Shredderville vs. The Same as It Never Was

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Shredderville and The Same As It Never Was on a basic level have the same plot, Shredder takes over the world in an alternate timeline, though the execution was different. Which episode was better? Which timeline would you rather live in?

[Spitfire]

Shredderville was better because it was as long as it needed to be and it didn't feel rushed.

Same As It Never Was is just an overrated episode that 2K3 fans drool over because they think it's so "dark" in reality it just becomes silly with how bad the deaths are and how rushed the plot is. Maybe had it been given 2 parts it could have been better. People who think SAINW is the darkest 2K3 episode really need to re-watch "The Darkness With-In" and "I'Monster"

As for where I'd want to live? Shredderville for sure. I mean Shredder didn't know what he was doing and he had no control so you could pretty much do what you wanted.

[Jester]

I'd have to agree with SAINW being to rushed and the deaths being a bit of a stretch, but I still like the dark distopia as opposed to the wacky mixed up world of Shredderville. I mean I like Shredderville, but SAINW trumps it IMO.

[Coola Yagami]

I'd live in Shredderville and have April and Irma as my harem. :)

[The Master Meglomaniac]

As for where I'd want to live? Shredderville for sure. I mean Shredder didn't know what he was doing and he had no control so you could pretty much do what you wanted.

Still in Shredderville, the Technodrome went nuclear and took out NYC, so it wouldn't pleasant if you lived in NYC. Still getting blown up is better than dying in a forced labour camp, a quick death is always better. I suppose the world being controlled by an idiot, is way better than the world being controlled by a blood thristy psychopath.

[Jester]

Yeah, as for living I'd also choose to live under OT Suit and Tie Shredder, man I need to do a new toon with him

[Coola Yagami]

Still in Shredderville, the Technodrome went nuclear and took out NYC, so it wouldn't pleasant if you lived in NYC. Still getting blown up is better than dying in a forced labour camp, a quick death is always better. I suppose the world being controlled by an idiot, is way better than the world being controlled by a blood thristy psychopath.

Isn't the world run by an idiot now?

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Isn't the world run by an idiot now?

Perhaps, but be glad he still in charge, because if he was impeached his second in command would take over and he is a blood thirsty psychopath. :D

[Jester]

Careful, political discussion is a no-no on the boards.

[Ava Collier]

Careful, political discussion is a no-no on the boards.

Or religeous discussion. Nobody mention Agent Bishop...ever. :P

I've never seem SAINW, but from what I understand, it's every reason I don't read the comics. Shredderville please!...besides, it looked like Krang could use a friend.

[TheAnimatedSeries]

Isn't the world run by an idiot now?

That was HILARIOUS.

[triplexxx]

Shredderville was better because it was as long as it needed to be and it didn't feel rushed.

Same As It Never Was is just an overrated episode that 2K3 fans drool over because they think it's so "dark" in reality it just becomes silly with how bad the deaths are and how rushed the plot is. Maybe had it been given 2 parts it could have been better. People who think SAINW is the darkest 2K3 episode really need to re-watch "The Darkness With-In" and "I'Monster"

As for where I'd want to live? Shredderville for sure. I mean Shredder didn't know what he was doing and he had no control so you could pretty much do what you wanted.
I can't think of any long opinions right now, so I'll just agree with this, except that I wouldn't want to live in either timeline.

[Revan]

My judgement of which episode is better is completely clouded by the fact that I liked SAINW more. Though it may not be the darkest ep ever, I believe it is dark. Any ep in which a turtle, or 3 for that matter, dies is quite dark imo. The end sequence seemed rushed I'll agree but it I think it got it's point across.
I agree the turtles deaths are a bit silly, but the point gets across, they die. The animators didn't take the time to give each turtle a dramatic death and I was a angered by that but they were just showing simply that the turtles die in their final conflict. I did love the familiar raph leo conflict though.

Spit,
Do you think the whole SAINW ep was rushed or just the end sequence?
What exactly is the rat king?
What exactly is Bishop?

[Ninjinister]

I only barely remember Shredderville (how can any of you people remember ALL of these OS toon episodes? Unless this one was recently released on DVD...), but from what I remember, Same As It Never Was definately has it beat as an episode. While definately not the darkest episode of the series, it ranks probably in the top three.

[ZariusTwo]

"Shredderville", death is all well and good, but "SAINW" was'nt anywhere as un-PC and "real" as what Shredderville represented, it portrayed a much more unsoicable climate. Racism, Male chunvenism, the inability to run a country, and the inability to control dangerous weapons (Krang's Techndorome on the verge of destruction, dooming everyone)

"SAINW" is a classic, but Spit's right for once, people's judgments are clouded over it and don't look at it objectivly, it really had about two things going for it, and it was more about Turtles you'd only see once taking a final stand feeling redeemed than the last Turtle in the world anyone would think of learning anything from it. If RAPH had'nt been wasted on the Planet Racers mess, "SAINW" would have been given a much stronger edge and a meaning. There's also been episodes ten times better than it since such "Scion of the Shredder" and "Prodigal Son", because at least some format-defying events actually happen in the series universe.

The events of "Shredderville" were an echo of what would happen if Krang and Shredder ever won, setting a perfect teaser heading into the best finale the show ever had where the possiblity comes it's closest to existing.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

"Shredderville", death is all well and good, but "SAINW" was'nt anywhere as un-PC and "real" as what Shredderville represented, it portrayed a much more unsoicable climate. Racism, Male chunvenism, the inability to run a country, and the inability to control dangerous weapons (Krang's Techndorome on the verge of destruction, dooming everyone)

"SAINW" is a classic, but Spit's right for once, people's judgments are clouded over it and don't look at it objectivly, it really had about two things going for it, and it was more about Turtles you'd only see once taking a final stand feeling redeemed than the last Turtle in the world anyone would think of learning anything from it. If RAPH had'nt been wasted on the Planet Racers mess, "SAINW" would have been given a much stronger edge and a meaning. There's also been episodes ten times better than it since such "Scion of the Shredder" and "Prodigal Son", because at least some format-defying events actually happen in the series universe.

The events of "Shredderville" were an echo of what would happen if Krang and Shredder ever won, setting a perfect teaser heading into the best finale the show ever had where the possiblity comes it's closest to existing.

Actually both are realstic in their own way, but "SAINW" was way more scarey. I would always choose to be ruled over by an idiot then a psychopath. Its like comparing Czar Nicholas II to Stalin, Nicholas was an idiot who had no right to rule and did his country many diservices through his foolish leadership, but he is still a saint compared Stalin, who slaugthered millions of people for the most illogical reasons.

In shredderville, the technodrome likely only blew up NYC and the surrounding areas and Shredder's regime ended after that. In "SAINW" Shredder seemed to killing and enslaving people across the globe, likely would have contiued doing so, if Doony hadn't killed him. I think "SAINW" proves that 2k3 Shredder is pure evil and if he were allowed to conquer the Earth, that is the kind of regime he would put in place. I say, give me an idiot,even a racist idiot, over a blood thirsty psychopath any day. I would rather live in a world that is un PC and very unpleasant, then a world that is a total nightmare.

[Jon]

I only barely remember Shredderville (how can any of you people remember ALL of these OS toon episodes? Unless this one was recently released on DVD...), but from what I remember, Same As It Never Was definately has it beat as an episode. While definately not the darkest episode of the series, it ranks probably in the top three.


Yes, it's out on DVD. Seasons 1-4 of Classic TMNT are, infact. :)

[Jo Dawn]

I probably haven't seen Shredderville since about, oh, the 90's... But my first instinct is to go for SAINW. If I can bring myself to watch Shredderville, maybe I'd change my mind...

But I highly doubt that.

[Ninjinister]

Yes, it's out on DVD. Seasons 1-4 of Classic TMNT are, infact. :)

Thank you for the information. I didn't even recall what season it was.

[Jon]

Thank you for the information. I didn't even recall what season it was.


Ah, okay. "Shredderville" is in Season 3.

[Ava Collier]

I just watched SAINW a few days ago for the first, and second time.
The part of me that watched through the first time, sobbing hysterically, was really glad they got it over with.

The part of me that watched it the second time, didn't cry one bit. That part thought the story had a lot of unexplored potential. They could have used that plot in essence for an ongoing story, and had that many more episodes.
I won't lie, it hurt to see my boys like that, but the plot was good, and it deserved something more. It was definately rushed through, and while I haven't watched the second half of Real World, it didn't seem like it deserved to be a two-parter. So why was this continued, and SAINW crammed into one episode? Will I find out when I watch part 2 of Leo's episode?

I'm still rather new to the 2k3 series, and I'm trying desperately to catch up. Did the others get their own episodes along these same lines? It seems like they would.

[Revan]

Yes each turtle was punished by ultimate draco in a different nightmare. I thought they were all good episodes but SAINW is my fav.

[Ava Collier]

Thank ya dear. Happen to...there's pizza on my keyboard, hang on...

Ahem. Happen to know what the episodes are called please? ^_^

[Revan]

Leo's nightmare - The Real world pt 1 and 2
don's nightmare - SAINW
Raph's nigtmare - Across the universe
Mike's nightmare - Reality Check

[Ava Collier]

Thank you VERY much *snuzz* :evilgrin:

[Spitfire]

Spit,
Do you think the whole SAINW ep was rushed or just the end sequence?
The deaths helped the rushed feeling but Don had no time to react. He gets there "Mikey has no arm OMFG oh well whatever" then "Splinter's dead, tear drop, lets go fight Shredder!" Like it hardly effects him. Then "Casey is dead" whatever. I mean it was just like Don was this emotionless shell. All his brothers die and he doesn't even notice Leo and Raph are dead. Watching your family die, your father is dead, and your friend too would be enough to give someone a mental breakdown and Don seems to get over it in 4 seconds.

What exactly is the rat king?
A bad ass villain. He feeds people to rats and he kicks the **** out of all four turtles and Casey. Plus he brings out the anger in Leo and we see some demons. In the end he's not even defeated and we see Leo pretty much "kill" him to the turtles knowledge.

What exactly is Bishop?
One of the turtles biggest threats. He could expose the TMNT at anytime and that instills fear in them. Plus he uses their DNA to make monsters and even the Slayer who becomes the Rat King. He gets impaled on a hook and just keeps going. The man cannot die and he is purely evil.

[Ava Collier]

Ahh so THAT's what happens. I watched I, Monster the same night I got ahold of SAINW. I nearly fell out of my chair when Raph called Leo "Mr. Sunshine".
This new, and improved Rat King is much more of a threat than the OT version...who was just some crazy Willard living in the sewer, and doing random things. =/
He's wicked awesome. I wonder if I can convince Sunshine to adapt aspects of this version to our RP-fic, since The Rat King has become a much more major villain in our story. Umm...and to stay on topic, The Rat King, and Bishop weren't even mentioned in SAINW if I remember correctly. I wonder what became of them?

[Sunshine]

I guess I'd pick Shredderville too. For pretty much all the reasons already mentioned by other people. *coughCoola Yagamicough* ^_^'

[Ava Collier]

I guess I'd pick Shredderville too. For pretty much all the reasons already mentioned by other people. *coughCoola Yagamicough* ^_^'

I'd live in Shredderville and have April and Irma as my harem. :)


Orly Sunshine? :evilgrin:

[Spitfire]

Ahh so THAT's what happens. I watched I, Monster the same night I got ahold of SAINW. I nearly fell out of my chair when Raph called Leo "Mr. Sunshine".
This new, and improved Rat King is much more of a threat than the OT version...who was just some crazy Willard living in the sewer, and doing random things. =/
He's wicked awesome. I wonder if I can convince Sunshine to adapt aspects of this version to our RP-fic, since The Rat King has become a much more major villain in our story. Umm...and to stay on topic, The Rat King, and Bishop weren't even mentioned in SAINW if I remember correctly. I wonder what became of them?

Well it's possible they didn't exist in that universe, I'm pretty sure it was an alternate reality just set in the future.

[Revan]

What exactly is the rat king?

A bad ass villain. He feeds people to rats and he kicks the **** out of all four turtles and Casey. Plus he brings out the anger in Leo and we see some demons. In the end he's not even defeated and we see Leo pretty much "kill" him to the turtles knowledge.

What exactly is Bishop?

One of the turtles biggest threats. He could expose the TMNT at anytime and that instills fear in them. Plus he uses their DNA to make monsters and even the Slayer who becomes the Rat King. He gets impaled on a hook and just keeps going. The man cannot die and he is purely evil.

I guess I was wondering more along the lines of origin. I know who rat king and bishop are, but for some reason I had the idea they were clones of each other. When the rat king escaped, didn't he look exactly like bishop? If you have no idea what I'm talking about maybe its because I don't :ohwell:

[Jon]

I guess I was wondering more along the lines of origin. I know who rat king and bishop are, but for some reason I had the idea they were clones of each other. When the rat king escaped, didn't he look exactly like bishop? If you have no idea what I'm talking about maybe its because I don't :ohwell:


You would be right. 2K3's Rat King is originally 'The Slayer' from the ep. "Bishop's Gambit", and is an augmented clone of Bishop himself.

As for Bishop, we find out later in Season 4 he's been around for ages. Using cloning technology to gain a psuedo-immortality. And heading an Earth Defense group, against alien invasion (due to an experience with aliens those many years ago).

[Ra]

Hm, this is a tough one. I loved Same As It Never Was with all my heart...well, up until the final fight scene, anyway. THAT'S when things got rushed. It was definitely a two parter episode crammed into one...that kind of had me upset there...

Shredderville would be my number one place to live as a citizen. Why? So then I don't really have the high risk of being thrown into an 18 hour shift concentration camp, like in SAINW. I just loved that little violent throw back, honestly. It just reminded me of World War II...

Basically, here are my thoughts summed up

Shredderville
- Very nice and campy compared to SAINW, but it's still being ruled by the Shredder.
- Technodrome about to blow up? YEAH! Well, not "yeah", but it's still pretty cool.
- Shredder is a bit laid back and a bit...I don't know...arrogent here? Major ego boost here.
- Plot is consistant and even paced, and it feels complete once you finish watching the episode

Same As It Never Was
- So...much...DARKER!! Pollution clouding the sky, images of the Shredder glaring at everyone around the city, aliens patrolling the streets... very creepy. I like it! :evilgrin:
- Nothing is blowing up...well, until the end...kind of... *coughs*
- Shredder...he seems to be a bit more cocky, since you can see his fleshy Utrom interior inside the Shredder suit this time. I guess that's saying he is more confident and doesn't have to hide his vulnerability to the world, since now he is something of a god. It's good to note his slight change in character *nods*
- The plot, like I said, is rushed as soon as the final fight scene begins. It's like an entire episode of fighting condenced into five minutes. It definately stops that even pacing, which was going pretty well up until this point.

Basically, if SAINW was in two parts, it would have done so much better. In terms of darkness and character, I'd say it kicks Shredderville up the bum. However, in terms of plot and pacing, Shredderville wins this round. Pretty much the same as what everyone has said so far... *shrugs*

[Sunshine]

Actually Ava... I meant the idiot thing. ~_~'