Pete hates the old toon? [Archive] - The Technodrome Forums

Brock

03-08-2007, 12:33 PM

Okay, I read around TMNT forums and stuff like that and I've read a few times that Peter Laird hated the old TMNT cartoon. Now, I can see why he might not like it, but I've never seen an actual source quote or whatever where Pete was like "Hand me an old 'toon DVD and I'll take a #2 on it" or whatever.

Anyone wanna point out a source for me so I can read Pete's views of the old 'toon for myself?

In the interview with him on the Volume 1: Attack of the Mousers DVD, Peter says (in regard to the old show):

"With the first animated series the emphasis was on humor and it was sort of like humor with a little bit of action, which is the exact opposite of how we used to do the comics, which was action with humor....

I liked the old show, I thought it was fun, the Turtles were always too puffy for me, too cutesy...

The Turtles don't walk around in the daytime, which they did quite a bit in the old series, drove me crazy..."

My impression is that that he does not hate the old series but believes that the current one is a superior product. If I come across any more quotes I'll post them.

triplexxx

03-08-2007, 01:11 PM

The old toon was not his vision of what the TMNT are. He described them as looking inflatable which they were.
He's entitled to his opinion like anyone else, but they weren't any fatter than their NT counterparts, except in animation mistakes, even if there were a lot.

kerfootw

03-08-2007, 04:49 PM

In the interview with him on the Volume 1: Attack of the Mousers DVD, Peter says (in regard to the old show):

"With the first animated series the emphasis was on humor and it was sort of like humor with a little bit of action, which is the exact opposite of how we used to do the comics, which was action with humor....

I liked the old show, I thought it was fun, the Turtles were always too puffy for me, too cutesy...

The Turtles don't walk around in the daytime, which they did quite a bit in the old series, drove me crazy..."

My impression is that that he does not hate the old series but believes that the current one is a superior product. If I come across any more quotes I'll post them.

He's right you know. Now if only I could make those bastards on the imdb get with it!

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-08-2007, 05:00 PM

He's right you know. Now if only I could make those bastards on the imdb get with it!

Dude don't bother. I wasted 3 days arguing with inbred, backwoods, retard about this on imdb. Never again.

Warhorse

03-08-2007, 05:28 PM

Dude don't bother. I wasted 3 days arguing with inbred, backwoods, retard about this on imdb. Never again.

You did? Who were you on imdb.

Rooish

03-08-2007, 05:36 PM

EDIT: Letters columns.

I'll actually have to start reading those. Thanks!

The letters are the best part of the comic. Pete rants, people get mad at him and insult Jim Lawson's art. Pure gold.

Buslady

03-08-2007, 09:32 PM

They can't take it that they have an artist who used to really nice work years ago, and now looks like he's drawing thumbnails instead of finished art.

ZariusTwo

03-08-2007, 10:27 PM

And of course I recall telling all of those critics to go hump themselves in the letters pages for being ungrateful brats who love to complain about everything.

AND he published them:lol:

Kendamu

03-08-2007, 11:29 PM

And of course I recall telling all of those critics to go hump themselves in the letters pages for being ungrateful brats who love to complain about everything.

AND he published them:lol:
I like Pete and I like the majority of what he does but that just put him on a whole new level of awesomeness for me.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-08-2007, 11:31 PM

You did? Who were you on imdb.

nickdesigns

And of course I recall telling all of those critics to go hump themselves in the letters pages for being ungrateful brats who love to complain about everything.

AND he published them

This I gotta read, which issue(s)

Kendamu

03-08-2007, 11:36 PM

That reminds me. I need to pack up my comic collection for this weekend at a friends' house. They'll love snagging a look at my new stash I've gotten since I last saw them. That, and it'll give me time to read the letters since they don't have cable and their computer is currently broken.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-09-2007, 02:28 AM

Kendamu

03-09-2007, 09:50 AM

No cable or internet?

How do they survive?
We spar, do randori, watch DVDs, play video games, go somewhere else, run on walls, climb stuff, make weapons, throw spears, read comics, sleep, etc.

kerfootw

03-09-2007, 10:06 AM

nickdesigns

This I gotta read, which issue(s)

Cool! Who were you on tv.com (if you were I mean)? I had the same name.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-09-2007, 12:47 PM

Cool! Who were you on tv.com (if you were I mean)? I had the same name.

Are you following me online?

Anyways, I'm Splinters_pupil.

Ratchet

03-09-2007, 01:13 PM

The letters are the best part of the comic. Pete rants, people get mad at him and insult Jim Lawson's art. Pure gold.

I actually find the TMNT and Tales letters columns to be some of the best reading I have to look forward to each month (outside of the comic itself of course!). There was a time there where the political bombardment was intense! It's a very different forum to what you see in other comics... I don't think I've seen Marvel or DC run letters like the ones in the TMNT books in... like... wellll... EVER!

Mr._Mutant_Man

03-09-2007, 02:15 PM

I don't see how he could hate the old cartoon, since it led to him making a load of money and increased the popularity of the TMNT like 10 times over.

kerfootw

03-10-2007, 06:48 PM

Are you following me online?

Anyways, I'm Splinters_pupil.

I KNEW it! And boy wouldn't that be something, me being a stalker without knowing myself. Naw, I just really like to talk online about entertainment and matters like these.

kerfootw

03-10-2007, 06:56 PM

I don't see how he could hate the old cartoon, since it led to him making a load of money and increased the popularity of the TMNT like 10 times over.

Yeah well, it's just not his vision. After you give someone the reins to your stuff; it has a good run; and then you take over it five or so years later and display how it was originally envisioned and people are so blind by their nostalgic (I HATE nostalgia!) childhood days that they hate you, don't give it a chance, or see it for what it really is; you'd be a little upset yourself. I bet the same thing would happen if "The Batman" and "Batman: The Animated Series" switched airdates...and that would be a HUGE pisser!!!!
That's why most people say the new series sucks. Nostalgia.
It just had the rotten luck of being made in the wrong decade. I still bet we'd be right at home watching the new series in the same block as Batman TAS and Gargoyles if it and the old series switched airdates. Still, I can't complain seeing as how I remember how big an old series fan I was back then, I almost never gave the new series a shot myself. I'm glad that didn't happen though.

P.S. There's a thread about this on the imdb where all sorts of Pete haters and defenders continue their war (themanwhowouldberaph and myself are there as well), you can help the fight keep brewing there by whichever side you choose if you want.

P.S.S. Are you sure he got money from the old series's success? He and Kevin just sold their rights to Fred Wold and co. I don't recall him getting anything out of it. But if he did, please tell me.

SpiderHulkThing

03-10-2007, 07:36 PM

Yeah well, it's just not his vision. After you give someone the reins to your stuff; it has a good run; and then you take over it five or so years later and display how it was originally envisioned and people are so blind by their nostalgic (I HATE nostalgia!) childhood days that they hate you, don't give it a chance, or see it for what it really is; you'd be a little upset yourself. I bet the same thing would happen if "The Batman" and "Batman: The Animated Series" switched airdates...and that would be a HUGE pisser!!!!
That's why most people say the new series sucks. Nostalgia.
It just had the rotten luck of being made in the wrong decade. I still bet we'd be right at home watching the new series in the same block as Batman TAS and Gargoyles if it and the old series switched airdates. Still, I can't complain seeing as how I remember how big an old series fan I was back then, I almost never gave the new series a shot myself. I'm glad that didn't happen though.

Really bro, I think most of the viewers from the old show just grew out of cartoons more than just not give it a chance. I don't know. I'll admit at first I was worried about the new show b/c it was different. However, I was also knowledgable enough to know that the oringinal cartoon varied strongly from the comics. I feel that any true TMNT fan would have at least some knowledge in the comics and shouldn't have a fair argumentative basis if not. yeah, the stuff I didn't like about the new show was because of nostalgia, but I gave it a chance and I like the new show better than the old one now. I still love the old show cause I grew up with it, but the new show is definitly more sophisticated and for a more general widespread audience than the old one. I'm glad the new series came to be and I think they nailed it.

One thing though, the old series Opening, the Theme song and the animation, will always rule over the new cartoon. That's the one thing that the old show will always have over the new one. 1,2,3, 4 turtles...come on. I finally got over that and got used to it, but then the FF series came to be and that is the worst opening. And I really hope that Fast Forward was not part of Laird's vision.

Vegita-San

03-10-2007, 07:37 PM

They can't take it that they have an artist who used to really nice work years ago, and now looks like he's drawing thumbnails instead of finished art.

Jims a great guy in person, very personable and friendly. But I've gotta say, that while I love how his turtles and Splinter look, I absolutely, positively hate his Humans. I prefer more of a realism sense in art, which is why I'm more accustomed to, say, a DBZ Human drawing style...

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-10-2007, 07:52 PM

One thing though, the old series Opening, the Theme song and the animation, will always rule over the new cartoon. That's the one thing that the old show will always have over the new one. 1,2,3, 4 turtles...come on. I finally got over that and got used to it, but then the FF series came to be and that is the worst opening. And I really hope that Fast Forward was not part of Laird's vision.

Waitaminute, you think the old show's animation was better than the new show's.

Really?

Really?

kerfootw

03-10-2007, 08:00 PM

I have to agree with themanwhowouldberaph on that one. Although it was very pretty a lot, you'd have to be 2 years old not to note the numerous (and I mean numerous) obvious animation errors and such, it was a little embarrasing.
As for the music, I'll give it to them but you gotta agree, this is the 21st century, no one can make good music anymore. Still, the music in the new series is FAR from dreadful.

SpiderHulkThing

03-10-2007, 09:10 PM

Waitaminute, you think the old show's animation was better than the new show's.

Really?

Really?

i meant the animiation of the opening theme. The animation in the opening them rocked, wish they would have made them dark like that. But I thought the first season was animated pretty good. I liked the turtles more when they didn't look so bubbly. There are certain things I liked about the old animation better and certain things I like about the new episodes better.

One thing I know is though, is the old toon came out when I was four. I think I wouldn't have liked the new series as much as I do now then b/c it would have been harder to follow at 4. The older show however was directed more towards kids anyway so I liked it a lot then as did most kids. But the new show is better for me to watch now than the old one b/c it just more mature than the old show. So I'm glad it panned out like it did. The old show was good to grow up with and the newer stuff is better to enjoy at an older age.

Jester

03-10-2007, 09:14 PM

kerfootw

03-10-2007, 11:58 PM

i meant the animiation of the opening theme. The animation in the opening them rocked, wish they would have made them dark like that. But I thought the first season was animated pretty good. I liked the turtles more when they didn't look so bubbly. There are certain things I liked about the old animation better and certain things I like about the new episodes better.

One thing I know is though, is the old toon came out when I was four. I think I wouldn't have liked the new series as much as I do now then b/c it would have been harder to follow at 4. The older show however was directed more towards kids anyway so I liked it a lot then as did most kids. But the new show is better for me to watch now than the old one b/c it just more mature than the old show. So I'm glad it panned out like it did. The old show was good to grow up with and the newer stuff is better to enjoy at an older age.

Did your age keep you from enjoying Batman TAS and Gargoyles? Their quality was the same if not better than the new series and the only way someone can prove that the new series wouldn't be as successful as the old one is if one could go back in time and switch the airdates of the series's.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-11-2007, 12:02 AM

Did your age keep you from enjoying Batman TAS and Gargoyles? Their quality was the same if not better than the new series and the only way someone can prove that the new series wouldn't be as successful as the old one is if one could go back in time and switch the airdates of the series's.

I was raised on Batman and Gargoyles. I would have loved this series back when I was a kid.

oldshreddersgirl

03-11-2007, 03:35 AM

I can understand why some on this board would say they perfer the new TMNT rather than the older i mean, lets be honest; in some ways lookswise, storywise and character wise it makes the older TMNT look cheap and out of date, and some might say stupid. But i like the older ones because they where uncomplicated, fun, and just funny as hell to watch! But i am glad to see though in watching a few of the newer episodes with my nephew that the characters have not lost too much of their sense of humor

Mandi-chan

03-11-2007, 08:04 AM

nickdesigns

Oh wow, I never would have guessed! Hey Nick!

I'm celestial_moongoddess on IMDB.

Those jerks that bash Peter Laird over there are morons, and I am sorry to say that but I honestly feel that's true.

They hate him because he doesn't love and worship the old toon like they think he should, and then won't admit that's why they despise the man by arguing instead that he hates the old toon (even though they have NO evidence to prove it while the rest of us have PLENTY of evidence to prove that he does indeed like the old toon) so thus he's an ass and so they hate him.

I'm dropping the argument over there because those of us who like and respect Mr. Laird are just repeating ourselves. No matter how much evidence we have that slams their sorry little bash-fest, they'll continue to ignore it and bitch away.

It's dull.

kerfootw

03-11-2007, 08:20 AM

Hi celestial. It's me billykerfoot (you can also find me on the 4Kids forums as william and tv.com as kerfootw, my same name here). Fancy running into you, I didn't know you had that many posts.

Warhorse

03-11-2007, 09:44 AM

Mandi-chan

03-11-2007, 09:54 AM

Hi celestial moongoddess, nickdesigns and bikerfoot. I'm the half nim whit on the IMdb boards by the name of tammytkspr. I have conflicting issues with each of the Turtle mediums, minus the Next Mutation. I never got a chance to watch that one.

Hey guys, I wonder how many of us IMDB goers are here?

Anyway, The Next Mutation isn't worth your time...trust me.

I wasted money to get the UK dvd and it was just....reeeallly bad to me. I only sat through the first arc and then haven't looked back (kinda like FF, except I couldn't stand more than one ep of that!).

Vegita-San

03-11-2007, 10:03 AM

Which one? the first 2 opening themes from TMNT (The ones before Red Sky) had awesome animation.

And aside from all the animation mistakes, the original toon had some good animation...depending on the episode.

Check out Turtles on Trial for those who want to see how good the old show could have been with constant good animation and story. They had that 'smooth movement' animation without it looking cheap (ala fast forward style) and very few, if any mistakes. It only had one scene that was accidentally repeated, probably because budget ran out, or someone goofed(April coming out of channel 6 twice with her camera)

SpiderHulkThing

03-11-2007, 12:42 PM

Did your age keep you from enjoying Batman TAS and Gargoyles? Their quality was the same if not better than the new series and the only way someone can prove that the new series wouldn't be as successful as the old one is if one could go back in time and switch the airdates of the series's.

I was probably 9 or 10 when i started watching those. I was talking about when I was 4 through say 7 or 8 with the old cartoon.

Spitfire

03-11-2007, 12:49 PM

I got more of an impression that Pete hated the Archie series. And I know their finishing it up under Mirage but he's not really doing it.

And the quality of Batman TAS is way above almost every other animated series of the 90's. It had a movie score, profession voice actors who were acting like they were filming live action not just recording voice and had an amazing animation style. Not to mention the darkest cartoon storylines I've ever seen in a kids show. I remember on the commentary for a few episodes they would comment on multiple scenes saying "I'm surprised we got away with that" It followed the comics so closely, as well as touching to a new audience. You could turn it on at any episode and not be lost. You were watching Batman no doubt in your mind. They don't even have Batman anywhere in the opening title, and they don't need to.

ZariusTwo

03-11-2007, 02:25 PM

They hate him because he doesn't love and worship the old toon like they think he should, and then won't admit that's why they despise the man by arguing instead that he hates the old toon (even though they have NO evidence to prove it while the rest of us have PLENTY of evidence to prove that he does indeed like the old toon) so thus he's an ass and so they hate him.

Yeah, well the morons who bash him and Lawson over here and in the comics are'nt much different. There's a strong underlining resentment towards Laird for allegedly "raping characters" HE co-created and is'nt obligated to preserve for their selfish ungrateful interests, or for Lawson's alleged "bad art", which they harrased Pete with daily only for it to continue regardless.

Of course what you bring up is a far worse example of reasons to dislike the guy. Given he's said time and again he does'nt hate the original cartoon, but that sadly does'nt exempt him from fans looking for other reasons to spit in his face for keeping the franchise alive.

It's unfair on both levels.

As for the argument the animation of the original is better than the new series...that REALLY depends on which studio is animating both, the first five parts of the series ARE arguably better animated. Then there's a good degree of animation that was inflexable during seasons two and three that went from superior to dogier variations. The new series has often went from stilted, to flat, to awe inspiring at times. Both shows are'nt really better than the other in terms of CONSISTENT animation, but when it comes to originality and humour, the original aces the new series. It's perfectly easy to say this whilst still being a fan of the current series also, so it's not like I'm one of those "original rulez because it's the original" people, the original rules because it just is objectivly quicker, more action filled, and more fun. And that's something Pete himself described perfectly

I can understand why some on this board would say they perfer the new TMNT rather than the older i mean, lets be honest; in some ways lookswise, storywise and character wise it makes the older TMNT look cheap and out of date, and some might say stupid.

Ha. I disagree, and I'm being perfectly honest. How can a show look stupid years later when it treated itself like a cartoon, and a funny one at that with jokes that would always go over the heads of those who watch brain-dead pap like Ying Yang Yo and Spongebob?

oldshreddersgirl

03-11-2007, 11:10 PM

Yeah, well the morons who bash him and Lawson over here and in the comics are'nt much different. There's a strong underlining resentment towards Laird for allegedly "raping characters" HE co-created and is'nt obligated to preserve for their selfish ungrateful interests, or for Lawson's alleged "bad art", which they harrased Pete with daily only for it to continue regardless.

Of course what you bring up is a far worse example of reasons to dislike the guy. Given he's said time and again he does'nt hate the original cartoon, but that sadly does'nt exempt him from fans looking for other reasons to spit in his face for keeping the franchise alive.

It's unfair on both levels.

As for the argument the animation of the original is better than the new series...that REALLY depends on which studio is animating both, the first five parts of the series ARE arguably better animated. Then there's a good degree of animation that was inflexable during seasons two and three that went from superior to dogier variations. The new series has often went from stilted, to flat, to awe inspiring at times. Both shows are'nt really better than the other in terms of CONSISTENT animation, but when it comes to originality and humour, the original aces the new series. It's perfectly easy to say this whilst still being a fan of the current series also, so it's not like I'm one of those "original rulez because it's the original" people, the original rules because it just is objectivly quicker, more action filled, and more fun. And that's something Pete himself described perfectly

Ha. I disagree, and I'm being perfectly honest. How can a show look stupid years later when it treated itself like a cartoon, and a funny one at that with jokes that would always go over the heads of those who watch brain-dead pap like Ying Yang Yo and Spongebob?

I was just trying to be fair to those who love the classic cartoons and those who love the new ones. Personally i love and aways will love the older TMNT but in the end everyone's is entitled to their own opinion and all opinions should be respected

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-11-2007, 11:28 PM

Yeah, well the morons who bash him and Lawson over here and in the comics are'nt much different. There's a strong underlining resentment towards Laird for allegedly "raping characters" HE co-created and is'nt obligated to preserve for their selfish ungrateful interests, or for Lawson's alleged "bad art", which they harrased Pete with daily only for it to continue regardless.

Of course what you bring up is a far worse example of reasons to dislike the guy. Given he's said time and again he does'nt hate the original cartoon, but that sadly does'nt exempt him from fans looking for other reasons to spit in his face for keeping the franchise alive.

It's unfair on both levels.

As for the argument the animation of the original is better than the new series...that REALLY depends on which studio is animating both, the first five parts of the series ARE arguably better animated. Then there's a good degree of animation that was inflexable during seasons two and three that went from superior to dogier variations. The new series has often went from stilted, to flat, to awe inspiring at times. Both shows are'nt really better than the other in terms of CONSISTENT animation, but when it comes to originality and humour, the original aces the new series. It's perfectly easy to say this whilst still being a fan of the current series also, so it's not like I'm one of those "original rulez because it's the original" people, the original rules because it just is objectivly quicker, more action filled, and more fun. And that's something Pete himself described perfectly

Ha. I disagree, and I'm being perfectly honest. How can a show look stupid years later when it treated itself like a cartoon, and a funny one at that with jokes that would always go over the heads of those who watch brain-dead pap like Ying Yang Yo and Spongebob?

Hey, don't knock Yin, Yang, Yo. It's the first good Disney show since, well since Gargoyles.

oldshreddersgirl

03-12-2007, 03:48 AM

Hey, don't knock Yin, Yang, Yo. It's the first good Disney show since, well since Gargoyles.

yuk i hated gargoyles

kerfootw

03-12-2007, 09:16 AM

Hey, don't knock Yin, Yang, Yo. It's the first good Disney show since, well since Gargoyles.

Please tell me you're joking! It's as big a piece of $hit as Gargoyles haters.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-12-2007, 10:38 AM

Please tell me you're joking! It's as big a piece of $hit as Gargoyles haters.

I'm not joking. It's a good show. I'm not too big on Flash animation, but they use it well, the writting is legitimatley funny. Compared to the other crap Disney has put out latley, this show is a welcome refreshment.

ZariusTwo

03-12-2007, 11:35 AM

kerfootw

03-12-2007, 12:09 PM

Actually every Disney cartoon has sucked since Disney cancelled The Weekenders. Kim Possible's pretty decent but it has major flaws.
Yin Yang Yo! really isn't funny. I'ts just a bunch of unfunny and unoriginal potty and underwear jokes like I've had to endure from other of today's bad cartoons; awful action and drawing; the villains are lame, annoying, childish, and hardly menacing at all; as are the hereos whom you could care nothing about, there's NOTHING to like about them! I think the heroes seem more of a ripoff of the TMNT due to the different species yet family feel they have--except this family is more poorly developed. Although I am starting to see the resemblence of things from that awful Xialin Showdown show in there. I was against YYY from the moment I saw the first commercial and I always will!

Sorry but that's modern Disney for you and I will NEVER watch anything they come out with again!!! For those who think Peter Laird shows contempt for the thing that got his TMNT so famous, Disney tries to pretend like they're old stuff (the cartoons that made them popular) don't even exist! Where's Gargoyles at Disney Land, Kingdom Hearts, appearances on the House of Mouse?! Nowhere! Disney's nothing but utter BULL**** now!

SpiderHulkThing

03-12-2007, 12:53 PM

now i want gargoyles season 2, volume two. Wish they'd go ahead and make it :(

VaughnMichael

03-12-2007, 04:20 PM

Kim Possible is the best Disney series since Gargoyles by any and all means
I agree 100% I thought it was another dumb girly show at first but watching the show on a regular basis now I like it allot.

ZariusTwo

03-12-2007, 04:33 PM

Actually every Disney cartoon has sucked since Disney cancelled The Weekenders. Kim Possible's pretty decent but it has major flaws.

I'll agree with that, Possible BEGAN as a pretty flawed show, it improved around "A Switch In Time", and then got more character driven around season three, culminating in "So The Drama"

And now with the fourth season, they've improved it tremendously.

ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

03-12-2007, 04:41 PM

Dude, you're in the distinct minority who thinks that, I'm not even talking the minority kind that loves obscure shows like OVIDE VIDEO...:)

All well and good if you like that crap, it kind of rips off a little too much I've already seen from things like Xiolyn Showdown for my tastes and dumbs it down for the audience.

Kim Possible is the best Disney series since Gargoyles by any and all means

Well it's safe to know your credibility is completly sunk

Kim Possible is a good show. But I like Yin, Yang, Yo a little more. The jokes aren't all childish. Most of the jokes would go over kids heads. It does remind me of Xiaolin Showdown, but also has some Tiny Toons mixed in there.

I'ts just a bunch of unfunny and unoriginal potty and underwear jokes like I've had to endure from other of today's bad cartoons

What episodes are you watching?

Wait, I already know your reply: "Uh...try every episode".

But it's not just a bunch of lame fat jokes. The art style is simplistic, but it works well for them. The voice acting is the best part. Yin and Yang's voices especially are well done, and just add to the humor.

The only real problem I have with the show is the theme song. Kyle Massey sucks **** from a dogs ass.