Old Switcheroo episode no. 2 of season 3

[Krangstein]

Have you guys noticed that the Turtles first discover Shredder's transport module in The old Switcheroo, although they have seen it in a few episodes before, they act all surprised in this episode like they have never seen it before. There have always been some confusion over the order of episodes but i think it's safe to assume this was the second episode to be written for season 3, not Turtles on trial. Any one else noticed this?

[Deathknight]

It's been confirmed many times that the list on the official site is indeed wrong in a lot of ways. I'd say Season 3 and 4 are by far the worst when it comes to the actual order compared to theirs.

[Krang]

You can see a better estimate of the correct episode order by looking at gobo's episode list (http://www.thetechnodrome.com/loceplist.shtml), which is ordered by production number. BTW, sorry if the design of that page is a little messy, I really need to update that...

[Krangstein]

You can see a better estimate of the correct episode order by looking at gobo's episode list (http://www.thetechnodrome.com/loceplist.shtml), which is ordered by production number. BTW, sorry if the design of that page is a little messy, I really need to update that...

That guide is only good for airdates, it's not the order the episodes were made in.

[MrPliggins]

That's not completely right for airdates either. I have many of the original airings taped in order and the first week of '89 went: Beneath these streets, Sky Turtles, Turtles on Trial, Attack of the 50foot irma, and Maltese Turtle. Although, since the show was syndicated, it may be possible it was aired in a different order in different places.

[Krangstein]

That's not completely right for airdates either. I have many of the original airings taped in order and the first week of '89 went: Beneath these streets, Sky Turtles, Turtles on Trial, Attack of the 50foot irma, and Maltese Turtle. Although, since the show was syndicated, it may be possible it was aired in a different order in different places.

True, where I lived the order was: Beneath these streets, The Old switcheroo, Sky Turtles, Attack of the 50-Foot Irma, Turtles on Trial, etc. I have all season 3 taped from the old days. I remember Shredderville was shown in the middle rather than near the end. I can make a list of the episode order. Also I noticed, the order it was shown in my country had the opening-title of Leonardo eating Pizza and Michaelangelo with Leo's sword shown every other episode, not shuffled like the DVD order, indicating it might be the original order of episodes. But I might be wrong. I just checked season one and season 2 on my DVDs and I noticed the title always had Leo, Mikie, leo, mikie but on season 3, the episodes were all shuffled, so I am pretty sure the old switcheroo is indead the second episode.

[sdp]

I'd definately be interested in joining a 'group' effort in putting the series in the 'best' chronological way.

[Krangstein]

I'd definately be interested in joining a 'group' effort in putting the series in the 'best' chronological way.

I'll post the list tonight. I have to go through 6 tapes

[gobo]

That's not completely right for airdates either. I have many of the original airings taped in order and the first week of '89 went: Beneath these streets, Sky Turtles, Turtles on Trial, Attack of the 50foot irma, and Maltese Turtle. Although, since the show was syndicated, it may be possible it was aired in a different order in different places.
True, where I lived the order was: Beneath these streets, The Old switcheroo, Sky Turtles, Attack of the 50-Foot Irma, Turtles on Trial, etc. I have all season 3 taped from the old days. I remember Shredderville was shown in the middle rather than near the end. I can make a list of the episode order. Also I noticed, the order it was shown in my country had the opening-title of Leonardo eating Pizza and Michaelangelo with Leo's sword shown every other episode, not shuffled like the DVD order, indicating it might be the original order of episodes. But I might be wrong. I just checked season one and season 2 on my DVDs and I noticed the title always had Leo, Mikie, leo, mikie but on season 3, the episodes were all shuffled, so I am pretty sure the old switcheroo is indead the second episode.
"TURTLES ON TRIAL" came first in my area. I don't know about the rest.
You can see a better estimate of the correct episode order by looking at gobo's episode list (http://www.thetechnodrome.com/loceplist.shtml), which is ordered by production number. BTW, sorry if the design of that page is a little messy, I really need to update that...
Thanks for the props, Krang. ^_^ But, production numbers aren't an indicator of what little continuity this show had. Case in point is that "ATLANTIS AWAKES" and "INVASION OF THE KRANGAZOIDS" couldn't possibly have come after "SHREDDER TRIUMPHANT!". The numbers must have been assigned before noticing this More likely, I think, CBS extended the 12-ep order by two at the last minute. I doubt even the production team could say for certain now.
I'd definately be interested in joining a 'group' effort in putting the series in the 'best' chronological way.
That's something I've always wanted to do, but never found the time. That would require going through all the eps to pick out milestones and guessing at all the rest.

[Krangstein]

I live in iceland, europe, so that explains why my order is so differnt. I am not saying it's any better but at least the little continuity there was, was aways 100%. And the opening title was always leo, mike, leo, mike, if that says any thing... and yes i should mention that Dimension X Story was shown before Son of return of the fly, where the volcano in Dimension X Story is mentioned, again showing it might be the right order of episodes.

[CyberCubed]

Isn't Lionsgate putting the episodes on DVD in order? So far the episodes are in the exact same order on the DVDs as they are on the official site, complete with the skipped European episodes and onward to Season 4.

Wouldn't they know what order to put the series in?

[Krangstein]

Isn't Lionsgate putting the episodes on DVD in order? So far the episodes are in the exact same order on the DVDs as they are on the official site, complete with the skipped European episodes and onward to Season 4.

Wouldn't they know what order to put the series in?

No they wouldn't. And the official order isn't the correct one either.

[sdp]

That's something I've always wanted to do, but never found the time. That would require going through all the eps to pick out milestones and guessing at all the rest.

well if its a 'group effort' on the forum it'd be a lot easier,

I know i am going to rewatch all the classic toons dvds in hype of the movie, i'll definately pay more attention to continuity things this time around.

[Krang]

That guide is only good for airdates, it's not the order the episodes were made in.
Actually, that guide doesn't cover airdates. The dates listed on there are not relevant, since they apparently refer to when the episodes were added to the Library of Congress. However, the reason I brought it up was because of the production numbers (third column from the left), which should give an approximation of when the episodes were actually created.

Like gobo said, though, this doesn't necessarily indicate the correct order for continuity, but it should provide a more helpful starting point than the "official" order that the DVDs and official site use. But from your later posts in this thread, it sounds like the airdate order for your area may be even more accurate, so, on second thought, it would probably be best to start with that order and work from there.

[MrPliggins]

sounds like a big job! I still have most of the original airings of 1989 on tape..however, most of 1990's got taped over. 1991-1996 are easy. I think the official site has those right. I don't know if there can be a completely accurate list of 1989 because it looks like it aired in different orders in different places. 1990 may have been the same everywhere since it was a network.

[Krangstein]

sounds like a big job! I still have most of the original airings of 1989 on tape..however, most of 1990's got taped over. 1991-1996 are easy. I think the official site has those right. I don't know if there can be a completely accurate list of 1989 because it looks like it aired in different orders in different places. 1990 may have been the same everywhere since it was a network.

Actually 1992 is not that easy, Leonardo is missing is before Rock around the block, with the technodrome still stuck in the artic, not in the ocean. Also Adventure in Turtle Sitting is the last Shredder-episode of that season.

[Krangstein]

Ok, It took alot of time going through all the tapes but here is the order of episodes, shown way back in iceland... I don't know if it's the original order but it least continuity is 100% Take a look!

Beneath These Streets
The Old Switcheroo
Sky Turtles
Attack of the 50-Foot Irma
Turtles on Trial
The Fifth Turtle
Burne's Blues
20,000 Leaks Under the City
Turtles, Turtles Everywhere
April’s Fool
Attack of Big MACC
Turtles at the Earth's Core
Camera Bugged
Take Me To Your Leader
Enter The Rat King
The Ninja Sword of Nowhere
Green With Jealousy
Four Musketurtles
The Maltese Hamster
Return of The Fly
Casey Jones: Outlaw Hero
Cowabunga Shredhead
Invasion of The Turtle Snatcher
Mutagen Monster
Usagi Yojimbo
Leatherhead: Terror of the Swamp
Beware the Lotus
Case of the Hot Kimono
The Making of Metalhead
Usagi Come Home
Pizza by the Shred
Shredderville
Corporate Raiders from Dimension X
Mr. Ogg Goes to Town
Super Bebop and Mighty Rocksteady
Michaelangelo's Birthday
Leatherhead Meets the Rat King
The Turtle Terminator
The Great Boldini
The Missing Map
The Grybyx
Bye Bye Fly
The Gang's All Here
Blast from the Past
The Big Rip Off
The Big Break-In
The Big Blow Out

[sdp]

Ok, It took alot of time going through all the tapes but here is the order of episodes, shown way back in iceland... I don't know if it's the original order but it least continuity is 100% Take a look!


thanks, i wonder if its the real order, it'd make sense that when they'd sell the episodes they'd give it to other countries in the order they're supposed to, since there is so little continuity its so hard to tell but i'm going to see it in this order in a month or so and i'll see if it works better 8)

do you know if Season 2 was in correct order?

[Krangstein]

thanks, i wonder if its the real order, it'd make sense that when they'd sell the episodes they'd give it to other countries in the order they're supposed to, since there is so little continuity its so hard to tell but i'm going to see it in this order in a month or so and i'll see if it works better 8)

do you know if Season 2 was in correct order?

Season 1 and 2 were the same as on the DVD but season 3 was different, and season 4 slightly different, Dimension X Story was the first CBS episode not Son of Return of the Fly. Also season 3 had the opening title (Name of the episode and who wrote it) with Leo eating a Pizza and Mike with Leo's swords, shown every other time, it was not like that on the DVD. Beneath these streets had Leo, old switcheroo had Mike, Sky Turtles had Leo, Attack of the 50-foot irma had Mike... etc. Season 1 and 2 also, and that's the reason I started looking in to this and the first reason I started to believe it might be the original order, than i looked at continuity. The thing I like about this order is that Blast from the past is the last episode before the 3-part-finale, and that works out well, since its a recap-episode and shredder nad Krang talk about how they have tried everything to get the technodrome working again.

[Krangstein]

Oops, I made a small mistake in the episode order, i was doing it in a hurry and there were so many tapes, but I have corrected it now, and the order i posted is 100%, not that any one would notice the difference :)

[sdp]

I'm definately going to pay more attention to continuity now specially when rewatch S3 and get S4, i went ahead and printed it and put it on my Vol.3-6 dvds to have the 'speculated' right order.

It would even make a nice article for the technodrome.com

[oldmanwinters]

As regards Krangstein's list, there would still be at least one continuity problem. In "Bye, Bye, Fly" I think Donatello announced that the Turtle water tubes were his latest invention. They were used as early as "Pizza By the Shred" and "Case of the Hot Kimono."

[Krangstein]

Did any one else notice that the animation was very diferrent in the episodes:

Pizza By The Shred,
Turtle Terminator
Blast From the Past
April Fool
Michaelangelo's Birthday
The Grybyx

Looks more like season 4 animation, and the end credits are different than rest of season 3.

[gobo]

Looks more like season 4 animation, and the end credits are different than rest of season 3.
The only difference I see in end credits is on "PLAN SIX FROM OUTER SPACE" (technically, it's a season four episode anyway). Can you tell me what you meant by that?

[Krangstein]

The only difference I see in end credits is on "PLAN SIX FROM OUTER SPACE" (technically, it's a season four episode anyway). Can you tell me what you meant by that?

Sure I can, the usual end credits would say: Supervising producer: Fred Wolf, Producer: Walt Kubrick, Supervising director: Bill Wolf, but these other episode had different endcredits, It reads: Supervising producer: Fred Wolf, Producers: Jimmy T. Murakamimi, Rudy J. Zamora, Animation Director, Red Lodge. And it's only these few episodes I mentioned. They are very different from the other episodes in many ways, the animation is also cruder and colors are different..

[oldmanwinters]

Here were the typical end credit logos:
First: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/MWSinc-1.jpg
Then: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/GroupW-1.jpg

But here is the alternate end credit logos:
First: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/MWDublin-1.jpg
Then: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/GroupW-1.jpg

And, Krangstein, I know what you're talking about on those particular episodes.

Often, the characters looked a tad more "rubbery" for lack of a better term, and were consistently more "off-model" (as the professionals say) than the regular style. Its easier to notice it more with the human characters than the Turtles themselves. For instance, note this comparison of April from "The Making of Metalhead" and "Michaelangelo's Birthday."
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/AprilA-1.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/AprilB-1.jpg
The 2nd version was from the MW Dublin style. As you can see, the hair has less detail and is darker. The eyes are different too. Also, MW Dublin seemed to have used less shading on the characters. It would seem that most of the Murakamimi, Zamora, Lodge episodes were done with this studio, although I need a fact check on that.

[Krangstein]

Here were the typical end credit logos:
First: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/MWSinc-1.jpg
Then: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/GroupW-1.jpg

But here is the alternate end credit logos:
First: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/MWDublin-1.jpg
Then: http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/GroupW-1.jpg

And, Krangstein, I know what you're talking about on those particular episodes.

Often, the characters looked a tad more "rubbery" for lack of a better term, and were consistently more "off-model" (as the professionals say) than the regular style. Its easier to notice it more with the human characters than the Turtles themselves. For instance, note this comparison of April from "The Making of Metalhead" and "Michaelangelo's Birthday."
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/AprilA-1.jpg


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/AprilB-1.jpg
The 2nd version was from the MW Dublin style. As you can see, the hair has less detail and is darker. The eyes are different too. Also, MW Dublin seemed to have used less shading on the characters. It would seem that most of the Murakamimi, Zamora, Lodge episodes were done with this studio, although I need a fact check on that.

Do you have any idea why there were two studios doing the episodes?

[oldmanwinters]

I think it was pretty common in those days for different studios to handle the animation, especially on shows like TMNT that had a ton of episodes per season. Even with great shows like Batman: The Animated Series, there were various studios that handled the animation process itself, you you can tell distinct differences.

By the way, here are some examples of the rubbery-like nature of the animation. As you can see, both character movement and facial expressions often used some bizzare looking still frames to convey the sense of motion.

The Grybyx
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/Donshellwacked2.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/Donshellwacked4.jpg
Donatello gets shell-wacked!

Mike's Birthday:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/splintertwisted3.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/splintertwisted.jpg
That is one evil and twisted looking Splinter!

Season 4's "Plan 6 from Outer Space"
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/EgyptianApril.jpg
What's April doing, the Egyptian (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/comics/mirage/volume01/32/32.htm)?

Green With Jealousy
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/tightsqueeze.jpg
Donatello: "For crying out loud, Leonardo, wait your turn in line!"

My personal favorite "Cowabunga, Shredhead"'s Ninja Bunnies:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/ninjabunnies.jpg

[Sage Ninja]

Oh God I love the look on Splinter's face in that last pick. He looks the most normal but he has the most startled WTF look on his out of the five of them. You notice the other turtles look more angry/annoyed than startled for some weird reason. :ohwell:

Imagine what they all must have thought in that one instant when they saw Shredder in their door way :o They must have had a moment of "aahhhh we are so screwed" go through their heads, before they reacted. I mean wouldn't have stopped your heart if your worst enemy suddenly just showed up in your very secret home so casually.

[oldmanwinters]

Splinter can certainly be one moody rat!

[Sage Ninja]

A little observation I've made with the animation where it is more simplified and the characters move in a more rubbery way, they often make April move in a very suggestive and provactive way. Has any one noticed this?

Like in the pic where she is "walking like in Egyptian" it looks a little...ah, sexual :ohwell:

I believe that in another episode with this sort of rubbery movement animation "Invasion of the turtle Snatchers" they have a scene where April is trying to persuade Mr. Thomson to give her another chance, and it looks like she is showing off her curves dancing for him :o