*NEWS Wow* Trademark holder sues Pittsburgh video store over Ninja Turtles mural

[VaughnMichael]

http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/20070502BW_Mutant_450.jpg
Cowabunga, dude!
A video store owner is being sued by the company that holds the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles trademark because he painted a mural with similar turtles on his store and used the images in advertising fliers.

Mirage Studios Inc. of Northampton, Mass., which owns the trademark, filed the suit Monday in federal court in Pittsburgh.

Milton Barr, 20, who operates two MIB Ninja Entertainment Stores in Pittsburgh, said the suit is an example of a big company picking on a little guy.

"Under the First Amendment, I have the right to paint whatever I want, as long as I don't make money off it," Barr said.

But University of Pittsburgh law professor Michael Madison said that people cannot use images if they are likely to be confused with those under trademark.

"There is an idea of a free speech defense, but it's very narrow, and it almost never applies when you're using a trademark to advance your business," Madison said.

Barr said he believed it was OK to use some version of the turtle images, as long as they were somewhat different from the originals.
FROM THE PITTSBURGH POST-GAZETTE (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07122/782600-53.stm)
CLICK HERE IF YA DON'T BELIEVE ME (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/editorial/s_505716.html)

WHAT I THINK: So wow I can't say that I'm shocked I'm actully visiting pittsburgh,p.a. right now so lets hope they didn't take it down yet because this thing was beautiful! Seriously illegal or not it was of the old toon tmnt, shredder, krang, and others.
I agree with the the law on this one this guy really is trying to draw in attention via the TMNT beautiful art or not.
And if the guy really knew anything he'd know that Mirage isn't a Big Company they're just as much the little guy as anyone else.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Well that's...interesting... *scratches head*

[Jester]

Man...don't mess with Mirage.

But does the "But it's not 'exactly' the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles..." defense hold water?

[Revan]

total bummer for the owner. but the law is the law :ohwell:

[VaughnMichael]

Man...don't mess with Mirage.

But does the "But it's not 'exactly' the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles..." defense hold water?
uh yeah he just doesnt want to get sued by mirage take a look at the image I posted..
The funniest part of the article is how they call Splinter a wolf! hahahah:lol:

[VaughnMichael]

come on people this is huge news!

[Jester]

Hey, I posted my say...but I wish I could see a bigger picture.

"an adult version of the theme?" This guy must not have read Mirage's older work.

Do my eyes deceive me or does the mural have the phrase "Go ninja, go ninja, go!" Vanilla Ice should get in on this...they're stealing his lyrics.

[VaughnMichael]

Hey, I posted my say...but I wish I could see a bigger picture.
if it's still there I will try and take some over this weekend this guy has images all around the store! He's seriously full of it if he thinks he can get away with it. I'm shocked Mirage even found out I wonder who told them.
The southside of Pittsburgh is pretty obscure trust me I grew up there lol.

[odupianist]

Hell, if I was Mirage, I'd consider it free advertising.

[Jester]

If it's still there I will try and take some over this weekend this guy has images all around the store! He's seriously full of it if he thinks he can get away with it. I'm shocked Mirage even found out I wonder who told them.
The southside of Pittsburgh is pretty obscure trust me I grew up there lol.
*taps his foot and whistles innocently*

Seriously I didn't do it, but I can understand Mirage suing.

[iris]

Seems warranted... whether he loves TMNT or not, the guy is using TMNT to attract attention to his company... a company with "ninja" in its name. He could have done it in such a way that it was legal (e.g. ads saying hey you can buy TMNT stuff at my store), but instead he's going the weasel route. I have no pity. It's not like Mirage runs around filing lawsuits on just anyone; they probably sent him a letter asking him to stop the infringement beforehand.

Milton Barr, 20, who operates two MIB Ninja Entertainment Stores in Pittsburgh, said the suit is an example of a big company picking on a little guy.
Mirage is a big company???

[Jester]

Freakin huge...oh wait...it's called Mirage because the art tables were a freakin' KITCHEN TABLE!!! The "company" is a Mirage...dingus.
Barr, not you Iris...:D

[ajistheman]

someone told me (please note that I take what this aqueinetance says with a grain of salt) that if you change an image 10% you can get away with it. Does anyone have any info to debunk that or back it up?
and on a side note, i definately think that the painting looks cool. I'd definately shop there

[Mecha Cow]

Eh, I don't think this is a big enough deal to sue over, but the guy should have known better. It has nothing to do with free speech, this is a pretty blatant ripoff.

[Cascadia]

Oh geez....We do have the freedom of speech. However, Mirage is correct in suing the poor video store owner in Pittsburgh because they have the copyright rights of TMNT images. If the store owner did not use the images for a business, he might have been alright. But he used the images to promote his businesses in Pittsburgh. If he does not meet the initial demands of Mirage, he could be out of alot of money. Before he planned to get the mural and advertisements done, he should have investigated about the laws on free speech (the 1st amendment).

[CyberCubed]

I don't see the big deal either.

Did this really piss Peter Laird off THAT much?

[VaughnMichael]

it's not a matter of him using them it's a matter of him using them to his advantage to make a proffit even though he says he's not.
It's one of the first things I saw when I came into the city and thought wow thats awsome I wonder what the store is do they sell tmnt?
And obviously they don't I also said to myself wow I'm shocked that was allowed.
What you guys don't see is the front of the store whats being shown in the image is the back side the parking lot.
The front has Splinter, Krang, & April O' Neil on it.
He doesn't own these characters and he shouldn't be using them for his business to turn a proffit.:roll:

[Ambush]

Take a look at the turtle poses on the main site (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/) Pay special atention to the movie banner on top and the new toon ad for teletoon on down the page. Compare to his wall.


This ass is blatanty ripping them off even the pose is basicly the samw

you loos stupid 1st amendment won't save your ass at all.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Yeah that was the first thing I noticed when I saw the picture. The only difference is the bandanas are gray. That's not enough to get him off the hook. Heck, the only thing that looks remotely original is the Foot soldier-- if you can call it that. Looks more like the bastard son of Spiderman from this angle....

[Revan]

This issue isn't the pose. It's the fact that he clearly used copywritten turtles to further his own business practice. And I agree the first amendment should not save him. But I don't want to see the guy get sued up the anus. He should be forced to remove the images above his store and apologize or something. my opinion

[Jester]

I can agree with Neutrino, I'm sure Mirage would drop the monitary suit if Barr just removed the images.

[VaughnMichael]

I can agree with Neutrino, I'm sure Mirage would drop the monitary suit if Barr just removed the images.
likewize but I don't think he's going to I think thats what the problem is because he doesn't see this as a problem.
People go "oh whats the harm in him using these characters" the harm is that millions of others have had to pay to use the turtles on their adds so why should this guy get away with it scott free.:dead:

[johnnyblaze]

^exactly, you hit the nail on the head I think

[Spitfire]

If this doesn't prove Laird is a money hungry a-hole then what does?

[johnnyblaze]

its his property so he's in the complete right to say something. besides--the article said that Mirage sent him 2 letters warning him to cease and desist before they filed the lawsuit. that is the guy's fault for not taking it seriously and ignoring it

[Aries10]

I am not saying what the guy should or should not do, but it will be a shame for the mural to go.

[Spitfire]

its his property so he's in the complete right to say something. besides--the article said that Mirage sent him 2 letters warning him to cease and desist before they filed the lawsuit. that is the guy's fault for not taking it seriously and ignoring it

Laird could not be an a-hole and have a grin on his face that someone liked his property enough to do that.

Instead he thinks "Money money money" And not "Oh that is some wonderful art I'm honored someone did that with my creation"

If Eastman was in charge of Mirage I bet he wouldn't do that.

[iris]

If this doesn't prove Laird is a money hungry a-hole then what does?
Well, no, this doesn't prove that. A. The copyright needs to be defended. B. Defending a copyright costs money. C. Who better to pay for defense than the people who try to infringe on that copyright?

[Jester]

Laird could not be an a-hole and have a grin on his face that someone liked his property enough to do that.

Instead he thinks "Money money money" And not "Oh that is some wonderful art I'm honored someone did that with my creation"

If Eastman was in charge of Mirage I bet he wouldn't do that.
Yeah, damn copywrite holder sticking it to the little guy. How dare Peter Laird defend his intelectual property. FIEND!!

[ajistheman]

what the guy did was illegal, and if HE doesn't realize it, then you think someone that he TOLD he was going to do this (before he started the painting project obviously) would have told him it is illegal.
He doesn't stand a chance, the 1st amendment does NOT back up stealing trademarked images

[Spitfire]

I don't know I read stuff like this and it rubs me the wrong way. Not Mirage as a whole comes off as an ass just Laird comes off as an ass in the first place. If Laird is going to tag this dude then he should tag all the bootleggers, fan made action figure auctions on Ebay, and people who do TMNT tags. But he doesn't, the only reason he's nailing this guy is because he's easier to catch and the guys making some money. If he cared about copyright infringement he would be trying to stop the above listed things as well. He probably also wants it ripped down because it promotes the old toon which he would most likely piss on if he could.

But "We don't understand anything" so what do I know.

[Revan]

If this doesn't prove Laird is a money hungry a-hole then what does?

It's his so he can do whatever he wants with it. Suing would be his way of getting paid the money he deserves for his property.

Money hungry and a-hole are a bit harsh. Wanting to get paid is different than being an @$$hole

[FearlessLeader]

Personally I think the kid who made the mural is a jerk.

If he really respected and loved the property he would not be trying to steal from it. He would respect the creators and the owners.

He is the money grubbing a-hole who is trying to make a buck off of someone else's hard work and years of dedication.

As for Laird... I highly doubt he is the mastermind behind this. I am certain that the Mirage legal team is the one handling this and that while I am certain he is aware of the case happening, I doubt he is sitting at home stomping his feet and waiting the mural to come down. It's some well paid lawyers who's jobs are to police the Mirage brand that I am certain are going after this guy.

Also considering none of us work at Mirage we DON'T know what's going on and maybe some people around here should realize that.

[Cascadia]

It was good that Mirage sent the business owner several letters indicating that he needs to remove his large murals on the building. I do not think that Mirage wanted sue right off the bat. But due to that the business owner did not take the letters seriously, he is in deep trouble. If he wanted to use the images for his business, he would have to pay a large sum of money to Mirage.

[iris]

I don't know I read stuff like this and it rubs me the wrong way. Not Mirage as a whole comes off as an ass just Laird comes off as an ass in the first place. If Laird is going to tag this dude then he should tag all the bootleggers, fan made action figure auctions on Ebay, and people who do TMNT tags. But he doesn't, the only reason he's nailing this guy is because he's easier to catch and the guys making some money. If he cared about copyright infringement he would be trying to stop the above listed things as well.

Well as you point out, Mirage lets this stuff slip most of the time. Especially when it's "fan stuff." If they really wanted to, Mirage has the right to shut down every fan site that uses official images and stop people from posting fan art. Other companies do it all the time. So Mirage forgoes all that but chooses to take on a pretty damn egregious case, and that means Laird's an ass?

[johnnyblaze]

Laird could not be an a-hole and have a grin on his face that someone liked his property enough to do that.

Instead he thinks "Money money money" And not "Oh that is some wonderful art I'm honored someone did that with my creation"

If Eastman was in charge of Mirage I bet he wouldn't do that.
My ass he wouldn't, Eastman would probably do the same thing considering this is business they are dealing with. Its one thing to be a fan and to make a drawing for your own pleasure but this guy is using his characters, without his permission, to advertise his store and his products and Laird is supposed to look the other way? Come one now, be realistic.

[johnnyblaze]

what the guy did was illegal, and if HE doesn't realize it, then you think someone that he TOLD he was going to do this (before he started the painting project obviously) would have told him it is illegal.
He doesn't stand a chance, the 1st amendment does NOT back up stealing trademarked images
not to mention they warned him twice that they don't want him using their characters.

[johnnyblaze]

I don't know I read stuff like this and it rubs me the wrong way. Not Mirage as a whole comes off as an ass just Laird comes off as an ass in the first place. If Laird is going to tag this dude then he should tag all the bootleggers, fan made action figure auctions on Ebay, and people who do TMNT tags. But he doesn't, the only reason he's nailing this guy is because he's easier to catch and the guys making some money. If he cared about copyright infringement he would be trying to stop the above listed things as well. He probably also wants it ripped down because it promotes the old toon which he would most likely piss on if he could.

But "We don't understand anything" so what do I know.Well the truth is customizing usually does fly under the radar just like how most companies (including Mirage) don't make big deals over customs or their products being sold on sites like ebay or through garage sales (and if you think about it yeah, it should technically be illegal to resell items through garage sales and ebay). Its hardly a clear cut answer so you have to pick and choose your battles. Obviously this guy is using his characters to bring in a **** load more money than some dude on ebay so yeah, Mirage is gonna say something.

Its business first and formost and its not like they kicked his door in throwing law suits his way. They told him straight up why they wanted him to knock it off and they have the legal right to protect their property/investment as they see fit. At its core yeah, it is business. Why is Peter Laird thinking in terms of what his property is worth make him an asshole? He would be an asshole if he did what you suggested and attacked the little guy in his basement who made a custom figure. Is it fair? Not all the time but like I said, you have to pick and choose your battles.

[Jester]

Uh, Johnny, you could just edit posts....

[johnnyblaze]

Yup, I know

[Spitfire]

Oh side note I'm not defending this guy I think he's a moron I just find it funny there's stuff making way more money of Laird's turtles then this dudes wall doodles and he lets that fly.

[TheShowstoppa]

Just for the record - Yes, he can have that mural as long as it's not to advertise his business. However, the fact that he's using the mural in order to attract business and also putting the characters on fliers to attract even more business is indeed a copyright infringment. Mirage (not just Laird in general - He does have legal people who usually take care of this for him. Which also means it might not have been laird's decision to sue.) has every right to sue this guy. If he wants to use the mural as a means of expression without it holding any meaning to his business - Then it is an act of the first amendment. Right now though - He's breaking copyright laws.

[Cascadia]

nicely spoken. :-) You are absolutely correct..if he painted the mural for enjoyment that is fine. But he is using to promote his business that is where he stepped over a very thin line in terms of copyright laws.

[Roseangelo]

This strikes me as veryvery interesting.

First of all, Mirage as every right to file this suit. And that guy is going to get nowhere with the "Big company picking on the little guy" argument, because we all know Mirage isn't a big company.

However, this can't be the only shop in the country using TMNT images. I find it interesting that they found out about this guy and actually took action against him. I mean, I don't recall ever hearing of Mirage filing a suit against someone like this (which doesn't mean they haven't).

Very, very interesting.

[johnnyblaze]

I wonder who found out and how. I had to have been like his legal team like TheShowstoppa said but I wonder if it was discovered by accident or if someone pointed the company out to them

[iris]

This strikes me as veryvery interesting.

First of all, Mirage as every right to file this suit. And that guy is going to get nowhere with the "Big company picking on the little guy" argument, because we all know Mirage isn't a big company.

However, this can't be the only shop in the country using TMNT images. I find it interesting that they found out about this guy and actually took action against him. I mean, I don't recall ever hearing of Mirage filing a suit against someone like this (which doesn't mean they haven't).

Very, very interesting.
Maybe other shops have TMNT art up, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything this flagrant. Plus, betcha most people wouldn't put up a fight if asked to remove it, so it wouldn't become a public issue like this.

[Murphy]

Ho-ho, this is a pretty funny thread. My thanks to whomever it was who sent me this link.

Reira's the one who's come closest to the truth of the matter. Hi and thanks.

First, on the subject of this lawsuit. Some of you understand this, some of you don't. The store owner not only has murals on the front and rear of his store, his business is also called something to the effect of "Ninja 99" or something. Clearly, in my opinion, the guy is capitalizing off the Turtles for his own economic benefit. He was sent two Cease and Desist letters, both of which he ignored. This is not about suing him and making money off him, which is not what is being done, it's about protecting one's copyrights and trademarks. Mirage spends tens of thousands of dollars a year filing and enforcing its marks. It's the sad state of the world we're in that one has to do this but that's life. And business.

Two, Mirage indeed goes after people who sell illegal merchandise on eBay. Happens all the time. Scout's honor.

Three, it's funny how some of you equate TMNT with Peter Laird, like they're one and the same, or like he's some Oz-like character who watches over and controls every little aspect of his intellectual property and business. While Pete may be the sole owner, and while he does take an active interest in many things, he has a crack legal team and CEO who watch out for his (and the company's) interests. Imagine that.

Four, I was going to say something about this a-hole business, but it's just too stupid to respond to.

Thanks for "listening."

[Masked Ninja]

I think the part that's making Mirage go after him is the image is used on his business fliers. That's when it stops being fun fanart and starts being Turtle-like-characters-exploited-as-advertising-for-his-business.

And the "changing the characters" thing shows to me that he knows it's wrong and is trying to be "technically" right, so that he can barely get away with it.

My issue is not the use of the Turtles, but the images look like the official 2k3 publicity art, style and all. He just changed minor details. It's like turning Garfield blue and giving him square ears and claiming that's an "original character." Not gonna fly.

My question, though, is why is Laird's name specifically coming up here? Why is he a moneygrubbing jerk specifically when it's the whole company's problem? (and, with the state of the franchise right now as far as comic sales, can you really blame him if he were as bad as accused? Mirage may be bigger than this guy's store, but it's still a tiny company and probably only staying afloat with toy sales)

EDIT: Ninja'd by Murphy. Thanks, dude. :trazz:

[Revan]

THANK YOU MURPHY
And I praise you for not even dignifying the a-hole remark with a response!

[Murphy]

Five, this idea of changing something 10 or 15% in order to place an image in some sort of "free use" copyright purgatory is complete nonsense.

[Cascadia]

Thank you Murphy for your insights on this issue.

[Mecha Cow]

The dude is perfectly aware of what he's doing anyway, he shouldn't even be dragging up 'free speech' or 'free use' to begin with.

[Bry]

"Under the First Amendment, I have the right to paint whatever I want, as long as I don't make money off it," Barr said.
...he says, as he's printing ads for his store featuring characters he doesn't have the rights to.

It's funny, the first thing I thought of when I saw this was comic stores. The Silver Snail here in Toronto has its entire storefront painted nicely with the images of several comic book characters, as many comic shops similarly decorate their stores, and to my knowledge hasn't gotten into legal trouble over the use of trademarked characters.

The difference here being, of course, that they're using those characters' images to promote their respective publishers' products, which are sold in the store. That doesn't seem to be remotely the case here - this guy's using the image of the TMNT as if they were mascots for his video store. Big difference.

In short? Dude's an idiot.

[Cascadia]

I do not know the laws in Canada but you are right about comic book stores. The products that they are advertising are from the various comic companies that they are advertising. They have rights to display them.

[Aries10]

He was sent two Cease and Desist letters, both of which he ignored.
It seems as if he is ignoring the letters to get the publicity. Because he did ignore them his store has made it into the newspapers making more people aware of the fact it exists.

[bullet]

though he might get his ass busted for being an utter moron (the 15% thing made me laugh so hard)...i gotta admit that homemade mike mask looks awesome.

[odupianist]

Three, it's funny how some of you equate TMNT with Peter Laird, like they're one and the same, or like he's some Oz-like character who watches over and controls every little aspect of his intellectual property and business. While Pete may be the sole owner, and while he does take an active interest in many things, he has a crack legal team and CEO who watch out for his (and the company's) interests. Imagine that.

Did anyone else see PL kind of waddling behind a green curtain and some computers voicing a giant Simultaneous like head of a generic TMNT?:)

[VaughnMichael]

Ho-ho, this is a pretty funny thread. My thanks to whomever it was who sent me this link.

Reira's the one who's come closest to the truth of the matter. Hi and thanks.

First, on the subject of this lawsuit. Some of you understand this, some of you don't. The store owner not only has murals on the front and rear of his store, his business is also called something to the effect of "Ninja 99" or something. Clearly, in my opinion, the guy is capitalizing off the Turtles for his own economic benefit. He was sent two Cease and Desist letters, both of which he ignored. This is not about suing him and making money off him, which is not what is being done, it's about protecting one's copyrights and trademarks. Mirage spends tens of thousands of dollars a year filing and enforcing its marks. It's the sad state of the world we're in that one has to do this but that's life. And business.

Two, Mirage indeed goes after people who sell illegal merchandise on eBay. Happens all the time. Scout's honor.

Three, it's funny how some of you equate TMNT with Peter Laird, like they're one and the same, or like he's some Oz-like character who watches over and controls every little aspect of his intellectual property and business. While Pete may be the sole owner, and while he does take an active interest in many things, he has a crack legal team and CEO who watch out for his (and the company's) interests. Imagine that.

Four, I was going to say something about this a-hole business, but it's just too stupid to respond to.

Thanks for "listening."
Thanks for posting Murph and yeah this guy seems like a real jerk I'm in pgh right now like I said and this guys art while nice and all is waaaaay out of hand. I wish I had a photo of the front of the store to show everyone it's way worse than that back lot photo.
Did anyone else see PL kind of waddling behind a green curtain and some computers voicing a giant Simultaneous like head of a generic TMNT?:)
hahah yes!:lol:

[iris]

Did anyone else see PL kind of waddling behind a green curtain and some computers voicing a giant Simultaneous like head of a generic TMNT?:)
Hmm... well, I wasn't gonna say anything, but now that you've mentioned it... :sweatdro:

;)

[ajistheman]

wow, murph you answered my question. I feel honored. I'm, also, glad you said this, because when my "aquentance" (I don't say friend, because I don't like him, friend of a friend I should say, I guess) said that I told him he is wrong, and he disagreed with me. So i'm glad you gave me the answer:D

[Ninjinister]

uh yeah he just doesnt want to get sued by mirage take a look at the image I posted..
The funniest part of the article is how they call Splinter a wolf! hahahah:lol:

David Spade called him a fox :lol:

[Kendamu]

likewize but I don't think he's going to I think thats what the problem is because he doesn't see this as a problem.
People go "oh whats the harm in him using these characters" the harm is that millions of others have had to pay to use the turtles on their adds so why should this guy get away with it scott free.:dead:
And I think it's that reasoning that finally convinced me completely that it was okay for Mirage to sue him.

A gajillion other companies who have used the TMNT for advertising had to pay for it. Back in the late 80s and early 90s they preobably had to pay a lot for the right to use the TMNT. For this guy to do it for free wouldn't be fair to those who legitimately paid for it.

[Roseangelo]

Hmmm. Ignoring not one, but two cease and desist letters just ain't cool.

[GK Punk]

Yeah. And I'm sure if this guy had a mini TMNT Mural IN STORE, along with other movie related Murals it wouldn't even be a problem. But even I have to say, I think he just stepped in to it a little too far with this.

[VaughnMichael]

David Spade called him a fox :lol:
ahahah & Renett thinks he looks like a Dog.:lol:
And I think it's that reasoning that finally convinced me completely that it was okay for Mirage to sue him.
A gajillion other companies who have used the TMNT for advertising had to pay for it. Back in the late 80s and early 90s they preobably had to pay a lot for the right to use the TMNT. For this guy to do it for free wouldn't be fair to those who legitimately paid for it.
Exactly
Hmmm. Ignoring not one, but two cease and desist letters just ain't cool.
Exactly...this guy thinks he's some tough ass then he's gonna whine and try to play it off as the little guy.
I wish I had the video clip of him on tv from lastnight he's so smug he had the nerve to say "well my designs are more adult" what an idiot seriously if I was Mirage a comment like that would just fuel me more to make the tmnt series done by them shine even brighter in the public eye.
I really do hope this becomes a big issue because maybe then people will really understand this issue and a bit more about mirage.
Yeah. And I'm sure if this guy had a mini TMNT Mural IN STORE, along with other movie related Murals it wouldn't even be a problem. But even I have to say, I think he just stepped in to it a little too far with this.
Yes he's really gone to far I saw this and thought it was really nice but I had no idea what the store even was at first I thought maybe a comic shop! or a Pizza shop! but no it's a video store I also had no idea this goober was using images in the adds for the store I think thats more the big issue than anything.

[Spitfire]

Two, Mirage indeed goes after people who sell illegal merchandise on eBay. Happens all the time. Scout's honor.
The selling happens all the time, I see lots of illegal merch go up. I've hawked Ebay alot recently for TMNT comics. If you guys don't catch it maybe you should hire me onto your legal team. And don't get me started on bootleg toys.

he has a crack legal team and CEO who watch out for his (and the company's) interests. Imagine that.
He hired them, meaning he agrees with their methods. Obviously his legal team doesn't do a very good job when there's worse things out there taking money from Mirage then this guys paintings. I agree the guys an idiot but why isn't Mirage busting bootleg rings. Or are those little things that slip under the radar and us fans never hear about?

Four, I was going to say something about this a-hole business, but it's just too stupid to respond to.
Matters of opinion maybe but a mans actions define him. It's not to stupid to respond to you just can't think of anything to say.

I enjoy your artwork and respect you as an artist but I won't kiss your ass like everyone else here does. In my eyes your still a person and if I disagree with you I got no problem letting you know. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to disrespect you I just don't have a problem speaking out.

[jeff the cheff]

Damn laws.

You really don't think Mirage is a big company? Yea they started small....but owning the rights to TMNT is pretty big...they've been making millions for 20 years. The point the guy is trying to make is that millionaires from Mirage are suing a guy who is trying to run a movie store...so I think he is definitely right in saying its the big guy picking on the little guy.

Although they should be suing him. It's not to try to get money off him, I'm sure he'll be fine.

[Aignatius]

Sigh... at the other end is someone who has had to deal with at least three copyright violations on getting art stolen and used by someone else for commercial purposes. Putting the stuff on merchandise, and magazine covers, and making money off it while the artist gets nada, because it was stolen.

As a graphic designer and an artist, I can completely identify with the owners of said copyrighted material wanting to go after people who are using it without their authorization. Regardless of how big their company is. Whether it's Disney or some little person like me, it makes no difference. It's the principle. And who is picking on who, here? More like self defense to me.

This isn't about free speech, it's about stealing.

Ticks me off to hear about this stuff going on and then have people who don't know anything about copyright law or the efforts that people make to produce a design or artwork, story, comic character, what have you-- to call those who are trying to protect their intellectual property a-holes.

[bullet]

sure, they could be hiring more people to filter through ebay but i think just going by logic here, someone blatantly thieving TMNT to boost his business seems to be a much higher priority. i'm sure they had leads, i doubt the legal team goes around with telescopes seeking out any and all infringements on their copyright. i mean...it's not exactly possible to catch everything that flows in and out of ebay on a daily basis. i mean, manpower can only go so far. the guy's obviously a moron, because he's not at all trying to hide the fact that he's illegally advertising with copyrighted material. seriously, he had all sorts of signs and fliers etc. he's pretty much on his rooftop shouting out his challenge to mirage at the top of his lungs, like "so sue me, i'm only violating 85% of your copyright."

[Spitfire]

it's not exactly possible to catch everything that flows in and out of ebay on a daily basis. i mean, manpower can only go so far.

In less then a hour I could go through 13 pages of Ebay, and that's when I'm looking closely. They don't need to look at every auction, they need to look at toys. They click on toys and the page count drops from over 50 to less to then 20. Now the movie is still hot so when I see 56 pages of TMNT on Ebay now I know in a month or two it'll be less.

You know companies like Google pay people to go through their search engines and censor the porn sites. That way when people do searches with filters on porn won't come up.

One of my good friends had two neighbors who did that, that's all they did and they were the ones in charge of it. That's two people doing a job for a massive search engine. Lots of manpower my foot. One person could check everyday. And once they check all the auctions once they just need to check the new ones. The blunt of the work is in checking it all the first time.

[Wes]

Going after illegal TMNT merchandise on eBay? Say it ain't so! :o

Seriously, seeing as how they cost about the same as actual official toys (especially with shipping), the only person who would buy a bootleg TMNT toy on eBay is a fan who already loves the Turtles and regularly buys the licensed merch as well. I love me some bootleg Turtles. ;)

And I dunno, I can understand the guy not wanting to "take the mural down," considering that it's pretty cool and that doing so would really entail painting over it, since it's on brick and all. But I can also understand Mirage suing him, because he completely ignored two C&D orders. I don't know if it would have helped, but maybe contacting them before things got to this point would have been a better plan.

Of course, seeing as how the store owner apparently changed the characters' appearances slightly because he anticipated future legal trouble, perhaps not doing it at all (or painting something else; a generic group of ninja warriors would have been just as cool) would have been even smarter.

[TheShowstoppa]

Ho-ho, this is a pretty funny thread. My thanks to whomever it was who sent me this link.

Reira's the one who's come closest to the truth of the matter. Hi and thanks.

First, on the subject of this lawsuit. Some of you understand this, some of you don't. The store owner not only has murals on the front and rear of his store, his business is also called something to the effect of "Ninja 99" or something. Clearly, in my opinion, the guy is capitalizing off the Turtles for his own economic benefit. He was sent two Cease and Desist letters, both of which he ignored. This is not about suing him and making money off him, which is not what is being done, it's about protecting one's copyrights and trademarks. Mirage spends tens of thousands of dollars a year filing and enforcing its marks. It's the sad state of the world we're in that one has to do this but that's life. And business.

Two, Mirage indeed goes after people who sell illegal merchandise on eBay. Happens all the time. Scout's honor.

Three, it's funny how some of you equate TMNT with Peter Laird, like they're one and the same, or like he's some Oz-like character who watches over and controls every little aspect of his intellectual property and business. While Pete may be the sole owner, and while he does take an active interest in many things, he has a crack legal team and CEO who watch out for his (and the company's) interests. Imagine that.

Four, I was going to say something about this a-hole business, but it's just too stupid to respond to.

Thanks for "listening."

Holy sh*t... didn't I JUST say something to this extent?


Just for the record - Yes, he can have that mural as long as it's not to advertise his business. However, the fact that he's using the mural in order to attract business and also putting the characters on fliers to attract even more business is indeed a copyright infringment. Mirage (not just Laird in general - He does have legal people who usually take care of this for him. Which also means it might not have been laird's decision to sue.) has every right to sue this guy. If he wants to use the mural as a means of expression without it holding any meaning to his business - Then it is an act of the first amendment. Right now though - He's breaking copyright laws.


Yup... God I HATE it when people ignore me when I'm right. (All except that one person.) Thanks Murph. (even though I thought I did hit the nail very damn close to the head.) You're not a-holes. I understand fully what was going on... however - People want to take their constitution to places they don't understand.

[Time Mistress]

Dang! I live in Pittsburgh and I had no idea this was going on! But this is city where the north side never knows what the south side is doing half the time. I haven't even been down to East Carson St. in about a year. I can't recall if I ever saw this guy's mural or not. I vaguely recall just his Shredder one I think. But what this guy is doing is just plain wrong, especially after ignoring two warnings. Thanks for posting Mr. Murphy to set the record straight.

[dejawolf]

you think its annoying when people ignore you when you're right?
then you should not try having people "come up with" ideas that you told them about hours, or days before.