Oh boy, I require some kind of clarification

[Death's Head]

In a forum I tend to browse around in, but never post, there is a topic that deals with various disputes over what characters would win in various battles. Typically, it ends in arguments. However, whenever the turtles are used, there abilities are typically made unclear. And they usually lose what ever matches that they are put in. I recall this one guy stating that they can't be taken seriously, unless a thread is made with scans depicting their various feats. So I ask, in the orginal Mirage comics, what exactly are they capable of? How strong and fast are they? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. From various acounts, I've heard they are used to taking on guys with Spider-Man level strength (that would be Leatherhead and the Triceraton batellions, as an individual stated). And that individually they are each capable of lifting vans, plus each capable of taking on small armies of trained warriors( Foot soldiers he means?) But proof was never made. And as I've said in my introduction, I have trouble locating the Mirage comics. I only have a handful. Either way, can someone clarify that, please?

[Anarky]

They might be stronger than an average human, but they certainly can't lift cars.

If I had to compare the comic-TMNT to a better known hero, I'd say they're Batman without all the gadgets and all the detectiving.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Anarky pretty much hit it there.

In terms of speed and agility, they top Batman there. They're jumping ability is pretty good, not at the likes of Spider-Man, but they can cover long distances in mere minutes by jumping rooftop to rooftop.

They're strength, above average human level, I'd say on par with an olympic athlete. Yes they have taken on enemies stronger than them, but that can be attributed to their speed and fighting skills.

They're stamina is probably above average, due to their training. And their shells give them greater durability.

They're fighting skills is they're best attribute. Definatley on par with individuals like Batman, Black Canary, probably even Bronze Tiger.

[Anarky]

In terms of speed and agility, they top Batman there.
That is just fan-talk there. We can't say who's more agile, the TMNT or Batman. Also, there's no way we can confirm or deny that, so that quote is worthless and shouldn't be paid attention to.

Fact is, we can't compare the TMNT to "similarly equipped" heroes, unless to those they had a crossover with. Basically, we can say that they don't have super speed or super strength or super hearing, but it ends there. So let's not go all fanbiased at the issue and try to give Max a real answer.

[Jester]

That's probably about right, maybe also like Electra, only more durable due to their shells. The 4 of them cooperatively could lift a car (as in some episodes of the OT) but they are essentially just highly trained martial artists who have the blessing of a hard shell to give them some added protection.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

That is just fan-talk there. We can't say who's more agile, the TMNT or Batman. Also, there's no way we can confirm or deny that, so that quote is worthless and shouldn't be paid attention to.

Fact is, we can't compare the TMNT to "similarly equipped" heroes, unless to those they had a crossover with. Basically, we can say that they don't have super speed or super strength or super hearing, but it ends there. So let's not go all fanbiased at the issue and try to give Max a real answer.

I am giving him a real answer. Look, you read enough comics, it's easier to compare. There doesn't need to me a crossover, you just have to know the characters well enough. it helps when you know the heroes strenghts and limitations, thats how I can give an accurate comparisson.

[iris]

That is just fan-talk there. We can't say who's more agile, the TMNT or Batman. Also, there's no way we can confirm or deny that, so that quote is worthless and shouldn't be paid attention to.

Fact is, we can't compare the TMNT to "similarly equipped" heroes, unless to those they had a crossover with. Basically, we can say that they don't have super speed or super strength or super hearing, but it ends there. So let's not go all fanbiased at the issue and try to give Max a real answer.
Well, we don't have official word from The Creators, but I think it would be fair to say that Batman can't do some of the things his teenage mutant counterparts can do. You could say well maybe he can do them but chooses not to... but that doesn't make that much sense. :p

[Quiet_Guy]

Good topic, I often wondered what about their physical abilities. I always just assumed they had the average strength of a teen but that their agility and speed were that of a world class athlete.

[Cascadia]

All of your points are valid. Peter Laird pointed out with the 2003k series is that there is one thing that the turtles lack that the majority of comic book heroes...super powers.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

All of your points are valid. Peter Laird pointed out with the 2003k series is that there is one thing that the turtles lack that the majority of comic book heroes...super powers.

I brought this question up with some comic fans on another forum. In terms of fighting ability, they say they're most likely on par with Daredevil, Deathstroke, and Iron Fist. Something I would agree with.

[MadPirateBunny]

I recall this one guy stating that they can't be taken seriously


BATHFAMY!

pure bathfamy!

Whomever thaid that needth to be theriously shtricken with thome evil plague!

[Death's Head]

BATHFAMY!

pure bathfamy!

Whomever thaid that needth to be theriously shtricken with thome evil plague!


True that. Anyway, if Leatherhead and the Triceraton batellions are actually Spider-Man level in terms of strength, then there would be nothing that olympian-level beings could do to them, in straight-up battles. I do think that the bad guys feel the assaults from the turtles, and are capable of physically incapacitating said opponets. I'm just assuming, but I think the turtles might be stronger then we think. I don't know.

[OA]

I also tend to agree with the TMNT having maybe slightly above-average strength but to respond to your last post Max, you don't need to have extreme strength to take down a larger, more powerful opponent. A very small person can EASILY take down a much larger, stronger opponent using correct TECHNIQUE. And that, if anywhere, is where the TMNT excel. They have excellent technique in their fighting forms. In their need to fight multiple opponents (often TONS of Foot Soldiers) they need to have precise techniqe to take down one (or 2 or 3) efficently and move on to the next.

Lastly, their greatest attribute, IMO, is that there are FOUR of them. Even though individually they can be very productive in battle, they are much more of a force as a unit. When taking their numbers into account, i think they can very seriously be seen in the same light as some of the above mentioned fighters (Batman, Daredevil, etc.)

[Quiet_Guy]

I'm curious, but where was it said that Leatherhead and the Triceratons had Spider-man level strength?

[Jester]

True that. Anyway, if Leatherhead and the Triceraton batellions are actually Spider-Man level in terms of strength, then there would be nothing that olympian-level beings could do to them, in straight-up battles. I do think that the bad guys feel the assaults from the turtles, and are capable of physically incapacitating said opponets. I'm just assuming, but I think the turtles might be stronger then we think. I don't know.
That's assuming that they are....Spidey can, according to DK's Spider-man: The Ultimate Guide, lift nearly 10 tons...or 20,000 pounds. I see the Trics and LH as being able to lift probably 500-700 lbs, but I'm not sure, it's never speciffically stated, but I'm sure it's nowhere near 10 tons.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I'm curious, but where was it said that Leatherhead and the Triceratons had Spider-man level strength?

I don't really know how strong the Triceratons are, and I don't think we've seen Leatherhead's true strength. Spidey can lift up to 10-tons, something we have'nt seen the above characters do.

I would think Leatherhead and the Triceratons are somehwere at Killer Croc's or Hourman's level. Probably even Sub Mariner's.

[Quiet_Guy]

I don't really know how strong the Triceratons are, and I don't think we've seen Leatherhead's true strength. Spidey can lift up to 10-tons, something we have'nt seen the above characters do.

I would think Leatherhead and the Triceratons are somehwere at Killer Croc's or Hourman's level. Probably even Sub Mariner's.

If I remember correctly, Sub Mariner trading card has his strength listed as a 6 or which puts him close to the 100 tons range. You think Leatherhead might be that strong?

[Jester]

I was about to say, Namor's probably stronger than even Spidey

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

If I remember correctly, Sub Mariner trading card has his strength listed as a 6 or which puts him close to the 100 tons range. You think Leatherhead might be that strong?

Not that strong. LH is probably in the 4-5 ton range.

[Thwomp]

I think the following information I'm going to quote is taken from an official TMNT RPG book of some kind (note that this is back when the Turtles were around 15 years old):

Donatello (at 5'2" and 180 lbs.) can lift 390 lbs.
Leonardo (at 5'2" and 180 lbs.) can lift 600 lbs.
Michaelangelo (at 5'2" and 180 lbs.) can lift 640 lbs.
Raphael (at 5'2" and 180 lbs.) can lift 1200 lbs.
Splinter (at 4'10" and 150 lbs.) can lift 360 lbs.
Shredder (at 6'2" and 240 lbs.) can lift 760 lbs.

And, here's the kicker: Casey Jones (6'2 and 225 lbs.) can lift 1320 lbs.

[Quiet_Guy]

LOL, Casey was juiced, lol.

[Death's Head]

I also tend to agree with the TMNT having maybe slightly above-average strength but to respond to your last post Max, you don't need to have extreme strength to take down a larger, more powerful opponent. A very small person can EASILY take down a much larger, stronger opponent using correct TECHNIQUE. And that, if anywhere, is where the TMNT excel. They have excellent technique in their fighting forms. In their need to fight multiple opponents (often TONS of Foot Soldiers) they need to have precise techniqe to take down one (or 2 or 3) efficently and move on to the next.

Lastly, their greatest attribute, IMO, is that there are FOUR of them. Even though individually they can be very productive in battle, they are much more of a force as a unit. When taking their numbers into account, i think they can very seriously be seen in the same light as some of the above mentioned fighters (Batman, Daredevil, etc.)

Seems plausible. But regarding the strength of the Triceratons and Leatherhead, there's no proof saying that they could lift around ten
tons. Yet, nothing was shown to rule it out, either. They've just never
been truly measured in that aspect.