Who is your favorite TMNT.

[Raphael555]

Which turtle is your favorite and, which turtle do you think has the most fans in your area?

[Rooish]

Mine is Mike, and Don seems to be the most popular with my friends. I'd say in order I like:

Mike
Raph
Leo
Don

But don't worry, I love them all.

[Time Mistress]

I can't decide between Mike & Raph myself. And I have a friend who likes Don.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

For me, it's Mike, Raph, Don & Leo. But the last three change order quite often these days... As far as the individual character fanbase around VA, well I couldn't tell you for sure...

[Raphael555]

My Favorite Turtle has always been Raphael from when I was little, and he is still my favorite turtle today. In my area all the turtles are about even.

[Masked Ninja]

I can't pick anymore. I'm a Leo/Don in personality, so I might be biased toward them a little (especially Don, these days). Michelangelo is also fun, and though I relate very little with Raph's personality type, he's cool in his own way.

When I draw the Turtles, though, Raph and Don get sketched a lot. No idea why.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I love em all, but Raphael is my favorite.

[Ecto Jedi]

Don's always been my favourite for as long as I can remember. I've forgotten the specific reasons, but I'm such a creature of habit that I suspect I'll always be a bit partial to him.

As far as his incarnations go, I'll always most enjoy his portrayal in TMNT I in 1990. I dislike his voice in the current TMNT cartoon, and I only hope he'll sound a bit better in the upcoming movie.

[Rooish]

Masked Ninja, I always end up drawing Raph and Don most, too! Weird.

And Ecto Jedi, I also dislike Don's voice in the new 'toon... I thought I was the only one! It's like there's nothing in his new voice but nerd. ;) It sounds like it will be a bit deeper in the movie, though.

[Bad Guys Lover]

Raphael rules!:D
But they`re all really cute;)

[Jo Dawn]

Don. Always has been, always will be. But if you're looking for order, it goes...

Don
Leo
Rap
Mike.



As far as his incarnations go, I'll always most enjoy his portrayal in TMNT I in 1990. I dislike his voice in the current TMNT cartoon, and I only hope he'll sound a bit better in the upcoming movie.

Out of curiosity... What makes that your favorite portrayal of him, seeing as it was the most out of character version of Don that we've seen, ever? Personally, I hate TMNT I version of Don. But I'm interested to see why it's your favorite.

If you don't wanna discuss here, we can do it via PM, if you like. :)

[Spawn Guy]

Leo
Don
Raph
Mike


I like Leo for a lot of reasons. I'm as disciplined as he is, I'm an older brother myself, I'm usually the straight man, although when not around other people I've got Mikey's sense of humour, and outside the Mirage continuity he wears my favourite colour.

What can I say? I just love the guy as much as a (hopefully) heterosexual male can love a fictional mutated reptile ninja.

[Warhorse]

Raph's my favorite. But when it comes down to my second favorites, depends on the medium. In the old toon, I liked Leo second best, in the 2k3 toon, Donnie is second best and in the movies, gotta love Mikey!:)

Also, in my area, seems Raph is the favorite. My friends and family love it when he loses his temper. Think it's the funniest thing in the world.

[triplexxx]

As I've said many times before, I love all TMNT equally. Personally, I can relate to all the turtles in some way or another:
*Like Leonardo, I'm serious and disciplined.
*Like Raphael, I have anger issues and am a loner, and yet still a great soft spot for family.
*Like Donatello, I'm academically intelligent, math being my best subject, which applies a lot to science; also, I'm emotionally vulnerable like him.
*Like Michaelangelo, I enjoy the fun things in life and maintain a positive outlook on life.
~I'm a person of multiple personalities.
I find that all of the turtle's personalities can relate to that of a normal teenager. Truth is, to me, "normal" is just a made-up word whose meaning changes with every person's perspective, if only a little. (kind of like in "Shawshank Redemption" when Morgan Freeman said "To me, 'rehabilitated' is just a made-up word.")

[cowabunga14]

I'd have to say Mikey because I feel my character is a lot like his. He's also the Turtle I relate to the most and that generally has to do with my attitude. I'm not a brain like Don, not a leader like Leo, not a hothead like Raph, but sometimes I can be a clown like Mike.

[Ecto Jedi]

Out of curiosity... What makes that your favorite portrayal of him, seeing as it was the most out of character version of Don that we've seen, ever? Personally, I hate TMNT I version of Don. But I'm interested to see why it's your favorite.

I dunno, perhaps it has more to do with personal taste than anything else, but I love Corey Feldman's Donatello. 'Probably always will, too. It gives him a stronger personality, as if he were -- you know -- one of the guys, so to speak. Perhaps that's a really bad way of saying it, but it's the best I can do. :)

He had a good voice in the old 'toon, as well. It was different than in the movie, that's for sure, but it was still pretty awesome. The 2K3 version just doesn't seem to cut it -- it's not strong enough. I don't care watcha say, Don doesn't always have to be 100% nerd. Granted, he's the technical genius of the group, and he should always speak gobbledegook, but, dammit, he can sound gruff while doing it, can't he?

[Warhorse]

I dunno, perhaps it has more to do with personal taste than anything else, but I love Corey Feldman's Donatello. 'Probably always will, too. It gives him a stronger personality, as if he were -- you know -- one of the guys, so to speak. Perhaps that's a really bad way of saying it, but it's the best I can do. :)

He had a good voice in the old 'toon, as well. It was different than in the movie, that's for sure, but it was still pretty awesome. The 2K3 version just doesn't seem to cut it -- it's not strong enough. I don't care watcha say, Don doesn't always have to be 100% nerd. Granted, he's the technical genius of the group, and he should always speak gobbledegook, but, dammit, he can sound gruff while doing it, can't he?

I liked how Corey Feldman handled Don. It wasn't bad. But what do you think it would have been like if they actually had Corey Feldman be a character in one of the movies? Like portaying someone like Mouth from Goonies or something. You think it would ruin the movie, or make for some very funny scenes?

[Ecto Jedi]

I liked how Corey Feldman handled Don. It wasn't bad. But what do you think it would have been like if they actually had Corey Feldman be a character in one of the movies? Like portaying someone like Mouth from Goonies or something. You think it would ruin the movie, or make for some very funny scenes?

Umm...I dunno. All I've ever seen him in is Friday the 13th Part IV: The Final Chapter, so I can't really pass judgment on the guy as an actor. All I can say, really, is that I really enjoyed Donatello from TMNT I and III. Come to think of it, Don from Secret of the Ooze wasn't that bad either, but that probably had more to do with the progressively high-tech facial animatronics than anything else.

So, to sum it all up, I love Don's voice in the first and third movies, and really dislike it in the new cartoon. Hopefully he'll sound a tad cooler in the movie. :D

[Jo Dawn]

He had a good voice in the old 'toon, as well. It was different than in the movie, that's for sure, but it was still pretty awesome. The 2K3 version just doesn't seem to cut it -- it's not strong enough. I don't care watcha say, Don doesn't always have to be 100% nerd. Granted, he's the technical genius of the group, and he should always speak gobbledegook, but, dammit, he can sound gruff while doing it, can't he?

Actually... Well, I know it's all personal opinion, yes... But his voice from the old was barely cutting it 'ok'... as for Feldman... I like him as an actor, but I absolutely HATED him as Don.

Don isn't a washed up Mikey. And, really, no. He's not supposed to sound gruff. He's supposed to be 'soft spoken'. Something that Feldman certainly never was, and never can be. I thought his 2003 VA was perfect, right on the mark. Don's character was always supposed to have a softer voice, but yes... He can speak more... manly, if that's the way you prefer to look at it. Sam (Don's 2K3 VA) can do both. I think he's perfect, and I'm ecstatic that they got someone similar for the new movie.

You think it would ruin the movie, or make for some very funny scenes?

Ruin. Sorry, Corey. I loves ya, but NOT in TMNT.

[Warhorse]

To Ecto Cooler, if you're interested. Some of my favorite Corey movies are The Goonies (which you should watch, that movie is a trip!) Stand By Me, and License to Drive. He also had a bit part in Gremlins.

[Jo Dawn]

Stand By Me is awesome.


ON TOPIC -

Um, Don. Yes. Don.

[Ecto Jedi]

To Ecto Cooler, if you're interested. Some of my favorite Corey movies are The Goonies (which you should watch, that movie is a trip!) Stand By Me, and License to Drive. He also had a bit part in Gremlins.

Did you just call me Ecto-Cooler? :P

[Warhorse]

:lol: I did, didn't I.:lol: Where in the hell did that come from. I think I heard someone called that and it got stuck in my brain. Sorry Ecto 1:D Oh, I mean Ecto Jedi. I won't do it again, but I am also too lazy to re-edit my posts.

[Ecto Jedi]

:lol: I did, didn't I.:lol: Where in the hell did that come from. I think I heard someone called that and it got stuck in my brain. Sorry Ecto 1:D Oh, I mean Ecto Jedi. I won't do it again, but I am also too lazy to re-edit my posts.

Yeah, I understand -- there actually was another dude on here by the name of Ecto_Cooler.

Just don't let it happen again. :|

[Aignatius]

Corey Feldman was also in Lost Boys. :P

While I can relate most to Mikey, then Raph, my fave is Don.
Leo is my least fave, but it doesn't mean I don't like him. He represents the least compatible personality with mine. :P

[Class is Pain 101]

1.Donatello
2.Raphael
3.Mikey
4.Leo

Mikey used to be my favorite as a kid, but Donnie is now, Raph and Mike's places switch often, but I will always hate Leo.

[Roseangelo]

My favorite always has been and always will be Mikey. Despite the fact that I really do share traits with all four Turtles, Mike is just the one that I've latched onto. I love how he can be so care-free and goofy but then a total badass when he needs to be.

The traditional order I've held is:
Mike
Don
Raph
Leo

But the 2k3 series really made me like Leo a lot more, so those last three spots have somewhat fluctuated in recent years.

[iris]

Stand By Me is awesome.


ON TOPIC -

Um, Don. Yes. Don.
Why is Donnatello so great?


:tcouch:

[MadPirateBunny]

Corey Feldman was also in Lost Boys. :P

love that movie!

[Rooish]

Jo Dawn, I agree with you that Don's voice should be softer. Sometimes in the new toon I think his VA really overacts though... he sounds a little too whiny. He's actually the reason why Don is my "least favourite," although the movie version doesn't help, either. If only the comics existed, he'd be a near-favourite but I don't think anyone knows how to portray him well otherwise. (Plus I basically am Mikey, although I'm second-most like Don.) I can't wait to see him in the new movie. I have a feeling he will own it, although subtly.

But getting to my point, I thought movie Don was a terrible representation of Don, but a really cool character in his own right. He got all the really sharp, funny lines (heh, like the Kodak moment). He was more of a comic book nerd than a sensitive introvert in the movies, and for that I though Corey Feldman was bang-on. Heh, Don was hilarious. What was with that straw hat he was wearing during training? And he was wandering around the farm humming "Old Macdonald." He was pretty hilarious, albeit not exactly a thoughtful genius. His role was too small, though.

Warhorse, I LOVE The Goonies! Man I gotta rent that.

[Jo Dawn]

But getting to my point, I thought movie Don was a terrible representation of Don, but a really cool character in his own right. He got all the really sharp, funny lines (heh, like the Kodak moment). He was more of a comic book nerd than a sensitive introvert in the movies, and for that I though Corey Feldman was bang-on. Heh, Don was hilarious. What was with that straw hat he was wearing during training? And he was wandering around the farm humming "Old Macdonald." He was pretty hilarious, albeit not exactly a thoughtful genius. His role was too small, though.


Well... Yeah. The movies (except the second, and the third to a degree) were the worst representation of Don ever. The first one was the worst. Gladly, we've been reassured that he won't be like that in the new movie, by Kevin himself. :) However, I never thought Don was funny in the first movie. In fact, I sat there, head in hands, very disappointed.

Though I was thinking last night, that really, my grudge wasn't so much with Feldman as the voice (though I still don't LOVE) but with his poor characterization overall.

And iris... I... I don't even know where to START with that... You'll have to give me a minute.

[Ecto Jedi]

He got all the really sharp, funny lines (heh, like the Kodak moment). He was more of a comic book nerd than a sensitive introvert in the movies, and for that I though Corey Feldman was bang-on. Heh, Don was hilarious. What was with that straw hat he was wearing during training? And he was wandering around the farm humming "Old Macdonald." He was pretty hilarious, albeit not exactly a thoughtful genius.

'Exactly why I think Don's portrayal in the first movie was the greatest. :)

[Rooish]

I wanna hear Jo Dawn's reasons that Don is the best. I'm sure she can give a much better list than I could give for Mikey. ;)

[Sage Ninja]

Rooish, is that Raph or Mikey in the avatar? I can't tell.

As to who is my favorite turtle? I love tham all just about equally, with a slight more bit of emphasis on Michaelangelo. I fell in love with Michaelangelo and his portrayal in the classic cartoon. He was cool and laid back and fun. the new toons Michaelangelo took a little getting used too but a came to love him him too, and I like the edge they gave him in the new toon.

other than that all the turtles i love. :P

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Rooish, is that Raph or Mikey in the avatar? I can't tell.



It's Mikey, you can see the orange.

Plus the name, Rooish=Mikey.

[JetsAndHeels]

Leo is my favorite...always has been. I like that he is the leader and has a strong will. He is the most disciplined and puts family above everything else. Of course like everyone else here I love them all. After Leo i guess it would be Raph, Mike, and then Don.

[Rooish]

Thanks, ThemanthatwouldbeRaph. ;)

Sage Ninja, I'm not sure how much you read the comics (sorry, you might have said before but I forget). In the new comics one of the characters (Shadow) calls Mikey "Rooish" as a nickname. I thought it was pretty cute.

My avatar is Mikey; he has some subtle differences in face shape in the movies from Raph, although their bandannas did look like a similar colour because Mikey wore a dark saturated orange bandanna. :)

And JetsAndHeels, I hear ya there. I really do love all the guys. I suppose I ranked them in order of how much I enjoy them.

[Sage Ninja]

Thanks, ThemanthatwouldbeRaph. ;)

Sage Ninja, I'm not sure how much you read the comics (sorry, you might have said before but I forget). In the new comics one of the characters (Shadow) calls Mikey "Rooish" as a nickname. I thought it was pretty cute.

My avatar is Mikey; he has some subtle differences in face shape in the movies from Raph, although their bandannas did look like a similar colour because Mikey wore a dark saturated orange bandanna. :)

Oh, Rooish is Mikey's nick name :| That is diffrent. Whyt does shadow call him that, was there a reason given? Does she have cute nick names for the other turtles. And you are right Mike and Raph do look diffrent in most of the movies, but the freckles kinda through me because genrally Live ACTION MIKEY didn't have freckles, so I thought it could be Raph.

[Roseangelo]

Oh, Rooish is Mikey's nick name :| That is diffrent. Whyt does shadow call him that, was there a reason given? Does she have cute nick names for the other turtles.

I believe the story on the name is that Peter Laird's daughter had a cat named Mikey and over the years the nickname for the cat evolved through several names to Rooish, so he decided to use that in the book.

[Time Mistress]

Mike to Mikeroo to Rooish as I understand it. :)

[VGiselleH]

Mike to Mikeroo to Rooish as I understand it. :)

I couldn't imagine how it possibly could have gone from Mikey to Rooish, so thanks for clearing that up ^_^

My favs:

Don
Mikey
Raph
Leo

There used to be a big gap between Mikey and Raph, and an even bigger one between Raph and Leo. But nowadays they are all almost top of each other...though the order always remains the same, lol.

[Sewer Bull]

I must admit that my personal preference gradually changes from Raph to Don.

Oh well.

[Bmaga123]

Raphael is my favorite and from there it goes Don, Leo, Mike

[Zealwing]

Thats a hard question! I really like all of them but if I had to pick a favorite it would be leo.

1 Leo
2 Raph
3 Don
4 Mikey

[Sage Ninja]

Ralph isn't a turtle :| he is a mouse that rides around a toy motorcycle.

[Colliwog]

My first favorite was Mikey, but now it's Raph, and has been for several years. I never cared much for Leo or Don at all, really.:ohwell:

[Masked Ninja]

Ralph isn't a turtle :| he is a mouse that rides around a toy motorcycle.You have made my day.. thanks for saying this. :tcool:

[Sage Ninja]

You have made my day.. thanks for saying this. :tcool:


**squeals** you remember Ralph on The mortorcylce!! Wow you are like the first person that remembers him!! I was beginning to think I dreamed him up. Can I hug you? :D

If I had to go by diffrent TMNT mediums. I would say, I like New toon Leonardo better than classic toon Leonardo, and here is why:

New Toon Leonardo: I have to say that Leonardo has always been one of my favorite turtles, he was a close second to my most favorite turtle Michaelangelo ever since I was a kid. And I loved classic toon Leonardo even though other people didn't because they thought he was boring and whinney or what not. But I always liked his commanding way about him and his role of leader of the TMNT, and I never really found him annoying or whinney. I've always liked his voice...

However, I have to say that I like New toon Leonardo the best. He has an all together more easy going and down to earth personality than classic toon Leonardo, and he seems more calm and conifident (at least in the first three seasons). He is also authoritive and commanding with out being condensending and abrasive. He has a natural love for his brothers that is very apparent, and is the typical big brother figure, but with out all the negetive aspects you would expect from a big brother. He also has that really cool voice. Also like his gentle disposition despite the fact that he is a warrior, and his love for the code of honor.

As far as Classic and New toon Donatello goes, I like them both equally.

Classic toon Donatello was more out spoken and comanding and he had good natural humour that I liked. He also (in my oppinion)had an a hidden dark side that I could detect and I was always waiting for him to snap and become a villan. Donatello's duplicant gave me that, he could also be a little arrogant which I thought was hillarious. I also liked his voice!

New Toon Donatello is more quite and anti-social and I think he has the most charming personality of the two Donatello's. He is sweet and has such a cute voice and sounds (to me) the most like teenager. I like how he can sometimes me a bit condesending toward his brothers because he knows so much, and I like the mystery surrounding him and what makes him tick.

So to me both representations are very likeable and interesting.

As to Raphael, even though I like both poratrayals and even though the New Toon is closer to what his intended personality is supposed to be like I like classic Raphael best.

Classic toon Raphael was sassy, humourous, and a sarcastic smartass! I loved how he would interject with his own view of situations and make obsevations on situations, often time pointing out how stupid some one was. He also had a suble way of putting people in their place which I loved. Also I noticed that he at times seemed to rather agitated and I believe that was why he was so sarcastic.

New toon Raphael I did like so much at first, though he finnally grew on me in seasons three and four. At first I saw him as some kind of atganistic bully, who was insenstive and would make f-ed up remarks to people that where tottally off base and ignorant. His attitude behavior used to irritate me and I just didn't understand is persoanlity to much. Although he can be funny and sardonic at times which I appricait, and "bully" aspect of him has been toned down a bit. And he seems that he is finnaly maturing and becomeing less of an agitated character. Now if he would stop smacking Mikey I would be happy.

With New Toon and Classic toon Michaelangelo, I'd say its a dead tye. Although New Toon Michaelangelo took a while for me to get used too, he is now tyed with classic toon Michaelangelo, I think I have given my reasons for why I like Michaelangelo a thousand times before so I won't bore you with a uptenth explaintion. Except to say that what I didn't like about old toon Michaelangelo was how the writters gradually made him the worst fighter of the four that always needed saving. that was such a disservcise to his character because he started out so strong. The one thing I don't like about New toon Mikey is how they sterotype him as merely the comic relief. I think their is so much more facets and depth to Mikey's character that I wish the writters would explore.

[Warhorse]

Responding to sage ninja's respond. Very insightful. I too have favorite Turtles depending on the medium except for Raph, he's always been able to catch my eye out of the rest of them in all mediums.

I agree, I like new toon Leo better than the classic toon. I also liked him in the first movie, but he seemed off in the other two.

Donnie I have always liked in all the mediums, but I prefer him in the new toon as well.

Mikey now, I only like him in the movies. Both toons I found him insanely annoying. But he was just absolutely adorable in the movies. All three of them to be exact.

But your comment on not understanding Raphael's attitude in the first three seasons of 2k3 toon. I wonder if it's the fans who share his similar anger issues that seems to tolerate him more. Could that be the case? I'm more of the quick to get frustrated and pissed off, and I will throw things when agitated enough, and I honestly can't explain why I get so angry. I just do. And I see Raph's frustrations in that he can't walk around the world with the humans, but he is torn that he feels obligated that he has to protect them too, and I understand that anger. In that it's better to let it out the keep it in.

[triplexxx]

My take on Sage Ninja's POV:
*Leonardo: in both toons he's always a good de facto leader, he's not boring or whiney in either cartoon, and always pretty calm and confident except on few occasions. Also, he does always got this gentle disposition and is authoritative and commanding and not condescending or abrasive except on few occasions. One thing I don't like is when it's inserted in the dialog that him making a joke is a surprise. I never get surprised by it; Leonardo is serious, but he's by no means stuck-up or humor-less; there have been several occassions in the OT where he made jokes or made sarcastic remarks in battle, and he still does in the NT (e.g. Turtles in Space Part 2: "You guys look tired, have a 'seat'"), true, he doesn't as often in the NT, but neither do the others.
*Donatello: in OT did have a more natural sense of humor, though he was a bit condescending at times. He was charming and had a cute voice in both toons. He may have been a bit more out-spoken in OT, but in either universe, while he does generally have a calm disposition, he still doesn't take crap from anyone. Personally, I don't find Donatello (OT and NT) as quiet as some people seem to think he is, he's generally easy-going, but he's very assertive in a serious situation.
*Raphael: I did like his humorous and observant portrayal in the OT. I believed him when he said in the OT "Nothing beats cutting wit" (A Thing About Rats). And he does have a lot of wit/street-smarts in both toons, he's not dumb or stupid. I can relate to his anger issues in the NT, I find him to be very rational and reasonable (especially in "City at War" arc, when he described getting involved in the gangster war as "throwing more fuel on the fire"). Although I too don't enjoy his constant whacking of Michaelangelo, sometimes he has good reason, but he tends to overdo it sometimes.
*Michaelangelo: I like him in both toons, although to quote something written elsewhere, he tends to be a bit of a "glutton for punishment" in the NT and he seem to enjoy getting whacked at times. But in the OT, he may not have been as outgoing, but he was more assertive and less willing to take crap from people (e.g. Leatherhead meets the Rat King- when he knocked over leonardo in a split-second and smashed Donatello's catapult with one karate chop). About what sage ninja said on how Michaelangelo constantly needed saving in the OT- on the contrary, michalangelo proved well at taking care of himself (like when he broke out of his metal chains in "Michaelangelo's Birthday" with his own brute strength; he did the same thing in the NT in "I, Monster"), and there were several times in which it was the other way around in the OT: Michaelangelo had to save the others himself (exs: "Michaelangelo's Birthday" where he teamed up with Splinter after the others had been sprayed with anti-mutagen, "What's Michaelangelo Good For?" where he outsmarted Dr. Lesseau's traps to get to his brothers, "Enter the Rats" where he broke into Shredder's place to stop the Mouser robots before they devoured the others who were outside with April and Splinter)

Just as long as all their characters remain righteous and honorable, which they always do, I have no problem with them. Overall, I thoroughly enjoy both portrayals of all the turtles.

[Lady Venus]

This is mine

Old Toons

Leo

Don

Raph

Mikey

New Toons

Leo

Don

Mikey

Raph

NT:NM *Don't kill me ok.*

Leo

Venus

Don

Raph

Mikey

[Zealwing]

Ralph isn't a turtle :| he is a mouse that rides around a toy motorcycle.
ok just fixed it now !! lol :evilgrin:

[LeoNerdo]

mike's definitely always been my favorite. i think its because he was the funny one on the old cartoon. anyways after that it's Raph, Leo and Don but Leo and Don are pretty much equal. i think two of my friends favorite is Raph

[Rooish]

Hmm, interesting way of putting it. I will try to rank them based on the incarnation, too--and how much I honestly like each character.

Old Toon:
Mike
Don
Raph
Leo

Old Mirage:
Raph
Don
Mike
Leo

Movies:
Mike
Leo
Don
Raph

Image:
Mike
Leo
Raph
Don

New Toon:
Raph
Leo
Mike
Don

New Mirage:
Mike
Leo
Don
Raph

So, if I were to use some sort of point system for all the TMNT versions, my overall order would be: Mike, then Raph/Leo tied, then Don. Which is about right. Except I still love Don.

[Kendamu]

I'm kind of like Kevin Munroe. My favorite changes all the time nowadays. Usually it depends on what kind of mood I'm in or who's story I'm enjoying the most in the comics at the moment.

[Rooish]

Heh, Kevin's lying though; he likes Raph best. Don't you too? ;)

[Requiem-For-Lutz]

My favorite depends on the incarnation of the series in question as well. Goes like this:

Mirage comic: Raphael
1987 cartoon: Donatello
Movies: Raphael
2003 cartoon: Leonardo
Video games: Donatello
Archie comic: Eh... hard to choose. They're all equally cool here.
Overall: Donatello.

Aw I just realized poor Mikey got playa hated on my list. I still love the crazy dude just the same.

[Kendamu]

Heh, Kevin's lying though; he likes Raph best. Don't you too? ;)
I generally pick Raphael by default but I'm a lot more interested in the other Turtles than I used to be.

[Rooish]

Cool to know. Sorry, I was just joking.

[Spider]

Does Slash count?

[Sage Ninja]

Responding to sage ninja's respond. Very insightful. I too have favorite Turtles depending on the medium except for Raph, he's always been able to catch my eye out of the rest of them in all mediums.

I agree, I like new toon Leo better than the classic toon. I also liked him in the first movie, but he seemed off in the other two.

I hated Leonardo in the live action movies. His voice annoyed me and I felt he was way to passive and didn't exibit his leadership skills as nicely as i thought he should have. Plus he was a fruit. I hated how he couldn't hold his own ground in a verbal confrontation with Raphael. I was wicked unimpressed with him.

Donnie I have always liked in all the mediums, but I prefer him in the new toon as well.

I said I liked Donatello in both animated versions. Him and Michaelangelo.

Mikey now, I only like him in the movies. Both toons I found him insanely annoying. But he was just absolutely adorable in the movies. All three of them to be exact.

Wow :o I have to say that you saying this suprices me quite a bit. Based on on other posts I've seen you make (particularly in the Splinter thread) I thought you liked Mikey :-? . Oh well I might have confused you with some one else on in that thread. :ohwell:

However I get where you are coming from with the whole Michaelangelo is annoying thing. Because he can be. I sometimes get extremely disgusted on how the writters make Mikey act and behave in the New toon at times. There is more to his character than just being a hyper-active clown type. In the old toon I don't find him quite as annoying, the only thing I found annoying about his personality is his obsession with pizza! holy moly, one would think pizza was crack to him the way he obesses over it all the time.

But your comment on not understanding Raphael's attitude in the first three seasons of 2k3 toon. I wonder if it's the fans who share his similar anger issues that seems to tolerate him more. Could that be the case? I'm more of the quick to get frustrated and pissed off, and I will throw things when agitated enough, and I honestly can't explain why I get so angry. I just do. And I see Raph's frustrations in that he can't walk around the world with the humans, but he is torn that he feels obligated that he has to protect them too, and I understand that anger. In that it's better to let it out the keep it in.

That is not it at all. To be honest I can relate with his anger issues cause I have one violent temper when I'm provoked (sometimes i don't even have to be all that provoked :( ). I can't put my finger on why it is exactly that turns me off to Raph and his anger issues it just does/did. All I know is that when he strated to settle down and become more of a team player and more mature in the New toon I strated to like him.

[Sage Ninja]

One thing I don't like is when it's inserted in the dialog that him making a joke is a surprise. I never get surprised by it; Leonardo is serious, but he's by no means stuck-up or humor-less; there have been several occassions in the OT where he made jokes or made sarcastic remarks in battle, and he still does in the NT (e.g. Turtles in Space Part 2: "You guys look tired, have a 'seat'"), true, he doesn't as often in the NT, but neither do the others.

I agree. I don't like when the characters act so damn supriced when Leonardo loosens up and cracks a joke or does something silly or fun. Its like WTH, serious people can realax too. I can relate to Leonardo in this instance because i'm a pretty quite and serious person for the most part, but when i'm in the right enviroment I like to cut loose and be more out going.
*Donatello: in OT did have a more natural sense of humor, though he was a bit condescending at times. He was charming and had a cute voice in both toons. He may have been a bit more out-spoken in OT, but in either universe, while he does generally have a calm disposition, he still doesn't take crap from anyone. Personally, I don't find Donatello (OT and NT) as quiet as some people seem to think he is, he's generally easy-going, but he's very assertive in a serious situation.

I agree I didn't mean to apply that NT Don isn't a badass when he wants to be. And he can to be condesending to his brothers at times I think it is funny, although I find OT Donatello to have been much more developed and explored as a character in the old toon. But over-all he was pretty good.

*Raphael: I did like his humorous and observant portrayal in the OT. I believed him when he said in the OT "Nothing beats cutting wit" (A Thing About Rats). And he does have a lot of wit/street-smarts in both toons, he's not dumb or stupid. I can relate to his anger issues in the NT, I find him to be very rational and reasonable (especially in "City at War" arc, when he described getting involved in the gangster war as "throwing more fuel on the fire"). Although I too don't enjoy his constant whacking of Michaelangelo, sometimes he has good reason, but he tends to overdo it sometimes.

I like OT Raphael because he is more relaxed as a character in that universe and OMG funny. Although even in the old toon Raphael was a little mean toward Michaelangelo which miffed me. He never missed an opertunity to imply that he was stupid in some way or another which i thought was wrong. Other than that I loved him and his slick ways. I wish they had developed him more in the old toon. As for the NT, watching him just makes me feel agitated sometimes and their are a few instances where he goes off on these tangents and I just long for one of the characters to tell to STFU. But under all that bluster I think he really is a caring and sweet guy and I'm a sucker for that. My favorite Raph moment in the whole new toon was his interactions with that blind old lady :) . Man Raph was such a sweet heart in that episode.

*Michaelangelo: I like him in both toons, although to quote something written elsewhere, he tends to be a bit of a "glutton for punishment" in the NT and he seem to enjoy getting whacked at times.

That was me that made that remark. I think poor Mikey gets off on getting smacked :sick:

About what sage ninja said on how Michaelangelo constantly needed saving in the OT- on the contrary, michalangelo proved well at taking care of himself (like when he broke out of his metal chains in "Michaelangelo's Birthday" with his own brute strength; he did the same thing in the NT in "I, Monster"), and there were several times in which it was the other way around in the OT: Michaelangelo had to save the others himself (exs: "Michaelangelo's Birthday" where he teamed up with Splinter after the others had been sprayed with anti-mutagen, "What's Michaelangelo Good For?" where he outsmarted Dr. Lesseau's traps to get to his brothers, "Enter the Rats" where he broke into Shredder's place to stop the Mouser robots before they devoured the others who were outside with April and Splinter)

you make some good points about OT Michaelangelo being able to take care of himself and not being a damsel in distress. Because they are true. Its just that as seasons went on it seemed like he was unable to get himself out of trouble on his own. In his birthday episode he isn't able to fend off Rocksteady and Bebop and Shredder and is easliy captured. Any other turtle i think would have put up a fight. And in the episode where he meets Mondo Geko he is easlily beat up and subdued by petty street thugs. And it seemed that later on when compared to his brothers he seemd like a push over when it came to fighting, when in the earlier part of the series he seemed about even with all over them. All the instances you mentioned where times where eighther he was about to die or his brothers, so it was like the only time he was abvle to be really kick ass was when it was an extreme sitution, the others seemed able to defend themselves no mater the situation.

But in the OT, he may not have been as outgoing, but he was more assertive and less willing to take crap from people (e.g. Leatherhead meets the Rat King- when he knocked over leonardo in a split-second and smashed Donatello's catapult with one karate chop).

That is interesting that you say that OT Mike didn't take crap from people as much as NT Mike does. I do notice that OT Mike seems to get angry and flip out every once in while when he is pushed to far in a domestic setting. You hardly ever see NT Mike react in that way in similar situtions. Especially since I've always felt that of the two NT Mike was less of a door mat because he actily annoys his brothers and OT Mike just glared at his brothers when they pissed him off. But they are both kinda of submissive and puc=sh overs i think.

[Rooish]

Yeah, Warhorse, you had me thrown too. You seemed fond of Mikey.

And Sage Ninja, I agree with you about Leo in the movies.

[Warhorse]

How do I put this. I like Mikey in the toons. But he is also my least liked Turtle in the toons too, because I just find him annoying and I really cant seem to relate to him or something. In the movies though, I love him to death.

But no matter how annoying he gets in the toons, I think it's ridiculous for Splinter to constantly smack him upside the head with his walking stick. Sporadically, it can be funny, but after a while, the constant smacking is even more annoying.

[Rooish]

Fair enough. When I think about him honestly, he's not my favourite in the new 'toon.

[Masked Ninja]

100% agreement on Movie Leo.

"And you act like a jerk sometimes, you know that?"

Real cutting, Leo. He's writhing on the floor right now. :roll:

I really like what they did with Leo in season 4 of the new 'toon - take the boring leadertype and pick his mind a little. Fans of the other Turtles got a bit peeved because Leo got even more focus, but I thought it was a good thing to try.

They attempted the same kinda thing with Mikey in individual epsiodes, but it never seemed to stick. Then again, I could see it being a little in character for him to get taught harsh lessons but then forget about them until crunch time. Mikey likes being laid back, and nothing's really going to put him off his normal attitude (unless it's insanely harsh, like what led to SAINW Mikey... who I found equally awesome and sad. Here we have a Mikey who's finally gotten serious, but at what cost? And is he happy? :() With Mikey, I like him being rather ADHD on the surface, but suddenly he comes out fighting or contributes something really insightful (like in Samurai Tourist). My sister is kinda like this: geeky/weird and a little blond on the surface, but she notices things and can wow you by saying the most unexpectedly profound things.

I suppose it's like Leo's sense of humor, in reverse. Though I do think that he cracks plenty of jokes... and not only ones that suck, either. He's just not in humor mode all the time like Mikey or even Raph.

I still can't pick a favorite - it used to be Leo, but it tends to shift around. My personality is mainly Leo/Don, with a bit of Mikey in there somewhere. Recently I've been drawing lots of Donatello in the margins of my notes and such, so maybe he's my current favorite. *shrug* I don't identify with Raph at all, but it does give me warm fuzzies when he accidentally lets a little bit of that inner teddy bear show. :trazz:

[Rooish]

Real cutting, Leo. He's writhing on the floor right now. :roll:

LOL, my friend. :lol: "Listen, Raph. What I said before... you know, about not needing ya." Heh, pussy.

[triplexxx]

Personally, I liked Leonardo's portrayal in the movies. He may not have been as assertive, but he still had that compassionate, caring side to him (when Raphael woke up after being beaten up, one of my favorite scenes in the first movie), and that's what I like most about him.
As for the season 4 thing, while I did find it interesting for a while, they certainly brought that storyline way too far. I mean, what was it Leonardo spent months making a big deal about anyway?
A battle which he and his family WON, that's what.
True, it was only won by sheer luck and only because the Utroms bailed them out at the last minute, but still, the turtles and Splinter got what they wanted: Shredder put out of their misery forever. So what was there to complain about? Truth is, Leonardo spent all that time making a big deal over practically nothing at all; I honestly don't see what's so appealing about that. The problem was, Leonardo's angst had no rational motivation.
With Michaelangelo in SAINW, he had three good reasons to be miserable: a brother had disappeared for 30 years; his father had sacraficed his life for him and his brothers; and the world was in complete turmoil.

[Aignatius]

After thinking about this for a bit, it comes across that Leo is taking on a really tough position. He has to lead a clan that is actually very difficult to manage. I'm thinking that Leo is trying really hard to find a good balance between being a strong, decisive leader and being diplomatic. Plus, when his brothers express resentment of him, it seems to hurt him. He really cares what they think of him.
And it looks like he has had to struggle with his own self-importance as a kid in order to deal effectively with the hard knocks of life, and leave behind his childhood naivete on how the world is supposed to be. How many 15-18 (or thereabouts) year olds can truly handle the responsibilities and the challenges he's taking on?
At the same time, Leo seems to want to fit in with his brothers. If he's too legalistic, he will alienate them. If he's too much of a softie, they won't take him seriously enough. I'm just wondering how much of his leadership skills are natural talent and how much of it is learned from the school of hard knocks... okay, I'm rambling, time for a cup of tea. :embarass:

[triplexxx]

Please delete this

[Rooish]

You guys are right, and you've helped me appreciate Leo more. Let me clarify: I liked him in the movies; I liked his kindness and gentleness. It just wasn't very Leo to me. As in, it isn't how I see him. I really like him in the new Mirage comics; he has eased up, and he still tries to be the best he can be and he still leads because he's earned their respect (he doesn't lead by being bossy), but he's kind and accepting of his bros.

[Sage Ninja]

100% agreement on Movie Leo.

"And you act like a jerk sometimes, you know that?"

Real cutting, Leo. He's writhing on the floor right now. :roll:

I really like what they did with Leo in season 4 of the new 'toon - take the boring leadertype and pick his mind a little. Fans of the other Turtles got a bit peeved because Leo got even more focus, but I thought it was a good thing to try.

I love, love, love me some Leonardo in the new toon. And I like how they shook him up in season four. Other people may have been irritated about it but I thought it was cool and well executed. Honestly Leonardo in the New toon is the best portrayal of him that i've seen so far. Haters die!! :evilgrin:

and i'm sorry, I know that Leonardo in the movies was portayed as laid back and compassionate but I still was unimpressed with him. Not to say he didn't have cute mannerisms but he was just to fruity and geeky for me to take seriously. And the whole bath tub scene where Leonardo reacts to Raph getting up almost made me role my eyes. I was with Raphael "get a grip will ya!" :roll:

They attempted the same kinda thing with Mikey in individual epsiodes, but it never seemed to stick. Then again, I could see it being a little in character for him to get taught harsh lessons but then forget about them until crunch time.

To be honest I haven't seen to much evidence of this except in Grudge Match most episodes show casing Mikey are ones where he is being himself and enjoying super hereos. I kind of like and dislike the fact that he gets taught harsh lessons and then forgets them till crunch time. I like how it gives him reason to stop being blase about every thing and bang out the super ninja skills, but at the same time I get annoyed that the writters can't allow him to slowly progress away from his slcker ways. They allowed Raph to move away from his temper issues and mature why not Mikey?


Mikey likes being laid back, and nothing's really going to put him off his normal attitude (unless it's insanely harsh, like what led to SAINW Mikey... who I found equally awesome and sad. Here we have a Mikey who's finally gotten serious, but at what cost? And is he happy? :() With Mikey, I like him being rather ADHD on the surface, but suddenly he comes out fighting or contributes something really insightful (like in Samurai Tourist). My sister is kinda like this: geeky/weird and a little blond on the surface, but she notices things and can wow you by saying the most unexpectedly profound things.

I like Mikey ADHD too, I just wish they can let him come out with the profound stuff and super intelligent stuff a bit more often and stop making him go embarrssing things. And you are right, as cool as SAINW Mikey was, I wouldn't want him to be as unhappy as that.


How do I put this. I like Mikey in the toons. But he is also my least liked Turtle in the toons too, because I just find him annoying and I really cant seem to relate to him or something. In the movies though, I love him to death.

But no matter how annoying he gets in the toons, I think it's ridiculous for Splinter to constantly smack him upside the head with his walking stick. Sporadically, it can be funny, but after a while, the constant smacking is even more annoying.

ok, it just seemed like you where contidicting your self thats all. And I agree about the cannings.

Fair enough. When I think about him honestly, he's not my favourite in the new 'toon.

you know i've been noticeing alot of people with the same opinion as this. :| New toon Michaelangelo personality doesn't seem to be a favorite among people. Weird. :ohwell:

[Spawn Guy]

As for the season 4 thing, while I did find it interesting for a while, they certainly brought that storyline way too far. I mean, what was it Leonardo spent months making a big deal about anyway?
A battle which he and his family WON, that's what.
True, it was only won by sheer luck and only because the Utroms bailed them out at the last minute, but still, the turtles and Splinter got what they wanted: Shredder put out of their misery forever. So what was there to complain about? Truth is, Leonardo spent all that time making a big deal over practically nothing at all; I honestly don't see what's so appealing about that. The problem was, Leonardo's angst had no rational motivation.


Angst needs to be rational now? That was the point, he was making a big deal over nothing. The entire Ancient One episode was about him admitting that. He thought he failed his family, that's enough reason for him to feel bad, and sice he didn't exactly sit down and talk to anyone about, it it just got worse. We know it's stupid, the point is he dosen't.

[triplexxx]

You're right Spawn Guy. However, I still have a question:
If "angst" is not supposed to have rational motivation and is supposed to be just flat-out stupid, why do I get the sense that a lot of turtle fans here enjoy watching angst in the cartoon; I mean how can people enjoy a show they believe to be mature and yet contains such an immature factor like angst?

[tOkKa]

-->> http://www.terrible2z.com/coleco-wh0rehouse/sewer/venus-prof.gif

:D













..kiddin' kiddin' .. oi !!



:tcouch:

[Spawn Guy]

I like angst to the extent that a charecter matures once they get over it, as with Leo once he realises he did the best he could. He just grew up and resolved to get on with things.

And not all angst is stupid. Stupid is kind of strong, like "Hate" to discribe dislike. Take Spider-Man for example; he's got a reason to feel all sad and angry and dump on himself, but he can't save everyone and won't no matter how hard he tries. Leo was in the same boat. In this case, I meant it's stupid Leo let it grow into such a big thing that he turned into a single minded boarder line phycotic who'd fight at the drop of a hat and make Raph look tame by comparision. And again I'm exagerating.

I prefre angst when I know it's going to go somewhere. I've read enough fanfiction where the author thinks the TMNT should be so gritty they would'nt be able to get up in the morning in real life. Hell, I wrote a fic about Don feeling all angsty after the outbreak mutation, but it ended with him just letting go and accepting he was cured.

http://www.terrible2z.com/coleco-wh0rehouse/sewer/venus-prof.gif


Hellllllllooooooo nurse!

[tOkKa]

-->> :tlol:

[Spawn Guy]

What?

That's hot. I'd go for it.

[Sage Ninja]

Personally, I liked Leonardo's portrayal in the movies. He may not have been as assertive, but he still had that compassionate, caring side to him (when Raphael woke up after being beaten up, one of my favorite scenes in the first movie), and that's what I like most about him.

you make a few good points about Movie Leonardo. If any thing else I liked his gentle dispostion and compassion. It was very obvious that he cared about his family, I just wished they had showed a little bit more of that in the movie than what they did. And I understand that there is only so much you can fit into a two hour movie as far as character portrayal goes (and the first movie seemed to spot light Raphael character wise) but I just felt they made him too passive. You know if i was to be honest with my self I think I just really didn't like the movie's choice of voice for Leonardo. It just sounded to geeky and...well I just didn't care for its "going through puberty" because it lacked that firm authoritve quality.

After thinking about this for a bit, it comes across that Leo is taking on a really tough position. He has to lead a clan that is actually very difficult to manage. I'm thinking that Leo is trying really hard to find a good balance between being a strong, decisive leader and being diplomatic. Plus, when his brothers express resentment of him, it seems to hurt him. He really cares what they think of him.
And it looks like he has had to struggle with his own self-importance as a kid in order to deal effectively with the hard knocks of life, and leave behind his childhood naivete on how the world is supposed to be. How many 15-18 (or thereabouts) year olds can truly handle the responsibilities and the challenges he's taking on?
At the same time, Leo seems to want to fit in with his brothers. If he's too legalistic, he will alienate them. If he's too much of a softie, they won't take him seriously enough. I'm just wondering how much of his leadership skills are natural talent and how much of it is learned from the school of hard knocks... okay, I'm rambling, time for a cup of tea.

You are absolutely right about this Aignatius, Leonardo's cross to bear is that he is a warrior that takes on the role of big brother, leader, and peer. It must be pretty hard to juggle all those aspects of his life with one of them causing some conflict. In the New series I think Leo handles this very well while still staying in a good postion with his brothers that lets him be a peer. In the old toon Leonardo seemed to have much harder time balancing these aspects of his life. he was the leader and the other turtles seemed to resent his authority every once in a while, and sarcastically refered to him as "fearless leader" on a regular basis. He was obviously the one that Splinter left in charge and counted on when ever he was away (doing rat stuff supposedly) which ment he had to be a hardass every once in a while, and it seemed like when ever he tried to settle in and just be a teenager with the other guys the other turtles couldn't help but rag on him about it.

If there was anything that made old toon Leonardo an indepth character it was probably his struggle to be a competent leader and maintain his edge while trying not to be to much a goody-two-shoes...gee, did use that saying correctly? :|

How do I put this. I like Mikey in the toons. But he is also my least liked Turtle in the toons too, because I just find him annoying and I really cant seem to relate to him or something. In the movies though, I love him to death.

I have to ask every one this but, people who say they like Movie Mikey more because he isn't as annoying as Cartoon Mikey, do you think it could be because with movie Mikey you only get exposure to his character for only about two hours? Unlike cartoon Mikey where you get more exposure to his character over the course of several episdoes that expand his character and you see more of his habits and personality and quirks. In other words if you had as much exposure to Movie Mikey's type of portrayal as you did cartoon Mikey (like say in a series), would you find his persoanlity and habits annoying and unlikable too, or do you think you would still like him?

[Warhorse]

I have to ask every one this but, people who say they like Movie Mikey more because he isn't as annoying as Cartoon Mikey, do you think it could be because with movie Mikey you only get exposure to his character for only about two hours? Unlike cartoon Mikey where you get more exposure to his character over the course of several episdoes that expand his character and you see more of his habits and personality and quirks. In other words if you had as much exposure to Movie Mikey's type of portrayal as you did cartoon Mikey (like say in a series), would you find his persoanlity and habits annoying and unlikable too, or do you think you would still like him?

When I think about it, I'm wondering if in the movie, Mikey has these big brown puppy dog eyes that make it impossible to not like him. He also projects that he likes life, and doesn't want to think about bad stuff. And he pulled pranks on his brothers, but he did it in a way in the movies that came off clever.

In the toon, he has his moments, like in the Jurassic Park episode, he had me in stitches. But most of the time, he seems to be like the filler Turtle in between fights. And his filler is to be the out of this world annoying brother. And I made that assumption after about three episodes of the new toon, and that equals about the same as just one of TMNT movies. It's nothing personal, it's just his antics has made him my least favorite Turtle in the cartoons. In the movies, his nice guy, willing to get you out of funk and make you laugh persona has made him my second favorite character. I just hope they will be able to pull that across in the forth movie. The burp doesn't bother me. As long as he doesn't start to belch the Star Spangled Banner!

[NightwatchersOnlygirl]

My fave Is Raphael

[Rooish]

We know. :)

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

My favorite would be Raphael as well. Used to be Michelangelo but I think as the turtle that has conflicts between his anger and his loyalty Raphael is the most interesting.

[triplexxx]

After thinking about this for a bit, it comes across that Leo is taking on a really tough position. He has to lead a clan that is actually very difficult to manage. I'm thinking that Leo is trying really hard to find a good balance between being a strong, decisive leader and being diplomatic. Plus, when his brothers express resentment of him, it seems to hurt him. He really cares what they think of him.
And it looks like he has had to struggle with his own self-importance as a kid in order to deal effectively with the hard knocks of life, and leave behind his childhood naivete on how the world is supposed to be. How many 15-18 (or thereabouts) year olds can truly handle the responsibilities and the challenges he's taking on?
At the same time, Leo seems to want to fit in with his brothers. If he's too legalistic, he will alienate them. If he's too much of a softie, they won't take him seriously enough. I'm just wondering how much of his leadership skills are natural talent and how much of it is learned from the school of hard knocks... okay, I'm rambling, time for a cup of tea.
You are absolutely right about this Aignatius, Leonardo's cross to bear is that he is a warrior that takes on the role of big brother, leader, and peer. It must be pretty hard to juggle all those aspects of his life with one of them causing some conflict. In the New series I think Leo handles this very well while still staying in a good postion with his brothers that lets him be a peer. In the old toon Leonardo seemed to have much harder time balancing these aspects of his life. he was the leader and the other turtles seemed to resent his authority every once in a while, and sarcastically refered to him as "fearless leader" on a regular basis. He was obviously the one that Splinter left in charge and counted on when ever he was away (doing rat stuff supposedly) which ment he had to be a hardass every once in a while, and it seemed like when ever he tried to settle in and just be a teenager with the other guys the other turtles couldn't help but rag on him about it.
If there was anything that made old toon Leonardo an indepth character it was probably his struggle to be a competent leader and maintain his edge while trying not to be to much a goody-two-shoes...gee, did use that saying correctly? :|
It's no doubt at all that Leonardo's position on the team is a tough one. But the fact is, just being a TMNT, period, is tough.
It is true that the team is difficult for him to manage, but I think this is because his own individual responsibilities for the team sometimes clash with those of his brothers. And yes, they all have certain individual responsibilities to contribute to the team:

Leonardo=strategy/cunning
Donatello=cutting-edge intellect
Raphael=brute force with no fear
Michaealngelo=spiritual enlightenment

The way I see it, good leadership/strategy is just one of many things it takes to create a team and keep it functioning; everything listed here is a vital part of what makes up a team and makes a team successful.

Sometimes, these responsibilities clash and contradict one another:
*Michaelangelo has to keep the others spirits up while they insist on remaining stiff and serious
*Raphael has to be willing to strike without fear while the others know that sometimes, being afraid helps you know your limitations and keeps you from getting involved in things you shouldn't
*Donatello has to use scientific rationale and logic while the others sometimes believe you need to trust instinct more than science
*Leonardo has to be willing to call the shots for himself and for his brothers while they sometimes believe it is better if they each call their own shots)

It's really a challenge for all of them to manage making their own contributions to the team and to make the others take them seriously. They all have to be willing to negotiate with each other; and they all have to know when they need to stand above the others, and when they need to submit to the others. I say Leonardo fits in with his brothers only as much as any one of the others do.

[Spitfire]

Not that there hasn't been a million topics about this. And not that anyone doesn't know but my favorite is Don.

Yes they all bring something to the team but Don is one of the TMNT where you take him away and their screwed.

You take away Mikey the TMNT can still function, take away Raph they can too. Raph and Mikey don't really DO anything. Their extra fighters but Leo leads and Don comes up with plans and figures everything out. Mikey makes jokes and Raph gets mad and storms off.

If you take out Leo you have no leadership and while Don is smart he's no leader. You take out Don the turtles wouldn't know what to do half the time. And they would have been killed many times. All the tech stuff they could have never figured out without Don. So many places they would have never broken into or people they would have never saved.

I just liked Don because he was the quite one who was intelligent but could still put up a fight. He would rather fight with his inventions but if he had to he could take you down with his bo. He also hardly ever loses his temper and keeps his cool. Even when he is mad he doesn't act like the other TMNT.

Mikey gets like a baby and throws hissy fits, Leo*We all saw what he's like in the 2K3 series* Leo also gets all emo, and Raph gets pissed and breaks stuff. Don is also the only turtle who listens to Splinter. The others in their own ways have all disobeyed Splinter but Don always listens.

[triplexxx]

Remember when Leonardo said in Grudge Match: "If one of us goes down, we all go down."

*Leonardo goes down=no leadership, lack of strategy for the others, they lose direction in battle, which would enable the enemy to take them down.
*Donatello goes down=the others couldn't deal with the technological advances of their enemies, and there would also be a lack of strategy, and the enemy could take them down. Not to mention they wouldn't have many of the comforts of home that he contributed.
*Raphael goes down=without his strength, vigilance, passion and willingness to jump in front of the bullet (metaphorically speaking) the enemy would overpower the others while their backs are turned.
*Michaelangelo goes down=without his spiritual enlightenment, the others' spirits would fall apart, and either it'll hurt their skills and enable the enemy to take them down, or they may end up coming close to killing each other.

The fact is: The turtles couldn't function without any one of them. None of the turtles are replacable or expendable. They'd be screwed if any one of them was gone.

[Unicron the Agitator]

I have grown to like all the turtles in some facet. It's funny, because in each version (film, comic, cartoon) I have a favorite. Raphael is my favorite from the original cartoon because I loved his sarcastic quips. Donatello was my favorite turtle from the first movie beacsue he was voiced by Cory Feldman and had some of the film's funniest lines. In the 2K3 series as well as the Mirage comic, Leonardo is my favorte because he takes on the "big brother" role which really resonates with who I am. But if I have to pick one, it'd be Leo.

[SpiderHulkThing]

from the old toons, my favorite was mikey for a long time. then it became raph.


from the new toons (not counting fast forward cause i haven't kept up with it), i'd have to say still raph.

[Hitsuji]

I don't know... :ohwell:

When I was little Leo was the whole world to me (I was reeeeeally obsessed with him... -__-U), but now... I love them all! I can't choose, but... maybe Leo would be my favourite, but.... noooooo, I can't choooooose....!!! Them four are SO special!!

I agree with triplexxx!

[theredgnome]

Leo may be the leader, but Raph is the star.

[Jester]

*scratches head*
Mikey's spiritually enlightened?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

My favourite of the TMNT was/is Leonardo.

[Warhorse]

Leo may be the leader, but Raph is the star.

I have to agree with you here. That's why he sticks out in the movies so much! :D

[theredgnome]

Thank you, Warhorse. I'm glad others can see it. The movies focus on Raphael's relationships with Splinter, April, Casey, Keno, and Yoshi. Also, Raph was the first turtle to have an entire comic book volume devoted solely to him. Raphael's character is the most complex and developed of the turtles.

[Aignatius]

Hm. I always thought Don was more spiritually enlightened.
OTOH, if anyone has read Rick McCollum's TMNT story The Ring, it would seem Don was the shamanic one, but it turns out Leo is the one who finishes the spiritual journey.
Don seems to like stuff the others think is weird, it's one of the things I like about that character. He's different!

[Sage Ninja]

And he pulled pranks on his brothers, but he did it in a way in the movies that came off clever.

yeah maybe, but if you where subject to this brand of pranks in larger doses, would you still find them clever and funny or would you eventually find his antics annoying. I notice that in the movie his brothers take his joking and pranks in stride, and other than a little grunt of aggrevation they don't seem to mind. In the toon when Mikey starts with his antics, the other turtles react with something almost like disgust, or a perplexed "what the hell are you doing" sort of reaction. AndI'm wondering if how the the turtles react to Mikey affects how the viewer reacts to him as well. If it is shown that his brothers react like he is being bothersome than the viewer may think so too. If Mikey's brothers reacted to his pranks in the movie as they do in the New toon, would you also think "God, what the heck is wrong with him" as well?

he has his moments, like in the Jurassic Park episode, he had me in stitches. But most of the time, he seems to be like the filler Turtle in between fights. And his filler is to be the out of this world annoying brother. And I made that assumption after about three episodes of the new toon, and that equals about the same as just one of TMNT movies.

I kind of agree with you on this one. I blame the writters on this one because sometimes I feel that they distance Mikey to much from the other turtles to mAKE HIM THE LIGHT HEARTED TURTLE. You are right I don't like how he is sometimes just filler. Mikey has alot of potentical to be important to the plot given his "out of the box" thinking and personality but the writters genrally just make him the comic relief. And it sucks because i've hints of more to his character than just that. Also I think they could portray his teenager younger bother like qualites in a diffrent way that doesn't make him look so...obnoxious.

In the new movie it appears Mikey will have an obsession for Raphael's alter idenity and keep a scrap book of him and his exploits like if he was a super hero. Would that bother you at all if he does?

[triplexxx]

What I said about Michaelangelo is true. As Sage Ninja just said, he is the "most light-hearted turtle". He doesn't let things so easily annoy him like Raphael. He doesn't make a workaholic out of himself like Donatello. And he doesn't take things too personally and create sometimes useless burdens for himself like Leonardo. Hence, he is the most harmonious and has the most enlightened spirit.
Without him, the other turtles would be eventually swallowed by the darkness of their ninja lifestyle.

[Warhorse]

yeah maybe, but if you where subject to this brand of pranks in larger doses, would you still find them clever and funny or would you eventually find his antics annoying. I notice that in the movie his brothers take his joking and pranks in stride, and other than a little grunt of aggrevation they don't seem to mind. In the toon when Mikey starts with his antics, the other turtles react with something almost like disgust, or a perplexed "what the hell are you doing" sort of reaction. AndI'm wondering if how the the turtles react to Mikey affects how the viewer reacts to him as well. If it is shown that his brothers react like he is being bothersome than the viewer may think so too. If Mikey's brothers reacted to his pranks in the movie as they do in the New toon, would you also think "God, what the heck is wrong with him" as well?



I kind of agree with you on this one. I blame the writters on this one because sometimes I feel that they distance Mikey to much from the other turtles to mAKE HIM THE LIGHT HEARTED TURTLE. You are right I don't like how he is sometimes just filler. Mikey has alot of potentical to be important to the plot given his "out of the box" thinking and personality but the writters genrally just make him the comic relief. And it sucks because i've hints of more to his character than just that. Also I think they could portray his teenager younger bother like qualites in a diffrent way that doesn't make him look so...obnoxious.

In the new movie it appears Mikey will have an obsession for Raphael's alter idenity and keep a scrap book of him and his exploits like if he was a super hero. Would that bother you at all if he does?

People having collages of superheroes and the such don't bother me. And I think it's going to be kind of cute to watch Mikey have this secret admiration for his brother's alter ego.

I am also going to take another stab at this. My first introduction to the Turtles was the first cartoon. I never knew about the cartoon, or the movies being based on comics till about 5 years ago. (I am not a comic book person, so know nothing of that world.)

But I loved watching the Turtles nonetheless. Then the big movie came out, and while I already had Raph as my favorite from the cartoon carrying into this movie, but Mikey's great personality immedietely had him my second favorite (it was usually Donny in the cartoon that ended up my second favorite)

After the years passed, and I found out about the new toon, after watching such a great character, even though Mikey's bit was small in the movie, I realized that the cartoon was a major let down for me in my attitude towards Mikey. I know he can be better written than as he is now in the new toon. Like I said, he has his moments, but there are no where near enough of them. He was great in (I think it was April's Artifact or Time Trevails) and he was also great in the BattleNexus storylines, and I also give kudos to the writers for Mikey to come up with a plan for Leo and Raph in a spaceship when they were trying to save Donny when he was kidnapped. The writers can do a great Mikey once in a while, they should make the rule instead of the exception.

But I can't wait to see Mikey's Cowabunga Carl! I think that's going to be a trip! Wonder if he get's kicked in the groin at a party by some brat kid like you see happen to the Disney Charactures on America's Funniest Home Videos.:D

[Rooish]

Um... Donny or Mikey is the most spiritually enlightened?

I think Leonardo's basic reason for existing is for spiritual enlightenment. That and being an awesome fighter.

What I would say Mikey has is childlike wonder and optimism, and that's why the team needs him so much. Without him they'd all turn into killing machines. Don has serenity and stability and compassion and independence, but I wouldn't call him "spiritually enlightened." Maybe "emotionally mature." I think the team needs his soothing nature and his inventions. But he's a scientist, and I think he's less likely to be "spiritual" than Leo.

[triplexxx]

I believe what you say Rooish. However, I'm just curious: why was it that in "Invasion of the Bodyjacker", Leonardo told Michaelangelo he's best at redirecting chi, aka spiritual energy?

[Rooish]

Hm, that's a good question. I know that the people who make FF are (sort of) in collaberation with Peter Laird, but I nonetheless don't consider FF to convey any sort of "official" information about the TMNT. From what I've heard (I don't watch it as I don't have a TV and haven't bought the DVDs for my computer), FF is kind of crappy anyway. ;)

But anyway, Mikey best at redirecting his chi? In the cartoons, maybe he is. But I think this is sort of a statement meant to appeal to the plethora of Mikey fans. Kids (and I, apparently) love Mikey, and although he goofs off, they like to know that Mikey actually has some sort of talent going for him. So the series makes up vague things like "he's best at redirecting his chi" or "he has the most inate potential," which are hard to quantify or show. My suspicion is that it keeps the kids happy. Because otherwise Mikey wouldn't have any talents like the others do--Leo's leadership, Don's smarts, Raph's strength.

Mikey is my favourite Turtle and I know that he has a lot of creative and playful ways of kicking butt, but I don't consider him the most spiritually enlightened because I haven't seen much evidence of that from Peter Laird; it all seems to me to be a gimmick to please young Mikey fans. I like him for his flaws, I guess.

[Aignatius]

Sure, a lot of the Mirage stories point to Don being spiritual. Then there's other manifestations point to him as being not so spiritual but more, say, existentialist.
And I agree, Leo is also very spiritual. It depends on the writer's POV I suppose on who is more spiritual.

[triplexxx]

I consider it some sort of conflict between Leonardo and Michaelangelo. While Leonardo does have more discipline than Michaelangelo, Michaelangelo has more of a positive mental attitude than Leonardo. Both of these characteristics, I believe, are vital for spiritual growth. I believe its Leonardo's and Michaelangelo's pride and egos that sometimes get the better of them, and it keeps them from attaining the one of these two characteristics they each lack (notice, I didn't say lack "completely"). As for Donatello, even though he's pretty positive, he's not as free-spirited and more grounded than Michaelangelo; I'd say it's more of intellectual enlightenment, rather than spiritual enlightenment. But don't get me wrong, I think splinter made them all pretty spiritually enlightened, how else would they have been able to accomplish everything they did in the Lost Season?

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Raphael will always be my favorite. I guess with everybody they always think of their favorite characters with 3-Dimensional eyes. Mikey, Leo, and Don all have 3-dimensional characteristics...but for me Raph's is the most interesting (Mikey is my close second fave).

I guess I always loved the loner type heroes...hell my 3 favorite characters of all time are Raphael, Rambo, and Ash from Evil Dead. The idea that sometimes you can only count on yourself, just resonates with me....and it's especially with Raph who feels like a man against the world.

All the turtles have there own inner demons...some of them like Mikey hide it better than others. But Raph I think definately has the darkest....the classic beast within himself. Maybe because he hates the possibility of a normal life taken away with no choice, no freedom. And most teenagers major notion is for freedom, whether to go to college, get their own apartment, raise a family of their own, etc. And he knows it and fights it, which to me makes him a classic example of a true hero....not only must there be a fight in the world, but in oneself and Raph definately takes that to heart. It's a dynamic battle and notion....it creates emotional baggage and arc....maybe that's why Raph is used a lot in the movie.

I love Raphael because his journey mimics many action films, which i'm a huge fan of....the imperfect hero.....one's journey from the darkness to the light. Plus he's willing to kick ass and take names, and there's nothing wrong with that lol. And yet as seen many times, especially with Mikey, his heart is there. Especially when a family is in need. And maybe with this path of darkness, there's a knowledge and wisdom he'll have for the future....so he can help his family in need not just physically, but emotionally...simply cause he's been there, down that road a time or two before.

Plus it's easiest for me to see Raphael in violent battles...which i must admit i'm a sucker for lol being a huge fan of horror and action...although Leo truthfully would be too. But Raph...i don't know for me I think of Raph in that league of Rambo, Snake Plissken, Dirty Harry (lol would that make Mikey like Jack Burton in Big Trouble in Little China lol)....or maybe it's just me kidding myself lol. When i try to think of stories to right (mostly horror/action stories) Raph just feels right as the go to guy for them. The spit against authority attitude, the violent yet heroic spirit, and the willingness to take matters to the next bloody level when necessary.

Plus I always loved Raphael and Mikey's relationship...the whole 'two sides of the same coin' notion. The funny, buddy cop like banter (Mikey and Raph for Rush Hour 4 anybody? lol). That's my favorite part of the new toons, and hopefully in the new movie.

Anyway sorry for the length of this lol.

[Rooish]

I see your points; all have some sort of spirituality in his own way. Don did have his moments in the comics (that one where he went nuts and became a shaman, anyone?) and he's always been pretty philosophical. Mikey is enlightened in a way, because he has such a positive outlook, and it takes a lot of work to get that mindset. Either that or he's just cluelessly happy (ignorance is bliss).

raphroehler2003, I agree with you about Raph's and Mikey's relationship. I think I talk about them too much already. I wouldn't get your hopes up for seeing much of their relationship in the new movie, because it won't have time to develop all of the relationships very well. The 2k3 toon, though, shows a very close love-hate relationship between Raph and Mike that is delightful to watch. In my opinion, it seems like a very realistic brotherly bond (although since they have all been stuck together for 15 years in a sewer, I doubt any of the boys would actually get along quite so well as they are shown to).

I agree that Raph has the most developed character in the TMNT universe, but I think he and Don get gyped a bit in the new toon.

[Sage Ninja]

Hm, that's a good question. I know that the people who make FF are (sort of) in collaberation with Peter Laird, but I nonetheless don't consider FF to convey any sort of "official" information about the TMNT. From what I've heard (I don't watch it as I don't have a TV and haven't bought the DVDs for my computer), FF is kind of crappy anyway. ;)

I agree FF is a far cry from what the true TMNT is ment to be represented as. Just about all the characters have been simplified to the point at is painful. Just look at what they did to Splinter! I take anything that is said about any of the charcteers and thier abilties with a grain of salt.

But anyway, Mikey best at redirecting his chi? In the cartoons, maybe he is. But I think this is sort of a statement meant to appeal to the plethora of Mikey fans. Kids (and I, apparently) love Mikey, and although he goofs off, they like to know that Mikey actually has some sort of talent going for him. So the series makes up vague things like "he's best at redirecting his chi" or "he has the most inate potential," which are hard to quantify or show. My suspicion is that it keeps the kids happy. Because otherwise Mikey wouldn't have any talents like the others do--Leo's leadership, Don's smarts, Raph's strength.

I think it is too. The writters seem to like to come up with these little talents or traits that Mikey supposedly has but never capalise on them or explore them. In fact you never see any of these special traits of Mikey's except in text book fan bio's and never see any evidence of them at all in the show. Mikey is the only turtle that doesn't posses a definable niche in the group which could be an interesting character dynamic to play up and make him evolve but they don't. Except to occasianlly mention once or twice through out the series with nothing to back it up.

Mikey is my favourite Turtle and I know that he has a lot of creative and playful ways of kicking butt, but I don't consider him the most spiritually enlightened because I haven't seen much evidence of that from Peter Laird; it all seems to me to be a gimmick to please young Mikey fans

I think thats tottally the case that the writters only say these things to appeal to the younger kiddies instead of actually incorporating what they claim into his character. And I think its because Mikey is considered the "kids audiance" turtle so they leave his character alone with just gimmicky things thown out at random with no back up thining that it will sufice the kiddies (and forgetting that Mikey has fans from the older age group as well) and in turn concentrat on Don, Leo, amnd Raph who have been stero-typed as "the older peoples audiance" turtles and there for give them more nuanced and indepth character traits, that is actually shown and explored through out the series. Its a bit sad really and biased too.

But I guess we have to an extent Peter Laird and Keven Eastman to blame for that. Don't quote me on this but I believe I've heard it said that the two have always had trouble writting for Michaelangelo's character because of how light hearted his character is. Perhaps that wjhy there isn't any concret evidence of his other traits and talents that the other turtles have, which leave the writters to make vague refrences to his abilties. At least that what i have heard so no please kill me for saying it.

[Time Mistress]

A few thoughts on Mike:

1. He's the team optimist and prankser. I think it's evident that IF Mike does have a defined roll on the team it's "morale." Both he and Donny are the team peacemakers, but Mike is the one who is more likely to do something about it imediately whereas Don goes of into his room to invent stuff and waits for it all to blow over. It's once Mike's jokes and "lighten up" antics fail that Don become the more useful peacemaker of the two. But Mike is the most empathic Turtle which explains why he gets along the best with just about everybody - including humans, kids, and animals. He's the best liason to the human world of the four, so maybe that's also another team strength.

2. He's the team innocent. The child. The baby brother. And as a result, he's the one most set up to be "saved" by Splinter or one of his brothers. Unfortunately, it also ends up caling his ninja skills into question when he should be equal with the others.

3. The comics show Mike's evolution better than the other mediums I think. Mike isn't just into comics, he's into most all literature. He writes novels, keeps an journal, etc. Leo always has a plan. Don is the stratigist. But Mike is an instictual and the most creative fighter. Raph relys on instict too (as well as power) but his rage can cause him to fight sloppy.

4. Potential is a word that's used a lot to sum up Mike, especially in terms of fighting. Is he really the most athletic? The most naturally talented? I think there has been some evidence of his agility in the new toon, but it's more implied than stated outright (such as shots where Mike will be walking a tightrope on his hands while the others rely on feet.) The Turtles in Space arc shows that is is the best pickpocket and perhaps the best at the ninja art of concealment of the four. He's good for running distractions. As for weapons talent, I think there is a certain degree of natually athleticism/quick movement required more for the nunchuks than other ninja weapons because it is a "flexible weapon" and Mike has a greater natural adeptness than the others for flexible weapons. But they are all experts in their own unique weapons catagories so you can't say Mike is more skilled than any of his brothers, just that he's the best suited for his weapon as they all are.

5. Another potential aspect of Mike's is speed. He might just be the fastest Turtle on the battlefield. At least one comic (Veitch's The River) stated that Mike has the fastest reflexes of the four (I think), which again ties in with his weapon catagory. Mike seems to be the fastest Turtle in the video games based on the new toon and the Lost Season has his tap into his chi power or whatever during a race. His fighting style in the new toon tends to involve a lot of dodging, and tauting of his opponent being too slow until he is able to get in a few good hits. (Just witness how he beats Raph.) Of course Mike is also overconfident and easily distracted on the battlefield in which case my second point comes into play (i.e. needs rescuing). Either than or those quick reflexes come in handy.

That's my 2 cents for now anyway.

[poobone]

My favorite turtle has always been Leonardo, because he has swords, and growing up, I watched a lot of movies like Conan, Willow, and even the awful Red Sonja, so Leo was cool cuz he had swords. Nowadays I think I'm more of a Donatello fan, just due to his personality.... but then the new cartoon has me gravitating back towards Leo's more complex personality.

But definitely Michelangelo has the most fans around where I'm from, cuz he's funny and likes to party. :roll:

[Sage Ninja]

A few thoughts on Mike:

He's the team optimist and prankser. I think it's evident that IF Mike does have a defined roll on the team it's "morale." Both he and Donny are the team peacemakers, but Mike is the one who is more likely to do something about it imediately whereas Don goes of into his room to invent stuff and waits for it all to blow over. It's once Mike's jokes and "lighten up" antics fail that Don become the more useful peacemaker of the two. But Mike is the most empathic Turtle which explains why he gets along the best with just about everybody - including humans, kids, and animals. He's the best liason to the human world of the four, so maybe that's also another team strength.

yeah, but if his nich is "moral" or "peace maker" its one that is easily, filled in by Donatello, and there for not his alone. In fact (in the new toon at least) the role of over all peace maker and is Dontello's department. It was pretty said so in the New toon in the episode Same as it Never Was that with out Donatello's "voice of reason" the whole team/family fell apart. So as far as "peace maker" goes the more important contributor is Donatello. Which leaves Mikey with out a talent that is his jusdiction alone, unlike Leo, Don, and Raph who have talents that are theres alone.

He's the team innocent. The child. The baby brother. And as a result, he's the one most set up to be "saved" by Splinter or one of his brothers. Unfortunately, it also ends up calling his ninja skills into question when he should be equal with the others.

I like that Michaelangelo has a innocent way about him. It is a great paradox for some one like him to have since he is a warrior that fights and occasinally has to kill and has all these grey areas that play in his life but yet he still maintains an innocent empathitic out look on things. And as for the needing rescued thing. I'm ok with it but when it happens to often and it becomes that he has to be baby sat in battle thats when it becomes annoying. I remember in season four there was a string of episodes back to back where Mikey would get in trouble and Donatello was always saving him. It got a bit annoying.

The comics show Mike's evolution better than the other mediums I think. Mike isn't just into comics, he's into most all literature. He writes novels, keeps an journal, etc. Leo always has a plan. Don is the stratigist. But Mike is an instictual and the most creative fighter. Raph relys on instict too (as well as power) but his rage can cause him to fight sloppy.

I've never really read the comics but every thing you have just mentioned sounds really interesting and...sophisticated :o that almost sounds alien to his character. I wish I could see this Michaelangelo incorporated into the media. i eman don't get me wrong I've always loved Michaelangelo but I feel they have relied on sterotypes for the most part to sell his character.

Another potential aspect of Mike's is speed. He might just be the fastest Turtle on the battlefield. At least one comic (Veitch's The River) stated that Mike has the fastest reflexes of the four (I think), which again ties in with his weapon catagory. Mike seems to be the fastest Turtle in the video games based on the new toon and the Lost Season has his tap into his chi power or whatever during a race. His fighting style in the new toon tends to involve a lot of dodging, and tauting of his opponent being too slow until he is able to get in a few good hits. (Just witness how he beats Raph.) Of course Mike is also overconfident and easily distracted on the battlefield in which case my second point comes into play (i.e. needs rescuing). Either than or those quick reflexes come in handy.

Mikey does appear to be something of an endurance fighter. He must have loads of stanima to be able to wear his oppenents down. But he seems to be a good fighter regardless with out all the dodging and the taunts. I resently watched "meet Casey Jones and I was shocked at how well Michaelangelo was against Raphael (whom I also felt was up there with Leo) and was actually nocking him around and was to genuanly able to beat him in a sparring match with just his own skill. You never see Mikey able to that later on in the series, and it makes me wonder why. He has the skills to beat Raph if he wanted to but rected fearfully and practically ran away from him in the Battle Nexus episodes when they got paired up. After that incindent in the Casey Jones episode any time Mikey comes up against Raphael he is dominated by him (actually he doesn't even try to really fight back any more, you notice that). And I really take Mikey is the fastes turtle of the bunch with a grain of salt, because they all appear very quick and agile to me.[/QUOTE]

Potential is a word that's used a lot to sum up Mike, especially in terms of fighting. Is he really the most athletic? The most naturally talented? I think there has been some evidence of his agility in the new toon, but it's more implied than stated outright (such as shots where Mike will be walking a tightrope on his hands while the others rely on feet.) The Turtles in Space arc shows that is is the best pickpocket and perhaps the best at the ninja art of concealment of the four. He's good for running distractions. As for weapons talent, I think there is a certain degree of natually athleticism/quick movement required more for the nunchuks than other ninja weapons because it is a "flexible weapon" and Mike has a greater natural adeptness than the others for flexible weapons. But they are all experts in their own unique weapons catagories so you can't say Mike is more skilled than any of his brothers, just that he's the best suited for his weapon as they all are.

I think his potentical is more than just his fighting abilites and physical prowess. For the reasons that you have mentioned i think his physical potenticial as a fighter is more or less there even though it is not adressed as strongely as Don's technicall genious or Leo's affinity with ninjitsu. But I think that Mikey's intellectual prowess intution is also hinted at (but not played up as much) potentical is there as well. On a whole Mikey isn't seen as being particulary smart but occasiannly he comes up with whoppers that occasinally shock his brothers. So how smart is Mikey really? Its not so apparant that he is a idiot in the new toon, like he is portrayed in other mediums. He can also be rather perceptive and intutive on occasion as well. You through all Mikey's facets but his mental capibalites. What are your thoughts on that Time Mistress?

[triplexxx]

Which leaves Mikey with out a talent that is his jusdiction alone, unlike Leo, Don, and Raph who have talents that are theres alone.
Just for clarification, it's not literally that their talents are "their's alone"; they're just more dominant than their brothers, there's a difference. Like you said, Michaelangelo is agile, but so are the others. Same for Raphael; he's strong, but so are the others. And Leonardo; he's very skilled and strategic, but the others are very skilled too and can strategize too when situations call for it, especially Donatello. And Donatello; well he may stand alone in the area of science smart, but there's two types of smarts, science smart and street smart, in the science smarts he's dominant, but not really in street smarts.

[Masked Ninja]

My personal version of Michelangelo (aka, what I'd write in my own TMNT story... aka my favorite characteristics mashed together) would be like this:

(warning: long personality overanalysis ahead! my brain got bored and my fingers just kept typing :P)


Mike's the one who keeps the others from getting too serious, but not solely in a comic relief kind of way. Being so readily social, he's just naturally able to get everyone (even Leo) to join in whatever fun he's cooking up without being overbearing or annoying about it. That said, he does enjoy bad/lame jokes and tells them partially because he thinks they're funny and partially because the "uuuugh" reactions from his bros cracks him up as much as the jokes. This does earn him the occasional headwhap from Raph, but he knows it's not administered out of pure annoyance, so he just savors the attention, maybe reciprocating with some playful jabs of his own. He's rarely happier than when having a good time with his family, or even friends of the family - just a social creature by nature. Of course, he's perfectly capable of being serious when the situation needs it, and he can usually tell when those times are.

Though light-hearted overall, Mikey isn't immune to depression, which in his case usually comes from their separation from the human world. He'd love nothing more than to be able to walk the city streets and socialize with all the people he came into contact with, but he can't. He also probably feels the strongest guilt for the people he and his brothers kill, self defense or not, and occasionally this will hit home. He's also sensitive to negative comments from his brothers, whose opinions he values very highly. Whatever's making Mike feel down, he'll usually go hide himself somewhere to be sad about it, worrying that his brothers may think differently of him if they ever saw him this way... perhaps then his peacemaking skills wouldn't be as effective? Extreme cases see Mikey sneaking to Splinter's side for emotional support, but he tries to keep this rare. His brothers are pretty perceptive, however, and can tell when he's upset... especially when he mysteriously disappears for several hours.

Fights in general are kind of a love/hate thing for Mikey. He hates having to kill people, but at the same time he loves being outside in the open air. He also loves feeling part of the team in whatever missions they have to accomplish. And the guilt doesn't even come until after the battle - during, it's almost a game for him as he outmaneuvers the enemy with as much style as he can afford.

Just like sadness, Mikey shows outward anger sparingly. When he does get visibly angry, it's rather scary because you know there's enough built up that he can't conceal it any more. In family situations Mike's anger is the scary silent type... in terms of enemies (say, a ninja jumps out of nowhere and kills Don) he's more liable to go into a Raph-like rage, but it would take a severe hurt to do that, probably related to an injury to his family (as evidenced by the example), to which he's fiercely loyal.

While he enjoys training enough, after a while Mikey gets bored with it and goes off to do something fun. These will include video games, reading (comic books or whatever books they've collected over the years... they're all great to lose himself in), or even art. It's one of those far-flung dreams of his to one day draw comic books, or even write a best-selling novel. He's got natural talent in the martial arts, and if he had the drive or focus to surpass Leonardo he would most likely be able to do it... but he doesn't place much importance on being the "best," perferring to have fun with life. And while he's never even thought about it, his rising to the position of top fighter would probably change his relationship with Leonardo to be pretty uncomfortable, and he would regret it once he got there.

Mikey gets along best with Raph, who he finds to be more fun to hang around with than Leo or Don, who are less social and more focused on their own interests. Videogame tournaments and practical jokes are common, as well as the type of silliness Leo or Don may not allow themselves to participate in. Raph sometimes feels like Mikey's the one who understands him the most, and instinctively gravitates to him when having emotional issues (often when he sneaks back into the lair after storming topside for whatever reason)

As for Leo, Mikey looks up to him as a big brother and shining example. Of course he believes Leo could stand to lighten up a lot, but he respects him for what he does for the family. He's also able to bring out a little bit of Leo's fun side, which he enjoys doing. Leo appreciates Mike for his peacemaker personality, and doesn't underestimate his skill like Don or Raph might on occasion - good especially for impromptu battle plans. He sees Mikey's potential and wishes he'd work harder to achieve it, but if Mikey ever surpassed him he honestly wouldn't know how to react.

Mikey feels like he knows Don the least, mainly because Don likes to spend a lot of time by himself and this doesn't compute to Mike's social-butterfly brain. They can have fun together easily enough, but sometimes Mikey feels like he just doesn't know Don well enough, like they think on totally different planes. Don, on the other hand, loves spending time with Mikey... though he does get annoyed whenever his "alone time" is disrupted. He also wishes Mikey would apply himself to something a little bit more, not seeing as much value in his younger brother's sketches and writings as Mikey himself does. (could be the left-brainedness in him?)

As I've said many times, I can't pick a favorite Turtle very easily anymore, and even when I try it seems to change alot. But this would probably be my favorite Michelangelo. I see a hint of this Mikey in a few of the new movie posters - the one where he's actually got his serious face on. For whatever reason, those make me really happy. Too bad Mikey's obviously going to be more extreme and silly and maybe a little ADHD in the actual movie. But if I get to see at least one serious face from him, I'll be satisfied.

...heaven forbid I try something like this for the other Turtles. That was a lot of words. :tdead:

[Time Mistress]

Some well thought out posts. As far as Mike's intelligence goes I think he's very smart. He's not the genius Don is, but I think he's as smart as Raph or Leo. Mike's smarts however are of the creative kind. He's the most left brained of all the Turtles. Don the scientist, Mike's the artist and writer. The most like his namesake of all of the four. When it comes to how this applies to his ninjitsu, it's harder to say. I think it gives him the ability to think fast - like when he and Don were falling off the roof in one ep, and Mike came up with a quick way to save them both. I think his creativity allows him to be an unpredictable opponent, that keeps his enemies on their toes. Some might call his fighting chaotic, or making it up on the fly, but I think Mike's style of thinking allows him to read the body language of his opponent and use their emothional state to his advantage whenever possible. It certainly seems to work on Raph.

[Rooish]

Hm, that's a really good analysis, Masked Ninja. The one thing I must ask about is Mike's relationship with Don. Those two spend a lot of time together in most of the TMNT mediums. I definitely get that Mike doesn't get Don sometimes, finding him distant. But they definitely seem to have a good rapport, although I can imagine that Don might get more out of their relationship in terms of emotional connection. Mike is so friendly that everyone feels loved by him, and even Don needs love, sometimes. But they do have some things in common--they are less interested in training, they are less confrontational and egotistical, and they are peacemakers. I can see them understanding each other in that way.

I always saw Mike as being the least close with Leo, although Mike looks up to Leo and Leo wants to protect Mike and help him reach his full potential. Sometimes they have cheerful fun together. But Leo is so hard and cold sometimes, and he's such a perfectionist, and he's so responsible and proud. I'd think Mike would have difficulty understanding Leo.

I think Mike and Raph were the best of friends when they were younger. Then Raph got more depressed and angry, and he also started seeking more power. This lead to Raph's conflicts with Leo, but also to his closeness with Leo (shown especially in the movies and new toon). So Mike settled more for Don's companionship. I think that Mike misses Raph and wishes they could just have fun together again, but Raph is focused on Leo now. They still have good times, but I don't think they get each other quite as much when Raph is competing with Leo.

Poor Mikey.

[Masked Ninja]

Hm, that's a really good analysis, Masked Ninja. The one thing I must ask about is Mike's relationship with Don. Those two spend a lot of time together in most of the TMNT mediums. I definitely get that Mike doesn't get Don sometimes, finding him distant. But they definitely seem to have a good rapport, although I can imagine that Don might get more out of their relationship in terms of emotional connection. Mike is so friendly that everyone feels loved by him, and even Don needs love, sometimes. But they do have some things in common--they are less interested in training, they are less confrontational and egotistical, and they are peacemakers. I can see them understanding each other in that way.As far as I see it, they get along great day to day... and as much as Don loves his work, I'm sure he loves hanging out with Mikey to give his mind a break when he's working on a project. But as great as they get along, I see Mike feeling a little barrier between himself and Don just because they think so differently. Mikey is extremely right-brained, Don's very left-brained. They enjoy some of the same stuff, but on certain levels it just doesn't compute. It's more what Mike feels than what actually shows on the surface. Like sometimes he might not feel smart enough to truly relate to his brother. That kinda thing.

I always saw Mike as being the least close with Leo, although Mike looks up to Leo and Leo wants to protect Mike and help him reach his full potential. Sometimes they have cheerful fun together. But Leo is so hard and cold sometimes, and he's such a perfectionist, and he's so responsible and proud. I'd think Mike would have difficulty understanding Leo.Heh, I think Leo has a fun side that he hides most of the time, and Mikey knows about it. So he tries to bring that out as much as he can during normal family time. He's not always successful, but he's sure better at it than his other brothers. But yeah, there's a barrier there, too. When Leo is in no mood for fun, no fun happens, no matter how Mikey tries. Again, I can see Mikey looking up and seeing Leo and thinking "I wish I were like that." He's perfect for his role in the team, but I think there's a little bit of perfectionism that usually gets buried under his tendency to procrastinate or daydream. I can see him having some self-esteem issues because of this - he sees he's not as dedicated as Leo, not as brilliant as Don, not as powerful as Raph... and he fails to see his own potential and what he's already good for.

Heh, I might have to write out my thoughts for each turtle at some point, because overanalysis like this feels like stretching for my brain. I'll say this right now though... I prefer Don to be more the handyturtle and Mr. Fixit than being able to create technology beyond anything humankind has ...out of garbage. It feels a little more realistic to me that way.

And I know, using the term "realistic" in regards to TMNT is rather silly. :trazz:

Oh, and that's a good observation on Mike's relationship with Raph. It does make good sense.

[Rooish]

Character analysis is fun, eh? One time I tried to explain my interpretation of all the Turtles' relationships to one of my friends. I don't think she cared as much as I do. ;)

Good point about Mikey with Leo and Don.

[Warhorse]

Hey, keep up the character analysis thing you all got going. It's fun to read, and really makes the characters three dimentional.

[heretic888]

Again, I can see Mikey looking up and seeing Leo and thinking "I wish I were like that." He's perfect for his role in the team, but I think there's a little bit of perfectionism that usually gets buried under his tendency to procrastinate or daydream. I can see him having some self-esteem issues because of this - he sees he's not as dedicated as Leo, not as brilliant as Don, not as powerful as Raph... and he fails to see his own potential and what he's already good for.

Uhhh.... which version of Michelangelo are we talking about here??

In the new toon, Mike is the reigning Battle Nexus champion and defeated both Raphael and Kluh to prove it. And, in the unreleased "lost season", he mastered the technique of blinding speed, something none of his other brothers can do. I don't think he has any "self esteem" issues in this medium.

In the comic, Mike is much more emotionally mature and self-assured. He has defeated Raph twice in sparring (issue 2 and the Raphael one-shot), so I don't think he has any doubts about his combat ability. And, unlike the new toon, Mike actually has a bevy of artistic talents in the new comic.

No offense, guys, but I think you are reading truckloads into these characters that just isn't there.

[Jo Dawn]

Dude... where have you been?!

It's, like... the Mikey-Authority...

[Rooish]

Who is the Mikey-Authority?

[Masked Ninja]

Uhhh.... which version of Michelangelo are we talking about here??Not a canon one, you don't need to freak out. ;)

[Sage Ninja]

Though light-hearted overall, Mikey isn't immune to depression, which in his case usually comes from their separation from the human world. He'd love nothing more than to be able to walk the city streets and socialize with all the people he came into contact with, but he can't. He also probably feels the strongest guilt for the people he and his brothers kill, self defense or not, and occasionally this will hit home. He's also sensitive to negative comments from his brothers, whose opinions he values very highly. Whatever's making Mike feel down, he'll usually go hide himself somewhere to be sad about it, worrying that his brothers may think differently of him if they ever saw him this way... perhaps then his peacemaking skills wouldn't be as effective?

Just like sadness, Mikey shows outward anger sparingly. When he does get visibly angry, it's rather scary because you know there's enough built up that he can't conceal it any more. In family situations Mike's anger is the scary silent type... in terms of enemies (say, a ninja jumps out of nowhere and kills Don) he's more liable to go into a Raph-like rage, but it would take a severe hurt to do that, probably related to an injury to his family (as evidenced by the example), to which he's fiercely loyal.

While he enjoys training enough, after a while Mikey gets bored with it and goes off to do something fun. These will include video games, reading (comic books or whatever books they've collected over the years... they're all great to lose himself in), or even art. It's one of those far-flung dreams of his to one day draw comic books, or even write a best-selling novel. He's got natural talent in the martial arts, and if he had the drive or focus to surpass Leonardo he would most likely be able to do it... but he doesn't place much importance on being the "best," perferring to have fun with life. And while he's never even thought about it, his rising to the position of top fighter would probably change his relationship with Leonardo to be pretty uncomfortable, and he would regret it once he got there.

As for Leo, Mikey looks up to him as a big brother and shining example. Of course he believes Leo could stand to lighten up a lot, but he respects him for what he does for the family. He's also able to bring out a little bit of Leo's fun side, which he enjoys doing. Leo appreciates Mike for his peacemaker personality, and doesn't underestimate his skill like Don or Raph might on occasion - good especially for impromptu battle plans. He sees Mikey's potential and wishes he'd work harder to achieve it, but if Mikey ever surpassed him he honestly wouldn't know how to react.

Mikey feels like he knows Don the least, mainly because Don likes to spend a lot of time by himself and this doesn't compute to Mike's social-butterfly brain. They can have fun together easily enough, but sometimes Mikey feels like he just doesn't know Don well enough, like they think on totally different planes. Don, on the other hand, loves spending time with Mikey... though he does get annoyed whenever his "alone time" is disrupted. He also wishes Mikey would apply himself to something a little bit more, not seeing as much value in his younger brother's sketches and writings as Mikey himself does. (could be the left-brainedness in him?)[/color].

wow Masked Ninja you and I must be on the same brain waves or something because you have basically described the Michaelangelo that I like and what characteristics I would to see him display. i have to say that even though I like Michaelangelo I have always felt a little dissaticfied with his representation. I mean I see certain indepth characteristics that he has in the new toon (and the old toon) but for me the writters have always fell shy of ever delving into them and making him more three-demintional and have always choose to emblish his more silly or hyper-active side.

I guess when you like a character but they are not meeting your wants exaclty as a fan you tend to take what is hinted at in the show and then develop them in your imagination to what you feel is more true to that character. The Michaelangelo in my immagination is a bit diffrent in my head that what is shown on screen, and you have basically mentioned every single one of them. His multi-faceted emotions and his occasinal depression on not going out in the real world, his relationships his brothers. his prowess and potentical as a warrior and his scarey silent anger (that floored me when you mentioned that) and his artistic inclinations, to how his brother percive him (Leo's apprication for Mikey's thoughts and skills) and his closeness to Raph. Its almost like you looked into my head and took my imagined Michaelangelo! :o

Although in my head I imagine Mikey while angry being able to delever a verbal smack down on some one and being able to to word something in just such a way that can really cut and devistate you because he hits the truth. And only says things when he really means it and is very hard to win an agrument with because his bouts of anger are more of the rightous "How dare you!!" kind of anger when he feels he's been trully wronged.

However I do think I want to challenge you on one thing. I don't think Michaelangelo is nessacarely holding back his potentical just to not compete or usurp Leonardo's postition in the team. i think he just looks up to him to much to even try. Also I think Leonardo would have no problem if Michaelangelo became as good as him. I think Leonardo is confident in him self enough not to feel threatened by Michaelangelo and his talents. In fact I think if he Mikey did become as good as him I think Leo would appricate having some one to spar with him on his own skill level. I draw this conclusion from Grudge match because he was the only one who seemed uneffected by Mikey's boasting and actually helped him defend his title as Battle Nexus champion (which was something he hinself was in run for as well). I just enjoy Michaelangelo and Leonardo pairings since they seem to get along so well. Like in "Nobody's Fool.

. The one thing I must ask about is Mike's relationship with Don. Those two spend a lot of time together in most of the TMNT mediums. I definitely get that Mike doesn't get Don sometimes, finding him distant. But they definitely seem to have a good rapport, although I can imagine that Don might get more out of their relationship in terms of emotional connection. Mike is so friendly that everyone feels loved by him, and even Don needs love, sometimes. But they do have some things in common--they are less interested in training, they are less confrontational and egotistical, and they are peacemakers. I can see them understanding each other in that way.

I have to agree on Masked Ninja on the whole Donatello and Mikey thing. I don't know why but Mikey and Donatello as a pair just seems so out of place and forced. Like they hang or are stuck with each other because Leo and Raph have their thing between them going on. Don and Mikey are my least favorite pairing and it seems to the most likely paring in the movies and new toon. And I just not feeling their rapport. I also get the feeling that Don gets the most exasperated by Mikey and has the least amount of tolrance.

I think Mike and Raph were the best of friends when they were younger. Then Raph got more depressed and angry, and he also started seeking more power. This lead to Raph's conflicts with Leo, but also to his closeness with Leo (shown especially in the movies and new toon). So Mike settled more for Don's companionship. I think that Mike misses Raph and wishes they could just have fun together again, but Raph is focused on Leo now. They still have good times, but I don't think they get each other quite as much when Raph is competing with Leo.

I've thought this too as well. I think Mikey and Raph had a closer relationship when they where younger than what they do now. And I think the competiveness between Leo and Raph is the reason for it ad that in a sence Raph has choosen Leonardo's company over his as a result. In fact in later seasons Raph and Mikey never seem to get along all that well any more. I think the reason for this is that Raphael has changed and Mikey hasn't, and settled for Donatello's company by default. i wonder if thats the reason Mikey is more in Raphael's face than what he used to be, you know trying to get his attention again. I also wondr if Mikey feels in a sence that Casey stole Raph away from him, since they have so much in common. I don't to much evidence of this but Raph did apear to concebtrate on Casey than Mikey when he showed up. I know that Raph and Mikey have a closer friendship in the mirage comics and hung alot but Raph kind of ditches Mikey for Casey after he shows up. Was there any hints of jealously on Mikey's part when Casey showed up and too Raph's attention away?

heretic888 I'll get back to you when I have a chance I few things to say about what you posted.

[Raph86]

I'd say Raph, Mikey, Don, and then Leo

[poobone]

If you wanna get specific, I'd say Leo, Donnie, Raph, and then Mikey.

[poobone]

My personal version of Michelangelo (aka, what I'd write in my own TMNT story... aka my favorite characteristics mashed together) would be like this:

(warning: long personality overanalysis ahead! my brain got bored and my fingers just kept typing :P)


Mike's the one who keeps the others from getting too serious, but not solely in a comic relief kind of way. Being so readily social, he's just naturally able to get everyone (even Leo) to join in whatever fun he's cooking up without being overbearing or annoying about it. That said, he does enjoy bad/lame jokes and tells them partially because he thinks they're funny and partially because the "uuuugh" reactions from his bros cracks him up as much as the jokes. This does earn him the occasional headwhap from Raph, but he knows it's not administered out of pure annoyance, so he just savors the attention, maybe reciprocating with some playful jabs of his own. He's rarely happier than when having a good time with his family, or even friends of the family - just a social creature by nature. Of course, he's perfectly capable of being serious when the situation needs it, and he can usually tell when those times are.

Though light-hearted overall, Mikey isn't immune to depression, which in his case usually comes from their separation from the human world. He'd love nothing more than to be able to walk the city streets and socialize with all the people he came into contact with, but he can't. He also probably feels the strongest guilt for the people he and his brothers kill, self defense or not, and occasionally this will hit home. He's also sensitive to negative comments from his brothers, whose opinions he values very highly. Whatever's making Mike feel down, he'll usually go hide himself somewhere to be sad about it, worrying that his brothers may think differently of him if they ever saw him this way... perhaps then his peacemaking skills wouldn't be as effective? Extreme cases see Mikey sneaking to Splinter's side for emotional support, but he tries to keep this rare. His brothers are pretty perceptive, however, and can tell when he's upset... especially when he mysteriously disappears for several hours.

Fights in general are kind of a love/hate thing for Mikey. He hates having to kill people, but at the same time he loves being outside in the open air. He also loves feeling part of the team in whatever missions they have to accomplish. And the guilt doesn't even come until after the battle - during, it's almost a game for him as he outmaneuvers the enemy with as much style as he can afford.

Just like sadness, Mikey shows outward anger sparingly. When he does get visibly angry, it's rather scary because you know there's enough built up that he can't conceal it any more. In family situations Mike's anger is the scary silent type... in terms of enemies (say, a ninja jumps out of nowhere and kills Don) he's more liable to go into a Raph-like rage, but it would take a severe hurt to do that, probably related to an injury to his family (as evidenced by the example), to which he's fiercely loyal.

While he enjoys training enough, after a while Mikey gets bored with it and goes off to do something fun. These will include video games, reading (comic books or whatever books they've collected over the years... they're all great to lose himself in), or even art. It's one of those far-flung dreams of his to one day draw comic books, or even write a best-selling novel. He's got natural talent in the martial arts, and if he had the drive or focus to surpass Leonardo he would most likely be able to do it... but he doesn't place much importance on being the "best," perferring to have fun with life. And while he's never even thought about it, his rising to the position of top fighter would probably change his relationship with Leonardo to be pretty uncomfortable, and he would regret it once he got there.

Mikey gets along best with Raph, who he finds to be more fun to hang around with than Leo or Don, who are less social and more focused on their own interests. Videogame tournaments and practical jokes are common, as well as the type of silliness Leo or Don may not allow themselves to participate in. Raph sometimes feels like Mikey's the one who understands him the most, and instinctively gravitates to him when having emotional issues (often when he sneaks back into the lair after storming topside for whatever reason)

As for Leo, Mikey looks up to him as a big brother and shining example. Of course he believes Leo could stand to lighten up a lot, but he respects him for what he does for the family. He's also able to bring out a little bit of Leo's fun side, which he enjoys doing. Leo appreciates Mike for his peacemaker personality, and doesn't underestimate his skill like Don or Raph might on occasion - good especially for impromptu battle plans. He sees Mikey's potential and wishes he'd work harder to achieve it, but if Mikey ever surpassed him he honestly wouldn't know how to react.

Mikey feels like he knows Don the least, mainly because Don likes to spend a lot of time by himself and this doesn't compute to Mike's social-butterfly brain. They can have fun together easily enough, but sometimes Mikey feels like he just doesn't know Don well enough, like they think on totally different planes. Don, on the other hand, loves spending time with Mikey... though he does get annoyed whenever his "alone time" is disrupted. He also wishes Mikey would apply himself to something a little bit more, not seeing as much value in his younger brother's sketches and writings as Mikey himself does. (could be the left-brainedness in him?)

As I've said many times, I can't pick a favorite Turtle very easily anymore, and even when I try it seems to change alot. But this would probably be my favorite Michelangelo. I see a hint of this Mikey in a few of the new movie posters - the one where he's actually got his serious face on. For whatever reason, those make me really happy. Too bad Mikey's obviously going to be more extreme and silly and maybe a little ADHD in the actual movie. But if I get to see at least one serious face from him, I'll be satisfied.

...heaven forbid I try something like this for the other Turtles. That was a lot of words. :tdead:

Dude, you most definitely should do this with all the other turtles. That was awesome.

[Rooish]

You're right, Mask and Sage, the Don/Mikey friendship is really forced. Now that I think about it more, I see Don just putting up with Mikey. It really pisses me off that these two characters who lack the ability to grow when they're together are always stuck together. But, oh, Leo and Raph! Leo and Raph! :roll:

Sage Ninja, I always wondered how Mikey couldn't be jealous that he "lost" Raph to Casey and Leo. But in the old comics, he didn't really get any character growth until Jim Lawson and then the Image guys took over, so it doesn't really matter what Mikey felt for the first 62 issues!

heretic888 ... I'm pretty sure we can read into whatever we want. It seems to me that Mikey has self-esteem issues, not so much in the old comics (which doesn't matter anyway because he had such as small role), but definitely in the new toon. He's always freaking out and trying to forfeit about everything--like when he was set against Raph or Kluh or Splinter in the Battle Nexus, orwhen Leo was training him in "Grudge Match," or in "Good Genes, Part 2," where he cowered in terror as the Foot Elite tried to take back the artifact and while Leo was fighting them off. He may have gained uber-speed in the Ninja Tribunal, but he gained this power after Raph and Don already had accessed theirs, which were equally powerful. And then Leo summoned his own friggin' dragon before the others did. Geez, Mikey was in last place.

Mike needs to brag or joke just to fake having self-esteem. Sometimes he is genuinely cocky, but often this is only after initially doubting himself.

[triplexxx]

You're right, Mask and Sage, the Don/Mikey friendship is really forced. Now that I think about it more, I see Don just putting up with Mikey. It really pisses me off that these two characters who lack the ability to grow when they're together are always stuck together. But, oh, Leo and Raph! Leo and Raph! :roll: He may have gained uber-speed in the Ninja Tribunal, but he gained this power after Raph and Don already had accessed theirs, which were equally powerful. And then Leo summoned his own friggin' dragon before the others did. Geez, Mikey was in last place.
Donatello/Michaelangelo forced? Nah, wouldn't say that. Yes Michaelangelo and Donatello have their differences and sometimes Michaelangelo gets on Donatello's nerves, but they also have their similarities and get along pretty darn well. And they don't grow together either? As a twosome, they perform pretty well, like in Junklantis and the beginning of Secret Origins Part 2.And yes, Leonardo summoned the dragon first, but the actual "transformation to the dragon" didn't actually occur until "Enter the Dragons: Part 2", in which case it was a tie for all four of them, no first place, no last place.

[heretic888]

heretic888 ... I'm pretty sure we can read into whatever we want. It seems to me that Mikey has self-esteem issues, not so much in the old comics (which doesn't matter anyway because he had such as small role), but definitely in the new toon.

I never said you couldn't, but the key issue here is that half of the stuff you guys are speculating on comes right out of your imagination. It is not justified in the relevant "text" whatsoever.

He's always freaking out and trying to forfeit about everything--like when he was set against Raph or Kluh or Splinter in the Battle Nexus, orwhen Leo was training him in "Grudge Match," or in "Good Genes, Part 2," where he cowered in terror as the Foot Elite tried to take back the artifact and while Leo was fighting them off.

And this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Mike "freaks out" for comic effect. There is no psychological metanarrative about self-esteem compensation here, outside of one that is purely fabricated. The writers make Mike out that way to evoke some laughs from their audience.

As to whether this "freak out" behavior is genuine or simply a ruse on Mike's part, we really can't say. No matter what anybody pretends to do with this character analysis, we just don't have that much information on the character, due primarily to the nature of the medium (it is a Saturday morning cartoon, after all). You can't justify it is genuine fear anymore than I can justify its a half-hearted act. The truth of the matter is the "text" offers very little depth into the characters.

Although, when it comes to the Battle Nexus match against Raph, I would argue it definitely was a ruse. He deliberately manipulated and misdirected his brother to gain a tactical advantage.

He may have gained uber-speed in the Ninja Tribunal, but he gained this power after Raph and Don already had accessed theirs, which were equally powerful.

If by "equally powerful" you mean "completely useless", then sure.

The "power" that Raph and Don acquired was pointless because of the weapons they had acquired. You will notice that after their training, Raph and Don not once used their "power" in actual combat. They just smashed things with their weapons, like Mike and Leo did.

Mike, however, did use his speed ability after their training.

And then Leo summoned his own friggin' dragon before the others did. Geez, Mikey was in last place.

Yes, Mike and Leo were the only two with "unique" abilities. I'm not sure which "last place" you're referring to here, as none of the others but Leo acquired the dragon avatar.

Mike needs to brag or joke just to fake having self-esteem. Sometimes he is genuinely cocky, but often this is only after initially doubting himself.

You, of course, have no justification for this assessment in the "text" itself. You can't tell me his behavior is genuine as opposed to contrived, because such information is unavailable to us. Like I said in my first post, much of what has been discussed here is just reading into the characters what we want there to be.

Have a good one.

[triplexxx]

If by "equally powerful" you mean "completely useless", then sure.

The "power" that Raph and Don acquired was pointless because of the weapons they had acquired. You will notice that after their training, Raph and Don not once used their "power" in actual combat. They just smashed things with their weapons, like Mike and Leo did.

Mike, however, did use his speed ability after their training.

Yes, Mike and Leo were the only two with "unique" abilities. I'm not sure which "last place" you're referring to here, as none of the others but Leo acquired the dragon avatar.
I'm sure I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about here. Raphael and Donatello didn't use their powers? Leonardo's and Michaelangelo's abilities were the only unique ones? Only Leonardo had the dragon avatar? There are two things you obviously didn't watch: the battle scenes in whatever Lost Season episodes have aired; and the Spoilers for "Enter the Dragons Part 2". Not to mention, not all Lost Season episodes have been shown yet, don't you think you're speaking a little too soon?

[Masked Ninja]

I never said you couldn't, but the key issue here is that half of the stuff you guys are speculating on comes right out of your imagination. It is not justified in the relevant "text" whatsoever.And if you'll look, I stated this in the beginning of my huge Mikey post. I don't intend to ignore canon, just fill in blanks based on what I've seen. I haven't read very many of the comics, but I'm keeping an eye out for them so I can. I just thought it'd be fun to ramble on a bit and see what happened.

Didn't know I had the ultimate authority on Michelangelo watching. :roll: ;)

Oh, and as for Mikey and Don hanging out: I don't think it's forced. I just don't think they're the closest of close, at least not as much as they try to make it sometimes. The first movie, while I loved it, felt a little weird. Don being Mikey's purple-wearin' clone was part of it, but them hanging out and joking together was the second. I guess I'd always assumed Don and Leo would get along the best.

[MrOldSchool]

Leo, because my man Cam Clarke does his voice. :D Big Cam Clarke fan here. I got his autograph!

[Unicron the Agitator]

I have always liked Leo the best. First, because as a Kid I liked the fact that his mask was blue and that was my favorite color. But as I got into the Mirage comics, I liked Leo's sense of Bushido and his passion for his art. But his character development in the 2K3 series really put him over the top. Leo assuming the role of "big brother", and not being affraid to take the big chances showed us that he isn't just "Splinter Jr.". And I loved the angry, hard Leo after being stabbed in the back during the final fight with Shredder. It aded another demension to his character.

I totally understood what he was going through. He had spent the lion's share of his life putting the others before him, and in the end it wasn't enough. It was a perfect example of the teen who was forced to be "too perfect", only to burst under the pressure. Leo's intense training and jaded behavior wah akin to a drug addiction, a way to deal with the pressure. He finally had to seek "therapy" from the Ancient One to help him understand that eveything doesn't always have to be his responsibility.

Just to weigh in on Mikey's "innate potential" and his victories over Raph, there are a few factors that need to be addressed. For starters, Mikey's win in the Battle Nexus was aided by the fact that Splinter forfieted their match. Had Splinter fought, Mikey might not have made it to the match with Raph. Splinter's gesture may have had the biggest impact on the Battle Nexus tournament.

Also, Mikey and Don's relationship seems very natural. Both have child-like wonder, and enjoy much of the same things. I think Don enjoys making all the cool gadgets as much as Mikey loves playing with them. It's like the comic book geek and the computer nerd hanging out. Doesn't seem too forced to me.

[heretic888]

And if you'll look, I stated this in the beginning of my huge Mikey post. I don't intend to ignore canon, just fill in blanks based on what I've seen. I haven't read very many of the comics, but I'm keeping an eye out for them so I can. I just thought it'd be fun to ramble on a bit and see what happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by "canon" here (the comics, I assume).

When I used the term "text", I was doing so in reference to the original literary source for the character analysis (something done commonly in literary criticism). It was not explicitly in reference to the comic books.

And I'm going to have to reiterate the obvious here: a lot of this is just you guys making stuff up because it sounds good. It is not justified in the source "text" and, as such, equally valid yet completely contradictory interpretations of the characters can be culled from them. That is problematic.

Didn't know I had the ultimate authority on Michelangelo watching. :roll: ;)

I'm not the "ultimate authority" of anything. However, I do believe in the merits of sound logic.

Laterz.

[Rooish]

Oy! Masked Ninja did state pretty clearly that those were her opinions; she never tried to say that she was the authority. I suppose that, in a thread where everyone is supposed to give their unique individual opinions on their favorite Turtles, based on their unique individual interpretations of the TMNT, I should have made a disclaimer that I was stating my own. ;)

With any story, you have to fill in the blanks if you want to form a full opinion on a particular person. Everyone's is different. It seems that several people agreed with Masked Ninja and interpreted Mikey the same way she does, which suggests that she's not just pulling those opinions out of thin air, but out of some sort of evidence. As for me, I suppose there are events in the 2003 cartoon that could lead one to interpret that Mikey has high self-esteem, but I have interpreted events the opposite way.

For example, Mikey won the original Battle Nexus tournament because a) Usagi and Leo were disqualified, and I'm sure they both could have given Mikey a run for his money, b) Splinter forfeited for Mikey's sake, c) Mikey was pitted against Raph, who Mikey had had practice fighting against, and d) he hit Kluh accidentally when the fight wasn't even on. If I had won that way, I would have felt pretty guilty and inadequate, knowing that I wasn't "the best fighter in all the multiverse," as Mikey says in "Grudge Match," but just someone who had gotten very lucky a bunch of times. I don't see why anyone would brag about such a thing unless he was insecure about his cheap win and wanted to cover that up. And I don't see why he would have lay there and let Kluh pound the crap out of him for so long in "Grudge Match" if he didn't truly think he couldn't win. I don't think that freak out of his was purely for comic effect; I sure wasn't laughing at that part.

I'm not even sure that one could say there is a true Mikey, or a true Leo, Raph or Don, except perhaps in Peter Laird's head ... but Peter Laird is not the only person who has written things that are considered "canon." So has Jim Lawson, Kevin Eastman, those who wrote the original movie, those who write the 2003 cartoon, and Kevin Munroe. As far as I know, all the Mirage comics, as well as the 2003 cartoon and the 1st, 4th, and to a small extent the 2nd movies are going to be considered "canon," because Pete approves of them strongly. And they aren't even compatible; the characters act different in all of them and different events occur. So we have to amalgamate the evidence and create "true" Leos, Raphs, Dons and Mikeys for ourselves.

Geez, reading into things is part of the fun of being a fan!

And oh yeah, I don't mean that Don's and Mikey's relationship in the 'toon is "forced" in that they don't act natural with each other or enjoy one another (I agree with you about the childlike wonder, Unicron). I mean that the writers force the relationship to be the main one for each of them because the writers are so focused on keeping Leo and Raph as a pair. And I don't think Don would be Mikey's first choice as a friend, or vice versa.

[triplexxx]

I'm not even sure that one could say there is a true Mikey, or a true Leo, Raph or Don, except perhaps in Peter Laird's head ... but Peter Laird is not the only person who has written things that are considered "canon." So has Jim Lawson, Kevin Eastman, those who wrote the original movie, those who write the 2003 cartoon, and Kevin Munroe. As far as I know, all the Mirage comics, as well as the 2003 cartoon and the 1st, 4th, and to a small extent the 2nd movies are going to be considered "canon," because Pete approves of them strongly. And they aren't even compatible; the characters act different in all of them and different events occur. So we have to amalgamate the evidence and create "true" Leos, Raphs, Dons and Mikeys for ourselves.
Excellent point, if only you could get more fans to acknowledge this, especially those calling Laird a deuch at IMDb.

[Warhorse]

Excellent point, if only you could get more fans to acknowledge this, especially those calling Laird a deuch at IMDb.


Haha, you noticed that too on the IMdb boards. That particular thread has gotten rather bizzarre. People are just arguing now for the sake of arguing.

[Masked Ninja]

When I used the term "text", I was doing so in reference to the original literary source for the character analysis (something done commonly in literary criticism). It was not explicitly in reference to the comic books.Are you referring to the Palladium RPG here? And if so, how "official" is that?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but your condescending tone is getting on my nerves. Especially since I was clear that my ramblings are for FUN. :|

[heretic888]

Are you referring to the Palladium RPG here?

No. In the context of the discussion in which I used the term, I was referring to the animated series on FoxBox.

And if so, how "official" is that?

Its as "official" as it gets when discussing the Mirage characters (I was told this explicitly by Dan Berger via email), but that is neither here nor there.

[Sage Ninja]

Uhhh.... which version of Michelangelo are we talking about here??

In the new toon, Mike is the reigning Battle Nexus champion and defeated both Raphael and Kluh to prove it. And, in the unreleased "lost season", he mastered the technique of blinding speed, something none of his other brothers can do. I don't think he has any "self esteem" issues in this medium.

In the comic, Mike is much more emotionally mature and self-assured. He has defeated Raph twice in sparring (issue 2 and the Raphael one-shot), so I don't think he has any doubts about his combat ability. And, unlike the new toon, Mike actually has a bevy of artistic talents in the new comic.

No offense, guys, but I think you are reading truckloads into these characters that just isn't there.

ok, I think this has already been stated before that what Masked Ninja was talking about was her favorite Michaelangelo characteristics all meshed together when she does fan fic. And that is what we where talking about. And I can understand how talking about our "imagined" Michaelanglo might have discredited us and made it appear we saying things that wheren't apparent when we started talking about the "real" new toon Mikey.

I think (and I'm talking about my obsevations of his actions in the new toon) that Michaelangelo does have some self-esteem issues despite being physically gifted. Its not so much his tendacy to brag that leads me to belive this but his constant desire to do things out in the open and be reconised for his actions and deeds. A great example of this is in the Unconvinceing Turtle Titan episode where he creates his own alter ego so that is diffrent from his ninja persona so he fight crime in the open and be awknowledged. He wants admiration and appriciation and he's not getting it from his little circle of a life so he wants it from people. I think Mike for all his talents feels a little put out by the whole "live in the shadows" and "never be seen" life style, since it doesn't fit his out going personality. I;ve made this agument before but I think the underlying reason for Michaelangelo creating turtle titan in the first place wasn't just so he can play super hero but so he can have a chance to shine on his own with out his brothers there stealing his thunder. I mean he can fight and he is strong and fast but so are Leo, Don, and Raph and this is something that he can't say he has alone. Michaelangelo is an attention seeker and he wants to be noticed and awknolwdged on his own merits.

I don't think the whole team dynamic works to well for Michaelangelo and that why I think he is still hung up on his whole Turtle titan persona. Their are other examples of him wanting to be awknowledged for his talents like in the battle nexus tournament where he admitted to Splinter that it was nice to be doing this sort of thing out in the open and have the admiration of the crowds, he was totally eating it up. And I know this could be written off as not being a sign of low self esteem but just a desire for attention but I think given his living sitution I think hes developed something of complex. That and for reasons Rooish has already pointed out, I was going to mentions those but he/she beat me to it, there is actually more but I can't think of any off the top pf my head right now. But any way these are just things that I have have intepreted as signs that Mikey isn't as self assured and happy go luck as he makes him self out to be, other people, like you for example might see it in a diffent way.

And this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Mike "freaks out" for comic effect. There is no psychological metanarrative about self-esteem compensation here, outside of one that is purely fabricated. The writers make Mike out that way to evoke some laughs from their audience.

As to whether this "freak out" behavior is genuine or simply a ruse on Mike's part, we really can't say. No matter what anybody pretends to do with this character analysis, we just don't have that much information on the character, due primarily to the nature of the medium (it is a Saturday morning cartoon, after all). You can't justify it is genuine fear anymore than I can justify its a half-hearted act. The truth of the matter is the "text" offers very little depth into the characters.

Although, when it comes to the Battle Nexus match against Raph, I would argue it definitely was a ruse. He deliberately manipulated and misdirected his brother to gain a tactical advantage

good point. I never thought that Mikey might have been faking him out to get him to lower his gaurd. I've always thought it was weird that Mikey was able to genuanly beat Raph in Meet Casey Jones but was so afraid of him in the Big Brawl episodes. I thought that maybe his near run in with a lead pipe had scared him from wanting to fight Raph head on ever again. Mikey has always struck me as some one who fights by out manuvring his opponant. Is that what you belive he did here in the Big Brawl?

[oldshreddersgirl]

I think all of the turtles are cute and funny even now as i watch the newer TMNT cartoons but i have to say my favorite character is the shredder (the old one)he rules!:D

[poobone]

I think all of the turtles are cute and funny even now as i watch the newer TMNT cartoons but i have to say my favorite character is the shredder (the old one)he rules!:D

what? the old shredder was a coward. He let Bebop and Rocksteady do all the work, and he just whined to Krang over and over.

If you put the old Shredder against the 2k3 Oroku Saki, the old shredder would get creamed.

[oldshreddersgirl]

what? the old shredder was a coward. He let Bebop and Rocksteady do all the work, and he just whined to Krang over and over.

If you put the old Shredder against the 2k3 Oroku Saki, the old shredder would get creamed.

yeah i know but like him anyway call me an old school girl

yeah is this new shredder supposed to be back from the dead and from another time?

[poobone]

well, i'm less than halfway into season 1, so i'm not the right one to answer that question, but so far I'd say he's not back from the dead.... he's just a complete badass. He freakin cut out BAXTER STOCKMAN's EYE!!!!! :o

[愛]

Raphael is totally hot!!! Splinter's not bad looking, either.

[Jo Dawn]

I knew it! I knew you liked 'em short and furry, with a biiiig tail.

[oldshreddersgirl]

Raphael is totally hot!!! Splinter's not bad looking, either.

yeah splinters cute

[oldshreddersgirl]

I knew it! I knew you liked 'em short and furry, with a biiiig tail.

oooooh we are gettin freaky out here!

[oldshreddersgirl]

well, i'm less than halfway into season 1, so i'm not the right one to answer that question, but so far I'd say he's not back from the dead.... he's just a complete badass. He freakin cut out BAXTER STOCKMAN's EYE!!!!! :o

No one can do it like him

[twigs232]

I love all the Turtles very much but Don has to be my favorite! LOL

[Ji-Day]

Ho... Such a good question...
I don't know...
For me... It is all of them or no one...

[weredog]

When I was a kid it was Mikey, but these days I find myself identifying more with Raph. I've got the same kind of temper he does.

[oldshreddersgirl]

i love them all but if i had to choose it would have to be michaelangelo he's too cool

[Sage Ninja]

Donatello/Michaelangelo forced? Nah, wouldn't say that. Yes Michaelangelo and Donatello have their differences and sometimes Michaelangelo gets on Donatello's nerves, but they also have their similarities and get along pretty darn well. And they don't grow together either? As a twosome, they perform pretty well, like in Junklantis and the beginning of Secret Origins Part 2

ok, I guess I used the wrong word for Donatello and Michaelangelo. I guess their relationship is not "forced" I just never cared for the twosome in the cartoons, and felt that they wheren't right with each other. Like if there where two people that just don't seem good together its Don and Mikey, and I think I got this bad taste in my mouth for that pair-up from the first live action movie. They just seemed wrong with each other, and i didn't care for how they played off of each other. And I have to say that when I started to watch the new toon I was a bit annoyed that the general pair-ups where paterning the live action movie and having Don and Mike together.

Although I'm thankful that at least in the new toon they have Don with his own personality instead of being a comedic tag team with Mike like he was in the Movies. But still...I'm just not a big fan of Donatello and Michaelangelo, even if they do share the same laid back personality with one another. I guess its because in that regard they are so similar that I find them boring, unlike Raph and Leo whos similarites in personality creat sparks and interesting character interaction. Its why i find episodes that center around Don and Mikey kind of uneventful, like in Junklantis. I found it to be rather boring and no episode other than this one presents the jarring diffrence in the maturity levels between Don and Mikey than this episode does. And not in an interesting good way eighther. Don and Mikey interactions put me in mind of a grown-up trying to do somehing while dragging a long a little kid with him. So yeah, that is basically why i'm not a fan of the Donatello and Michaelangelo pair-ups.

[TMNTserbia]

Raphael!!!!!

[Revan]

well, i'm less than halfway into season 1, so i'm not the right one to answer that question, but so far I'd say he's not back from the dead.... he's just a complete badass. He freakin cut out BAXTER STOCKMAN's EYE!!!!! :o


You are in for a bad ass surprise

yeah i know but like him anyway call me an old school girl

yeah is this new shredder supposed to be back from the dead and from another time?

You need to watch the episodes. Answering this question would ruin your whole experience.

[Dralam]

my favorite character are

Splinter and Leatherhead

[shellofinsanity]

id have to say my favorite turtle is Leo, i always liked him, and he is the reason my fav color is blue, as for fav overall, it would have to be the Nutrinos over all, just something about them

[dlobro1080]

Hey guys,

My name's Dan, I'm totally new here -- I was a huge fan as a kid, and with the movie coming out, I've officially rediscovered the Turtles.

When I was young, my favorite was Leonardo, but I always had trouble picking a favorite. At the New York Comic Con a couple of weeks ago, I was walking around the show floor on the Friday night, and spotted Kevin Eastman at the Heavy Metal booth, relatively un-busy. So I approached him with my sketchbook and said, "Um, I know you're not setup for this, but would you draw me a turtle?" And he said, "Sure!" He drew the most kick ass Raphael I've ever seen -- I never realized how cool Raph looks.

So, long story short, Raph is now my favorite along with Leo. And Mr. Eastman was an incredibley nice guy, I'm happy to say.

Best,
Dan

[shellofinsanity]

id love to meet eastman or laird.

[Chef Boyarquoa]

When I was young watching the cartoon, I liked Raph as the cool wise-cracking turtle even though my favorite color was/is blue and that's why it was sometimes split between him and Leonardo. This being the case, I don't always like Leo's dominant serious leader attitude and that's why I've probably always liked Raph a little more. Also, in the the first movie I found Raph's and Casey's rivalry and eventual friendship an interesting sub-plot. My favorite is Raph to this day.

[danzilla]

It is so easy Raphael of course. I have been married to his knife fighting skills and his mouth!! And this is also my first post. Whis me luck:D

[MAESTAS]

I honestly dont have a favorite turtle, I like them all the same, thats why I am always changing my sig picture.

[Greed]

Oh Raph by far, gotta love that angst.

[Starkiller]

Most of my mates favour Raphael, but my best friend and I are Mikey fangirls ;) How can you resist a party boy? After that, I don't really care - love the rest equally, though I am pretty fond of Donnie.

[Ra]

Raph will always be number one with me. He was my favorite turtle as a kid and he is my favorite turtle now. He is a loner, he can have a fun time if he wants to, but he is prone to snapping at the people he loves. He has a kind heart and loves his brothers, but he sees himself as the outcast of the outcasts and tends to be by himself a lot more than his brothers. I can really see myself in him, since I could never find a true friend in primary school. Even now, when I have many friends around me, I can't help but feel that I just don't belong there for some strange reason.

For Mikey, I like him for his fun personality. The complete opposite of Raph, it's like he's the other half of me that only rises when my friends are around. Crazy, outgoing, at times a little over the top, but always looking for ways to have fun. Currently I seem to be drawing him a bit more than the other turtles... *blinks and scrathes her head*

As for Leo and Don...I love them both dearly. It's so hard to play favorites with the turtles since you can identify with them so much. Don is a rational thinker...which I am not. I usually jump head first into situations like Raph :embarass: It makes me wish that I was a bit more like him. As with Leo...I could never undertake the pressure and responsibility of the role as "leader". He is extremely strong in spirit, and I respect him greatly for that.

I love them all greatly, but in the end it is always Raph who comes up on top in the end. Who can not love the hot head? :D