Comments and Discussions on the 2003 Series from the Beginning

[Courk]

I can't change the fact that I'm 4 years behind the rest of you, but I'm hoping there are others trying to catch up (despite the random schedule) who are willing to discuss events as they arise. Alternatively, I'm hoping some of the regulars are willing to discuss early events again, without jumping too far ahead.

Since this topic covers older material, I was just going to keep several discussions in one thread, unless one of the topics needs its own thread. I don't expect it to get too crowded in here...

Anyway, first comment:

In "Shredder Strikes, Part 1," when Leo is lamenting about being fooled, Donnie's line "You got played, bro!" cracked me up. It sounded so awkward coming form him -- which it should. The way Donnie was portrayed in episodes 1, 3, and 4 made him seem like the last person who would say something like that. Awesome job by the voice actor.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

Hey Courk, discuss is what we do :) I like helping fellow fans get up to speed if I can. It's fun :) I get to test my own TMNT knowledge while at it.
Be sure to spend some time flipping through all the threads, you be surprised at how much is actually still being discussed even from those early eppys

Your early 2K3 seires Don comment...I think they have to try to keep dialogue even but I thought it was kinda a funny line by Donny. He is the "smart" one...no one is going to pull the wool over his eyes :lol:

[Warhorse]

Hey. I have a question. Do you people like the fact that

Shredder is a Utrom instead of a human being? This plot gave me the sinking feeling of the show jumping the shark or something. I just thought Shredder was more terrifying being a human being, and not some Krang imposter.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

oh man I didn't know what to think of that at first, I was like woah!!!!

I didn't care for it at first but it was funny because thinking of a Shredder Krang combination is just amusing...lol
Then I thought okay this has to be going somewhere pretty crazy cause what could possibly be the reason for it, and well there were a lot of reasons for it. I did love how he turned out to have been a real person at one time. The whole Ninja Tribunal arch bringing him back made it clear that they had to do the whole utrom thing to have the Demon Shredder

[Courk]

I'm not at that point yet, but I know it's coming (if they show that episode is another issue). I'm not dreading it. I'm open to the possibility, and it's not going to be sprung on me, so I won't have bad surprise feelings about it. My feelings will probably depend on how exactly they go about showing it and how they treat it. Don't bother explaining it to me, I can't really describe what I'm thinking, but I can see ways it would be handled nicely, and also ways for it to fall apart.

Reading the comics on the website is probably helping me accept that. Aliens have been present in TMNT since way back, so it doesn't seem like such a big deal to me that their arch nemesis would be an alien, too.

One thing I'm not looking forward to is what apparently happens in the "Lost Season." The turtles turn into dragons? I know people have somehow been able to see it, but I'm hoping for a last-second change of heart when it's aired in its own season (if it's aired).

[Tinuvielsdreams]

Yes it's all very hard to explain without seeing it anyway. The same with Ninja tribunal you just have to watch them, I think alot of people got the Australia dvd release including myself. You have to have a region compatible dvd player though. I feel like they will release them here eventually. Why they haven't yet I just don't know.

It's great you are doing your research and catching up. Don't you love the website?
Dan is the nicest guy ever too

[Revan]

I enjoyed watching Casey and April relationship go through the dating levels. haha. First April doesn't care much for him but Casey seem to like her from the start. As you watch the episodes, their relationship gain more and more momentum. happy times.

[Warhorse]

You know what was a good episode, or a series of episoded, is the search for Splinter.

And when Mikey and Don stumble onto the utrons undressing themselves out of the human shells, and Mikey is getting ready to scream. Kind of reminds me when I saw Aliens in the theater. I was grossed out back then, and this episode sparked those feeling in me again.

[ajistheman]

so what episodes are you watching now? I don't want to talk about something you haven't seen yet, as I assume you are watching them in order. Tell us where you are at, and we can talk about that episode and the events leading up to it.

[Courk]

I would love to be watching them in order. Alas, I'm watching them on 4kids (it's shown on Sundays here). I'm 99.99% certain I'll get the season 1 part 1 DVD when it comes out. Mainly because Shredder Strikes was so good, I want to see how it ends. (I don't even know if it's on part 1, but I'd rather not buy part of a set.)

I'll come up with a list of what I've seen and what I want to see in a little bit.

[Courk]

I've seen:
Things Change
Attack of the Mousers
Meet Casey Jones
The Shredder Strikes, Part 1
The Unconvincing Turtle Titan

Then 4Kids skips the rest of Season 1, and this upcoming weekend will be one of the Search for Splinter episodes. I'd assume part 1, but even if it is, I don't hold out much hope to see part 2.

I *really* want to see:
The Shredder Strikes, Part 2

Whatever episode the TMNT faced Hun in the first time (it's mentioned in Shredder Strikes part 1, I assume it was an on-screen fight)

I don't know what Notes from the Underground is about, but a three-parter sounds interesting.

Shredder Strikes Back through Tales of Leo.

Return to NY (again, three-parter -> interesting)

I keep seeing people mention City at War, so I want to see those. (Plus it has three parts!)

Big Brawl - if 3 parters are interesting, then I gotta see a four-parter. Plus, with a name like Big Brawl, I expect a big brawl. A big ninja brawl. Please say I'm right. :-)

I also keep seeing Same as it Never Was being mentioned -- it sounds sad, I want to see it.

And obviously filling in all the blanks would be cool.

[ajistheman]

first meeting with hun is darkness on the edge of town if my memory is holding up.
you listed some good episodes that you want to see. I guess you've heard everyone on this board talk those up
you even listed 2/3 of my favorite episodes, which i guess is actually both of my top 2
what did you think of shredder strikes part one? what was your favorite parts?

[Revan]

I *really* want to see:
The Shredder Strikes, Part 2
An instant classic

I don't know what Notes from the Underground is about, but a three-parter sounds interesting.
Don't read the spoiler if you don't want to know about Notes
The boys voyage deep underground NY to a lost city with monsters living in it. The turtles must help the monsters solve their mutation problem so they can leave the lost city.

Shredder Strikes Back through Tales of Leo.
Shredder strikes back, another classic. good fight sequences and we see casey show a lot of mushyness towards april.
Tales of Leo is awesome too. Most of it is a flashback when the turtles were little toddlers
We see Raph cry for the first time

I also keep seeing Same as it Never Was being mentioned -- it sounds sad, I want to see it.
Whoa. I love this ep! Fans are divided on this ep. It will probably move you.

[Courk]

aj: Which of your favorites did I miss?

Neutrino: I know that about Tales of Leo. The thought of it makes me go "aww" nonetheless. I'm a sucker for things like that. Plus Turtle Toddlers -- I bet that's adorable.

SAINW sounds a lot like a Gargoyles episode. I'm not sure of the title, but I'm sure if you've seen it you know which one I mean. I kinda liked that episode, so I don't see why I wouldn't like SAINW.

[Masked Ninja]

SAINW sounds a lot like a Gargoyles episode. I'm not sure of the title, but I'm sure if you've seen it you know which one I mean. I kinda liked that episode, so I don't see why I wouldn't like SAINW.Future Tense, you mean? It actually quite an interesting comparison, especially since Gargoyles in general has characters that can be compared to TMNT pretty easily. (especially if you just take the Trio by themselves... Brooklyn would be kind of a Leo/Raph, while Broadway is Mikey-ish and Lexington is a lot like Donatello) I love both Future Tense and SAINW, and it's interesting to me to see how similar the two episodes are, but also the ways in which they differ.

I know I loved the "Shredder Strikes" and "Shredder Strikes Back" arcs... classics of the series, no doubt. And I still smile when I think of Splinter trying to work the remote of the Battle Shell in "Shredder Strikes" (part 2, I think)

Yeah, can't wait for the first half of season 1 to come out, can't you tell? :twink:

[Revan]

And I still smile when I think of Splinter trying to work the remote of the Battle Shell

I would feel bad for poor splinter trying to figure out don's tech but they put that in there for comedic purposes so it's good to laugh at him. :lol:

I also love when Splinter can't figure out the shell cell.
"Hello. *pushes buttons* How do you answer this thing?!"

"Master Splinter, you already answered it.":lol: :lol:

[ajistheman]

My three favorite episodes in order are:
1. Same As It Never Was
2. Return to NY (Part 3)
3. Rogue in the House (Part 2)
there is a TON of action in those ones:D

[Revan]

My three favorite episodes in order are:
1. Same As It Never Was
2. Return to NY (Part 3)
3. Rogue in the House (Part 2)
there is a TON of action in those ones:D

Those are some good eps. jw how many eps you have seen so far.

[ajistheman]

was the question to me or the OP?
if it is me, I've seen every episode of the new cartoon and old cartoon
and the first five episodes on next mutation

[Revan]

was the question to me or the OP?
if it is me, I've seen every episode of the new cartoon and old cartoon
and the first five episodes on next mutation

Yeah it was to you. I was just wondering if you had seen all the eps based on your favs.

[ajistheman]

ah not to go off topic (I will go back on topic at the end of the post), but I figured I'd say this...I've actually been surfing this forum since summer 2003, I just never signed up. I have about 10 message boards I visit, and I just never post (or sign up) a lot of times. I only signed up because someone was selling the turtles blimp moc for $30, and I collect moc tmnt toys (with my loose ones from childhood), so I've been watching this show since the day after my 18th birthday coincidentally (feb 8th 2003)
also, these are my top 10 episodes, so if you want some good ones to watch Courk I'd suggest these:D
1. Same As It Never Was
2. Return to New York - Part 3
3. Rogue in House - Part 2
4. Exodus - Part 2
5. Shredder Strikes Back - Part 2
6. Shredder Strikes - Part 2
7. Good Genes - Part 2
8. Secret Orgins - Part 3
9. I, Monster
10t Space Invaders Part 1
10t The Big House
Ok, I was cheesy and didn't want to knock either of the last two off my list, but everyone else feel free to tell Courk what other ones that he might like in case he isn't watching them in order
PS if you can't tell I like the conclusions to the big story arcs:P

[Revan]

I have trouble picking out a specific top ten but I like certain adventure archs.

exodus
Battlenexus
Anything with Renet
April's artifact
time traveling
the outbreak eps
don's mutation

not really specific eps but broad "archs"

[ajistheman]

i'm like raph, I hate bugs. I still like April's artifacts but I wouldn't put that as one of MY favorites. I really do like the Gamera Don arc, and I usually like the endings of the arcs the most, so it is easy for me to pick my favorite episodes out of them, since my favorite arcs/episodes are pretty much in the same order (with episodes have some additional solo episodes)
you don't have many shredder episodes in there, and you can tell those are by far my favorites usually:)

[bullet]

you also seem to enjoy the more tragic episodes o O;;

[Warhorse]

Hey, what episodes are the really funny ones. Because I honestly dont care for the traumatic, life threatening ones. I watch the Turtles mostly because they are funny, not how much they fight or how horrible their foes are!

[ajistheman]

i do like the action, I like to see the turtles come "from behind" in the fight and win it, but IMO the funniest episodes are in no order of funnyness
Junklantis (I think most people here will DISagree with me, but I think its funny)
The Golden Puck
Touch and Go
I like the comedy in a lot of episodes, but imo these are good mostly for the humor
whereas there are a lot of episodes that are a mix of both

[Revan]

Comedy.. ha, any ep where mikey screams like a girl is an instant hit with me. When I first heard that, I literally giggled for days. seriously.

[ajistheman]

neutrino, did you like mikey's scaredy-chicken act in the notes from the underground arc?

[Revan]

neutrino, did you like mikey's scaredy-chicken act in the notes from the underground arc?

I believe so. It's been a long long long time since I've watched the notes. I think I've only seen those eps one time each but I crack up at his girlyness. I can't help it.

[bullet]

that's what's cool about mike. even in somewhat grim circumstances he'll get some laughs outta me. the notes from underground one was particularly funny, you know when raph calls mike weird.

[Masked Ninja]

Hey, what episodes are the really funny ones. Because I honestly dont care for the traumatic, life threatening ones. I watch the Turtles mostly because they are funny, not how much they fight or how horrible their foes are!There's a really good series that started in 1987... ;)

Though there was probably more good humor in the earlier seasons of the new 'toon, and then it gradually got darker. Which I liked, because the new 'toon is good at being a darkish action 'toon, and the old 'toon is stronger in humor. And I appreciated the TMNT not being all "nyuck nyuck" on the screen for once.

So I don't know that there are full-on "funny episodes" for the new 'toon, but there are certainly occasional hilarious parts within episodes.

[ajistheman]

So I don't know that there are full-on "funny episodes" for the new 'toon, but there are certainly occasional hilarious parts within episodes.

he is speaking the truth, it is a funny show, but not full-on episodes

[Courk]

tell Courk what other ones that he might like in case he isn't watching them in order

1. Yes, do tell me your favorites so I can look forward to them. :-)
2. I'll do my best to watch them in order. I'll probably have to leave off on 4Kids
soon, since it seems they'll be on season 2 shortly, and I don't want to be that far off on order. :ohwell:
3. That should be "tell Courk what other ones that she might like"

[ninjitsu_magic_47]

I like the ones with Renet in them, I don't really know why. But I find her ditzyness really funny.

And the fact that she was a blue eyed blond I found hilarous.

[ajistheman]

sorry Courk. so what episodes were your favorite so far, girl?
and about renet, yeah she is the only ditzy girl I can remember in this series

[Revan]

sorry Courk. so what episodes were your favorite so far, girl?
and about renet, yeah she is the only ditzy girl I can remember in this series

ah Renet, typical

In the prehistoric eps when the boys get stuck in the cretatious, they drew renet very attractive. She looked completely different in her skimpy dino outfit. oooo Renet, my dream girl

[Courk]

My favorite episode so far is probably The Shredder Strikes. It had good action and a good story.

I thought Things Change was pretty good for a first episode. It showed what further episodes were going to be like, so you could look at that and make a decision on whether it seemed you would like the series as a whole. I don't think starting a series with the origin story is always the best idea, since the rest of the series doesn't typically revolve around the origin. Things Change didn't mention anything related to origins as far as I can remember, it just showed the turtles relationship with each other and Splinter, as well as some ninja fighting action.

[Ra]

Ah, man, this is bringing back some good memories... *sighs happily*

I just love the 2k3 series as a whole and I don't really have a favorite episode. I think one of my favorite episodes have to be...

Season 1
"Shredder Strikes Back" pt 1 &2
"Tales of Leo"
"The King"
"Lone Raph and Cub"

Season 2
"The Ultimate Ninja"
"What a Croc!"
"Big Brawl" pts 1, 2, 3 & 4.

Season 3
"The Christmas Aliens"
"Hunted"
"H.A.T.E."
"Nobody's Fool"
"The Darkness Within"
"Exodus" pts 1 & 2

Season 4 (My favorite season so far, I guess)
"Dragon's Brew"
"Sons of the Silent Age"
"Dragons Rising"
"Still Nobody"
"Samurai Tourist"
"The Ancient One"
"Insane in the Membrane"
"Good Genes" pt 1 & 2.

And I'll just leave it at that. The only episode I desperately want to see is "I, Monster". It's the ONLY episode that I haven't watched, and I keep on missing it whenever it is being aired. Hopefully one day I'll be able to watch it.

[Warhorse]

Comedy.. ha, any ep where mikey screams like a girl is an instant hit with me. When I first heard that, I literally giggled for days. seriously.

I actually LMAO when Mikey and Don were posing as an old couple, and a gang or mob came in and started to get rough with Don, and then Mikey says something like "No one man handles my husband!"

Then later on, Donny said something like he was just glad Mikey stopped referring him to as his husband! LOL!

[ajistheman]

in that episode did you notice the couple was a black women and white guy? that was the first time I've noticed an interracial couple not only in a cartoon, but any tv show
I thought that was REALLY IMPRESSIVE
(please note that if I missed some obvious ones, I don't watch a lot of tv outside of tmnt and basketball)

[Courk]

Weren't Elisa's parent different races on Gargoyles?

[Jon]

Weren't Elisa's parent different races on Gargoyles?


Yeah. As recall -- I believe Mrs. Maza was of African heritage, and Mr. Maza was of Native American.

Edit: *Add-On* Another such thing I recall is from the series Braceface. With Maria Wong's parents; one from Italian decent, and the other from Chinese (I haven't read/heard of which parent was from which culture, though). -In the above Gargoyles stuff, they had episodes pertaining to each. No such defining elements were in Braceface, far as I had seen of the series.

[Revan]

My favorite episode so far is probably The Shredder Strikes. It had good action and a good story.

I thought Things Change was pretty good for a first episode. It showed what further episodes were going to be like, so you could look at that and make a decision on whether it seemed you would like the series as a whole. I don't think starting a series with the origin story is always the best idea, since the rest of the series doesn't typically revolve around the origin. Things Change didn't mention anything related to origins as far as I can remember, it just showed the turtles relationship with each other and Splinter, as well as some ninja fighting action.

The definately saved the whole origin story for later in the series. Which was a really cool idea. They knew that most people had already heard the origin story many times so they basically used things change to introduce characters and give us a feel for what we were going to be seeing in the new series.

When we finally did get to see the actual secret origins eps, I was quite satisfied with the 2k3 version. The writers really think far ahead and do a great job setting up future eps.

Like when we see Leatherhead walking around TCRI

[Courk]

The Search for Splinter, Part 1 has me a bit lost. It's not the show's fault, though, it's that I've missed so many episodes. I liked it, but I'm sure I'd like it more if it made more sense to me. When does Season 1, part 2 come out?

They referenced being in Shredder's place before and facing some sort of challenge. What episode is that in? It sounds pretty interesting. Is it actual booby trap stuff, or just a lot of foot soldiers?

[TheShowstoppa]

Let's face it - If you're not watching the shows in continuity order, it's going to be confusing trying to catch up with the story lines. The first DVD I ever bought was "The Shredder Strikes" and I had no clue what Leo was talking about in half of it. Finally, I bought the rest of the disks to catch myself up and I was hooked. I'm telling you, the first and the 4th seasons have been the best. The first season was setting up thing we already knew from the comics. In season 2 - It kinda went way out there by introducing all new storylines that weren't seen before. Seasons 3 and 4 kept with that same feeling, but it dealt with a lot of things we wanted (I, Monster for example).

Season 1 part 2 probably won't be out for quite some time now. It took until the end of this month just to get a damn set for the first season anyway... And the last disk of FF doesn't come out until September (which by then the second season of FF will have started). If I were you and you had a region free DVD player, or a region 1, I would go ahead and try and find the disks cheap. They're not hard to find anymore. I'd sell you mine... but I'm too partial to them all!

[Spitfire]

Reading the Mirage comics has made watching any episodes based off them suck to me.

Like the two part Dino episode. Should have been one part. Golden Puck was way better in the comics. HATE was way better in the comics, Cousin Sid, Rat King even*But I'Monster episode still holds up decently*, The Hunter LH story, Halloween story, Leo against the Foot, the whole farm portion of the story, People's Choice.

Alright you get the point.

[Courk]

Let's face it - If you're not watching the shows in continuity order, it's going to be confusing trying to catch up with the story lines.

It's not that I want to skip episodes. Currently, my only source for this show is 4Kids. I was going to watch it for as long as I could. I'll probably watch next week's, but after that I probably won't be able to make much sense of anything. I'll be getting the DVD, though.

[Jon]

It's not that I want to skip episodes. Currently, my only source for this show is 4Kids. I was going to watch it for as long as I could. I'll probably watch next week's, but after that I probably won't be able to make much sense of anything. I'll be getting the DVD, though.


Other than a couple minor things (a few intro pieces missing, and episode order out-of-whack) the previous DVDs are good as well.

I have all of those already-out DVDs, and been fine watching them (just have to have an ep. list to know the order to view them in).

[ajistheman]

they go to shredder's place in return to new york (part 1-3, of course). yes there are tons of booby traps and enemies (that's why part 3 is my 2nd favorite episode), what you might want to know
during the turtles fight with shredder, splinter gets thrown off the top of shredder's tower, and lands on some other building. he rests there until the turtles get done battling shredder, but when they go back to get splinter he is GONE . . . dun dun dun. . . cliffhanger for you:)

[Courk]

Some intros are missing on the tiny volume sets? You mean the beginning narration voice overs? I love those parts, especially Leo's.

[Jon]

Some intros are missing on the tiny volume sets? You mean the beginning narration voice overs? I love those parts, especially Leo's.


Yeah, the bits before the opening theme. The single-disc releases have a few of those cut from episodes early-on in the series.

[ajistheman]

the only ones that were cut were the ones that were from part 2 or 3 of a story arch, which isn't as bad as the solo episodes
for example i think notes from the underground 2 and 3 don't have it, but in those two, the beginning intro was just a turtle talking about what happened in part 1 (and part 2 if you were watching episode 3)
obviously, this sucks, but it isn't as bad as the solo episodes missing them

[Courk]

Search for Splinter Part 2 had a nice bit of detail in it. At one point Leo and Raph are in a situation where they have to fight what I'm guessing are Utroms, and Raph's the one who enters the fight first. Leo's right behind him, but I thought it was a nice touch that Raph was just a little more eager to fight.

[ajistheman]

yup, they are utroms. Also, you will notice Raph is a bit more eager to fight, and a bit more aggressive, quite often:P

[Scandia]

I have only watched the first episode of the first season, as well as one episode from the lost season.

I like the faithfulness to the comics. I don't like the character designs. I grew up on the OT so I miss the humor. I don't like Raphael's voice. I like Leonardo's voice. Mikey and Don are fine. I prefer Splinter's OT voice but this one is fine. Haven't seen April or Casey yet- but I love OT April. I have mixed feelings about the opening song- not as catchy as the OT one. I do NOT care for Shredder being originally an Utrom.

I like the plotlines overall and want to watch more of it.

[Courk]

I can't compare to the original toon voices, but I don't have any issues with the new toon voices. I *love* Leo's voice over intros, I've yet to pinpoint exactly why. Someone somewhere said that Raph's voice seems too deep for a teenager, which I guess is true, but it doesn't bother me.

I forgot to mention my favorite-detail-of-the-episode for Search for Splinter Part 1!

I liked Mikey's handstand on the tightrope. I love that skill being shown.

[triplexxx]

Yeah, Raphael has the deepest voice of all the turtles in the new toon, and I do think it's kinda deep for a teenager. Just as in the old toon, Michaelangelo had the deepest voice, and it also sounded too old for a teenager, like in that episode "The Gang's All Here" when he turned human, his voice was like that of a thirty- or forty-year-old. But I don't mind deep voices for the turtles either.

[Revan]

yup, they are utroms. Also, you will notice Raph is a bit more eager to fight, and a bit more aggressive, quite often:P

Omg I absolutely love that about raph. The best example I can think of is from the ninja tribunal story arch.

The turtles are surprised by these immortal wooden warrior things and get completely annihilated. There was no possible way for the turtles to win. (Can't stress the impossiblity enough) Anyway the fight ends as the wooden dudes abduct the boys and take em away. Later the wooden dudes surround the turtles again and Raph is the first to draw his weapons to fight. Then comes his BA line, "I've been dying for a rematch!"
:) Raph is almost completely without fear. He still wants to fight even though they are indestructable immortals! I don't know why, but that single "rematch" line grabbed me and sucked me deeper into my raph infatuation hole.

As for the deepness in Raph and Mike's voice, I have no problem with it. I coach a 13 year old baseball team and many of those kids have quite deep voices so it's not unheard of.

I especially love Mike's voice in SAINW. Oooo, chills! I wish he would sound like that more often. It sounded like a completely different VA.

[Time Mistress]

I've seen:
Things Change
Attack of the Mousers
Meet Casey Jones
The Shredder Strikes, Part 1
The Unconvincing Turtle Titan

Then 4Kids skips the rest of Season 1, and this upcoming weekend will be one of the Search for Splinter episodes. I'd assume part 1, but even if it is, I don't hold out much hope to see part 2.

I *really* want to see:
The Shredder Strikes, Part 2

Whatever episode the TMNT faced Hun in the first time (it's mentioned in Shredder Strikes part 1, I assume it was an on-screen fight)

I don't know what Notes from the Underground is about, but a three-parter sounds interesting.

Shredder Strikes Back through Tales of Leo.

Return to NY (again, three-parter -> interesting)

I keep seeing people mention City at War, so I want to see those. (Plus it has three parts!)

Big Brawl - if 3 parters are interesting, then I gotta see a four-parter. Plus, with a name like Big Brawl, I expect a big brawl. A big ninja brawl. Please say I'm right. :-)

I also keep seeing Same as it Never Was being mentioned -- it sounds sad, I want to see it.

And obviously filling in all the blanks would be cool.

Glad you are enjoying the show Courk. To answer some of your questions.

Shredder Strikes Pt. 2 is the classic rooftop confrotation with Shredder.

The fight with Hun might have also been from the cage match ep. I think Leo and Raph vs. Hun I think.

Notes from the Underground is one of the arcs that involves other mutants in this series, lots of Mikey stuff in that 3-parter.

Shredder Strikes Back/Tales of Leo are the eps that got me hooked on 2k3. If you've seen the first movie you kinda know the plot for these but it's some of the truest Mirage adaptation in the whole show.

Return to NY is just amazing! My personal favorite arc of the whole show. The traps and such refered to in Search for Splinter happened in this trilogy.

City at War, definately a highlight of season 2 - Pt 1 is good but the fight scene uses some recycled footage, pt 2 is awesome and intense between Leo and Raph, pt. 3 feels like it should have been a little longer, but it wraps up the trilogy well and sets up things nicely for the 2-part Rogue in the House.

The Big Brawl - yep, definately a big ninja brawl and another highlight of season 2 and if it hasn't already been spoiled for you, which Turtle do you think will win the brawl?

Same As It Never Was is definately an intense alternate universe ep, if you like dramatic eps it's among the best of season 3.

For humor Warhorse, one of my favorite bits would have to be the fight from Turltes in Space pt.3. And who can for get the Teenage Mutant Ninja Ratoids, possibly the best single visual gag of the entire show.

As for Elisa Maza, I alway thought she was African/Hispanic since her name sounded more Latino instead of Native American, but I could be wrong.

[Courk]

Shredder Strikes Back/Tales of Leo are the eps that got me hooked on 2k3. If you've seen the first movie you kinda know the plot for these but it's some of the truest Mirage adaptation in the whole show.

Yeah, I've seen the first movie (more like I know it like the back of my hand). It's only been recently that I found out that the rooftop ambush happened to Leo in the comics, and then that it was in the new toon. Just changing that fact has to change the story significantly. When it's Raph, they lose a fighter. When it's Leo, they lose a leader.

I actually spoiled Big Brawl for myself right before reading your post. At least I think so. From what I gathered, that's the Battle Nexus Tournament? I know who wins that. Don't tell me if I'm right, though. I'll keep myself in some sort of suspense as long as possible

[triplexxx]

Yeah, I've seen the first movie (more like I know it like the back of my hand). It's only been recently that I found out that the rooftop ambush happened to Leo in the comics, and then that it was in the new toon. Just changing that fact has to change the story significantly. When it's Raph, they lose a fighter. When it's Leo, they lose a leader.
Well just so you know it's just as much a loss to lose Raphael as it is to lose Leonardo; it's just as much a loss to lose ANY of them,watch the Same As It Never Was episode and see what happens without Donatello around.

[Courk]

I agree -- I think it'd be an entirely new story if Donnie or Mikey were on the roof, too. I was looking at short-term consequences revolving around the fight itself. With Raph out of commission long-term, they would lose whatever he is to them -- brother, friend, the passionate one, etc. However, within the scope of the fight (from being thrown into the window until they escape the house), what they've lost is a fighter. They haven't had time for the other losses to sink in yet.

With Leo, the long-term losses would be brother, friend, leader, etc. It just so happens that the loss of the leader can be felt immediately in the short-term.

They're all equally important in the long-term, but since Leo's the leader, I think his short-term loss would have just a bit more effect on the others.

[triplexxx]

Well the thing is, all the turtles are very self-sufficient. In the Shredder Strikes Back arc, they're able to fend off the Foot while Leonardo is out until they can make a safe retreat; same in the new movie when Raphael is out, they fend off their enemies until they can safely retreat. When Donatello's kidnapped in Space Invaders arc, they can handle themselves getting up into space to save him. With Donatello gone for 30 years in SAINW, the others do fall apart, but they're still able to survive while the world turns to total chaos, even though they weren't able to protect Splinter and Casey. When Leonardo's not home in Scion of the Shredder, Karai brings so large an army that there's no way to win against, even if Leonardo was there with them, and it's near impossible for them to escape alive from, but they do so anyway. When Shredder knocks out Michaelangelo in Secret Origins 1, they again fend off the enemies long enough to make a safe retreat.
The thing about each of these situations is that they do show the team can at least survive with any one of them out of commission, but what they usually cannot do is actually WIN the fight, as I said they usually have to retreat. In other words, with any one of them out, they others can "survive" long-term provided they don't get involved in any "win or die" situations. But in order to actually "win" requires all four of their efforts.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

Yeah, I've seen the first movie (more like I know it like the back of my hand). It's only been recently that I found out that the rooftop ambush happened to Leo in the comics, and then that it was in the new toon. Just changing that fact has to change the story significantly. When it's Raph, they lose a fighter. When it's Leo, they lose a leader.

I actually spoiled Big Brawl for myself right before reading your post. At least I think so. From what I gathered, that's the Battle Nexus Tournament? I know who wins that. Don't tell me if I'm right, though. I'll keep myself in some sort of suspense as long as possible

I loved the big brawl eppy because

USAGI!!!! The Splinter past stories! AND Raph and Mikey's fight which afterwards when Raph is ported out he shakes that other fighter flipping about loosing to Mikey. It always makes me crack up

I always wondered myself why it was Raph on that rooftop. I guess it cause I knew it was Leo. I wondered why the switch was made for the movie.
The Shredder strikes back is a dvd I can watch over and over and over.
Course I watch them all over and over and over:P

[Courk]

Based on summaries of the earlier Mirage comics, they crammed a lot of them into a short amount of time for the movie. My guess is that it was easier to have Raph storm off and get caught up there than to take time to explain why Leo would be alone on the roof. I can't quite recall, but isn't the "This is the plan from our great leader" fight pretty much the only fight between Leo and Raph in the movie? I think they needed that just to show their dynamics, and that naturally leads to Raph being alone. To get Leo alone, Raph needs to not storm off (that seems unlikely) or Raph needs to return and then Leo needs to leave, which takes time.

[jenna]

Based on summaries of the earlier Mirage comics, they crammed a lot of them into a short amount of time for the movie. My guess is that it was easier to have Raph storm off and get caught up there than to take time to explain why Leo would be alone on the roof. I can't quite recall, but isn't the "This is the plan from our great leader" fight pretty much the only fight between Leo and Raph in the movie? I think they needed that just to show their dynamics, and that naturally leads to Raph being alone. To get Leo alone, Raph needs to not storm off (that seems unlikely) or Raph needs to return and then Leo needs to leave, which takes time.

My take on it is this:

Raphael's battle with his anger is in itself practically a sub plot to the narrative and it's one that had to be resolved (at least for the film). By breaking down Raph physically, he was able to heal emotionally so to speak. It would have been a bad plot devise to have Leo attacked in the film as he was working so hard to do the right thing, but Raph was on a downward spiral and needed to 'hit rock bottom' in order to have a cathartic recovery.

Also, if you look at Raph's individual battles, each can be a metaphore for his battle against anger - his opponents increase with each one, until he is completely outnumbered and overcome. In effect he is overwhelmed by his anger.

[Time Mistress]

Materfully put Jenna!

[Courk]

Yeah, that puts my explanation to shame.

This weekend is The Golden Puck. Is this more of a stand-alone episode, or is there a back story I should know before watching it?

[The Terror of Death]

Karai brings so large an army that there's no way to win against, even if Leonardo was there with them,

I thought the team (all four + Splinter) always manage to beat their opponets in life or death fights? Why would know be any different? Could you please explain.

[triplexxx]

Well, their five efforts combined never managed to completely defeat Ch'rell, and in Exodus, in order to defeat him meant giving up their own lives, but luckily the Utroms bailed them out at the last second. And in the Lost Season, though they ended up handling True Shredder on their own, they needed to enlist help from the acolytes, as well as fellow friends and enemies in order to get into Shredder's fortress.
But, you're probably right, maybe if Leonardo had been there and the team had been whole, they probably could've taken out the whole army.
Just to clarify, when I mentioned "win" or "die" situations, I meant situations where retreating is not an option; in this case, it was.

[Time Mistress]

Yeah, that puts my explanation to shame.

This weekend is The Golden Puck. Is this more of a stand-alone episode, or is there a back story I should know before watching it?

Nope. It's pretty stand alone. Losely based on the Umentionables, TMNT comics issue Vol. 1 #14. It first aired on my birthday so I have as sort spot for this ep. It's a good ep if you like Casey Jones.

[Revan]

Well, their five efforts combined never managed to completely defeat Ch'rell, and in Exodus, in order to defeat him meant giving up their own lives, but luckily the Utroms bailed them out at the last second. And in the Lost Season, though they ended up handling True Shredder on their own, they needed to enlist help from the acolytes, as well as fellow friends and enemies in order to get into Shredder's fortress.
But, you're probably right, maybe if Leonardo had been there and the team had been whole, they probably could've taken out the whole army.
Just to clarify, when I mentioned "win" or "die" situations, I meant situations where retreating is not an option; in this case, it was.

clever writing also helps.
Uh-oh the boys are in trouble... Let them escape

[Jester]

I've noticed something in re-watching the 1st half of season 1:
1) Mikey and Donnie's voices have changed...the actors seem to be more confident in the character. Splinter's voice also seems a little diffrent.
2) Leo's shoulder strap tends to be missing in a lot of scenes.

[The Terror of Death]

in Exodus, in order to defeat him meant giving up their own lives, but luckily the Utroms bailed them out at the last second.

I always felt they could have tried harder to defeat Ch'rell in Exodus. If they focused on defeating Karai first and then let the Shredder come to them I think they could have beat him. To me it looked like his Mega Shredder suit would have some trouble moving its legs so they could use his slow speed to an advantage. Or they could have managed to wait out the ride and then used the outside environment to their advantage. They just gave up way too easily imo.
This is simply a what if scenario. I know they had to make the fight end that way in order write the stories in season four.

[triplexxx]

I always felt they could have tried harder to defeat Ch'rell in Exodus. If they focused on defeating Karai first and then let the Shredder come to them I think they could have beat him.
And maybe they might have just done that too if they hadn't made the mistake of trusting that ungrateful little b**** in the first place. It's ambiguous, deceitful people like Karai that make you hate the fact that you have a conscience. But of course, as the story goes, they did need her alive to aid in handling future chaos.

[Sage Ninja]

I've noticed something in re-watching the 1st half of season 1:
1) Mikey and Donnie's voices have changed...the actors seem to be more confident in the character. Splinter's voice also seems a little diffrent.


yes I noticed this too. Mikey's voice in the first half of season one was lighter and higher and had a slight surfer dude tinge to it. Later on Mikey's voice lost the surfer touch and became heavier/lower pitched with more gravel to it. ANd Donatello's voice was lower I believe in season one, than gut a bit higher and younger sounding.

And maybe they might have just done that too if they hadn't made the mistake of trusting that ungrateful little b**** in the first place. It's ambiguous, deceitful people like Karai that make you hate the fact that you have a conscience. But of course, as the story goes, they did need her alive to aid in handling future chaos.

I agree. I've always hated Karai and her way of playing both sides of the table. The girl was constantly on the fence and never made a definate commitment. I feel sorry Leonardo had to even get involved with her and get his compassion for her thrown in his face!

[Revan]

^ Amen. I'm flat out sick of Karai. It's a shame too because she is such a cool character but her indecision gets so old so fast. She helps them, then she tries to kill them... over and over. grrrrr. I wish she would just pick a side. Even if she chooses "the dark side" then at least we know what she is.:x

[triplexxx]

She helps them, then she tries to kill them... over and over.
Hehe...That line reminds me of this one: "You f*** me, then snub me. You love me, you hate me. You show me your sensitive side, then you turn into a total a**hole."

The thing is, I always did at least feel sorry for Karai, very sorry at that. Being obligated to a life stuck between good and evil like she was, that's probably the hardest type of life anyone could live; I'd be the most miserable person on the planet if i was in her position. Because she never actually caused any real harm to the turtles, I was always able to condone her actions until Scion of the Shredder; the one exception being that SAINW, where everything she did was spiteful and she got her just desserts in the end, but that occured in a future that was obliterated and will never happen because of Donatello's return to the present. I did somewhat admire her for her dedication to family and honor; of course, the turtles felt the same way about family and understood honor better than she did, so I admire them more than her.
But when Scion of the Shredder came along, that's where all my sympathy went clear out the window. She had absolutely no right to do what she did to them here because:
1. They didn't even actually "kill" her father, and at least the Utroms allowed him to live, a 1000-times-more-merciful sentence than he deserved. She could have tried to be at least a little content with that.
2. In spite of the way her father treated the turtles, they condoned with her and went out of their way to try to reach out to her and offer her a better life several times, and this is how she thanks them.

Even in the Lost Season, the last time I remember hearing her talking to them about being their allies in that season, she used the infamous phrase, "For now".
That sums up pretty much everything I think about Karai, and I'm not all one-sided in my opinion, but i still hate her.

[Herr_Shredder]

Hehe...That line reminds me of this one: "You f*** me, then snub me. You love me, you hate me. You show me your sensitive side, then you turn into a total a**hole."

The thing is, I always did at least feel sorry for Karai, very sorry at that. Being obligated to a life stuck between good and evil like she was, that's probably the hardest type of life anyone could live; I'd be the most miserable person on the planet if i was in her position. Because she never actually caused any real harm to the turtles, I was always able to condone her actions until Scion of the Shredder; the one exception being that SAINW, where everything she did was spiteful and she got her just desserts in the end, but that occured in a future that was obliterated and will never happen because of Donatello's return to the present. I did somewhat admire her for her dedication to family and honor; of course, the turtles felt the same way about family and understood honor better than she did, so I admire them more than her.
But when Scion of the Shredder came along, that's where all my sympathy went clear out the window. She had absolutely no right to do what she did to them here because:
1. They didn't even actually "kill" her father, and at least the Utroms allowed him to live, a 1000-times-more-merciful sentence than he deserved. She could have tried to be at least a little content with that.
2. In spite of the way her father treated the turtles, they condoned with her and went out of their way to try to reach out to her and offer her a better life several times, and this is how she thanks them.

Even in the Lost Season, the last time I remember hearing her talking to them about being their allies in that season, she used the infamous phrase, "For now".
That sums up pretty much everything I think about Karai, and I'm not all one-sided in my opinion, but i still hate her.

I agree, Karai now reminds me of an annoying version of Prince Zuko. Still Ch'rell didn't die so I never understood why she always said he was destroyed!

[Sage Ninja]

i'm sorry but I can't even feel sorry for her that she was stuck between two worlds honor and evil. Karai knew Shredder was evil and she still went along with it, It clearly shows in SAINW that even though Shredder is enslaveing and killing innocent people she is still on his side and helping him out!? If she is so honorable than show some back bone and stand up for what is right, not excuse or brush off what the offender is doing because you feel obligated to him. Really she needs to show some integrity and do what is right. I can't stand how she is made out to be this honorable person but she really isn't because she refuses to step up and do what is right. And her true colors really come out in season four. Just because she sees Shredder as her father doesn't mean she has to go along with it.

In Reality Check, the super turtles go up against an evil Splinter who has decided to go to the dark side and destroy the planet. Do his sons in this universe blindly follow him and help him out, just because he is their father and mentor? No. They know that what he is doing is wrong and evil and they don't go along with it and try to stop him. Not join him and help him kill every one on the planet. That shows integrity on their part to go against blood and side do what is right. This is why Karai annoys me.

**waits to get slamed by karai supporters**

[Courk]

I've only seen Karai in the movie, but could it possibly be that she's trying to keep them on their toes? I mean, if there was even a moment at the beginning of a battle where the turtles had to decide if she was being good or evil at that particular time, then it's a moment of distraction that could potentially be used against the turtles.

[ajistheman]

i think one reason that don and mike's voices have changed so much is originally the two voice actors were going to voice each other (don's VA was hired to be Mike's VA, and vice versa), and they changed them at the last minute, so the VA probably hadn't found what they wanted to do with their voices yet. That's why Mike's voice sounds like the '87 cartoon Mike.

[Courk]

Why the last-minute change?

[Tinuvielsdreams]

I was just reading the Karai disscussion and I am kinda hoping the movie world will be a new start for her. They could take her character in a new direction and use her for new plots that don't necessarily involve her trying to destroy them but maybe use them in missions or involve them in whole new storylines

I was getting really sick of her too but I love the idea of her character. I like the Karai/ Leo stuff too
I thought after Exodus she would disappear for a while and then come back into the turtles lives in some way, but I don't think I saw the crazy revenge as the best way to do it.
Like Destroying the lair while Leo was in Japan...but I guess it was all just setup for the Turtles to steal the amulet from her to begin the Lost season.

I liked her role in the Lost Season and also see new possibilities for her character after all of that.

[Scandia]

How old is Karai?

[triplexxx]

I was getting really sick of her too but I love the idea of her character. I like the Karai/ Leo stuff too.
Yeah well, I never liked that stuff. Besides, I always believed everything between her and the turtles was always strictly business anyway, that is until it became about revenge, in which case it did become personal, in a completely negative way, that is. And about this...
I was just reading the Karai disscussion and I am kinda hoping the movie world will be a new start for her. They could take her character in a new direction and use her for new plots that don't necessarily involve her trying to destroy them
...I thought maybe it would be too, but after hearing her last line in the movie, I somehow get the feeling that's not gonna happen.
How old is Karai?
Most likely early 20s, older than the turtles and a bit younger than April, but that's only a guess.

[Courk]

I know nothing of Karai, but I do think it'd be interesting to have her (or someone else) manipulating the turtles to help in schemes the turtles would have been against if they knew the whole truth.

[Jon]

I know nothing of Karai, but I do think it'd be interesting to have her (or someone else) manipulating the turtles to help in schemes the turtles would have been against if they knew the whole truth.


Well, do have such a scenario (someone pulling a fast-one on the Turtles) in an episode of Fast Forward.
Know you're just getting started on 2k3 TMNT, so will just leave it at that.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

Yeah well, I never liked that stuff. Besides, I always believed everything between her and the turtles was always strictly business anyway, that is until it became about revenge, in which case it did become personal, in a completely negative way, that is. And about this...

...I thought maybe it would be too, but after hearing her last line in the movie, I somehow get the feeling that's not gonna happen.

Most likely early 20s, older than the turtles and a bit younger than April, but that's only a guess.

Honestly I like seeing the characters interact with other characters. I think it just adds to development. Karai kinda did that to Leo's character. She made him mad and Broody but that's okay.

Yes I agree she is in her early 20s

[ajistheman]

sorry to be off topic, but if that pic is you, then you are damn cute, tinny:)
on topic: i dont remember why the changed the voices of mike and don, i just remember reading it. if you search the internet, i'm sure you'll find the answers you seek
(sorry that sounded cool)

[Tinuvielsdreams]

sorry to be off topic, but if that pic is you, then you are damn cute, tinny:)
on topic: i dont remember why the changed the voices of mike and don, i just remember reading it. if you search the internet, i'm sure you'll find the answers you seek
(sorry that sounded cool)

<- It is me, Thank you ;)
Oh wait you mean the cat right?? Mamtaro is quite cute <3
uh oh now I lost my train of thought...

[Scandia]

I have now watched up to episode 11 of the 2k3 series.

Overall it ROCKS! It is very sequential- as compared to the old one which was quite episodic. I do miss the humor of the old one. But this one is more faithful to the comic- and it also feels like a longer adventure story that you can immerse yourself into.

The backstory that Splinter told April about the origins was just plain beautiful. And they kept the first word (and its speaker) faithful to the comics!

One thing I do not like AT ALL- Splinter uses corporal discipline on the Turtles. Granted, there was an episode of the OT where Splinter threw the Turtles around in order to get them to train and stop slacking off. But I do not approve of corporal punishments. The Turtles are at least 15 by now. Two Turtles (take a wild guess which two) already got individually hit by the stick. And all four got slapped due to having faced the Shredder on their own.

Otherwise, I really like it. I ordered season 4 of the OT and hope to watch it this week. But I will continue watching the NT.

[triplexxx]

One thing I do not like AT ALL- Splinter uses corporal discipline on the Turtles. Granted, there was an episode of the OT where Splinter threw the Turtles around in order to get them to train and stop slacking off. But I do not approve of corporal punishments. The Turtles are at least 15 by now. Two Turtles (take a wild guess which two) already got individually hit by the stick. And all four got slapped due to having faced the Shredder on their own.
Yeah, I hate that too. There are more effective ways to discipline family that are less violent. And when they got slapped, that was completely off, if he didn't want them facing Shredder, he should've told them not to in the first place.

[Spawn Guy]

(1) it's a gag for kids.

(2) They should have figured not being told about the Shredder was a reason not to go fight him.

[triplexxx]

Still, they announced their plan to go face him right in front of Splinter, and he didn't say a word, that sounds very responsible of a parent to me.

[Spawn Guy]

That sounds very responsible of a parent to me.

:lol:

I'll have to watch the episode again, but dosen't he leave before that part? And he has no idea where they are in the second part. Seems odd to me if they told him what they were going to do in the first episode.

[Time Mistress]

The TMNT are trained martial artists. They can take it. A few whacks and bruises are par for the the course from your Master, especially if he is also your dad. Someone of Splinter training would know just the right amount of pressure to apply to get his point across without hurting them...much. What Splinter does to them is not half as bad as what they do to each other, especially the way poor Mikey keeps getting hit upside the head.

[Scandia]

Yes, but he's stronger than them, in a position of power and authority over them, and knows more than they do.

And I'm pretty sure two of the Turtles are going to be getting a heck of a lot more whacks than the other two.

[Time Mistress]

Yes, but he's stronger than them, in a position of power and authority over them, and knows more than they do.

Doesn't stop my Kung Fu Master much.;) Believe me, you'll never forget how to properly apply a presure point ever again. ;)

And I'm pretty sure two of the Turtles are going to be getting a heck of a lot more whacks than the other two.

Gee, I wonder which two Turtles that might be.;)

But if Spinter wants to employ less violent methods he does have options as were seen - like doing flips. And push-ups are good, my Sifu (Chinese for Sensei) is very fond of push-ups.

[Time Mistress]

Yes, but he's stronger than them, in a position of power and authority over them, and knows more than they do.

Doesn't stop my Kung Fu Master much.;) Believe me, you'll never forget how to properly apply a presure point ever again.;) (But all joking aside, he's a nice guy, despite my occasional bruises.)

And I'm pretty sure two of the Turtles are going to be getting a heck of a lot more whacks than the other two.

Gee, I wonder which two Turtles that might be.;)

But if Splinter wants to employ less violent methods he does have options as we've seen - like doing flips. And push-ups are good, my Sifu (Chinese for Sensei) is very fond of push-ups. :p

[Courk]

I'm going to assume the attacking Shredder and getting punished for it refers to "The Shredder Strikes, Part 2." I've only gotten to see part 1, which was a few weeks ago now. IIRC, in part 1, Leo basically says they're going to tell Shredder they're not accepting his invitation. Perhaps I'm overly dense, but to me that doesn't necessarily mean "Hey, fellas, let's fight Shredder!" Though obviously they'd be prepared for it. Again, I didn't get to see the actual Shredder fight. I did get to see the fight with Hun & friends before Shredder appears, though, and it didn't strike me as the turtles starting the fight. They were prepared for a fight and expected it, but if the bad guys had been content to let them go, I don't think they would have fought. Is it different with Shredder? I can understand Splinter being upset if the turtles picked the fight, but not if they were involved out of self-defense.

[Sage Ninja]

ahh, the old debate on Splinter's use of corporal punishment again :D these are always fun :D

Seriously I don't precisely see a problem with Splinter smacking the turtles around to keep them in line. I mean Splinter is in charge of keeping the turtles safe, and lets face it the turtles can be a handful at times for a middle aged rat. I think a good whap in the head with a blunt object would probably get a point across better than , lets say a lecture. I think Splinter is just an old school type of guy who feels a whap in the head offers quicker results than a time consuming psychological methods like coaxing or reasoning.

I can imagine a situation like this where he would use a canning rather than lecture to get his point across.

Spinter is giveing a lesson and one of them is not paying attention, he tells him to pay attention but it goes unheeded, then he gives the evil eye to prompt a responce but it doesn't work then when all else fails he nails that turtle in the head and he finnally falls into line. Its like being in the army where you get nailed for goofing off.

Although I do think that sometimes Splinter over uses the cane at times or uses it when its not entirely warranted. Like when one of the turtles is not being disobediant exactly and is just being...well, teenagers :| My guess is that Splinter is getting cranky in his old age. I wonder if Splinter used the cane to the head method of punishment when the turtles where little. Some how I don't see Splinter spanking the turtles when they stepped out of line when they where younger.

What Splinter does to them is not half as bad as what they do to each other, especially the way poor Mikey keeps getting hit upside the head.

Yeah, Mikey's head is as intimately aquainted with Splinter's cane as the rest of his body is aquainted with Raphael's fist...and on occassion Leo and Don's as well. I wonder if they picked this up from Splinter? :ohwell:

[triplexxx]

I wonder if they picked this up from Splinter? :ohwell:
Most likely, yes. Those times he asked himself, "Where did I go wrong?"...well, here's one way.

[Scandia]

But if Spinter wants to employ less violent methods he does have options as were seen - like doing flips. And push-ups are good, my Sifu (Chinese for Sensei) is very fond of push-ups.

I think this is MUCH more useful. I love it in the movies when he disciplines them by having them do backflips. Works much better.

If Splinter is hitting the Turtles in the HEAD, then this is a MAJOR screw-up from the creators of the show. He could cause some serious damage by doing this. I have a theory as to Raph's personality issues being caused by getting hit in the head when he fell down the drain.

[Spawn Guy]

And until Peter Laird says "Oh yeah, Raph is offically brain damaged" that's all it is. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick_%28comics%29

[Scandia]

Just because Stick did it does not make it right.

Some kids respond better than others to corporal punishment. I was NOT one of them. I especially think Donatello would feel very violated by it.

[Spawn Guy]

Dosen't make it wrong either. There's a basis for it as a plot point and in real life, but of course everyone overlooks that because Splinter is such a meany.

[Scandia]

I just watched "Tales of Leo". It was pure heaven! A Leo episode PLUS multiple instances of the chibi turtles! SWEET!

[Courk]

I finally got a chance to watch "The Golden Puck." 'Twas eh.

The fighting was pretty cool (I've yet to see one I didn't think looked good), and I especially liked Donnie's skill as they were getting the puck back. I thought his landing was great, and then his pole vault over the van and into it just added to it. What were Leo and Raph planning on doing by staying on the roof?

I liked the turtles in coats and hockey masks at the beginning -- they had pupils, too! They looked kinda cute all bundled up with no cloth masks.

I just didn't like the villains. I don't know if they ever appear again, but the episode gave me the impression that they won't be back. Their plan seemed like overkill for what they wanted to accomplish, too. Not that what I've seen of Stockman's plan was any more appropriate -- create a horde of killer robots to loot banks? -- but for some reason I'm OK accepting that from him.

[Courk]

I said elsewhere that I would be ordering season 1 part 1 online. That turned out to be a lie as I gave in to instant gratification at the store today.

I started watching the skipped ones in order, but eventually gave in and had to see "The Shredder Strikes, part 2."

One thing I liked was when the turtles are in front of the water tower looking at Shredder. The turtle's bandanas (or whatever they're called -- masks?) are blowing to the right of the screen, and Shredder's & friends' are blowing to the left -- which they should since they're facing each other. I thought it showed nice attention to detail.

I loved at the beginning of that scene when they're all leaning against the water tower. Whoever thought up that pose did a fantastic job. I would not want to mess with them if I were a foot soldier.

Finally, I think there were at least 2-3 instances of Raph jumping to the rescue of one of his brothers. He gives this impression of a hot-head who is likely to lose focus during a fight, but in actuality he can not only fight and defend himself, but he can also keep an eye out for his brothers and manage to rush to their defense should they need it. I think that shows a tremendous amount of focus, among other things.

[Scandia]

Yes- and in the Chasing Monsters episode, Raph is the one who makes new katanas for Leo as well as watching him the closest. Shows you what a good brother Raph can be. I think the movies exaggerated Raph's rivalry with Leo a a little.

[Sage Ninja]

Just because Stick did it does not make it right.

Some kids respond better than others to corporal punishment. I was NOT one of them. I especially think Donatello would feel very violated by it.

it depends on the type of corporal punishment. I don't think there is a parent alive that has never used physical disaplign before at least once on their child. Whether it be a smack on the hand or a swat on the bottom, I'm sure that most parents have done this to their child at least once while raising them (I realize that there are probably exceptions to the rule). Personaly I, like Scandia, didn't respond well to corporal punishment. But then I think it depends on the severity of the corporal punishment. I don't think a smack on the hand or a single swat on the butt is bad or even harmful in a psychological way. But I do think back handing a child across the face or hitting on other parts of the body other than the hand is bad and harmful, and has the potentcial to get out of hand.

But back on topic, why do you feel Donatello would feel offended with corporal punishment, more so than the other turtles Scandia? Some how I would have thought that Raphael with all his anger issues would feel the most violated by corporal punishment as a youngster than any of the other turtles.

Most likely, yes. Those times he asked himself, "Where did I go wrong?"...well, here's one way.

heh, I wasn't being entirely serious when I asked that. I think the turtles whap Mikey because he pushes them to the point where the only way to get him to lay off (or stop fooing around) is to...smack him. But I guess you could say that it continues because Splinter lets it continue instead of putting a stop to it and saying "uh, look i'm the parent here and i'll hand out the disaplign, so stop hitting each other". Although I guess Splinter realizes how unbearable living with Mikey can be so maybe he Splinter lets it go because Michaelangelo can be a handful some times.

[Scandia]

I certainly was not referring to the occasional swat to the hand or behind when the kid did something dangerous like jump off a rooftop or run into traffic. I am talking about getting slapped on the face for saying a mild curse word or spilling a drink- things like that.

Raph and Mikey I can imagine would just become stoic and roll their eyes about it. Raph may lash out in the long run or if he had gotten particularly enraged, but this would not be super common IMHO. Raph also may reply with a cynical remark of his own.

But Donnie would think it is pointless, since he has already realized that what he did was wrong. He would feel it's an intrusion of his personal space.

And if anyone would cry due to physical punishment, it would be Leo. Not because it hurts or because it is intrusive- but because he feels terrible for disappointing Splinter so much.

[ajistheman]

that is an awesome pose, courk
i hope you enjoyed the first half of season 1
and the villains from golden puck never return
i agree with their motives being lamed, but the episode was pretty funny imo

[Scandia]

I just read the Leonardo micro-series comic today. It's amazing how the 2k3 "The Shredder Strikes Back" episodes were based on it. If you want fidelity to the comic, watch the 2k3 series. If you want to laugh your pants off, then watch the OT

[Courk]

Here are my current thoughts on some more episodes from Season 1, part 1:

Darkness on the Edge of Town -- I liked the eagerness they showed at being able to adventure above ground. I don't know how this progresses, but I like that it's still a novelty for them. While the events of the episode do seem like they'll be important, I just don't feel like there was quite enough there for a full episode. I realize that, with TV, there's a set window of time they have to fill. Without that requirement, though, I feel like they could have told the story more effectively in less time.


The Way of Invisibility -- I really liked this episode. Their opening training was pretty interesting, and Casey's entrance was great. I loved Splinter's reaction. :-) Have I seen the anti-turtle graffitti before? I'm going to have to watch the episodes after this one again to see if it's included in flashback-y things. Could it be included in one of the "Search for Splinter" episodes?

I like that Mikey was the one to say it seems like a trap -- it shows that he analyzed the information without having to consult with anyone. I think it would have been too easy and almost cliché to have Leo or Donnie mention it.

I also liked the attempts to get Casey to leave. Even Mikey, who you would think would embrace the opportunity to goof off, wanted Casey out, apparently to resume training. As before, I like how going topside is a treat for Raph.

Invisible ninjas are pretty cool.

I loved Raph trying to fight the Foot Tech Ninjas when rejoined with his brothers, even though he couldn't see them. He doesn't give up, does he?

Is that the first appearance of the Guardian? Does he ever get a name?


Angel -- I expected this episode to be bad. I was gladly mistaken. From its description, I thought it'd be one of those things where the kid has a sudden change of heart right at the end. Luckily she realized her mistake relatively quickly. I liked this episode.

At this point in time, do the turtles technically live at the corner of Eastman and Laird? Their lair is underground, with the glowy elevator thing that goes up to the warehouse, and the warehouse is on Eastman and Laird.


I watched The Shredder Strikes, Part 2 again. I noticed that Raph saves Donnie twice and Leo once. (I also noticed Raph broke a foot soldier's sword -- I love that.) I find it interesting that Donnie was protected twice by Raph, and Mikey not at all. However, for most of the episode Mikey was below par, so he wasn't necessarily getting himself into the more dangerous situations. For one of Donnie's rescues, it seems he merely needed to turn around and defend himself, something he still had time to do when Raph intervened. I'm going to call it more or less even. As far as I can tell from this episode, every turtle needs the same amount of protection from Raph. I hope that keeps up. Can you tell I love Raph being protective of his brothers? :-)

[ajistheman]

yes, first appearance of the guardian, and he never gets a name. Do you like Raph the best Courk:) ? Those are some good episodes back then.

[Courk]

Actually, Leo's my favorite. I don't overly favor him, though. I find them all interesting. I think my favorite moments are when they act outside what one could stereotypically expect. Like Mikey showing maturity, Raph showing he cares for others, and Leo deferring to others (the only example of this I can think of is in the first episode when he doesn't want to go above ground, but Donnie convinces him otherwise). I can't think of anything like this from Donnie yet, but I haven't seen much.

[Shredder_Fan]

In the new cartoon, i whas like ow my god so coooool

Shredder's new look well in one word "Beautiful" the red eays
his amor soooo cooool

but i like the old cartoon more....why ?....i love the Technodrome and Shredder's old look

[Revan]

yes, first appearance of the guardian, and he never gets a name. Do you like Raph the best Courk:) ? Those are some good episodes back then.

I still don't understand why the guardian couldn't tell the turtles where Splinter was. Sure, the utroms are supposed to be a secret but the guardian wouldn't even tell them if Splinter was ok. If the guards were allies, why would they take Splinter and not tell the boys? It felt like that was written in there to confuse the audience and keep us in suspense when in reality, Splinter was going to be fine all along and released. If the turtles would have just waited they could have avoided the entire space arc and got Splinter back. But it was interesting watching their space adventures.

[Courk]

How often does the Guardian appear? Is he just season 1, or does he pop up at later times, too? Is he the only Guardian?

With as little as I've seen of him, I find him very intriguing and mysterious. Part of me wants to see him developed further, but another part doesn't want him to lose that mysterious aspect. I need to see him fight more.

[Revan]

There are many many utrom guardians all of which wear the same attire and carry the same sword. The are quite skilled in martial arts. I believe the unofficial guardian leader makes his last appearance in episode 34 "Secret Origins." He was a cool character but he left with the utroms and did not return.

[Courk]

Well that makes sense. Of course he'd leave with the Utroms, I just didn't know they left (don't worry, you didn't spoil anything).

How is "Utrom" pronounced, anyway? On the official site, a description described one as "an Utrom," but I pronounce it you-trom, and "an you-trom" doesn't sound right to me. Could it be "oo-trom?"

[Jon]

Well that makes sense. Of course he'd leave with the Utroms, I just didn't know they left (don't worry, you didn't spoil anything).

How is "Utrom" pronounced, anyway? On the official site, a description described one as "an Utrom," but I pronounce it you-trom, and "an you-trom" doesn't sound right to me. Could it be "oo-trom?"


You're right on that last one. "Utrom" is pronounced 'oo-trom' (with the first part being like in the exclamation 'oo, my' and the second part being like the 'trom' in the musical instrument 'trombone').

[Revan]

Haven't you seen any episode where the characters talk about the utroms yet? How far are you? I didn't mean to give anything away I just assumed that since you were talking of utroms you had seen those eps. sorry about that.

[Jon]

Haven't you seen any episode where the characters talk about the utroms yet? How far are you? I didn't mean to give anything away I just assumed that since you were talking of utroms you had seen those eps. sorry about that.


From what Courk's mentioned on here, he's seen the Season 1 Part 1 DVD episodes, and "Search For Splinter" Pt. 1 (when it aired a few weeks ago). As well as reading some about other episodes.
So, though has only recently gotten into watching 2k3 TMNT, has basic knowledge of later stuff too.

[Courk]

Exactly, except I'm a girl. And I also got to see part 2 of Search for Splinter.

When I first saw Search for Splinter, I was pretty certain that those were indeed the Utroms from what I'd read in summaries, but I realized I wasn't sure because no one named them in those episodes.

No worries about the Utrom thing. So they end up leaving, big deal. I'm sure them getting to that point is the exciting part.

[Jon]

Exactly, except I'm a girl. And I also got to see part 2 of Search for Splinter.

When I first saw Search for Splinter, I was pretty certain that those were indeed the Utroms from what I'd read in summaries, but I realized I wasn't sure because no one named them in those episodes.

No worries about the Utrom thing. So they end up leaving, big deal. I'm sure them getting to that point is the exciting part.


Whoops, sorry (on the he/she trouble) -- but can't really tell here without checking profiles (which I didn't at the time).

Anyway - yes, the Utroms have quite a few appearences in the show (some even after the mentioned departure from Earth).
But, will leave it at that. And let you enjoy when the new DVDs come out.

[Ecto Jedi]

But, will leave it at that. And let you enjoy when the new DVDs come out.

Speaking of DVDs, what's the street date for Season 1 Part 2? Has it been announced yet?

[Masked Ninja]

I think I saw September mentioned somewhere? Perhaps it was at the official site, but I'd have to check and be sure. I can't wait, that's all I know.

[Revan]

Did the Utroms know of the Federation and Triceratons before the alien invasion?
I have wondered if the Utroms have been to D’Hoonnib or anywhere else the Triceratons and Federation were.

[Jon]

Did the Utroms know of the Federation and Triceratons before the alien invasion?
I have wondered if the Utroms have been to D’Hoonnib or anywhere else the Triceratons and Federation were.


Well....

A few from each group were accidentally brought to Earth by the TransMat in the beginning of "Secret Origins". And Shredder (Ch'Rell) knew about Triceratons in "Rogue in the House".

[Revan]

Well....

A few from each group were accidentally brought to Earth by the TransMat in the beginning of "Secret Origins". And Shredder (Ch'Rell) knew about Triceratons in "Rogue in the House".

ok

well then did they utroms know about the triceratons before the transmat incident?:ohwell:

[Courk]

Even though I'm still only halfway through Season 1, I do have a general question about Seasons 2+. Based on people's comments elsewhere about various episodes, it sounds like Seasons 3 and 4 have a lot of episodes people like, to the point that it's hard to choose one that's their favorite. I've gotten the impression (I think I read it, too, though I can't remember where) that Season 2 isn't as good as the rest of the seasons. Is this right? Just from descriptions and what I've heard about the episodes, Season 2, especially the second half, sounds as good as Season 1. Are Seasons 3 and 4 even better than that?

[Revan]

Even though I'm still only halfway through Season 1, I do have a general question about Seasons 2+. Based on people's comments elsewhere about various episodes, it sounds like Seasons 3 and 4 have a lot of episodes people like, to the point that it's hard to choose one that's their favorite. I've gotten the impression (I think I read it, too, though I can't remember where) that Season 2 isn't as good as the rest of the seasons. Is this right? Just from descriptions and what I've heard about the episodes, Season 2, especially the second half, sounds as good as Season 1. Are Seasons 3 and 4 even better than that?

It's always good to hear other people's opinions but when you get down to it, you should just watch all the eps and decide for yourself. Season two has it's share of good episodes. It all depends on what you like. Personally I like all the seasons. I don't like them all exactly equally but they are all good.

The villians change through the seasons
Season one is mostly shredder
Season two is a lot of triceratons, federation, and shredder
Season three they throw some new villians in the mix. My favorite season three villian is the merged Daimyo/Drako... SAINW
Season four is mainly bishop
Season five is Oroku Saki... the original
FF is Sh'okanabo, dunn, jammerhead, and not sure who else yet.

[Scandia]

All seasons so far have had good episodes and mediocre episodes. But so far it has been a very well written cartoon and I cannot get enough of it.

I do want to see Leonardo be able to overcome his depression. He used to talk and listen so much- now he just keeps to himself. Donatello has done a good job so far of leading when necessary. But I cannot wait till Leonardo returns to his good old self- and I know when it happens. I do not know if the agony should have been prolonged for so much. He did a good job training Mikey for "Grudge's Match". But I can tell he's not happy.

[Masked Ninja]

Even though I'm still only halfway through Season 1, I do have a general question about Seasons 2+. Based on people's comments elsewhere about various episodes, it sounds like Seasons 3 and 4 have a lot of episodes people like, to the point that it's hard to choose one that's their favorite. I've gotten the impression (I think I read it, too, though I can't remember where) that Season 2 isn't as good as the rest of the seasons. Is this right? Just from descriptions and what I've heard about the episodes, Season 2, especially the second half, sounds as good as Season 1. Are Seasons 3 and 4 even better than that?Season 2 does indeed have some great episodes, but as a whole it tends to get written off because it has the highest concentration of dumb/oneshot episodes (examples: Golden Puck and... return of the Garbageman in Junklantis *gak*). Some people also didn't like the "Turtles in Space" arc at the beginning, but I did (from what I remember...saw those before I started watching regularly) But the multiple-episode storylines (City at War, Rogue in the House) were generally good.

Seasons 3 and 4 were great because they did even better with the multiple-episode arcs, and got me excited to sneak to the dorm basement to watch them every Saturday morning... what was going to happen next?! Plus they were pushing the envelope of what can be seen on Saturday-morning TV, which I liked to see. Turtles being able to kick some serious butt and having some character development was refreshing to say the least.

[Scandia]

I am not happy with Season 4 so far. They have prolonged Leo's agony too much. It should have had only 3-4 episodes before sending Leo to the Ancient One to be healed. It saddens me to see my favorite Turtle going through such pain.

Also- they should have shown him having nightmares and flashbacks. While they do state that he has flashbacks, it would be a good idea if they showed the actual flashbacks he is having- not just his stating what the flashback is all about. Some people may not be able to make the connection between the shell shock and his angry depression obsession.

I did notice that during the meditation vision in "Bad Day", Leo was very much in his usual character.

[Revan]

^ Like you said, they are trying to show Leo's pain. The more episodes they show it, the more likely the viewers were going to see one of them. We who have seen every ep then get to see the numerous times that Leo is in pain. Season four is actually a great season. Stick with it.

I really love how the turtles ninjitsu skills evolve throughout the series. At the beginning of the series they fight well against opponents but towards the later eps, they make short work of more enemies.
The best example I can think of is from Prodigal Son when Leo makes short work of Karai. In the earlier eps, they have had much trouble with her.

[Scandia]

Oh I'm definitely sticking with it. I just watched "Samurai Tourist" this morning. And I know what comes next- I have even watched "The Ancient One" and "Prodigal Son". I am very happy that Leo heals. I am just not happy that he is in pain for so long.

Possibly because I can tell exactly what happened and its consequences.

And I do not want to see viewers whose first TMNT exposure is one of those episodes to think that Leo is his disintegrated shadow form. It's obvious something horrible has happened to him and he has not healed.

I wonder if the Utroms can perform surgery to repair his shell.

[Revan]

I wonder if the Utroms can perform surgery to repair his shell.
They probably could but it would heal on it's own anyway.
It stays damaged all the way through the end of the lost season. Then in the first FF ep it is all healed up.

[Courk]

Would it really? I've just seen screenshots of his damaged shell, and I can't imagine that healing too well on its own. I've never had a turtle with a damaged shell, though, so I can't really base that on anything factual. It looks like that spot would be so tender and sore, too.

[Scandia]

Hence I suggested the surgery.

I just rewatched "Prodigal Son". Beautiful episode in every way. Leonardo is back to his usual self. Back to being the excellent student and son. Can't wait to see more of this season- but class is about to start.

[Revan]

Would it really? I've just seen screenshots of his damaged shell, and I can't imagine that healing too well on its own. I've never had a turtle with a damaged shell, though, so I can't really base that on anything factual. It looks like that spot would be so tender and sore, too.
I know nothing of turtles but Buslady has informed us that their shells to regenerate. Anyway, these are mutant humanoid turtles so it's logical to assume they can heal themselves much like we can.

I wonder though about the tenderness. I'm sure something like that would be.

[Courk]

All I can really compare it to is a finger nail. I've never ripped one off, but I did once manage to have the "blunt" end of a needle slide under one (thimbles=friends). That actually hurt a lot, especially for the size of the injury.

I can't think of anything else that's comparably attached like I imagine a turtle's shell to be. So taking a little needle injury and multiplying it to be the size of a hand across the shoulder -- ouch! I'm having sympathy pain.

On a side note: Neutrino, what ep is your sig from?

[Revan]

shredder strikes part 2

[Courk]

I thought that was the water tower. I don't remember Mikey tightening his mask, though. I love detail.

[Scandia]

My brother lost a whole fingernail at once in one moment. It began growing back very shortly afterwards. There was no remaining evidence to suggest it had been damaged.

Glad Leo will get his shell healed back. And what it stands for metaphorically has also healed.

[Courk]

I got curious about shell damage, and found this:

http://www.anapsid.org/shellrepair.html

Apparently they treated it wrong if they just left his shell open. :-)

[Scandia]

I love the fact that they have adapted so many stories from the original comic. Now I'd like to see them adapt even more from the current Tales that would allow it.

However, I do not know what they were thinking when they had the Turtles be in the distant past for 3 months in "The Return of Savanti Romero Part II". Especially with Renet. She's an airhead IMHO and people are going to speculate that things happened even though most of us know for a fact that they did not. I know they returned to the same instant they had left- and previously it had been 3 weeks vs. 8 hours. But 3 months is a bit too long- although at my age and with my job, they pass in the blink of an eye. In that stressful situation, it prolonged the agony too much.

Why do I feel weird about this, when my favorite book has even younger kids gone for 14 years? Because in the latter they are in very good hands (again, being vague on purpose to avoid touching a controversial topic). And they were not worried every second about an upcoming meteor crashing.

[SimplerSimon]

However, I do not know what they were thinking when they had the Turtles be in the distant past for 3 months in "The Return of Savanti Romero Part II". Especially with Renet. She's an airhead IMHO and people are going to speculate that things happened even though most of us know for a fact that they did not. I know they returned to the same instant they had left- and previously it had been 3 weeks vs. 8 hours. But 3 months is a bit too long- although at my age and with my job, they pass in the blink of an eye. In that stressful situation, it prolonged the agony too much.

3 months is the incubation period before creatures infected with bishop's alien dna start to transform - in this case, Donatello. The last time the creatures around the city transformed was after Leo had left for 3 months to train with the ancient one.

So yeah, keeping them in the past was basically a plot device to get to Don's transformation next episode.

[Scandia]

So they don't stay that long with Renet in the past in the original Mirage comic then?

I did notice that this last arc of the 4th season does seem like they combined the current changes that Raphael and Donatello are going through in the Mirage Volume 4 comics. But this time Donnie became a giant monster instead of Raph.

However, so they did age 3 months indeed? It's not like in Narnia where they returned agewise to where they had left off. Because April and Splinter and the rest had not aged. The Turtles had literally been returned forward in time to the same day in which they had gone with Renet to the past.

[Courk]

I don't know the episode(s) or event(s) you're referring to, but 3 months isn't really that long. Yes, if you travel backwards or forwards in time however many years, spend 3 months in that time, then return to the exact moment you left, you will be 3 months older than you had been the instant before you left. I just don't think 3 months is significant enough to matter in terms of, say, their ages and maturity. If they come back seeming older and more mature, I'd likely attribute that to any events that happened during those 3 months rather than the 3 months themselves.

[Revan]

Especially with Renet. She's an airhead IMHO and people are going to speculate that things happened even though most of us know for a fact that they did not.
I really hope you aren't talking about what I think you are.

I know they returned to the same instant they had left- and previously it had been 3 weeks vs. 8 hours. But 3 months is a bit too long- although at my age and with my job, they pass in the blink of an eye. In that stressful situation, it prolonged the agony too much.
Boy wouldn't that suck? They knew Simultaneous would not come for them and they had absolutely zero chances of returning home. I would be so depresed I might have a nervous breakdown.

[Scandia]

Sadly, yes. I do not have a dirty mind and know that it would not be possible nor do any of them show interest in her or vice versa. But I can imagine people coming up with the craziest accusations about it.

[SimplerSimon]

So they don't stay that long with Renet in the past in the original Mirage comic then?

Actually they do. Maybe they noticed it from the comics and adapted it into the season 4 storyline. One difference though is that in the comic the turtles actually eat the fish before going home - a bit of dry humour I wish the series had kept.

[Scandia]

I just finished Season Five.

Man, that was MAGNIFICENT!

The first 3 seasons and the 5th one have left me beyond amazed. The 4th one could have been better- but I am still glad I watched it.

Now I will order the first half of Fast Forward and hope that the second half is released soon.

[Coola Yagami]

yah I saw the review on that issue. The TMNT did stay those 3 months before Mike was lucky enough to find the fishy. Though as usual, Playmates saw the perfect opportunity to make the Turtles wear their Paleo Patrol outfits (in stores now! *wink wink*) after the 3 month period.

[Revan]

^ That was rediculous! We see the turtles in their paleo outfits for all of 2 mintues and there is a whole huge line of figs. And splinter even got a paleo fig and he didn't even go back in time with them! :ohwell:

[ToTheNines]

Dude it's Playmates, it's what they do.

[Revan]

So how's it coming, Courk? Did ya make it through the series yet?

[Courk]

I'm not even through season 1 yet. I have about 40 more days until part 2 is out. I'm eagerly awaiting that. I'm pacing myself because it saves money from buying those 3 episode DVDs, plus it makes this last longer. It's like savoring a cake, but much more long-term. In addition to the Shredder and New York span of episodes, I'm excited for Notes From The Underground. Despite all the spoilers I've uncovered for myself, I've somehow managed to avoid finding out a whole lot about those episodes.

Heh, I was looking at my earlier posts and found where I said I was looking forward to Big Brawl because it was a 4-parter. My reasonings have changed. I've recently fallen inexplicably in love with Usagi -- and I haven't encountered him as a character in the show or any comics! I wish I knew where that came from.

[raphael_is_cool]

Usagi Yojimbo is a character created by Stan Sakai.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usagi_Yojimbo

There used to be a toy of him, related to the 1980s cartoon but I can't remember if he ever appeared in any episodes.

I'm an English fan and I have to admit that I've been so behind with the episodes now. Firstly, they only release stupid 2-3 episode box sets that I'm not gonna keep forking out for. Secondly, the episodes are on at 9:30 on weekdays and that is when I'm usually at work. Thirdly, my internet connection is rubbish for acquiring the episodes by <ahem> other means.

I absolutely loved the first season because it was the beginning and everything was new to them. The second season was also good (from what I managed to catch) because while it was in space it still captured that 'lost' feeling. The third and fourth I caught bits of and it seemed to be a lot more of the one-shots that I saw, but still good.

I think the writers have done an excellent job with the season-wide story arcs and comic adaptations.

[Jon]

^ Usagi has appeared in both the Classic TMNT Cartoon and the 2k3 one as well.

Yes, 2k3 TMNT is quite a series. Lot of great stuff to it.

[Scandia]

I agree that it's great. It combines the plotlines of the original comic with some of the best aspects of the old toon and movies and delivers a great product. It's not as gritty as the Mirage comics, but much more serious than the OT while at the same time still having humor. It is coherent and consistent and quite engaging. I want more of it soon.

[Revan]

I'm not even through season 1 yet. I have about 40 more days until part 2 is out. I'm eagerly awaiting that. I'm pacing myself because it saves money from buying those 3 episode DVDs, plus it makes this last longer. It's like savoring a cake, but much more long-term. In addition to the Shredder and New York span of episodes, I'm excited for Notes From The Underground. Despite all the spoilers I've uncovered for myself, I've somehow managed to avoid finding out a whole lot about those episodes.

Heh, I was looking at my earlier posts and found where I said I was looking forward to Big Brawl because it was a 4-parter. My reasonings have changed. I've recently fallen inexplicably in love with Usagi -- and I haven't encountered him as a character in the show or any comics! I wish I knew where that came from.
Oh I see. That's a big fat bummer! Please check back in to this thread after you finish the first season.:) I love to talk about 2k3. It's my favorite universe.

[Courk]

After I finish the first season? I plan on typing thoughts every few episodes. :-)

I know who Usagi is, but not having encountered him as a character I really shouldn't have any opinion of him, much less the highly positive one that I have!

[Revan]

After I finish the first season? I plan on typing thoughts every few episodes. :-)

I know who Usagi is, but not having encountered him as a character I really shouldn't have any opinion of him, much less the highly positive one that I have!

Rightfully so. He's awesome! How can you not love him.

[Jon]

After I finish the first season? I plan on typing thoughts every few episodes. :-)


Great thinking! Come mid-Sept. (when the Season 1 Part 2 Set is to be released), look forward to more of your thoughts. :)

[ajistheman]

i know you may love Usagi, but you will fall in love with the return to new york episodes. I promise:)

[Courk]

As much giddy happiness as I have going around right now, that increases it even more!

I'm so looking forward to Shredder Strikes Back that I keep thinking the season ends with that. I keep forgetting that there are other episodes after that I'm excited to see, too. Happy happy joy joy! Now to wait a month like this...

[ToTheNines]

i know you may love Usagi, but you will fall in love with the return to new york episodes. I promise:)

Not if he's read the comic book version. But if he hasn't then yes, I remember the first time those 3 were showed... it was so amazing. Then I found the comics, I prefer seeing somthing animated than just reading the comic version, but I was just like "why didn't they do it like this!". I know certain things were impossible to include from how the story was panning out, but still...

[Courk]

<-- girl.

I've not read those comics yet. I did read a synopsis of them, and they did mention some things that sounded interesting that I'm fairly certain they'll be unable to include in the episodes due to, as you said, the direction their story was going.

[ToTheNines]

oops, my bad.

[Courk]

I watched "Things Change" again tonight. Earlier I had noticed that Mikey imitates Splinter when saying "Poor choice, Raphael." This time around, though, I noticed that everyone but Mikey gets at least a tiny taste of being the leader.

Leo -- duh.

Raph takes charge deciding they have to go above ground, and then leads the way looking for a manhole.

Donnie, while not the best example of leadership, decides how to go after Raph, in a way. Leo says something like "We have to do something" and Donnie immediately leads the way to the roof. It's also unclear if Donnie came up with stealing the truck as an escape plan on his own, or if he and Leo discussed it even briefly. Leo seems to know what's going on, since he says it's plan B, but I can't figure out when he had time to either come up with the idea and communicate it to Donnie, or realize what Donnie was doing.

So after Leo, Raph shows the most leadership in this episode, with Donnie coming in third. All Mikey does is imitate their leader, Splinter.

I don't know if that was a fluke thing or if they planned it and similar instances will appear later. I want Mikey's imitation to be important, maybe in a situation where one of the others is missing and he has to think like them to get out of the situation, which he can do because he's been imitating others all along. Or maybe I'm reading too much into a cartoon.

[ToTheNines]

I don't know if that was a fluke thing or if they planned it and similar instances will appear later. I want Mikey's imitation to be important, maybe in a situation where one of the others is missing and he has to think like them to get out of the situation, which he can do because he's been imitating others all along. Or maybe I'm reading too much into a cartoon.

You're reading too much into the character, if anything. It's just Mikey being Mikey :)

[Courk]

I could never get much out of characters when I had to read books for school, even when I was supposed to have a lot to work with. But, so help me, I can read too much into a cartoon character! I'm sure my teachers would be proud. ;-)

[Sage Ninja]

I watched "Things Change" again tonight. Earlier I had noticed that Mikey imitates Splinter when saying "Poor choice, Raphael." This time around, though, I noticed that everyone but Mikey gets at least a tiny taste of being the leader.

Leo -- duh.

Raph takes charge deciding they have to go above ground, and then leads the way looking for a manhole.

Donnie, while not the best example of leadership, decides how to go after Raph, in a way. Leo says something like "We have to do something" and Donnie immediately leads the way to the roof. It's also unclear if Donnie came up with stealing the truck as an escape plan on his own, or if he and Leo discussed it even briefly. Leo seems to know what's going on, since he says it's plan B, but I can't figure out when he had time to either come up with the idea and communicate it to Donnie, or realize what Donnie was doing.

So after Leo, Raph shows the most leadership in this episode, with Donnie coming in third. All Mikey does is imitate their leader, Splinter.

I don't know if that was a fluke thing or if they planned it and similar instances will appear later. I want Mikey's imitation to be important, maybe in a situation where one of the others is missing and he has to think like them to get out of the situation, which he can do because he's been imitating others all along. Or maybe I'm reading too much into a cartoon.

don't feel like your reading to much into a cartoon character. Every one here to some degree does the same thing. I do too.

But to add on your Mikey didn't have a shot at leading comment. You have to keep in mind that Mikey is sort of a "side lines" type of guy. He preferes to stays out of the serious tactic formulating and involved task taking in favor of standing off to the side and making funny observations and immitations and lets the other three run the show and make all the important decisions . Its because he's more laid back than the rest. But that doesn't mean he doesn't ever do any thing useful. Even amidst his crazy random one liners and antics he's still participating in the action.

I'm not saying he doesn't like to make imporatant decisions or occassionally lead I just think he feels that the other three cover that area pretty well already. But with Mikey you sorta got to read between the lines. Even he is a very wild off the wall character there is still under tones of a more serious an indepth side to him. I've always thought that in the episode "Turtle titan" was his way of asserting him self as an indivdual and and functioning on his own with out his other three brothers presence to over shadow him. But thats just me reading i in between the lines. After you see this episode go hog wild with the "reading to much into a cartoon character" abd tell me what you think.

[Courk]

But to add on your Mikey didn't have a shot at leading comment. You have to keep in mind that Mikey is sort of a "side lines" type of guy. He preferes to stays out of the serious tactic formulating and involved task taking in favor of standing off to the side and making funny observations and immitations and lets the other three run the show and make all the important decisions . Its because he's more laid back than the rest. But that doesn't mean he doesn't ever do any thing useful. Even amidst his crazy random one liners and antics he's still participating in the action.

That's part of what I was trying to say. Even in the first episode they managed to fit all that in and show that Mikey doesn't want to lead. That's pretty good for 20-some minutes.

[triplexxx]

But then again, it's only the first ep, so don't be quick to jump to conclusions.

[Courk]

Oh, believe me, I'm not conclusion jumping. If anything, it's speculation hopping. :-)

I'm just sharing observations I had, and since I don't have a whole lot to work with at this time, I'm trying to dig deeper through less.

[Warhorse]

Hey, I just watched Cousin Sid.

First, let me say, I loved Donatello's attitude in this episode. How come they can't show him more kick ass like he was in this one. He was great, from using the rope, then with his good night line before knocking the guy's lights out. I loved it.

But then, I'm a Raph fan, no brainer there. And I did love it when he made that snide remark about Leo that Karai should stab him more often. But why was he locked up in the closet? He could have contributed to helping out, byt tripping someone, or flinging a board from the second story window to one of the thugs on the ground. I mean, if Mikey could have fought on two broken legs, which should be impossible, then Raph should have gotten at least one hit in. Like I said, he's pretty good at flinging projectiles through the air from far distances towards a target, he could have done that. I just hate it when one Turtle is left out for whatever reason, especially Raph.

[Revan]

Hey, I just watched Cousin Sid.

First, let me say, I loved Donatello's attitude in this episode. How come they can't show him more kick ass like he was in this one. He was great, from using the rope, then with his good night line before knocking the guy's lights out. I loved it.

But then, I'm a Raph fan, no brainer there. And I did love it when he made that snide remark about Leo that Karai should stab him more often. But why was he locked up in the closet? He could have contributed to helping out, byt tripping someone, or flinging a board from the second story window to one of the thugs on the ground. I mean, if Mikey could have fought on two broken legs, which should be impossible, then Raph should have gotten at least one hit in. Like I said, he's pretty good at flinging projectiles through the air from far distances towards a target, he could have done that. I just hate it when one Turtle is left out for whatever reason, especially Raph.

It pains me to see Raph in pain as well, but he could barely move. Even when he barely lifted his arm he was in a world of hurt. The other 3 guys could at least move unaided.
One thing I don't like is when Raph hits Mikey. It was funny the first few times and even understandable the next few. But it got old and seemed forced and even mean at times. Those two are best of friends and shouldn't be so violent. But I suppose that is Raph for ya.

[ToTheNines]

Ok here's a list of episodes that I missed. Can some one tell me if I missed anything amazing?

Reflections
Return of the Justice Force (read the comic)
HATE (Again, read the comic)
New Blood
The Entity Below
Time Travails
Reality Check
Across The Universe
The Real World 1 and 2
Grudge Match (caught the first half or so of this one)
Wing and a Prayer
Return of Savanti

[Jon]

Out of those there are alot of good episodes. Such as--

"Reality Check", "Across the Universe" and "The Real World" 2-Parter, accompanied by "Same As It Never Was", are a 5-episode story-arc.

"Time Travails" works as a precursor to both the above and "Return of Savanti" 2-Parter.

[Warhorse]

It pains me to see Raph in pain as well, but he could barely move. Even when he barely lifted his arm he was in a world of hurt. The other 3 guys could at least move unaided.
One thing I don't like is when Raph hits Mikey. It was funny the first few times and even understandable the next few. But it got old and seemed forced and even mean at times. Those two are best of friends and shouldn't be so violent. But I suppose that is Raph for ya.

And in reality, Mikey shouldn't have been able to walk at all on two broken legs. Everyone got a chance to take care of the bad guys except Raph, and anyone who loves the Ninja Turtles, (I'm talking about the cartoon writers here) should have found a way for Raph to get a bad guy too.

I mean, April got to beat up quite a few. That doesn't bother any of you that Raph didn't get a shot of being a hero, instead, he's left to be nothing more than a bully and helpless, which seems out of character.

[ToTheNines]

Raph being out in "Cousin Sid" ain't nearly as bad as Leo out in SSB part 2 (The most action packed episode of season 1 and the star of the show is near comatose).

[Revan]

I mean, April got to beat up quite a few. That doesn't bother any of you that Raph didn't get a shot of being a hero, instead, he's left to be nothing more than a bully and helpless, which seems out of character.
Raph being out in "Cousin Sid" ain't nearly as bad as Leo out in SSB part 2 (The most action packed episode of season 1 and the star of the show is near comatose).

To me, an effective movie/show/episode is one that can stir your emotions. The simple fact that we fans felt like it just didn't seem right says, to me, that these eps were effective. I'm not talking about good and bad, I'm talking effective and ineffective. Raph out comission is a downer everytime but since he's such a ruthless fighter, it makes us think, "Crap, Raph's out. The guys could really use him right about now!" and to me, that's good for a series. As long as I feel emotion while watching a show, it keeps me interested. Whether it be good or bad. Just think about tragedy films. The end isn't always what you want, but while you watch, you can tell you are watching something pretty good.
Same with Leo, the best fighter cannot fight... That one hurts. It's just one way to go. They have fought all together many times and apart many times.

Ok here's a list of episodes that I missed. Can some one tell me if I missed anything amazing?

ReflectionsOk. It's a highlights episode that explains to the audience what has happened in the series so far.
Return of the Justice Force (read the comic)Not a bad ep IMO. Characters are introduced that will appear a few more times in the series. Also, an interesting twist at the end that had me interested
HATE (Again, read the comic)The comic version is better if that's any indication. It's ok
New BloodProbably a must see. Introduces a new villian who is prominent in the series
The Entity BelowLoved it! Nuff said! Watch it.
Time TravailsAlways awesome to see Renet. She is one of my favs. I liked it.
Reality Check
Across The Universe
The Real World 1 and 2SAINW doesn't make much sense until you see the entire arch. The real world part 2 explains the whole situation. I loved TRW part 2. As a viewer you can put together the peices as you watch. Fun ep
Grudge Match (caught the first half or so of this one)Pretty important. And you get to see The ultimate ninja in his child form which is funny
Wing and a PrayerOk
Return of SavantiOK. Paleo turtles (for about 3 mins)

[Warhorse]

To me, an effective movie/show/episode is one that can stir your emotions. The simple fact that we fans felt like it just didn't seem right says, to me, that these eps were effective. I'm not talking about good and bad, I'm talking effective and ineffective. Raph out comission is a downer everytime but since he's such a ruthless fighter, it makes us think, "Crap, Raph's out. The guys could really use him right about now!" and to me, that's good for a series. As long as I feel emotion while watching a show, it keeps me interested. Whether it be good or bad. Just think about tragedy films. The end isn't always what you want, but while you watch, you can tell you are watching something pretty good.
Same with Leo, the best fighter cannot fight... That one hurts. It's just one way to go. They have fought all together many times and apart many times.


The only emotion I feel, is that I am pissed at the writers for being too lazy to find a way for Raph to fight. If Mikey could walk on two broken legs to take out a bad guy, (even if it was by accident) then by golly, Raph should have been able to fling a board from the second story window to knock out a bad guy from below. Leo's moment was indeed tragic, in how he was taken out of the game, but he still had a chance to fight off as many Foot soldier as he could before he was taken down by overwelming forces. Leo still kept his dignity and pride in tact.

But then in Cousin Sid, the writers had Mikey stick Raph in a closet? WTF? That's lazy writing! This is how it could have gone, Leo sets up the plan, but tells Raph that he must stay put because he is too injured to fight. Raph could have gotten up to reject, but fall back on the couch when he realized his body was going to be his worst enemy. So then the other three Turtles start to do their ninja magic. All the fighting below happens. Now in the current episode, the camera pans to Raph stuck in the closet complaining about Mikey. Instead of that, the time could have been used to show Raph flinging a book or one of Mikey's itching sticks to a bad guy prowling around outside the house. There, the whole team had a chance to have a hand in the fight, and it all would have been completed in the 30 minute slotted run time.

And my dissagreeing the way an episode comes out does not make me less of a TMNT fan, it's just I have a creative mind, and a critical one as well (kind of why I'm nicknamed Warhorse) and sometimes I find better ideas for the outcome of episodes, or books, or situations. Or at least in my opinion.

[Revan]

And my dissagreeing the way an episode comes out does not make me less of a TMNT fan, it's just I have a creative mind, and a critical one as well (kind of why I'm nicknamed Warhorse) and sometimes I find better ideas for the outcome of episodes, or books, or situations. Or at least in my opinion.
Of course, and I support critisism as well. If we just accepted everything we would be stuck with FF forever.:lol: I disagree with aspects as well. I suppose I was just looking for a justification for Raph's absence.

[ToTheNines]

I agree with you Neutrino. It puts you into the shoes of the other guys, like they really want Leo available as much as we do.

And thanks for the run-down on all those episodes.

[Warhorse]

Of course, and I support critisism as well. If we just accepted everything we would be stuck with FF forever.:lol: I disagree with aspects as well. I suppose I was just looking for a justification for Raph's absence.

FF???!!!???:o

Now that's a series that needs to die real quick. I would tolerate it if they were doing that version while still doing new episodes of the regular series, that way the adults have something and the kids have something.

But since they replaced the regular series for that crap, it kind of pisses me off.

[ToTheNines]

I would tolerate it if they were doing that version while still doing new episodes of the regular series, that way the adults have something and the kids have something.

That wouldn't work, but I do remember for like a month they showed one episode of FF and one of 2k3, and I was happy as a ****in clam. Why'd they can that ****?

[Scandia]

As much as I love 2k3, I will have to say that some of the episodes of season 4 are nearly insufferable. Granted, all seasons have lousy and mediocre episodes. But while some of the episodes with an ill Leonardo are very good (the first 3, Grudge Match, A Wing and A Prayer, Bad Day, Samurai Tourist), some are just awful and could have been done just as well with a healed Leo.

I'm still surprised that the solo Leonardo episode, which had a great subplot of the guy who had been turned into a monster, was still not a favorite of mine- granted, the Hun-Bishop conflict was not all that good. "I, Monster" was passable. "All Hallows Thieves" couldn't even get Leo to enjoy childhood memories- THAT bad it had gotten? And the ones where Leo is overtraining and being really demanding on others can be painful to watch. They totally overdid it.

The 3-episode arc of Leo's departure and return is amazing. And "Tale of Master Yoshi" is great too. And the others with a healed Leo are good or at least decent.

[ToTheNines]

As much as I love 2k3, I will have to say that some of the episodes of season 4 are nearly insufferable. Granted, all seasons have lousy and mediocre episodes. But while some of the episodes with an ill Leonardo are very good (the first 3, Grudge Match, A Wing and A Prayer, Bad Day, Samurai Tourist), some are just awful and could have been done just as well with a healed Leo.

I'm still surprised that the solo Leonardo episode, which had a great subplot of the guy who had been turned into a monster, was still not a favorite of mine- granted, the Hun-Bishop conflict was not all that good. "I, Monster" was passable. "All Hallows Thieves" couldn't even get Leo to enjoy childhood memories- THAT bad it had gotten? And the ones where Leo is overtraining and being really demanding on others can be painful to watch. They totally overdid it.

The 3-episode arc of Leo's departure and return is amazing. And "Tale of Master Yoshi" is great too. And the others with a healed Leo are good or at least decent.

You ticked me off for a second when you said season 4 was bad, then I realized you were a Leo fan :lol: Yea, I really couldn't stand Leonardo after Exodus, but when you think about what he prides him self in, and it really makes sense.

[Scandia]

It's not about pride. He was suffering a legitimate psychiatric injury- not to mention a physical one. I do not blame him for reacting the way he did. He needed exterior treatment to heal him.

I noticed that the episodes where he was his best in were ones where he was away from the city- Grudge Match, A Wing and a Prayer to name a couple. In fact, in Bad Day during the psychic attack he was his usual self towards Splinter.

It was not a bad idea. They just overdid it. And the episodes I disliked were not all that good otherwise anyway...but Leo being traumatized in them made things worse.

The good ones- before, during, and after the healing- are still comparable to the good ones in other seasons. And I could watch them over and over again. In fact, I watched "Tale of Master Yoshi" twice today already.

[Scandia]

Two things I noticed while watching 2k3 for the second time:

1) When Gennosuke dresses up as Rocksteady, Officer Laird points the gun at him! I think this may be symbolizing how Peter Laird ended up disliking how Bebop and Rocksteady were developed back in the OT.

2) All the girls in 2k3 kick major butt. April, Karai, Angel, Joy, Chikara, the cat girl from Usagi's universe (I'm blanking out on her name), Sydney, and the Y'Lintian girl. None of them are co-dependent or weak in any way. Compare this with Irma from the OT, whose sole interest was guys and who seemed to not have much ambition otherwise. I wish I had that kind of confidence 24/7 and not care one bit about finding a mate or what people think about my being single.

[Warhorse]

That wouldn't work, but I do remember for like a month they showed one episode of FF and one of 2k3, and I was happy as a ****in clam. Why'd they can that ****?

That's what I meant. Have two teams, one for the FF (anyone off the street can do that style of animation) and the other for the more mature Ninja Turtles, and then play them back to back like you mentioned.

But noooooooo, they have to be complete retards over at 4Kids!:roll:

[ToTheNines]

That's what I meant. Have two teams, one for the FF (anyone off the street can do that style of animation) and the other for the more mature Ninja Turtles, and then play them back to back like you mentioned.

But noooooooo, they have to be complete retards over at 4Kids!:roll:

Well, that would probably get confusing for the kids, I think. And that's who 4kids is 4 right?

[Revan]

You ticked me off for a second when you said season 4 was bad, then I realized you were a Leo fan :lol: Yea, I really couldn't stand Leonardo after Exodus, but when you think about what he prides him self in, and it really makes sense.
He did act like a child... wait he is a child. I agree that his personality change was unfortunate but as mature as he is, he's still only a teenager. And I think we can all relate to mood swings when we were teenagers.:lol: It just seemed wrong that Leo would act that way.

2) All the girls in 2k3 kick major butt. April, Karai, Angel, Joy, Chikara, the cat girl from Usagi's universe (I'm blanking out on her name), Sydney, and the Y'Lintian girl. None of them are co-dependent or weak in any way. Compare this with Irma from the OT, whose sole interest was guys and who seemed to not have much ambition otherwise. I wish I had that kind of confidence 24/7 and not care one bit about finding a mate or what people think about my being single.
Nice. Never thought about it, but you're right. the OT was old fanshioned. now it's the age of feminism:lol:

[ToTheNines]

I have a question. After Shredder was exiled, and Karai took over the foot, did they remain a secret criminal organization? Or did they go straight and focus on killing the Turtles?

[Scandia]

It's not a mood swing. It's not being a teenager. It's not angst. It's Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Trust me.

[ToTheNines]

It's not a mood swing. It's not being a teenager. It's not angst. It's Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Trust me.

It's not a stress disorder. He felt like he failed his family, and decided to be %100 serious all the time, and be a big meany too.

[Spitfire]

He was just being over protective and paranoid because he didn't want his family to get caught up in that situation.

Everyone disses the Ancient One episode for being silly but that's the point, he was showing Leo he needs to lighten up because he's becoming his own worst enemy.

[Scandia]

The anger, stress, seriousness, paranoia, angst, and all other negative emotions come from PTSD. They are consequences of it. He could not help it. It was a psychiatric injury. A battle wound not so easily seen.

And I love "The Ancient One" episode.

Splinter has never held Leo's trauma and its subsequent behavior against him. He probably sees it in a similar way he sees Donatello getting turned into a monster by that insect scratch- an illness that he recovered from.

[ToTheNines]

He was just being over protective and paranoid because he didn't want his family to get caught up in that situation.

Everyone disses the Ancient One episode for being silly but that's the point, he was showing Leo he needs to lighten up because he's becoming his own worst enemy.

It's a good episode. Yeah it's silly, but it would have sucked if as soon as he meets the Ancient One he was all serious and got right to the problem. I guess if it was totally different there could have been a more action oriented episode leading up to meeting the Ancient One at the end. I guess what people really hated about it (other than the tard yeti's) was it wasn't that funny, I personally thought it was chuckle worthy, and it led to no more annoying Leo!

[aprilsfan]

if you missed any episodes from seasons 1,2,3,4 you can see full descriptions and pictures at the official site at these links:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/newsynopses01.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/newsynopses02.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/newsynopses03.htm
http://www.ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/newsynopses04.htm

they have started the fast forward episode guide but it will not be completed for the next few months. the first 15 episodes have complete descriptions and pictures while the rest are just sneak peaks. here is that link if you are interested:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/newsynopses06.htm

and you can get a sneak peak at the lost season episodes here:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/cartoon/newsynopses05.htm

[Herr_Shredder]

The anger, stress, seriousness, paranoia, angst, and all other negative emotions come from PTSD. They are consequences of it. He could not help it. It was a psychiatric injury. A battle wound not so easily seen.

And I love "The Ancient One" episode.

Splinter has never held Leo's trauma and its subsequent behavior against him. He probably sees it in a similar way he sees Donatello getting turned into a monster by that insect scratch- an illness that he recovered from.

"Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is the term for a severe and ongoing emotional reaction to an extreme psychological trauma.[1] The latter may involve someone's actual death or a threat to the patient's or someone else's life, serious physical injury, or threat to physical and/or psychological integrity, to a degree that usual psychological defenses are incapable of coping." from Wikipedia,

It's likely Leo did suffer PTSD it makes the sense, but is odd since this is supposedly still a kids cartoon

[Scandia]

Actually, I am glad to see it portrayed in a cartoon. It was portrayed in Little House on the Prairie. Why can't it be shown in an animated venue? It happens more often than what one would wish. It does not have to be from battle wounds- it can be from a natural disaster, abuse, or even things like bullying or a bad boss/job.

[Herr_Shredder]

Actually, I am glad to see it portrayed in a cartoon. It was portrayed in Little House on the Prairie. Why can't it be shown in an animated venue? It happens more often than what one would wish. It does not have to be from battle wounds- it can be from a natural disaster, abuse, or even things like bullying or a bad boss/job.

Oh I am glad that such topics are handled here, but I wonder if the writers intended for Leo to have PTSD or if it was just coincidence

[Scandia]

I think the shell injury Leo has is a pretty big metaphor for the shell shock he has in his brain.

[tcclives23]

This is way off topic, but I'm at the end of my rope. Does anyone know where I can find TMNT (2003) banners? Thanks and any help you can give is appreciated!

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

I have a question. After Shredder was exiled, and Karai took over the foot, did they remain a secret criminal organization? Or did they go straight and focus on killing the Turtles?

You know, not much is shown about the Foot's view to the outside public really thoughout the entire show. Other than Saki's humantarian effort after the Tricerteron invansion, we really don't know what the public's perspection of Saki and his organization is. Obviously, he uses the Foot Symbol as the logo for his organization. We just don't know exactly what kind of company they really are to the outside world.

Honestly, I think Karai was so fueled with revenge that all she really concentrated on when she took over complete control of the Foot is to destroy the Turtles and Splinter. However, she has got to find a way to make some kind of profit. I really wish we knew what the organization did other than have a ninja army at it's disposal.

[Colliwog]

Could someone tell me which episode Leo got that big injury to his shell? I noticed it while watching some later episode and I though "Whoa!! What the heck happened there??"
Thank you!

[ajistheman]

leo got the injury in exodus part 2, and he was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder, i've taken quite a few psychology classes in college, and I'm dianosing it:)

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

Leo got the chunk of his shell removed by Karai, who accidentally stabbed him in 'Exodus Part II'. Karai took Leo's sword and Ch'rell kicked Leo towards her, causing him to get stabbed. Now, I don't know exactly how he was able to lose a chunk of his shell because of this but that is what happened. Leo spent a good part of Season 4 being angry with himself for what happened. Basically, he figured that if it wasn't for the Utroms, he would of failed his family. It took a lot to help him realize that he did the best he could under the circumstances. What I don't get is why Leo keeps giving Karai chances. She doesn't deserve them anymore. What honor she had left was shattered after Exodus.

[Revan]

What I don't get is why Leo keeps giving Karai chances. She doesn't deserve them anymore. What honor she had left was shattered after Exodus.
It pisses me off and all I can gather is that Leo has feelings for her. Not saying anything sexual but he may feel a bond with her due to their similar training and capabilities. Actually, his patience pays off during the lost season.

big spoiler
Karai teams up with the turtles for a final time to defeat the demon tengu shredder. After demon saki is defeated, Karai leaves the turtles alone.

[triplexxx]

It pisses me off and all I can gather is that Leo has feelings for her. Not saying anything sexual but he may feel a bond with her due to their similar training and capabilities. Actually, his patience pays off during the lost season.p
They did get a couple other positive things out of teaming with her, the end of the NYC gangster war and the rescue of the people in Beijing.
Raphael didn't have to let himself be held back from finishing her off anytime he felt like it, yet he still let himself be talked out of it. Technically, the decision to continuously give her another chance is ALL turtles' decision; so I'd say it's no personal feelings...it's just the turtles are moral enough not to kill unless it's absolutely necessary.
big spoiler
Karai teams up with the turtles for a final time to defeat the demon tengu shredder. After demon saki is defeated, Karai leaves the turtles alone.
Likely, but still to be determined for sure.

[Scandia]

It is Leonardo's honor and idealism that allows him to give Karai another chance. His realizing that she was misled by Ch'rell disguised as Oroku Saki. His realizing that she's talented and capable of good if she chooses the right path. I do not see any sexual chemistry between Leonardo and Karai. Many people confuse Karai with Lotus Blossom from the OT, whom Leo did have a crush on. But Karai was holding hands with Dr. Chaplin at the end of Season 5. And I think Leo would have given a male the exact same chance he gave Karai- out of honor and Bushido ideals.

[Revan]

I do not see any sexual chemistry between Leonardo and Karai. Many people confuse Karai with Lotus Blossom from the OT, whom Leo did have a crush on. But Karai was holding hands with Dr. Chaplin at the end of Season 5. And I think Leo would have given a male the exact same chance he gave Karai- out of honor and Bushido ideals.

True but you can't deny that Leo has some feelings for her.

Likely, but still to be determined for sure.
I suppose she may still hunt the turtles in the upcoming season but I don't see why Karai would still desire to seek any vengence. So much has happened and looking at all the destruction ch'rell caused, it seems silly to still be pissed about something like that.
And the utroms are the ones who captured ch'rell. The turtles did little to banish him when you think about it.

[triplexxx]

True but you can't deny that Leo has some feelings for her.
But as I already implied, all the turtles have honor and idealism, along with a strong sense of morality. And the decision to give her another chance is every one of theirs', and yet I don't see Michaelangelo, Raphael, or Donatello having any feelings for her, so there's no reason Leonardo should.
I suppose she may still hunt the turtles in the upcoming season but I don't see why Karai would still desire to seek any vengence. So much has happened and looking at all the destruction ch'rell caused, it seems silly to still be pissed about something like that.
And the utroms are the ones who captured ch'rell. The turtles did little to banish him when you think about it.
It does seem silly, plus Chrell actually was about to kill Karai himself in Exodus for getting in her way...and despite all this, including the fact that it was mostly the Utroms' responsibility, she still chose to take it out on the TMNT. I know Karai's intelligent and all, but she sure doesn't know how to define the term "morality" all too well.

[Revan]

But as I already implied, all the turtles have honor and idealism, along with a strong sense of morality. And the decision to give her another chance is every one of theirs', and yet I don't see Michaelangelo, Raphael, or Donatello having any feelings for her, so there's no reason Leonardo should.
Hmm, I suppose I have nothing else to say except that I flat out disagree with you. :o Ahhh a disagreement!:lol:

[Scandia]

He may feel something for her- respect, admiration, possibly even pity.

He does NOT have romantic feelings for her, though. He has shown no indication of having them. And Karai only seems to have them for Chaplin.


In another topic....

I just realized today one reason why Raphael hates the future (in Fast Forward) so much:

He is the only Turtle that has neither a good friend nor a major hobby/interest during Fast Forward.


- Splinter came with the Turtles to Fast Forward. That alone has Leonardo have his best friend. Plus Leonardo is assigned to train Cody- probably one of his greatest dreams realized.
- Donatello now has a new best friend in Cody, who shares his interests. And with all that technology, Donatello is in heaven. He may not have April or Leatherhead or Prof. Hunnicutt around- but Cody is a lot like them.
- Michelangelo may not have Klunk, but he runs into the Turtle Titan of the future. Plus with all the video games and comic books and the skating rink, he must be blissfull as well.

Poor Raphael does not have Casey or Traximus. He cannot exactly go around picking fights. He can only wisecrack so much. He went to that wrestling match and was in that race- but that seems to be about it. Out of all four Turtles, I can imagine Raph wanting to get back to regular time the most desperately.

[triplexxx]

He may feel something for her- respect, admiration, possibly even pity.

He does NOT have romantic feelings for her, though. He has shown no indication of having them. And Karai only seems to have them for Chaplin.
The "romantic" were what I was referring to. As for pity, I haven't got a doubt he feels that, I'm sure they all felt that, I would also, but after Scion of the Shredder and Prodigal Son, that went out the window. But if she leaves 'em alone after FF, maybe it'll revive that.
In another topic....

I just realized today one reason why Raphael hates the future (in Fast Forward) so much:

He is the only Turtle that has neither a good friend nor a major hobby/interest during Fast Forward.

- Splinter came with the Turtles to Fast Forward. That alone has Leonardo have his best friend. Plus Leonardo is assigned to train Cody- probably one of his greatest dreams realized.
- Donatello now has a new best friend in Cody, who shares his interests. And with all that technology, Donatello is in heaven. He may not have April or Leatherhead or Prof. Hunnicutt around- but Cody is a lot like them.
That'd definitely be a good reason to hate the future, but still a Cody's a friend and admirer to all of them. And just to clarify, Splinter allowed all the turtles to be Cody's sensei. Plus they still have their jobs with crime and all, so they're still compensated for activities.

[Scandia]

And just to clarify, Splinter allowed all the turtles to be Cody's sensei.

Did he? He did not mention it explicitly. Plus while in one episode Donatello and Cody are sparring, I do not see Donnie teaching Cody anything new. And then there's the issue with Mikey and his playing video games instead of training.

But Raph definitely seems to be enjoying FF the least.

[triplexxx]

Splinter's last line in Home Invasion: "Let us ALL resume Cody's training." That's when he mentioned it.
Maybe nothing new to Donatello, but remember Cody wasn't raised a martial artist like they were, so it's probably new to him, and martial arts require practicing similar techniques over and over to perfect them.
Yeah, Michaelangelo and his issues, but he still manages to make up for it all and then some, becoming a Tribunal acolyte, one of the team that takes down both Shredders, a full-fledged martial artist like his bros, and a graduate to Chunin.

[Scandia]

Still, that line is up to interpretation. After all, Donnie, Raph, and Mikey were practicing with Cody. But I think only Leo was teaching him new moves and techniques. In another episode, Cody is sparring with Donnie, Raph, and Mikey- while Leo watches and supervises.

[triplexxx]

In another episode, I believe it was Playtime Is Over, Michaelangleo tells Splinter, "We've been training him." Note the pronoun is We, not I, so that pretty much confirms that.

[Revan]

Splinter says that he has given leo permission to begin training cody

[triplexxx]

And at the end, he comments about how each of the turtles' strengths were combined to defeat Viral, and he says, "Let us ALL resume Cody's training." Thereby, giving them ALL permission to be sensei.

[Scandia]

I agree. It's unclear and up to interpretation. All are involved in the training, since all practice with Cody. But I think only Leo teaches new stuff.

Has Donnie, Raph, or Mikey shown teaching Cody new things regarding martial arts- as compared to say, academics or street smarts, or pop culture?

[triplexxx]

I believe a majority of Cody's training is off-screen and between episodes. All are involved in his training and are sensei to him, and it ain't no interpretation, it's a fact. I've made it pretty obviously clear. I'm right whether anyone thinks so or not.

[Revan]

I agree. It's unclear and up to interpretation. All are involved in the training, since all practice with Cody. But I think only Leo teaches new stuff.
agreed. Leo is the teacher and his brothers are the TAs

[triplexxx]

There are no TAs, the turtles got the same glory with the Tribunal, with Shredder, with Chunin, and the case is the same with Cody. They take turns being sensei.

[Revan]

nope, they are TAs

[triplexxx]

There's a difference between having a teacher with TAs and taking turns. Taking turns is what they do.

[Revan]

hey that's fine if that's what you think, but that's not whats going on

[triplexxx]

It's not what I think, it's what I know. I know when I'm right and when I'm wrong. Now I'm right. Splinter elected them all sensei and that was made perfectly clear.

[Revan]

again... believe what you want

[triplexxx]

Same to you. But my beliefs are based on what I see, hear, and know are facts.

[Revan]

as are mine my friend

[triplexxx]

Then you know what I'm saying is true, you wanna keep this going, fine by me, I enjoy this, if not, been a nice debate.

[Revan]

I'm not even debating you. (except perhaps now I may be in arguing with you about whether or not we are debating :lol: ) I've just noticed over time that my views on things tmnt are quite different than yours. I'm just saying, we see things differently which is ok

I don't see the turtles as equals. I see each one unique with different talents depending on which universe I'm looking at

[triplexxx]

I see, but I do see the turtles as equals, different but equals. And I feel they all deserve and get a similar amount of glory in their tv and movie universes. They all got to take part in Shredders' deaths, they all get a graduation, they all get elected sensei in the NT; and in the OT, they all got declared masters together at the very end as well; in the movies, they all got to kick ass pretty equally, Shredder, the Generals, and whoever else. I base my opinion on what I observe, and I'm very controversial as a person, so I never expect anyone to agree with me. But I respect opinions, so don't take it the wrong way.

[Revan]

That seems fair and happy. I just like the idea of a turtle being a superior fighter, one being a superior thinker, one being physically strongest, and one being a superior athlete.

[Sage Ninja]

I sort of agree with Neutrino. The turtles are all equals but in different catergories. However I think that Splinter did give permission to four turtles to train Cody. Although perhaps Leoanrdo is the one that takes it the most seriously. I sort of recall an instance where Mikey was teaching Cody a move but apprantly making stuff up as he went along (maybe he was feeling more lazy than usuhal) and Leo calls him on it and takes over show Cody the proper way. Or something to that affect.:P

[triplexxx]

I didn't disagree with Neutrino, I think the turtles have their differences in terms of areas of superiority too, and exactly in the areas he mentioned...but the mere fact that each of them does have an area of superiority makes them equal, that plus the turtles are equal in terms of rank and achievement.
Actually, all Michaelangelo did was give a sarcastic name to a martial arts move which he was letting Cody practice on him, no real harm in that. All Leonardo did was give a basic tip for improvement, he was just helping, not taking over. Maybe Leonardo does take it a bit more seriously, but they all do a good job at teaching...Cody's improvment is thanks to all their efforts.

[Scandia]

So if all Turtles will be equally teaching Cody, why is it only explicitly stated that "Leonardo has my blessing to train you".

I agree that all Turtles are participating in Cody's training. It is likely that each one even taught Cody one or two things. But overall Leo is the one in charge of Cody's training.

[Courk]

Sorry to jump in on the Cody's training discussion, but not having seen FF, I have to wonder: how old is he? Somehow I get the impression that he's a young teen, though that's based on nothing. Where are his parents?

I get that in the future the turtles are accepted, blah blah blah, but I'd still have to think any parent would have a bit to say about 5 "people" staying with them because their son brought them here. Even though I think it'd be nice and almost expected for them to say "Sure, stay with us since it's his fault" I still think there'd be the occasional "Don't break that!" or something. I've never seen mention of his parents, though.

[Scandia]

Cody is 14 at the beginning of FF and turns 15 in one episode.

IIRC, his parents passed away. Possibly in an accident.