Should Shredder be in the new movie? [Archive]

TMNT Power

12-25-2006, 01:28 AM

Hey Mr. Munroe,

First of all, I'd like to wish you Happy Holidays. I hope you and yours had a wonderful break.

Second of all ... I'd like to say I was really dissapointed with the "theatrical trailer" that was recently released. The first teaser was brillaint. It was dark, and serious. Yet it also had the perfect composition of a threatning situation, with the typical TMNT comedic moments. And then the theatrical version just killed the aura and mood that the teaser created. It seemed too focused on jokes. Not to mention it came off as really cliched. I mean the second you hear: "Every 3000 years, the stars allign unleashing an army of monsters." The movie just looses any sense of real world danger, and just goes into corny territory. Even for a movie primarily based at reaching a child audience.

I guess to really get down to it, I am not really digging your approach to this film. It comes off as a psuedo-sequel. Which is going to create confusion, which is just what happened with Superman Returns who based their story, like yours, as a movie that picks up after a certain movie yet also isn't a direct sequel and may ignore the other movies from a series. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, if you're trying to break a new audience for the Turtles, why wouldn't you go for an updated and contemporary origin that fits into the new CGI format for your story telling? You could've meshed the TMNT 2k3 origin, and created something new, yet still using the old classic elements that made the first movies so successful. I mean, I always thought the TMNT worked best when they faced real life situations and dangers. Or at least feasible dangers, that still had elements of the fantastical. But a bunch of monsters? Meh. No Shredder? The kingpin, and the only worth advesary of the turtles not even making an appearance? BOO to you. That's another thing. By not re-starting, you are continuing off the TMNT 2 plot, where Shredder died. Which means, we will never see him again?!? You wrote off the main villain, because you didn't have the vision to do a re-start? That just stinks man. You could've had the whole Ancient Foot v.s. Utroms / Guardians (there is your monsters for the flick) combined with the origin and rise of the Ninja Turtles. It would've been beautiful. It could've possibly competed with TMNT 1990. It also would've gave you infinite room for creativity for quality sequels. I think the route you took it in, leaves you kind of constricted.

Sorry for the rant, but I just had to get it off my chest. Don't take any of this as me looking down on you as a person or an artist. I hope your movie is successful, and your career takes off. I'm just voicing my displeasure with the project. I believe you have gotten plenty of praise here, I just wanted to let you know some criticism. I would be delighted if you could in some way or form respond to any of my questions or displeasures.

Beyond the story, from a looks perspective ... your movie is absolutely jaw dropping. Which is why I was so dissapointed with the story. Your movie looks like a flat out CGI replica of the TMNT 1990 world. The shadows, and that real gritty / urban feeling. Fits the mythos perfectly. The way you had the turtles moving. Oh man, was it fantastic. BTW, what is this I hear about you guys re-interpreting scenes from TMNT 1990 into the new CGI format? Is that true? If so, will the fans ever get a chance to see it? I am willing to bet I'd cream my pants, as would the rest of the TMNT fan base.

Anyway, thanks for your time and I hope to hear from you soon.

aabxx

12-25-2006, 06:31 AM

"I always thought the TMNT worked best when they faced real life situations and dangers."

I don't know about that. It's like when I try to explain to my sister why I love turtles... the thing is that unlike what many outsiders believe, the turtles being mutant ninjas and having a rat master is not actually the crazy part with the franchise. The crazy, weird part is that the turtles series have a tendency to blow up into huge bits of whacked out spectacular fantasy and sci-fi adventures. Monsters and myths play a big part in that weirdness, and often, the series have followed the "monster of the week" formula. So if the movie replicates a lot of that stuff, it's in line with what has defined TMNT over the years.

If you don't appreciate all the spectacular stuff, maybe it's not the franchise for you.

In between those moments there is some room for the real world as well of course, which the movie might include as well, seeing as the descriptions mentions the villain is a tech-industrialist who's fired. Anyway, there is only so much you can fit into one movie.

Having said all this I can understand why you might not like the plot of this movie but I just wanted to bring you the view from the other side... anyway, why don't you reserve your judgment until you watch the movie? Maybe it will satisfy you even if it's not like the first movie.

mikey2007

12-25-2006, 07:05 AM

But a bunch of monsters? Meh. No Shredder? The kingpin, and the only worth advesary of the turtles not even making an appearance? BOO to you. That's another thing. By not re-starting, you are continuing off the TMNT 2 plot, where Shredder died. Which means, we will never see him again?!? You wrote off the main villain, because you didn't have the vision to do a re-start?

as much as i love shredder i agreed with Kevin 100% that we didn't need another movie with shredder, and i think it was Peter (if i'm not mistaken) that pushed for the movie that didn't have shredder as the main character

and personally i don't think that shredder was the only worthy adversary, there's always room for something new to add to the turtle universe too :D

thanks Mr. Munroe for everything you've done on the new movie, i wish i had a good question for ya, but i can't think of anything right now, but Happy Holidays and keep up the good work

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

12-25-2006, 10:16 AM

Second of all ... I'd like to say I was really dissapointed with the "theatrical trailer" that was recently released. The first teaser was brillaint. It was dark, and serious. Yet it also had the perfect composition of a threatning situation, with the typical TMNT comedic moments. And then the theatrical version just killed the aura and mood that the teaser created. It seemed too focused on jokes. Not to mention it came off as really cliched. I mean the second you hear: "Every 3000 years, the stars allign unleashing an army of monsters." The movie just looses any sense of real world danger, and just goes into corny territory. Even for a movie primarily based at reaching a child audience.

I guess to really get down to it, I am not really digging your approach to this film. It comes off as a psuedo-sequel. Which is going to create confusion, which is just what happened with Superman Returns who based their story, like yours, as a movie that picks up after a certain movie yet also isn't a direct sequel and may ignore the other movies from a series. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, if you're trying to break a new audience for the Turtles, why wouldn't you go for an updated and contemporary origin that fits into the new CGI format for your story telling? You could've meshed the TMNT 2k3 origin, and created something new, yet still using the old classic elements that made the first movies so successful. I mean, I always thought the TMNT worked best when they faced real life situations and dangers. Or at least feasible dangers, that still had elements of the fantastical. But a bunch of monsters? Meh. No Shredder? The kingpin, and the only worth advesary of the turtles not even making an appearance? BOO to you. That's another thing. By not re-starting, you are continuing off the TMNT 2 plot, where Shredder died. Which means, we will never see him again?!? You wrote off the main villain, because you didn't have the vision to do a re-start? That just stinks man. You could've had the whole Ancient Foot v.s. Utroms / Guardians (there is your monsters for the flick) combined with the origin and rise of the Ninja Turtles. It would've been beautiful. It could've possibly competed with TMNT 1990. It also would've gave you infinite room for creativity for quality sequels. I think the route you took it in, leaves you kind of constricted.

Sorry for the rant, but I just had to get it off my chest. Don't take any of this as me looking down on you as a person or an artist. I hope your movie is successful, and your career takes off. I'm just voicing my displeasure with the project. I believe you have gotten plenty of praise here, I just wanted to let you know some criticism. I would be delighted if you could in some way or form respond to any of my questions or displeasures.

I understand your concerns, but dude, if they put Shredder in this and re-did the orgin again, it be just like the first one. I think at this point everyone knows the Turtles orgin in one way or another, so why bother doing telling that story again for the 2 zillionth time. This movie is about moving foward no restarting, again.

As for your problem with the monsters, I admit the very first time I heard about it I was somewhat skeptical myself, but this has extreme pontential to work. The TMNT work best when they're put into these fantasy/sci-fi situations. It's the basic core of the Turltes, it's been that way since the comic books.

This movie is trying to do something different, but it has infinite potential for sequels. They could do one that introduces the Utroms(since nowadays people might not mistake them for Krang, thats one of the reasons they didn't have them in TMNT 2). They could introduce Savanti Romero and Renet, a CGI Triceraton Invasion would be perfect, and of course, the return of the Shredder is an obvious choice. They could do a whole series of these movies. They're range is far from limited.

Raph's Girl

12-25-2006, 10:38 AM

No Shredder? The kingpin, and the only worth advesary of the turtles not even making an appearance? BOO to you.

I'd just like to say that Im glad Shredder isn't in it. He was killed off in the 2nd film, pure and simple. Heck in the comics he was killed off in the VERY FIRST issue!! Shredder has never been a main villian except in the toons. The only real reacurring villian the turtles ever had was Baxter Stockman with Savanti Romero in close 2nd.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

12-25-2006, 10:51 AM

I'd just like to say that Im glad Shredder isn't in it. He was killed off in the 2nd film, pure and simple. Heck in the comics he was killed off in the VERY FIRST issue!! Shredder has never been a main villian except in the toons. The only real reacurring villian the turtles ever had was Baxter Stockman with Savanti Romero in close 2nd.

No, Savanti Romero had more appearences. He was in the crossover with Cerebus, he was in Mask 1 and 2, The Return of Savanti Romero, and in an upcoming Tales issue.

TMNT Power

12-25-2006, 12:00 PM

as much as i love shredder i agreed with Kevin 100% that we didn't need another movie with shredder
I didn't say this movie should all be about Shredder, or even have him as the main villain. But a scene alone should be dedicated to the only note worthy villain in the Ninja Turtle lore. No one knows of a TMNT villain besides Shredder and Krang. There is a reason Shredder has had so much longevity as a character. He works. Max Winters? Corny monsters? Cliche "World Domination" motivation for the villain? Are you kidding me?!? That's all they could come up with?

:roll:

If anything, you could have continued on with the original franchise's storyline, and still have a more serious movie with actual threatning villains. You could've had a City at War storyline since the Shredder is dead now. Hell, that would've been a real successor to TMNT 1990. This movie, for as much as you guys are defending it (because it's new, and b/c the director is now on the boards) is from a quality aspect, looks no better than TMNT III. Straight up. Yeah aesthetically it looks great. But storywise, you can already tell its trash. Intially after the teaser everyone was amped. Then when people I know saw the theatrical trailer, they were all ... :|

and i think it was Peter (if i'm not mistaken) that pushed for the movie that didn't have shredder as the main character
Does that make it right? I mean, isn't this the guy who was an advocate of TMNT FF, and Venus for TMNT the Next Mutation? Just cause he is the creator doesn't mean he makes all the correct decisions.

and personally i don't think that shredder was the only worthy adversary, there's always room for something new to add to the turtle universe too
Well you may not think so, but popular opinion and history would prove otherwise. He is their deepest villain. He provides the richest emotional and historical attatchment to the turtles. If there was no Shredder, the turtles wouldn't be "ninjas". They would be humanoid turtles, who don't do anything. No other character in the universe has sucj a strong affiliation with the turtles. Baxter Stockman would be the lamest cinematic villain they could do. He's a henchman at best.

TMNT Power

12-25-2006, 12:15 PM

I'd just like to say that Im glad Shredder isn't in it.
That's nice, but no offense, I wasn't asking you. Do you really not want Shredder? Or are you just saying that because you know we aren't getting him in some way or fashion, so you are trying to convince yourself and others that it's cool that he isn't in there? I mean, the most asked question about this movie is if the Shredder is going to be in it. Those questions spawned by the movie action figure, and his appearance in the video game based off the movie, but mainly due to the popularity of the character.

Heck in the comics he was killed off in the VERY FIRST issue!!
Yeah, but he also came back thanks to cloning. So what is your point?

Shredder has never been a main villian except in the toons.
Umm, that makes up most of the lore. You do realize that, correct? But you're wrong anyway. Shredder has been the main villain in the movies, the cartoons (both), and even for much of the comics everything revolved around his character in some way or another. Intially he wasn't meant to be the main villain, but b/c of being such a strong character and having such a following ... he developed into the main villain.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

12-25-2006, 12:19 PM

I didn't say this movie should all be about Shredder, or even have him as the main villain. But a scene alone should be dedicated to the only note worthy villain in the Ninja Turtle lore. No one knows of a TMNT villain besides Shredder and Krang. There is a reason Shredder has had so much longevity as a character. He works. Max Winters? Corny monsters? Cliche "World Domination" motivation for the villain? Are you kidding me?!? That's all they could come up with?

:roll:

If anything, you could have continued on with the original franchise's storyline, and still have a more serious movie with actual threatning villains. You could've had a City at War storyline since the Shredder is dead now. Hell, that would've been a real successor to TMNT 1990. This movie, for as much as you guys are defending it (because it's new, and b/c the director is now on the boards) is from a quality aspect, looks no better than TMNT III. Straight up. Yeah aesthetically it looks great. But storywise, you can already tell its trash. Intially after the teaser everyone was amped. Then when people I know saw the theatrical trailer, they were all ... :|

Does that make it right? I mean, isn't this the guy who was an advocate of TMNT FF, and Venus for TMNT the Next Mutation? Just cause he is the creator doesn't mean he makes all the correct decisions.

Well you may not think so, but popular opinion and history would prove otherwise. He is their deepest villain. He provides the richest emotional and historical attatchment to the turtles. If there was no Shredder, the turtles wouldn't be "ninjas". They would be humanoid turtles, who don't do anything. No other character in the universe has sucj a strong affiliation with the turtles. Baxter Stockman would be the lamest cinematic villain they could do. He's a henchman at best.

Let me address this from bottom to top.

First dude, does your knowledge of TMNT end with the old toon. In the comic books Shredder had little to do with the evolution of the Turtles. Hell, he was barely in the comic. He was killed of twice, he hasn't been back since. And Baxter was more sadistic in the comics, he was the one who injected April with those nanobots that were destroying her insides, then gloated about letting her die to Don. even in the new toon he was a deeper, troubled character. Baxter could carry a movie on his own. He's a psychopathic genius, like Dr. Octopus without the tentacles.

Dude, Peter Laird disowned Venus de Milo as of 2000, and he personally financed the Lost Season, an alternative to FF. Cut him some slack. Besides, it's his property, he has the right to do whatever he wants with it. It's not up to us, as much as the fans want to think it is.

Just think of this movie as City at War, with monsters.

And I'm sure there will be a flashback scene. And even though Shredder is the only popular TMNT villian, doesn't mean he should be the only one. All they have to do is put more of the movies, and they'll be just as popular. And the turltes have plenty that could carry on movies on their own. Baxter, Savanti Romero, the Federation, the Triceratons, Agent Bishop...

johnnyblaze

12-25-2006, 12:39 PM

That's nice, but no offense, I wasn't asking you. Do you really not want Shredder? Or are you just saying that because you know we aren't getting him in some way or fashion, so you are trying to convince yourself and others that it's cool that he isn't in there? I mean, the most asked question about this movie is if the Shredder is going to be in it. Those questions spawned by the movie action figure, and his appearance in the video game based off the movie, but mainly due to the popularity of the character.

Yeah, but he also came back thanks to cloning. So what is your point?

Umm, that makes up most of the lore. You do realize that, correct? But you're wrong anyway. Shredder has been the main villain in the movies, the cartoons (both), and even for much of the comics everything revolved around his character in some way or another. Intially he wasn't meant to be the main villain, but b/c of being such a strong character and having such a following ... he developed into the main villain.
if shredder has been such a presence in all the turtles lore than why would we want to use him again?Because its expected or assumed just because there is a turtles movie Shredder has to be there? Plus the Sredder's influence is still going to be a factor in the film. His foot clan is still running around and they still have beef with the turtles.

I understand your worry but I think our ignoring the evidence that we saw that this is'nt just TMNT vs monsters. We have the A plot--which is the turtles family dynamic falling apart (which is that realism you were talking about before) we have the foot clan either working for or against Winters (the trailer even shows foot soldiers fighting not only tyhe turtles but the monsters) and we don't know exactly what the deal with the monsters are, and their relationship with Winters.

Roseangelo

12-25-2006, 01:11 PM

Thing is, TMNT is NOT a good vs. evil story like Star Wars or Harry Potter. It's not even a hero vs. villian story like Spider-Man. Using Shredder (again) would only throw the movie into at least the second category. Shredder may be percieved as the main TMNT villian, but is that really reason enough to use him in yet another movie?

Also, Shredder died in two movies already; why would you even want to see the same thing again? The Utrom and Triceraton space stories are not my favorites, so I hope that never crosses over into any potential future movies. Gimme New York City.

The core of the TMNT story (and I mean in general here, not just in terms of the movie) is simply survival, and when crap happens that they find themselves in a position to deal with, they do what they can to take care of it.

Retelling the origin (AGAIN) would just be a waste of precious running time.

What I appreciate about this movie is that it has put the family element into the center of the overall story. My hope with this is that the non-hardcore fans who go see this movie will come out of it with a better understanding of the characters and that there's more to them than simply fighting crime (as I believe fighting crime is often percieved as the sole thing they do).

I'll admit that I was a bit thrown by the monster element of this story, but I'm not willing to write it off simply because there are monsters instead of Shredder. What I like about using the monsters is that no background knowledge of TMNT lore is needed to fully appreciate that part of the story, so the common person who sees it is less likely to be lost. And at the same time they are giving us elements from the comics with Karai being the leader of the Foot.

I have actually been quite critical of several TMNT (the franchise, not the movie) developments in the last few years, which is something that has been quite a personal struggle for me. It's not fun when you find faults in your heroes. This movie project did give me initial worry because the last thing I wanted was for something else to go wrong. But I cannot stress enough just how NOT worried I am at this point. The crew behind the movie KNOW what they're doing and I think it's only fair to save extreme critisim for after we've actually seen the movie. If then you're still upset that there's no Shredder, then so be it.

Raph'N'Roll

12-25-2006, 01:12 PM

I have to agree with TMNTpower on some points, the plot is very clichéd, and the line "every 3000 years the stars align...." was corny and felt like a step back from the teaser.

However I don't think there is a real need for shredder to be in this movie, Karai is an ideal replacement.

Kevin Munroe mentioned though that he seems to prefare the old toon, which has me worried, and to be honest the New trailer kinda proves this humor wise.
Plus the fact that it's a continuation from the second movie, I mean what the hell?!!
The second movie completely overlooks the Utroms being the creators of the mutagen, so in this movie they won't be part of the Turtles origin, and the whole Shredder back from the dead thing was a joke, oh wait a minute, he didn't actually die, he can survive an air compression crusher, but a couple of beems of wood when he's super shredder kill him outright.
I thought that movie was crap when I was a kid and I still think so, I haven't got a clue why they decided to make it apart of this movies past.
It hasn't got a patch on TMNT 1!

TMNT 2 is just like those cynical christmas movies like The Santa Claus 3 and Deck The Halls, mass marketed tripe with a shite script.
I know that I'll probably upset some people with that comment, but then again you can still like a film but know that it's crap, for example I like commando with Arnie, but I know that the script is terrible corny and the acting pretty much the same.
I just don't understand people who think TMNT 2 is genuinely a good movie.

Warhorse

12-25-2006, 01:45 PM

One of my hypothesis on why TMNT 2 is being part of the new movie being made, is probably they wanted to get passed the Turtles finding a new lair, and a cool one at that.

They also might make references to people who did enjoy the movie. Just because some people disliked the movie, that most certainly doesn't mean that everyone disliked it. I thought TMNT 2 was great.

So far Mr Munroe, I love what you have shown us so far, and it leaves me thirsting for more. Don't change a a milisecond of your vision!

Also, if there is to be a sequel, will you keep the same cgi company to do the TMNT sequel? Personally, I think you should, because they are taking a chance and placing all this time into the project, I think they deserve to stay on board!

Jo Dawn

12-25-2006, 01:49 PM

Without quoting all the others, I just have to say...

I am glad Shredder is not the main baddie here. (And no, honey, it's not because he's not in it and I'm trying to make it 'ok' for myself.) Truth is, in the main 'canon' that is TMNT (I don't care about the toons or what, the ORIGINAL) being the COMIC... He's long dead. I'm not bashing Shredder, but he is not the be-all, end-all bad guy of the TMNT. Let's expand our horizons here, stop being so one minded and let's do something NEW.

I am all for it. Good on you, Kevin. I have faith.

Raph'N'Roll

12-25-2006, 02:05 PM

Warhorse:One of my hypothesis on why TMNT 2 is being part of the new movie being made, is probably they wanted to get passed the Turtles finding a new lair, and a cool one at that.

Yeah but that means the Utroms are out of the picture TCRI wise, and instead we get Dr. Alfred Necessiter from The Man With Two Brains!

AquaParade

12-25-2006, 02:15 PM

I Am a big fan of the Shredder as well, but am fine with him not being in this movie. Although I am hoping for him in some form in a seqeul. I think one reason so many fans are connected to the Shredder is because he represents more of the down to earth, urban side of the tmnt. He is one of their only enemies who isnt particularly sci-fi.

Warhorse

12-25-2006, 02:17 PM

Why must TMNT movies be just like the comics or just like the toons. Why can't it have it's own story, so TMNT fans don't know what to expect when they plop down their 10 bucks to see a movie.

I don't know about you, but I like to see different angles on a popular subject. In the end, a movie is some sort of artisitc impression, and this is Munroe's and his crew's impression of TMNT.

Also, they said they will follow loosely on the sequels. There is still room for the Utrons to have ties with the ooze or what ever. I never followed the comics. I was into the Turtles because of the great characters and the way the brothers react and interreact with each other, not to bicker about who and what they are going to fight. What they fought was a bonus to a great series!

Raph's Girl

12-25-2006, 03:35 PM

The second movie completely overlooks the Utroms being the creators of the mutagen

I believe the reasoning behind no Utroms was that it would have confused the kids and they would have thought it was Krang. And perhaps the Dr. Who fans would have thought "Daleks?" :lol: There's a rumour that Prof. Perry was gonna be an Utrom.

I know I would have been confused because at that time I didn't know about the original comics. It's only in the last couple years since the new series came out that I found out about the comics and the Utroms and such.

Spawn Guy

12-25-2006, 03:38 PM

Wonder what TMNT Power will make of Ultimate TMNT.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

12-25-2006, 05:15 PM

I believe the reasoning behind no Utroms was that it would have confused the kids and they would have thought it was Krang. And perhaps the Dr. Who fans would have thought "Daleks?" :lol: There's a rumour that Prof. Perry was gonna be an Utrom.

I know I would have been confused because at that time I didn't know about the original comics. It's only in the last couple years since the new series came out that I found out about the comics and the Utroms and such.

Yeah Prof. Perry was intended to be an Utrom, but yeah, the fear of him being mistaken for Krang(and I think budget reasons), they nixed it. But I think Kevin said this movie would adapt only some elements from the second film. So there is still room for the Oots.

That's nice, but no offense, I wasn't asking you. Do you really not want Shredder? Or are you just saying that because you know we aren't getting him in some way or fashion, so you are trying to convince yourself and others that it's cool that he isn't in there? I mean, the most asked question about this movie is if the Shredder is going to be in it. Those questions spawned by the movie action figure, and his appearance in the video game based off the movie, but mainly due to the popularity of the character.

Shredder not being in this movie is one of the main points. He's gone, the Turtles(since none of they're other villans have been brought in yet) have completed they're initial mission, and Splinter sees that they're starting to drift apart. Of course people are gonna ask where's Shredder, on every forum I've gone to that question is always asked, but as much as I like him, **** him I say. He's had his moment(too many of them), time to give some other villians a chance.

d_osborn

12-25-2006, 06:09 PM

Aren't there a bajillion other threads for movie discussion? How about we... oh, I don't know... use those threads for discussion and save this thread for questions directed at Kevin Munroe...:D

Jo Dawn

12-25-2006, 09:32 PM

There's a rumour that Prof. Perry was gonna be an Utrom.

He was. There was a deleted scene (written in the script) where he reveals himself as such... but Pete did NOT want people saying 'Hey, Krang!'. So it got nixed.

He is one of their only enemies who isnt particularly sci-fi.

Honestly, I never saw him as their greatest enemy. I personally saw humanity itself as their biggest foe. And that's no sci-fi.

And I agree. Let's take the movie discussions out of here and try to focus on poor Kevin's questions. He's taking the time to read all this just to get to his questions! :)

Foot Soldier

12-25-2006, 09:48 PM

nice pic. there:o

Krang

12-26-2006, 12:44 AM

Aren't there a bajillion other threads for movie discussion? How about we... oh, I don't know... use those threads for discussion and save this thread for questions directed at Kevin Munroe...:D
And I agree. Let's take the movie discussions out of here and try to focus on poor Kevin's questions. He's taking the time to read all this just to get to his questions! :)
Exactly. This thread was getting off-topic, so I split it into a new one. TMNT Power, you're welcome to re-post the questions from your post in Kevin Munroe's thread, but please leave the rants and nitpicking out. It would be a waste of his time if he had to read through everyone's personal visions of an "ideal" TMNT movie rather than questions and comments about what he's actually working on.

jeff the cheff

12-26-2006, 01:54 AM

I think it would be awesome to see a shredder in cgi, and he's a great villian; but he isn't needed for the movie to be good.

Oh and TMNT Power, I think there are more issues of the comic than there are episodes of the old toon*, so the old cartoon does not make up most of the TMNT lore. You do realize that, correct?

*I looked through but didn't count and add the issues of the Mirage comics, but there are about 194 cartoon episodes, and the comic is probably near that many issues, and if it isn't, it will be because they're still writing

Vincent

12-26-2006, 05:46 AM

The Shredder is deader than a bowl of shredded cheddar embedded in bedrock.

TerranigmaFreak

12-26-2006, 09:50 AM

Am I the only one here who thinks that TMNTfan and TMNT Power are one and the same?

Aignatius

12-26-2006, 09:53 AM

Warhorse

12-26-2006, 10:30 AM

Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious:
The Mirage story arcs are the original TMNT, geared toward the older crowd, the first toon series was geared toward the kids of course, an offshoot designed to gain a wider audience. Most fans nowadays identify with the toon because most were kids at the time the toon was first aired, so naturally many will think in terms of the toon first, and the Mirage comics as an offshoot.
Though the Archie series started out as an offshoot of the original toon, they soon left that behind and went into an incredibly well done story arc of its own...

Well, I was first introduced to the Turtles via the 1987 toon. But when the 1990 movie came out, the toons seemed kind of silly for me. Now that there is the new 2k3 toon out, I prefer that version of the Turtles over the "kiddie" version.

I've never read the comics, but I am an old fan who likes and prefers the newer atmosphere that is being given to us.

Katie

12-26-2006, 10:36 AM

Am I the only one here who thinks that TMNTfan and TMNT Power are one and the same?

Maybe....but I think the new movie is just bringing folks who think they know TMNT out of the woodwork. Those two are just examples of people believing that the old toon was the "first and original" TMNT.

It's ok if that is what you know on TMNT, but also realize it started out as something else and there are plenty of other people who grew up on other TMNT universes. Just 'cause it is not your childhood memory of TMNT does not mean it will be awful. We need to be more open minded.

I too am glad Shredder is dead in this movie. Not to make myself feel better, but because that is how it should be IMO.

gobo

12-26-2006, 11:00 AM

Oh and TMNT Power, I think there are more issues of the comic than there are episodes of the old toon*, so the old cartoon does not make up most of the TMNT lore. You do realize that, correct?
To be fair, Jeff, I think they were talking about the fact that the tv series are more accessible and, therefore, more widely observed. Since people didn't usually have to go very far out of their way to see the shows, they are more popular. However, I am of the opinion that I don't care for the movie to be an adaptation of the series. The only thing they incorporated in the live-action movies that was exclusively from a 'toon was April's reporter job.
The Shredder is deader than a bowl of shredded cheddar embedded in bedrock.
Yabba-Dabba-Do, Shred-Head! Remember that ep? :P
Am I the only one here who thinks that TMNTfan and TMNT Power are one and the same?
The thought occurred to me. They have similar origins, but TMNT Power is more detailed in their opinions. That suggests an informed opinion. Hence, they aren't trollin' here. Being negative, yes. Being unreasonable, no. Does the internet have a 'freedom of speech' ammendment yet? If so, they have every right to be heard as long as they do so peacefully.

Vincent

12-26-2006, 02:13 PM

Yabba-Dabba-Do, Shred-Head! Remember that ep? :P

No, I don't think I do. And I wasn't referring to that Bedrock, I was referring to actual bedrock. You know, the native consolidated rock underlying the Earth's surface..? :P

Raph'N'Roll

12-26-2006, 04:08 PM

Jo Dawn: He was. There was a deleted scene (written in the script) where he reveals himself as such... but Pete did NOT want people saying 'Hey, Krang!'. So it got nixed.

That's interesting, I never knew that!
I suppose it makes more sense to have left that scene out, kids including myself at the time would've gotten confused big time!

Coola Yagami

12-26-2006, 07:42 PM

IMO Shredder should at least appear in a flashback since the whole TMNT drifting apart and Karai being after tham has to do with the Shredder. Will they keep the second movie canon though, cause a flashback with Splinter using a nunchuck to fling Shredder over the roof would look much more bad-ass than Super Shredder basically collapsing a roof over himself.

Warhorse

12-26-2006, 08:28 PM

Why do we need flashbacks? The first two movies are out now for people to get caught up on the story, and that way the movie will have more time to contribute the here and now storyline.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

12-26-2006, 10:49 PM

I really think there should be a trilogy of these movies.

This one is the first.

The second should involve the Turtles searching for clues about they're orgins, and they stumble upon the Utroms. And it should have Karai bringing in Baxter Stockman to work on a "secret project", which at the end turns out to be the resurection of the Shredder. It could also have an appearence by Leatherhead.

The third should, obviously involve the Shredder's return. and also have a cameo by the Rat King.

johnnyblaze

12-27-2006, 10:08 AM

He was. There was a deleted scene (written in the script) where he reveals himself as such... but Pete did NOT want people saying 'Hey, Krang!'. So it got nixed.

I have the second draft (which included a different name for the professor, different scenes and dialogue and actual hand to hand combat against Super Shredder) and its not in there. I think it was'nt somethign written but something they considered actually putting in during filming but then decided against.

the most they do in the script is hint that there is something more going on with the professor through his mannerisms and the look on his face when we last see him in the script.

iris

12-27-2006, 12:43 PM

I don't want Shredder to be in the movie or future movies (assuming we are not talking 'prequels'). I'm perfectly happy with the turtles having permanently defeated him in the movies, and I'm perfectly happy with the movie universe being different than the comic or cartoon universes. If later they reveal Utrom Shredder, that's good too. But why insist on one universe winning out?

I like the idea of TMNT having more than one individual foe. Plus they haven't decimated the Foot, so there is continuity from that direction.

Honestly, I never saw him as their greatest enemy. I personally saw humanity itself as their biggest foe. And that's no sci-fi.
As I see it, Shredder et al have been their only truly personal enemies, in any universe. So, greatest in that sense, at the very least.

I love sci-fi, but to my knowledge there has very rarely been anything sci-fi about TMNT since issue 1. TMNT is deeply set in the fantasy genre. No number of evil scientists and space ships changes that because there is no pretense at actual science (and that's a good thing).

But more on topic, I think the enemy I'd really like to see is the Rat King.

RskimB

12-27-2006, 01:45 PM

Shredder is way too over used in the TMNT universe i'm glad he's not the main baddy in this movie and truthfully i'd be fine if he never made a return in this new movie franchise(unless it was as clone/worm shredders)

Warhorse

12-27-2006, 08:26 PM

Watch me get flamed for this brain storm. And if it's been discussed or already happened in a comic, forgive me.

Ok, ^above post got me thinking, when they mentioned clones. Do you think it would be a cool story line of someone started to clone the Turtles from dna they could have abstracted some how or another. Then say, you have a bunch of mini Mikes running around and the Turtles have to figure out what to do with them after they rescue them from the science lab.

Be funny, the Turtles could be given a dose of the trouble that they themselves most undoubtably put Splinter through.

IDK. It's just been something running through my head. It's kind of cool to see the Turtles as kids when they show flash backs on the new toons. Could be a neat and interesting way to introduce kid Turtles to the present day.

Ok, I'm finish.