Real News!

[Chris]

Just got an email back from Dan and he told me the following three things;

He's had no confirmation regarding the plans to split the current season into two. (IMO it doesn't seem likely any more but I thought I'd ask for confirmation)

I asked about the future of TMNT after epsiode 143 and he replied that as far as he knows more episodes of Fast Forward are in development, so there will be new episodes to look forward to later this year (especially if they keep up with the recent quality increase).

Sadly he does not know when Peter Laird will be returning to Vol. 4 of the comic.

[CyberCubed]

Well, it seems obvious that 4kids is airing all 26 eps of FF as a single season rather than splitting it in two. (Thank god)

However, it looks like we're getting another season of FF.

So instead of FF being a mere 26 episode series...it may end up being a 52 episode series if the second season has 26 eps as well.

Well, the earliest they'll get home is Season 8, I guess. I don't see them doing a third FF season...52 eps in the future is enough.

[Chris]

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it is 39 or 52 episodes in total, though I think they'll do 26 unless they plan a more focused story arc like Ninja Tribunal was (which seems very unlikely as Fast Forward is meant to have stand alone episodes rather than long multi-part arcs).

[Whitewolf89]

Well, at least this is REAL news about FF, instead of the horribly cruel April Fool's "joke" that X played on everyone in HIS "news" thread. Was NOT amused by that, I can tell you that!

And 52 eps of FF is fine with me. At least the series IS continueing.

Although I DO wish that they'd go back to the 2k3 animation. Oh, well.....................

As for when Pete's gonna get back to Volume 4 of the comic, I was under the empression that he had to finish up with the TMNT moviw stuff, THEN he'd be back to doing the comic.

Hmmm, wonder what's going on?

[Zachatello00]

Something we should all be prepared for though, is that even if/when the boys go home, or more appropriatly, when FF ends, it's pretty likely that we will never see them return to the original format. 4Kids does this with like, all of their shows. That's kinda how they immortalize them I guess. Pokemon, for example, has gone through so many format changes (Pokemon, Pokemon Johto, Pokemon Advanced, Pokemon Battle Frontier) just to name a few, and that show's been going since what, 1998?

Who knows, the next format could be something like TMNT: Blast to the Past

or somethin' like that.

[Chris]

I'm hoping that if they have to rebrand the show once they return to the present they rebrand it as simply TMNT (like Vol.4 and the new movie). Maybe take the movies approach, let a year or so have passed and the TMNT have drifted a little, maybe do the Utrom landing (either in the missing year or so or at the start of the season) and show the TMNT adjusting to a new world and new threats in their own time (like how Bishop would initially react to aliens being welcomed on Earth).

Some of the ideas in the Journal (Leo with the Tribunal, Raph being vigilante with Casey, Don working with April, Mike doing more with the JF) could be explored properly, without them going wrong to teach the TMNT a lesson (they could have been whats been happening in the missing time if they do set the rebrand a year or so later).

That's what I'd like anyway.

As for animation I doubt we'll get the old style back as the new style is cheaper and easier to animate, though we might get it refined slightly (hopefully improve the TMNT's heads!).

[Roseangelo]

No more Utroms!!

[Ra]

Oh lordy...52 episodes? *sighs* As long as there is no more after that. I think I might be sick if more episodes are put into production. Then again, it could get better. I think I might be a victim of false hope, but from the response the last two episodes received, the series is getting better. There maybe a chance that the series will get back to it's dark roots after all... *sighs again*

[Spacefille]

Invader Zim time! "Doomed, doomed, doomed, doomed, doomed..."

And then when FF goes down the drain, studio execs will sit there and scratch their heads, then shrug and say "It's just the changing market that made it so no one liked it anymore" and that will close that chapter of Ninja Turtle history.

I pulled out an old Next Mutation VHS today and watched half an episode before I had to turn it off. It reminded me of the last time I thought "doomed" when I watched something to do with TMNT...

I'm horribly bitter and disappointed by the way. The above is extremely sarcastic and... yeah. I want to cry. -__-; Maybe someone or something will prove me wrong? *hopeful look*

[Jo Dawn]

Spacefille completely sums up my feelings. When this gets cancelled, it'll be blamed on the fact that it's TMNT, and it will never occur to them that they could have IMPROVED on this cartoon.

I'm still confused as to why they seem to get the short end of the stick (no pun intended), and be considered the most kiddish of kid's cartoons. Kids loved Batman, and it was more mature. Most cartoons aren't afraid to be more mature than TMNT is allowed to be.

Just another injustice of the world.

[The Shelf]

Spacefille completely sums up my feelings. When this gets cancelled, it'll be blamed on the fact that it's TMNT, and it will never occur to them that they could have IMPROVED on this cartoon.

I'm still confused as to why they seem to get the short end of the stick (no pun intended), and be considered the most kiddish of kid's cartoons. Kids loved Batman, and it was more mature. Most cartoons aren't afraid to be more mature than TMNT is allowed to be.

Just another injustice of the world.

But they're cute, cuddly turtles. Who wants to see ninja turtles actually behave like ninja turtles? Such a concept is beyond people's comprehension. :dead:

[Bry]

Honestly, I think they would have done well to just run repeats for a while instead of the format switch. I can see most people - adults and kids - who sit down with "Fast Forward" after seeing the movie just being confused and annoyed with a show that's absolutely nothing like what they were expecting. If I didn't know about the 2K3 series before the movie hit and tuned into an episode of FF afterwards, I imagine I'd just turn it off in disappointment.

I dunno, it just seems to me like 4Kids jumped at a "quick fix" idea that ultimately only stood to ruin any cohesive marketing of the franchise - especially when the better episodes of the 2K3 series click with the movie almost perfectly. I figure if they had instead invested in another major season of the original 2K3 format to launch around the time of the movie, they could potentially have ridden on the movie hype and seen a decent ratings boost.

(Of course, this is all just speculation...)

[odupianist]

Here is the email I got from Mr. Berger back in Febraury. My questions have the arrows in front of them...

Howdy Keith,

> How come the Fast Forward season looks different than the old
> material? I mean, the TMNT look different, more cartoony. I liked
> the look and feel of pre-Fast Forward. Why the change?

Unfortunately after four seasons the ratings and merchandise sales
for the show were declining, so a change was implemented to make the
series more "kid friendly" in hopes that it would garner a larger
audience.

> Will it change back after Fast Forward?

The future is currently undecided, although several options are being
discussed. It's unlikely that the series will return to its original
state due to the failing TV ratings and merch sales - but never say
never.

Thanks for writing!

I don't know how much that helps. I think if the studio execs spent actual time working and researching their material and the fan base, they would be able to work something out. Oh, here's an idea I just thought of...

Keep the darker original 2k3 series going on Cartoon Network or something, like their Adult Swim. Then do kiddy versions, like FF, on Fox or something like that. Who knows. Just an idea. It'd probably be too many universes and story arcs for us to keep up with hah

[Sage Ninja]

they are going with more Fast Foward after this batch of episodes ends...WTF! I was really hoping that this nightmare would be over and done with after these 26 episodes and we might get the boys home to their own f*cking time!

What ever, this just blew my last little bit of faith in this series. With out classic 2k3 TMNT to keep my interest I just may go on to other interests like I did over twelve years ago when CBS changed the format of the old toon TMNT into Red Sky, and leave the turtles behind.

But this sucks, after getting my fandom in the turtles rekindled after a twelve year dormancy, I feel i've been spat in the face to have the rug pulled out from under me with this change the damn network has insisted on. I guess all I have to look forward to is the rest of the dvd releases of the 90's TMNT series.

SCREW YOU 4KIDS!!!

[GK Punk]

Yes, it's 4Kids fault that the 2k3 TMNT was failing in ratings and toys sales. keep telling yourself that.

[X]

Well after season 2 of FF that's when they're getting brought home. Point blank us fans are either going to HELP screw over any chances of their being a season when the boys get home, from a lack of people watching FF, or there may be a chance if we continue to support it.

I will keep watching FF, which I never minded. Had I hated FF as much as some here, I would still watch it so that would show 4Kids I want Turtle episodes after they arrive home. It works both ways, wether you want to believe it or not.

-X-

[GK Punk]

At this point the best thing to do IS Suppourt TMNT Fast Forward. Boycotting it or trying to make it fail will only harm any future TMNT projects. Hell, If FF Gets canceled and they don't bring the old format back there's a really good chance that We won't get a Sequel to the current TMNT movie. All of these things are tied together. If TMNT is doing bad, producers will pull their money and we won't get another TMNT revival untill it's once again a nostalgia thing.

[CyberCubed]

What ever, this just blew my last little bit of faith in this series. With out classic 2k3 TMNT to keep my interest I just may go on to other interests like I did over twelve years ago when CBS changed the format of the old toon TMNT into Red Sky, and leave the turtles behind.

And how was that a bad thing?

Seasons 8-10 brought back the action and continuity that Seasons 1-3 mostly had, made the show overall darker and we had more interesting plots. Granted Season 7 was really excellent too, but we still had better continuity there than Seasons 4-6.

[X]

Sad thing is Michi, is I have been stating that for a while now.

If everyone poos all over TMNT:FF they cannot garner enough attention to keep the franchise afloat, and personally I don't want to see a world without TMNT for another 5 or so years, if that, due to people not supporting it. However, to each their own. I will continue to support TMNT so that I can hope to see a sequel to TMNT, and another season of TMNT after they get home, and know that I wasn't contributing to the TMNT downfall because I'm walking to 4Kids with a pitchfork and torch, yelling TMNT:FF sucks.

I personally look forward to seeing more TMNT in the future, and I hope I can say it was partly me and others who supported TMNT in all iterations (except comics for me, I don't read any comics,) that made it happen. Then the bandwagon fans can come back and cheer for the TMNT they all know and love and act like they never hated it. 8)

-X-

[Ra]

At this point the best thing to do IS Suppourt TMNT Fast Forward. Boycotting it or trying to make it fail will only harm any future TMNT projects. Hell, If FF Gets canceled and they don't bring the old format back there's a really good chance that We won't get a Sequel to the current TMNT movie. All of these things are tied together. If TMNT is doing bad, producers will pull their money and we won't get another TMNT revival untill it's once again a nostalgia thing.
So, basically, what you are saying is "we are stuck", right? That's how I see it, anyway. If we watch Fast Forward, we will be helping the TMNT fandom and possibly help restore the cartoon to it's former glory, even though the majority of us hate Fast Forward. However, if we don't watch it, we will be destroying the chances of everything to be restored. This really is a dark day for the 2k3 series of TMNT... *sighs*

[Spitfire]

I'm still confused as to why they seem to get the short end of the stick (no pun intended), and be considered the most kiddish of kid's cartoons. Kids loved Batman, and it was more mature. Most cartoons aren't afraid to be more mature than TMNT is allowed to be.

Because Batman came out in the 90's when you were allowed to show blood and have handguns in your cartoons.

This TMNT show that is out now came out when kids are only allowed to watch brain dead crap like Winx Club and Sponge Bob.

Action cartoons are far and few apart. And Ben 10 is about as mature as your going to get. You saw how much they cut the fighting down. There used to be huge brawls in TMNT now it's next to none if any. Parents are to lame now. They blame their kids misbehavior on TV and video games instead of their ****** parenting skills.

"DUH my kids violent cause watches Ninja Turtles and plays Grand Theft Auto!"

Correct Version
"My kids violent because I spoil them and don't monitor what TV shows they watch and what video games they play"

[GK Punk]

This TMNT show that is out now came out when kids are only allowed to watch brain dead crap like Winx Club and Sponge Bob.


Winx Club > You

[Sage Ninja]

Yes, it's 4Kids fault that the 2k3 TMNT was failing in ratings and toys sales. keep telling yourself that.

quit the lectures already, seriously just give it a rest. I can't speak for every one else but I was doing my part in keeping the orginal 2k3 series alive by watching it. And the reason I was watching it was because I was enjoying it. Then they pulled the rug out from under me and changed every thing I liked about it. So thats why i'm not watching it any more because i'm not enjoying it. If you like FF and think 4kids did us all a big favor by changing the show to help ratings that is fine, but don't patranise me.

And how was that a bad thing?

Seasons 8-10 brought back the action and continuity that Seasons 1-3 mostly had, made the show overall darker and we had more interesting plots. Granted Season 7 was really excellent too, but we still had better continuity there than Seasons 4-6.

again to each his or her own. I didn't care for Red Sky because of the abrupt and drasitic the change it made in its premise. I like serious and more continuity heavy story lines too and I felt season seven was a good for that in a not so drastic way. And I don't know why its theme couldn't have stayed that way. But what ever that is what I felt.

[GK Punk]

I HATE FF. It's just completely ridiculous that you blame the company for the things you are. They tried to make TMNT 2k3 a success, it's not their fault it was starting to fail.

This reminds me of those guys at he-man.org than ran around yelling "MATELL KILLED TEH LIEN".

and it's spelled patronize.

[Spitfire]

Winx Club > You

This is the Drome not GameFAQs. If you want to get all bent over someones opinions I suggest you go over there.

[GK Punk]

This is the Drome not GameFAQs. If you want to get all bent over someones opinions I suggest you go over there.

I really suggest you learn how to get a sense of humor. I seem to forgot that you don't ****ing have one. And if you don't like it when people disagree with you opinions, especially in an obviously joking manner, then you probably shouldn't state your opinions then.

[Spitfire]

I really suggest you learn how to get a sense of humor. I seem to forgot that you don't ****ing have one. And if you don't like it when people disagree with you opinions, especially in an obviously joking manner, then you probably shouldn't state your opinions then.

I have a great sense of humor. I'm just used to people being hostile towards me on here so I take offense to everything.

So I was wrong, I'm sorry.

[GK Punk]

yeah, same. just flew off the handle because of a different reason to tell the truth. Just ended up getting taken out on you it seems. sorry.

[raphaelprime]

They tried to make TMNT 2k3 a success, it's not their fault it was starting to fail.


I think it is their fault a little bit atleast, and heres why, First of all their going by rating, ratings arent the best way anymore to see how many viewers(or people willing to watch your show) you have. Sure its good sometimes, but they only take ratings from select markets. DVD sales would be more accurate. Or perhaps how many people download it on the internet or watch it on youtube or some other streaming site.

Also, their only airing their shows in select markets, If they aired them in more areas they would probably have more viewers. I mean, it doesnt even air here, and theres usually hardly any figures on the racks at WalMart, and the closest place around here that airs 4Kids is Charlotte(an hour drive away from me).

[Spitfire]

yeah, same. just flew off the handle because of a different reason to tell the truth. Just ended up getting taken out on you it seems. sorry.

I hear that, work was murder today.

[GK Punk]

please tell me you didn't just say we should judge sucsess by youtube and downloads? That HURTS the TMNT Franchise as a whole. And not by 4Kids fault, by ours. Anyone who downloads them or watches them on youtube does do damage to the series. That's less money, and possibly ratings which = Failure for the TMNT.

As for "It's not in my area" That's also not 4kids Fault. That's the fault of your local stations. 4Kids has no say over that. Your local Afilliate chose not to air the 4Kids block. 4Kids didn't chose not to show it.

Toys not showing up in your area, again has nothing to do with 4K. Your local stores have to ORDER them before carrying them. If there was a company at fault, it would possibly be Playmates. But that would mean they turned down order for the figures, which I seriously doubt they'd do. Who ever is handling the ordering for Toys at your local stores is choosing not to order them.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

At this point the best thing to do IS Suppourt TMNT Fast Forward. Boycotting it or trying to make it fail will only harm any future TMNT projects. Hell, If FF Gets canceled and they don't bring the old format back there's a really good chance that We won't get a Sequel to the current TMNT movie. All of these things are tied together. If TMNT is doing bad, producers will pull their money and we won't get another TMNT revival untill it's once again a nostalgia thing.

Look, at this point, I'd rather the show die than ever support FF. I'd rather wait another 8 years for another revival than support crap. At this point, no one (except for Kevin Muroe and Thomas K. Gray) knows how to handle TMNT because ALL production studios are run by idiots. Instead of trying to shake the kidde stigma, 4 Kids is reinforcing it, which could be attributed to why box office sales are so low for the movie. I'd hope for it to move to another network, but really, there is no other network that can gaurentee success.

[Spitfire]

FF isn't that bad jesus. You make it sound like Next Mutation.

[GK Punk]

That's a very good point, and actually if you don't care for TMNT's immiedete future, then you probably should abandon for now. I'm just saying if you are going to ever want to see them go back home, the ONLY chance is if FF does well. If you want to see another movie, you should probably support it. But it's up to you, no answer is the right answer.

I just dont think you should abandon the TMNT Fandom as a whole. There's plenty more TMNT out there to enjoy. (Unless you just don't care about TMNT anymore. Then abandon away :P)
I mean look at me, I have Will from W.i.t.c.h. as an Avatar. That show's practically cancelled.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

FF isn't that bad jesus. You make it sound like Next Mutation.

Because it's basically the second coming of Next mutation. I can't find anything redemable about that piece of **** show other than the fact that it'll eventually end.

I just dont think you should abandon the TMNT Fandom as a whole. There's plenty more TMNT out there to enjoy. (Unless you just don't care about TMNT anymore. Then abandon away )

I'm not abandoning TMNT fandom, thats the last thing I'd ever do. But I'm just saying, I'd rather they not do another TMNT until things stop being so damn buttoned down and kid friendly.

[GK Punk]

It doesn't have Venus. Pow! Redeemable quality!

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

It doesn't have Venus. Pow! Redeemable quality!

Yes, but Cody and Serling combined are just as excruciating.

[Spitfire]

Because it's basically the second coming of Next mutation. I can't find anything redemable about that piece of **** show other than the fact that it'll eventually end.

You only watched the first 3 episodes didn't you? That is exactly how I was until Put talked me into watching some other episodes and then I grew to accept it, not LIKE it, but accept it. And I hear it's getting better.

So why not give it a chance. If you sit down thinking "This sucks, this sucks this sucks this sucks" The whole time you watch it and not go in with an open mind of course your not going to like it.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

You only watched the first 3 episodes didn't you? That is exactly how I was until Put talked me into watching some other episodes and then I grew to accept it, not LIKE it, but accept it. And I hear it's getting better.

So why not give it a chance. If you sit down thinking "This sucks, this sucks this sucks this sucks" The whole time you watch it and not go in with an open mind of course your not going to like it.

I've seen more than the first 3 episodes, and it still hasn't gotten better. If the horrid animation doesn't drive me off the annoying dialouge does.

I've tried to like it, I wish I could like it, but I can't. I can't even except it becuase it's basically raping my beloved Turtles.

[Ninja Tiptup]

Fast Forward isn't a bad cartoon. The problem is that 2K3 was a GREAT cartoon and Fast Forward just isn't anywhere near as good. I watch it anyway though. Heck guys I didn't hate Next Mutation.

[GK Punk]

Fast Forward isn't a bad cartoon. The problem is that 2K3 was a GREAT cartoon and Fast Forward just isn't anywhere near as good. I watch it anyway though. Heck guys I didn't hate Next Mutation.

I'm putting my foot down, we're not burning him at the stake.:lol:

But yeah, it just doesn't compare to 2k3. Like at all. That's it's major problem. It's like switching Coke to New Coke back in the 80s. New Coke was fine, but no one wanted it, we wanted Original Coke!

I'm old, I know

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

It's just that if things continue to be like this in the future, with everything being so buttoned down and PC, and network execs not allowing writters and animators to do real innovative stuff, then I'd rather they never do another TMNT cartoon again. It'll either get the 2K3 treatment or it'll turn out a big mess.

If thats going to be the case then just stop with the cartoons and focus on the comic books.

[GK Punk]

To tell the truth, they'll need to aim at a completley different audiance rather than Saturday mornings. As much as I hate Cartoon Network and Adult Swim, something like that would be better suited for TMNT.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

To tell the truth, they'll need to aim at a completley different audiance rather than Saturday mornings. As much as I hate Cartoon Network and Adult Swim, something like that would be better suited for TMNT.

Not Cartoon Network's daytime block. It'll never go past 52 episodes. Adult Swim maybe, but they're action line-up is all anime.

[Juniorx]

i hope this isn't bad news for the turtles again.only if there's a way spliting up the show as in putting 2k3 and lost season on to toonnami so they could continue that one.ff on 4kids for the kiddy's.cause we have big fanbase they should know that and we take this seriously.if thats bad idea my bad for coming up with it.just don't like to see our turtles going back to oblivion again.wonder what they are going do to this series.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I think they know we take it seriously, they just don't care.

[GK Punk]

Not Cartoon Network's daytime block. It'll never go past 52 episodes. Adult Swim maybe, but they're action line-up is all anime.

Adult Swim is what I meant. I was just stating I hate cartoon network including Adult Swim.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Like I said, they're action block is all anime. They'd have a hell of a time getting it on there.

[GK Punk]

Oh is it now? I'll be honest, I haven't watched Adult Swim in about 2 or 3 years.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Oh is it now? I'll be honest, I haven't watched Adult Swim in about 2 or 3 years.

Aw man you're missing out. Venture Bros, Frisky Dingo, Moral Orel, Time and Eric's Awesome show. All great.

[Juniorx]

is there another anime network.or im mistaken toonami.

[VaughnMichael]

I think it is their fault a little bit atleast, and heres why, First of all their going by rating, ratings arent the best way anymore to see how many viewers(or people willing to watch your show) you have. Sure its good sometimes, but they only take ratings from select markets. DVD sales would be more accurate. Or perhaps how many people download it on the internet or watch it on youtube or some other streaming site.

Also, their only airing their shows in select markets, If they aired them in more areas they would probably have more viewers. I mean, it doesnt even air here, and theres usually hardly any figures on the racks at WalMart, and the closest place around here that airs 4Kids is Charlotte(an hour drive away from me).
actully thats not the only reason I fallow playmates sales of the figures very closely and the lines sales have been dropping since the first year of the turtles return.

[raphaelprime]

Michi, im sorry, i didnt mean for all that to come out that way exactly. By the comment about Youtube views and downloads, i meant, that they could see how many people were actually watching and interested in it other than the ratings only showing select markets. And in some cases possibly interest people in buying the dvds(i know highly unlikely, but it could). But i was merely meaning it as a way to see a more accurate number of an audiance, even though it might not be the best way to find out, it could still be a better number of viewers than their ratings.

Example, Greensboro, Winston-Salem and High Point, could all equal up to the size of Charlotte(dont hold me to specific pop. numbers im just guessing lol) where they do get 4KidsTV, could possibly have double the amount of TMNT fans that Charlotte has, and they wouldnt really know much, except through DVD sales.

And yes it could be my local Fox station's fault aswell, but when i asked someone who works there if they could get it, she said they never recieved any kind of notice about it and would have to check to see if it was avalible for our area since they didnt. Plus when i looked at most of the places its offered on their website, i saw larger cities and ones that offered them ratings, and judging by that i figured they didnt care about non-ratings areas, and also from looking at those amount of cities, it feels like(to me) its shown all over 19 states, with the rest not ever seeing it(so to speak), except maybe online or dvd, and then the dvds are never known about without ads, and those ads would most likely air during their shows.

As for the toys part, that just simply slipped in, i know thats playmates, and i know my local wally world is ordering them cause they have 5 pegs horizontally and 4 pegs vertically(roughly). And yes, i also know that maybe their just not keeping them stocked, but that too would be sorta weird, with them just leaving empty space with nothing filled lol.

Again, i know its not the best way or most ethical, and i didnt mean for it to seem that way, im sorry. It was just simply an idea i've always had as an alternate way to do the (to me) poor ratings system. And honestly, i think theres a little more they could have possibly done to encourage Fox affiliates to air their shows for them.

[VaughnMichael]

Because it's basically the second coming of Next mutation. I can't find anything redemable about that piece of **** show other than the fact that it'll eventually end.
I swear you really become more ignorant every time you post.
But I'm just saying, I'd rather they not do another TMNT until things stop being so damn buttoned down and kid friendly.
Seriously I think that's one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
Have you friggin forgotten what made the Turtle popular in the first damn place man you really need a history lesson on this franchise.
I like the damn dark side of tmnt btw before you even start BUT to say you'd wish they would stop being so kid friendly is a futile thing because it will NEVER EVER happen.
To believe it wont ever be for kids is foolish.
Yes, but Cody and Serling combined are just as excruciating.
Hardly neither one of them are mentally retarded like she was.
I've seen more than the first 3 episodes, and it still hasn't gotten better. If the horrid animation doesn't drive me off the annoying dialouge does.
I've tried to like it, I wish I could like it, but I can't. I can't even except it becuase it's basically raping my beloved Turtles.
Actually it has gotten better but that's all a matter of opinion but I really don't respect yours because you run around like a flaming lunatic. Maybe if you posted your opinions with a little more cooth.
And btw Buster it's not animation it's ART STYLE. I'm so F%CKING sick of people saying that.
Btw your beloved turtles mmhmm you do know they don't belong to you right.
Still you're forgetting about the 80's and what made tmnt popular it's very foolish.
I think they know we take it seriously, they just don't care.
They don't because the show isn't for "adults".
And if Peter and everyone else involved really wanted it to be for "adults" he would have done so from the start.
And 2k3 is hardly for adults. It sure as hell may be better than FF but it is still not for "adults".
Aw man you're missing out. Venture Bros, Frisky Dingo, Moral Orel, Time and Eric's Awesome show. All great.
It's all really a matter of opinion like your costant bashing of FF I think those shows are stupid and crappy.
I'll Take Aquateen & Squid Billys any day over that junk.

[GK Punk]

The reason ratings is more important than download/youtube counts is simply money. it could be the best and most watched upload on youtube or Fserved on IRC, but they'l never see a dime for it. If they don't get the money for it, they won't be able to make anymore.

I mean, Keep in Mind Winx Club gets better ratings and has higher merchandise sales and is on the same channel, EARLIER in the morning than TMNT. So theres no reason that TMNT shouldn't be able to live up to their expectations. wouldn't go as far as saying TMNT failed, but I would say it didn't live up to 4Kids, and Fox's expectations in terms of revenue and viewership being brought in by the show. That's first and foremost to them. With out that revenue, the show just can't happen.

[ToTheNines]

actully thats not the only reason I fallow playmates sales of the figures very closely and the lines sales have been dropping since the first year of the turtles return.

Where do you look to find that stuff out?

[odupianist]

First off, I've only been here maybe a week and you all bicker worse than married couples. I've seen more bickering and negative comments towards other users than I have posts about the TMNT. If it weren't for the TMNT, I would have left this site along time ago. Granted, I know people aren't always going to agree and it's tough to realize when someone is joking over the internet, but jeez people. You all are pissy beyond belief. For those who apologized to each other, I commend you. I have a higher respect for you than the others who all of sudden call others ignorant. Anyways, back on topic...

If we watch Fast Forward, we will be helping the TMNT fandom and possibly help restore the cartoon to it's former glory, even though the majority of us hate Fast Forward.

Honestly, I think it's a double edged sword. Ratings can go up for FF (higher than 2k3, dont know how but still, hypothetically here people) and the execs will be like "hmm people like this, let's stick with it". Or ratings can go up, not as high as 2k3, and they can say either 1) ok cancel it or 2) let's go back and just try it. I think option 1 is more likely.

there is no other network that can gaurentee success.

I started reading this from the very beginning, but then you all said it later, Cartoon Network. The Adult Swim line up (whether you like it or not) would be very well suited for the 2k3 series or even a more darker version.

I grew to accept it, not LIKE it, but accept it.

Same.

Youtube views and downloads

I'll admit, I have watched it on Youtube for a variety of reasons. I'm bored at work adn want to watch them lol. Or, I don't have the Ninja Tribunal DVD yet and watched it. I will, however, buy the DVD when it comes to the US. I promise

Have you friggin forgotten what made the Turtle popular in the first damn place man you really need a history lesson on this franchise.

Actually, the sellings of the first comic made the TMNT popular. The 80's cartoon made it available to a wider audience. The first comic went really quick. That first comic, as we all know, was quite dark. I still love reading it.

[VaughnMichael]

Where do you look to find that stuff out?
i'd rather not have everyone know. But I'll send you a p.m.:)
Actually, the sellings of the first comic made the TMNT popular. The 80's cartoon made it available to a wider audience. The first comic went really quick. That first comic, as we all know, was quite dark. I still love reading it.
It's true but at the same time it isn't sure the old mirage comics shockingly did well. But what put tmnt on the map was the kid friendly show and movie reguardless of what people want to believe. Peter Laird and Eastman while not happy with the way things went will even admit this.
The comics are still dark I'm one of the few people who like just about every TMNT version we've gotten so far.
And I don't want to bicker or seem pissy I'm just so damn sick of the bashing allready they've stated their cases they don't need to bring it up for 2 damn years now. It's like ok 2k3 is better we all know it now get over it allready.

[GK Punk]

First off, I've only been here maybe a week and you all bicker worse than married couples. I've seen more bickering and negative comments towards other users than I have posts about the TMNT. If it weren't for the TMNT, I would have left this site along time ago. Granted, I know people aren't always going to agree and it's tough to realize when someone is joking over the internet, but jeez people. You all are pissy beyond belief. For those who apologized to each other, I commend you. I have a higher respect for you than the others who all of sudden call others ignorant. Anyways, back on topic...

Welcome to the magical land of the internets. I could send you in the direction of several forums/sites that have 20x more fighting or elitism than here. The fighting gets old, yes but a lot of what happens around here is more of heated discussions than "Fighting". (not saying Fighting doesn't happen, just saying heated discussions are more common around here lately) and you'd be pretty pissy too if you had to deal with what I've had to in my personal life lately, just to be attacked for an obvious joke. Spit only didn't realize it because people tend to disagree with him a lot around here, I guess he just thought I was the latest person to do that.

Look at this place like a family. most of us have been here for 4 years or so, so We bicker, we make up, we have fun, wash rinse repeat. Things like this tend to happen then end pretty quickly.

Honestly, I think it's a double edged sword. Ratings can go up for FF (higher than 2k3, dont know how but still, hypothetically here people) and the execs will be like "hmm people like this, let's stick with it". Or ratings can go up, not as high as 2k3, and they can say either 1) ok cancel it or 2) let's go back and just try it. I think option 1 is more likely.


The point I was trying to make was, if FF fails there's a very good chance the next TMNT movie will not get made. I'm not saying support it to save the show, or because they'll get back to the old format. Obviously, there is very little chance it will ever go back to the original format. Even if they go back to current time in New York.

Of course, the chances are higher they'd be willing to return to the old format after FF if it does well, than if it failed. But as I said, even still that's an unlikely scenario.


I started reading this from the very beginning, but then you all said it later, Cartoon Network. The Adult Swim line up (whether you like it or not)

That's pretty much what i was trying to say up there. I hate Adult Swim but TMNT2k3 would be much better suited to that audience than a Saturday Morning slot. Wouldn't that be awesome if they could give us both shows? 2k3 on Adult Swim, FF for the kids on Saturdays. Ah, a Utopian society with TMNT for all.


And Puterecent, can you send me that PM to? Is there a way to find out how well other lines are selling?

[odupianist]

I think I had mentioned that somewhere else in another thread Michi. That would definitely be awesome.

[Bry]

I swear you really become more ignorant every time you post.

...

Seriously I think that's one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
He's stating his personal opinions and preferences. How does that make him "ignorant"?

You can disagree with what he has to say, but that doesn't mean his opinions are based on a lack of knowledge or understanding. It just means he sees things differently than you.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I swear you really become more ignorant every time you post.

Oh sorry for insulting a piece of **** show. You're right, I should be down on my kness praising the **** out of it. Suck a dildo.

Seriously I think that's one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
Have you friggin forgotten what made the Turtle popular in the first damn place man you really need a history lesson on this franchise.
I like the damn dark side of tmnt btw before you even start BUT to say you'd wish they would stop being so kid friendly is a futile thing because it will NEVER EVER happen.
To believe it wont ever be for kids is foolish.

I remember what made the TMNT popular. But have YOU forgotten that the same things that made it popular, also made them jokes and nothing but lame 80's nostaligia. I know kids will love it, but it shouldn't always have to be nothing but bad jokes and pizza, it can be more. Batman TAS and even Avatar the Last Airbender are proof of that.

Hardly neither one of them are mentally retarded like she was.

They're nothing but bad throwbacks to the era of annoying sidekicks of the 80's like Snarf and the white kid that followed around Mr. T.

Actually it has gotten better but that's all a matter of opinion but I really don't respect yours because you run around like a flaming lunatic. Maybe if you posted your opinions with a little more cooth.
And btw Buster it's not animation it's ART STYLE. I'm so F%CKING sick of people saying that.
Btw your beloved turtles mmhmm you do know they don't belong to you right.
Still you're forgetting about the 80's and what made tmnt popular it's very foolish.

Look, I don't go around flaming the show every god damn day, I'd rather pretend it didn't exsist. I have posted my opinions a rationallly as I can, sorry if thats not how you read it. And art style and the animation. They're both as stiff as Wilmer Valderama's acting. It doesn't take a genius to see that. They move sluggishly and the lifeless designs don't help it any.

They don't because the show isn't for "adults".
And if Peter and everyone else involved really wanted it to be for "adults" he would have done so from the start.
And 2k3 is hardly for adults. It sure as hell may be better than FF but it is still not for "adults".

When did I say it catered to ADULTS. It caters to everyone, I just wish that the show would reflect that more.

It's all really a matter of opinion like your costant bashing of FF I think those shows are stupid and crappy.
I'll Take Aquateen & Squid Billys any day over that junk

For the last damn time **** knocker, I don't constantly go around bashing **** Foward every chance I get, I prefer to not acknowledge it's exsistence altogether.

And Squidbillies sucks hard, and you have no taste in shows. That's MY opinion :D

[VaughnMichael]

He's stating his personal opinions and preferences. How does that make him "ignorant"?
You can disagree with what he has to say, but that doesn't mean his opinions are based on a lack of knowledge or understanding. It just means he sees things differently than you.
1. This show is hardly anywhere near as bad as the next mutation is. Especially when the entire series has not even finished yet.
2. I'm starting to think half these people whine and complain for the sake of seeming cool and doing so.
3. Opinions are fine in fact most people have them and they're like buttholes most of them stink.
4. He is "Ignorant" because what he says is "ignorant" as well as foolish. Want do talk about things Jumping the gun most of you are when the series hasn't even come full swing yet.
You are more than entitled by your opinion but I've grown tired of the constant nagging and complaining about things. We get it already you all hate it stop talking about it so those of us who at least someone still like tmnt can talk about it. Why not do something besides complaining week after week. Why don't the complainers write to Peter Laird the man who greenlit this little project? But they don't why? Because it's so much easier to do nothing and sit at a computer and complain rather than take the time and tell the heads about what you do and don't like. I'm not them and I'm sick of seeing it week after week regardless of opinions of not.
Yeah it was planed the entire time I'm sick of everyone blaming just one person also.
5. Let me repeat myself. Have you friggin forgotten what made the Turtle popular in the first damn place man you really need a history lesson on this franchise.
I like the damn dark side of tmnt BTW before you even start BUT to say you'd wish they would stop being so kid friendly is a futile thing because it will NEVER EVER happen.
To believe it wont ever be for kids is foolish.
6. To compare 2 intelligent characters to 1 moronic one when almost the rest of the cast of FF are idiotic is foolish and ignorant and just complaining for the sake of doing so.
I can find allot more wrong with this show than Codey & Serling.
7. The animation is not the problem it's the Art style and I wish people would stop saying that.
8. His beloved turtles are not his to do with whatever he pleases for almost the beginning of the turtles popularity company's abound have been raping our turtles as he so kindly put it.
They are a property that needs to pay the bills and they always over time make the show "kid friendly"
I'm sick of people acting like its something new.
9. To take a cartoon that seriously so much that you are angered that it's different is a bit scary.
We get that you miss 2k3 (hell I miss it also) but we don't need to here it every opportunity you get to diss another show.
10. He is ignorant and a hypocrite in the fact that he feels it ok to bash other things but when someone comes along and dislikes something he does he fly's off the handle. At least I'm taking the time to talk about and annoyingly repeat myself.
11. I'm honestly sick as hell over talking about this I've kept my mouth shut for some time now and enough is anough allready.

[Bry]

1. This show is hardly anywhere near as bad as the next mutation is. Especially when the entire series has not even finished yet.
Okay, I'm gonna stop you right there. I'm not going to respond to the rest of your statements, as this is really the only point I want to make (and I don't have enough time). What you're stating here is an opinion, but you seem to be stating is as if it's a fact. Clearly, not everyone agrees.

As well, it's understood that the series hasn't finished and it could very well improve significantly before all it said and done, but it's impossible to judge something based on what may occur. What we have currently is naturally what one will base their opinions on, and if they feel it's sub-par, then that's that.

5. Let me repeat myself. Have you friggin forgotten what made the Turtle popular in the first damn place man you really need a history lesson on this franchise.
I like the damn dark side of tmnt BTW before you even start BUT to say you'd wish they would stop being so kid friendly is a futile thing because it will NEVER EVER happen.
To believe it wont ever be for kids is foolish.
Again, this is in response to someone stating a preference for something less kid-oriented. It doesn't matter if it's "unrealistic". It's a personal preference - nothing less, nothing more.

Ultimately, I think it's silly to get into an overblown argument over this. I'm of the mindset that if you like the show in its current incarnation then you should watch and enjoy it, and if you don't... then don't. Obviously the format switch is very controversial amongst the fans, but fighting with one other over it just isn't productive to anything.

[VaughnMichael]

Oh sorry for insulting a piece of **** show. You're right, I should be down on my kness praising the **** out of it. Suck a dildo.
Wow real mature It's hardly my sow it's Peter Lairds show and for a fact people at mirage write the show.
You can say what you want about the show but enough is enough men you and everyone else have become annoying as hell and don't need to state the same facts everyone knows every post.
And no sorry I won't stoop to the levels you do I'm an adult.
I remember what made the TMNT popular. But have YOU forgotten that the same things that made it popular, also made them jokes and nothing but lame 80's nostaligia. I know kids will love it, but it shouldn't always have to be nothing but bad jokes and pizza, it can be more. Batman TAS and even Avatar the Last Airbender are proof of that.
Well, I'm glad you do remember that's why companies jump the gun and go down the road of making the show for kids. And I'm not sure if you know or not but dissing the 80's show on this forums is forbidden.
It may have made them jokes but I'm sure you and many others wouldn't even know what a Ninja Turtle was if that show had never been on the air. I'm also sick as hell of the disrespect people are showing it.
Sure and it should be more but as long as the networks and Peter Laird or whomever else for that matter feel that the show is for kids they will always do that. The toy box art for FF is proof enough of this with them talking about pizza they are supposed to hate pizza now.
Batman is taken seriously because it has all of those movies backing it up.
I'm not sure about Airbender I actually like that show so how's that for my taste? But it is goofy as well in fact it has moments just as silly and kid friendly as FF at times.
And btw We're talking about Ninja Turtles here not Batman or anything else.
They're nothing but bad throwbacks to the era of annoying sidekicks of the 80's like Snarf and the white kid that followed around Mr. T.
I can see where you can say that about Codey well at least for the most part but they've really changed him since the start of the show. Serling on the other hand gives witty commentary on how annoying the shows become as well as the turtles new moronic ways. It's sort of the writers way to say hey we hear you guys we don't like how the guys act anymore either. Oh BTW Snarf is awesome don't diss the Snarfman! lol
Look, I don't go around flaming the show every god damn day, I'd rather pretend it didn't exsist. I have posted my opinions a rationallly as I can, sorry if thats not how you read it. And art style and the animation. They're both as stiff as Wilmer Valderama's acting. It doesn't take a genius to see that. They move sluggishly and the lifeless designs don't help it any.
I wasn't talking about you don't feel so special. It was thrown out there to everyone it's gone on long enough.
And please don't take the lords name in vain it's more ignorant than the comments about me and others your making at a childish level.
You can do as you wish btw I'm not trying to tell you to do any differently but I'm sick and tired of sitting idly as everyone bashes the show when there are much worse things on the air. As well as much worse things from the turtles past. I'm sorry if you look at the dark side of things but me I look on the bright side.
And I really don't see it as a piece of "****" as you put it.
That's hardly true about the animation they aren't one in the same and that is really insulting to the animators who bust there humps on the show. I'd love to see you do something it'd look like it was ready for adult swim. And Wimer Valderama is an idiot. Yes, the designs are crap but that is not the same as animation. I'm not genius but I at least can tell the difference between style and animation.
When did I say it catered to ADULTS. It caters to everyone, I just wish that the show would reflect that more.
I didn't say you said that but you sure act like it should. I wish it would also but it's not going to not for a very long time anyway. So I say enjoy what we've had so far because it may be a very long time until you see something like that again. And you can't state whatever you like but when bashing is involved nuh uh I don't think so.
For the last damn time **** knocker, I don't constantly go around bashing **** Foward every chance I get, I prefer to not acknowledge it's exsistence altogether.
Oh yeah real mature making fun of some ones sexual preferance. Who said you constantly do that not me? You've done it with just about everything else though and when someone hasn't liked what you do you go off the handle and stoop to name calling as you are doing now. It just really shows your maturity level.
And Squidbillies sucks hard, and you have no taste in shows. That's MY opinion :D
It may suck in the animation department as well as style but the makes me laugh so there for I like it.
I've watched every other show on adult swim the only I care for these days are SquidBillies and Aqua Teen.
Hardly I have plenty good taste in shows my own taste and I hardly care if you think it's good.
If it's bad then so be it but at least it's mine.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

1. This show is hardly anywhere near as bad as the next mutation is. Especially when the entire series has not even finished yet.

Yes it is, in fact, in some aspects it's worse(at least NM kept them in the present)

2. I'm starting to think half these people whine and complain for the sake of seeming cool and doing so.

Dude, I hate the show because IT'S A BAD SHOW! If it was a good show, I wouldn't have a problem. But everything about sucks.

3. Opinions are fine in fact most people have them and they're like buttholes most of them stink.

Oh I get it, because I don't like what FF did, my opinion sucks.

4. He is "Ignorant" because what he says is "ignorant" as well as foolish. Want do talk about things Jumping the gun most of you are when the series hasn't even come full swing yet.
You are more than entitled by your opinion but I've grown tired of the constant nagging and complaining about things. We get it already you all hate it stop talking about it so those of us who at least someone still like tmnt can talk about it. Why not do something besides complaining week after week. Why don't the complainers write to Peter Laird the man who greenlit this little project? But they don't why? Because it's so much easier to do nothing and sit at a computer and complain rather than take the time and tell the heads about what you do and don't like. I'm not them and I'm sick of seeing it week after week regardless of opinions of not.
Yeah it was planed the entire time I'm sick of everyone blaming just one person also.

I'm ignorrant because I want there to be another renisance era of animation? Get real. If you want to talk about FF fine, I wont get involved, because I hate to show. And what am I supposed to do, write to PL and tell him to have FF pulled, yeah, like that will help. I'm not going to tell the man how to run his franchise. I'd ratehr just continue to not watch the show and let the people who like this crap, watch it.

5. Let me repeat myself. Have you friggin forgotten what made the Turtle popular in the first damn place man you really need a history lesson on this franchise.
I like the damn dark side of tmnt BTW before you even start BUT to say you'd wish they would stop being so kid friendly is a futile thing because it will NEVER EVER happen.
To believe it wont ever be for kids is foolish.

Dude, I know what made the TMNT popular, but let ME repeat myself by saying it also made them laughing stocks. That's why they're never taken seriously like other comic book heroes, the old series severley limited the range of the franchise. It can be more than just a kid franchise, the problem is that network execs don't see it that way.

6. To compare 2 intelligent characters to 1 moronic one when almost the rest of the cast of FF are idiotic is foolish and ignorant and just complaining for the sake of doing so.
I can find allot more wrong with this show than Codey & Serling.

Trust me, the whole cast is bad, but Cody and Serling are the worst.

7. The animation is not the problem it's the Art style and I wish people would stop saying that.

The animation AND art style is bad. The stiff designs and sluggish movements and lip syncing aren't winning this show any awards.

8. His beloved turtles are not his to do with whatever he pleases for almost the beginning of the turtles popularity company's abound have been raping our turtles as he so kindly put it.
They are a property that needs to pay the bills and they always over time make the show "kid friendly"
I'm sick of people acting like its something new.

That's why I wish they would stop with the TV shows and just focus on making the comics good. Like you said, studios will always try to turn them "kid friendly", thats why the comics never get any respect. People associate the Turtles with kiddie crap, and ignore the good storytelling and deep characters.

9. To take a cartoon that seriously so much that you are angered that it's different is a bit scary.
We get that you miss 2k3 (hell I miss it also) but we don't need to here it every opportunity you get to diss another show.

Once Again, I DO NOT MAKE IT MY ****ING LIFE'S MISSION TO RAG ON FF! I wouldn't be upset that it was different, if they did it good. Which they didn't.

10. He is ignorant and a hypocrite in the fact that he feels it ok to bash other things but when someone comes along and dislikes something he does he fly's off the handle. At least I'm taking the time to talk about and annoyingly repeat myself.

Dude, I'm not attacking anyones personal preferences, you are! Thats what your doing to me, you're attacking ME and calling ME ignorrant because I hate FF. Trust me, it's taking all the restraint I have to not flame your ass crazy.

11. I'm honestly sick as hell over talking about this I've kept my mouth shut for some time now and enough is anough allready.

I'm sick of you! Why don't you coninue to keep your mouth shut, it's the only time when you don't sound like a retard.

[VaughnMichael]

Okay, I'm gonna stop you right there. I'm not going to respond to the rest of your statements, as this is really the only point I want to make (and I don't have enough time). What you're stating here is an opinion, but you're stating is as if it's a fact. Clearly, not everyone agrees.

As well, it's understood that the series hasn't finished and it could very well improve significantly before all it said and done, but it's impossible to judge something based on what may occur. What we have currently is naturally what one will base their opinions on, and if they feel it's sub-par, then that's that.


Again, this is in response to someone stating a preference for something less kid-oriented. It doesn't matter if it's "unrealistic". It's a personal preference - nothing less, nothing more.

Ultimately, I think it's silly to get into an overblown argument over this. I'm of the mindset that if you like the show in its current incarnation then you should watch and enjoy it, and if you don't... then don't. Obviously the format switch is very controversial amongst the fans, but fighting with one other over it just isn't productive to anything.
Listen I'm not fighting with him just over FF he's gone onto other parts of the board starting things. Even if he's going down the road of name calling.
He acts so high and mighty it's annoying.
And you're just repeating the points I was trying to make.
I'm not trying to start some over blown war here but I'm sick and tired of it week after week from people I don't care who it is.
I Don't like every episode in fact I down right hate the first 2 episodes of fast forward. There's some from 2k3 I hate as well. Same goes for the 80's toon, next mutation and the comics.
The point is not everything is bad sure it's shocking that the show isn't the way it was. But allot of people felt that way if I remember correctly when 2k3 started as well.
We were all happy that it was close to Mirage but think about all those poor 80's toon fans who where dissed because they wish it at least involved the characters related.
Don't get me wrong guys I like 2k3 allot in fact more so than any other tmnt incarnation.
But to over and over week after week month after year go on and on about a show you hate without doing anything about it just seems fruitless.

[Bry]

And you're just repeating the points I was trying to make.
So if I'm making the same points about what you've said that you were trying to make about what he said... Well, I won't go any further. :)

I'm just saying, the bickering and name-calling is incredibly pointless, and it might be an idea to step back and cool off before it explodes into something worse. Just my two cents, and I'll say no more.

[VaughnMichael]

So if I'm making the same points about what you've said that you were trying to make about what he said... Well, I won't go any further. :)

I'm just saying, the bickering and name-calling is incredibly pointless, and it might be an idea to step back and cool off before it explodes into something worse. Just my two cents, and I'll say no more.
Well I have it's on his end of the court now.
Then he pm's me and sends me a photo of george bush flipping the bird.
Reaaalll mature thing to do.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Listen I'm not fighting with him just over FF he's gone onto other parts of the board starting things. Even if he's going down the road of name calling.
He acts so high and mighty it's annoying.
And you're just repeating the points I was trying to make.
I'm not trying to start some over blown war here but I'm sick and tired of it week after week from people I don't care who it is.
I Don't like every episode in fact I down right hate the first 2 episodes of fast forward. There's some from 2k3 I hate as well. Same goes for the 80's toon, next mutation and the comics.
The point is not everything is bad sure it's shocking that the show isn't the way it was. But allot of people felt that way if I remember correctly when 2k3 started as well.
We were all happy that it was close to Mirage but think about all those poor 80's toon fans who where dissed because they wish it at least involved the characters related.
Don't get me wrong guys I like 2k3 allot in fact more so than any other tmnt incarnation.
But to over and over week after week month after year go on and on about a show you hate without doing anything about it just seems fruitless.

Oh boo-hoo, cry me a ****ing river. Your'e a true crusader you know that.

Look, if a show is bad, it's bad, I'm not afraid to say it. It's not just the fact that it's different from the 2K3 show, I wouldn't have a problem with that if they handled it well. It's a bad show regardless of it being TMNT or not.

Look, what can I do? I ca't get it cancelled, even if I had the power to, I wouldn't because....well I probably would. But I know people like it, thats fine(kinda), but I'm not going to hold back because of it. I don't spend every waking moment of my life attacking the show and it's fans. I've said I don't like it, that's my opinon. If you've got a problem with that, then feel free to take it up with me.

[odupianist]

Wow, it's almost like these two have nothing else to do but wait at the computer to bitch at each other. You can both site there and say how mature or immature you're being, but responding to the other is just fuelling it. You both sound like a bunch of whiny bitches. Quit arguing over a silly TV show. Good, bad, who gives a ****. Go outside and get a life and not spend in on the computer arguing about a kids show. Seriously, how old are you two lol

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Wow, it's almost like these two have nothing else to do but wait at the computer to bitch at each other. You can both site there and say how mature or immature you're being, but responding to the other is just fuelling it. You both sound like a bunch of whiny bitches. Quit arguing over a silly TV show. Good, bad, who gives a ****. Go outside and get a life and not spend in on the computer arguing about a kids show. Seriously, how old are you two lol

Hi, I'm sorry, was anyone talking to you directly?

I thought not. So shut up.

[VaughnMichael]

Yes it is, in fact, in some aspects it's worse(at least NM kept them in the present)
Wow that's shocking no seriously that's just shocking lol.
So let me get this straight them being int he future is bad on TV but good in the comics?
Yeah you do know both ideas where Peter Lairds the one you defend all the time. So maybe you should write him that nice letter and speaking up for once to someone who's actually doing something wrong.
But of course I mean you can call him Putrescent if it helps you any. ;)
Dude, I hate the show because IT'S A BAD SHOW! If it was a good show, I wouldn't have a problem. But everything about sucks.
Why are you getting all blown out of shape man I didn't say you couldn't think that but I was trying to show you that the reasons you gave where foolish and I'm sure you could come up with much better ones to dislike the show? I mean hell I like most of it and I could come up with a better list as to why people should hate it. I understand man you and the show I get the point. I really don't want to argue with you but you need to see where I'm coming from because I see where you are. But I believe even more so now you're being ignorant to allot of facts that lay in front of you.
Oh I get it, because I don't like what FF did, my opinion sucks.
That's not saying at all so please don't speak for me. What I'm saying is And I wasn't even talking about you please read. I said People. No, I was making a joke man stop being so serious.
I'm ignorrant because I want there to be another renisance era of animation? Get real. If you want to talk about FF fine, I wont get involved, because I hate to show. And what am I supposed to do, write to PL and tell him to have FF pulled, yeah, like that will help. I'm not going to tell the man how to run his franchise. I'd ratehr just continue to not watch the show and let the people who like this crap, watch it.
Renaissance Era of animation? Do you really think that's going to happen in the era of a quick change for a quick buck. I hardly think so.
I Do I want to talk about TMNT in general be it good or bad but you don't need to rip it apart you could calmly list what you dislike. That was my point this entire time.
You could write to Peter sure I'm sure he's the only person who would listen in fact I don't believe it would be pointless at all. I wouldn't say have it pulled tell him what you dislike about the show frankly I think if enough people wrote in it would change things. The world doesn't change by people sitting around doing nothing.
It changes by action being taken be those actions good or bad.
Hey what You choose to do is fine by me but I'd rather see you be constructive with your time and at least let Mr. Laird know you dislike it. As well as anyone else. Because he could show the powers that be what people dislike about it.
Dude, I know what made the TMNT popular, but let ME repeat myself by saying it also made them laughing stocks. That's why they're never taken seriously like other comic book heroes, the old series severley limited the range of the franchise. It can be more than just a kid franchise, the problem is that network execs don't see it that way.
Well, I don't really see anyone trying to hard to not make them laughing stocks Peter has the power and if he wanted to do this beyond Money the guys would and would have been more than this. I'm not disagreeing with you I'm agreeing.
Trust me, the whole cast is bad, but Cody and Serling are the worst.
Well, we will just have to disagree on that one I like Serling quite a bit and he's made me laugh more than any tmnt character in the history of the show. Simply because of his hate for FF Mike. Who I think is the most annoying character out of any tmnt worlf flat out.
The animation AND art style is bad. The stiff designs and sluggish movements and lip syncing aren't winning this show any awards.
Did they win any when we thought the animation was good?
That's why I wish they would stop with the TV shows and just focus on making the comics good. Like you said, studios will always try to turn them "kid friendly", thats why the comics never get any respect. People associate the Turtles with kiddie crap, and ignore the good storytelling and deep characters.
Man the TV show will never stop companies are way to money hungry to even think of that. The only way things will stop is if they pull the plug because of sales and we both know that's all they care about. Not us, not the kids, no one but money.
It's true The show and comics will never get any respect because they are kid friendly it's going to take allot to change this but I believe Peter has the power to do this. But he's yet to do so really.
I don't know what the problem is I'd think he could see how bad we all want a more mature tmnt.
Once Again, I DO NOT MAKE IT MY ****ING LIFE'S MISSION TO RAG ON FF! I wouldn't be upset that it was different, if they did it good. Which they didn't.
I didn't say just you are ragging on the show. It was a statement showing my frustraint of coming here every day seeing a new thread ragging on it. Ok.
I'm sick of you! Why don't you coninue to keep your mouth shut, it's the only time when you don't sound like a retard.
Then you know what even after my talking to you like a person and you still putting me down.
Seriously do us both a favor and block me.
I don't keep my mouth shut because I have allot to offer people and have helped out allot of member of this board over the years. And I'm sure many could vouch for that.
I may sound like a retard but at least I'm a retard who doesn't take things lying down and isn't afraid to tell Laird what he thinks either in the sake of making things change.
Oh boo-hoo, cry me a ****ing river. Your'e a true crusader you know that.
Ok will that be a small, Medium, Or Super size River?
And You know what I am and damn proud of it! :)
Look, if a show is bad, it's bad, I'm not afraid to say it. It's not just the fact that it's different from the 2K3 show, I wouldn't have a problem with that if they handled it well. It's a bad show regardless of it being TMNT or not.
Sure and I will say so as well doesn't mean my taste is bad in things I never once said your taste in shows was bad even if I don't like those shows you listed before.
Look, what can I do? I ca't get it cancelled, even if I had the power to, I wouldn't because....well I probably would. But I know people like it, thats fine(kinda), but I'm not going to hold back because of it. I don't spend every waking moment of my life attacking the show and it's fans. I've said I don't like it, that's my opinon. If you've got a problem with that, then feel free to take it up with me.
You can do allot more than you think. It honestly takes one person to do things some times. Don't believe me? try it out and see. Take the time to write to Laird. Hell I'll even help you to tell him how bad they've screwed up the show. How that for proof that I'm not just another FF lover. Or Blind turtle fan.
I don't have a problem with you not liking or liking other things better but your choice words could be a bit more civilized man.
Wow, it's almost like these two have nothing else to do but wait at the computer to bitch at each other. You can both site there and say how mature or immature you're being, but responding to the other is just fuelling it. You both sound like a bunch of whiny bitches. Quit arguing over a silly TV show. Good, bad, who gives a ****. Go outside and get a life and not spend in on the computer arguing about a kids show. Seriously, how old are you two lol
Actully I do I'm now late I have to go take care of my Grandfather who has had a stroke. So yeah I do have better things to be doing. :(
Oh and I'm not sure about him but I'm 27.
And I'm not arguing I'm just trying to get my point across. I don't really hate the guy even if he hates me.
Hi, I'm sorry, was anyone talking to you directly?
I thought not. So shut up.
Wow man chill out. He's right. We Both need to stop this it's pointless.:ohwell:

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

What good would writting him do? I'll tell you exactly what he's going to say

"I'm sorry you don't like Fast Foward. Unfortunatley there are no plans to go back to the way it was. If you don't like th eshow, please don't watch it".

That's it. I'd rather not waste his or my time writting to tell him stuff he's heard before only to get an answer we all know. It'd be easier if the show was universally disliked. If everyone hated the show, and rose up and said to 4Kids it sucked, then they would pull it. But there are some people who liek the show, and kids don't care care either way.

I'd rather just forget about FF altogether, read the comics, and wait for a time where there are people with brains running TV and movie studios.

[Jo Dawn]

Ok guys. Stop the fighting please and thank you.

[VaughnMichael]

Ok guys. Stop the fighting please and thank you.
We're not fighting we're having an intese discussion.:D :lol:

[Jo Dawn]

Wellll... lol. Try to calm down the um... profanity ridden name calling then? ;) :P

[VaughnMichael]

Wellll... lol. Try to calm down the um... profanity ridden name calling then? ;) :P
Done some posts back. I think he's done as well. But one never can be to sure with other people. *shifty eyes* http://www.rumandmonkey.com/discuss/images/smiles/icon_shifty_eyes.gif

[raphaelprime]

Putres...you were in Jay and Silent Bob? he did call you CK right? :lol: (trying to lighten the mood a bit, watch me now get shot lmao).


Michi, i realize ratings help them sale commercial spots and earn their money. And i know they'll never see a dime from downloads or youtube. While ratings may be good enough for advertisers and all, its still not a good way to find out how many people are watching your program.

[X]

Wow...

-X-

[Bry]

Michi, i realize ratings help them sale commercial spots and earn their money. And i know they'll never see a dime from downloads or youtube. While ratings may be good enough for advertisers and all, its still not a good way to find out how many people are watching your program.
True, but if those people aren't watching the actual broadcasts then it doesn't have any financial impact. The selling of commercial spots depends on ratings - the higher they are, the more they can charge, and the longer the show can survive. The show may be more popular than the ratings show, but it's the same as someone downloading a movie instead of seeing it in the theatre - it takes away from the potential earnings of the show and hinders its chances of staying on the air.

I do agree that the Nielsen system has some serious flaws (I'm assuming that's what 4Kids measures ratings by) and doesn't necessarily draw an accurate picture of how many people are watching. But the unfortunate fact is that's what we're stuck with for the time being...

[GK Punk]

Michi, i realize ratings help them sale commercial spots and earn their money. And i know they'll never see a dime from downloads or youtube. While ratings may be good enough for advertisers and all, its still not a good way to find out how many people are watching your program.

yeah i feel like i am talking in circles, because i don't think i've managed to express what i was trying to convey. I guess I was basically trying to say it doesn't matter how popular the show is, as long as it's not bringing the money back in, it's considered a commercial failure.

**** it, my hand is injured and im trying to do this with the one good hand and its not going well :lol: i just don't want you to think im trying to argue with you first and foremost I was just trying to say basically what i said in the above paragraph. just dont think im getting it out in the right words...

[raphaelprime]

**** it, my hand is injured and im trying to do this with the one good hand and its not going well :lol:

sorry, didnt mean for you to type so much you injured your hand :lol: (please sense sarcasm lol)

And i know what you are both saying, its me who hasnt been able to get it clear enough, it takes me a few tries before i start to make sense, in some way i am a dumba--, and i make fun of myself for it too lol, but anyway, the point i was trying to make is that a more accurate way to determine ratings would be through downloads, youtube views, and dvd sales(mostly dvd sales), and im meaning, in earning the highest rating possible, for example, while i watch Heroes at 10, my aunt in Baltimore(where they send ratings and i dont) could be watching 24, so 24 is getting an extra in the ratings while Heroes isnt getting mine.

And i know of at least 2 others in my city(both friends) who would watch TMNT on saturday mornings(IF we had it) but even if we did, they wouldn't be getting ratings from us, and they wouldn't know they have at the least 3 extra viewers that their ratings aren't showing(even if 3 people doesnt make that much of a difference)

Im hoping im making at least a bit more sense now :) .

[Head Spinnin' Bebop]

I think ratings only matter for those who have a Nielsen cable box and are a part of it. I dunno how it all works, stupid to me. But I watched the first episode of Fast Forward and that was my last. I'm not gonna force myself to atch that, even more so after watching the lose season. FF is all meaningless to me, its like something else.

Same goes for the newer Batman animated series. As much as I love bats, this thing is awful, to me like a mockery of Batman that took everything I loved about it away. Only thing with that, is I dunno how that show is still on and so many other Batfans warmed up to it. Couldn't stand it. My weekend cartoon watching has been over for a while, its all tv on dvd now for me.

[Unicron the Agitator]

Not to get off topic, but I hated "The Batman" at first as well, but the series improved so much over the years, and has learned to borrow from its predisessor. There was an episode this season that drew heavily from Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" that could sit alongside nearly any episode of the Bruce Timm series. If "The Batman" can finally get it right there's a chance FF can as well.

[ZariusTwo]

Same goes for the newer Batman animated series. As much as I love bats, this thing is awful, to me like a mockery of Batman that took everything I loved about it away.

You're in the minority these days, The Batman is FAR from an insult and has went from an infant commercial-driven show to a series worthy of the name "Batman".

A lot of disgruntled Bat-fans are still living in the past and are just taking shots in the dark bashing The Batman these days, they don't bother watching an episode of the recent seasons, and just assume people like all of the series' efforts, when that's far from the truth. Seasons one and three are abysmal and everything you say about 'em, but seasons two and four are the best

I'd say The Batman has had better seasons than Batman Beyond actually. People make it sound like it was this untouchable masterpeice when the reality is that they blew it after the first season and lowered the tone to make it family freindly, the result? It only lasted on the air for two more seasons because the audience saw right through the toning down and walked away. It's a miracle episodes like "The Call" and " "Out of the Past" were made and aired when by that point Kids WB wanted more "Unmasked" and "Ace In The Hole" calibure storylines.

[Spitfire]

Batman Beyond indeed did get a major tone down. But the second season didn't take as big of a hit as the 3rd. The 2nd season still had some dark episodes, the darkest in fact, and it being 26 episodes had they cut out the lame ones you would still have a decently long season with some good dark episodes.

I don't watch The Batman because I don't watch TV. I saw part of an episode on Youtube and it had Killer Croc in it with this horrible voice. But I didn't care. I didn't need to jump to it anyways. I was happy with what we got for Batman already.

And nothing could be worse then some of those Gotham Knights episodes. God that show was bad.

[Head Spinnin' Bebop]

I've only seen a bit of Batman Beyond, while its good and I enjoy it for the most part, I'm not really a fan because I'm pretty much strictly a traditionalist with the Bruce Wayne Batman.

The new Batman series, I just hate the designs of characters and it just doesn't match to my view of them. To me its like a dark version of Batman kids or something. I can't get into it. Similar with Batman Begins. I know many loved it, I thought it was in itself a very good movie, but for me it didn't represent what I like about Batman perosnally and his universe. The look of Gotham too was like a plain city, didn't have that touch to it. I felt like I was watching people dress up pretending to be these people as opposed to them actually bringing the characters to life. And then that Batmobile. Plus I couldn't stand Katie Holmes lol. I am looking forward to the next though, which I wasn't with the first.

Guess I'm more traditional. Thats me. I love BTAS and its movies, Gotham Knights (even though some new deigns like Catwoman weren't to me exact liking and turned me off) the Burton movies, the 60's series and the old animated series. Comics, while I've read a couple and read up on some online, I've never been one to read many as its just too much to keep up with across the board, especially when I'm a big fig collector. I prefer watching it to reading it. I probably would have liked the new series if the designs were different. Ah well. I'm not complaining with all the great stuff we were given prior, I‘m happy with that. Don't watch much TV anymore, stick to all old stuff with tv shows on dvd.

[Poweranimals]

So do they ever intended to air the lost season then?

[ToTheNines]

Mirage did, but 4kids didn't.

[Poweranimals]

Mirage? Never heard of it. What channel is that?

[ToTheNines]

Dude, Mirage is the company that created and makes Ninja Turtles.

[VaughnMichael]

Dude, Mirage is the company that created and makes Ninja Turtles.
ahahahahahahahah that always makes me laugh:lol:

[TheAnimatedSeries]

But there are some people who liek the show, and kids don't care care either way.

Kids arent just small size retards. If I was a kid and I didnt like >> I would stop watching it, the same way I stopped watching Exo-Sqaud when they lightend its tone, didnt watch the Goliath Chronicles and stopped watching the 80's show when I realized they didnt fight anymore.

They can put any crap on TV and some kid is going to watch it, but its not like every kid will watch any cartoon just cause its on. Even as a kid I bet you refused to watch Bucky O'Hare because it sucked.

As a grown ass man, I only thought the 2k3 show was pretty good, not the Batman: TAS/Gargoyles/Mighty Max most people make it out to be, so >> doesnt offend me that much since I didnt watch regularly anyway. The 2k3 show was out for four seasons though, so theres not much to complain about there; most cartoons only last about that long anyway.

[Ecto Jedi]

Mirage? Never heard of it. What channel is that?

Hehe, you will soon learn, young grasshopper. :lol:

[bullet]

Kids arent just small size retards.

just wanted to point out that made me laugh like hell.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Kids arent just small size retards.

Wait, there not? :o

[ToTheNines]

As a grown ass man, I only thought the 2k3 show was pretty good, not the Batman: TAS/Gargoyles/Mighty Max most people make it out to be, so >> doesnt offend me that much since I didnt watch regularly anyway. The 2k3 show was out for four seasons though, so theres not much to complain about there; most cartoons only last about that long anyway.

Dude TMNT 2k3 is so much better than Mighty Max and Gargoyles. As for Timm's Batman, it may be better but I certainly enjoy TMNT more.

[X]

I'm not going to lie, but the person above who said 2k3 was good but not in the sense of other violent cartoons has a point.

I've lately been rewatching the 2k3 episodes, and I'm finding it to be just as cheesy as FF episodes. What I do appreciate in the 2k3 episodes though, is episodes where the Turtles would do various things without each other.

I was watching Touch and Go and what I thought was excellent about the episode wasn't the fact that there was fighting, or it was dark, or Mikeys lines fall flat as usual (most comedy in the new series period falls flat, except for a few things,) it was Raph stumbling on the old lady, and helping and talking with her. It was Raph sitting down and having a conversation in the episode with the lady as the episode plays on. Little things like that is pretty neat. I would like to see more scenarios like that in FF, and back in the 2k3 episodes if they make more after they get home.

So comparing FF with 2k3, it has the same cheese when it comes to comedy, fighting isn't done in what seems like a higher FPS like some episodes of 2k3, and the art style isn't the same, other then that, everything remains the same IMO.

-X-

[The Shelf]

Even as a kid I bet you refused to watch Bucky O'Hare because it sucked.

Dude! Whachoo talkin' 'bout?! Bucky O'Hare rocked! He was a green friggin' rabbit!

Oh, and I find it hilarious that you put Mighty Max in the same tier as 2k3, Batman, and Gargoyles. It was a great cartoon, I agree, but not that great. Personally, I would also put the 90's Spider-man and Beast Wars in the list too, and probably a few others, but I can't think of them right now.

[TheAnimatedSeries]

Dude! Whachoo talkin' 'bout?! Bucky O'Hare rocked! He was a green friggin' rabbit!

Oh, and I find it hilarious that you put Mighty Max in the same tier as 2k3, Batman, and Gargoyles. It was a great cartoon, I agree, but not that great. Personally, I would also put the 90's Spider-man and Beast Wars in the list too, and probably a few others, but I can't think of them right now.

Then not Bucky O'Hare, how about the New Adventures of He-Man? Or Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm. I think I watched the first episode and then every time it came on after that I would mute it and sit down indian style with my back to the tv, in some kind of protest.

I think it could be debated whether Mighty Max deserves the credit of being one of the 90's greats, but that argument isnt for this forum, so I'll just leave with the famous quote you know I'm going to use...

Spike: If you kill me, you'll be no better than me!
Norman: I can live with that. *drops him*

It also starred Rob Paulsen and taught children geography facts, so consider that.

[ToTheNines]

Dude! Whachoo talkin' 'bout?! Bucky O'Hare rocked! He was a green friggin' rabbit!

Oh, and I find it hilarious that you put Mighty Max in the same tier as 2k3, Batman, and Gargoyles. It was a great cartoon, I agree, but not that great. Personally, I would also put the 90's Spider-man and Beast Wars in the list too, and probably a few others, but I can't think of them right now.

Spider-man was not a great cartoon, it was good. If they had not taken the violence level to an unspeakable low, it would have been great.

But Beast Wars was so damn good. That show was like cocaine, if I didn't watch that show before I went to school... I don't even wanna think about it.

[ZariusTwo]

Beast Machines was what happened when the writers take a sniff of cocaine sadly.:lol:


Dude TMNT 2k3 is so much better than Mighty Max and Gargoyles.

Nope. Gargoyles walks all over this series. Max is in a different ball game, but comes close.

Then not Bucky O'Hare, how about the New Adventures of He-Man? Or Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm. I think I watched the first episode and then every time it came on after that I would mute it and sit down indian style with my back to the tv, in some kind of protest.

...What is WITH the hatred for the New Adventures of He-Man? The show was awesome, and right up there with the 2003 TMNT series. Better animation, solid characters, good continuity, Skeletor actually won more times than he did in the original, it was a worthy continuation of the original mythology

[The Shelf]

...What is WITH the hatred for the New Adventures of He-Man?

The problem is that I never liked the old adventures of He-Man, but I think I'm in the minority with that statement. :lol:

By the way, I was just kidding with the Bucky O'Hare thing. Oh, and I agree that Mighty Max was awesome. I've just never heard it compared with those other cartoons before. It's been so long that I actually can't picture any Mighty Max or Bucky O'Hare scenes to compare them with my favorite cartoons.

And yeah, Spider-man probably doesn't really compare with those others that were listed, but Spider-man was always my favorite Marvel superhero, so nyeh.

I remember another great cartoon that deserves to be on the list: Reboot! Man, that show rocked. Oddly enough, it's one of the few things that got me interested in computer science. The 80's and 90's had all the best cartoons. :( Except 2k3. :)

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Dude I LOVED Reboot! It really was an awesome show. :nod:

[TheAnimatedSeries]

...What is WITH the hatred for the New Adventures of He-Man? The show was awesome, and right up there with the 2003 TMNT series. Better animation, solid characters, good continuity, Skeletor actually won more times than he did in the original, it was a worthy continuation of the original mythology

They were probably good adventures, but I only watched a handful of episodes when it came out so I dont have strong feeling for it. I was trying to think of shows that are universally disliked but my mind mostly only allows me to think of things that are awesome.

I guess a better comparison to FF would be Spiderman Unlimited, although FF is not as bad.

[ZariusTwo]

I guess a better comparison to FF would be Spiderman Unlimited, although FF is not as bad.

That's closer, both shows don't make a lick of sense or contribute to the overall mythology in a positive way

The problem is that I never liked the old adventures of He-Man, but I think I'm in the minority with that statement. :lol:

It's alright dude, I don't personally have affection for the 2002 series, only the first season was any good, before CN, Mattel, and the crappy Snake Men arc killed it dead. The comic based on that series was awesome though

[VaughnMichael]

I'm not going to lie, but the person above who said 2k3 was good but not in the sense of other violent cartoons has a point.

I've lately been rewatching the 2k3 episodes, and I'm finding it to be just as cheesy as FF episodes. What I do appreciate in the 2k3 episodes though, is episodes where the Turtles would do various things without each other.

I was watching Touch and Go and what I thought was excellent about the episode wasn't the fact that there was fighting, or it was dark, or Mikeys lines fall flat as usual (most comedy in the new series period falls flat, except for a few things,) it was Raph stumbling on the old lady, and helping and talking with her. It was Raph sitting down and having a conversation in the episode with the lady as the episode plays on. Little things like that is pretty neat. I would like to see more scenarios like that in FF, and back in the 2k3 episodes if they make more after they get home.

So comparing FF with 2k3, it has the same cheese when it comes to comedy, fighting isn't done in what seems like a higher FPS like some episodes of 2k3, and the art style isn't the same, other then that, everything remains the same IMO.

-X-
Yeah It's the same thing as I said at some point in this massive thread that I'll take good diolog and writting any day over blood and guts for just the sake of being shocking.
It's the only reason I was buying Mirage Vol. 4 because the only think I liked about it was Lairds storys.