A few questions

[Quiet_Guy]

Growing up, I've only seen a few episodes of the original toon so I'm sort of a late bloomer to the Turtles mythos so I have some questions about them.
1. I like how they are short fellas but can kick butt. Was it ever stated why Laird and Eastman made them so small?
2. Where did Eastman and Laird get their ideas for their personalities?
3. Besides the Turtles, Splinter, and April, what other characters did Eastman and Laird originally create?
4. Is there anyway in the world I can find the 1st 12 issue run by Laird and Eastman for a decent price?
5. Do the Turtles take showers? Living in the sewer and all they must stink, lol..

[oldmanwinters]

1. Larid once stated, I believe, that they loved the irony of one of nature's slowest creatures being able to be fast. I think you could probably stretch that logic to conclude that keeping them short adds to the irony. Also, we tend to stereotype short people with being faster than larger heavier objects.
2. No clue, but I think Rapheal's weapon and temper were based on Wolverine.
3. Major characters who have appeared in other incarnations include but originally appeared in Mirage comics under Eastman & Larid's oversight: Leatherhead, Shredder, Foot Clan (including Shredder Elite, Foot Mystics, and Shredder clones), Karai, Rat King, Renet and Lord Simultaneous, Fugitoid, Triceratons (including Zogg), Utroms, Casey Jones, Savanti Romero, Nobody, Justice Force, Mousers, Baxter Stockman (never a fly), Kirby, Klunk the cat, and Shadow.
4. Some are for sale on the official website, others are up on ebay. Hopefully, they will all eventually be scaned to the official site for public reading.
5. Yes, Raph showered at least while living in April's apartment in the Donatello #1 special.

[Quiet_Guy]

1. Larid once stated, I believe, that they loved the irony of one of nature's slowest creatures being able to be fast. I think you could probably stretch that logic to conclude that keeping them short adds to the irony. Also, we tend to stereotype short people with being faster than larger heavier objects.
2. No clue, but I think Rapheal's weapon and temper were based on Wolverine.
3. Major characters who have appeared in other incarnations include but originally appeared in Mirage comics under Eastman & Larid's oversight: Leatherhead, Shredder, Foot Clan (including Shredder Elite, Foot Mystics, and Shredder clones), Karai, Rat King, Renet and Lord Simultaneous, Fugitoid, Triceratons (including Zogg), Utroms, Casey Jones, Savanti Romero, Nobody, Justice Force, Mousers, Baxter Stockman (never a fly), Kirby, Klunk the cat, and Shadow.
4. Some are for sale on the official website, others are up on ebay. Hopefully, they will all eventually be scaned to the official site for public reading.
5. Yes, Raph showered at least while living in April's apartment in the Donatello #1 special.

I had no idea Justice Force appeared in the Mirage comics. I thought they were just made up for the cartoon. Does the Mirage comics give any history of the Shredder Elite?

[Warhorse]

Hey, I have a completely unrelated question to this topic, I just didn;t want to start another thread.

But, in all the toons, movies and comics, how many times have the Turtles used other weapons, and who seems to be the most innovative with different weapons other than their own?

Like, has Leo had to use, say Mikey's nunchucks at one time or another? Or Raph had to use Leo's swords or Donnie Raph's sais and so forth?

[Time Mistress]

Splinter's name was originally a parody of Elecktra's sensei called Stick, his personality was possibly borrowed as well.

The Turtles personalites were all based on the X-Men.
Leo = Cyclops, Raph = Wolverine, Don = Beast, Mike = Iceman/Nighcrawler

Not sure about height, but Wolverine who is Raph's model for personality is only 5'3".

No history of the Elite that I know of. But the TMNT make a deal with Karai to kill the Elite in exchange for the Foot never bothering the TMNT again in the Mirage version of City at War, which is the biggest comics story to feature the Elite I think.

The canister of ooze is the same one that hits Daredevil in the accident which causes him to go blind before bouncing into the sewers and mutating the baby Turtles.

The Turtles use each other's weapons in the 2K3 episode What a Croc. Raph uses Leo's sword. Don uses Raph's sai. Leo uses Don's bo. Mike uses some makeshift tonfa. They all seem pretty equal with each other's weapons. Don can't twirl a sai like Raph, but he has just as good aim.

[Quiet_Guy]

Splinter's name was originally a parody of Elecktra's sensei called Stick, his personality was possibly borrowed as well.

The Turtles personalites were all based on the X-Men.
Leo = Cyclops, Raph = Wolverine, Don = Beast, Mike = Iceman/Nighcrawler

Not sure about height, but Wolverine who is Raph's model for personality is only 5'3".

No history of the Elite that I know of. But the TMNT make a deal with Karai to kill the Elite in exchange for the Foot never bothering the TMNT again in the Mirage version of City at War, which is the biggest comics story to feature the Elite I think.

The canister of ooze is the same one that hits Daredevil in the accident which causes him to go blind before bouncing into the sewers and mutating the baby Turtles.

The Turtles use each other's weapons in the 2K3 episode What a Croc. Raph uses Leo's sword. Don uses Raph's sai. Leo uses Don's bo. Mike uses some makeshift tonfa. They all seem pretty equal with each other's weapons. Don can't twirl a sai like Raph, but he has just as good aim.

You know I've always wondered if Cyclops was the basis for Leo, and now it's been confirmed. I had no idea Beast and Iceman personalities were also the basis for Mikey and Don. I love asking questions here, there is so much good info I always get!:)

[Sage Ninja]

I like Leonardo's personality better than Cyclop's. Cyclop;s character has to tendacy to irk me for some reason. I think its interesting that Michaelangelo is modeled after night crawler and Ice man. they are two X-Men that have always been rather obscure for me so I don't know what their personailties are like. But i do remeber one episode of the 90's version of X-Men where Night Crawler is portrayed as a monk in a monestary.

And I know the turtles have used each other weapons at least once in the 2k3 series (well at least Don, Raph and leo have) but what about in the mirage comics universe?

[Warhorse]

Do you think it would be easier or harder for Raph to weild his sai with only two fingers and a thumb?

[Time Mistress]

Well, I don't have an exact quote anywhere for the X-Men thing except that Eastman & Laird did parody a lot of Marvel comics when they created the TMNT and X-Men was definately one of those books. But I do recall hearing Raph being based on Wolvie. As for who the other 3 Turtles were based on it was just kinda obvious from reading way too many X-Men comics and knowing of Eastman & Laird's love for Jack Kirby.

Iceman/Bobby Drake is the youngest of the original X-Men. He's the prankster, the goof off, the funny one. He's also potentially one of the most powerful mutants on the planet IF he would focus and "grow up." But he doesn't want to for various reasons, one is he doesn't want to kill anybody with his powers.

Mike is the youngest of the TMNT. He's the prankster, the goof off, the funny one. It's said he possessess the most natural athleticism and one of the most lethal weapons of the four of the Turtles and could potentially even exceed Leo IF he he would focus and "grow up." But he doesn't want to, partly because he doesn't like to kill except in self defense.

Mirage Raph vs. Leo is in the classic style of Cyclops vs. Wolvie (70s/80s Claremont Era). It's a good thing there's no Jean Grey type of character in TMNT for Leo and Raph to fight over. It would be a disaster if there were such a character. Oh, wait THAT'S one of the reasons why Venus was such a bad idea (not that Raph and Leo fought over her, but it could have easily turned to that had the show lasted longer considering how much like Jean she was.)

Nightcrawler is Wolverine's best friend. The light to his dark. The cheerful to his brooding. One of the few who can reach Wolverine in his rages. Optimism to Wolvie's pesimism. He's one of the most nautually athletic X-Men (it's part of his power). He's jokey and a bit of a prankster but in a more sophisticated way than Iceman. He loves old movies and is a film buff, a swashbuckler at heart. He's also very spiritual. He doesn't mind being a mutant and is the charming sort that all can't help but want as their friend.

Mike (in Mirage anyway) is closest to Raph. The light to his dark. The cheerful to his brooding, etc. He's the one most likely to reach Raph in his rages. He's athletic and a prankster. Mirage Mike is a film buff (he likes Robin Hood and E.T. according to the Role Playing guide). Mike has that swashbuckler/superhero aspect to him. It's been debated recently on these board if he's the most spiritual Turtle. He doesn't mind being a mutant and is the charming sort that gets along with the human world best.

Beast/Henry "Hank" McCoy is a genius. An inventor, a doctor. Hank's done it all. He's the go to guy for advice on just about anything for the team, even if the others think he needs to get out of the lab more often. The team would be lost without him. He's a peacemaker, with a quirky sense of humor. But he's a ferocious fighter when he need to be. He often hangs out most with Bobby of the original X-Men team and they get up to some wacky stuff together. He also loves literature.

Donny is the team genius. He invents everything and is the go to guy on just about anything, even if the others think he need to get out of the lab more often. The team would REALLY be lost without him. He's a peacemaker with a quirky sese of humor. But he's a ferocious fighter when he need to be. The Mike/Don relationship is very similar to the Beast/Iceman relationship in the stuff they get up to. Like Beast, Donny is very well read. I'm interested to see how Dark Turlte Don in Fast Forward is like the Dark Beast from the Age of Apocalypse alternate universe.

[oldmanwinters]

Looks like sombody else had already thought this through too:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Crossover_Contest_Entry_.jpg

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/8209190/?q=turtles+xmen&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5

[Time Mistress]

Cool drawing!

I don't think the TMNT have ever switched weapons in Mirage mainly because with the book being b&w their signature weapons are the only way to tell them apart really. They have used some weapons other than their signature ones. In the pre-teen TMNT issue (#9), Mike uses the steel whip/manriki gassari and Raph uses tonfa. And they all use single katanas in Zulli's Soul's Withering trilogy (but Zulli's stuff isn't cannon). That's all I can think of for now.

[oldmanwinters]

Donatello was pictured with a sword on his back on the cover of TMNT #1.

Also, guest Mirage artists tended not to care much for continuity or character traits. Mark Martin's TMNT #16 is one example. Matt Howarth's "The Haunted Pizza" special is another. In this issue, there is a scene in which the turtles are engaged in horseplay and are all using apparently random weapons. Thus, making them practically indistinguishable.

In the OT (if you don't count all the numerious coloring/voice mistakes where the wrong Turtle is drawn or speaks with another's weapons) there is this scene where Raph shows us what a katana is really useful for:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/salamislice1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/TMNT/salamislice3.jpg

[Rooish]

In issue 21, I believe, of the old Mirage series, Mikey uses Don's bo to knock out a couple of Shredder clones.

[Sage Ninja]

Thanks Time Mistress for those comparisons. they where pretty interesting. However the thing about Night Crawler and Wolverine being good buddies that acted as a foil to one one another, was that just in the comics? Because if I recall right in the 90's cartoon Wolverine seemed pretty close to Morph, and took it pretty hard when he thought he had been killed? And in fact went out looking for him. In the cartoon you don't even really see Night Crawler.

[Jester]

I know in 2k3 continuity, the TMNT have switched weapons, to take out baxter and LH's Turtle Bot. Leo mentions that Splinter has made it known that he thinks they should be masters of all weapon forms.

[Sage Ninja]

I think that is awsome. I wish the scene where the turtle fight with each others weapons was longer. Maybe make it so they switch off and fight with each others weapons, so they all get to a shot to fighteach other waepons. That would have been awsome.

Which turtle do you think would fight best with their brothers weapon? Raph seemed pretty comfertable with the double katana, as did Leo with Don's bo staff.

[Warhorse]

I think that is awsome. I wish the scene where the turtle fight with each others weapons was longer. Maybe make it so they switch off and fight with each others weapons, so they all get to a shot to fighteach other waepons. That would have been awsome.

Which turtle do you think would fight best with their brothers weapon? Raph seemed pretty comfertable with the double katana, as did Leo with Don's bo staff.


I like your question on who we would think would be best with weapons other than their own.

It would be a tough question too. I have no idea. I'd think Mikey might have a real talent with any weapon, because I always heard that the nunchuck was the most difficult to master, and since he's already done that, I think it wouldn't take much for him to develope really good swordsmanship skills. So I think Mikey would be second best to Leo with the swords.

Don, I think may have the strength to use the sai competently enough. But would he have the agression to get up real close and personal with an adversary?

Raph, I think would be great with the bo staff, since he already has some pretty good skills of twirling the sais, I'm sure it would be nothing for him to adapt himself with a longer weapon.

I think Leo would be the next in line behind Mikey to have the skill to weild the nunchucks. He sure would have the determination as well.

But do you think, since Leo and Don are using weapons with a long reach, they might feel inhibited if they were to use Mikey's or Raph's shorter weapons?

[Time Mistress]

Yeah, the Wolvie & Nightcrawler friendship is mainly just in the comics. I mean they get along fine in the cartoons, just not at the level they do in the comics.

Mike uses a katana as well as his nunchuck in issue 17 in the comics in a story he is writing.

As for who would be best at whose's weapons. First off, I think they ALL would at least be at "black belt level" in all four of those weapons.

Beyond that, bo was probably the first weapon Splinter started them all on. I see Don being the type to want to be the ultimate master in his weapon over becoming too diversified. It's one thing to know beginer bo katas that everyone seems to know vs. seeing a master who knows this weapon. The bo is a deceptive weapon making you think that it is easily mastered, but it's not. Don would want to study his weapon inside out I think rather than devote himself to being a "jack of all trades." He leaves the variety for his inventing. That said, Donny has show some considerable skill in throwing weapons.

I see Leo as also wanting to be the ulitmate master of his weapon, but for different reasons that Don, or partly anyway. Yes, Leo is the most studious student, etc, etc. But simply put, Leo just loves swords. There are some students who even though they practice diligently in all weapons, they have one that will always be their favorite, the weapon that they were dying to use since their first martial arts lesson. The weapon that if they never learned another weapon ever, they would be perfectly happy with the one that is their favorite. That is Leo. Leo is probably more skilled in the weapons he learned before Splinter started them on swords than any he learned after, because as far as Leo is concerned swords are the ultimate weapon.

I see Mikey as more wanting to diversify. We've probably seen Mike use more weapons than the other 3, partly for censorship reasons,but I think it also fits his personality. With his short attention span, I see Mike exited to learn any new weapon, but once that weapon is learned, he'd rather move on to another exciting new weapon rather than practice the old ones over and over. That would be too boring. That's why Mike does double chucks, tonfa, steel whip, and archery at least. Mike has his favorite weapon of course, but I aslo think he likes variety where as Don and Leo rely more on tried and true.

Raph I see as liking variety as well, but I think it's fueled more by his competitive side. I see Raph for some reason on being the last of the four to find his favorite weapon. Raph would want to try everything first to see what he was best at, and also posibly what weapon he could be better than Leo at (or would best counter Leo's beloved favorite swords), before settling on a favorite. Like Mike, Raph is more likely to try out different weapons such as archery and some sort of chain weapon we will se him use in the new movie tomorrow. He also of course has skill in throwing weapons too.