.* (the turtles, not the people hahaah)

If I were to choose an new artist, Dooney's done some good work.

[Raph'N'Roll]

Yeah he's done some superb work in volume one(which makes it even worse), but his art style at the moment is really begining to tire, it's definitely not the selling point of the comic, and would probably turn off any casual fans who happened to pick it up.
In fact I think it would suit a more quirky and crazy cartoon like Ren and Stimpy.
Visually Tales is superb and in my opinion the more enjoyable of the two comics.

[VaughnMichael]

Yeah he's done some superb work in volume one(which makes it even worse), but his art style at the moment is really begining to tire, it's definitely not the selling point of the comic, and would probably turn off any casual fans who happened to pick it up.
In fact I think it would suit a more quirky and crazy cartoon like Ren and Stimpy.
Visually Tales is superb and in my opinion the more enjoyable of the two comics.
yea I think thats what everyones been trying to say more or less we dont hate him we just have seen his better work and know he can do a better job.
The only reasons I buy the comics at this point are to have all the storys written by peter laird.

[Andrew NDB]

Lawson has done some amazing work, but really only ever shines when he's accompanied by a skilled inker.

Look at TMNT Vol. 1, #21. Jim Lawson on pencils, Eastman on inks. The art is godly in that issue, my favorite of any I've seen yet in the Mirage comics.

[Bircher]

With in reason, I don't really care who's drawing as long as we get the regular TMNT title back!!! ;)

[Sparvid]

Nitpick time: One thing i find annoying with Lawson is that he has a tendency of drawing small X's on various places. To me, they look just like the X's on a penciled page, which indicate areas that the inker is supposed to ink completely black. But Lawson's X's appear even on pages that he inks himself, so it's not a mistake either.

[The Shelf]

I actually like all the cross-hatching in Lawson's art. Actually, I think I'm one of the few people who really likes pretty much all of Lawson's art. My only complaint early on was that he sometimes drew the humans' eyes pointing in slightly different directions. That was pretty rare, though, so it doesn't bother me anymore.

I do wish they would have stuck with the duotones instead of the Photoshop techniques that they're using now. That doesn't really have anything to do with Lawson's art, though.

[cowabunga14]

I liked his Volume 1 artwork -- mainly when he worked on RTNY and the first movie adaptation. IMHO, that was probably some of his best stuff.

Nowadays, his artwork is better than nothing for Volume 4. Some people think that it sucks, but I think that it's all right, even though it could be better.

I just don't understand how the heck his art how changed over the years. I mean, shouldn't it have improved or stayed the same? It really doesn't make sense and I think it's contradictory how it looked good in the earlier Volumes and now it doesn't. Did his style or whatever change as a result of aging or what? Was it because while he didn't work on the Turtles for awhile, he came back for Volume 4 without practicing art between Voulmes 3 and 4?

[Spitfire]

Lawson's art does not hold up well against the other TMNT artists. His tales issues and volume 4 really have nothing on Mirage, Image, or the other tales artists.

In all honesty he's my least favorite artist at the moment. I miss Dan, he was my favorite.

[Roseangelo]

Lawson has done some amazing work, but really only ever shines when he's accompanied by a skilled inker.

While I agree that the style of the inker has huge influence on how Lawson's finished work ends up looking (moreso than probably any other artist whose work I'm familiar with), it is not inks alone that explain the slide in his work.

Tales of the TMNT Vol. 1:
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/tales/07/0703.jpg

City at War:
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/55/5502.jpg

Volume 4:
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume04/22/04.jpg

I remember when I first started reading City at War, it took awhile to get used to his style of drawing and even then I really wasn't fond of it. Now when I look at it I find myself in total awe and wanting for those old days to return. Looking back even further to RTNY and Tales Vol. 1... well, it's easily among the best TMNT art that's even been published.

[Time Mistress]

I love Lawson Vol 1 & 2 work. His recent stuff not so much but at the same time there's is a familiarity to it that I like. I don't like his Vol 4 humans but his Vol 4 Turtles and Utroms aren't that bad. I think the inking has a lot to do with it as some people have said. But I think Jim's real talent isn't so much the drawing as it is page layouts. He seems to have a gift for story structure and it's evident even his more recent works like Blind Sight or Professor Oblogato. So the layouts are what I like most about Jim's work.

[Fledermaus]

Lawson remains a great storyteller. I love his composition and his pacing... truly great. Unfortunately, it's not enough to make me buy the new TMNT comics.

Lawson, if I recall correctly is drawing more the way way he wants to draw now -- so yeah it's more stylized.

What's different, since Vol 1 and 2?

1. Tones have been simplified

2. Inking has become cleaner.

Too often, Lawson's artwork nowadays comes out as jarringly, blindingly stark. Conceptually, it's still brilliant, but too many times, the finished look is a little hard on the eyes.

Unfortunately, when I'm in comic shop, I'm not allowed to read the whole comic to find out whether it has a good story or not. The art is the first thing that draws me in. (Of course, there are several nice exceptions to this -- there's the Blind Sight series, and also tales #34, which I am trying to buy right now -- both of which feature artwork that draw me into the world, rather than...)

Waitaminnit... how OLD is this thread? :o

[VaughnMichael]

uh yeah look what roseangelo posted if you cant see that his art has changed allot you've got to seriously need some glasses or be blind or something.
I do think he said at some point he used to try and draw like other mirage artists during those other past comics and his new stuff is fully him his style he says.
The only thing I honestly dont really care for is his humans the all have really fat fish lips.
Waitaminnit... how OLD is this thread? :o
It's a bit older from the start but people are talking in it recently so don't worry.

[Roseangelo]

The only thing I honestly dont really care for is his humans the all have really fat fish lips.

I hate the lips he gives Splinter, too... :dead:

[VaughnMichael]

I hate the lips he gives Splinter, too... :dead:
Yeah well I can't say I've really been a fan of splinters looks in anything besides the new movie for some years now I enjoyed the character of Splinter in 2k3 but I disliked that he was gray.:ohwell:
I don't even know where they decided that one at he's always been brown.

[Ratchet]

He's only been brown since the cartoons started airing. In a black and white comic he's black and white. He might be brown to you, but to others it's a different story.

[VaughnMichael]

He's only been brown since the cartoons started airing. In a black and white comic he's black and white. He might be brown to you, but to others it's a different story.
um do none of your mirage comic books not have covers to them?
Yeah I would think so so do mine and considerding I have every comic and he's brown on every cover and in the colored versions of the mirage comics I'd say Splinters was always ment to be brown.
So please try to come up with another excuse to prove me wrong.
It's a damn daily occurrence on this site. Call me a know it all if you like but atleast what I know is correct.
I also believe Splinter is Gray in 2k3 because his outfit is brown and they wanted to have his outfit that color and it would have looked odd him being brown on brown.
Oh and I mean you must not have ever seen any of the official comic books to not know this and in case you don't believe me have a look for yourself.
Issue #3 Vol 1 Mirage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/izzyvaughn/03cover3.jpg
Issue #9 Vol 1 Mirage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/izzyvaughn/09cover.jpg
Issue #23 Vol 1 Mirage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/izzyvaughn/23cover.jpg
Issue #55 Vol 1 Mirage "City at war"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/izzyvaughn/55cover.jpg
And last but not least The death of Splinte Issue #11 Mirage Vol 4
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/izzyvaughn/11cover.jpg

[Spitfire]

He's only been brown since the cartoons started airing. In a black and white comic he's black and white. He might be brown to you, but to others it's a different story.

I know put already served you but I got to take a moment and reflect on how incredibly ignorant this comment was.

[Ratchet]

I said he'd been brown since the cartoons came around, which is true. #9 came out at the end of 86, the reprint of #3 in 88, the toon started in 87, which would have gone through probably the same amount of prep work as what went into 2k3 (look at the Warner Bros. tests through to the final 4kids production art), so realistically, you'd be looking at original designs probably starting in late 86/early 87. Until then you've got 8 issues of black and white Splinter. Don't call me ignorant dude, at least not until you've looked at it from other points of view.

[VaughnMichael]

I said he'd been brown since the cartoons came around, which is true. #9 came out at the end of 86, the reprint of #3 in 88, the toon started in 87, which would have gone through probably the same amount of prep work as what went into 2k3 (look at the Warner Bros. tests through to the final 4kids production art), so realistically, you'd be looking at original designs probably starting in late 86/early 87. Until then you've got 8 issues of black and white Splinter. Don't call me ignorant dude, at least not until you've looked at it from other points of view.
Ok I think I'll just write Peter Laird or maybe say Dan over at the offical site.
And I would say you're being pretty ignorant to the fact that Splinter has always been a dark colored character and was ment to be a Brownish Shade since the start of tmnts first run in the early 80's everything mirage has brought out he was brown and we never saw them in color untill that point so untill that point he was a black and white character no middle ground he wasn't seen in color untill the issues I listed.
And btw I don't think there is much of a point of view to look at he was never in color untill we saw him in color in the first cover he was on.
So how can you really say he's not brown he's gray now and my question was why?
Not how can you argue with me about why a character who has been Brown for god knows how many years is now gray.
Geez way to pick a fight over something stupid as color.:roll:

[Ratchet]

Dude, I think you've got the tone of my initial post completely wrong. I simply meant that just because he's always been brown to you, doesn't mean that other colours weren't considered. Peter might have seen him as being grey or black until they made him brown for either the toon or the cover of issue 9 (depending on which came first). I'm not trying to pick a fight over anything, I simply stated something. The way you said "I don't know where they decided that one he's always been brown" just sounded so definite, and everyone here's probably seen the colour tests over at the official site.
And to say there's no other point of view truly is an ignorant statement. Until you have colour, your mind can decide what colour Splinter, or what colour April's van is, or what colour anything is, because up until a certain point, no-one has any point of reference EXCEPT Pete, Kevin and whoever else is working on the book at that time. It's all up to that individual as to how they read that character! It's the same as the voices. Until you hear them, you have no reference.
Again, I'll reiterate that I had no intention of starting any kind of fight, it's just that you were so damn fixed in having your opinion dominate someone elses that you insisted on posting covers and telling me I'm wrong!

[Spitfire]

If I could psychically slap you over the internet I would.

Your trying to tell me he "could" have been grey. I mean that just makes no sense. "He's what ever color you want him to be" If that's the case then why didn't they start making the turtles different colors in the comics after the cartoon came out?

The cartoon and comics had nothing to do with one another. Nothing at all, he was brown to begin with, in the movie, in the cartoon, in everything but the new toon.

[VaughnMichael]

Dude, I think you've got the tone of my initial post completely wrong. I simply meant that just because he's always been brown to you, doesn't mean that other colours weren't considered. Peter might have seen him as being grey or black until they made him brown for either the toon or the cover of issue 9 (depending on which came first). I'm not trying to pick a fight over anything, I simply stated something. The way you said "I don't know where they decided that one he's always been brown" just sounded so definite, and everyone here's probably seen the colour tests over at the official site.
And to say there's no other point of view truly is an ignorant statement. Until you have colour, your mind can decide what colour Splinter, or what colour April's van is, or what colour anything is, because up until a certain point, no-one has any point of reference EXCEPT Pete, Kevin and whoever else is working on the book at that time. It's all up to that individual as to how they read that character! It's the same as the voices. Until you hear them, you have no reference.
Again, I'll reiterate that I had no intention of starting any kind of fight, it's just that you were so damn fixed in having your opinion dominate someone elses that you insisted on posting covers and telling me I'm wrong!
And you know what You're right about one thing I'm planning to write to Peter, Kevin and whomever else.
But I'm tellin ya The Comics came first Splinter was planed to be brown in them.
The kids wb color sheets are recent from the past couple years as is splinter change of color to gray.
I'm not saying I hate it I'm just saying it obviously wasnt the first choice for him.
I mean it's something that's been set in stone why argue about it it's like saying there where really 20 commandments but 10 of them has been lost
EDIT: btw if you have something to say to spitfire say it to him don't get made at me about him gettin pissy with you...I'm just talking and trying to tell you things cause your're really just pulling this stuff out of thin air and reguardless of what you say it seems like your just trying to pull this splinter is whatever color out of thin air.
I mean really you know what wow I guess Splinters always been aqua blue then also cause you know thats my fave color and I'd like to see him that way and thats the color I've always seen him being...I mean hell thats pretty much what your saying.
I'm not hating on Gray Splinter hell he could be purple I don't care the fact of the matter is he's been brown for so long why argue about him suddenly changing in 2003?

[Roseangelo]

Come on guys, is it really that big of a deal?

[VaughnMichael]

Come on guys, is it really that big of a deal?
No it's not but I can't believe the load I'm being fed here...shesh.
I prefer the mirage versions over everything else I mean hell when the old toon came out they stuck with his colors because that was the color guide kevin and peter had come up with for splinter.
I'm not rulling out that they perhaps didnt think of other colors but what the fact of the matter that this person is missing is that Splinter has always been brown up untill 2003.

[Ratchet]

How does that not make sense? Until the turtles themselves were shown in colour they could have been grey or brown or some other shade of green.

As for the Turtle's colours?
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/22/22cover.jpg

What kind of a statement is "The cartoons and the comics had nothing to do with each other?" There wouldn't even be a cartoon without a comic!

[Ratchet]

I'm not rulling out that they perhaps didnt think of other colors but what the fact of the matter that this person is missing is that Splinter has always been brown up untill 2003.

I'm not missing anything! I know that physically - everything we've seen IN COLOUR has been brown - yes. But what you have just said in the above statement is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say!

[VaughnMichael]

I'm not missing anything! I know that physically - everything we've seen IN COLOUR has been brown - yes. But what you have just said in the above statement is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say!
Then you've been missunderstanding me this entire time and you've been wording things completly odd then cause we've been going back and for this entire time and as i've stated before it's pointless.
Believe what you will and I will for myself as well I know splinter brown he still even is in mirage.
I was asking why he is gray in 2k3 and ff not why you like him being a differnt color.

[Ratchet]

LOL! I was trying to answer you! That's why I referenced the Warner Bros colour tests! You asked "Where did they decide that one?" I also never said which colour I prefer, I simply said, in response to everyone saying "He's always been brown!" that he MIGHT not have been, hence why we now have a grey Splinter. Wasn't he grey in TNM?

[VaughnMichael]

LOL! I was trying to answer you! That's why I referenced the Warner Bros colour tests! You asked "Where did they decide that one?" I also never said which colour I prefer, I simply said, in response to everyone saying "He's always been brown!" that he MIGHT not have been, hence why we now have a grey Splinter. Wasn't he grey in TNM?
yes he was but they show doesnt exist so shhhhh lol:lol:
But yeah thats my favorite splinter toy the next mutation one and I'm not gonna lie I painted him brown recently cause I much prefer him brown and the paint job actully looks better brown.

[Ratchet]

Really? I'd be interested in seeing how it looks - I was never a fan of the TNM figs except for the boys themselves. Anyway, back on topic. Jim's pencilling is great. It's an acquired taste, but it's still good, and it's consistent. But I agree that it comes largely down to the inking, which is true of any artist working on a comic.

[VaughnMichael]

oh btw not to be a jerk or anything but whilst looking around peter laird blast from the past site I found this.
Take a Gander.
Early Splinter
Hey -- where's his tail?! This is a very early painted piece by Kevin Eastman, depicting the Turtles' sensei, Master Splinter, possibly a design study done before the printing of the first issue. In any event, I'm glad we decided to make Splinter's robe a little less ragged in the comics!

-- Peter Laird
http://www.planetracers.com/blast/earlysplintersm.jpg
http://www.planetracers.com/blast/prblast0071.html

[Ratchet]

That's all I needed to see ;)