Anatomy of Mutant Turtles

[teletran]

I was thinking of putting together an anatomical workup of the turtles based on their appearance and abilities as well as the anatomy of real turtles.
I searched the web to find out if anyone had done anything similar and found this:
http://tmnt.besshudson.com/anatomy.html
Which is helpful but has several aspects that I would have done differently.
If you have any comments or suggestions for this project please let me know. I will update soon.

[teletran]

As far as I can tell the easiest way to determine the inner structure of the turtles is to start with an ordinary turtle and extrapolate how it'd structure must be changed to match the outer appetence of the TMNT. Actually the easiest way would probably be just to make it up as I go along but I'll hold that option in reserve for now.

The turtles would probably have mutated from a variety readily available to the New York pet trade in the late 60's early 70's (derived from their ages in the first issue of the comic). The turtles seem to be based on generic turtles which according to my research don't really exist as almost all species seem to have some gimmick or other which makes them instantly recognisable. This being said the box turtle is almost generic as its 'gimmick' is the ability completely enclose itself in its shell, which is subtle and would be completely useless once the mutation set in. official sources however have suggested the 'Red-eared Slider' which I had initially rejected because it has coloured stripes on it's body but that doesn't really matter because the differences for the most part are only skin deep.

An important question to ask is, was the mutagen changing them into something or away from something? Which is to say was it unlocking the hidden potentials in their turtle bodies or was it introducing human elements into there DNA? They are after all anthropomorphic turtles when all is said and done. The trouble with this question is that we don't have enough evidence to make a determination one way or the other as to my knowledge all subjects dosed with the mutagen (the turtles, splinter and leatherhead, let me know if you can think of any others.) were vertebrates within the same size range and with the same basic body plan.

[Buslady]

I was thinking of putting together an anatomical workup of the turtles based on their appearance and abilities as well as the anatomy of real turtles.
I searched the web to find out if anyone had done anything similar and found this:
http://tmnt.besshudson.com/anatomy.html
Which is helpful but has several aspects that I would have done differently.
If you have any comments or suggestions for this project please let me know. I will update soon.


This was a project that myself and Bess worked on. I am a turtle breeder as well as a fan, with her incredible knowledge of anatomy and her art we did this. :D She went for the ribbed version where I like the version with the ribs fused to the inside of the shell and bridge. We had fun with it. :D

What things you would have done differently?

My thoughts on what the green goo had in it was a dose of human blueprints suspended in a preserving goo. Once the turtles were exposed, their skin absorbed it. The goo enabled the DNA to penetrate their own and reprogram their bodies as they grew, then finally maybe completing their form by say, oh 5 years old, then they continued growing into what they are now.
Officially they ARE Red Ear Sliders, Trachemys Scripta Elegans, probably from Chinatown, and were most likely bred and hatched in the south where they are easily kept and bred by the thousands. Maybe they were born at Abbots Turtle Farm!
Why no species identifying markings? Well, mutation removed the camoflage needed for survival in the wild. Their skin remains green. RES (short for red ear slider) skin is green but usually very dark, and as RES age they lose their pigment appearing nearly all black. I ignore that for creative license. There's a few things you just hafta overlook on purpose. ^.^

[Spacefille]

I am a turtle breeder as well as a fan,

Dude, that's gotta suck for you. I spent two hours one night trying to figure out what species of turtles they were and discovered that they don't look anything LIKE turtles at all. Including a finger count that is completely different than human or turtle. Their markings are off and turtles are rarely even green! Now I just look at them and shake my head, but you being around turtles all the time? You've got to completely suspend disbelief I imagine.

My theory on the mutation was much like yours, except I thought that maybe the residue human DNA was on them from the pet store handlers. Either way the only way the mutegen thing could make sense is if they're really half human/half turtle. With odd digit counts. O_o; As for the skin color... uh, maybe the human DNA was from a light skinned person and it balanced out? I don't know, it's an idea. ^^


Hey if they're half human they can probably interbreed with humans, right? :D

[Buslady]

Dude, that's gotta suck for you. I spent two hours one night trying to figure out what species of turtles they were and discovered that they don't look anything LIKE turtles at all. Including a finger count that is completely different than human or turtle. Their markings are off and turtles are rarely even green! Now I just look at them and shake my head, but you being around turtles all the time? You've got to completely suspend disbelief I imagine.

My theory on the mutation was much like yours, except I thought that maybe the residue human DNA was on them from the pet store handlers. Either way the only way the mutegen thing could make sense is if they're really half human/half turtle. With odd digit counts. O_o; As for the skin color... uh, maybe the human DNA was from a light skinned person and it balanced out? I don't know, it's an idea. ^^


Hey if they're half human they can probably interbreed with humans, right? :D

I don't know why it would suck for me, I'm a hobby breeder not a huge scale breeder like Abbot's Turtle Farm. I've got 4 baby wood turtles right now and 2 on the way. Woo!
Actually red ear sliders do have green skin. My Ornate Woods have green skin too, more olive green. Green is often like the base color for many species. My woods, you got olive green background with red stripes lined with black. Red ears are green skinned with yellow stripes and a pair of big rad patches on each side of the head. Diamondback terrapins have bright light grey almost white skin with spots. Snapper's skin's green. Tortoises are most often brown though.

Well, as for interbreeding, they can in my fics. I like the odd idea of Raph being a father figure, I dunno, I get a kick out of it. It's something you will really never ever see in the mainstream. If they could their babies would probably look quite like them.

this is one of my hatchlings a couple months ago, brand new:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/100_1836.jpg

aint 'e cuuuuuuttteee? :D

[Daunt]

Off topic post to squee at the turtle picture. X) It's so cute!

[Spacefille]

That IS adorable Buslady. I want to hold it! :D

With the interbreeding, yeah I wrote fics back in High School where they could as well. XD Raph had a spunky daughter that looked like a ninja turtle with flaming red hair. Ahhh, the memories.

Still the only way that is possible is if they have compatable DNA, and the only way THAT is possible is if they have a bit more human DNA in them than your everyday turtle. ^^ But yes...

[Buslady]

That IS adorable Buslady. I want to hold it! :D

With the interbreeding, yeah I wrote fics back in High School where they could as well. XD Raph had a spunky daughter that looked like a ninja turtle with flaming red hair. Ahhh, the memories.

Still the only way that is possible is if they have compatable DNA, and the only way THAT is possible is if they have a bit more human DNA in them than your everyday turtle. ^^ But yes...

And more often than not, I like to think nature always has a way. Mutation occurs naturally already, why not allow the guys to be able to produce a family with a human mate?

[Cascadia]

mutations can occur when your DNA copies itself. There are several types of mutations that can occur.

1) Environmental agents (mutagens)--UV, radiation and other chemicals
2) point mutations--A point mutation is a simple change in one base of the gene sequence.
3) frame-shift mutations--n a frame shift mutation, one or more bases are inserted or deleted, the equivalent of adding or removing letters in a sentence. But because our cells read DNA in three letter "words", adding or removing one letter changes each subsequent word. This type of mutation can make the DNA meaningless and often results in a shortened protein.
4) Deletion--Mutations that result in missing DNA are called deletions. These can be small, such as the removal of just one "word," or longer deletions that affect a large number of genes on the chromosome. Deletions can also cause frameshift mutations.
5) Insertion--Mutations that result in the addition of extra DNA are called insertions. Insertions can also cause frameshift mutations, and general result in a nonfunctional protein.
6) Inversion--n an inversion mutation, an entire section of DNA is reversed. A small inversion may involve only a few bases within a gene, while longer inversions involve large regions of a chromosome containing several genes.

[Jo Dawn]

Hey if they're half human they can probably interbreed with humans, right? :D

*Looks at her Vicissitude fic; Grins evilly. Runs away*

[Buslady]

*Looks at her Vicissitude fic; Grins evilly. Runs away*

Uh oh heheheheeeee......


I love that fic...freaking crazy....

[Jo Dawn]

Are you calling me crazy? Hahah. ;)

That's ok... You may be calling me something else by the end of the fic (Yes, I'm still writing)... But, uh... Maybe not. I can say no more. (Though I do thank you for reading, Buslady, really... Highly appreciate it and all that.)

[Lord Nightwalker]

Man, I love this thread. I too have done sketches of what I thought their anatomy was like, Even going so far as to do sets with a more realistic look as well as their classic look. My little sister is a Herpatologist,(I think I had some influence on that line of work. lol.) So she has shared some of her research with me on occassion. also, I have pet turtles, Box and semi aquatics, and several books on them. I love this sort of speculative stuff. It verges on a cryptozoologic melting pot at times, But it's very interesting. I have had pretty much the same thoughts as most of you, But I have had a few curiosities of my own. Like, what if the mutation read into the history of the turles DNA, Pulling out their strenghts of the species. The best of the Aquatics, and land turtles, drawing on their common ancestry and evolving them as the underwent their genetic change..Farfetched, I know, But the thought of it was inticing. Something in the effect of them resulting in a reptillian hominid species...Not just a merging of cold blooded and warm blooded genetic make ups, But the creation of something new. Ekk! Sorry, I didn't mean to get carried away gang. Again, thanks for this awesome topic.

[Cascadia]

I have a book on Science & popular culture. It goes into information about mutations, in which it discusses alittle bit about TMNT. I will type information that the book provides if you want me to.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

I have a book on Science & popular culture. It goes into information about mutations, in which it discusses alittle bit about TMNT. I will type information that the book provides if you want me to.

Please do. :D This topic is very interesting.

Oh and of all the mutations you mentioned in your earlier post, which would you say are probably the primary reason for the Turtles physiological structure?

(I imagine insertion might have something to do with it, but you mentioned nonfunctional protein, so perhaps not. :ohwell: )

Anyway, please elaborate further, if you don't mind, Donny-- I mean, Scientific freak. :D

[Cascadia]

:lol: Me, Donny? ...:sweatdro:

Genetic mutations can produce new alleles of the gene that produce new traits in an organism--human traits. The mutation rate is typically slow unless the organism is exposed to mutagens--the ooze or anything that you would like to call it. Mutations can either handicap or benefit the organism's survival. Favorable mutations, which are rare in nature, are preserved whereas, unfavorable ones tend to fade away. However, our DNA usually repairs itself, which is why permanent mutations are rare but do occur. For instance, E. coli, the mutation rate is somewhere between 1 x 10-6 and 1 x 10-7 mutations per gene per generation.

In terms of the ones that I mentioned, these are the ones that happen in nature. But in terms of the turtles, it would be that human DNA was either inserted into the turtle DNA from mutagen or the exposed to the chemicals changed the DNA. Usually the mutations occur in unfunctional portions of our DNA.

[teletran]

I’ve mainly been a proponent of the ‘ultimate evolution of the turtle form’ theory. However I like the idea that the turtles came into contact with human DNA first, and then the mutagen allowed it to enter their cells. The problem with this is that it leaves the door open to Splinter becoming some sort of weird three-way hybrid between rats turtles and humans. I can’t help thinking it would be easier to achieve the same ends without any DNA transplanting at all. DNA tells the body what to grow into, so with a few subtle rewrites you could increase the growth rate, lung capacity, muscle mass, intelligence, the sky’s the limit. Well almost, if the turtles were exposed to the mutagen as embryos then they could have developed into almost anything but because they were already fully formed their options are somewhat more limited. The chances of a six armed two headed turtle are rather slim, alien creatures bursting out of their chests are unlikely, spontaneously growing teeth is just about within the realms of possibility and as for a decreased number of fingers, well that’s easy.

Since I mentioned Splinter I should point out that I’ve always assumed that his exposure to the mutagen was more limited and thus his mutation less severe.

This was a project that myself and Bess worked on. I am a turtle breeder as well as a fan, with her incredible knowledge of anatomy and her art we did this. :D She went for the ribbed version where I like the version with the ribs fused to the inside of the shell and bridge. We had fun with it. :D

What things you would have done differently?

Well I’d have stuck with the three finger two toe version probably by fusing the bones of the alternate fingers, got rid of the redundant rib cage and just generally made it more turtley. Here’s a skull design I did yesterday but it was just for a bit of fun and I may not use it in my final project.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1511/skull02ra1.th.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skull02ra1.jpg)


By the way do you like my new avatar?

[Cascadia]

nice avatar. :) In terms of the notion about Splinter, I am not entirely sure if you look at the original cartoon origin. But the information that I provided can probably go along with the comics, 2k3 series, and the movies.

[Buslady]

Actually Teletran, they DO have a rib cage, it's simply fused to the inside of the carapace, you can see the spinal column and ribbing. So it's not redundant, it's there and has a purpose! :D
And yes, nice avatar. :D

[johnnyblaze]

thinking back didn't they use red eared sliders for the flash back scene in the first film? I also liked how in the flashback scene when they were starting to stand up that their eyes are still reptilian and not the human style eyes they have now

[teletran]

Actually I meant that the human style internal ribcage was redundant because of the turtle ribcage fused to the shell.

[Buslady]

Actually I meant that the human style internal ribcage was redundant because of the turtle ribcage fused to the shell.


ookeedoke...gotcha ^.^

[Revan]

Are the boys warm blooded? Mike says he is cold blooded in 2k3 but that seems unlikely the way they run and jump around all the time.

We just had a brutal winter here in South Dakota. I know the seasons are more mild on the coast, but how could a cold blooded species survive a New York winter in the sewer?

[Cascadia]

cold-blooded animals go into hibernation when it is cold and when it is too hot.

[Revan]

But do the guys hibernate? They must be warm blooded

[Cascadia]

either they are slightly warm-blooded or someone placed heaters in the lair.

[Masked Ninja]

I think they're warm-blooded - they'd have to be to be able to stay active for as long as they do, fighting and running around. Though I could see 'em being slightly more susceptible to cold than humans. Mikey's line in "Tales of Leo" was a throwaway turtle-related joke, in my opinion.

[bullet]

i've been wondering this for a long time, actually...how do they produce enough energy to do what they do if they're cold-blooded? so i concluded that they must be warm-blooded...and yet mike has said on several occasions that "it sucks to be cold-blooded." so...

this might sound really stupid, but realize that i'm no science major...ahha....but, do cold blooded animals bleed red? i always thought that was only a warm-blooded thing. our green dudes bleed red, so...

[Buslady]

these terms really are inaccurate anyways. There really are no cold-blooded animals. Ectothermal is more accurate IMO; relying on outside temps for internal body temps.

As for the guys, they have to have evolved more efficient hearts and become somewhat capable of generating their own body heat otherwise all that jumping around, impossible.
In a 3 chambered heart ther's just one wall that needed to be sealed to become a 4 chambered heart. No biggie, the mutation grew the wall and voila! endothermal turtles. wheee!
'course there's Leatherbacks who've evolved a system to keep their body temps in the 70s when diving deep; oil filled sleeves around their blood vessels is one thing they've developed. It's cool, they're like the closest thing to reptilian endotherm.

Yes ectothermal animals bleed red. I've seen turtle blood a few times. I actually did a ear lancing on Mikey and there was a little blood in that but mostly...ewww...infection.

[Cascadia]

nicely said, Buslady. Your posting took me back to my Animal physiology, a tough class.

[Masked Ninja]

these terms really are inaccurate anyways. There really are no cold-blooded animals. Ectothermal is more accurate IMO; relying on outside temps for internal body temps.Yup. :) Though I wonder if being out in wintry temperatures would be harder on the guys than for people. Especially since they apparently haven't developed any physiological way of keeping the heat in... unless they did get a more mammal-style layer of fat (which is possible, I s'pose)

Though even a human would complain about the cold if all he was wearing were a few belts and pads. :trazz:

[bullet]

in that green monster episode in 2k3 toons mike said that it sucked to be cold-blooded when they were heading up to casey's cabin...it was snowing outside so, yeah it apparently would be very harsh for them. although, later on they ventured out into the snow with nothing more than a belt on anyway and don't seem to feel a thing.

[Revan]

in that green monster episode in 2k3 toons mike said that it sucked to be cold-blooded when they were heading up to casey's cabin...it was snowing outside so, yeah it apparently would be very harsh for them. although, later on they ventured out into the snow with nothing more than a belt on anyway and don't seem to feel a thing.

it's actually tales of leo. Monster hunter is after exodus. but it is weird how sometimes they feel cold in a uhaul but outdoors they are fine.

[odupianist]

The cold metal bed in the uhaul that they were sitting in?

[Cascadia]

Monster hunter is actually after Tales of Leo and before the City at war episodes. Neutrino, you are thinking of Cousin Sid, which is after Exodus.

[bullet]

it's actually tales of leo. Monster hunter is after exodus. but it is weird how sometimes they feel cold in a uhaul but outdoors they are fine.

oops..you're right. i lumped the episodes together without much thought cuz they shared the same disc. :P

[Revan]

Monster hunter is actually after Tales of Leo and before the City at war episodes. Neutrino, you are thinking of Cousin Sid, which is after Exodus.

right. man I never realized how often they went to casey's

[Cascadia]

Between NYC and Casey's, they went twice from what I can recall.

[bullet]

wait so was i right? damn it i left my dvd cases at home :( oh well, my memory isn't known to be great.

BoT: we're doing an anatomical study of the turtles and trying to make it as realistic as possible...but in all honesty i think a lot of it isn't supposed to make sense. but always fun to think about it.

[Cascadia]

It is quite alright, bullet. We can get back to our nutty topic about mutant turtle anatomy.

[teletran]

It figures that we’d get onto this when I went on holidays. I haven’t posted on this topic for a while because I’ve been sick and also have just flown across the country but I have been continuing my research.

The two questions I’ve asked myself most about the turtles is are they really cold blooded? And to what extent are they aquatic?

Apparently when even a normal turtle reaches a certain size they become “almost warm blooded” because their surface area can maintain their body heat for longer, this is called Gigantothermy.

[Death's Head]

I take it they should have extended longevity?

[teletran]

I take it they should have extended longevity?

I wouldn't call it essential as most turtles have a lifespan comparable to or exceeding that of humans. This also makes the ageing process of the turtles hard to determine although if we look at how Splinter’s aging has been affected by his mutation we may be able to infer something about the turtles, assuming of corse that the mutagen affects different species more or less similarly. Generally rats only live for 4 years with the record being around 5 or 7 Splinter has been kicking around for well over 20 years and was at least middle aged before he was mutated. Splinters life has obviously been extended by his mutation however he is still aging at a rate considerably faster than a human and 15 years after his mutation he already considers himself old. He suffers from (I assume) fatigue, arthritis and heart problems. If the turtles follow this pattern I could conservatively estimate that they should be entering late middle age around their 200th birthday.

By the way it occurs to me that the term mutagen which I’ve been using is more associated with the purple goo from the old cartoon than the green ooze from all other versions of the story. I realise this can be confusing because the affects of the two are completely different.

[bullet]

isn't it true that technically turtles can live forever anyway? turtle's organs don't wear out with time after they reach maturity. i've read somewhere that devoid of any contamination, hunger, disease...etc...turtles will technically live forever, as old age will never be the cause of death.

[Cascadia]

hmmm.....in terms of lifespan, tortoises have a very long lifespan. (~150 years). In fact, one passed away a couple of months ago that was living in the mid-1800s. Her name was Harriet. She died of old-age.

In terms of turtles, they can live anywhere between 50 and 200 years depending on whether they are kept as pets or living in the wild. Also it depends on diseases and food supply.

Snapping Turtle 57
Red Eared Turtle 7
Painted Turtle 11
Galapagos Land Tortoise 193
American Box Turtle 123
Common & Ornate Box Turtles They can live up to 100 years with the right care and conditions, though most in captivity reach 30-40 years.

Red-eared Sliders (Trachemys scripta elegans)<---these are the guys according to Donnie. lifespan: Up to 20-40 years.

[jenna]

OK, I have a question...

In the novelisation of film 1 it describes Raphael's shell going soft when he is sick. Is this common in sick turtles? What causes it?

Also, with regards to mutated genes, you may already know that ginger haired and red haired people are technically mutants because the red / ginger gene is a mutation. As it's not an advantageous gene and very few ginger people will 'mate' with each other, we are going extinct. Thought this was cool as it means I have something in common with the turtles :D

[PipingPringle]

this... is.. so.. informative

[Cascadia]

OK, I have a question...

In the novelisation of film 1 it describes Raphael's shell going soft when he is sick. Is this common in sick turtles? What causes it?

Also, with regards to mutated genes, you may already know that ginger haired and red haired people are technically mutants because the red / ginger gene is a mutation. As it's not an advantageous gene and very few ginger people will 'mate' with each other, we are going extinct. Thought this was cool as it means I have something in common with the turtles :D

Ok...then I am a mutant. :lol: In terms of Raph's shell going soft when he is sick, I have a feeling that is a Buslady question. She would know.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Okay, so I found this little bit of info on www.redearslider.com :

Metabolic bone disease / Soft shell
Metabolic bone disease (MBD), also known as soft shell syndrome, should be of serious concern to new turtle keepers and for those with young RES. It is a serious but preventable disease brought on by deficiencies of calcium and vitamin D3. Early cases are treatable but advanced cases may be too difficult to overcome. It is possible that MDB may have incurred other diseases due to poor diet and conditions.

Calcium is needed throughout the body and in the bloodstream. It is responsible for the hardness and strength of the shell. A young RES grows at a fast rate and will require a good amount of calcium to compensate for this growth. A lack of calcium intake causes the body to take calcium from the bone structure, which greatly weakens it. Ideally, a RES will get calcium through a proper diet (for instance cuttlebone) and avoid such a painful disease. Vegetables that contain oxalic acid, like spinach, actually block the absorption of calcium and should never be fed to a RES. The absorption of calcium is dependent on vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 is usually obtained through metabolized UVB light but can also come from a supplement. Direct, unobstructed sunlight is the best source of UVB.

If the condition continues, the bones and shell would eventually soften. This critical situation may be revealed where the shell may be soft in certain areas or all around and may appear deformed. Areas of white discoloring may develop on the shell and shell rot may take hold. The RES may refuse to eat or appear weak and lethargic. Tremors and reflex problems can also be symptoms. The calcium in the diet must be quickly corrected and, if necessary, a vet can inject calcium into the turtle. Overall, calcium and vitamin D3 are easy and inexpensive to provide and there is no reason not to.

From what I gather, this would support the Turtles' need for pizza in the old toon series. Lots o' cheese= lots o' calcium. :D

At any rate, as Sci. Freak said, Buslady is pretty much the authority on all things Red Ear Slider (and Raph :P ), so she'd have more knowledge on the subject.

EDIT: I gotta say, the whole 'oxalic acid blocking calcium' thing was a surprise to me.

[Buslady]

It figures that we’d get onto this when I went on holidays. I haven’t posted on this topic for a while because I’ve been sick and also have just flown across the country but I have been continuing my research.

The two questions I’ve asked myself most about the turtles is are they really cold blooded? And to what extent are they aquatic?

Apparently when even a normal turtle reaches a certain size they become “almost warm blooded” because their surface area can maintain their body heat for longer, this is called Gigantothermy.


Gigantothermal turtles are just one, the Leatherback.

Turtles are either semi or fully aquatic. Like my woods in the wild, there is a dry season and a wet season. When it's wet and streams and ponds are full, they'll be in the water. Dry, on land.
Cold blooded, yes that are but the term is vague. THeir blood isn't COLD.
They rely on external sources to warm up. They have the ability to hold that heat in to function for awhile in the water too. They'll also float at the surface and bask.

[Buslady]

isn't it true that technically turtles can live forever anyway? turtle's organs don't wear out with time after they reach maturity. i've read somewhere that devoid of any contamination, hunger, disease...etc...turtles will technically live forever, as old age will never be the cause of death.

This is true, it is also a recent discovery. I love it.

If I kept the health of my turtles up, they'd outlive me!

Most often though, they do get some condition that does them in :(

turtles generally have shorter spans than tortoises though.

Soft shell conditions usually occur when the animal has no source of UVB radiation to process their nutrients properly. Not when they get slaughtered by the foot. Raph's shell should have been JUST FINE! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I thought that was corny.
the thing about oxalic acid, is true. you do not feed spinach, cabbages, broccoli, cauliflour, brussels, stuff like that.

lilfe span: there is a red ear out there who was bought by a little girl in the 20s....
it's a female turtle, still kickin at 80.

PIzza would kill a turtle. the calcuim's no good without the UVB...how the turtles survived being underground and eating crap is beyond me but WHO CARES!

[jenna]

Okay, so I found this little bit of info on www.redearslider.com :

Metabolic bone disease / Soft shell
Metabolic bone disease (MBD), also known as soft shell syndrome, should be of serious concern to new turtle keepers and for those with young RES. It is a serious but preventable disease brought on by deficiencies of calcium and vitamin D3. Early cases are treatable but advanced cases may be too difficult to overcome. It is possible that MDB may have incurred other diseases due to poor diet and conditions.

Calcium is needed throughout the body and in the bloodstream. It is responsible for the hardness and strength of the shell. A young RES grows at a fast rate and will require a good amount of calcium to compensate for this growth. A lack of calcium intake causes the body to take calcium from the bone structure, which greatly weakens it. Ideally, a RES will get calcium through a proper diet (for instance cuttlebone) and avoid such a painful disease. Vegetables that contain oxalic acid, like spinach, actually block the absorption of calcium and should never be fed to a RES. The absorption of calcium is dependent on vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 is usually obtained through metabolized UVB light but can also come from a supplement. Direct, unobstructed sunlight is the best source of UVB.

If the condition continues, the bones and shell would eventually soften. This critical situation may be revealed where the shell may be soft in certain areas or all around and may appear deformed. Areas of white discoloring may develop on the shell and shell rot may take hold. The RES may refuse to eat or appear weak and lethargic. Tremors and reflex problems can also be symptoms. The calcium in the diet must be quickly corrected and, if necessary, a vet can inject calcium into the turtle. Overall, calcium and vitamin D3 are easy and inexpensive to provide and there is no reason not to.

From what I gather, this would support the Turtles' need for pizza in the old toon series. Lots o' cheese= lots o' calcium. :D

At any rate, as Sci. Freak said, Buslady is pretty much the authority on all things Red Ear Slider (and Raph :P ), so she'd have more knowledge on the subject.

EDIT: I gotta say, the whole 'oxalic acid blocking calcium' thing was a surprise to me.

Ooh - very interesting thanks.

[iris]

isn't it true that technically turtles can live forever anyway? turtle's organs don't wear out with time after they reach maturity. i've read somewhere that devoid of any contamination, hunger, disease...etc...turtles will technically live forever, as old age will never be the cause of death.
What buslady said. (And oxalate, phytate, uronate, and fiber tend to lower calcium absorption in a lot of animal species, including us).

sdp posted a NYT article about that here (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=17680).

[teletran]

I can see Raph's shell going soft if he'd been unconscious and not eating but it would have to happen over the course of weeks or months not days.

[Buslady]

I can see Raph's shell going soft if he'd been unconscious and not eating but it would have to happen over the course of weeks or months not days.

more like many months. it would take alot for an adult turtle's shell to soften that much.

babies are susceptible cos they're growing.

[Fledermaus]

I've been looking into certain details as I prepare writing/drawing a TMNT fan comic. One of the things I found very interesting was how the Turtles are able to move with relative ease in out of the sewers via manhole covers. Read these fun facts:

Manhole covers must be a minimum of 22 in (56 cm) in diameter, but can be as much as 60 in (1.5 m) in diameter. The average cover weighs between 250 and 300 lb (113-136 kg). It is important for sewer manhole covers to be heavy as sewers can produce methane gas that could push lightweight covers out of the way, letting noxious gases up into the street.

In NYC:

Manhole cover costs vary by weight, and New York City's current specifications [2003] call for them to be 27 inches in diameter, the cover to weigh 195 pounds and the frame to weight 345 pounds.

Several things I concluded from this:

1) The turtle's shells, at their widest, really should not exceed two feet. This means the TMNT are probably pretty small, or at least unusually built. Fine with me, I actually prefer them not looking exactly like humans.

2) The turtles and old master splinter have got to be pretty damn strong to lift those covers. From what we've seen in several different incarnation, the turtles would go topside even as young children.:o So... I guess super-strength was part of the mutation.

These are just interesting things for careful TMNT artists to consider when designing the turtles, assuming they have little to no trouble getting in and out of the sewers.

[Buslady]

there are other ways to get out of the tunnels other than covers. open drains that dump out into the river for one...the storm drains i think dump right into it

[Fledermaus]

there are other ways to get out of the tunnels other than covers. open drains that dump out into the river for one...the storm drains i think dump right into it

I'm not saying this is the ONLY way in or out. Just that the turtles are most often shown exiting and entering the sewers through manhole covers.

Sorry for the double-post but I also gotta ask something kind of important -- well, to me anyways. My fan comic takes place during the heat of an NYC summer and the guys have to go topside.

How would the TMNT keep cool if they don't have sweat glands and can't spray themselves with cold water all the time or constantly hide in the shade? :-? Would they just keep their mouths WIIIIIIIIIDE open?

Turtle anatomy experts, please share your wisdom. The comic features Raph so... there is even more reason to help me speculate ;)

[bullet]

they're pretty small compared to your average guy. i think what, a little over 5 feet? so it would make sense that their shells wouldn't be more than 2 feet wide.

[Buslady]

Sorry for the double-post but I also gotta ask something kind of important -- well, to me anyways. My fan comic takes place during the heat of an NYC summer and the guys have to go topside.

How would the TMNT keep cool if they don't have sweat glands and can't spray themselves with cold water all the time or constantly hide in the shade? :-? Would they just keep their mouths WIIIIIIIIIDE open?

Turtle anatomy experts, please share your wisdom. The comic features Raph so... there is even more reason to help me speculate ;)

a turtle would eventually dehydrate and die; a tortoise is more built for hot weather.
BUT...we're talking mutation here. Maybe it gave them some form of internal temperature regulation and external cooling. heh...

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

That's what I always thought-- the mutation gave them the ability to sweat--just a little bit, at least. I mean, they seemed particularly...shiny (I think this is the word I want to use) during their rooftop battle against the Shredder in the 1st movie-- I figured that sheen was due to perspiring during the fight. *shrugs*

[Fledermaus]

a turtle would eventually dehydrate and die; a tortoise is more built for hot weather.
BUT...we're talking mutation here. Maybe it gave them some form of internal temperature regulation and external cooling. heh...

Temperature regulation is the main question though... I know that Jack Rabbits and African elephants can release some body heat because of their extremely large ears -- but that only works because of the large surface area to mass ratio of the ears.

The closest equivalent of that for the turtles might be their hands and feet. I notice that when turtles swim, the phalanges in their feet spread way the heck out. My version of the TMNT maintain this ability, so maybe if they spread open their hands and feet as though they were swimming, they may achieve a similar cooling effect. But such an activity might make it difficult if not impossible for them to move around, let alone fight. In order for this cooling effect to work, you have to stay in a shady spot.

Hmm... perhaps extremely hot weather could be the kryptonite for the TMNT.

To Kunoichi_Haruko -- there is not a single known chelonian in existence (now or in the past) that has/had sweat glands. The TMNT would no longer be reptiles at that point IMO if they started producing sweat. They may as well (were they females) start lactating.

Now for teeth... modern turtles don't have teeth, but some of their prehistoric ancestors did, so that's why the TMNT developing teeth is conceivable.

Yeah TMNT is technically impossible. I'm just trying to think of how they might get around certain issues, such as summer heat, since it's featured rather prominently in the story.

[bullet]

i could swear i actually saw them sweat in the 2k3 cartoons. probably more than once.

[Revan]

i could swear i actually saw them sweat in the 2k3 cartoons. probably more than once.

I know they did. Someone even made a sweating turtle gif that was up on the drome a while back.

[Fledermaus]

i could swear i actually saw them sweat in the 2k3 cartoons. probably more than once.

They sweat frequently in the comics and the toons.

They are no longer reptiles for that reason. Reptiles can be warm-blooded, they can even "cry", but they can't sweat. Turtles have underdeveloped tear ducts called lachrymal glands which could conceivably mutate into full-fledged crying machines. But sweat glands? I've looked but haven't found anything remotely related to mammalian sweat glands in reptiles. Its like sweat glands were a secondary part of evolution long after the reptile/mammal split, since not even all mammals have sufficient sweat glands.

I'm just thinking of possibilities for what the TMNT can and can't do. They're turtles, they're reptiles... lots of creative potential here. :D

[Cascadia]

You would have to remember that they have probably have human DNA. We have sweat glands all over our bodies to help us sweat. Their teeth look like human teeth. Eye color...I do not know of any turtles with blue or brown eyes. Also they have imposable thumbs...all of these characteristics might help explain that they probably have human DNA.

[bullet]

yeah i remember them sweating in the comics, too. along with that red blood thing (which i now know is normal for reptiles, thanks to this topic :D)...made me think that they were much closer to being human than turtles. they seem to be humans with the appearance of turtles, since they seem capable of doing anything we can do. sci freak, i don't think any turtles had blue eyes, except in the wierd new movie game. pretty sure they were brown-black or of similar variety. technically there aren't black eyes, even in humans...i thought. it's just really dark brown that appear black from a distance.

[Fledermaus]

Heheh... probably from all that human fecal residue in the sewers. :P

I understand that the mutation seems to have made the turtles more homosapien-like... It's just the heavy, ridiculous sweating that you see in Gatorade commercials that I think doesn't make sense of the turtles.

The difference between sweating and bone structure or tear ducts or even teeth is that there are known evolutionary links between the two. That's why things like feet hands teeth and tear ducts would function so well.

If the turtles have to have sweat glands to keep cool... they might only have underdeveloped sweat glands as some mammals have. dogs pant, pigs and hippopotomi roll in the mud or the stay in the water. But what could the turtles do?

Anyways, thanks for the speculative input you guys. It helps when others throw around ideas. :) I was just hoping that there might be some other natural (and practical) natural cooling mechanism besides sweating that someone might know of, but whatever.

[bullet]

chugging down a bottle of icy cold heineken...that's a pretty practical cooling mechanism :P yeah yeah i know alcohol actually warms you up blah blah.

[Cascadia]

. sci freak, i don't think any turtles had blue eyes, except in the wierd new movie game. pretty sure they were brown-black or of similar variety. technically there aren't black eyes, even in humans...i thought. it's just really dark brown that appear black from a distance.

Let's see my Western box turtle had red eyes
Red eared slider had yellow/greenish eyes
I had a red-headed slider and I do not remember her eye color
We had a rescued Alligator snapping turtle from the highway...light yellow eyes

[Fledermaus]

chugging down a bottle of icy cold heineken...that's a pretty practical cooling mechanism :P yeah yeah i know alcohol actually warms you up blah blah.

Funny... I was always warned to never drink alcohol and then go running around naked in the snow -- alcohol opens the pores and causes the body to lose heat.

So I heard. *shrug*

I think the obvious trend is to make the turtles humans in green suits with shells that aren't really attached to the body. But I find that horribly boring and even a little lazy. The fun trick is to see how reptilian/chelonian one can make the TMNT without stripping them of their practical human qualities such as intelligence and communication, physical mobility and "character relatability."

[Buslady]

You would have to remember that they have probably have human DNA. We have sweat glands all over our bodies to help us sweat. Their teeth look like human teeth. Eye color...I do not know of any turtles with blue or brown eyes. Also they have imposable thumbs...all of these characteristics might help explain that they probably have human DNA.


technically they should have 5 fingers & toes.

Eyes..oh boy..where the hec do I start...eye color is wide ranging from my Ornate wood turtles' silvery blue to a male boxie's red, dark brown of russian tortoises (most torts have browns)...

Mikey may be a different species in the 4th movie with his blues hahaah

There's one turtle who's got freaky eyes, if i can find the pic I'll show you guys. I seen one in person and they're REAL...totally freaky.

i just saw a gorgeous male albino red ear slider, you can see his eyes under his eye lids...he was snoozing. it was SO COOL. only $250! ouch

there isn't a red-headed slider, only red ears and others...must've been something else. i try to use taxonomy names cos common names are never accurate.

sounds like you have a male Western Boxie SCiFreak

Reptiles can not be warm blooded.

ooo cool i just noticed im a legendary member...wooo heheheheee

[Fledermaus]

Reptiles can not be warm blooded.

What about the leatherback sea turtle, which is warm-blooded? :D Dinosaurs, thought of by many scientists as the first descendents of reptiles, are also believed to have been mostly warm-blooded animals. Mutant turtles are descended from reptiles, and if they've started moving towards the homeostasis/mammal direction, warm-bloodedness might be one of the first qualities they adopt.

Yeah more fun speculation... :D

And congratulations on your legendary membership! :tparty:

[bullet]

Let's see my Western box turtle had red eyes
Red eared slider had yellow/greenish eyes
I had a red-headed slider and I do not remember her eye color
We had a rescued Alligator snapping turtle from the highway...light yellow eyes

sorry sci i meant turtles of the teenage mutant ninja persuasion...:tgrin:. i should have clarified. i'm sure there are more colors than brown in turtle eyes...as you've mentioned.

[Cascadia]

there isn't a red-headed slider, only red ears and others...must've been something else. i try to use taxonomy names cos common names are never accurate.

sounds like you have a male Western Boxie SCiFreak


Ok, Miss Turtle expert...the first turtle that I have had looked like a slider but had red spots on top of its head rather on its ears. It looked liked the darker one of the two.
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/images/sliders1.jpg

[Masked Ninja]

Ahh, getting back into the turtley TMNT stuff... I am eager to see this come to fruition, Fled.

In the meantime... hmm, sweating. Yeah, I'm sure that if the Turtles did that, it would be in ways that some other mammals do it. Like cats sweating from their pawpads and having to pant if that isn't enough.

And I do maintain that the Turtles, while their abode is frequently called the "sewer," they actually live in storm drains. The first issue of the comic mentions something about that. Now how that has to do with anything... eh, maybe storm drains are easier (and less toxic!) to get into anyways.

[bullet]

haha sci freak cute turtles. my sis has two of those :D

i used to have'm when i was younger, too. funny thing...this carwash place near my house has these turtles out in their artificial pond. whenever i go there for a carwash, i'd wait out by the bridge that arches over the pond and see them sunbathing on the rocks, with their heads lifted high.

[Buslady]

Ok, Miss Turtle expert...the first turtle that I have had looked like a slider but had red spots on top of its head rather on its ears. It looked liked the darker one of the two.
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/images/sliders1.jpg

That's a red ear cross, to me...looks like with maybe a yellow belly slider with that bold yellow stripe down her chin. Looking at pure YBS, I think she's a RES X YBS cross. She's cute!
I had a little girl who's patch was peachy colored, but she's a pure RES...her patch was just different.
Are those two gals yours? OR were?

[Cascadia]

No...they are not my babies. The turtle from my childhood looked like the dark one. She was placed in an aquarium for 3 years...my family moved to the country and we had a pond. We placed her in the pond. Sometimes she wandered towards the house. The snapping turtle and another very large turtle were rescued from the highway and placed in the pond. All 3 are still there.

[Revan]

That's what I always thought-- the mutation gave them the ability to sweat--just a little bit, at least

haha
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/ZakNeutrino/Leosweating.gif

[jenna]

:lol: The proof's in the pudding.

Yeah... reptiles may not sweat, but these ones do. And they can cry. And they have three fingers and two toes. And they have teeth. And can regulate their own body temp. And on occassion they seem to be able to carry stuff inside their shells :-?

Putting it all down to the properties of the mutagen - giving them humanoid characteristics.

Although, the body temperature is something I think is really cool - I like in 2k3 in when Mike says "It sucks being cold blooded" as it is a nice reminder that they are basically reptiles and have to adapt. It was sweet the way they were all wrapped up in blankets in Tales of Leo, and the three conscious turtles all looked kind of dozey because of the cold. Whilst I accept that they would have to be able to regulate their own body temps to be able to do all that ninjitsu, I like that they are cold blooded.

I love this thread - I think it's my favourite so far. I know nothing about turtles and find this really interesting. Please keep the facts coming....

[Buslady]

Here's something for fun. I took a group to the Living Desert Zoo, one of my favorite trips to do and their discovery room had this common snapper shell. I thought you guys might like to see how the spine & ribs are fused to the carapace. Pretty cool huh:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00318.jpg

[bullet]

looks like one giant mushroom. :D

[Andrew NDB]

The TMNT themselves were finally, and recently revealed to actually, definitively be -- when they were normal -- red-earred sliders, the most common turtle out there (which makes sense, since they were always supposed to be common petshop turtles).

[Revan]

The TMNT themselves were finally, and recently revealed to actually, definitively be -- when they were normal -- red-earred sliders, the most common turtle out there (which makes sense, since they were always supposed to be common petshop turtles).

yep

I had a slider. I got it for my b-day and kept him for a little under a year until I gave him away. He went to a loving owner, I'm just not a very good pet owner. :cry: sad but true.

[Cascadia]

Thank you, Buslady for showing us that picture. I miss my first slider, Spotty,....she was a goof-ball. She got rather big.

[Andrew NDB]

The two red-earred sliders I have are the most low-maintenance turtles I have, and I have 8 of different varieties. Buy a decent $30 filter, throw some reptomin in the tank once and again, add water once in a while, change water once every few weeks, you're set.

[Buslady]

there's a reason i never reccomend a turtle for a pet. Just don't get one. They cost so freaking much to care for it's insane. Housing at minimum for a red ear, one single male could run up $500 or more. big tank, stand, huge filter, heater, decor...then there's all the different food they need...pellets just don't cut it.

[Buslady]

The two red-earred sliders I have are the most low-maintenance turtles I have, and I have 8 of different varieties. Buy a decent $30 filter, throw some reptomin in the tank once and again, add water once in a while, change water once every few weeks, you're set.

No $30 filter is gonna keep turtle water clean Andrew...for two RES you need at the minimum 125 gallon tank with a canister filter and then all the fancy UVB lights and stuff.

[Andrew NDB]

there's a reason i never reccomend a turtle for a pet. Just don't get one. They cost so freaking much to care for it's insane. Housing at minimum for a red ear, one single male could run up $500 or more. big tank, stand, huge filter, heater, decor...then there's all the different food they need...pellets just don't cut it.

I forgot the heat lamp, but that's it. And for RESes, absolutely untrue, reptomin is ALL they need.

We as people like to say, "Oh, they must get tired of that same food all the time," but that's simply not the case. Tortoises and snappers and the like (which I also have) you have to balance their diet a little, but RESes are perfectly fine with your garden variety reptomin pellets.

[Revan]

there's a reason i never reccomend a turtle for a pet. Just don't get one. They cost so freaking much to care for it's insane. Housing at minimum for a red ear, one single male could run up $500 or more. big tank, stand, huge filter, heater, decor...then there's all the different food they need...pellets just don't cut it.

exactly. I just wasn't commited enough to my poor pet. But he's in a good place now with other sliders.

[Cascadia]

A $30 filter does not cut it...believe me. I had a either a Painted turtle or red-eared slider. The water was always dirty. I went out and got a much better filter system and things were fine. My box turtle passed away several years ago because it got too cold even if a good UV lamp. I was living in Colorado at the time and he was indoors and all. As for right now, I am not sure if it would be good to have a turtle.

[Andrew NDB]

No $30 filter is gonna keep turtle water clean Andrew...for two RES you need at the minimum 125 gallon tank with a canister filter and then all the fancy UVB lights and stuff.

That's just not true. I have the ZooMed 318 and just need to clean it out every 2 weeks or so (maybe change out the carbon treatment pellets inside the filter every 6 months or so). Water remains as clear as a whistle and the RESes have been as happy as clams the past 2 years.

[Buslady]

I forgot the heat lamp, but that's it. And for RESes, absolutely untrue, reptomin is ALL they need.

We as people like to say, "Oh, they must get tired of that same food all the time," but that's simply not the case. Tortoises and snappers and the like (which I also have) you have to balance their diet a little, but RESes are perfectly fine with your garden variety reptomin pellets.

Where's the UVB? My dear friend they can't utilize those reptomin without UVB = soft bones, bad shell. I have a problem right now cos my female wood turtle isn't getting enough UVB, her shell's weak right now. I'm bombarding her with outside excursions in a kiddie pool and food high in calcium. Ya gotta give them unfiltered sun or a 10.0 UVB blub.
As for variety, for mine, I have to vary their diets. My picky little woodies ... lemme tell you, primadonnas..but for a RES, they really do need variety because it's well known Reptomin, although one of the best pelleted foods(along with Mazuri) it does have too much protein....you gotta get them fatheads, if you like a little action...OMG...mine would chase those little minnows relentlessly. Try it. Keep them stimulated, it's good for their well being. Offer them a few leaves of romaine to nibble on. They do need fiber in their diets.
Pinkies are good too.
I've ran everything from a Zoomed 318 to their crappy wannabe canister filter and Zoomed's stuff is overpriced crap. Fluval's internals are so much better. How big are your RES & their tank!?!?

[Cascadia]

Spotty needed variety. She got strawberries, lettuce, minnows, turtle food, and some carrots. She was an outdoor girl with sunlight during the summers and UV lamps in the winter.

[Buslady]

Spotty needed variety. She got strawberries, lettuce, minnows, turtle food, and some carrots. She was an outdoor girl with sunlight during the summers and UV lamps in the winter.

yeah that sounds just right for any turtle. Turtles do get bored with the same thing. I gave my woods too much banana, they're so sick of it now...they won't touch it hahaahaha!!!! They were sure happy to get strawberries for a treat this time.

[Andrew NDB]

Where's the UVB? My dear friend they can't utilize those reptomin without UVB = soft bones, bad shell. I have a problem right now cos my female wood turtle isn't getting enough UVB, her shell's weak right now. I'm bombarding her with outside excursions in a kiddie pool and food high in calcium. Ya gotta give them unfiltered sun or a 10.0 UVB blub.
As for variety, for mine, I have to vary their diets. My picky little woodies ... lemme tell you, primadonnas..but for a RES, they really do need variety because it's well known Reptomin, although one of the best pelleted foods(along with Mazuri) it does have too much protein....you gotta get them fatheads, if you like a little action...OMG...mine would chase those little minnows relentlessly. Try it. Keep them stimulated, it's good for their well being. Offer them a few leaves of romaine to nibble on. They do need fiber in their diets. Pinkies are good too.

I have a supply of UVB/heat combo bulbs that have provided no problems. They eat and crap like crazy, and shells as sturdy as stone (never a trace of shellrot). They bask all the time (and even do cool balancing acts on top of each other). Oh, every once and again I have a little fun with the RESes. For some reason, they seem to LOVE calamari, or broccoli.

My land turtles are the most fun. My 3 toe box turtle and Hermann's tortoise will fight over dandylions and lettuce and grass and the like, yet still cuddle together in their little log or on the heat rock.

My 2 razor back musks are fun, too, and so ornery. Doesn't matter how much reptomin they have floating around, they'll always end up fighting over the same pellet.

[Cascadia]

yeah that sounds just right for any turtle. Turtles do get bored with the same thing. I gave my woods too much banana, they're so sick of it now...they won't touch it hahaahaha!!!! They were sure happy to get strawberries for a treat this time.

Spotty was the weird looking slider. Feisty was my boxie....he was a mess. He had to have so much variety.

[Revan]

I have a supply of UVB/heat combo bulbs that have provided no problems. They eat and crap like crazy, and shells as sturdy as stone (never a trace of shellrot). They bask all the time (and even do cool balancing acts on top of each other). Oh, every once and again I have a little fun with the RESes. For some reason, they seem to LOVE calamari, or broccoli.

My land turtles are the most fun. My 3 toe box turtle and Hermann's tortoise will fight over dandylions and lettuce and grass and the like, yet still cuddle together in their little log or on the heat rock.

My 2 razor back musks are fun, too, and so ornery. Doesn't matter how much reptomin they have floating around, they'll always end up fighting over the same pellet.

Sounds like you enjoy them very much. I got a warm fuzzy just reading your post.

[Andrew NDB]

My snappers are great fun in and of themselves, too. I just buy a bunch of guppies and toss them in the tank, and watch them slowly dwindle in numbers for the next few days. When they get a little bigger, they'll be graduating to goldfish! hehe. A few reptomin here and there in between guppy meals suits them just fine dietarily.

Fairly low maintenance otherwise. Snappers don't bask or require UV whatsoever (no, really), so it's just an investment in a heater. They like it about 75-80 degrees.

[Buslady]

I have a supply of UVB/heat combo bulbs that have provided no problems. They eat and crap like crazy, and shells as sturdy as stone (never a trace of shellrot). They bask all the time (and even do cool balancing acts on top of each other). Oh, every once and again I have a little fun with the RESes. For some reason, they seem to LOVE calamari, or broccoli.

My land turtles are the most fun. My 3 toe box turtle and Hermann's tortoise will fight over dandylions and lettuce and grass and the like, yet still cuddle together in their little log or on the heat rock.

My 2 razor back musks are fun, too, and so ornery. Doesn't matter how much reptomin they have floating around, they'll always end up fighting over the same pellet.

oh you got Powersuns? I used those before, they're good lights.
If you don't mind me bitching....don't feed them broccoli, yeah they like it BUT...here, I'm gonna quote the bible on turtle nutrition on Austin's Turtle Page, it explains it best:


Some veggies fall into a category called anti-nutrients. Oxalic acid and phytic acid bind with minerals, including calcium, preventing the availability of a significant percentage of calcium to the body. Goitrogens affect the absorption of iodine. Purines can increase the amount of uric acid, a particularly serious problem for arid species. Tannins, in high amounts, bind with protein and interfere with digestion. Foods falling into one or more of these categories include beans, beet greens, Brussels sprouts, Swiss chard, cauliflower, cabbage, collard greens, corn, mustard greens, peas, spinach, tofu (and other soy products), and turnip greens. Fruit also should be avoided because the Russian tortoise's digestive system can't process it. The sugar in fruit can cause parasite blooms as well as other problems. Other foods to avoid are cat or dog food, meat, and grains.




Snappers actually do bask but not as often as the typical baskers. I've seen pics of snappers at the surface of the water, that's as far as their basking usually goes. lol!

[bullet]

heheh andrew reading your posts makes me want turtles again :P

[Andrew NDB]

I hadn't read that before, but maybe I'll exclude broccoli from here on. Truth be told, RESes -- at least mine -- will literally eat anything you throw in the tank.

[Andrew NDB]

Snappers actually do bask but not as often as the typical baskers. I've seen pics of snappers at the surface of the water, that's as far as their basking usually goes. lol!

True, but their bodies don't require it like other turtles/tortoises. These are creatures that lurk around in the bottom of lakebeds, in mud and grime and such.

[Cascadia]

I have several reasons why I might not be able to have a turtle right now.

1) I do not know how my dog will take to a turtle
2) pet fee at my apartment complex--$250 for a reptile :o

[Buslady]

I hadn't read that before, but maybe I'll exclude broccoli from here on. Truth be told, RESes -- at least mine -- will literally eat anything you throw in the tank.

NAh that's ALLLLLL RES. They're basically the goats of turtledom and is one of the reason's they're so damn successful in nature aaannndddd why they can adapt to non-native locations where they get dumped the poor things. :( RES are true survivors, the perfect species for the TMNT

[Aries10]

I have one box turtle and painted turtle at the time. The box turtle (Donatello) is very picky with food. He enjoys romaine lettuce, strawberries (his favorite), and mixed vegetables. He will NOT touch anything else. I cannot get him to eat any meat at all. I have had him for about three years. When I first got him he was very timid but he finally got over that.

My painted turtle (Michelangelo) is still small. I have had him about a year. This little guy is really something else! I have never met a turtle with so much personality! He kicks his feet like crazy at dinner time and tries to swim right through the glass. He is always hungry. He does not totally trust me, but I do not blame him for it. Very friendly turtle. I have a $10 water filter and it keeps the water very clean. He uses a Desert-Sun 5.0 UVB light but in the summer I just take him outside all day.

[Andrew NDB]

I have several reasons why I might not be able to have a turtle right now.

1) I do not know how my dog will take to a turtle
2) pet fee at my apartment complex--$250 for a reptile :o

Wow, an apartment that actually cares about reptiles? Every apartment I've been in, I tell them I have some turtles, they just laugh and go, "Oh, we don't care about turtles... we care about dogs and cats and **** that'll ruin our apartment buildings."

I do have 3 cats. Occasionally I'll find one of them sleeping on top of one or two of my tanks and I'll swat'em off of it, or I'll find one curiously staring at a tank, but never any problems. You'll want a top to your tank, of course, though. :)

[Buslady]

I have several reasons why I might not be able to have a turtle right now.

1) I do not know how my dog will take to a turtle
2) pet fee at my apartment complex--$250 for a reptile :o

$250 for one of the CLEANEST and NON-STINKIEST animals!?!?!?!??!!??!?!

that's BS!!!!!!!

Yeah Dogs & Turtles don't mix. I know a CA Wood Turtle who's butt was bitten, just the marginals around his butt were chewed off, his tail and legs were untouched...he was lucky! A reptile store has him like a display, NFS...his name's Geronimo! I keep telling them they gotta find him a l'il lady! He could make pretty babies.

im reading all over turtle forum that snapper babies love to bask. why doncha set them a basking spot see what happens Andrew?

[Andrew NDB]

I have one box turtle and painted turtle at the time. The box turtle (Donatello) is very picky with food. He enjoys romaine lettuce, strawberries (his favorite), and mixed vegetables. He will NOT touch anything else. I cannot get him to eat any meat at all. I have had him for about three years. When I first got him he was very timid but he finally got over that.

A 3 toe box turtle? I was under the distinct impression you should not feed them meat, as they can't process it properly.

I was told they can handle grass just fine, though recently I'm starting to second guess that. A little bit graphic, but just the other day I pulled a long, black (digested, obviously) grass stem from its butt. Box turtles should be dealt with very carefully, in any event.

[Aries10]

I believe he is a common western box turtle. I was told by the breeder to feed him earthworms. Maybe I can post some pics tomorrow.

[Cascadia]

it is just odd....in terms of the price.

[Buslady]

I believe he is a common western box turtle. I was told by the breeder to feed him earthworms. Maybe I can post some pics tomorrow.


All boxies love earthworms, slugs & snails. When I had Lia, (3-toed) she was nuts for meal worms, earthworms and I'd bring her small snails from outside...she loved those.
Boxies are omnivores. And yes you do gotta have specific conditions for them and never kept in a glass tank, even tho I'm guilty. Lia seemed at ease in her 40. I adopted her to a guy who has a small colony of 3-toed, and she's made friends with a smaller female :D

Tortoises on the other hand should NEVER be fed anything meat. They are strict veggie heads and like turtles, should not get the oxy-blocking foods I mentioned in that quote. My russian gets dandelion(high in calcium), romaine, various squashes, tomato, carrot...and he's a little porker, russkies are small torties, I don't know where he puts it all!!!!!!!!

[Aries10]

I am aware of the no-glass tank rule for box turtles, but no one has ever explained why. I am guessing it has something to do with the fact they could break their shells on it? Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Andrew NDB]

All boxies love earthworms, slugs & snails. When I had Lia, (3-toed) she was nuts for meal worms, earthworms and I'd bring her small snails from outside...she loved those.
Boxies are omnivores. And yes you do gotta have specific conditions for them and never kept in a glass tank, even tho I'm guilty. Lia seemed at ease in her 40. I adopted her to a guy who has a small colony of 3-toed, and she's made friends with a smaller female :D

Tortoises on the other hand should NEVER be fed anything meat. They are strict veggie heads and like turtles, should not get the oxy-blocking foods I mentioned in that quote. My russian gets dandelion(high in calcium), romaine, various squashes, tomato, carrot...and he's a little porker, russkies are small torties, I don't know where he puts it all!!!!!!!!

That's right, I must be mixing the two informations. Though I was told, at least until my 3 toe youngling matures a bit, to just stick to the ritual of waking him up, setting him in his water pool with reptomin floating about and letting him gobble it up... every OTHER day.

To be honest, though, the 3 toe is very boring compared to the Hermann's tortoise. What a lively fellow! Always awake and about (seems to just sleep when I do!) trying to crawl over everything and anything. Still, when the two of them are awake and on the same page, it's quite the turtle show and dynamic duo.

[Buslady]

I am aware of the no-glass tank rule for box turtles, but no one has ever explained why. I am guessing it has something to do with the fact they could break their shells on it? Please correct me if I am wrong.

its that they can see through the glass and the ywant to go thru it and can't. pretty much ALL turtles & torties shouldn't be kept in glass. My Ben, the tort, his sleeping room is a 40g glass but it's full of alfalfa hay to sleep in. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00330.jpg

OUtside he gets this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00218.jpg

This used to be a pond until Raph and Mikey got out of it I got Raph but Mike never turned up :( he's gone. But I'm gonna get Raphers a preformed pond and set him up out back again. You can see Ben porking out :D he got mad cos i took his pic, he ran right into his hidey hole. hehe

Just cos i like bein a show off:

Raph, raised him since babyhood:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00214.jpg

And here's my Waterland tub for my ornate woods:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00324.jpg
(you can see Donnie off the the right)

And this damn thing: either im gonna plug up the open bulkhead hole and fix it up again for Raph or give it to Ben cos it's more room OR...give it to my baby ball python. Haven't decided.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00331.jpg

Oh yeah this is Jessie, she's got the weak shell problem. She's being a good girl and sitting under the UVB light right now! She knows.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00325.jpg

[Buslady]

That's right, I must be mixing the two informations. Though I was told, at least until my 3 toe youngling matures a bit, to just stick to the ritual of waking him up, setting him in his water pool with reptomin floating about and letting him gobble it up... every OTHER day.

To be honest, though, the 3 toe is very boring compared to the Hermann's tortoise. What a lively fellow! Always awake and about (seems to just sleep when I do!) trying to crawl over everything and anything. Still, when the two of them are awake and on the same page, it's quite the turtle show and dynamic duo.

I would give a little boxie a couple small worms a month cos they need the meat. It's not like a mandatory thing, but they need their protein. In the wild the babies are mostly bug eaters than veggie heads.

[Andrew NDB]

its that they can see through the glass and the ywant to go thru it and can't. pretty much ALL turtles & torties shouldn't be kept in glass.

Probably so, but what's the point, really, if you can't see your little guys? :)

I wonder if, like, some kind of reverse window tinting would be a suitable alternative (i.e., you can see in but they can't see out).

[Buslady]

Probably so, but what's the point, really, if you can't see your little guys? :)

I wonder if, like, some kind of reverse window tinting would be a suitable alternative (i.e., you can see in but they can't see out).


yeah I know. heh.
They do tell you, if you must keep them in tanks, to tape a barrier like maybe aquarium backing around their eye level of the tank so they can't see out and then you can still see in.

[Andrew NDB]

Raph, raised him since babyhood:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00214.jpg

Awesome pics, Buslady, all of them. You obviously have a caring hand to your turts.

Do your RESes eat rocks, too, btw? I'm told it's perfectly natural and healthy, even helps their natural digestive track... but how weird.

[Buslady]

Awesome pics, Buslady, all of them. You obviously have a caring hand to your turts.

Do your RESes eat rocks, too, btw? I'm told it's perfectly natural and healthy, even helps their natural digestive track... but how weird.

I've seen Raph poop out a few tiny rocks, the teeny ones that will pass through are okay. The bigger ones can be dangerous. These ones are too big for his mouth so he's good. There's a few tiny ones he might get but he's fine.
It's normal for lizards and some chelonians to take in rocks, like you said, helps grind up their chow aiding digestion.

[Revan]

OUtside he gets this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00218.jpg

All your pets look so fun and you are a great caregiver. My slider was named Raph too. :)

[bullet]

i think it's cute how he looks tiny in comparison to the huge plate of food before him. :lol:

[Jo Dawn]

I wanna turtle.

There was a red ear slider on sale the other day for $15, and he was sooo cute.

[Revan]

i think it's cute how he looks tiny in comparison to the huge plate of food before him. :lol:

Hahahah:lol: Thats like eating a cheeseburger as big as you

[jenna]

Reading all this makes me want a turtle - Buslady, yours look so cute. I couldn't have one though. I have two cats and they take all my attention - naughty b*ggers that they are.

Plus, if I had a turtle I'd get a bit despondent if it hadn't learned to be a ninja before too long ;)

[Aries10]

Here are the pictures of my turtles (blurry as usual):

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/Scans123/

Buslady, your pictures are wonderful. If you have any more please post them!
I would like to get a tortoise eventually.

[Revan]

Here are the pictures of my turtles (blurry as usual):

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/Scans123/

Buslady, your pictures are wonderful. If you have any more please post them!
I would like to get a tortoise eventually.

How many turtles do you have? They are so cool.

Is that last pic of you? pretty eyes

[Aries10]

I only have two turtles. I just went a little picture crazy.
Yes the last one is me, thank you for the kind words.

[jenna]

I'm curious - what came first, your interest in pet turtles or your interest in ninja turtles? This is addressed to all turtle lovers / owners.

[Revan]

^ Ninja turtles. I was 5 so I didn't really know much or like actual turtles as pets that early. After being a turtle fan though, I really like real turtles.

[bullet]

hm...ive always liked reptiles/amphibians as a kid. i've had frogs and snakes as pets as well. i also used to run after lizards, lol. so i dunno, hard to say.

[Warhorse]

$250 for one of the CLEANEST and NON-STINKIEST animals!?!?!?!??!!??!?!

that's BS!!!!!!!

Yeah Dogs & Turtles don't mix. I know a CA Wood Turtle who's butt was bitten, just the marginals around his butt were chewed off, his tail and legs were untouched...he was lucky! A reptile store has him like a display, NFS...his name's Geronimo! I keep telling them they gotta find him a l'il lady! He could make pretty babies.

im reading all over turtle forum that snapper babies love to bask. why doncha set them a basking spot see what happens Andrew?

Horses and Turtles dont mix well either. Horses tend to be scared of Turtles, but that's mainly because a horse can hear them, smell them, but they cant see them, especially if they are camouflaged in with the wilderness.

I remember one time a Turtle flying across the path of my horse. He freaked out. Reared up and flipped over backwards on top of me. I was ok, but pretty shaken up!

And oh, you people think a Turtle is an expensive animal to maintain, try to keep a horse!:D

[Fledermaus]

Um... I thought this was a thread regarding the anatomy of MUTANT turtles?... :-?

The TMNT themselves were finally, and recently revealed to actually, definitively be -- when they were normal -- red-earred sliders, the most common turtle out there (which makes sense, since they were always supposed to be common petshop turtles).

Aw, CRAP! :x And here I've been designing my chelonian TMNT after Western Pond Turtles... *slams head into keyboard numerous times* symdvnmlcnjkznxjnkcvjsdjkgvtb ytvcr

...

:( I guess I could make some minor adjustments to make em resemble red-eared sliders instead... still. All those goddamn stripes I'm gonna have to draw now. Ai Carumba!

Plus, the heads are gonna have to look even smoother now. Western pond turtles have much more angular heads...

ArrRRRRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Warhorse]

Ok. Want to talk about the anatomy of our mutant turtle friends.

In exodus 2. Leo gets stabbed and Raph gets "broke".

Where exactly would Leo have gotten stabbed, and what exactly was broken in Raph?:ohwell:

[Revan]

Ok. Want to talk about the anatomy of our mutant turtle friends.

In exodus 2. Leo gets stabbed and Raph gets "broke".

Where exactly would Leo have gotten stabbed, and what exactly was broken in Raph?:ohwell:

Leo gets stabbed through the chest/shoulder and the exit wound actually tears the back of his shell off.

I think Raph slightly severed the bond between his spine and his shell.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00318.jpg

[Warhorse]

Tears the bond between the shell and spine? Wouldn't that make Raph into a paraplegic of some sorts?

[Revan]

Ok I totally did not say tears the bond between the shell and spine

I believe I wrote, "slightly severed"

I think Raph slightly severed the bond between his spine and his shell.
yep

anyway severed was probably a poor word choice but you get the picture. Some kind of spinal injury.

[Buslady]

I wanna turtle.

There was a red ear slider on sale the other day for $15, and he was sooo cute.


Yeah but then there's $500 for the 75 gallon tank, $120 for the stand, $200 for the filter....hehe...

if anybody wants a chelonian...the absolute best is a Russian Tortoise, what Ben is. That's at big as he will be. They eat veggies only, can handle hot dry weather and are hardy little boogers.

[Buslady]

I'm curious - what came first, your interest in pet turtles or your interest in ninja turtles? This is addressed to all turtle lovers / owners.


I've always had reptiles. Usually a snake.
Then TMNT comes around but I couldn't afford a turtle. So, when it comes back in 2k3...I got the $, I have my own house...I can do what I want! WOO! So I went turtle crazy.

1 female ornate wood -Jessie
1 male ornate wood - Donatello
3 years later, 4 baby ornate woods(Steve(Irwin), Leo, Bender and Dax). 2 hatching soon. 3 starting development

Then there were the 4 res -all chinatown turtles: Tokka was adopted her and Casey are in a pond now. But Mike's gone, he got out. :cry: I have only Raph now.

Ben came to me from a student. She was on my bus and her cousin blurts out 'she's gotta turtle, and she's killing it!' she wasn't serious...i came to her place to take Ben, I find a gorgeous healthy tortoise. He's been awesome ever since.

I had a boxie, Lia, named after Greenwillow's Lia in her fics - PetCo gave her to me but she's now adopted out into a colony of 3-toed boxies one of my friends on turtleforum.com has.

I've rescued about 3 other RES, they went to a rescue who in turn kept the deformed one and adopted out the 2 others.

and yes, i have a snake.
ball python, 1 year old male...I still dont have a name for him!!

[Buslady]

Leo gets stabbed through the chest/shoulder and the exit wound actually tears the back of his shell off.

I think Raph slightly severed the bond between his spine and his shell.



That would either kill Raph or permanently disable him.
I think he actually got his plastron cracked bad. Depending on how bad, it's repairable...take a REALLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYY long time though.

[bullet]

unless of course you're a humanoid mutant, in which case it might take 3 days. :P

[Aignatius]

Yeah but then there's $500 for the 75 gallon tank, $120 for the stand, $200 for the filter....hehe...

if anybody wants a chelonian...the absolute best is a Russian Tortoise, what Ben is. That's at big as he will be. They eat veggies only, can handle hot dry weather and are hardy little boogers.

I have a RES who is outgrowing his 75 gallon tank, already. I adopted him about 5-6 years ago from some people who were moving, and he'd outgrown their small setup. They'd had him since he was about the size of a quarter. He's probably about 8 years old, now. Maybe a bit more.
They are not easy to keep, they do need a good filter setup, preferably a canister filter system (like a Fluval) or a pond filter, if the tanks bigger than 75 gallons.

Yes, yes, mutant turtle anatomy. I'm getting there. Years ago there was a neighbor's large turtle (shell was about a foot long) that fell from a balcony of a high-rise. He survived, but his shell was broken badly and his insides were falling out. :(
The owners came down and called a vet who picked the turtle up and took him to a veterinary hospital, where I heard they patched the shell up and the turtle survived. Tough lil' guys.

I figure if the TMNT busted their shells, they'd either be dealing with possible vital organ damage, or having a broken back. Breaking the edge of the shell wouldn't be so bad, though it's still painful. Turtles do have nerve endings under the keratinous layers, it's like a big fingernail on their back. 8)

[Fledermaus]

Okay... so here's a related, if not extremely strange question:

What if a turtle (or a mutant turtle for that matter) got an inorganic particle (like a bullet or arrowhead) somehow lodged into the carapace without actually going through the shell? Just lodged somewhere in between? :-?

Say it was too deep in to be easily pulled out. Would it pop out eventually, like a splinter? Or would you have to dig in there with pliers and... :ohwell: twist it out? What would you have to do, if anything, to aide the healing process?

[jenna]

In the episode after Exodus when these injuries occurred, Leo is pretty mobile but Raph can't move and is in a lot of pain. Maybe I'm just thinking from a human point of view, but wouldn't being stabbed in the shoulder be worse than a fractured plastron?

Also, in the old films, Raphael's shell is pretty badly scarred like it was smashed in places - wouldn't these kind of injuries be seriously life threatening when they occurred, especially given Aignatius's story about the turtle's insides coming out??

Fledermous, do you mean like in the new film with the obsidian disc in Raph's shell?

[Warhorse]

In the episode after Exodus when these injuries occurred, Leo is pretty mobile but Raph can't move and is in a lot of pain. Maybe I'm just thinking from a human point of view, but wouldn't being stabbed in the shoulder be worse than a fractured plastron?


While I'm pretty sure being stabbed right on through is no walk in the park. It's got to hurt like a female dog. But I would imagine the pressure of a cracked plastron could also have an effect on the breathing? Less you move, the easier it is to breath?

I was in a small steeple chase. Another rider and I collided, and the horses and us fell. I ended up with a dislocated soulder and a neck bone contusion. The other rider had a cracked chest plate. I could stand up and catch my horse and all. She couldnt move at all because of the excruciating pain. She's all right. But she quit riding after that. I'm guessing Raph and Leo had a similar experience.

[Fledermaus]

Fledermous, do you mean like in the new film with the obsidian disc in Raph's shell?

Yes, similar to that, but even more so because the foreign object would have penetrated the... what are they called -- the keratin layers? -- of the shell even further.

[Buslady]

I have a RES who is outgrowing his 75 gallon tank, already. I adopted him about 5-6 years ago from some people who were moving, and he'd outgrown their small setup. They'd had him since he was about the size of a quarter. He's probably about 8 years old, now. Maybe a bit more.
They are not easy to keep, they do need a good filter setup, preferably a canister filter system (like a Fluval) or a pond filter, if the tanks bigger than 75 gallons.

Yes, yes, mutant turtle anatomy. I'm getting there. Years ago there was a neighbor's large turtle (shell was about a foot long) that fell from a balcony of a high-rise. He survived, but his shell was broken badly and his insides were falling out. :(
The owners came down and called a vet who picked the turtle up and took him to a veterinary hospital, where I heard they patched the shell up and the turtle survived. Tough lil' guys.

I figure if the TMNT busted their shells, they'd either be dealing with possible vital organ damage, or having a broken back. Breaking the edge of the shell wouldn't be so bad, though it's still painful. Turtles do have nerve endings under the keratinous layers, it's like a big fingernail on their back. 8)


If your turtle's 8 years old outgrowing a tank, you sure it's a male? By then they're usually fully grown. 75's a minimum size, ideally a 200 is more like it.

Depending where it is, a broken shell also runs the risk of lung being punctured. Where's the guy's lungs? Under the shell of up front like humans?! :D

[Buslady]

Okay... so here's a related, if not extremely strange question:

What if a turtle (or a mutant turtle for that matter) got an inorganic particle (like a bullet or arrowhead) somehow lodged into the carapace without actually going through the shell? Just lodged somewhere in between? :-?

Say it was too deep in to be easily pulled out. Would it pop out eventually, like a splinter? Or would you have to dig in there with pliers and... :ohwell: twist it out? What would you have to do, if anything, to aide the healing process?


like in the movie? that was kinda pushing it. Raph would have felt the thing stuck in his back and it should have hurt like hell. It was deep enough where there would be some blood on the tip. Shells aren't THAT thick and they got nerves. I was like OH OUCH when Raph got that thing in his back

IMO plastron injuries would be worse, you move it's more painful to breathe and the broken pieces would pinch nerves and who knows what else.

[jenna]

like in the movie? that was kinda pushing it. Raph would have felt the thing stuck in his back and it should have hurt like hell. It was deep enough where there would be some blood on the tip. Shells aren't THAT thick and they got nerves. I was like OH OUCH when Raph got that thing in his back

IMO plastron injuries would be worse, you move it's more painful to breathe and the broken pieces would pinch nerves and who knows what else.

OK - poor old Raph. He really seems to take the blows.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

You know I'm almost positive he did feel the disk the entire time, but between being shot in the arm with who-knows-what, trying to find a place to hide, and keeping the door shut, he didn't really have time to reflect on how bad that thing was... Honestly, I'm just glad he didn't embed the disk any more than it already was when he passed out...

[Andrew NDB]

And shells don't heal real well. Takes years and years. People that go out and rescue turtles that get hit by cars and whatnot, they literally just have to use some kind of glue on their shells... and it never really heals.

[Fledermaus]

like in the movie? that was kinda pushing it. Raph would have felt the thing stuck in his back and it should have hurt like hell. It was deep enough where there would be some blood on the tip. Shells aren't THAT thick and they got nerves. I was like OH OUCH when Raph got that thing in his back

Well --Raph was sort of "drugged" when Don pulled it out. And they're not allowed to show blood in PG movies anymore, remember? :roll:

So what would you do after pulling something like that out of a turtle? Get the peroxide? Cover it with a band-aid? :-?

[Aignatius]

If your turtle's 8 years old outgrowing a tank, you sure it's a male? By then they're usually fully grown. 75's a minimum size, ideally a 200 is more like it.

Depending where it is, a broken shell also runs the risk of lung being punctured. Where's the guy's lungs? Under the shell of up front like humans?! :D

Yeah, he's a male. He's just a really big male. He had too much protein as a baby, so his shell is a bit lumpy and malformed. His shell is about 6" or so.

The tank is not the best for a turtle tank, it's more like a marine aquarium tank. Long and narrow. :)

He needs a nice little pond outside, is what I want to see. I'm looking for a home for him, but I'll keep him until I find a good one.

[jenna]

You know I'm almost positive he did feel the disk the entire time, but between being shot in the arm with who-knows-what, trying to find a place to hide, and keeping the door shut, he didn't really have time to reflect on how bad that thing was... Honestly, I'm just glad he didn't embed the disk any more than it already was when he passed out...

And it does say in the book that when it hits him, he cries out in pain. Maybe it got censored - they couldn't even show the discs coming at him (they just appeared as blurred objects) so maybe it was originally intended to be more of an injury than it was made out to be in the final cut. Bl**dy censorship :x

[Buslady]

Yeah, he's a male. He's just a really big male. He had too much protein as a baby, so his shell is a bit lumpy and malformed. His shell is about 6" or so.

The tank is not the best for a turtle tank, it's more like a marine aquarium tank. Long and narrow. :)

He needs a nice little pond outside, is what I want to see. I'm looking for a home for him, but I'll keep him until I find a good one.

yeah my Raph's shell's thick, really thick on the scutes where shoulders might go, i forgot what they're called, the ones over each arm on the back. So yeah he got too much too. But...it's not like so deformed he can't live a good healthy life. He's fine. Im gonna be getting a japanese pond turtle to live with him, i hate seeing him alone when he's been with others his whole life. The guy who invented the Waterland tubs breeds turtles too, he's got 2 year old males for a fair price.
Heey...maybe you can keep you boy in a Waterland tub (http://www.waterlandtubs.com)? they're a little pricey but they're easy to maintain, they can go outside and won't deteriorate from the sun rays like rubbermaids. i dunno just a suggestion :D check em out...i got the small one for Raph, he wasn't thrilled...the woodies love it. So Raph's outside in a little kiddie pool again. Ben has his big kiddie pool too hahah..im gonna get a preformed pond and build that up soon. The next big project :D

[Buslady]

And it does say in the book that when it hits him, he cries out in pain. Maybe it got censored - they couldn't even show the discs coming at him (they just appeared as blurred objects) so maybe it was originally intended to be more of an injury than it was made out to be in the final cut. Bl**dy censorship :x


yeah he cries out in pain - "aahahhh $#!+!" I'd loved if that was in it hahaha. Just one bad word from him...cos he cuses! Damn would have been great but they didn't even have that!

[jenna]

OK so it's been a few days since anyone last posted on this thread, and as I said, it's my favourite so here is my attempt to keep it alive...

Given the typical structure of the TMNT in all incarnations, would it really be possible for them to pull themselves into thier shells? This happened a lot in OT, and famously in film 1, but not so much of late. In the new film, to me it doesn't look possible- thir shells are too small and their bodies too big.

[bullet]

in the new movie i think their anatomy has been restructured to be more human than ever before...so it doesn't seem possible, as their shells don't even seem to be big enough for them to retract their legs...let alone their head and arms.

[Cascadia]

yeah he cries out in pain - "aahahhh $#!+!" I'd loved if that was in it hahaha. Just one bad word from him...cos he cuses! Damn would have been great but they didn't even have that!

If I remember right, he said that I do not feel too good several times in the movie.

[Aignatius]

yeah my Raph's shell's thick, really thick on the scutes where shoulders might go, i forgot what they're called, the ones over each arm on the back. So yeah he got too much too. But...it's not like so deformed he can't live a good healthy life. He's fine. Im gonna be getting a japanese pond turtle to live with him, i hate seeing him alone when he's been with others his whole life. The guy who invented the Waterland tubs breeds turtles too, he's got 2 year old males for a fair price.

I don't know, just off the top of my head... dorsal scutes? :P

Heey...maybe you can keep you boy in a Waterland tub (http://www.waterlandtubs.com)? they're a little pricey but they're easy to maintain, they can go outside and won't deteriorate from the sun rays like rubbermaids. i dunno just a suggestion :D check em out...i got the small one for Raph, he wasn't thrilled...the woodies love it. So Raph's outside in a little kiddie pool again. Ben has his big kiddie pool too hahah..im gonna get a preformed pond and build that up soon. The next big project :D

Those look pretty good! I had mine in an old bathtub out back, but it rusted out and became a planter. Now it's been hauled away. I'm moving next month into a much smaller place that will likely have no yard, so I have to wait to see what I have to work with. :)

As far as mutant turtles, I suspect they could feel through their shells, such as, if one put a hand on their back, they'd feel the pressure and probably the warmth, because when I put my hand on my turtle's shell, he reacts. If he's sleeping, and I touch the shell, he will wake up and startle, scramble off his perch into the water. When he had shell rot, and I had to clean it up, pluck off all the bad parts, it would bleed, and he would get very upset. Could tell it hurt like mad. He struggled and vigorously kicked at me. It's also the only time he tried to bite. :ohwell:

[Cascadia]

I don't know, just off the top of my head... dorsal scutes? :P


either Pleurals or Marginals


http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20020916140907/www.peteducation.com/images/articles/ill_turtle_carapace.gif


As far as mutant turtles, I suspect they could feel through their shells, such as, if one put a hand on their back, they'd feel the pressure and probably the warmth, because when I put my hand on my turtle's shell, he reacts. If he's sleeping, and I touch the shell, he will wake up and startle, scramble off his perch into the water. When he had shell rot, and I had to clean it up, pluck off all the bad parts, it would bleed, and he would get very upset. Could tell it hurt like mad. He struggled and vigorously kicked at me. It's also the only time he tried to bite. :ohwell:

There are nerves that go from the brain to their carapace and back. It is like if someone touched our backs, we can feel their hand. Also, the carapace is a fused backbone with a spinal cord that goes to the brain.

[jenna]

This is so interesting - I love it :D

[Andrew NDB]

This is so interesting - I love it :D

Agreed, this is fascinating.

[Buslady]

Yeah the Pluerals..thanks. I've tried to memorise the scutes but hell, it's a pain. That #1 plueral scute and it's opposite are thick on Raph.

Cool they used a diamonback terrapin. I love these guys.

It's hard to imagine they kill these for turtle soup! They're gorgeous! :( I bet those people who eat them, have never seen how beautiful this species is.

either Pleurals or Marginals


http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20020916140907/www.peteducation.com/images/articles/ill_turtle_carapace.gif



There are nerves that go from the brain to their carapace and back. It is like if someone touched our backs, we can feel their hand. Also, the carapace is a fused backbone with a spinal cord that goes to the brain.

Someone on turtleforum.com asked how their intelligence is; it's been said from a herpetologist on there, they are some of the most intelligent reptiles along with the crocodilians. NA Woodies are the most intelligent.

But don't compare them to mammals...you can't.

Anyways..Raph is going to have a new home soon too. There's a local who has 7 rescued RES and a pond...he really needs to be in a pond outside so I'm gonna let her adopt him.
I'm gonna get into tortoises, so other than my ornate wood turtles, I won't have other turtles; I'll keep my russian tortoise and hopefully soon raise a cute widdle red foot tortoise. I want a female or two for the russian, he needs a little company ;-) and maybe 2 red foots to breed eventually.

jsut to show off:
I got two hatchlings to pop out this week!
2 days old:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00374-1.jpg

just hatching right now, today, at this minute!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/buslady/Animals/DSC00381.jpg

[jenna]

Oh my God so amazing!!!!

Bless the little things....

Love your tea caddies by the way!!

[Buslady]

Oh my God so amazing!!!!

Bless the little things....

Love your tea caddies by the way!!

tea caddies?:???:

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

I think she means the TMNT canisters in the background. And yes, your little hatchling is adorable. :D

[Buslady]

I think she means the TMNT canisters in the background. And yes, your little hatchling is adorable. :D


ohhh okay...one's a money bank and the other was a holiday special, it had junk food in it now it holds my supply of Jelly Bellys

[tOkKa]

-->>http://canalphotos.org/7-14_canal_baby_snapping_turtle_5_PS_rz.jpg

So, BLADY,SF ..


great i die when i 'm 57.. ??


well crap .. ways ta go but i guess i'll start makin' my will out..


.. ok who wants all my TMNT cr4p ?~!

[jenna]

tea caddies?:???:

Oh yeah, sorry. I'm a Brit - I see anything that looks like a jar and I think tea. They are fab though.

[Swany]

Dude, I am totally soaking this all up. Its very interesting. I am quite interested in certain aspects of iology (even though I'm failing XD)

Anyhoo, on a more girly note. Those wee turtles as so freaking cute, I had no idea they were so small! My day has officially been brightened. (I kinda needed it too)

[Buslady]

Dude, I am totally soaking this all up. Its very interesting. I am quite interested in certain aspects of iology (even though I'm failing XD)

Anyhoo, on a more girly note. Those wee turtles as so freaking cute, I had no idea they were so small! My day has officially been brightened. (I kinda needed it too)

yeah about 1 inch when they come out of the egg. In 5 months, my oldest is 3 inches!

[jenna]

OK, 4 days have gone by and this thread has been dormant. Gotta kick start it again.

What do you think the texture of the mutant turtles skin is? They do not look erm... scaly(?) like normal turtles. Discuss. :)

[Warhorse]

OK, 4 days have gone by and this thread has been dormant. Gotta kick start it again.

What do you think the texture of the mutant turtles skin is? They do not look erm... scaly(?) like normal turtles. Discuss. :)

I keep thinking that they have a texture similar to a dolphin or a whale, but with bumps on the surface instead of smooth.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

You know, I always thought of their skin texture as being similar to that of a very old and heavily used basketball. :D

[Buslady]

OK, 4 days have gone by and this thread has been dormant. Gotta kick start it again.

What do you think the texture of the mutant turtles skin is? They do not look erm... scaly(?) like normal turtles. Discuss. :)

Not all turtle skin is scaly. The skin on my wood turtles necks is more smooth than scale, it's smooth but their arms have those thick scales.

I imagine their skin as a thicker version of human skin, hairless of course, rough in some areas like maybe behind the knees, elbows, armpits and along where their skin meets the shell.

by the way in a sadder note, that baby turtle in the egg, died. He was found the next day on his back, but alive. The paper towel he was on died up later in the day and it was hot in here; his belly button bit dried up and stuck to the towel which did him in. My fault.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Oh Buslady I'm so sorry to hear that. :cry:

[Rooish]

Me too, Buslady. It was just an accident though. You seem like a loving turtle mommy. :(

[Tinuvielsdreams]

I am sorry to hear that too, Buslady... I imagine it can't be easy with handling those little hatchlings and things like that can happen

I do like your explanation though I would imagine the texture of skin would change from smooth to rough depending on location

[Cascadia]

I am so sorry...I lost Feisty, my Boxie, 4 years ago...he got very ill and died in his tank.

[Swany]

Oh, I'm so sorry. What a wee shame.

Don't blame yourself.

[Buslady]

I still blame myself, I had a healthy little hatchling. He should be alive. I was stupid and didn't add a little water to his paper towel.

[Cascadia]

I blame myself for Feisty's death because I could not find a vet that can do reptiles.

[jenna]

Neither of you guys should blame yourselves - you did amazingly to keep such pets in the first place. It's no secret that reptiles are really hard to care for and I think you're both brilliantly cool for loving them so much and taking such good care of them. There's nothing constructive in pointing the finger: it just causes more pain.

It's tragic that these things happen and I am really sad for both of you, but don't blame yourselves.

[Cascadia]

Thank you....he was probably the hardest one to take care of. This is what he looked like. This is him but very similar.

http://museum.utep.edu/chih/theland/animals/reptiles/terrornat.jpg

[Warhorse]

Thank you....he was probably the hardest one to take care of. This is what he looked like.

http://museum.utep.edu/chih/theland/animals/reptiles/terrornat.jpg

Wow. That's sad. He was such a beautiful turtle. Those markings on his back are gorgeous. Hey, is it true that no two turtles have the same marking on their shell, like we dont have the same finger print?

[Cascadia]

That is a good question that I do not know how to answer. I have owned several species of turtles---a Painted turtle, my boxie, a snapper, a red-eared slider and a turtle that someone claimed to be a slider of some type. I never had several turtles of the same species at the same time. I think that this is a Buslady question.

[Buslady]

Thank you....he was probably the hardest one to take care of. This is what he looked like. This is him but very similar.

http://museum.utep.edu/chih/theland/animals/reptiles/terrornat.jpg

I think that's a female Fla boxie. WHoever owns her is lucky! She's gorgeous.

Yeah all turtles have slightly differing patterns. RES with their yellowstripes will be very similar but there's always slight differences.

[jenna]

Wow. That's sad. He was such a beautiful turtle. Those markings on his back are gorgeous. Hey, is it true that no two turtles have the same marking on their shell, like we dont have the same finger print?

In the films you can see the ninja turtles have different patterns on their shells. I particularly like Donatello's in film 1 - it's this gorgeous mottled texture.

[a_big_apple]

It just occurred to me...do turtles have nostrils? Because the TMNT don't seem to...in which case, how do they breathe when their mouths are closed?

For some reason this little detail seems very crucial to me right now...probably because it's two in the morning and I'm sleep deprived!

[bullet]

yes they do have nostrils, since they can't breathe through their skin like amphibians. but er...the ninja dudes have mutated to a highly advanced stage where they breathe through...their pupils?

[Cascadia]

through their pupils?....:lol: probably not.

[Scandia]

Their nostrils are probably very thin lines that are not easily seen. Remember that turtles are reptiles and not amphibians. Hence they need nostrils in order to breathe. And adult amphibians also breathe through their nostrils anyway.

I do notice at times that the TMNT heads do look more like frogs at times. But the shells give it away that they are Chelonians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibians

[Buslady]

When I draw a TMNT without mask, I draw nostrils...of course they got em, it's just a detail they never really bothered with.
It's funny cos me and Bess had the same ideas where they're located:
We both figured we don't see them cos their masks are hiding their 'nose'.
this is her piccie:

http://tmnt.besshudson.com/dwellerknowitall.jpg
There are species of turtle who have the ability to absorb O2 from the water via skin, tail and throat. These guys, I don't see it happening.

[a_big_apple]

Hmm, my computer isn't liking that link, Buslady...but I think I can picture what you're saying. that would explain why, in the impressively detailed CG, you can't see any nostrils. :) I love it when things make sense! And Scandia, the slits-instead-of-holes image makes a lot of sense to me, too. I feel sated in my quest for knowledge, lol!

[jenna]

I spent ages on Bess's website looking at he art after following the link - it's really amazing.

OK - quick - we can't let this thread die.... someone think of another question! I'm all out! We've done teeth, sweating, shells, plastrons, retracting into shells, nostrils, tears, body temperature regulation, hot / cold blood... colour of blood, claws... what else is there left?

[Warhorse]

How about their feet? How tough are their feet, since they are shown 90% of the time with out protective foot wear?

Are they like our normal feet used to the elements, or are they more like the pads of dogs and cats?

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Oh good question. I always thought they were like normal feet but extremely calloused (for obvious reasons).

[Buslady]

You know what's funny, real turtle skin is not thick at all; because of this their skin grow thick scales on their arms and legs. Their feet are a little thicker.

Their soles, I would imagine, thickened cos of walking bare their whole lives.

[PipingPringle]

Imagine all the glass and stuff they musta stepped on over the years!

[a_big_apple]

I spent ages on Bess's website looking at he art after following the link - it's really amazing.


What's the address of the site? I can now see the image in the forum, but there's no link to follow anymore, for some reason.... I want to see more! :)

[bullet]

i believe this is her dA account (http://ladyrsanti.deviantart.com/gallery/).

[Cascadia]

i believe this is her dA account (http://ladyrsanti.deviantart.com/gallery/).

that is her account.

[Buslady]

yeah take a look at bess's work and prepare to be floored. realism is her style.
go to besshudson.com and clicky on the fanart thingy and see more. Some art for my fics too. she's amazing :D

[a_big_apple]

Thanks for hookin' me up! Man.... you're right, I was floored. I also laughed my a** off at the "Gorey Turtles".......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

DAYUM her art is beautiful. I can't stop staring....her photomanips are unbelievable. Hey Bus, care to explain Mira? I read some of the comments and apparently she's Mike's child from an RPG? Can you point me in the direction of said RPG?

EDIT: Oh wow, I didn't know this was the same artist who did work on GreenWillow's fanfiction. I loved that story, and I loved that artwork. To think, I never really looked into everything she created before. Silly me. :goof:

[Buslady]

DAYUM her art is beautiful. I can't stop staring....her photomanips are unbelievable. Hey Bus, care to explain Mira? I read some of the comments and apparently she's Mike's child from an RPG? Can you point me in the direction of said RPG?

EDIT: Oh wow, I didn't know this was the same artist who did work on GreenWillow's fanfiction. I loved that story, and I loved that artwork. To think, I never really looked into everything she created before. Silly me. :goof:

Miracle, aka Mira, aka Miri(raph calls her that) is Mike and an OC (Karen) kiddie, she is glued to Raph, got him wrapped around her finger and he would do anything for her, her l'il bro and the other kiddies. He's the only one without a family but secretly dreams of his own cos in this game he wants life as normal as possible; he isn't too swift with the girls, he rushes into things. It's pitiful. So far the poor slob's had a whirlwind crush on Ape's sis Robyn and later one, her roomie. He gave up after the roomie left.
Theres no real structure to the game, we come up with ideas as we go. It's crazy. it's on myh forum http://buslady.s1.bizhat.com/index.php?mforum=buslady

it's the tagboard rpg. it's split to 'the ranch' or NYC..or something.

[jenna]

OK here's a question I was wondering about today. Don't laugh at me for being ignorent, please remember I know nothing about turtles, but the new movie design made me wonder.... do turtles have green skin all across their chests and bellies under their plastrons and are the plastrons attached to their skin,or can they... or are the shells separate? I don';t know if my question makes sense, because I'm cr*p at vocalising my thoughts right now.

[Swany]

OK here's a question I was wondering about today. Don't laugh at me for being ignorent, please remember I know nothing about turtles, but the new movie design made me wonder.... do turtles have green skin all across their chests and bellies under their plastrons and are the plastrons attached to their skin,or can they... or are the shells separate? I don';t know if my question makes sense, because I'm cr*p at vocalising my thoughts right now.

Thats exactly what I was going to ask. I remember someone posted a picture of a shell and you could see the shape of the spine. Is there any flesh at all under the shell?

[Buslady]

OK here's a question I was wondering about today. Don't laugh at me for being ignorent, please remember I know nothing about turtles, but the new movie design made me wonder.... do turtles have green skin all across their chests and bellies under their plastrons and are the plastrons attached to their skin,or can they... or are the shells separate? I don';t know if my question makes sense, because I'm cr*p at vocalising my thoughts right now.

Turtle and tortoises shells consist of 3 parts: Carapace, Plastron and the bridges on each side that brace the top & bottom. Some species the bridges are kinda nonexistant as in boxies where the carapace meets the plastron at the bottom. Some species the plastron is minimal like in musks, muds and snappers. Some plastrons are hinged as in boxies and muds & musks or the the hingeback tortoise where the top rear portion is hinged. Which IMO is weird.

The actual skin attatches to the shell at the edges just inside the shell, there is no skin under the plastron, bridges or carapace. The lungs are located right under the carapace actually. You can not take a turtle out of their shell.

the slogan 'heroes in a half shell' makes no sense realistically...a turtle's shell is a whole, not a half. Now if you were talking clams, oysters, and other mollusks...sure...but not chelonians.

[Swany]

Wow, thats pretty interesting. You wonder how an animal evolved like that.

[Revan]

the slogan 'heroes in a half shell' makes no sense realistically...a turtle's shell is a whole, not a half.

:lol: That always confused the hell out of me:lol: And I thought I just didn't get it

[Andrew NDB]

:lol: That always confused the hell out of me:lol: And I thought I just didn't get it

You kind of have to throw any kind of reason or logic out the window in any rational discussion about the original cartoon.

"Heroes in a half shell" is a nonsense lyric. Did they lose any part of their shells when they mutated? No.

[Andrew NDB]

When I draw a TMNT without mask, I draw nostrils...of course they got em, it's just a detail they never really bothered with.
It's funny cos me and Bess had the same ideas where they're located:
We both figured we don't see them cos their masks are hiding their 'nose'.
this is her piccie:

http://tmnt.besshudson.com/dwellerknowitall.jpg
There are species of turtle who have the ability to absorb O2 from the water via skin, tail and throat. These guys, I don't see it happening.

I kind of imagine them on the bottom of the TMNT's upper lip, if anywhere, but between the eyes is as good a place to put them as any.

[teletran]

My this thread's grown big since I've been away, it's good to see people enjoying somthing I helped to start.

I'm just going to go over some recent topics quickly to add my two cents.

As to the texture of the turtles' skin I'd say it would like elephant skin or leather, smooth and shiny from a distance but kind of scaly looking up close. I notice that most turtles seem to look like this anyway.

Now for the all important question, where do you put the nostrils? In the live action movies they where located directly below the eyes conveniently allowing the actors to see out of the masks, this was good enough for me until I started looking at real turtles, when I decided the Lady R. Santi/Buslady between the eyes approach was best.

As far as I know humans invented the idea of foot protection and as yet few other species have taken advantage of it, horses and the occasional elephant (I can't remember where I heard that and it's going to bug me for the rest of the day) but not as a rule turtles. I would think that the turtle's skin is slightly thicker than that of humans (is a turtle's skin thicker or thinner than that of a mammal of equal size?) but even humans (notably the Australian aboriginal and the Kalahari Bushmen) can survive being barefoot all there life as the soles become heavily calloused.
While on the subject of the turtle's feet I thought I'd mention that in the past I developed a theory based on the turtles developing from baby turtles with three toes on each foot, which we now know would be a mutation in itself. The idea was that the forelegs become arms and two fingered hands with an opposing thumb and the hind feet develop along the same lines up to a point and then flattening out to become bipedal feet, the proto thumb forming the heel as a kind of dew claw (a vestigial two at the back of the foot). I have since abandoned this model in favour of a more human structure.

Could someone please post a picture of how a turtle's skin attaches to the shell?
In a zoo I visited recently they use fibreglass to repair damage to a turtles shell.
I'm not sure if the turtles can retract their heads into their shells, I tend to doubt it although if their necks are long and flexible enough and the opening of the shell wide enough to admit the head then I can't see any structural reason why they shouldn't, after all they don’t have any ribs to speak of so if the collar bones and organs leave enough room then maybe. But the legs and arms can jolly well stay outside.

Well I think I'm more or less up to date except that in all my travels I didn't get around to seeing the tmnt movie :ohwell: GRR.

[TurtleTrails]

yeah take a look at bess's work and prepare to be floored. realism is her style.
go to besshudson.com and clicky on the fanart thingy and see more. Some art for my fics too. she's amazing :D

I'm completely speechless! She does an amazing job with details! The musculature is so accurate it's astounding! Haha, plus I'm an arms kinda girl so obviously I go towards that first. Lavish appraisal to Bess!!!! She is very very talented!! My imagination is going wild! :)

[Buslady]

I'm completely speechless! She does an amazing job with details! The musculature is so accurate it's astounding! Haha, plus I'm an arms kinda girl so obviously I go towards that first. Lavish appraisal to Bess!!!! She is very very talented!! My imagination is going wild! :)

dont worry i like arms too...when she draws raph...oohhh man:P :D im a sucker for cute tails too:lol:

[Buslady]

[quote=teletran;521604]

Could someone please post a picture of how a turtle's skin attaches to the shell?
In a zoo I visited recently they use fibreglass to repair damage to a turtles shell.
quote]
I can tzake some pics of my turtles where the skin attatches. but not right now cos i gotta go do some bus drivin'...

dont the stupid zoo know that today fiberglas aint used to fix shells? oh well.

[Warhorse]

So, what do you think the TMNT's senses are like. Their visual, hearing, sence of smell? Their instincts. Do you think they could still communicate with a regular turtle on a sub-conscience level?

What about their physical strength. How well can they swim compared to humans and turtles? How long can the hold their breaths? Do they have tolerances and reactions to chemicals? What is their immune system like? How well can they fight off diseases and infections?

Just some food for thought.:D

[TurtleTrails]

dont worry i like arms too...when she draws raph...oohhh man:P :D im a sucker for cute tails too:lol:

Raph's picture is great. It really showcases his personality. I just want to tug on his tail! I personally love the Leonardo picture. (of course :lol: ) His posture is so commanding and at the same time his eyes are so gentle. *swoon*

[Buslady]

So, what do you think the TMNT's senses are like. Their visual, hearing, sence of smell? Their instincts. Do you think they could still communicate with a regular turtle on a sub-conscience level?

What about their physical strength. How well can they swim compared to humans and turtles? How long can the hold their breaths? Do they have tolerances and reactions to chemicals? What is their immune system like? How well can they fight off diseases and infections?

Just some food for thought.:D

Turtle sight is keen. Smell is very very keen. Hearing isn't so much but our heroes obviously have good hearing, so that is evolutionary for them.
I could see them living with instinct, what are usually yearly urges with some animals is most often year round with turtles...that has got to be hard for them...no pun intended;) :lol:
I'd think they have a small tolerance to some substances, they were mutated by radioactive goop, it could have given them some resistance.


Raph's picture is great. It really showcases his personality. I just want to tug on his tail! I personally love the Leonardo picture. (of course ) His posture is so commanding and at the same time his eyes are so gentle. *swoon*

Ouch...tail pulling...oowwwwieeee..that'd hurt, especially if someting really sensitive is in there...

eeeeeeek gotta run to work!

[teletran]

I've heard that some people think turtles are colour blind but it hasn't been proven. I think our turtles could have better hearing because their skulls are larger and proportionally wider than any ordinary turtle's, so they could have larger and more complex auditory sense organs. I know that turtles have external eardrums but do they have auditory canals as well?

[Buslady]

I've heard that some people think turtles are colour blind but it hasn't been proven. I think our turtles could have better hearing because their skulls are larger and proportionally wider than any ordinary turtle's, so they could have larger and more complex auditory sense organs. I know that turtles have external eardrums but do they have auditory canals as well?

actually their tympanum (ear drum) is internal, covered by thin skin. All you see is a circle on each side of the head, behind the lower jaw. I tried to get a photo of Ben's ear but the camera kept taking blurry pucs. Oh well. Turtles and Tortoises are more in tune to vibrations than sound, and as far as sound goes they seem to be like elephants-able to hear the subsonic sounds, the really low low frequency sounds. And yes they have everything associated with the auditory anatomy, it's just tuned differently.

Now lizards, they have a holes in their head and you can see their tympanum right within the hole. And snakes have non at all. They use their tounge to 'hear' vibrations in the air.

[TurtleTrails]

Ouch...tail pulling...oowwwwieeee..that'd hurt, especially if someting really sensitive is in there...


Okay, didn't know that. No pulling on the tail then. Something sensitive in the tail...you mean nerves?

How do turtles communicate to each other? Do they use mostly vibrations or noises?

[Buslady]

Okay, didn't know that. No pulling on the tail then. Something sensitive in the tail...you mean nerves?
noooo i mean their tool....:lol: :lol:



How do turtles communicate to each other? Do they use mostly vibrations or noises?

they have no vocal chords at all, but male torts do um...either squeel or make grunting noises when mating. :lol:
They communicate with body language pretty much. Jessie's piercing gaze can either entice or shun Donnie from getting it on...it's hilairous. I have no clue what she's saying but she's saying something.

[Andrew NDB]

Had a bit of a scare with my baby 3 toe box turtle. He/she wasn't eating for about a week, and stayed out of the heat lamp(s) for all this time and kind of like slept all the time. Was all I could do to keep spraying a bit of water on him/her from time to time.

Just yesterday he/she made a full recovery! Was quite ornery, I saw him/her fighting in a tug of war with his/her Hermann's tortoise roommate over a piece of lettuce, so I put him/her in a seperate tray with water and a ton of soaked reptomin... ate it all by the truckload, and still looked hungry! Quite feisty again, back in good spirits.

[Buslady]

You put a tortoise in with a boxie!?!?!?
ohh dont let me go on about pathogens and different requirements they both need....*shuts up...*

[Andrew NDB]

You put a tortoise in with a boxie!?!?!?
ohh dont let me go on about pathogens and different requirements they both need....*shuts up...*

I was told by plenty of enthusiasts on turtle forums that it would be OK... just to avoid feeding certain things.

They get along fine. Both can eat/process grass, dandylions, reptomin, lettuce and the like.

[jenna]

noooo i mean their tool....:lol: :lol:




OK, I don't mean to be ignorent, but their c*cks are attached to their tails? How does that work??

[Buslady]

OK, I don't mean to be ignorent, but their c*cks are attached to their tails? How does that work??


Lets not use slang, keep it 'mature'.

Their penises are kept in their tails; there is one exit called the cloaca or vent; both waste and reproduction happens thru this one orifice. I believe when they poo they pull the penis into the body so they don't get it exposed to their dooings; males are easy to tell after about 4" in size because their tails are growing longer and thicker cos they're packing. Females' tails stay short and dainty. :P
How the males keep that thing inside and hidden, I dunno cos it's HUGE. The only reason I can think of why that it's large cos they have to reach far just to get to the female and then, reach way up inside. Then...like dogs, they get stuck for awhile.:lol: Turtle reproduction doesn't look all fun, but my Donnie sure seems to like it.:lol:

SO...
going with that information, I would imagine our heroes are well endowed in certain areas :D And Raph just produces too much testosterone :P

[Buslady]

I was told by plenty of enthusiasts on turtle forums that it would be OK... just to avoid feeding certain things.

They get along fine. Both can eat/process grass, dandylions, reptomin, lettuce and the like.

yeah but both species have different pathogens that could be fatal to the other. at least thats what I'm told by herptologists.

Well, whatever. 'course I kinda cheated...your supposed to quarentine new animals....well, my new female russian tortoise Alicia was in with Ben the first day. Same species, so pathogens were no issue. She's healthy as a horse it seems, and eats like one. So I put her in.

[Andrew NDB]

yeah but both species have different pathogens that could be fatal to the other. at least thats what I'm told by herptologists.

Well, whatever. 'course I kinda cheated...your supposed to quarentine new animals....well, my new female russian tortoise Alicia was in with Ben the first day. Same species, so pathogens were no issue. She's healthy as a horse it seems, and eats like one. So I put her in.

I quarantined both. And they've been living together for about 3 months now. :) Consulted many before I purchased either.

I'm just happy whatever befell the 3 toe totally subsided.

[jenna]

Lets not use slang, keep it 'mature'.



Sorry to have cause offence :ohwell:

[Buslady]

Sorry to have cause offence :ohwell:

no offence taken. its just keeping it with out slang it keeps the topic clean and the powers that be won't go insane.
now if it were in my forun i dont care. it's not a kiddie forum.
:P

[Buslady]

I quarantined both. And they've been living together for about 3 months now. :) Consulted many before I purchased either.

I'm just happy whatever befell the 3 toe totally subsided.

yeah boxies are delicate little squirts. I adoped mine to a guy up north who has a nice family of 3-toeds. He said she's made friends with one particular female and often hangs out with her. It's funny...alot of "experts" say they don't make friends, aren't social, aren't this or that...baloney.
Lia's made friends.
Donnie & Jessie are always together.
Ben's now just starting to show off to Alicia. I caught him head bobbing.

Now that would be funny. TMNT's courtshipping displays...head bobbing, head swinging and claw fluttering..LOL!

[TurtleTrails]

OK, I don't mean to be ignorent, but their c*cks are attached to their tails? How does that work??

Thanks for asking Jenna! I was curious too but I didn't have the guts to ask.

[Scandia]

So is turtle fertilization internal or external?

Translation- what will Mikey's and Seri's children be like? How can a turtle mate with a dinosaur? Or is Mikey gonna get a nasty surprise? At least Casey always knew that Shadow was not his biological daughter.

[Buslady]

So is turtle fertilization internal or external?

Translation- what will Mikey's and Seri's children be like? How can a turtle mate with a dinosaur? Or is Mikey gonna get a nasty surprise? At least Casey always knew that Shadow was not his biological daughter.

All reptiles are internal fertilization. They all get true blue nookie :lol:

Amphibians are all external and alot of folks get them confused. Except newts, well, I dunno if you can consider that internal or external cos the male doesnt have a tool to use, he transfers a package of sperm to the female who lays the eggs after it breaks open and fertilizes them. heyre weird

Mike and Seri's "kids" IF they're HIS...which I don't think they are, would possibly be a mix of their species or a horrible concotion that just don't work, to which nothing will hatch because they'd die in egg if they're not compatible.
I dont think they his because they cant just mate and the next minute have eggs. it takes at least 2 mos for a female to create the shell to enclose the ova...that's after mating. so i think she's framing his butt cos she got nookie with a triceraton...

[jenna]

So is turtle fertilization internal or external?

Translation- what will Mikey's and Seri's children be like? How can a turtle mate with a dinosaur? Or is Mikey gonna get a nasty surprise? At least Casey always knew that Shadow was not his biological daughter.

:-? :-? :-?

None of this makes sense to me. Who is Seri? What's Mikey doing mating with a dinosaur? I thought Shadow was Casey's daughter.

This has just spun me into a whole world of stuff I don't know about TMNT.

[Buslady]

:-? :-? :-?

None of this makes sense to me. Who is Seri? What's Mikey doing mating with a dinosaur? I thought Shadow was Casey's daughter.

This has just spun me into a whole world of stuff I don't know about TMNT.

Shadow is his adopted kid, the mom died and he got the kid cos he was with her...Gabriel i think her name was. so casey and ape raised her with 4 mutant uncles which one of them was surprisingly semi-gooshy with her hehe...and a rat grandad.

mikey took a job in the current series as a sort of earth guide for alien visitors and got stuck with a ceratopsid princess and got a little TOO close with her..but she initiated the nookie and now she's framed his butt...

[jenna]

Shadow is his adopted kid, the mom died and he got the kid cos he was with her...Gabriel i think her name was. so casey and ape raised her with 4 mutant uncles which one of them was surprisingly semi-gooshy with her hehe...and a rat grandad.

mikey took a job in the current series as a sort of earth guide for alien visitors and got stuck with a ceratopsid princess and got a little TOO close with her..but she initiated the nookie and now she's framed his butt...

:o Ooh, thanks for clearing that up. Sounds.... erm.... scandalous.

[Scandia]

So Seri seduced Mikey then? What volume was this?

From what has been said in this thread, it looks like she seduced him to get a putative father for her babies who would be caring and responsible.

But I can already hear Maury Povich saying:

"When it comes to Seri's babies, Michelangelo, you are NOT the father!"

While Mikey would love kids, whether he sired them or not, if there was deceit he would not be immune to feeling betrayed.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

So Seri seduced Mikey then? What volume was this?

From what has been said in this thread, it looks like she seduced him to get a putative father for her babies who would be caring and responsible.

But I can already hear Maury Povich saying:

"When it comes to Seri's babies, Michelangelo, you are NOT the father!"

While Mikey would love kids, whether he sired them or not, if there was deceit he would not be immune to feeling betrayed.

It's in Volume 4, Scandia. :D And your post have given me wonderful visuals....

[Scandia]

Which issue specifically? I should have been clearer. There are 28 issues now in Volume 4.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

I want to say somewhere between issues 16-20 it happened. I don't have all of volume 4 yet, so I can't say for sure-- I'm just going by the tiny summaries found on the official site.

[Swany]

Would they not be sterile anyway, form the exposure to the mutagen?
Or at least because of there DNA being altered would there not be spontaneous abortion?

[Scandia]

Those are all very plausible points. The only place where I have seen that it says that Seri has laid the eggs containing their children sometime during 2005 was the Michelangelo Wikipedia article.

From what people here have told me, and from what I know about biology and chemistry...I think that poor Mikey has been FRAMED!!!

[Buslady]

I like to think they're fully capable, I think their reproductive prowess is up to the fan. If they were compatible with anybody it'd be human cos whatever that mutagoo had in it, had to have human DNA in it that was absorbed by their skin, finding it way into their genetic codes rewriting them into something that is humanoid. I don't care what Peter Laird says about their desires, but hell they're males, they're adults, they have desires, Raph likes babes, Mikey likes babes...it's been hinted...he only denies them of what they should have.

[jenna]

Either way, the genes wouldn't get further than one generation - any progency wouldn't be able to repruduce if it is the result of interspecies mating.