Very sad episode of TMNT [Archive] - The Technodrome Forums

Jo Dawn

03-07-2007, 08:09 PM

I dont think it was too far, i think it was brilliant. Lots of action, emotion and tragedy...

one of the things i hate about FF..they lost the emotional element...

Exactly! I don't think it went too far, either. And 'brilliant' is the exact word I would have used, also.

Actually, I would have gone a bit more indepth with it all. I think it deserved a mulit-episode run, instead of Leo's (which I didn't even bother watching).

Sooooo many things they could have gone into in SAINW.

Raven

03-08-2007, 01:51 AM

This has to be one of my all time favorite episodes from the series hands down. It went into a direction we havent seen in the comics for years! It was handled so well that it really dissappoints me to see a episode like this when put up with the rest of what they did.

I really wish we could see more like this.......but I wont hold my breath:ohwell:

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-08-2007, 02:16 AM

03-08-2007, 03:37 AM

*nods* Yes! Leo's was fine, me thinks, but I would have loved SAINW to be a two parter, and Mike and Raph having something happen which was pretty tradgic. Well, if I think about it, Mike's episode was fine, but I definately think Raph could have gotten something better than just racing around on a giant motercycle (I was sort of groaning when Raph said "Race with honor" in his episode. Definately not my favorite line there...).

But yes! SAINW was a masterpiece of modern cartoons. Some things didn't make sense when we look back on it in terms of death and such (Karai springs to mind here), but I personally think it is one of the best episodes the 2k3 series has thrown at us. Very deep, emotive, and all done on 4Kids TV :)

TheShowstoppa

03-08-2007, 03:58 AM

Everytime I watch this episode, I think back to when I had my mom tape it for me before I came home from work one day. She looked at me (and she has been watching TMNT with me off and on for years now) and said that it was the saddest episode that she has ever seen. She sat down and watched it 3 more times. She loves that episode... and I do too. It definitely is one of the finer moments of TMNT history for me. I wish the Lost Season could have been aired here in the states because I believe a lot of them could have had the same impact on the fans as this episode did. I patiently await OUR release of TLS. I refuse to buy the Austrailian DVD because it does not have the Ninja Tribunal episode.

AquaParade

03-08-2007, 08:53 AM

Definitley my favorit 2k3 episode. One of my complaints about the show in another thread was that this was only a one parter. Anyone think Lost season episodes might hold up to this?

Buslady

03-08-2007, 09:34 AM

Exactly! I don't think it went too far, either. And 'brilliant' is the exact word I would have used, also.

Actually, I would have gone a bit more indepth with it all. I think it deserved a mulit-episode run, instead of Leo's (which I didn't even bother watching).

Sooooo many things they could have gone into in SAINW.

Is it me or did mike and raph get jypped with their solo eps and Leo & Don got the best.
SAINW should have been at least a 2 part ep. More depth, maybe what happened after Don dissapered...flashbacks..how Mike lost his arm, Raph and his eye...and Leo's blindness. How'd it all happen...they could have done it in 2 eps...3 eps even better more detail...

MAESTAS

03-08-2007, 03:59 PM

Can anyone post up some links to all the SAINW episodes? I would like to watch them all.

Jon

03-08-2007, 04:48 PM

Can anyone post up some links to all the SAINW episodes? I would like to watch them all.

Haven't checked for the episodes on YouTube, but the titles for the 5-ep. 'Space/Time' story-arc with SAINW are--

"Reality Check"
"Across the Universe"
"Same As It Never Was"
"The Real World" Parts 1 & 2

Warhorse

03-08-2007, 05:48 PM

Geez. I can't believe everyone likes that episode. I hate it and never want to watch it again.

triplexxx

03-08-2007, 06:21 PM

Geez. I can't believe everyone likes that episode. I hate it and never want to watch it again.
I'm with you on that one, I never minded TMNT being darker than before, but they had to draw the line somewhere. Had the turtles not been killed, this episode would've been a gem to me.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-08-2007, 06:31 PM

I'm with you on that one, I never minded TMNT being darker than before, but they had to draw the line somewhere. Had the turtles not been killed, this episode would've been a gem to me.

If the Turtles hadn't died, this episode would have been some pre->> crap.

triplexxx

03-08-2007, 06:32 PM

If the Turtles hadn't died, this episode would have been some pre->> crap.
In that case, the idea should never have been proposed in the first place. Sorry for being touchy, but this concept just happens to break the rules in my book when it comes to TMNT; thankfully I don't have too many rules.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-08-2007, 06:53 PM

In that case, the idea should never have been proposed in the first place. Sorry for being touchy, but this concept just happens to break the rules in my book when it comes to TMNT; thankfully I don't have too many rules.

Well, not every ending has to be happy, this episode proved that.

Plus with these kinda scenarios, writters just get more freedom to go crazy.

*see Gargoyles episode: Future Tense.

poobone

03-08-2007, 07:04 PM

i'm confused. so the turtles die? Well what the hell ever happened to continuity?

Also, is there like a different part for each turtle? Do they each die in their own episode or what? I'm lost (as you can tell I've not seen these episodes yet)

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-08-2007, 07:14 PM

It was a alternate reality.

Warhorse

03-08-2007, 07:20 PM

In that case, the idea should never have been proposed in the first place. Sorry for being touchy, but this concept just happens to break the rules in my book when it comes to TMNT; thankfully I don't have too many rules.

Agree with you here, that this episode never should have been proposed. And I cant believe all the people on here who seem to relish in watching the Turtles die! What is the matter with you all!:sick:

Jon

03-08-2007, 07:21 PM

Well, Poobone

As was said, it's an alternate reality (the "possible future" routine).

In this case, having Don 'missing' for decades (sent through time). And when he 'returns', he finds the world (and his family & friends) in an awful shape.

Masked Ninja

03-08-2007, 10:08 PM

I liked it because it had genuine emotion. And it was awesome seeing Mikey in serious mode. And the animation was excellent (caught them doing some things on ones :O). And they were pushing the limits of what can be shown on Saturday morning TV. All winning characteristics in my book.

I only wish that Don had appeared more shaken by it in later episodes. Though his reaction to seeing his brothers in the last episode of the arc was decent. (especially their "...the heck?" reactions to his spontaneous hug :trazz: )

Yeah, it's a sad episode... but I loved it anyway. Very few cartoons nowadays can get more than a smile out of me, and when Mikey took Don to the park I was getting all misty. Nice writing... and yes, quite a lot like Future Tense (which I've only seen clips of... really want to see the whole thing).

Roseangelo

03-08-2007, 10:18 PM

I was visiting a friend the weekend this episode first aired. A friend who is NOT a TMNT fan, but sat there with me watching it anyways. So the only episode of TMNT that she's seen is also the most depressing episode, and of course when it was over I was in shock and near tears because everyone was dead.

But yeah, one of my favorite episodes. I love serious Mikey.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-08-2007, 11:36 PM

Agree with you here, that this episode never should have been proposed. And I cant believe all the people on here who seem to relish in watching the Turtles die! What is the matter with you all!:sick:

It was not the fact that the TMNT died, I'd be devestated if that happend in the real continuity, it was the darkness, intensity, and emotion. It was one of those episodes that took it there, and, hopefully, scarred little children that watched that Saturday morning.

Ralphmacchio

03-09-2007, 12:02 AM

It was not the fact that the TMNT died, I'd be devestated if that happend in the real continuity, it was the darkness, intensity, and emotion. It was one of those episodes that took it there, and, hopefully, scarred little children that watched that Saturday morning.
So, this show is in the business of scarring little children? how does stewie say"That sounds so deliciously evil".

mikey2007

03-09-2007, 12:19 AM

i loved the episode, it was the best of the 4 alternate realities, it really gave you a different look at the 4 turtles and you gotta love the serious mikey. none of us want to see the turtles die, but come on, its not like they actually died

triplexxx

03-09-2007, 01:24 AM

none of us want to see the turtles die, but come on, its not like they actually died
I guess you got a point:
I mean, technically, they did die, but their deaths were "undone" by Donatello simply returning to the present. I mean, the whole reason that future ocurred in the first place was because Donatello was sent 30 years ahead in the future. Technically, he was still in his own world, just that he "hadn't been there" for the previous 30 years: hence the other turtles fall apart, stop helping the world, and the world turns to total chaos.
After defeating Shredder, he went back to the present and immediately reunited with his family, which automatically eliminated the possibilty of that future "ever actually ocurring" hence the title "Same As It Never Was".

*This "alternate reality" was really just an "unforeseen future of the real world".

*This exact same thing happened in the movie "Jumanji".

(This space-time continum stuff; confusing, ain't it?)

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-09-2007, 02:25 AM

I guess you got a point:
I mean, technically, they did die, but their deaths were "undone" by Donatello simply returning to the present. I mean, the whole reason that future ocurred in the first place was because Donatello was sent 30 years ahead in the future. Technically, he was still in his own world, just that he "hadn't been there" for the previous 30 years: hence the other turtles fall apart, stop helping the world, and the world turns to total chaos.
After defeating Shredder, he went back to the present and immediately reunited with his family, which automatically eliminated the possibilty of that future "ever actually ocurring" hence the title "Same As It Never Was".

*This "alternate reality" was really just an "unforeseen future of the real world".

*This exact same thing happened in the movie "Jumanji".

(This space-time continum stuff; confusing, ain't it?)

Well not neccesarily.

In the X-Men comics, despite the fact that the X-Men had stopped the assasination of Senator Kelly, the events of the the horrible futuristic Days of Future Past still happend.

Or in Gargoyles. When Goliath was transported back in time along with Xanatos, Fox, and Demona with the Pheonix Gate, he tries to get the younger, slightly more innocent, Demona to remain a good guy. But that proved futile seeing as how Demona remembered everything and still remained twisted.

Or when Goliath tried to save Griff from dying back in World War 2, eventually Goliath had no choice but to bring him into the present since he was destined to die that night no matter how many times Goliath saved him.

So in some cases, future events can't be changed. But SAINW was more of an alternate reality type scenario. Rather than a futuristic one(because if it was the future, don't you think Mikey, Raph, and Leo would have remembered Ultimate Draco transporting them accross dimensions?)

triplexxx

03-09-2007, 02:49 AM

Then I guess that reinstates my grounds for hating this episode. Cause a Raphael, a Leonardo, and a Michaelangelo from an alternate universe are still a real Raphael, a real Leonardo, and a real Michaelangelo to me.

Rooish

03-09-2007, 08:50 AM

I think some people like being depressed. That's what kept so many people into Buffy. ;)

But anyway, it helps us feel all grown up when the show we watch has death and violence in it.

Jo Dawn

03-09-2007, 08:58 AM

I liked it because it had genuine emotion. And it was awesome seeing Mikey in serious mode. And the animation was excellent (caught them doing some things on ones :O). And they were pushing the limits of what can be shown on Saturday morning TV. All winning characteristics in my book.

Agreed.

I only wish that Don had appeared more shaken by it in later episodes. Though his reaction to seeing his brothers in the last episode of the arc was decent. (especially their "...the heck?" reactions to his spontaneous hug :trazz: )

Doubly agreed. They neeeeed to have more continuity in an emotional sense.

Yeah, it's a sad episode... but I loved it anyway. Very few cartoons nowadays can get more than a smile out of me, and when Mikey took Don to the park I was getting all misty. Nice writing... and yes, quite a lot like Future Tense (which I've only seen clips of... really want to see the whole thing).

Which ep is this? Have I missed this one?

kerfootw

03-09-2007, 10:12 AM

Well not neccesarily.

In the X-Men comics, despite the fact that the X-Men had stopped the assasination of Senator Kelly, the events of the the horrible futuristic Days of Future Past still happend.

Or in Gargoyles. When Goliath was transported back in time along with Xanatos, Fox, and Demona with the Pheonix Gate, he tries to get the younger, slightly more innocent, Demona to remain a good guy. But that proved futile seeing as how Demona remembered everything and still remained twisted.

Or when Goliath tried to save Griff from dying back in World War 2, eventually Goliath had no choice but to bring him into the present since he was destined to die that night no matter how many times Goliath saved him.

So in some cases, future events can't be changed. But SAINW was more of an alternate reality type scenario. Rather than a futuristic one(because if it was the future, don't you think Mikey, Raph, and Leo would have remembered Ultimate Draco transporting them accross dimensions?)

Don't forget "Future Tense." Best episode possibly of any show ever!

Masked Ninja

03-09-2007, 11:23 AM

Which ep is this? Have I missed this one?It's that episode of Gargoyles where Goliath goes to the future when Xanatos has taken over the world and achieved immortality (or so they tell him). I've only seen a couple clips that I could glean from the internet, and I've read the synopsis to fill in the gaps. While SAINW doesn't have a betrayal factor like Future Tense did, there's character death, both past and in the actual episode... and Brooklyn greets Goliath much the same way Mikey did Don... except Mikey let Don defend himself against the "you abandoned us!" claim while Brook just threw a punch. :P

Also:
Mikey: "We were a team! Without you, it just didn't work. Guess we really needed that level head of yours."
Brooklyn: "[You] abandoned us forty years ago! Without you we were no match for Xanatos."

I think that's cool, and it's why I want to see the whole episode one day. :)

Anyways, I'm kinda puzzled that people didn't like SAINW. I thought it was a daring story choice and let the tone be something other than the standard Saturday morning "there'll be a happy ending eventually!" fare. I liked the bittersweet tone of the 2k3 series in general, because life's like that. Sometimes good stuff happens, but sometimes life just sucks and you have to press on. If one of the Turtles HAD died for real, yeah... I would have been upset. But they didn't, so qué será será... Only real complaint I have, like others, is that it was a little too much crammed into one episode, making the pace too fast. A two-parter would have been perfect.

And... I liked having the little "oh no" leaps in my stomach when things happened in later episodes that reminded me of SAINW. Like in "Prodigal Son"... Of course the way the actual storyline played out, SAINW could never happen exactly as it did. But what if some of it came to pass? I kinda would have liked to see them address this.

... *throws an egg at Fast Forward* :tgrumble:

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-09-2007, 12:43 PM

Don't forget "Future Tense." Best episode possibly of any show ever!

Future Tense was an illusion created by Puck to get the Pheonix Gate from Goliath.

Sorry if I just spoiled it.

Then I guess that reinstates my grounds for hating this episode. Cause a Raphael, a Leonardo, and a Michaelangelo from an alternate universe are still a real Raphael, a real Leonardo, and a real Michaelangelo to me.

There just A Mikey, Raph, and Leo. Not THE Mikey, Don, and Leo we all know and love.

Besides, at least they went down as heroes.

triplexxx

03-09-2007, 01:01 PM

There just A Mikey, Raph, and Leo. Not THE Mikey, Don, and Leo we all know and love.

Besides, at least they went down as heroes.
Oh, so just because these three are from a different universe than the real ones and still have the same personalities (yes, the real Michaelangelo CAN be serious if circumstances call for it), they're not loved? How considerate.

Though I admit, that last thing there is something to be proud of.

MAESTAS

03-09-2007, 01:05 PM

I thought SAINW was a great episode because it was like a dream. Mikey had one arm and he was the only one still fighting the bad guys. Leo was blind and only had one of his swords. Raph was missing an eye and both his sais. Leo and Raph were at war with each other. And it was a crazy sad episode that showed alot of emotion.

Spawn Guy

03-09-2007, 01:21 PM

Oh, so just because these three are from a different universe than the real ones and still have the same personalities (yes, the real Michaelangelo CAN be serious if circumstances call for it), they're not loved? How considerate.

Though I admit, that last thing there is something to be proud of.

Then shouldn't we be grateful that the brothers from Don's reality are still alive and together?

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-09-2007, 01:59 PM

Then shouldn't we be grateful that the brothers from Don's reality are still alive and together?

Quoted for Truth.

This episode justshowed the importance of the brothers staying together, and if one of thems gone, the family falls apart.

Cure

03-09-2007, 02:06 PM

This episode is just way too cliche for me. Dystopian future, evil tyrant, everyone dies, blah, blah, blah. There were episodes in 2k3 that were WAY better than this one.

triplexxx

03-09-2007, 02:48 PM

poobone

03-09-2007, 03:24 PM

Warhorse

03-09-2007, 05:49 PM

you sound pretty emo.

Hey, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is a civilized forum here where we dont call eachother names. Everyone has the right to their opinions without being flamed for it. I think your post is a bit uncalled for.

With that aside, about ideas with dark episodes. Why not have one where Angel is attacked or, worse, and the Turtles come to grips with how cruel humans really can be to eachother.

Or Casey is wrongfully accused of a crime and sent to prison, and while he is trying to survive that nightmare, April and the Turtles are trying to investigate the truth about that crime. (So I watch Law & Order, so sue me. Still, they have ideas that can be applied to a Saturday moring cartoon.)

Cure

03-11-2007, 05:38 PM

Personally, I think everything on television is cliche these days.
All the good, original ideas that could be thought up, have been thought up.
Any good ideas that producers, directors, etc. can come up with these days in some way or another draw upon previous ideas.
I'm pretty used to it, so "cliche" doesn't really bother me, just as long as the material appeals to my interest.

There's a difference between cliche and been done before. Cliche means it's OVERLY done. So much in fact, it's boring and predictable. Just cause somethin's been done before doesn't automatically make it cliche.

Spawn Guy

03-11-2007, 06:00 PM

So did you see all three alternate future turtles kicking the bucket like that?

Cure

03-11-2007, 07:41 PM

So did you see all three alternate future turtles kicking the bucket like that?

To be completely honest, I thought only like one of them would die, but wasn't surprised when the others did, too.

Hazel-rah

04-25-2007, 10:04 PM

Future Tense was an illusion created by Puck to get the Pheonix Gate from Goliath.

But at the end Goliath asks Puck if this was all a trick and Puck leaves Goliath with a maybe it was or maybe it's not answer.

Cassidy

04-25-2007, 10:43 PM

SAINW should have been at least a 2 part ep. More depth, maybe what happened after Don dissapered...flashbacks..how Mike lost his arm, Raph and his eye...and Leo's blindness. How'd it all happen...they could have done it in 2 eps...3 eps even better more detail...
Oooooo... yes, that would have been so nice.

Anyway, I saw SAINW as sort of a foreshadowing of things to come. They'd have to make great sacrifices to beat the Shredder.

If not for the Utroms, they would have died trying to keep the Shredder from reaching his objective in the present day. Thank goodness for "in the nick of time stasis fields."

Tinuvielsdreams

04-26-2007, 07:23 AM

Yep aren't stasis fields convienent

ninjitsu_magic_47

04-26-2007, 09:09 AM

When I first watched SAINW I was surprised, and I did sorta cry when the turtles (especially Mikey) died. Speaking of Mikey, I found the thought of him being so serious a littel scary. And it seemed to me that Mikey, not Leo was in charge a little bit.

Revan

04-26-2007, 09:46 AM

I love the SAINW version of mike. He has matured and is quite dark and serious. We get to see that famous quickness and agility. He had to mature to take care of himself because they are all on their own.

wyze2099

04-26-2007, 10:50 AM

I thought SAINW was a great episode. It was definitely along the lines of the aforementioned "Future Tense" episode of Gargoyles, as well as the "Over the Edge" episode of The New Batman Adventures (though that wasn't so much a possible future as ... uh, I'll refrain from spoiling it for anyone who hasn't seen it, but the entire ep is on Youtube). Heck, DuckTales and Darkwing Duck each had a similar episode premise.

I definitely don't relish the idea of the main characters dying; I've cared about them for years. But it's because I care that the worst-case scenario has so much impact. This is what could happen if something goes wrong for the heroes. If the bad guys had their way, this is how messed up the world could get. This is an illustration of the stakes under which they fight, and why the heroes are needed.

As others have said, I really wish the episode could have been a two-parter to really go into the nuts and bolts of the dystopian future, though I can see why one episode would be the most they could get away with in a Saturday Morning cartoon. A two-parter's pacing might cause the writers to have to address some of the more disturbing aspects of the new world order that the single episode could comfortably skim.

And some of the ways the Turtles died seemed really dubious, as others have pointed out, as if they were in a hurry to have the three future Turtles die in the same episode. Perhaps the two-parter could have been used to at least extend the fight scenes so that when each one went down, there was definite buildup.

And I'd liked to have seen more ramifications of Don's visit to this future beyond the (well-executed) hug. Did he ever tell his family about it? Did he have nightmares about it afterward (the entire time he was there, he saw plenty of things he'd can't easily unsee)? Fanfic writers could have a field day with the consequences.

So yeah, I had a few gripes with it, but I seriously enjoyed the episode. If someone had told me before 2003 that a TMNT cartoon would do an episode like this, I'd have called that person a liar.

Spawn Guy

04-26-2007, 11:14 AM

You know what needs to be up on Youtube? Darkwing Duck.

VaughnMichael

04-26-2007, 11:21 AM

You know what needs to be up on Youtube? Darkwing Duck.
Or you could just buy the dvd box set like everyone else it's not even expensive.

Hero

04-26-2007, 11:24 AM

Bloomin good episode that. A more darker future that Fast Forward could have been like as opposed to Futurama lite.

===HERO

Jon

04-26-2007, 11:25 AM

Or you could just buy the dvd box set like everyone else it's not even expensive.

Yeah, and same can be said on Batman TAS/New Batman Adventures above. :D

Spawn Guy

04-26-2007, 11:44 AM

Or you could just buy the dvd box set like everyone else it's not even expensive.

When it comes out in the UK. Yeah.

VaughnMichael

04-26-2007, 11:53 AM

When it comes out in the UK. Yeah.
ZING!:lol: ;)

iris

04-26-2007, 12:10 PM

It's that episode of Gargoyles where Goliath goes to the future when Xanatos has taken over the world and achieved immortality (or so they tell him). I've only seen a couple clips that I could glean from the internet, and I've read the synopsis to fill in the gaps. While SAINW doesn't have a betrayal factor like Future Tense did, there's character death, both past and in the actual episode... and Brooklyn greets Goliath much the same way Mikey did Don... except Mikey let Don defend himself against the "you abandoned us!" claim while Brook just threw a punch. :P

Also:
Mikey: "We were a team! Without you, it just didn't work. Guess we really needed that level head of yours."
Brooklyn: "[You] abandoned us forty years ago! Without you we were no match for Xanatos."

I think that's cool, and it's why I want to see the whole episode one day. :)

Anyways, I'm kinda puzzled that people didn't like SAINW. I thought it was a daring story choice and let the tone be something other than the standard Saturday morning "there'll be a happy ending eventually!" fare. I liked the bittersweet tone of the 2k3 series in general, because life's like that. Sometimes good stuff happens, but sometimes life just sucks and you have to press on. If one of the Turtles HAD died for real, yeah... I would have been upset. But they didn't, so qué será será... Only real complaint I have, like others, is that it was a little too much crammed into one episode, making the pace too fast. A two-parter would have been perfect.

And... I liked having the little "oh no" leaps in my stomach when things happened in later episodes that reminded me of SAINW. Like in "Prodigal Son"... Of course the way the actual storyline played out, SAINW could never happen exactly as it did. But what if some of it came to pass? I kinda would have liked to see them address this.

... *throws an egg at Fast Forward* :tgrumble:
*catches egg* Hey, that's my breakfast! ;)

But otherwise, I agree with MN.

It doesn't matter if the story's been done. Show me a story that hasn't been done. It's Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces... human stories tend to be alike, because we tend to care about the same things through the ages. The more important part is that it was a good story. This was a very good episode.

Really this was like a five-parter (or was it more? I forget)... this was Don's part... and the point was to see Don struggle and learn something about himself (which I think each of the turtles did). They coulda made a whole movie out of this story arc.

Fledermaus

04-26-2007, 12:37 PM

Bloomin good episode that. A more darker future that Fast Forward could have been like as opposed to Futurama lite.

===HERO

Except that Futurama = 10x > >>. :oops:

(Translates as Futurama was a ten times better than fast forward. ;) )

Spitfire

04-26-2007, 12:57 PM

Replace sad with bad and you got it more accurate. I could go on and on about why this episode isn't that great. But I've done a million times before so I won't get into it.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

04-26-2007, 01:18 PM

Replace sad with bad and you got it more accurate. I could go on and on about why this episode isn't that great. But I've done a million times before so I won't get into it.

Thanks for sharring. :roll:

Swany

04-26-2007, 01:20 PM

That was a pretty good episode. I like the while 1984 thing "the shredder is always watching" "Big Brother is watching you" etc.

Cartoons shouldn't be this sad though.

Spitfire

04-26-2007, 01:42 PM

That was a pretty good episode. I like the while 1984 thing "the shredder is always watching" "Big Brother is watching you" etc.

Cartoons shouldn't be this sad though.

What was sad about it? Their deaths were so corny I laughed.

Revan

04-26-2007, 01:46 PM

Spitfire

04-26-2007, 01:53 PM

How they die wasn't as important as the idea that they die fighting Chrell. 22 mins isn't enough to show the 3 guys falling. The idea is, They defeat shredder at a price.

Broken record: This story should have been more than one ep.

Well not only that but their going for a dark story here and they have Karai run face first into a rocket and then get up and say some dialog before she dies.

You have any idea how stupid that was? She would be splattered all over the walls.

Plus check out Don, he had no time to react to any of the deaths. He gets there "Mikey has no arm oh well whatever" then "Splinter's dead, tear drop, lets go fight Shredder!" I don't about you but if my father died I'd be pretty upset. Then "Casey is dead" whatever he was only one of my best human friends. I mean it was just like Don was this emotionless shell. All his brothers die and he doesn't even notice Leo and Raph are dead. Watching your family die, your father is dead, and your friend too would be enough to give someone a mental breakdown and Don seems to get over it in 4 seconds.

On top of what I mentioned before. And Shredder's death was so lame. Am I watching TMNT or Dragon Ball Z? Leave the anime crap to the anime. I let it slide in TLS for the most part but even I have my limits.

Then when he gets back to his real time he hugs Mikey and Raph but they don't show him react to Splinter being alive. Ugh...

Bry

04-26-2007, 02:17 PM

Spitfire

04-26-2007, 02:19 PM

It's... a cartoon? :)

Which is exactly why they should have had her die another way. Or had them not show her body after the explosion. I'd even be okay if she didn't get up and talk after being hit with it.

Revan

04-26-2007, 03:02 PM

Which is exactly why they should have had her die another way. Or had them not show her body after the explosion. I'd even be okay if she didn't get up and talk after being hit with it.

I agree 100%. I'm just trying to justify the ep because I enjoyed watching it. It was something I had never thought of before which is why I found it quite entertaining.

Do we really know that Don did not mourn his father? I know the ep doesn't show it on screen but Don still could have been torn up off screen since eps are rarely in real time. I cannot confirm how much time went by from the time Ultimate Draco threw Don ahead with the septor to the time Chrell dies but I think it could have been days. Don could have even talked with Mike about his arm offscreen as well. Just my thoughts.

And if in fact Don did do these things off cam, the fact that they were not shown proves that the story should have been at least 44 mins as opposed to 22.

tilallr1

04-26-2007, 03:28 PM

Spawn Guy

04-26-2007, 03:35 PM

Leo was blind ?!? I never knew that. It makes sense now why Karai was able to beat him then.

Somehow I just know this is going to be debated over.

Anything I really had to say, good or bad, about the episode has been said, so...that's pretty much it. Very emotional, too fast, decent but not that bad, two parter etc.

iris

04-26-2007, 04:11 PM

Well not only that but their going for a dark story here and they have Karai run face first into a rocket and then get up and say some dialog before she dies.

You have any idea how stupid that was? She would be splattered all over the walls.

Plus check out Don, he had no time to react to any of the deaths. He gets there "Mikey has no arm oh well whatever" then "Splinter's dead, tear drop, lets go fight Shredder!" I don't about you but if my father died I'd be pretty upset. Then "Casey is dead" whatever he was only one of my best human friends. I mean it was just like Don was this emotionless shell. All his brothers die and he doesn't even notice Leo and Raph are dead. Watching your family die, your father is dead, and your friend too would be enough to give someone a mental breakdown and Don seems to get over it in 4 seconds.

On top of what I mentioned before. And Shredder's death was so lame. Am I watching TMNT or Dragon Ball Z? Leave the anime crap to the anime. I let it slide in TLS for the most part but even I have my limits.

Then when he gets back to his real time he hugs Mikey and Raph but they don't show him react to Splinter being alive. Ugh...
All the deaths and the reactions to them were as bad as they could have been without showing blood, killing blows, and total emotional breakdowns. Which aren't really things you can get away with -- all at once-- on a 22 minute show that's purportedly rated for seven-to-twelve-year-olds.

They did pretty freaking well with this episode, considering the constraints.

IMO, Don was in-character. He's pretty staid, overall. I could believe him just being more or less numb to everything for a while (esp. after seeing Splinter's grave) until he had time to process. :P

Spitfire

04-26-2007, 05:41 PM

All the deaths and the reactions to them were as bad as they could have been without showing blood, killing blows, and total emotional breakdowns. Which aren't really things you can get away with -- all at once-- on a 22 minute show that's purportedly rated for seven-to-twelve-year-olds.

Insane In The Membrane proves they could have done more.

But I love Dark stories.
Then watch "I'Monster" and "The Darkness With-In" Also "Bishop's Gambit" Where Bishop gets impaled at the end and if you pause it you can catch him running away with a hole in his back bleeding.

VaughnMichael

04-26-2007, 05:51 PM

Insane In The Membrane proves they could have done more.
Yeah well look at Insane as a gift from the gods because we wont be seeing anything that much like a horror movie in tv tmnt for a long time well not if the 4kids hire ups have anything to say about it.:ohwell:

iris

04-26-2007, 06:08 PM

Insane In The Membrane proves they could have done more.

"Insane in the Membrane" was censored off the air in the US and facilitated the decision to change format to Fast Forward and lose The Lost Season.

I wouldn't call that unequivocal proof.

I seem to recall that there was also a change in management or somesuch involved with censoring IITM, but who's to say SAINW would have made it to the air if they'd pushed more? Who's to say Ninja Time wouldn't have replaced Season 4? :P Well, I'm sure Someone could say, but the point is, SAINW was already pushing the envelope and we know what happened when that envelope finally fell off the table.

Spitfire

04-26-2007, 06:50 PM

Yeah well look at Insane as a gift from the gods because we wont be seeing anything that much like a horror movie in tv tmnt for a long time well not if the 4kids hire ups have anything to say about it.:ohwell:

Yeah but the episode was approved before that's why it was made and since SAINW aired before the network heads change the episode could have been more violent and approved.

If Insane was approved during season 4 when the show was going downhill then during season 3 it would have been approved and aired.

C.R.Ebi

04-26-2007, 07:04 PM

Leo was blind ?!? I never knew that. It makes sense now why Karai was able to beat him then.

Definitely, one of the greatest Turtles episodes ever. But I love Dark stories. As long as it ended with a happy ending. The bad guys were destroyed as well remember.

I would have to agree and disagree with you. I was glad that they started to show some of the darker side of TMNT and I'm good for the happy endings and all but i think it should stay a little unhappy. Like say something rally bad happed towards the end and then left a cliffhanger and then you had to wait a haul week for the good ending where you start to cry stuff like that But again I'm glad there starting to show the stuff how they had in the comics...Now if only they can show more so the little kids wont get scared ^^"

Tinuvielsdreams

04-26-2007, 07:12 PM

Yeah I agree it could have been a movie, they tried to tackle something huge!
It was dark and I am going to say suggestively violent (reading all the posts about Karai splatter)
They were kinda character explorations of sorts, they were all in their own element in a way but Donny in SAINW, that must have messed with his head.
I can see why the eppy is talked about so much among us but I wish they would have brought it up again later in the show.

Darkwing Duck (When there's trouble you call DW) Humming the theme since reading earlier posts

VaughnMichael

04-26-2007, 07:26 PM

Yeah but the episode was approved before that's why it was made and since SAINW aired before the network heads change the episode could have been more violent and approved.

If Insane was approved during season 4 when the show was going downhill then during season 3 it would have been approved and aired.
You know I like violence but then again I don't if that makes any sence.
Things don't have to be violent to be good all it takes is some times and good writting and SAINW would have been leeps and bounds better.
It's a great idea but like many things because of "the man" it can't come to completion.

Spitfire

04-27-2007, 02:16 AM

You know I like violence but then again I don't if that makes any sence.
Things don't have to be violent to be good all it takes is some times and good writting and SAINW would have been leeps and bounds better.
It's a great idea but like many things because of "the man" it can't come to completion.

Well not more violent but more psychological. Like showing Don's sadness. Which people mentioned them censoring as well. Which Insane also did very well on top of the violent aspect. Violence doesn't holds up when it has no bounds. Which is why I didn't like 300. All violence and no good story to wrap around it.