The Two Completly Different TMNT Worlds We Live In

[beaker]

I realize, on the edge of this new TMNT era there is two realities or versions of TMNT we are dealing with.

Which is odd, as Im not sure a brand should be divided like that.

On one hand you have the really cool original dark, edgy and brooding TMNT series from Mirage and the original TMNT movie. Then you have the *other* reality, and unfortunately the only one most folks(and Hot Topic) seems to remember: The Archie Comics late 80's Fox cartoon kiddyfied era. Sadly the official sight for some bizarre reason reflects this. Even in the daily strip they are the archie version. Why?

After the crash of TMNT from super beyond mainstream to obscuirty in the early 90's, the TMNT brand went back to being underground. And I liked that. Kept the real fans with it.

Now...they are back. And thankfully they have found a balance between dark and edgy, and somewhat for kids. You have a much more sleek(and yes ANIME) design to the TMNT and other characters. April finally looks hip(and not some embarassing fashion faux paus of the 80's) Splinter looks great in grey. Baxter is finally the comic Baxter. No more Krang or nefariously pointless bad guy drivel. They are really going all out to try and appeal to fans of the original comic, fans of anime, and just general TMNT fans.

So it is really so cool to see the ugly memory of the Archie comic/silly cartoon era wiped away with a brand new logo and new look and feel.

I mean, "they have weapons and are ninjas but we rarely can show them using them"(in reference to the show and TMNT 2 and 3) Yikes.

So as far as Im concerned...TMNT history to me is:
TMNT original black and white series
TMNT arcade game
TMNT first movie(1990)

and finally, this new show.

[azure turtle]

The daily strips have that "Archie" look to them because they originally ran in newspapers during the old cartoon's run. Dan posts them because people miss them. Personally, I'd love it if Mirage sold a collected book of all the daily strips.

Since you're a fan of the original B&W turtles, I can see why you're so upset. Since I grew up with the original 'toon, the site's design or the Hot Topic shirts don't bother me at all. In fact, I love them. The split between the "kiddy" turtles and the "dark" turtles seem to be a good thing. This allows everyone to find a turtle universe that they're happy with.

[beaker]

The daily strips have that "Archie" look to them because they originally ran in newspapers during the old cartoon's run. Dan posts them because people miss them. Personally, I'd love it if Mirage sold a collected book of all the daily strips.

Since you're a fan of the original B&W turtles, I can see why you're so upset. Since I grew up with the original 'toon, the site's design or the Hot Topic shirts don't bother me at all. In fact, I love them. The split between the "kiddy" turtles and the "dark" turtles seem to be a good thing. This allows everyone to find a turtle universe that they're happy with.

True. I actually got into the TMNT because of the 1989 hype of the cartoon, toys, and video game line. But I would soon discover the original comics, and then that amazing original TMNT film. Eh, maybe youre right. It's like the Muppets have Farscape, and th eupcomign edgy Fox Show for older folks...then there is Sesame and Bear in the Big Blue House for the younger crowds. So youre right, can work on two levels. I still feel though that the real TMNT is closer to the original comics and the first movie. Im hoping the new cartoon is a good balance of both worlds though. I just seriously hate that round bubbly head Archie cartoon design of the Turtles.

[That Matt Guy]

Then you have the *other* reality, and unfortunately the only one most folks(and Hot Topic) seems to remember: The Archie Comics late 80's Fox cartoon kiddyfied era.

What is Hot Topic?

[Karpo_007]

When the TMNT hit Finland, I was 5, And I enjoyed both cartoon and archie. Well last Summer when I got into TMNT again, I bought all the Mirage TMNT comics.

Well I can't say it is a bad thing it got divided. It didn't affect the Original TMNT in any way, but it made lot's of money to Eastman and Laird.

[Kali]

What is Hot Topic?
It's a store, mostly dealing in goth-style clothing and stuff. Very expensive.

Why must everyone choose one side or another. I like the darker comics, and I also loved the sillier cartoon and yes, TNM. They are seperate universes and both have their charm for me. Neither has ant effect on the other. And I seemed to have combined elements into my own personal TMNT universe in my own mind. Canon, what's that? :lol:

[Aztec General]

What is Hot Topic?
It's a store, mostly dealing in goth-style clothing and stuff. Very expensive.

Why must everyone choose one side or another. I like the darker comics, and I also loved the sillier cartoon and yes, TNM. They are seperate universes and both have their charm for me. Neither has ant effect on the other. And I seemed to have combined elements into my own personal TMNT universe in my own mind. Canon, what's that? :lol:

You liked the Next Mutation? I thought we all agreed we'd never speak of that show again! :lol:

[HorseTechie]

*shrug* I like the comic book and the movie versions the most. I give creidt tot eh first movie for hooking and reeling me into the TMNT.

Which goes to show that the cartoon really didn't interest me. It wasn't until I realized there was a deeper, darker side to them. It's not that I don't like funny, humorous things, it's just that I had a hard time seeing why they took something originally intended for young adults, and totally kiddified them down to Barney's level. Oh well... such is the ways of marketing!

[Karpo_007]

Well the new show is going to correct that mistake...

[HorseTechie]

Yah! I'm happy about that! :D

And you know, if they didn't cater to kids so young in the first place, they probably wouldn't have been in such "TMNT is soooo violent" debates to begin with. Hrmm.. just a thought! :goofygri:

[Karpo_007]

Yeah. I hope this show doesn't start an angry parent rapmpage...

[Mondo_Gecko]

I think the Mirage Series was great, it was Eastman & Laid's "Original TMNT" and i hope the show does great and i will watch it because i love TMNT BUT The Original Cartoon will always be better and not just for me but hundreds of other kids that watched the show during its time. I love Everything about the Cartoon, I love The TMNT, Splinter, Shredder, April, Krang, Rocksteady & Bebop, The Frogs, Leatherhead, Mondo Gecko etc. I remeber some of my friends heard about the new they thought it be so cool to see Bebop & Rocksteady again as when when i first heartd about the new show only to have the dissapointing news. I had to say "Guys there is no Rocksteady & Bebop, No Technodrome, Splinter's a buisnessman and April's not a reporter, she's Baxter Assistant. And he's not a fly anymore he's just anoather crazy inventor." The first things thery said dude thats going to suck i'm not going watch that.

I think the thing that Laird and the rest of the Mirage groupies hyped about the new twist for the turtles forget is without the old cartoon there would be no new cartoon. No darker turtles. The whole reason the turtles are back is because the show was mega popular back then. You owe everything to the old cartoon and don't forget the awesome toys that came with it.

[Karpo_007]

Yo are totally wrong. The darker TMNT exsisted long before the old cartoon aired. If it hasn't ever been made, a new cartoon could still be in the works. The old cartoon ruined the Image of TMNT, this cartoon is going to correct it.

You can have your own opinnions about wich is better, but can you honestly say you have read enough Mirage to make that opinnion? Fact is: The old cartoon is for little kids, The Mirage is for young adults.

It seems that the new cartoon will be something for both. Like the first movie.

[DarthRaphael]

I think the thing that Laird and the rest of the Mirage groupies hyped about the new twist for the turtles forget is without the old cartoon there would be no new cartoon. No darker turtles. The whole reason the turtles are back is because the show was mega popular back then. You owe everything to the old cartoon and don't forget the awesome toys that came with it.

You have to admit that the TMNT reached a cult-like following and a place in pop culture because of the original cartoon. I loved the first one as a child, but I'm looking forward to the new series as an adult.

I'm the type of fan that has not read one TMNT comic, but I plan to.

[Karpo_007]

Well It is totally diffrent from the goofy kids cartoon. It has great artwork and good plot.

[Nickokapo]

I think the Mirage Series was great, it was Eastman & Laid's "Original TMNT"
Laid's?Hehehehe...anyways, i'm not the type of fan that chooses to like one side OR other (eg: mirage comics, or the toon which thanks to it being a hit raised the comic's popularity, which might've never got AS popular if it wouldn't have existed) i like everything, the toons, the comics, the live action series/movies (yes, that includes TNM :P ) i just happen to like some more than others, but i dont constantly bash one of em because of it.
So yah the new toon will be different than the old one, but big deal, it's not like it's gonna split anything for me, it'll still be tmnt, so i'll 'put it in the same bag' :P

[Mondo_Gecko]

I have read Mirage and done a bit of homework on it. But i will alwaysa like what i first saw and am familar with and that is the old cartoon. My childhood loves are like gold to me and nothing can change my original feelings about it.

The original mirage had some neat ideas: Bloodsucker the leech mutant is very cool, but i don't like that thery kill every villian they met, the Shredder and the Rat King it would have been better if you kept them around.

[Karpo_007]

Well yeah Mirage it is the most realistic of the universes.

And yeah everyone have their own opinnions, Some even like Next mutation. And Im not bashing the old cartoon. It is goofy, badly written(for the most part) and lacks action, But still, it was number one kids show for many years. It did what it was suposed to do: Kiddiefied the original concept to be suitable for children. And it did it well. Im sure everyone liked it as a kid.

[Donatello02]

Krang was cool. Don't mess with Krang. Can someone please inform me how Bebop and Rocksteady got into the whole thing, and do they have any connection with the original Mirage TMNT? Same question for Krang.

[Karpo_007]

No, they were invented for the cartoon.

[Reznorite420]

Why must everyone choose one side or another. I like the darker comics, and I also loved the sillier cartoon and yes, TNM. They are seperate universes and both have their charm for me. Neither has ant effect on the other. And I seemed to have combined elements into my own personal TMNT universe in my own mind. Canon, what's that? :lol:I REST MY CASE!!!!!

[Donatello02]

I thought Krang was a "Utrom" or whatever. Weren't those things connected with the original storyline? Like they made the mutagen stuff and what not.

[Reznorite420]

*It's not that I don't like funny, humorous things, it's just that I had a hard time seeing why they took something originally intended for young adults, and totally kiddified them down to Barney's level.Ey? If you ask me, I think one had to be AT LEAST 10 years old to watch it, not 2.

[Karpo_007]

I thought Krang was a "Utrom" or whatever. Weren't those things connected with the original storyline? Like they made the mutagen stuff and what not.

No Krang wasn't an Utrom. His appearance were copied from the Utroms touhg.

[Donatello02]

So whatever happened to the utroms? And they should make Krang into an official character for the Mirage storyline. He's cool. Cause he's a brain. And stuff...

[Karpo_007]

Utroms went home. And Krang is never going to be part of Mirage or the new show. He is part of the TMNT history.

[Donatello02]

History eh? Well, they should still bring him back and put him into the Mirage/new show storyline. Just because he was cool damn it.

[Mondo_Gecko]

I would just love if Krang, Bebop & Rocksteady made it onto the new show.

[Donatello02]

They should have been part of the original Mirage storyline. That woulda been cool.

[Mondo_Gecko]

I would have loved that too, but for me the old cartoon is the Original TMNT hands down and always be. Nice to see you Donatello02 and that you like Krang, Bebop & Rocksteady.

[Karpo_007]

Well to some people Next Mutation can be the original... But The original is What came first. It is diffrent thing what you like.

That would be same if I said that I think The movie versions of the LOTR are original...

[Donatello02]

These universes are givin me a headache. I choose the cool one. Which one is that? Yes and no. THAT is the way of the ninjitsu. Yeah, I don't know what I'm talkin about now.

[Karpo_007]

Cool one? Mirage of course. It has action, and great stories.

If you want slapstick humor, Same plot 100 times, and almost no fights, the cartoon.

Or if you want cartoon with plot, choose archie.

[Donatello02]

Whattabout Image?

[Karpo_007]

Well It basicly continues the Mirage series, But it is really violent, the TMNT get mutilated in it... Raphael's face is blown up, Donatello dies and becomes a cyborg, and Leonardo loses a Hand. Well It is not part of the Canon none of those things have happened in Volume 4.

[Wingnut]

What happens to mikey

[Karpo_007]

Mikey is the only one that Doesn't get Mutilated. I guess the comic got cancelled too soon... And one More thing: Splinter Turms into a Mutant Bat who kills people... :sick:

[Donatello02]

Mikey probably choked on something. Idiot. J/K MIKEY.

[Wingnut]

He choked on a piece of pepperoni

[heretic888]

These universes are givin me a headache. I choose the cool one. Which one is that? Yes and no. THAT is the way of the ninjitsu. Yeah, I don't know what I'm talkin about now.

Your right, you really don't know what you're talking about. By the way, the proper spelling is ninjutsu.

Mikey is the only one that Doesn't get Mutilated.

That's cuz Mikey kicks ass. :D

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By the way, I would just like to say for the record that I enjoy ALL the tmnt mediums, but some moreso than others. And the some that I enjoy moreso are the Mirage series, first movie, and Archie series.

Oh yeah, the Archie series (especially the later ones) are NOWHERE near as kiddified as the original poster portrayed. They are second only to the Mirage series in ass kickiness.

[Donatello02]

These universes are givin me a headache. I choose the cool one. Which one is that? Yes and no. THAT is the way of the ninjitsu. Yeah, I don't know what I'm talkin about now.

Your right, you really don't know what you're talking about. By the way, the proper spelling is ninjutsu.

Mikey is the only one that Doesn't get Mutilated.

That's cuz Mikey kicks ass. :D

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By the way, I would just like to say for the record that I enjoy ALL the tmnt mediums, but some moreso than others. And the some that I enjoy moreso are the Mirage series, first movie, and Archie series.

Oh yeah, the Archie series (especially the later ones) are NOWHERE near as kiddified as the original poster portrayed. They are second only to the Mirage series in ass kickiness.
Well aren't we Mr. Smartass?

[heretic888]

damn straight. :D

[beaker]

My gosh, I booted up the TMNT arcade rom last night for the first time in ages, and fell in love with that era all over again. That TMNT theme song...yes Ive bashed the cartoon, but lets face it: Without the cartoon the TMNT property wouldnt have gone anywhere. No dark and edgy TMNT movie, no NEW cartoon, etc. I lost interest in the TMNT cartoon after awhile, but season one was gold. Im not going to history revision and say the cartoon was crap. For the time, as others have said, memories of that cartoon are very good. The whole 1989 era, between the video games, movie, toys, cartoon etc was great. Then by 1990 it seemed to all unravel like everything else in life did.

There is no denying that the original TMNT is the mid to late 80's series.
However, its safe to say most of us got into TMNT through the cartoon in the late 80's...and *hopefully* also discovered the great 80's series. As it stands the only thing that truly bugs the crap out of me is the Archie series, period. That just should even had been made.

But man, hearing that TMNT cartoon theme song just brought back so much good memories...turtle power indeed.

[Mondo_Gecko]

THANK YOU!!! THE TMNT cartoon was very good and it rocked. The Turtles, Splinter, April, Shrdder, Krang, Bebop & Rocksteady, The Frogs, Mondo Gecko. All good things Ahh the golden memories of Childhood.

[beaker]

THANK YOU!!! THE TMNT cartoon was very good and it rocked. The Turtles, Splinter, April, Shrdder, Krang, Bebop & Rocksteady, The Frogs, Mondo Gecko. All good things Ahh the golden memories of Childhood.

Indeed...it is time to bring back the fun, innocence, and wonder of our childhood. I think people realize this, hence the new TF and TMNT revival. Though they key is evolution...simply coming out with old dated Archie TMNT era shirts at Hot Topic isnt the key. Its fresh and new, such is why I am endlessly excited about the new show...less than a month to go!

[Wingnut]

ah yes childhood *reflects on the best time of my life*

[Karpo_007]

True with out the old cartoon there wouldn't have been any movies.

And the old TMNT is still good as a kid's show, But if you watch 170 episodes in few months like I did, You will see that you have over grown it too.

[Donatello02]

Just yesterday I rewatched my old turtle tapes, like 4 of'em, which have the first couple of episodes. Then I watch the movie. Man...damn near jizzed my pants. Brought bac ka lot of good memories. Ahh, if only life was as simple as it were then. PLayin with your figures, watchin turtle cartoons, man..I miss those days.

[Mondo_Gecko]

AMEN yeah i miss those days. Nothing broght back it lilke watching the Frogs and Mondo Gecko episodes. Damn that was a trip.

[Donatello02]

NO...what was a trip was when the opening credits started and that theme song played. THAT, and opening up one of those figures. The most vivid memory is my near the local mall plaza, which is still there today thankfully, opening a brand new Krang figure. Man...was I frickin amazed by that peice of plastic.

[Mondo_Gecko]

YES the theme song that rocked and seeing that now again gets me so excited.

[Peanut]

I would just like to add that anime.......sucks.........the end.

[beaker]

Just yesterday I rewatched my old turtle tapes, like 4 of'em, which have the first couple of episodes. Then I watch the movie. Man...damn near jizzed my pants. Brought bac ka lot of good memories. Ahh, if only life was as simple as it were then. PLayin with your figures, watchin turtle cartoons, man..I miss those days.

Oh man I so know...seeing the original TMNT in the theatres when I was 12...oh dude. Perhaps the greatest movie experience next to seeing Jedi(original version) in theatres. I remember I was *expletve deleted* blown the eff away by the first TMNT. It was dark, violent, edgy...yet had humor, puppetry, animatronics, and still was all PG. Back in the 80's they could pull stuff like that...then came the 90's, and well you saw what an abomination the films turned into;) But yes, oh yes the memories! Seeing TMNT, going next door to the comic shop and reading the comics an rpg books. Oh sweet glorious times, with nary an Archie comic in sight(err, at least I didnt waste my time with those) Youre so right...man seeing that TMNT arcade intro on the MAME really jarred my memory...man I long for those great 1989 days! Hopefully that magic will be rekindled february 8th!

But yeah, nothing like opening up those those toys, going to Burger King and getting all the TMNT toys, watching the cartoon, playing the video games, etc.

[Jephael]

I would just like to say for the record that I enjoy ALL the tmnt mediums, but some moreso than others. And the some that I enjoy moreso are the Mirage series, first movie, and Archie series.

I agree with you there, Heretic!

Oh yeah, the Archie series (especially the later ones) are NOWHERE near as kiddified as the original poster portrayed. They are second only to the Mirage series in ass kickiness.

I love the Archie series! It was great from beginning to end! Though it does make me alittle upset that they never revived the Mutanimals in some way. They were just killed off like a bunch of rabid pets. :tconfuse:

[HorseTechie]

On the flip side... :D

If it wasn't for the old 1989 cartoon, Eastman & Laird and Mirage studios would not have done as well as they did, or create such a fab fad int he concept of a Ninja Turtle. Those two made the decison to market their comic characters in that way to get the money.

Because of that reason, I'm not so bitter about the cartoon. I can understand their motives to simply succeed, even if it wasn't to cater to the rest of the fans who liked the darker comic books better. But they did their best to make up for that with City at War... until all the wealth and funding ran out. Which then, so did the fad and the other good TMNT times from the early 90's.

Being a fan of all the do for so long, I've also come to appreciate everything Mirage has done. And to also appreciate just how hard it is to market to the general public to keep a quickly tiring concept alive!

*sees people not getting her point anyway, so she sighs and goes on her way*

[Karpo_007]

Well The comic was making money too, But of course they got some extra from licensing.

[Sparvid]

On the flip side... :D

If it wasn't for the old 1989 cartoon, Eastman & Laird and Mirage studios would not have done as well as they did, or create such a fab fad int he concept of a Ninja Turtle.But it it wasn't for the 1984 comic, there would not be a 1989 cartoon... :P

[HorseTechie]

Heh.. you missed my point. I like the comic, and I would rather have that over the cartoon. But the big TMNT fad came from the cartoon, not the comic.

Personally, if it wasn;t for the cartoon, that lead tot he first movie, I would have not read those articles that told me the whole thing came from the comic... which made me wanna go out and find them.

Which then brings up another classic debate: which came first, the chicken or the egg? :P :lol:

[Nickokapo]

The chicken of course, which evolved from some creature that looks like a cross between robert deniro and a spoon millions of years ago!
Or maybe not...errrr anyways, sure, i guess that if we didnt have the comic the toon would've never been made, but if he wasnt for the toon many of you probably would've never know the comic existed...'sides, to me the toon is sacred :P it brings back memories..

[beaker]

oh yeah, there is no denying the late 80's cartoon is the reason we had so much cool TMNT stuff, like the arcade games or the first movie.

[Karpo_007]

The postive side of TMNT turning pokemon was that. We got one great movie, and many great games. Downside is, that now majority thinks TMNT as a goofy kids thing.

[beaker]

The postice side of TMNT turning pokemon was that. We got one great movie, and many great games. Downside is, that now majority thinks TMNT as a goofy kids thing.

Very true, and that is my latter opinion on how the overhyped killed the brand. But let em think that way, shows who the real fans are, who stuck with the TMNT all this time. Makes it that much more special ya know?

[Karpo_007]

Yeah...

[Reznorite420]

Your right, you really don't know what you're talking about. By the way, the proper spelling is ninjutsu.It's his right to really know that he doesn't know what he's talking about? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

By the way, the proper grammatical use according to your context is "you're" :P :P :P

[Nickokapo]

Yeah...if you're gonna correct someone's grammar, first check yours ;)
Meh...and all this time i've been spelling it ninjitsu...OMG. :(

[Kali]

Eh, it's like Michaelangelo and Michelangelo. I know the correcting spelling of ninjutsu, but sometimes I still use "ninjitsu" if I'm gonna go fantasy with it. Usually, it's the fictional works in which you see the spelling ninjitsu.

[Reznorite420]

Yeah...if you're gonna correct someone's grammar, first check yours ;)Ummmmmm, where's the problem in mine? This is a student in Enriched English class you're talking to :P :P :P I would HOPE I know how to get things right....

Ooops....I forgot what this topic is about.