Guess What Kids? Another New Clip!

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

http://movies.msn.com/movies/PMG/TMNThistory

Just scroll down till you see the link.

Jeez, are the even gonna show the movie in theatres or just release it in short installments online.

COLLECT ALL THE VIDEOS AND PIECE TOGETHER THE MOVIE!

[Cascadia]

that was an interesting clip from the movie.

[Youal]

I shouldn't watch any more clips than I should. It will spoil the experience when I go see it. The problem is that I can't resist. The publicity people for TMNT should have left only a few clips and leave room for the good parts.

[Cascadia]

I shouldn't watch any more clips than I should. It will spoil the experience when I go see it. The problem is that I can't resist. The publicity people for TMNT should have left only a few clips and leave room for the good parts.

True but I do not have anything else better to do at the moment.

[Buslady]

oooooo i love how Raphie boy just ups and leaves not waiting for Splinter to stop him hehehheeheheeeeeeeee


ONE WEEK PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[triplexxx]

I knew it, Splinter's gonna be a dickhead in this movie.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I knew it, Splinter's gonna be a dickhead in this movie.

Theres a difference between being a dickhead and being a concerned parent/teacher

[triplexxx]

Theres a difference between being a dickhead and being a concerned parent/teacher
Yeah, and what's a concerned parent? One that allows his sons to grow apart for a whole year while he sits on his meditative behind not doing jack for them?
Newsflash: he sent one son away to live out in the open for "a whole year", and in doing so, inadvertantly provoked a second son to go spend his year out in the open to find something constructive to do, meanwhile, a third son's got a job and is at least keeping in contact with the fourth son, who happens to be fulfilling Splinter's wishes by staying in the lair. And he's acting like it's their fault.
If you ask me: It's Splinter's fault they broke up in the first place, and what's more is he's not even taking any friggin responsibility for it.

And think about this:
Leonardo's spent the year becoming spiritually stronger to be a better leader, Raphael's been dedicating his life and skills to keeping NY a safe place to live, Michaelangelo and Donatello have been keeping in contact, working to earn money and keeping their family and their home comfortable and free of financial burdens, and obviously they've all been exercising and keeping fit or they wouldn't have retained their muscular figures and acrobatic skills. At least his sons were doing something constructive during the previous year, whereas Splinter's been sitting on his butt not doing crap.

As a sensei, Splinter's practicaly perfect, but as a father...well, this is why I remember emphasizing in the Splinter Has Nobody thread how Splinter's too absorbed in his role as a sensei and not enough absorbed in his role as a father.

[Cascadia]

I would not jump to conclusions until one reads the comics for the movie and/or watch the movie itself.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Yeah, and what's a concerned parent? One that allows his sons to grow apart for a whole year while he sits on his meditative behind not doing jack for them?
Newsflash: he sent one son away to live out in the open for "a whole year", and in doing so, inadvertantly provoked a second son to go spend his year out in the open to find something constructive to do, meanwhile, a third son's got a job and is at least keeping in contact with the fourth son, who happens to be fulfilling Splinter's wishes by staying in the lair. And he's acting like it's their fault.
If you ask me: It's Splinter's fault they broke up in the first place, and what's more is he's not even taking any friggin responsibility for it.

And think about this:
Leonardo's spent the year becoming spiritually stronger to be a better leader, Raphael's been dedicating his life and skills to keeping NY a safe place to live, Michaelangelo and Donatello have been keeping in contact, working to earn money and keeping their family and their home comfortable and free of financial burdens, and obviously they've all been exercising and keeping fit or they wouldn't have retained their muscular figures and acrobatic skills. At least his sons were doing something constructive during the previous year, whereas Splinter's been sitting on his butt not doing crap.

As a sensei, Splinter's practicaly perfect, but as a father...well, this is why I remember emphasizing in the Splinter Has Nobody thread how Splinter's too absorbed in his role as a sensei and not enough absorbed in his role as a father.


Uhh Hello, are you forgetting the whole plot of the movie? Splinter has been doing something, he's been trying to hold the family together. They've been drifting apart as a team and a family, and Splinter was doing his damndest to keep them together.

We don't know the exact circumstances of Leo's departure. Maybe Splinter wasn't all for Leo leaving, maybe thats why he put so much pressure on the rest of his sons to keep them there. Don't forget, in one of those clips Leo somewhat apologizes for leaving for a year to Splinter

As a father, Splinter isn't always perfect, but what father is? He does his best and it works. He's a father trying to keep this family element from crumbling

So your "Splinter sitting on his lazy butt" argument falls somewhat flat.

[VaughnMichael]

nice this is in the book but they don't even mention splinter who ever said before the movies allready better is correctomundo!:D

[FearlessLeader]

Personally I think Splinter loses his cool here because he is a concerned parent. I actually think you are seeing more of the Father here then the Sensei. I think you are seeing a Father that is very use to hiding his four Sons because that has always been the way he has protected the four of them sense they were babies, now suddenly thrust into the outside world, there protection is out of his control. Like any parent he is having issues letting go and allowing his Sons to grow into there own men. He doesn't want to see them hurt, he wants to keep them there where they are safe.

What father doesn't butt head with his young Sons in such a way.... at least what Father that doesn't love his Sons more then anything.

Try not to be too hard on Splinter, just like Leo he isn't perfect and is stumbling through this thing callled life, trying his best to keep everyone together and most important in his mind alive.

It may seem harsh, but life is harsh. I don't like watching Splinter hurt Leonardo anymore then anyone else, but love/ family causes people to do things, say things that are not always the smartest thing to say, not always the best choice. That honestly is my favorite aspect of this movie how real the family is... and the fact that I know by the end everything will work itself out and be better ;) Because thats how Turtles is!

[Garou]

Wonderful clip. I can't wait to see this.

And I'd actually say that Splinter is doing his best, atleast what I can tell from the clips and reviews. And it's pretty common that fathers and sons have different opinions as to how things are supposed to be - atleast when the kids aren't adults yet. So I won't start judging anything, until I have seen the entire movie and have something to prove me different.

[Spawn Guy]

And while we're at it, they did go against his orders. They got in a fight. Raph jumped in head first, Don and Mike blindly followed and Leo went a long despite the fact he knew he shouldn't. And if the clips of Don and Mike at work are any indication, their not exactly enjoying themsleves.

[Raph's Girl]

Splinter was just being harsh because he's concerned for the safety of his sons. IMO he depends on Leonardo too much to keep the others in line.

I like that Leo refered to Raph as the Night Watchman. Uh Leo... Night Watchman is Maid Marion, not Raph. :lol:

[johnnyblaze]

Yeah, and what's a concerned parent? One that allows his sons to grow apart for a whole year while he sits on his meditative behind not doing jack for them?
Newsflash: he sent one son away to live out in the open for "a whole year", and in doing so, inadvertantly provoked a second son to go spend his year out in the open to find something constructive to do, meanwhile, a third son's got a job and is at least keeping in contact with the fourth son, who happens to be fulfilling Splinter's wishes by staying in the lair. And he's acting like it's their fault.
If you ask me: It's Splinter's fault they broke up in the first place, and what's more is he's not even taking any friggin responsibility for it.

And think about this:
Leonardo's spent the year becoming spiritually stronger to be a better leader, Raphael's been dedicating his life and skills to keeping NY a safe place to live, Michaelangelo and Donatello have been keeping in contact, working to earn money and keeping their family and their home comfortable and free of financial burdens, and obviously they've all been exercising and keeping fit or they wouldn't have retained their muscular figures and acrobatic skills. At least his sons were doing something constructive during the previous year, whereas Splinter's been sitting on his butt not doing crap.

As a sensei, Splinter's practicaly perfect, but as a father...well, this is why I remember emphasizing in the Splinter Has Nobody thread how Splinter's too absorbed in his role as a sensei and not enough absorbed in his role as a father.


1, Leonardo was training (and judging from the clip before was goen longer than he was supposed to be gone) and the situation with Raph is something he recognizes and seeing as though we know how Raph is I can buy that its difficult to get through to him. So when Leo returns he wants Leo to reach out to his brothers. No different than when parents ask older siblings to look out for their younger siblings.

Not to mention that yes even though Raphael is out fighting crime his motivation behind it is more than his wanting to be a good guy. Theres a reason he's wearing a mask and using a secret identity--because even Raph knows what he is doing is'nt right. Especially considering his methods are borderline lethal. Splinter would rather them be together if they are going to do this. Be a team because they are stronger that way. What's wrong for him trying to protect that relationship?

All he wants is that they don't go out fighting anybody. Not until they are complete again. He gave Leo orders not to fight and what happens? They get into one so he chews him out for not listening. He's their mentor/father so he is trying to establish order in the family. The only person he gave crap to was Leo--and that was just during that part we just watched. If you remember in one of the earlier clips he blamed no one when Leo returned. He told Leo not to apologive to him and then told him what he wanted him to do for his brothers. And when that was ignored he got at Leo because Leo is the one he gave the instructions to and who is supposed to lead the. How is he being a dick?

[Rooish]

Heh, I like that script there:

LEO: Save the brute vigilante stuff for that Night-watchman.
MIKEY & RAPH: Nightwatcher.
LEO: Yeah, whatever.

On another topic, if the Turtles are supposed to be all split up as a team, shouldn't Don and Mike not be attached at the hip still? :roll:

[johnnyblaze]

well those 2 are far from confrontational with anyone unless its neccessary so its right within their characters for them to be tight still, even though training may not be their top concern.

[Rooish]

I know; it's just kind of annoying to me. It's like, the team is supposed to be split up, but it's not; just Leo and Raph are. It just reinforces the lack of importance of Mike and Don in this movie.

[johnnyblaze]

Personally I would'nt say all that because the team as we know it: the turtles running rooftops, fighting bad guys, training is gone. Its not split in the sense that no one is talking to each other but it is split in the sense that their is infighting, lack of dedication, ignoring orders ect. Mike and Don are'nt fighting because, well, they aren't that type but it does'nt make them anyless important. They are strong seperatly but the 4 of them together is when they are at their strongest. Mix that with the biggest issue at hand, their failure to follow the leader like hey use to do--which showed in the rooftop clip when they followed Raph instead of Leo, and which Raph pointed out in that rooftop argument in the rain when he said Leo was upset because they were'nt falling in line like back in the day. They might not be at each others throats but the team dynamic that they had is not as good as it use to be.

[Warhorse]

You know, this talk about Splinter and always using Leo to help reach out to the other Turtles. Well. I love Leo, but he isn't the only one in the family Splinter can turn to for help in the communication department. There's always Casey and April, who've been with them through thick and thin. They help when they can, but it's not like Splinter outright asks for it. There's no harm in it. Some humans can be trusted.

[johnnyblaze]

the only one I can see being around much is Casey seeing as though April in the new film apparently travels alot and while yes i'm sure he trusts Casey there is only so much he can say or do considering he is for the most part on the outside looking in

[Warhorse]

^The reason I had made that mention about Splinter turning to April or Casey, is because for the most part, in most mediums, he hardly seems aknowledge their presence. Mostly. Not all the time, but quite a bit.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Yeah, you'd think he'd be a little more fond of humans, considering he was raised by one...

Or at least be more trusting of April & Casey...

But then again, perhaps Splinter did try... we won't really know for sure until the prequel comics come out. Maybe we'll get explanations there...

[Sage Ninja]

you know I feel really, really bad for Leonardo in most mediums. Looks like i'm going to be a Leonardo sympathsier in this movie. Am I the only one that feels that Splinter asks a bit to much of Leonardo and puts a little to much presure on him. The poor guy, I mean I know that Leonardo is considered the oldest so he is given the "older siblings" crushing responsiabilites, but really that is only in mental maturity only.

Physically the turtles are all the same age so I don't think it is completely fair to give all the responisability of keeping every one in check to Leonardo. Make Raphael, Michaelangelo, and Donatello take responicability for their actions and for each other too.

[johnnyblaze]

Yeah, you'd think he'd be a little more fond of humans, considering he was raised by one...

Or at least be more trusting of April & Casey...

But then again, perhaps Splinter did try... we won't really know for sure until the prequel comics come out. Maybe we'll get explanations there...
who says he's not trusting or not fond of them?
at its core the situation is a family matter between brothers so there is only so much April or Casey can say or do. resoulution needs to come from between the brothers regardless if Splinter asks April or Casey to talk to them (and we already know April and Casey do talk to them in the film)

[triplexxx]

you know I feel really, really bad for Leonardo in most mediums. Looks like i'm going to be a Leonardo sympathsier in this movie. Am I the only one that feels that Splinter asks a bit to much of Leonardo and puts a little to much presure on him. The poor guy, I mean I know that Leonardo is considered the oldest so he is given the "older siblings" crushing responsiabilites, but really that is only in mental maturity only.

Physically the turtles are all the same age so I don't think it is completely fair to give all the responisability of keeping every one in check to Leonardo. Make Raphael, Michaelangelo, and Donatello take responicability for their actions and for each other too.
No, you ain't the only one who feels this way. I mean I'm an older brother, but I don't assume all responsibility over my little brother, because he's just as capable of taking care of himself as I am: The case is the same with the turtles, they are all capable of taking care of themselves as well as protecting each other, and it's only fair that Splinter holds all of them responsible for their own actions. It's also true that in order for the turtles to be unified, it takes the efforts of all of them, not just one, and it doesn't seem like Splinter acknowledges that too well. Thus far, he's chided Leonardo, and I have a feeling he will Raphael too, but I'm not sure of the others. You know, back in the old days, I never really thought that much about Splinter at all, when TMNT fandom was revived a few years ago, then I started thinking about him, and at first I thought he was really great and righteous and only wanted what's best for his family, but as I got more and more into him, I started thinking otherwise. My opinion about Splinter just keeps getting worse.

[Warhorse]

who says he's not trusting or not fond of them?
at its core the situation is a family matter between brothers so there is only so much April or Casey can say or do. resoulution needs to come from between the brothers regardless if Splinter asks April or Casey to talk to them (and we already know April and Casey do talk to them in the film)

Wow. Well, in my family and surrounding families, if the parents or someone needs to be reasoned with, or helped, we usually go to the friends first, because most times, we confide to our best friends more than we would to our parents, siblings or cousins. Friends also tend to have a stronger rapport and have decisive influence on eachother, often more times than not compared to a parent or sibling.

[johnnyblaze]

you know I feel really, really bad for Leonardo in most mediums. Looks like i'm going to be a Leonardo sympathsier in this movie. Am I the only one that feels that Splinter asks a bit to much of Leonardo and puts a little to much presure on him. The poor guy, I mean I know that Leonardo is considered the oldest so he is given the "older siblings" crushing responsiabilites, but really that is only in mental maturity only.

Physically the turtles are all the same age so I don't think it is completely fair to give all the responisability of keeping every one in check to Leonardo. Make Raphael, Michaelangelo, and Donatello take responicability for their actions and for each other too.


the film is going by the idea though that Leo is older--even though yes they were all mutated at the same time. and no one is saying that Raph, Mikey and Don don't have to take responsibility for themselves because they do but at the same clip Splinter wants Leo to look out for them and to guide them because he is the oldest and because he wants them to be able to work and care for each other when it is just the 4 of them.

he wants them to be a team and a family so he made it known that he wants Leo to guide the way in both. Yes its pressure to do it-- that's the point. It's not supposed to be easy, otherwise where is the drama. Leo has to learn how to be a good leader and a better older brother, just as the others have to learn the importance of family and the strength of their team when they work together.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

you know I feel really, really bad for Leonardo in most mediums. Looks like i'm going to be a Leonardo sympathsier in this movie. Am I the only one that feels that Splinter asks a bit to much of Leonardo and puts a little to much presure on him. The poor guy, I mean I know that Leonardo is considered the oldest so he is given the "older siblings" crushing responsiabilites, but really that is only in mental maturity only.

Physically the turtles are all the same age so I don't think it is completely fair to give all the responisability of keeping every one in check to Leonardo. Make Raphael, Michaelangelo, and Donatello take responicability for their actions and for each other too.

He may or may not be the oldest physically, but he's looked upon as the oldest. And the leader. And in both positions, they have to set an example and take responsibility for the rest of the team/family. Yes, Don, Mikey, and Raph have to take responsibility for themselves, but it's Leo's job to look after them and not make stupid mistakes.

Thats why Splinter is so hard on him, he was gone for a year to train, so Splinter expected him to do a better job when he got back.

[johnnyblaze]

Wow. Well, in my family and surrounding families, if the parents or someone needs to be reasoned with, or helped, we usually go to the friends first, because most times, we confide to our best friends more than we would to our parents, siblings or cousins. Friends also tend to have a stronger rapport and have decisive influence on eachother, often more times than not compared to a parent or sibling.

that's fine if you want to talk to friends (and we already know that not only do April and Casey have a relationship with the turtles and Splinter but that they give advice to both Leo and Raph) but that still does'nt change the fact that resolution needs to come from within the family. there is only so much April and Casey can say, do, or advise. Its going to have to come down to the turtles and Splinter fixing their relationship.

[Garou]

Hmm, am I the only one who noticed, that Raph smirks when Splinter says "there are no excuses" to Leo?

[johnnyblaze]

He may or may not be the oldest physically, but he's looked upon as the oldest. And the leader. And in both positions, they have to set an example and take responsibility for the rest of the team/family. Yes, Don, Mikey, and Raph have to take responsibility for themselves, but it's Leo's job to look after them and not make stupid mistakes.

Thats why Splinter is so hard on him, he was gone for a year to train, so Splinter expected him to do a better job when he got back.
exactly. we know Leo left inorder to train to be better for the other turtles. and even in the clip Splinter said that he expected Leo's time away to have made him stronger. how much can you imagine it irritates Splinter when he finds out that Leo may not have learned the skills he sent him to gain and that he is doing a bad job of leading/looking after his own brothers.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Hmm, am I the only one who noticed, that Raph smirks when Splinter says "there are no excuses" to Leo?

::reviews footage::

Well how about that? He did smirk... cocky bastard:lol:

[Rooish]

Possible spoilers in this comment (based on the clips).

I feel bad for Leo, too. He basically lives for his brothers. I know he's got an ego, but he's earned it because he's been so dedicated and responsible in his ninja training. Also Raph seems to be behaving so passive aggressively, and then outright aggressively, without even explaining to Leo, or Splinter, or anybody, that he's jealous. Plus Raph seems to be doing this Nightwatcher thing to let out more aggression and beat the crap out of bad guys. He's not being a huge humanitarian or anything.

I sympathise with Raph, too, but he picks a very self-indulgent way of dealing with his problems. I know Leo may get a certain thrill when he's praised by Splinter, but he also receives scoldings and high expectations from Splinter.

And johnnyblaze, I think maybe Splinter should have anticipated Raph's unwillingness to receive orders from Leo, no matter how much training Leo did during that year. Raph has always followed Leo unwillingly.

[Spawn Guy]

No, you ain't the only one who feels this way. I mean I'm an older brother, but I don't assume all responsibility over my little brother, because he's just as capable of taking care of himself as I am:

But when your supposed to look out for him and you screw up, your not called on it?

The case is the same with the turtles, they are all capable of taking care of themselves as well as protecting each other, and it's only fair that Splinter holds all of them responsible for their own actions. It's also true that in order for the turtles to be unified, it takes the efforts of all of them, not just one, and it doesn't seem like Splinter acknowledges that too well. Thus far, he's chided Leonardo, and I have a feeling he will Raphael too, but I'm not sure of the others.
I dunno...I get the feeling he was addressing all of them before turning on Leo. If he was just going to lecture Leo, why have them all there?

You know, back in the old days, I never really thought that much about Splinter at all, when TMNT fandom was revived a few years ago, then I started thinking about him, and at first I thought he was really great and righteous and only wanted what's best for his family, but as I got more and more into him, I started thinking otherwise. My opinion about Splinter just keeps getting worse.

Is that because of the way he's written, or because your looking out for the bad stuff?

[triplexxx]

But when your supposed to look out for him and you screw up, your not called on it?
Well, to tell you the truth, he really doesn't need my help much at all. We love each other but live totally separate lives. In fact to tell you the truth, I really think he's better off without my help, which I'm perfectly okay with. My parents hold him responsible for what he does wrong, and it's mutual for me and what I do wrong, simple as that.
I dunno...I get the feeling he was addressing all of them before turning on Leo. If he was just going to lecture Leo, why have them all there?
Good point.
Is that because of the way he's written, or because your looking out for the bad stuff?
It's because I read between the lines, apply logic, and then "do the math", and yes, I find the way he's written is with flaws. I don't look out for anything, it just comes to me.

[johnnyblaze]

Possible spoilers in this comment (based on the clips).

I feel bad for Leo, too. He basically lives for his brothers. I know he's got an ego, but he's earned it because he's been so dedicated and responsible in his ninja training. Also Raph seems to be behaving so passive aggressively, and then outright aggressively, without even explaining to Leo, or Splinter, or anybody, that he's jealous. Plus Raph seems to be doing this Nightwatcher thing to let out more aggression and beat the crap out of bad guys. He's not being a huge humanitarian or anything.

I sympathise with Raph, too, but he picks a very self-indulgent way of dealing with his problems. I know Leo may get a certain thrill when he's praised by Splinter, but he also receives scoldings and high expectations from Splinter.

And johnnyblaze, I think maybe Splinter should have anticipated Raph's unwillingness to receive orders from Leo, no matter how much training Leo did during that year. Raph has always followed Leo unwillingly.

Raph may have been reluctant in the past and outspoken and acted out based on his temper but he did allow himself to be led by Leo --he even said as much in the clip when they are standing in the rain and he ripped into Leo about how he expects them all to line up to him like they use to do and that he does his own thing now and that he had better get used to it..the problem is that Raph is being even more outspoken about his doubt in Leo. I have no doubt its at an even more severe degree than it has been before seeing as though it leads into an actual physical fight between the two. And i'm sure Splinter did anticipate Raph--he even told Leo he needs to talk to Raphael because Leo's departure had been particulary hard on him. right then and there he singled Raph out and told Leo he needed to reach out to Raph.

[LeafVillage Turtle]

Here's what I want to know: Why can't Splinter have flaws? It's much more interesting that way, if you ask me. For years and years and years, we've seen him as the typical "wise old master who's never wrong". His apparent flaws in the new movie make him a better, more interesting character.

[Spawn Guy]

Well, to tell you the truth, he really doesn't need my help much at all. We love each other but live totally separate lives. In fact to tell you the truth, I really think he's better off without my help, which I'm perfectly okay with. My parents hold him responsible for what he does wrong, and it's mutual for me and what I do wrong, simple as that.

That dosen't answer my question.

And that works in a normal family. But Leo also has to play field commander, which I feel a lot of people over look. He's the leader yes, but that dosen't mean he's in charge of what they do with their lives or what they do between fighting whatever is a threat to the city or the planet. That's up to them, but a large part of their lives is the discipline of ninjas, acting as a disciplined unit (Yes, including Raph, however reluctant he may be) and they don't have that anymore. They need a leader as much as a brother, and Leo is supposed to be better than he was a year ago. And he screwed up. He's responsible, as a leader not just an older brother, he's responsible for them as a fighting unit. And they did poorly, while he was supposed to bring them together. And Splinter called him on it, especially when he tries to pawn the blame off on Raph. That dosen't sound like an improved leader or a mature brother, so why shouldn't Leo face that?

It's because I read between the lines, apply logic, and then "do the math", and yes, I find the way he's written is with flaws. I don't look out for anything, it just comes to me.

"Reading between the lines" isn't looking for something? And I'm sure I don't have to point out the flaws in Leo, Raph, Don, Mike, April, Casey or whoever. But what's the point? If they don't have flaws, their not characters, their pieces of cardboard. Same with Splinter, and if I "read between the lines" and "apply logic" to a movie about four mutant turtles and a rat written in a way that can be understood by an audience with a fairly low age range, then I see a concerned parent.

[triplexxx]

That dosen't answer my question.

And that works in a normal family. But Leo also has to play field commander, which I feel a lot of people over look. He's the leader yes, but that dosen't mean he's in charge of what they do with their lives or what they do between fighting whatever is a threat to the city or the planet. That's up to them, but a large part of their lives is the discipline of ninjas, acting as a disciplined unit (Yes, including Raph, however reluctant he may be) and they don't have that anymore. They need a leader as much as a brother, and Leo is supposed to be better than he was a year ago. And he screwed up. He's responsible, as a leader not just an older brother, he's responsible for them as a fighting unit. And they did poorly, while he was supposed to bring them together. And Splinter called him on it, especially when he tries to pawn the blame off on Raph. That dosen't sound like an improved leader or a mature brother, so why shouldn't Leo face that?
Because a good leader is just one of many things it takes to keep a team of ninjas together, and Splinter should know that. Each turtle has his own individual responsibilities on the team and each turtle's responsibility is just as vital. If Splinter wanted things worked out, he should've arranged to talk to and reason with all of them individually beforehand and give each one of them a task on how to work things out between them, rather than just consult one of them with a task and let the others find out for themselves, that would greatly increase chances for success. What's even more important than a field leader or a big brother is a father, because this role contains elements of both and goes beyond that. The one who's decisions are most depended on and is more in charge than anyone else is Splinter, so he needs to make wise, well-thought out decisions if he wants his family together.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Your expecting Splinter to do too much for them. They're growing up now and Splinter's getting older, they have to start learning how to make decisions for themselves, Splinter can now only guide them the best he can.

[johnnyblaze]

Because a good leader is just one of many things it takes to keep a team of ninjas together, and Splinter should know that. Each turtle has his own individual responsibilities on the team and each turtle's responsibility is just as vital. If Splinter wanted things worked out, he should've arranged to talk to and reason with all of them individually beforehand and give each one of them a task on how to work things out between them, rather than just consult one of them with a task and let the others find out for themselves, that would greatly increase chances for success. What's even more important than a field leader or a big brother is a father, because this role contains elements of both and goes beyond that. The one who's decisions are most depended on and is more in charge than anyone else is Splinter, so he needs to make wise, well-thought out decisions if he wants his family together.

so are you saying he should have sent them all out? maybe he did'nt because he thought they were'nt ready yet or maybe he felt that this was not the right type of training neccessary for Raph, Mike and Don, but it was for Leo. maybe he just thought this was the path Leo needed to take for his training. considering they are all individuals and their skills and ability to handle situations are going to vary it makes sense that maybe he woud choose the most dedicated student on a mission across the world to sharpen his skills to the point where he will be better for the rest of them.

and all Splinter wanted was for the other 3 not to go out and fight crime. That's it. He wanted them to hold off on the superhero stuff until all 4 were brought back together. What's wrong with him not wanting them to engage enemies as anything other than a team? And why are you assuming he did'nt talk to the other turtles about Leo leaving? How they end up handling it is going to vary especially when Leo ended up being gone longer than he was supposed to be as shown in the clip when Leo apologized for being gone so long.

[triplexxx]

No, I'm not talking about the arrangements he made a year ago, I'm talking about the arrangements he made after Leonardo came back, like when he arranged for Leonardo to take them out and work out on the rooftops, he talks only to him about it and just expects the others to follow along. He should've talked to all of them about this arrangement and given them each a part to play in it, or maybe just make a separate arrangement for each one of them so that they all could be given a chance to reach out to their brothers, and since he knows his sons, he should be able to create a series of arrangements that will allow them all to fulfill their own position on the team. Because like I said, a good leader is just one of many things it takes to run a fighting team of ninjas, and they couldn't function properly without any one of them (so you were right about not doing anything until Leonardo came back).
so are you saying he should have sent them all out? maybe he did'nt because he thought they were'nt ready yet or maybe he felt that this was not the right type of training neccessary for Raph, Mike and Don, but it was for Leo. maybe he just thought this was the path Leo needed to take for his training. considering they are all individuals and their skills and ability to handle situations are going to vary it makes sense that maybe he woud choose the most dedicated student on a mission across the world to sharpen his skills to the point where he will be better for the rest of them.
Well, maybe this was just where his judgment went wrong. Like you said they all are individual, but though their abilities to handle situations do vary, they do so very little, and they're all very self-sufficient. If he wants them being a team, he should make them do things together as a team and have them all be making efforts to better themselves. By doing this, he triggered their separation in the first place. He thought it was a good idea at first, but apparently it wasn't.

[johnnyblaze]

Well, maybe this was just where his judgment went wrong. Like you said they all are individual, but though their abilities to handle situations do vary, they do so very little, and they're all very self-sufficient. If he wants them being a team, he should make them do things together as a team and have them all be making efforts to better themselves. By doing this, he triggered their separation in the first place. He thought it was a good idea at first, but apparently it wasn't.

he wants them to fight crime as a team--with a better leader. so he took the opportunity (after they defeated the big bad guy Shredder) to have Leo step up his training. I still don't see whats wrong with that. Yes it ended up dividing the turtles (Raphael more than the others) when Leo was gone longer than he was supposed to be gone but I still don't see why this would leave to negative feeling about Splinter sending Leo to step up his training. He wants them to have a good leader. he told them not to fight crime until Leo came back and they were 4 again. in the meantime they did their own thing--all he asked was that they don't fight crime, not that they don't be individuals and better themselves. just because he does'nt want them out on the streets just yet does'nt mean he's trying to hold them back. they can still train, they can still meditate, they can still work together, they can still pursue those interests they always had, get jobs etc. All he wanted was for them not to fight crime until Leo came back from the training mission he was sent on, a mission designed to make him even better for them. What is so wrong about that?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Hey kiddies, gues what?


Number 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMuwNGCZF0

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Hey kiddies, gues what?


Number 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMuwNGCZF0

Dammit, I can't take another one of these... Just give me the whole movie in one dose, already... :lol:

[triplexxx]

so he took the opportunity (after they defeated the big bad guy Shredder) to have Leo step up his training. I still don't see whats wrong with that. Yes it ended up dividing the turtles (Raphael more than the others) when Leo was gone longer than he was supposed to be gone but I still don't see why this would leave to negative feeling about Splinter sending Leo to step up his training.
That's just the point: he shouldn't have divided them up in the first place. It's good that he wants his son to better himself, but by not allowing the others the same privledge, that in itself breaks the whole team dynamic. Because no matter how good any one of them are, the message this movie is supposed to convey is: Teamwork will always be their greatest asset. The most important things they learn in training are things they learn when they "train together". If Splinter had had them all train together, he'd have gotten better results: they'd all be stronger as both individuals AND as a team.

In Return To New York arc, they accomplished defeating Shredder with everybody's efforts, same with the whole Turtles In Space, Space Invaders, & Worlds Collide episode arcs, and I don't know how many one-part episodes they also worked together.
Did you watch the Lost Season? Did you remember in New World Order 2 when they first called upon AND transformed into the dragons? They accomplished that by doing it together

They accomplish the most in battle when they do it together, and their training should be no different.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Thats just the thing, they're teenagers. Obviously they're not going to do everything together. In the comics they've had plenty of adventures solo. Plus, they have other intrest. Leo was off pursuing his. Plus, Leo is the more advanced in skill, so it's only natural he'd advance to the next level before the others. Point is, families can't be expected to do EVERYTHING together.

If the other Turtles were as dedicated as Leo, then splinter probably would have sent them off to train like Leo. Someone, I forget who, gave a good analogy, Leo is like the kid who goes off to college and the others are like the brother, or brothers, who stayed behind to work in the family business.

Splinter want's them to work together, but he also acknowledges that they have seperte intrest they must follow. He just wan't to make sure that they're family/team wont dissolve to the point where they forget about each other completley.

[Spawn Guy]

Because a good leader is just one of many things it takes to keep a team of ninjas together, and Splinter should know that. Each turtle has his own individual responsibilities on the team and each turtle's responsibility is just as vital. If Splinter wanted things worked out, he should've arranged to talk to and reason with all of them individually beforehand and give each one of them a task on how to work things out between them, rather than just consult one of them with a task and let the others find out for themselves, that would greatly increase chances for success. What's even more important than a field leader or a big brother is a father, because this role contains elements of both and goes beyond that. The one who's decisions are most depended on and is more in charge than anyone else is Splinter, so he needs to make wise, well-thought out decisions if he wants his family together.

That would make a fascinating 81 or so minutes worth of entertainment.



If the other Turtles were as dedicated as Leo, then splinter probably would have sent them off to train like Leo. Someone, I forget who, gave a good analogy, Leo is like the kid who goes off to college and the others are like the brother, or brothers, who stayed behind to work in the family business.


The director.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

^ Ah, arigatoo tomodachi

[Spawn Guy]

That better be Spanish for "I'm going to make you a sandwich."

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

That better be Spanish for "I'm going to make you a sandwich."

No, it's Japanese for Thanks Friend

[Spawn Guy]

Oh.



So, you can't make your friend a sandwich?

[johnnyblaze]

That's just the point: he shouldn't have divided them up in the first place. It's good that he wants his son to better himself, but by not allowing the others the same privledge, that in itself breaks the whole team dynamic. Because no matter how good any one of them are, the message this movie is supposed to convey is: Teamwork will always be their greatest asset. The most important things they learn in training are things they learn when they "train together". If Splinter had had them all train together, he'd have gotten better results: they'd all be stronger as both individuals AND as a team.

In Return To New York arc, they accomplished defeating Shredder with everybody's efforts, same with the whole Turtles In Space, Space Invaders, & Worlds Collide episode arcs, and I don't know how many one-part episodes they also worked together.
Did you watch the Lost Season? Did you remember in New World Order 2 when they first called upon AND transformed into the dragons? They accomplished that by doing it together

They accomplish the most in battle when they do it together, and their training should be no different.


Leonardo is the leader. He wants to be and Splinter wants him to be. But to be a good leader he needs the right skills so he sent him to get them. Its a mission he thought would make Leo better for his role on the team. Whose to say he won't come up with individual missions for the others and their training? Infact if you want some spoilers from the novel (Raphael having to lead the team to save Leo is his training. He gets a medallion like Leo and Splinter tells him that their training is not all the same and works in different ways) could he have done it with the other 3? yeah, but it was'nt their mission. It was a personal mission for Leo, something he needed to do alone at a time where it was good and safe for him to do so. It was designed to strengthen the team by giving them a stronger foundation to fall back on. That way when he returns and they have to get into it with the bad guys they can be even better. For freaks sake what is so wrong with wanting to give them a better leader?

Yes teamwork will be their strongest asset and it will continue to be and yes they accomplish the most in battle when they work together --that does'nt mean he should be afraid to seperate them in order to strengthen them at various points in their developments, especially when they are'nt even in a fight and are simply training. They are all different. All at different levels of skill and talents. Its good that they have to depend on each other but its also good to give them the chance to do their own thing, take on their own missions, build their own skills. Give them a chance to grow when they are at the point where they need to grow and strengthen themselves--even if they have to do it solo.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Oh.



So, you can't make your friend a sandwich?

Not unless I see 5 dollars from said friend.

[Spawn Guy]

I knew you only wanted me for my money.

*Ca-ching*

Ham please.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I knew you only wanted me for my money.

*Ca-ching*

Ham please.

All we have is Bologna

[johnnyblaze]

i'm surprised there are'nt more reviews out on the net

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

i'm surprised there are'nt more reviews out on the net

I haven't seen many reviews, but the whole plot of the movie has now been put up on the TMNT wikipedia page.

Intresting though, it says the seens featuring Jet and P.O.D's songs recieved applause from the Portland audience.

[jezza]

I can understand why. Even though there are quite a few people who don't like the P.O.D song it's probably one of the best action sequences in the movie. We have been horribly spoiled by all these IGN clips.

The mikey clip with Jet is just awesome anyway.

[Warhorse]

Leonardo is the leader. He wants to be and Splinter wants him to be. But to be a good leader he needs the right skills so he sent him to get them. Its a mission he thought would make Leo better for his role on the team. Whose to say he won't come up with individual missions for the others and their training? Infact if you want some spoilers from the novel (Raphael having to lead the team to save Leo is his training. He gets a medallion like Leo and Splinter tells him that their training is not all the same and works in different ways) could he have done it with the other 3? yeah, but it was'nt their mission. It was a personal mission for Leo, something he needed to do alone at a time where it was good and safe for him to do so. It was designed to strengthen the team by giving them a stronger foundation to fall back on. That way when he returns and they have to get into it with the bad guys they can be even better. For freaks sake what is so wrong with wanting to give them a better leader?

Yes teamwork will be their strongest asset and it will continue to be and yes they accomplish the most in battle when they work together --that does'nt mean he should be afraid to seperate them in order to strengthen them at various points in their developments, especially when they are'nt even in a fight and are simply training. They are all different. All at different levels of skill and talents. Its good that they have to depend on each other but its also good to give them the chance to do their own thing, take on their own missions, build their own skills. Give them a chance to grow when they are at the point where they need to grow and strengthen themselves--even if they have to do it solo.


Ok. Splinter sent Leo out so as to advance on his role as leader of the team. Fine.

But why not construe a plan that would allow the other Turtles to advance in their role on the team instead of being just sitting ducks. He could have found something that Donny could use to further his intellect. Mikey, he may like video games and stuff, but did you see some of those moves he pulled on that skateboard, I bet Leo could never do that. Can't Splinter see Mikey's potential and try to tap into that? And Raph, he's the strength and brawn, and the most outspoken of the team. He's the one that tends to go in first because he is just completely fearless, and that is something you can;t teach someone.

Instead, Splinter seems to only concentrate on the one son that shares his similar traits and way of thinking and talents. I would think the other Turtles would see this and feel left out. I know Raphael sure did.

It seems unfair for Splinter to put so much on Leo's shoulder, and offer him the most advancement while seeming to ignore his other sons' accomplishments.

But as someone said, it makes for a very interesting Splinter to have these frustrating flaws. It spiced up things.

[Sage Ninja]

Ok. Splinter sent Leo out so as to advance on his role as leader of the team. Fine.

But why not construe a plan that would allow the other Turtles to advance in their role on the team instead of being just sitting ducks. He could have found something that Donny could use to further his intellect. Mikey, he may like video games and stuff, but did you see some of those moves he pulled on that skateboard, I bet Leo could never do that. Can't Splinter see Mikey's potential and try to tap into that? And Raph, he's the strength and brawn, and the most outspoken of the team. He's the one that tends to go in first because he is just completely fearless, and that is something you can;t teach someone.

Instead, Splinter seems to only concentrate on the one son that shares his similar traits and way of thinking and talents. I would think the other Turtles would see this and feel left out. I know Raphael sure did.

It seems unfair for Splinter to put so much on Leo's shoulder, and offer him the most advancement while seeming to ignore his other sons' accomplishments.

But as someone said, it makes for a very interesting Splinter to have these frustrating flaws. It spiced up things.

I agree with you on this, that the other turtles seem like they have been in a sence over looked and the focus has been on Leonardo who shares more of the same interests with Splinter. I could see how Raphael, the most millitant and dedicated to ninjitsu after Leonardo, could feel slighted and resentful that the all the focus and opertunity for advancement has been given to Leo and the other have seemingly been ignored. I think both Donatello and Michaelangelo have plenty of potentical that could be explored but have been rather over looked in the warrior department for advancement.

Although I think it is a very bold move that the movie is giving Splinter this character flaw over showing a bit of favortism and focus toward one son, especiacally since tradionally in almost every medium the writters have been careful to make Splinter very fair and his attention equal to each of his sons and not show favortism, but this movie it seem that they are putting Splinter with that very big (and problematic) character flaw, which seems to be the one of the core elemtents of the movie. This is going to be a sweet movie and I give the writter props for haveing the balls to take Splinter character there.

[Warhorse]

Hey kiddies, gues what?


Number 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMuwNGCZF0


I like that one!:D

The scene where it shows Raph and Casey looking over the roof top, from helicoptor view, was cool. Also liked the "Oh did I mention that we ran into some monsters the last night!" LOL!

What was that thing anyways? Looked like a flying winged ring raith or something.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I like that one!:D

The scene where it shows Raph and Casey looking over the roof top, from helicoptor view, was cool. Also liked the "Oh did I mention that we ran into some monsters the last night!" LOL!

What was that thing anyways? Looked like a flying winged ring raith or something.

That was the Vampire Succubor.

[Rooish]

I don't see why Splinter scolded Leo, though. From the clips, it looks like Raph just jumped in and Leo told him not to. Leo can't physically force Raph not to do something.

As far as I can tell, Leo didn't fail at all; it was his first try in a year and no one was receptive and Raph was resentful.

Of course it's more interesting to have the team divided and to have Splinter not be a perfect father/teacher. But ... yeah, that's the point. He's imperfect. I think he made a mistake, both by scolding Leo and by giving Leo the special training opportunity.

[triplexxx]

It's strange, how come Munroe never mentioned in any of his interviews any ideas about making Splinter's character/morality somewhat ambiguous? Did he think that was giving away too much? Or am I wrong and he did mention it?

[Rooish]

Maybe he doesn't think Splinter's morality is ambiguous.

Or maybe it's just nothing new. ;)