I have good news and/or bad news.

[tortugapower]

Fast Forward is done. One of the partners in the shows production has decided to not go ahead with the planned new episodes that would have comprised the next season, I will not say who or why for now.

So for the moment there will be no Space Usagi showing up, let alone any of the other things that were planned, which I will not reveal here.

So what happens to the show? It's not canceled, the show will likely be re-developed, your guess is as good as mine as to what the result may be... but either way production will not resume until sometime later this year.

So it's not the end of the world - but it may come as bad news for some.

[Roseangelo]

Can you elaborate some?

I have an older source saying there would be 10 FF episodes next season and a recent source (as in, within the last few days) saying that season 2 of FF was canceled, but that there'd still be 10 more episodes. But rereading the recent source I see that she may have misrelayed information (because the rest of what she said goes along with what you've just said) or I may be misinterpreting it.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

"Redeveloped"..... I gotta be honest, this doesn't bode well for the franchise's run on TV. This doesn't sound good at all-- the uncertainty is what's really buggin' me...

[tortugapower]

Can you elaborate some?

I'm not sure what more I can say, those 10 episodes you mentioned were the next season, and are likely not going to happen since production was just halted.

There most likely will be more Turtles in some form or another though.

[Roseangelo]

"Redeveloped"..... I gotta be honest, this doesn't bode well for the franchise's run on TV. This doesn't sound good at all-- the uncertainty is what's really buggin' me...

I agree the lack of solid information is not comforting, but the information I have says nothing about TMNT being canceled, ONLY Fast Forward being canceled. Someone involved with it wants to get the hell away from the concept ASAP and have the Turtles return to a normal New York.

The info I have also speaks of the lost season airing as part of next season (the other "part of" the season being those 10 FF episodes, which apparently we aren't getting at all...). But I'm now confused about some of the info I was given. I might have to send an email for some clarity.

[Courk]

I haven't watched much FF for a number of reasons, one of which being that I'm just beginning to watch the 2k3 series in the first place and it makes more sense to start at the beginning. I was also a bit concerned about a promotion for FF that said something along the lines of it being funnier than ever. One of the reasons I wanted to watch the 2k3 series in the first place was that I heard it wasn't a little kiddie tee-hee ha ha show, so saying that FF was funny didn't boost my desire to see it.

So it's being redeveloped. The series already apparently went for a funnier angle with FF, could they be going back to the original tone? I realize there's a wide variety of things that can be considered "redevelopment," but I'm going to let a small part of me hope that it resumes a darker tone. I think the rest of me will be relieved just to hear that production has resumed.

Oh, by the way, that avatar is adorable, tortuga!

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

I agree the lack of solid information is not comforting, but the information I have says nothing about TMNT being canceled, ONLY Fast Forward being canceled. Someone involved with it wants to get the hell away from the concept ASAP and have the Turtles return to a normal New York.

Well, I suppose I can take solace in that information...

[ZariusTwo]

Could'nt they rework the Space Usagi storyline to fit into the redeveloped season? Alternate reality, similar to Usagi's own etc, the nature of how the character was introduced does'nt mean it's impossible.

Was this 4Kids mandate or the guy wanting to get away from the concept? (Which HAS to be Laird, since he's the head guy, unless he's listening to some veteran yes-men on what to do what's better for the franchise), maybe that's why there were episodes like "The Journal" and "Timing Is Everything" testing how the current animation would look on a contemporary setting..

[VaughnMichael]

Can you elaborate some?

I have an older source saying there would be 10 FF episodes next season and a recent source (as in, within the last few days) saying that season 2 of FF was canceled, but that there'd still be 10 more episodes. But rereading the recent source I see that she may have misrelayed information (because the rest of what she said goes along with what you've just said) or I may be misinterpreting it.
uh yeah I just talked to Dan over @ ninjaturtles.com about this and the toy line yesterday.
> I do have a question though I wrote to Playmates awhile back and
> they told me that the next batch of Fast Forward figures may not be
> coming out till 2008 if at all is this true?

I haven't seen any new FF designs, so I'm sure it's true.

> I just thought that to be a bit odd not having anything to promote
> the show with

They're still going to be doing toys, so there will be some cross
marketing, but yeah - no direct FF promo. That said, it's certainly
possible they're working on stuff I haven't seen.
So yeah and remember paula over @ playmates toys wrote back to me saying no Fast Forward toys are being released untill 2008 if at all.
I really wonder whats going on....4kids has really screwed everything up I enjoy Fast Forward it's ok I liked 2k3 better they should have left well enough alone they try to hard and think somethings wrong it's just the fact that they were giving the show a bad time slot it has nothing to do with the turtles being popular or not...also playmates thought the line was doing poorly yes morons your sales went down because you kept making endless turtle variants no one wants it's the same damn reason the 80's & 90's line went down hill kids do not want the same character over and over and over in a differnt outfit you see how many differnt colored batman figures there are and you see how they sit and collect dust on the shelves people seriously don't pay enough attention to whats wrong.
:roll:

[Buslady]

I won't believe it until I see it. I just want the previous style of our heros BACK!!! I want those awesome stories, character development and everybody back the way they were not reverting and turning into immature little brats like they are in FF. They'd lost all their maturing with this FF crap. ESPECIALLY..my hero. :(

Hey maybe a series in the same awesome quality of the movie and in CGI and all that...okay im dreaming...that Raph was hot, I'd like to see him MORE!

[VaughnMichael]

Could'nt they rework the Space Usagi storyline to fit into the redeveloped season? Alternate reality, similar to Usagi's own etc, the nature of how the character was introduced does'nt mean it's impossible.

Was this 4Kids mandate or the guy wanting to get away from the concept? (Which HAS to be Laird, since he's the head guy, unless he's listening to some veteran yes-men on what to do what's better for the franchise), maybe that's why there were episodes like "The Journal" and "Timing Is Everything" testing how the current animation would look on a contemporary setting..
You know I really do feel bad for Laird and the mirage crew they got screwed in the 80's by fox and now it happens again by some one who has shows on fox *sigh* I hope next time round Peter or whomever does tmnt makes a better damn contract for his or their own sake and sanity.

[ZariusTwo]

It's more difficult when the show is perceived as a toy marketing tool more than shows that are left well enough alone, mostly all of those are shows with failed toylines but have large demographic ratings

[VaughnMichael]

It's more difficult when the show is perceived as a toy marketing tool more than shows that are left well enough alone, mostly all of those are shows with failed toylines but have large demographic ratings
It's just so annoying I agree with you Zarius the people at playmates really must not remember their past with the line unless and this could be possible they have an all new staff who has no idea what happened with the old toy line.
I've been watching the sales of the figures over the run of 2k3-FF.
They did super well when they first came out, they still did well as other characters had been released, then came the endless variants again.
Sales went down they started to release a slew of like 5 or less secondary characters with the line and a mass load of the same turtle sculpts with attached armor or something if you notice those turtles sat and sat and sat until a sale came along the secondary characters fly off the shelves for the most part sans a few like general blanque.
They really just need to learn their lessons here I think allot of the time the people who use tmnt as a property act cocky with it and don't handle it very well.
I like Playmates having the tmnt and all but if they really don't get their act together soon they(mirage) need to move it on up to a better toy company who will do the line justice.

[Courk]

maybe that's why there were episodes like "The Journal" and "Timing Is Everything" testing how the current animation would look on a contemporary setting..

How did it look? From what I've seen, I prefer the earlier 2k3 style, but the FF style isn't that horrible to me, at least not with all the futuristic backgrounds.

[CyberCubed]

Well this is confusing.

There are still 6 episodes left in Season 6 that we'll be getting soon hopefully.

So what will become of Season 7? Does that mean 10 eps of Fast Forward were in production but were cancelled? Does that mean they were as far along as the Lost season before that got axed?

Ugh, I don't know what to think. On one hand I wouldn't mind FF going for another season (especially with Space Usagi), but c'mon...ANOTHER re-tool?

Then again, maybe it is the Turtles returning to the present but with the FF art style. We have seen it used in two episodes as said above...so...

[tortugapower]

Does that mean 10 eps of Fast Forward were in production but were cancelled?

Yes. They are dead in the water.

Does that mean they were as far along as the Lost season before that got axed?

They were not that far along. Lost Season is complete (except for "Nightmare's Recycled" which is only in work print form, meaning it's watchable but has no music/foley/dialogue or animation retakes.)

From all I hear the retooling will probably make the show more along the lines of the movie.

Oh, by the way, that avatar is adorable, tortuga!

Thanks!

[Roseangelo]

From all I hear the retooling will probably make the show more along the lines of the movie.

For me, that would be the best possible news!!

[CyberCubed]

But is 4kids still involved?

That movie news makes it sound like the 2k3 cartoon is getting cancelled and WB (?) wants their own TMNT cartoon.

Meh, I wouldn't want to see a third TMNT cartoon so soon if it means the end of 2k3. :(

[Vegita-San]

Fast Forward is done. One of the partners in the shows production has decided to not go ahead with the planned new episodes that would have comprised the next season, I will not say who or why for now.

So for the moment there will be no Space Usagi showing up, let alone any of the other things that were planned, which I will not reveal here.

So what happens to the show? It's not canceled, the show will likely be re-developed, your guess is as good as mine as to what the result may be... but either way production will not resume until sometime later this year.

So it's not the end of the world - but it may come as bad news for some.

I can only hope it's playmates. They did somewhat redeem themselves with the movie toys, but the rest of the line has been un-inspired.

FAst Forward has been getting better, but I can't say I'm sad to see it go.
I can only wonder what is happening behind the scenes if everything is going as smoothly as people would have you believe..

[ZariusTwo]

Based on the movie? Well it'd be the easiest idea right now to tie it in, given it was a modest critically received film, and any new audience would have found a future based series utterly confusing.

[ajistheman]

a TMNT movie-isque show would be cool imo. I'd love it if it were cgi OR cartoon. when fast forward was announced i wasn't worried about it all. In theory I think it is a good idea. But I would have loved it more if the characters didn't act out of character so much. That was my favorite part...how well developed the characters were...my 2nd favorite part was how violent it was, and well FF...kinda reduced that too
but i'm sure no matter what happens, I'll watch the show!

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, but wouldn't a show based around the movie be a totally new continuity?

Essentially that would mean the 2k3 series IS cancelled, and they're just starting some new TMNT cartoon. :/

Fast Forward was basically an extension of 2k3 but it was still technically the same show and was in continuity, but does that mean that everything the show accomplished over its 6 year run is now done?

Why not just continue the 2k3 series in the present? The 2k3 series and the movie basically had almost the same feel anyway.

[Courk]

Would it really be all that difficult to fit the new movie's information into a timeline for the 2k3 toon? I've only seen a smattering of new toon episodes, so I really have no idea. I realize that it probably wouldn't be a perfect fit, but would it stick out like a sore thumb?

[Cascadia]

Ok....yeah this is both good and bad news at the same time, depending on how one would take it. The part that appears to be the bad news is the uncertainty on what is going to happen with TMNT. It can be moved to another TV station, which is fine. It is hard to know what caused the series to go down in quality. I do not remember when but several months ago, 4kids indicated that they were losing money from either one or some of their current running shows.

[CyberCubed]

Would it really be all that difficult to fit the new movie's information into a timeline for the 2k3 toon? I've only seen a smattering of new toon episodes, so I really have no idea. I realize that it probably wouldn't be a perfect fit, but would it stick out like a sore thumb?

Well, the new movie has some differences but it isn't all that different than the 2k3 series. The major difference is the Turtles meet Karai for the first time in the movie, but in the series they've known her since Season 2. That would definitely be a major continuity error if they tried to make the movie universe one and the same with the 2k3 series.

Now, if this news means that the 2k3 series is continuing with the Turtles returning to the present but with the movie feel to it...then that would be awesome. That way they could keep the continuity of Seasons 1-6 yet make it have the movie feel at the same time.

I don't think I'l be all that glad to see the 2k3 series gone forever just for a third TMNT cartoon though. :/

[FearlessLeader]

I am most curious about if 4Kids will be involved or not anymore, because honestly I would be very sad to lose the current voice cast to the cartoon. Don't get my wrong the movie voice actors are fantastic, but I love the crew that works for 4Kids. I know it would make a few of the guys that do the Turtles very sad if they lose the show.

[tortugapower]

All the same parties will be involved - 4Kids, Playmates, Mirage etc.

I am also sure they will try to fit it in with is already established in the 2k3 series since it is all the same people involved.

[CyberCubed]

I'm pretty sure Playmates wanted the change then. The movie toys sold MUCH better than the Fast Forward toys, and they must have noticed all the extra money they were making.

Combine Playmates movie toy sales and of course Peter Laird who most likely wanted FF to only be 1 season, and I guess they forced 4kids to make the change?

As long as the 2k3 series continues in some form, then I'm ok with whatever changes they make. I just don't want them to throw the past 6 years out the window and pretend it never happened.

[Roseangelo]

I would expect 4Kids to still be involved (changing the format to be more movie-based does not mean WB is taking over; WB distributed the movie, they do not own the movie concept). I also believe 4Kids has deeper involvement in the franchise than simply making the cartoon, so it wouldn't make sense for them to pass off a new cartoon to a new company. TMNT may not be making as much money for them now as it used to in the first years of the new cartoon, but they really don't have much else going for them right now.

And with 4Kids at the helm, I would expect the same voice actors to be around. Especially because of how the whole union situation works in the voice acting world.. 4Kids wouldn't necessarily be able to hire the movie voices if they wanted to.

[X]

*in Hulk Hogan voice* What's that smell..........? Doooooooooooookie.

Anyhow, I will take this info with a grain of salt, as I'm sure the news coming this sudden, would have been broken by news on Stan's website about the lack of a Space Usagi appearence, or from whoever is with the staff that posts here. In anycase it's not in the nature, I would assume, for staff members of any show to tell a fan of the show before letting the whole fandom know at the same time.

Oh and I never thought the current TMNT show lost any quality, so much as people fear change. I honestly grew to like TMNT:FF, and the only reason I disliked it, is because others did, so it clouded my judgement. That was my bad.

Well wait, the only thing that did lose quality, but was still tolerable, was the animation style. I can live with FF animation, but like 2k3 episode animation better.

-X-

[GK Punk]

imo, they should rework 2k3 in to a more new movie style continuity. Or at least try to.

[CyberCubed]

imo, they should rework 2k3 in to a more new movie style continuity. Or at least try to.

Are you saying the show should be based on the movie?

I really don't see why we can't have 2k3 in the present instead. Isn't this what you guys all wanted? Everyone hoped that once Fast Forward ended that the Turtles would return to the present and things would carry on as usual.

Why not just use the same continuity that has a 6 season history? There are still plenty of comics to adapt into episodes if the writers are ever at a loss for new material, so there's countless stuff they could do in future seasons. I'd still like to see some of Tales V. 2 adapted into episodes as well as a few more Volume 1 issues.

[Rooish]

Maybe they can make a Beast Wars-esque CGI TMNT show with the VAs from the new movie and show that instead.

Also, I want a pony.

[Jester]

Yeah, that may prove cost-prohibitive considering Sarah Michelle and Chris Evans. If they did do a CG TMNT based on the movie, who'd be Splinter since Mako died? Could we expect a sequel if they made a CG series?

[Risawn]

I hope they are able to continue the series, we can keep our fingers crossed, right?

I admit I don't watch the show on Television (generally I wait for the DVD to come out) but if it means a future for the series back in the present, I'll gladly tune in.

This brings an interesting speculation of what they can do with the series if they bring it back into the present. I'm starting a thread on that subject in the forum.

[Roseangelo]

This is a complete guess, but I wouldn't expect CGI at all. Yeah, you can do that craptastic Bratz or Viva Pinata stuff, but after seeing the movie, would you really want that? It should be kept traditional 2D.

[Rooish]

Yeah, that may prove cost-prohibitive considering Sarah Michelle and Chris Evans. If they did do a CG TMNT based on the movie, who'd be Splinter since Mako died? Could we expect a sequel if they made a CG series?

I just meant the cheap VAs ... the Turtle VAs.

[ZariusTwo]

It won't be CGI or anything, it'll likely follow the style of the film but maintain the continuity of the series, we'll likely see the begginings of April putting together her buisness (seen in the film), Casey being her lackey/night vigilante, Karai may start wearing her film outfit etc...

Who knows? Maybe Max Winters will even become a regular

[VaughnMichael]

For me, that would be the best possible news!!
not me I've allready grown tired of the movie and I pray if there is any kind of god in heaven the new show will not be cgi that craps on its way out the door tv wise anyways.
I'm pretty sure Playmates wanted the change then. The movie toys sold MUCH better than the Fast Forward toys, and they must have noticed all the extra money they were making.
That's actully not true I watch Playmates toy sales very closely and the Fast Forward Toys sold better than the 2k3 toys for the most part I also don't have the stats for the sales of the movie figures yet but they aren't flying off the shelves in my opinion.
The movie hype sold the movie toys, movie came out, some more sold, movies over no one really gives a damn in my opinion I most certainly don't and more than likely wont again untill the dvd comes out or even a new movie.
This movie was fun and all but it really wasn't all that great.
Why not just use the same continuity that has a 6 season history? There are still plenty of comics to adapt into episodes if the writers are ever at a loss for new material, so there's countless stuff they could do in future seasons. I'd still like to see some of Tales V. 2 adapted into episodes as well as a few more Volume 1 issues.
You know I used to think adapting the comic book issues was something that was amazing at first but I think it's something that helped aid this show in poor ratings come to think of it.
The thing that made the old show last so long was the fact that everything was always new and wasn't taken from something else I believe.
It won't be CGI or anything, it'll likely follow the style of the film but maintain the continuity of the series, we'll likely see the begginings of April putting together her buisness (seen in the film), Casey being her lackey/night vigilante, Karai may start wearing her film outfit etc...
Who knows? Maybe Max Winters will even become a regular
I really pray it wont be cgi god tv cg is just so bad...*hides in a corner in fear*
oi I don't know man the thoughts annoy me when everythings already been established in the show.
And Max Winters died in the movie I really wouldn't enjoy watching an entire show of Flash Backs.

[Roseangelo]

not me I've allready grown tired of the movie and I pray if there is any kind of god in heaven the new show will not be cgi that craps on its way out the door tv wise anyways.

Nono, I don't want CGI at all. But I LOVE the atmosphere of the new movie and would welcome new stories in that environment.

[Courk]

I thought CG cost a lot of money? If I've understood correctly, they switched animation styles to save money, right? I prefer CG for a theatrical movie, but I'd rather have nice 2D for TV. I don't really have a reason for that.

I'm pretty sure Playmates wanted the change then. The movie toys sold MUCH better than the Fast Forward toys, and they must have noticed all the extra money they were making.
:lol: "Where'd this come from?"

[VaughnMichael]

Nono, I don't want CGI at all. But I LOVE the atmosphere of the new movie and would welcome new stories in that environment.
I would personally dispise it for throwing everything away even Fast Forward had things kept from 2k3 past.
This new movie world show doubtfull the only thing that would make me like it is if things from the old toon world or archie world would be included it would keep me from down right hating it...because honestly I saw the movie once and it was ok but it doesn't have that wow zing fealing the old movies did I'm not sure if it was because it was cgi but it left me sort of empty after watching it.
Or it could have been because it felt so rushed.
I don't know but yeah I saw now you wouldn't want cgi on tv thank god it would look sooooooo bad.
This really scares me and bothers me allot everything in the turtles world right now is so up in the air.
I sent Murphy a link to this so hopefully he will put an end to all of this and prove it to be true or not.:dead:
:lol: "Where'd this come from?"
trust me as far as my statistics at this point are concernd this isn't true. And if it is the only reason they would sell more of them is because the figures where for a feature film and not a tv show.

[Murphy]

Hmmm, I don't know who you are "tortugapower" but you certainly seem to speak with authority, even though your information is only half-baked. Nor do I know where you get your info "Roseangelo" but again, it's incomplete.

To set the record straight regarding the current status of the cartoon show...

First, in all honesty, the status/future of the cartoon show changes from week to week. This is most likely what accounts for all the contradictory information that is floating around. However, I am not going to say what this week's status is, or what the current plans might be, as they are bound to change. No need to further muddy these waters.

Two, the show's future will be decided following the Licensing Show (in NYC in June). Only then will decisions be made regarding what direction the show would take (assuming, of course, that the show continues).

Three, it is at that point that we will also know whether or not a greenlight is given to a movie sequel. This and the precding point are directly related.

Four, until such time, everything --and I do mean everything-- is up in the air.

Five, the only certainty (at least THIS week) is that the last 6 episodes of the 26 episodes that comprise the "two" FF seasons will not be aired until the Fall of 2007. Which, technically, then becomes the second FF season.

Six, yes, the FF toys sold poorly.

Seven, yes, the movie toys are selling really well.

Eight, the FF cartoon is currently enjoying its highest ratings in two years. Go figure. Thank the movie.

And thanks for your time.

-m.

[GK Punk]

That's what I pretty much figured as far as ratings went. That's why I think a more movie-esque rework of the show might boost ratings further. But of course that isn't necessarily a definite ratings boost.

Kids (Who are the target audience for these shows) may end up liking FF more than a mirage/movie based toon... I guess it's hard to say. (Let's keep in mind that was why Mattel changed the direction of masters of the universe for the show's second season.. to make it appeal more to kids)

[odupianist]

What, no nine? :P Thanks for setting the record straight. Not to make light of it, but it sounds like the folks on that end know about as much as we do lol

[Murphy]

Nine, no, there's no number nine.

[GK Punk]

You should totally edit that in to your first post :lol:

[VaughnMichael]

Nine, no, there's no number nine.
Thanks for posting btw Murph...I shot you off the letter cause I didn't want this getting to far and the fans to freak out.

[Murphy]

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, dude.

[FearlessLeader]

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, dude.

Hello Murphy!

Thanks for coming here and shedding some light on this topic. Much better then following rumors and second guessing ourselves.

Interesting information about the movie sequel also. Nice to know it hasn't completely been written off.

Hopefully the coming months will bring forth some exciting news.

Thanks again! :)

[CyberCubed]

Murphy, just make sure that whatever direction 4kids takes the show in...that it keeps the continuity of the past 6 seasons.

One thing I liked about FF is it was in continuity with Seasons 1-5. If the show changes direction again, I'd hope that it continues from the previous seasons in any case. I don't think I want the current series to die and to start all over with a new continuity. :/

[Jo Dawn]

Murphy pwns us all. Hahahaha, I love this guy!


The only thing I admit I'm worried about is the seeming correlation between a movie sequel and FF. Or did I read that wrong? I hope that's not the case. :/

I haven't read the whole thread, mind you, but I'd be up for re-doing the series and forgetting FF. Or just starting over (though, sadly, 2K3 was so great, I hate to lose that).

Anyhow, thank you Murphy, for coming in and setting us all straight and letting us know what's really going on (and getting rid of those so called 'sources' and 'rumours' that always bog us down here. ). ;) :P Thank you.

Dude, that made me laugh; you totally made my day.

[gobo]

Murphy, just make sure that whatever direction 4kids takes the show in...that it keeps the continuity of the past 6 seasons.

One thing I liked about FF is it was in continuity with Seasons 1-5. If the show changes direction again, I'd hope that it continues from the previous seasons in any case. I don't think I want the current series to die and to start all over with a new continuity. :/
A "please" might help your command to be more well-received. Just a suggestion though.

Thanks for visiting, Murph! ^_^

[TerranigmaFreak]

See kids, isn't it nice to have insiders with us now?

Anyway, thanks for clearing everything up, Mr. Murphy. It's good to know the staff still visits this place from time to time to clear things up for us.

[Rooish]

Oh God, a movie sequel based off of FF? Ahhhhh I want a mature movie. Okay I'm not going to speculate. ;)

[Spitfire]

Chill people, they wouldn't end TMNT without an ENDING. So it's safe to say that the episodes not airing that would lead into the new season at very least would be morphed into an ending. The TMNT will most likely stop the Day Of Awakening and then use the Time portal to go home or something.

If their redeveloping the series then their not canning it.

At very worst it'll be a CGI series like the movie. But I doubt they will pay what that would cost.

[Roseangelo]

Hi Murphy - Thanks for posting.

My info is "friend of a friend" info, so you can take that as you will. I wouldn't have said anything except for the fact that what I heard was pretty much in line with what tortugapower wrote.

I actually hope FF doesn't have an abrupt, unresolved ending. As much as I dislike the FF format personally, I would like to see at least one TMNT TV project have a proper and resolved ending.

[gobo]

Yeah, seriously... TV-grade CG = teh suxxor!!!11!1 And, I'm done making fun of l33ts. But, even if they actually are thinking of a more 2K7-like retread, who's to say what attributes they are planning to borrow from the movie? CG would likely be on the bottom of that list just because it's too expensive for what it's worth. I'd sooner expect to see Yaotl Winters join the cast.

[CyberCubed]

Maybe Splinter's fur will be colored brown instead of grey?

I keep thinking we're in for a TNBA redesign change with how different the characters looked there from B:TAS.

If they do want to make it look like the movie, I imagine we're in for a totally new art style that's different from both 2k3 and FF.

[odupianist]

I think it's on the main site, but I know WB had done some color tests and character designs for a show before 2k3.

[Jo Dawn]

I actually hope FF doesn't have an abrupt, unresolved ending. As much as I dislike the FF format personally, I would like to see at least one TMNT TV project have a proper and resolved ending.

This is true... But what about 2K3?? They didn't get an 'ending' at all. I'd much more prefer we get an ending for a good series like 2K3 before any more FF. Even if it is an ending.

[CyberCubed]

The 2k3 series did have the Lost Season though, even if that didn't wrap up everything.

Fast Forward only has 6 episodes left and I really wonder what will happen in the last episode. If the Turtles don't return to the past in the final ep, how will that explain the following season? Unless of course the first ep of the next season shows the Turtles go back at the very beginning or something.

Not to mention if the show is redeveloped to look like the movie, I assume it will be a continuation of the 2k3 series anyway, well, hopefully.

[Chris]

2K3 did get an ending... they just didn't air it.

Since there's still one extra episode following "Day of Awakening" (according to all lists that is 142 out of 143) I'm guessing the next episode will either have a cliff hanger leading into more FF or be a finale and return them home.

I can't understand why 4Kids would save 6 episodes for next season. At least it does allow time after the June (when the fate of the show will be decided) for the FF finale to be reworked if needed to fit whatever decision is made.

Thanks for the updates Murphy, can't wait until we hear the outcome in June. I'm really hoping that the TMNT get another movie and that the series continues (back to 2K3, more FF or new direction as long as the basic continuity is maintained).

Guess the movie is also to thank (in part) for the FF toys not selling well as they'd be fighting for shelf space and more stores would go for the movie versions.

[Ninjinister]

Hmmm, I don't know who you are "tortugapower" but you certainly seem to speak with authority, even though your information is only half-baked. Nor do I know where you get your info "Roseangelo" but again, it's incomplete.

To set the record straight regarding the current status of the cartoon show...

First, in all honesty, the status/future of the cartoon show changes from week to week. This is most likely what accounts for all the contradictory information that is floating around. However, I am not going to say what this week's status is, or what the current plans might be, as they are bound to change. No need to further muddy these waters.

Two, the show's future will be decided following the Licensing Show (in NYC in June). Only then will decisions be made regarding what direction the show would take (assuming, of course, that the show continues).

Three, it is at that point that we will also know whether or not a greenlight is given to a movie sequel. This and the precding point are directly related.

Four, until such time, everything --and I do mean everything-- is up in the air.

Five, the only certainty (at least THIS week) is that the last 6 episodes of the 26 episodes that comprise the "two" FF seasons will not be aired until the Fall of 2007. Which, technically, then becomes the second FF season.

Six, yes, the FF toys sold poorly.

Seven, yes, the movie toys are selling really well.

Eight, the FF cartoon is currently enjoying its highest ratings in two years. Go figure. Thank the movie.

And thanks for your time.

-m.

Thank you, Mr. Murphy. Prior to reading your post, I was going to post something along the lines of me remaining skeptical about the entire thing until I heard some actual official word.

[gobo]

The new show should be:
Drumroll, please.

"TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES: A DIME A DOZEN" <== very tentative working title

The concept: Each week, the Turtles are put in a new situation with a new direction, new characters, new art-style, etc. To tie it together into a continuous story, it can be decided that something goes awry on the trip home that causes them to take a ride through time and space, living through different interpretations of themselves (someone, call Michael Zulli!), and trying to remember who they are and why everything seems so wrong to them. This will serve to give samples of several different directions to explore while also giving 4Kids their preferred option of an episodic series.

I would expose my further developments and ideas for the show, but... Put me on the payroll, and we'll talk. ^_^ :D

[Spitfire]

This is true... But what about 2K3?? They didn't get an 'ending' at all. I'd much more prefer we get an ending for a good series like 2K3 before any more FF. Even if it is an ending.

TLS takes place before FF*As I'm sure you know*, very clear if you watch TLS it actually makes some FF episodes make more sense. And TLS's could have been the end of the series easily with how it wraps stuff up.

[gobo]

Actually, rewatching the beginning of "Future Shellshock" the other day, I have to wonder if it's actually supposed to take place before Karai destroys the lair. I didn't see the signature sliding door entrance to the lair, but there isn't a little stream in the middle of the new lair AFAIK. But, why else would the lair be totalled/"trashed" after their 99-year time-jump? I could just be imagining things, but 'what if'?

[X]

These are the things I hope for honestly.

1. The show DOES continue. Animation goes back to the 2k3 style.

2. If the show MUST end, at least have a fitting ending. However I hope to god this number isn't solidified in any form.

That being said, Warner would be freakin retarded, seeing as how interviews stated that WB didn't even have to front that much money, like they normally would on a film (i.e. marketing, production cost, etc...) I hear everything was halved, and that is how the movie was making a profit early on. Hell the movie held it's own against 300, Meet the Robinsons, Blades of Glory, and dethroned Shooter a few times, before fading away. If there was any doubt of a sequel, it would be due to the Weinsteins saying so. They put their power into getting a distributor for the film, they sure as hell can do it, should the film need to find another studio to call home. The movie had legs, for as much competition it had to go up against.

This one is for Murphy. You'd think if a show is enjoying all time ratings, you would finish out both seasons right away (assuming your statement about the last 6 episodes of the 26 episodes of FF, make up two seasons.) What happened to me duder, was back in the day, when crap like Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm, X-Men, and Megaman started coming on, I totally forgot about the Turtles existance on TV. It's pretty sad when you stop watching at the beginning of season 5, don't even remember the show, then one day in 1996 you turn it on CBS when you wake up to see red sky episodes and say, "what the heck, this show still comes on, how could I have forgotten to watch all these years." I guess I'm saying, people forget. If people keep checking every Saturday to see no new episodes, what's going to get them to think the show is ever going to have new episodes? Most people cannot follow a show or the buzz surrounding it forever, before they give up. Finish it now, get those damn good ratings, so the fandom can have new episodes (assuming that's what it takes coupled with this liscensing show this June.)

Look, if Simpsons, or Power Rangers can last as long as it has, I'm sure TMNT can as well in the right hands. Those shows found a pattern, I'm sure TMNT can. If people keep watching a show they swear hasn't been good since season 3 or 4 (Simpsons,) why can't Turtles last? How about Power Rangers? Recycled colors and different helmet or two, but same layouts on EVERY episode, yea, I'm sure TMNT garners more interest then that. Who knows.

I hope the movie gets a sequel. HAVE SHREDDER IN IT! People relate to TMNT with the shred man in it. Wonder why TMNT 3 didn't do so well in theatres. I didn't want to see it because I grew up on the old toon, so Shredder was the only villan I cared about. There is, however, no excuse for the movie NOT to get a sequel, when the current film grossed more then the third film, and with heavy competition. 53 mil is pretty impressive, for a film that was halved in the middle on production and marketing costs.

EDIT: Did Stan Sakai lie when he said Space Usagi would appear in a future TMNT episode? Seeing as how Murphy is stating that TMNT:FF was 26 episodes long (being two seasons in the process.) Or does Stan know something we don't? Namely more episodes after they get home (please god, don't let know one be stupid enough NOT to make more episodes after they get home.)

*WALL OF TEXT GO!*

-X-

[Courk]

That being said, Warner would be freakin retarded, seeing as how interviews stated that WB didn't even have to front that much money, like they normally would on a film (i.e. marketing, production cost, etc...) I hear everything was halved, and that is how the movie was making a profit early on.

Can you provide me links to those citations, please? I'd like to read them.

[TheShowstoppa]

I hate to say it Murph... but I'm sick and tired of these limbos and sh*t like that. I specifically went out and BOUGHT the FF toys - Just as I did the movie figures. (Gotta buy a new Donny now because the card bent.) I was excited because it was told that the episodes of FF weren't coming on until Fall... then they started up again. I was happy! Continuation is good. You want to say thank the movie because of the show's ratings... why the hell couldn't we have aired TLS? It wouldn't have fared any worse.

As for the movie - There had better be a sequel. I know it's asking a lot, but then again, your meeting won't be taking place until around the time that the DVDs come out.

I'm not lying when I say that this movie is going to make BANK on DVD. Those who have little faith obviously haven't seen what it did for Fantastic 4 or Punisher (though Punisher's sequel has yet to start pre-production... it's in development hell right now).

Also - and I know you don't have anything to do about it... but seriously... TRY AND GET THE LOST SEASON IN THE STATES FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD! We're sick of waiting and it's become rediculous. This is the reason why fans are being turned off of the show.... We keep getting played around with and it's becoming rediculous.

That's my rant for this thread.

[Spitfire]

I'm not lying when I say that this movie is going to make BANK on DVD. Those who have little faith obviously haven't seen what it did for Fantastic 4 or Punisher (though Punisher's sequel has yet to start pre-production... it's in development hell right now).

Fantastic Four made a decent amount of money in the box office*Way more then TMNT did* and the only reason Punisher did well in DVD sales is because a directors cut came out.

[jenna]

Rumours, speculation.... I don't know what the real situation is, but I can say this:

I know not everyone will agree, but this is my fantasy:

The powers that be have realised that FF is lame and unprofitable and that the movie is the way the turtles should be. Hence they create a gritty, 'Mirage' style TV series that I can get excited about on a weekly basis, but CGI with the new movie design and the movie VAs and character interpretations.

Whilst I'm wishing for stuff that is unlikely, I also intend to win the lottery this week, and for some amazing new shampoo to be invented that leaves your hair straight and shiny without having to use time-consuming and damaging heat appliances on it - ooh ooh and for chocolate covered hazelnuts... hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Anyway, I guess we'll know more in June. Thanks for the info, Murphy.

[Ratchet]

I think people are looking for answers in the wrong places. Tortugapower seems to be the one that's in with 4Kids entertainment, and to me, all these questions and complaints should all be directed towards 4Kids - not Mirage!
Mirage isn't this big corporation everyone seems to assume it is, and while it's probably true that Pete has a vast amount of influence on the TV Shows, that doesn't necessarily mean he or Mirage have any control over how the show gets aired. Look at what happened when they first started screening The new episodes before Fast Forward (or maybe it was fast forward...), Mirage were being told one thing, we were being told another and for kids went and did whatever!

Face it, we're a vocal minority here, and even we don't all see eye to eye on the issue. Why not try another medium? Maybe TMNT would be doing better if people stopped seeing it simply as a TV show. It started as a comic book, and if you ask me, the stories coming out of the comics have just about always been better than the ones coming from the TV show (outside of the ones actually based on the comics of course), and from what's being solicited for the next few months, it looks to continue that way. As I understand it, the comic books are produced almost at a loss to Mirage (I could be wrong, but they're certainly not Spiderman comics). If people supported it in more areas we probably wouldn't have this problem. A few adults posting their gripes about a TV show aimed at a demographic way below their own age isn't going to do anything to help the franchise.

As for the movie - There had better be a sequel.

Why? Did you go and see that movie JUST so they could make a sequel?

[jenna]

Face it, we're a vocal minority here, and even we don't all see eye to eye on the issue. Why not try another medium? Maybe TMNT would be doing better if people stopped seeing it simply as a TV show. It started as a comic book, and if you ask me, the stories coming out of the comics have just about always been better than the ones coming from the TV show (outside of the ones actually based on the comics of course), and from what's being solicited for the next few months, it looks to continue that way. As I understand it, the comic books are produced almost at a loss to Mirage (I could be wrong, but they're certainly not Spiderman comics). If people supported it in more areas we probably wouldn't have this problem.


Believe me, I would if I could. I've been hunting for ways to buy and read the comics for months. I can't get hold of them in this area. Apparently Cambridge has become such a commercial enterprise that there is no room for little comic book stores. The best I can do is Dreemwave graphic novels and Forbidden planet stocked the movie comics for about 3 weeks.

A few adults posting their gripes about a TV show aimed at a demographic way below their own age isn't going to do anything to help the franchise.

I don't think this assessment is very fair. All we're doing is sharing opinions about a show that is bound to mean a lot to us for various reasons - the comics being one of them, and whether we like it or not, it is a fact that TV shows are a major, if not the most lucrative, aspect of the TMNT franchise. It may be targeted for children, but many people will tell you that they sit and watch it and enjoy every aspect. I do. I still watch the old toon and have a good laugh. Whatever it is, TMNT still appeals to a great number of adults and children alike. I'm sure there are aspects of each series we would all like to change, but the fact is things are the way they are and the best we can do is enjoy whatever the next stage of the franchise development is. For me, FF was a disappointment, but the film was great. I think I'm lucky to still be enjoying it. Others' opinions may differ, but that doesn't change the fact that having a place to discuss and share our gripes and positive comments is a really awesome thing.

[Ratchet]

I don't think this assessment is very fair. All we're doing is sharing opinions about a show that is bound to mean a lot to us for various reasons - the comics being one of them, and whether we like it or not, it is a fact that TV shows are a major, if not the most lucrative, aspect of the TMNT franchise. It may be targeted for children, but many people will tell you that they sit and watch it and enjoy every aspect. I do. I still watch the old toon and have a good laugh. Whatever it is, TMNT still appeals to a great number of adults and children alike. I'm sure there are aspects of each series we would all like to change, but the fact is things are the way they are and the best we can do is enjoy whatever the next stage of the franchise development is. For me, FF was a disappointment, but the film was great. I think I'm lucky to still be enjoying it. Others' opinions may differ, but that doesn't change the fact that having a place to discuss and share our gripes and positive comments is a really awesome thing.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying that the board is a bad place, or that the people here are bad - far from it. What I'm saying is that a few people here get all up in arms because of Fast Forward, then get all antsy because they decide to cut it (Something I thought people would be happy about, seeing how vocal everyone was about it). I'm just saying that even if the show did get cancelled and nothing took it's place, there are still other TMNT outlets, ones which a lot of fans seem to overlook unfairly.

If everyone is that concerned about the show being changed or whatever, chase up Tortugapower! He seems to be the one in with 4Kids! Or chase up 4Kids instead of acting as though the whole thing falls onto Pete or Mirage's shoulders.

[jenna]

I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying that the board is a bad place, or that the people here are bad - far from it. What I'm saying is that a few people here get all up in arms because of Fast Forward, then get all antsy because they decide to cut it (Something I thought people would be happy about, seeing how vocal everyone was about it). I'm just saying that even if the show did get cancelled and nothing took it's place, there are still other TMNT outlets, ones which a lot of fans seem to overlook unfairly.



OK, I see what you're saying. I suppose it comes down to the ultimate question: what's worse, to have TMNT on the TV, but for it to be cr*p, or not to have it at all.

I reckon many people who dislike FF watch it anyway, just because it's TMNT in some shape or form. And there's nothing wrong with that. I keep a half-interested eye on FF although I have missed a lot of it.
Anyway, I'll be very interested to see what happens in June, and thereafter. I won't shed tears for FF if it's taken off air, and although I would be disappointed to have no turtles at all, it wouldn't be the end of the world as we survived the years between OT & NT. It would be great for the influence of the new movie to be carried forward, if we don't get a sequel then in a TV series.

Anyway, the screen turtles have always been my main source of TMNT as like I said, I can't get hold of any comics. Although, I've recently discovered reading fan fiction which has been a very interesting experience. That could keep me going.

[ZariusTwo]

Six, yes, the FF toys sold poorly.

Seven, yes, the movie toys are selling really well.

Advantage: Movie based series:lol:

In regards to this, anyone blabbing "inside info" whose name is'nt highlighted in green needs to shut the f*ck up and discuss the show as is stands the way they see it with everyone else, not what people are e-mailing them with.

[Vegita-San]

-m.

Yo Murphy!

Would a smattering of Turtle fans joining outside the liscencing show(assuming it's in a building somewhere and not a skyscraper) showing support for the series help? :)

I'm not really surprised about the toys. Playmates REALLY needs to get their act together and put out some quality stuff. that means NO MORE VARIANTS. Better produced figures. SOMETHING other than what they are currently doing. The few movie toys that I did see really did impress me, however. They seemed much better quality than the current line.

Apparently they also have not learned their lesson as the Batman line seems to have fallen drastically with tons of different colored Batman figures on the shelves just sitting there.

[Jo Dawn]

TLS takes place before FF*As I'm sure you know*, very clear if you watch TLS it actually makes some FF episodes make more sense. And TLS's could have been the end of the series easily with how it wraps stuff up.

Yes, I know all this, heh... I guess I should have worded my statement better. Thanks, though. What I meant was, everyone's all 'OMG FF better have an ending'. And no cares about the actual good show. I'm more concerned about seeing the real show and it's ending.

[Roseangelo]

Yes, I know all this, heh... I guess I should have worded my statement better. Thanks, though. What I meant was, everyone's all 'OMG FF better have an ending'. And no cares about the actual good show. I'm more concerned about seeing the real show and it's ending.

Well, despite the drastic format change that came with FF, it's still part of the "real" show. I would like to see an episode where the Turtles go home to the present to wrap up the FF storyline, but it seems like we probably won't even get that. Despite my dislike of FF, that bums me.

The lost season has a good ending for that season, although I don't like it as an end to the series. But it doesn't sound like the series on the whole is over, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[VaughnMichael]

Yes, I know all this, heh... I guess I should have worded my statement better. Thanks, though. What I meant was, everyone's all 'OMG FF better have an ending'. And no cares about the actual good show. I'm more concerned about seeing the real show and it's ending.
I care about everything and I don't want anything being left without any kind of ending what if 2k3 tmnt get stuck in FF land forever don't forget as much as you loath everything about FF it's still a part of the story that is 2k3 tmnt.
So you better hope and pray they take them back to the present day in the last episode because as much as I've enjoyed the change I do not want them to be in limbo forever I will not have this turn out to be another archie comics.
Well, despite the drastic format change that came with FF, it's still part of the "real" show. I would like to see an episode where the Turtles go home to the present to wrap up the FF storyline, but it seems like we probably won't even get that. Despite my dislike of FF, that bums me.

The lost season has a good ending for that season, although I don't like it as an end to the series. But it doesn't sound like the series on the whole is over, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
heh ;)

[Roseangelo]

So you better hope and pray they take them back to the present day in the last episode because as much as I've enjoyed the change I do not want them to be in limbo forever I will not have this turn out to be another archie comics.

I don't think you have to be worried about that. The reason they want to pull out of FF is to get the TMNT back to regular New York. The transition will just be a little awkward. Like how Season 4 ended with "Ninja Tribunal," which obviously had a continuing story line and then all of a sudden 4Kids throws FF at you as if "Ninja Tribunal" never existed. So I would expect the TMNT to be suddenly back in NYC with no explanation or resolution to the whole time travel thing.

[VaughnMichael]

I don't think you have to be worried about that. The reason they want to pull out of FF is to get the TMNT back to regular New York. The transition will just be a little awkward. Like how Season 4 ended with "Ninja Tribunal," which obviously had a continuing story line and then all of a sudden 4Kids throws FF at you as if "Ninja Tribunal" never existed. So I would expect the TMNT to be suddenly back in NYC with no explanation or resolution to the whole time travel thing.
That is seriously the dumbest thing I've ever friggin heard!
Once again leave it to 4f'nkids and playmates to ruin the turtles they always think they know whats so good for them when they're the ones who screw it up! guh! I'm sorry but I'm just so sick of this.:x

[Chef Boyarquoa]

i'm almost glad FF is getting cancelled, because I much perfer 2k3 era, but I'm worried TMNT as a whole will be pulled from TV which would totally suck!

[VaughnMichael]

i'm almost glad FF is getting cancelled, because I much perfer 2k3 era, but I'm worried TMNT as a whole will be pulled from TV which would totally suck!
the thing is FF is 2k3 just dumbed down if it goes it all goes I think thats the thing people aren't getting...boy am I steamed over this I hate when things don't have closure.

[CyberCubed]

4kids may not care what order they air episodes in, but the individual writers, Lloyd Goldfine and Peter Laird apparently do.

Fast Forward didn't HAVE to show the Turtles in the new lair, or show the Ninja Tribunal in "The Journal" and in "Graduation Day," but they did. The fact that the FF season keeps continuity with the Lost season shows how much the writers care about the ongoing structure of this show, even if 4kids airs them in some whacked out order.

If we are getting a Season 7, I do expect that to at least give us a short recap of how the Turtles got back home to present time. All they really need to do is give a short recap at the beginning, or give a throwaway line from Don saying how Cody fixed the time window, and that's about it. Don't forget that all throughout the season there has been indication that Don/Cody have been working on the time window all along, so its not like it would happen out of nowhere.

My hopes for Season 7:

- Art style returns to 2k3 style, but with a more "movie-like" feel to it
- Turtles return back to the present, we continue where we left off
- Movie elements are introduced in the cartoon such as Raphael becoming the Nightwatcher, maybe Splinter will be redesigned to look more like his movie counterpart, April and Casey start living together, April gets a job, and maybe even have Karai and the Foot redesigned to look like their movie versions?
- They continue adapting comics from the official Mirage continuity
- Its a full 26 episode season, hopefully not a 13 ep season only like the Lost season

That would be likely, I think.

[rayfillet101]

Id love to see nightwatcher, max winters, and the jersey devel in the 2k3 universe. If they bring them back hopefully they can get back to the old quality that we are used to.

[Spitfire]

I'm more concerned about seeing the real show and it's ending.

Then watch The Lost Season that's what I was saying. It's the real ending to the series. It wraps up everything into a nice little package.

[X]

Man with all this talk, you act as though Murphy said that for sure the show is getting the boot.

Nothing has been decided yet, let's have some optimism, instead of saying, "oh hey 4kids doesn't have faith in their product so we need to bail too."

I have hope.

-X-

[ajistheman]

yeah, i REALLY want this show to continue, but like everyone else, it would mean a lot to me if they DO have a conclusion-ish episode that completes the story of this show (which is BOTH 2k3 and FF's stories). Just remember what the comics taught us
"Turtles Die With Honor"

[Buslady]

I know...they all wake up in the lair "wow that was a bad dream"

[VaughnMichael]

I know...they all wake up in the lair "wow that was a bad dream"
No that happend allready in mirage vol.2 :roll:

[Ratchet]

No that happend allready in mirage vol.2 :roll:

What? No it didn't. Where was this?

[VaughnMichael]

What? No it didn't. Where was this?
thats how mirage vol. 2 ended leo woke up it was all a dream or wait was it dun dun dun!:lol:

[Ratchet]

I thought Vol.4 pretty much implied that it all happened, and that Braunze mindwiped them (I'm sure more could've happened, hopefully someone will explain that one in Tales sometime!).

[NoPressApril]

I just hope that when the turtles return Viral comes through the time window thing with them. She's such a cool villian.

[Ninjinister]

I thought Vol.4 pretty much implied that it all happened, and that Braunze mindwiped them (I'm sure more could've happened, hopefully someone will explain that one in Tales sometime!).

How would Leo have survived then? He, like, got blown to Kingdom Come.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

How would Leo have survived then? He, like, got blown to Kingdom Come.

I think that was an illusion created by Mr. Braunze.

[TheShowstoppa]

...and the only reason Punisher did well in DVD sales is because a directors cut came out.

Spit... I normally agree with you on just about everything - however, this assumption would be false. The director's cut that you so speak of came out 2 years after the movie was released. There wouldn't have been a director's cut if the movie hadn't done well on DVD to begin with - remember, the original dvd came with all the deleted scenes as extras. The director's cut came out as a result of the ensuing wait for the sequel. The sequel was announced to be planned not too long after the original DVD came out. Look at the dates between the release of the DVD, the announcing of a sequel, and the release date of the director's cut if you don't believe me.


As for the "You went to see the movie just for there to be a sequel?" comment... NO. I went to see the movie because I was intregued and I'm a huge TMNT fan. There had better be a sequel because A.) The movie made almost double its budget. That alone could warrant it. B.) The DVD sales and rentals have yet to be released, however, when it does happen, and like I predict - and it makes bank on DVD - That alone should warrant the sequel. If the second movie doesn't make more than the original - I wouldn't fault them if they didn't make another one. I'd be first in line to tell them not to because they'd be LOSING money because of it.

[FlawedCoil82]

I am all for Fast Forward ending. I hope it will. I either want the normal 2003 series back or nothing at all. I found FF to be an insult to TMNT. I know it sucks when series end because I was heartbroken when X-Men ended and to this day I've never seen another cartoon I liked more than X-Men (speaking of which they severely need to release that show in a season boxset already!), however TMNT 2003 was a close one. Fast Forward is to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles what X-Men: Evolution was to X-Men (an insult to the original series).
Jack

[CyberCubed]

^ X-men Evolution was hardly an insult to the 90's X-men, it was a great cartoon on its own terms.

People need to stop saying everything is crap just because its not like the show you grew up with. That's why so many old toon TMNT fans never gave the 2k3 series a chance because it was "too different."

That's why the 2k3 series got so much unwarrented hate by people just because it didn't have Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady and the Technodrome.

[Jo Dawn]

Then watch The Lost Season that's what I was saying. It's the real ending to the series. It wraps up everything into a nice little package.

I knoooow that, heh. Maybe I'm not phrasing this correctly.

I mean, have it on TV where EVERYone can see it, like how the 2K3 series was available on TV. Not having to search for it and all that.

[ZariusTwo]

^ X-men Evolution was hardly an insult to the 90's X-men, it was a great cartoon on its own terms.

Agreed. Evolution has a cult fanbase, did it's own thing, and is actually seen by most as a definitive X-Men cartoon, and the first original one of it's kind given how much of the 1990's series was influenced by Claremount adaptations and other older storylines.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Agreed. Evolution has a cult fanbase, did it's own thing, and is actually seen by most as a definitive X-Men cartoon, and the first original one of it's kind given how much of the 1990's series was influenced by Claremount adaptations and other older storylines.

I really loved the fact that Evolution wasn't so Wolverine heavy, which alone makes it a winner in my book.

[Sage Ninja]

what ever happens I just hope to God that the gritty comic book feel of the show returns and the mature complex character depictions is brought back. I'll never forgive FF for watering down the turtles characters :|

[jenna]

what ever happens I just hope to God that the gritty comic book feel of the show returns and the mature complex character depictions is brought back. I'll never forgive FF for watering down the turtles characters :|

Seconded. :)

[VaughnMichael]

yeah me three I really hope we have endless season of the shredder, and then when he goes some one else becomes him then I hope we have some spooky demon shredder and oh maybe an alien shredder with a shredder hand puppet who speaks in shredder while shredder shredder shredder shredder.:roll:

[Courk]

I didn't mind X-Men: Evolution. I adore Nightcrawler, and he seemed to be in Evolution more than I remember in the original series. Not having much experience with FF, I can't say how I think it compares with that.

[Ratchet]

Well, even if the show does come to a complete stop, at least we have the comics.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

*crickets*






















....I'm just messin' with ya, Ratchet. ;)

[Spitfire]

I knoooow that, heh. Maybe I'm not phrasing this correctly.

I mean, have it on TV where EVERYone can see it, like how the 2K3 series was available on TV. Not having to search for it and all that.

Oh yeah well everyone wants that haha My bad

[FlawedCoil82]

^ X-men Evolution was hardly an insult to the 90's X-men, it was a great cartoon on its own terms.

People need to stop saying everything is crap just because its not like the show you grew up with. That's why so many old toon TMNT fans never gave the 2k3 series a chance because it was "too different."

That's why the 2k3 series got so much unwarrented hate by people just because it didn't have Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady and the Technodrome.


When people change things that do not need to be changed, they are saying "hey we can do it better" therefore setting high standards which are expected to be met. Otherwise it is an insult to the original series which got cancelled in exchange for something else. X-Men: Evolution had absolutely nothing on the X-Men 90's cartoon. I will debate that one with God Himself if He wishes. The same could be said for FF. They were saying "we can do it better than the 2003 series" and they were wrong. Plain and simple. I can't even read X-Men comics anymore because Marvel cannot stop ruining them. They were PERFECT in the early to mid 90's. Had awesome costumes, characters, line-ups and powers. Marvel keeps destroying X-Men by changing their costumes, making this member leave, making that member lose their powers and bringing in a bunch of new characters that no one cares about.
Jack

[VaughnMichael]

When people change things that do not need to be changed, they are saying "hey we can do it better" therefore setting high standards which are expected to be met. Otherwise it is an insult to the original series which got cancelled in exchange for something else. X-Men: Evolution had absolutely nothing on the X-Men 90's cartoon. I will debate that one with God Himself if He wishes. The same could be said for FF. They were saying "we can do it better than the 2003 series" and they were wrong. Plain and simple. I can't even read X-Men comics anymore because Marvel cannot stop ruining them. They were PERFECT in the early to mid 90's. Had awesome costumes, characters, line-ups and powers. Marvel keeps destroying X-Men by changing their costumes, making this member leave, making that member lose their powers and bringing in a bunch of new characters that no one cares about.
Jack
Um that's not what they said with the 2k3 series by changing it into Fast Forward the reason it was changed was to make it more kid friendly and that's exactly what they did.

[Ratchet]

*crickets*






















....I'm just messin' with ya, Ratchet. ;)

:P You might joke, but I'm serious. I think too many people get wound up in the TV series. The comics have always had just as good, if not better story arcs and they're geared towards the general demographic that visits this board. Even the stories the cartoons are based on are better in the comics. Everyone complains about how FF kiddified the Turtles, but it's a cartoon show aimed at a particular demographic. Our age group has the comics, which are floundering in sales because we all get too wound up in a TV show!

[Warhorse]

^ X-men Evolution was hardly an insult to the 90's X-men, it was a great cartoon on its own terms.

People need to stop saying everything is crap just because its not like the show you grew up with. That's why so many old toon TMNT fans never gave the 2k3 series a chance because it was "too different."

That's why the 2k3 series got so much unwarrented hate by people just because it didn't have Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady and the Technodrome.

Does this make you proud of me. I was a big old toon fan. I heard about the new toon, and for the first two episodes I saw, I revolted on the no pupils thing. But I got over it and now love that show far more than the old toon!

[Ratchet]

When people change things that do not need to be changed, they are saying "hey we can do it better" therefore setting high standards which are expected to be met. Otherwise it is an insult to the original series which got cancelled in exchange for something else. X-Men: Evolution had absolutely nothing on the X-Men 90's cartoon. I will debate that one with God Himself if He wishes. The same could be said for FF. They were saying "we can do it better than the 2003 series" and they were wrong. Plain and simple. I can't even read X-Men comics anymore because Marvel cannot stop ruining them. They were PERFECT in the early to mid 90's. Had awesome costumes, characters, line-ups and powers. Marvel keeps destroying X-Men by changing their costumes, making this member leave, making that member lose their powers and bringing in a bunch of new characters that no one cares about.
Jack

Okay, what if nothing changed? What if it was all exactly the same as it was back in the 90's? Just think about that. What if the last 15 years of X-Continuity had all been based around the 90's Xmen and didn't change? Or hang on, how about if Gwen Stacy wasn't killed in Spider-man, or if they never decided to give Spidey the black costume? What if Shadow was never brought into the Turtles? What if House of M never happened? You see a pattern forming? Repetition is a tiresome thing, and without change, stories and characters can't progress. You might not like it, but that's not saying everyone else thinks the same way, and clearly they don't otherwise they wouldn't've changed. It's like people blowing chunks when Spidey unmasked, the story opportunities expand immensely when you do something like that, but fans don't ever seem to see that. :ohwell:

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

When people change things that do not need to be changed, they are saying "hey we can do it better" therefore setting high standards which are expected to be met. Otherwise it is an insult to the original series which got cancelled in exchange for something else. X-Men: Evolution had absolutely nothing on the X-Men 90's cartoon. I will debate that one with God Himself if He wishes. The same could be said for FF. They were saying "we can do it better than the 2003 series" and they were wrong. Plain and simple. I can't even read X-Men comics anymore because Marvel cannot stop ruining them. They were PERFECT in the early to mid 90's. Had awesome costumes, characters, line-ups and powers. Marvel keeps destroying X-Men by changing their costumes, making this member leave, making that member lose their powers and bringing in a bunch of new characters that no one cares about.
Jack

Marvel was crap in the mid 90's. Too much Wolverine, Venom, the Clone Saga, Rob Liefield.

I think I made my point.

[Jo Dawn]

Oh yeah well everyone wants that haha My bad

No problem, lol. Kinda my bad, too. I could not think of the right way to put it, hehe.

[FlawedCoil82]

Okay, what if nothing changed? What if it was all exactly the same as it was back in the 90's? Just think about that. What if the last 15 years of X-Continuity had all been based around the 90's Xmen and didn't change? Or hang on, how about if Gwen Stacy wasn't killed in Spider-man, or if they never decided to give Spidey the black costume? What if Shadow was never brought into the Turtles? What if House of M never happened? You see a pattern forming? Repetition is a tiresome thing, and without change, stories and characters can't progress. You might not like it, but that's not saying everyone else thinks the same way, and clearly they don't otherwise they wouldn't've changed. It's like people blowing chunks when Spidey unmasked, the story opportunities expand immensely when you do something like that, but fans don't ever seem to see that. :ohwell:


Actually I wouldn't have complained in the least if X-Men stayed the same as they were back in the 90's. There are dozens of stories I would have loved to see take places featuring the 90's X-Men but they never happened. Once Wolverine lost his adamantium in #25, X-Men was on a downward fall from that point on. I loved X-Men Adventures the best (even though it was the cartoon) only because it featured the X-Men the way that I loved them the best (until the artwork went to hell in the middle of the 3rd season). But X-Men were much more popular in the 90's because Marvel had a perfect team. Then they decided to screw themselves by doing the Age Of Apocalypse storyline and after that X-Men never recovered. Onslaught was decent but "feral" Wolverine looked ridiculous. Then when the movies came out they went to the boring black costumes...I didnt even bother buying those. Then they tried to redeem themselves with #156 onward but Rogue losing her super strength and flying ability sucked bad. But as long as she was in her normal green and yellow uniform I didn't complain, but (as Marvel always does) they decided to screw themselves over again and move her back out of that costume and put her in that ridiculous boring hooded green robe again. So I am tired of all the changes Marvel keeps making to X-Men. I either want the normal, PERFECT X-Men team back (Wolverine, Professor X, Rogue, Storm, Beast, Gambit, Jean Grey, Archangel, Iceman, Colossus, Psylocke, Cyclops, Jubilee, etc.) or else I couldn't care less where the X-Men go from here. The same for TMNT. I either want back the ones where they used real martial arts weapons (2003) or I'd rather have no TMNT at all.
Jack

[Ratchet]

See if you want it so bad, then just go with the comics. Fast Forward, once again, is aimed at children. IF older fans like it, sweet, more viewers, but if not it doesn't particularly matter because they're not the core audience! With everything that's happened in the X-universe, it doesn't seem particularly likely that you'll have that team again for a long while. And why say something was terrible when you didn't even bother reading them?

[nimrod]

Actually I wouldn't have complained in the least if X-Men stayed the same as they were back in the 90's. There are dozens of stories I would have loved to see take places featuring the 90's X-Men but they never happened. Once Wolverine lost his adamantium in #25, X-Men was on a downward fall from that point on. I loved X-Men Adventures the best (even though it was the cartoon) only because it featured the X-Men the way that I loved them the best (until the artwork went to hell in the middle of the 3rd season). But X-Men were much more popular in the 90's because Marvel had a perfect team. Then they decided to screw themselves by doing the Age Of Apocalypse storyline and after that X-Men never recovered. Onslaught was decent but "feral" Wolverine looked ridiculous. Then when the movies came out they went to the boring black costumes...I didnt even bother buying those. Then they tried to redeem themselves with #156 onward but Rogue losing her super strength and flying ability sucked bad. But as long as she was in her normal green and yellow uniform I didn't complain, but (as Marvel always does) they decided to screw themselves over again and move her back out of that costume and put her in that ridiculous boring hooded green robe again. So I am tired of all the changes Marvel keeps making to X-Men. I either want the normal, PERFECT X-Men team back (Wolverine, Professor X, Rogue, Storm, Beast, Gambit, Jean Grey, Archangel, Iceman, Colossus, Psylocke, Cyclops, Jubilee, etc.) or else I couldn't care less where the X-Men go from here. The same for TMNT. I either want back the ones where they used real martial arts weapons (2003) or I'd rather have no TMNT at all.
Jack


The issues of X-Men with the black costumes from (I think) 116 to 154 was Grant Morrisons run. While it was completely diffferent than any standard X-Men type stuff, the writing and stories came together very well. You should give it a chance and you might be surprised. As for the stories since then, they have gone back to the more standard costumes (with some even going further back like Rogues). Most of the newer stories are faily bland though (I am enjoying the current Rise and Fall of the Shiar story though).

Anyways, as for the comparisons with the 2 X-Men series and the TMNT 2K3 and FF:
The 90s X-Men cartoon and X-Men Evolution where both good in their own ways. I will always be partial to the 90s toon because that's what I grew up with and I loved all the comic adaptations. Evolution still was done pretty well and was some nice fresh material.
FF compared to the 2k3 TMNT series however is no comparison even though some of the episodes I've really enjoyed.

Sorry for ranting but I'm also an X-Men buff. 8)

[X]

Well I have said it before and will say it again, their are bad things people pick out about FF that may be there for a reason. Take for example, a poster who said that FF watered down the Turtles. Imagine you were a TMNT. Ok, so you've lived your life in the shadows (for the entire duration of their existance in comics and cartoons.) Now you're bunked up in a dank sewer, having to sneak out topside, or only go out when bad things happen (cliched in any form.) Now imagine you're in a place where you are not stereotyped? What would you do? Would you forget yourself, and everything you learned and mellow out, and adapt to the scenario?

If you were to go to your job one day, and saw your bosses jumping on desks, throwing footballs throughout the building, and they told you to lighten up, would you? Or would you remain a sourpuss who abides by the book? To me, the Turtles owe it to themselves to slack off. Like it or not, things needed to change, and I think that's what I love so much about FF that anytime I watch 2k3 on DVD, I end up going straight to number 386, and 387 in my 400 disc DVD player. Those two slots being FF vol. 1 discs 1 and 2. It gets seriously old after awhile. Same old **** just a different day as DMX would put it. Wake up in sewer, go to bed in sewer, fight bad guys throughout the day (which they do in FF,) make sure you stay hidden, always get the same lecture from the same rat, the crap gets very old.

FF remedied that. They get to slack off. The rat isn't such a bitchy fool, and let the sun shine on his butt for once, his lectures were getting tired, famous ninja said this, famous ninja said that, the world won't understand you - *slaps Splinter crosseyed* "HEARD IT BEFORE!" Now they get to live how normal people would. Raph gets to sit amongst a wrestling match, Mikey gets to visit a trveling museum of 20th century culture, and gets so giddy you'd think he's about to have a nosebleed. Sometimes I look at FF after multiple viewings and find it holds my interest more then 2K3 was. Sure 2K3 has some awesome stories, but when are the Turtles going to lose? Why do they always have to win, or win in time? That's where stuff gets watered down, when everything is so cliche.

If I ever write a cartoon, which I am in the process of doing, I actually have it so one of the members of the team I am putting together, actually *GASP* dies. Yes, it isn't bad to make someone care for something and take it away. You can't win them all. Ok I'm rambling there. Point blank, FF is a fresh breath of air, and a good relaxer for what I hope is more 2k3 episodes. Had 2k3 aired this season, I would've gotten bored with the same old crap. Turtles win, Karai whines, Bishop continues to sound like a queer who frequents the Blue Oyster Bar from Police Academy (even though Bishop is more badass then Shredder,) Stockman wishing he could die but whines, and Hun, HA! OH CRUD! How many times does he have to use that? That's what I would've thought had 2k3 aired this season. With FF giving something different, I want 2k3 back, knowing I got to see what the otherside of the road can be like.

-X-

[ZariusTwo]

If you were to go to your job one day, and saw your bosses jumping on desks, throwing footballs throughout the building, and they told you to lighten up, would you? Or would you remain a sourpuss who abides by the book? To me, the Turtles owe it to themselves to slack off. Like it or not, things needed to change, and I think that's what I love so much about FF that anytime I watch 2k3 on DVD, I end up going straight to number 386, and 387 in my 400 disc DVD player. Those two slots being FF vol. 1 discs 1 and 2. It gets seriously old after awhile. Same old **** just a different day as DMX would put it. Wake up in sewer, go to bed in sewer, fight bad guys throughout the day (which they do in FF,) make sure you stay hidden, always get the same lecture from the same rat, the crap gets very old.

...Errrm...to YOU perhaps, but not to anyone else. Don't like it, switch the heck off.

[VaughnMichael]

...Errrm...to YOU perhaps, but not to anyone else. Don't like it, switch the heck off.
I really agree and why would anyone complain about that it's not like it's anything new it's been happening from the very start of tv tmnt.
It happend in the comics, it happend in the 80's-90's, it happend in 2k3, and now FF, And I'm sure all the same stuff is bound to happen when the next show comes along also.

[tOkKa]

-->> ..guess i am kinda scared..
http://sivinkit.net/archives/puppy1.jpg

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

:P You might joke, but I'm serious. I think too many people get wound up in the TV series. The comics have always had just as good, if not better story arcs and they're geared towards the general demographic that visits this board. Even the stories the cartoons are based on are better in the comics. Everyone complains about how FF kiddified the Turtles, but it's a cartoon show aimed at a particular demographic. Our age group has the comics, which are floundering in sales because we all get too wound up in a TV show!

I agree that for the most part, the comics indeed have better stories. However, I'm going to have to disagree about the reason why the comics are failing. It's not that we are too wrapped up in the TV shows, it's just that TV shows are just more accessible. Do you know how many people here complain of the comic shops not bothering to even carry the comics anymore? Quite a few. Also, not everyone is a comicbook reader. And to the casual viewer of the show, they may think the cartoon IS all there is to the franchise. I'll be honest with you, before I found this site, I didn't know that there were comics, and I certainly didn't know they were still being printed. All I had to go on was a cartoon. Maybe the comics would do better if there was a better way to let the general public know they still exist.

[tOkKa]

I agree that for the most part, the comics indeed have better stories. However, I'm going to have to disagree about the reason why the comics are failing. It's not that we are too wrapped up in the TV shows, it's just that TV shows are just more accessible. Do you know how many people here complain of the comic shops not bothering to even carry the comics anymore? Quite a few. Also, not everyone is a comicbook reader. And to the casual viewer of the show, they may think the cartoon IS all there is to the franchise. I'll be honest with you, before I found this site, I didn't know that there were comics, and I certainly didn't know they were still being printed. All I had to go on was a cartoon. Maybe the comics would do better if there was a better way to let the general public know they still exist.

-->> ..well isn't the comic industry as a whole.. a very shakey enterprise within' itself..

.. how many factors is everyone waging ??

.. Turtles is Global .. everywhere ..

..10 x more accessible in places like India than it was say even 10 years ago..

.. i'm so confused by all this.. :sick:

too many variables.. too too many ..

..my head is spinnin' again ..
http://www.logcabinkennels.net/puppies.summer2005.jpg

[Sparvid]

Okay, what if nothing changed? What if it was all exactly the same as it was back in the 90's? Just think about that. What if the last 15 years of X-Continuity had all been based around the 90's Xmen and didn't change? Or hang on, how about if Gwen Stacy wasn't killed in Spider-man, or if they never decided to give Spidey the black costume? What if Shadow was never brought into the Turtles? What if House of M never happened? You see a pattern forming? Repetition is a tiresome thing, and without change, stories and characters can't progress. You might not like it, but that's not saying everyone else thinks the same way, and clearly they don't otherwise they wouldn't've changed. It's like people blowing chunks when Spidey unmasked, the story opportunities expand immensely when you do something like that, but fans don't ever seem to see that. :ohwell:
If nothing changed, there would be five X-Men, going to school at Xavier's mansion...

[The Shelf]

If nothing changed, there would be five X-Men, going to school at Xavier's mansion...

And I think we can all agree that would be a terrible thing.

[iris]

Maybe the comics would do better if there was a better way to let the general public know they still exist.
Well, that's a given. Mirage has no marketing other than the website and word of mouth, so increasing publicity would increase demand at least to some extent. My marketing company actually focuses on stuff like that for small studios and indie artists. But like Tokka said, the most of the comic industry is halfway onto the backburner. (The puppies are very expressive, btw, tokka. lol :))

[VaughnMichael]

ok can you guys seriously take the x-men talk to another thread...:roll:

[NoPressApril]

Well I have said it before and will say it again, their are bad things people pick out about FF that may be there for a reason. Take for example, a poster who said that FF watered down the Turtles. Imagine you were a TMNT. Ok, so you've lived your life in the shadows (for the entire duration of their existance in comics and cartoons.) Now you're bunked up in a dank sewer, having to sneak out topside, or only go out when bad things happen (cliched in any form.) Now imagine you're in a place where you are not stereotyped? What would you do? Would you forget yourself, and everything you learned and mellow out, and adapt to the scenario?
Bishop continues to sound like a queer who frequents the Blue Oyster Bar from Police Academy

-X-

I don't know what I would do in a place that I wasn't stereotyped but dude if your gonna use big ole original terms like queer ya don't need to be preaching about sterotypes. Thanks.

[X]

Actually I got the whole idea of Bishop being gay from a friend who watches the episodes as I record them each week. He thinks Bishop sounds like a homo. We laugh about it at times, he'll start talking like Bishop but say fruity stuff homosexuals would say, as if he's talking to the Turtles. So I would guess he's actually stereotyping.

I used to go fagbashing when I was younger with some friends, but hey, everyone was young and stupid at one point in time. Being 28 you kinda look back at the dumb stuff you do, and laugh, or regret your actions. So back then I stereotyped, but now I'm just quoting my friend. I think Bishop kicks ass even though my friend has a point about his voice. :D

Actually I did think of the Police Academy (any Blue Oyster scene,) films when making that post, so maybe I did stereotype a bit. However, my point is, the Turtles aren't labled freaks by the outside world, because the outside world is a mix of everything in 2105. So they for once, aren't going to be stereotyped. As for the real world, everyone will be stereotyped. Heck I even stereotype myself at times for fun.

-X-

[VaughnMichael]

Actually I got the whole idea of Bishop being gay from a friend who watches the episodes as I record them each week. He thinks Bishop sounds like a homo. We laugh about it at times, he'll start talking like Bishop but say fruity stuff homosexuals would say, as if he's talking to the Turtles. So I would guess he's actually stereotyping.

I used to go fagbashing when I was younger with some friends, but hey, everyone was young and stupid at one point in time. Being 28 you kinda look back at the dumb stuff you do, and laugh, or regret your actions. So back then I stereotyped, but now I'm just quoting my friend. I think Bishop kicks ass even though my friend has a point about his voice. :D

Actually I did think of the Police Academy (any Blue Oyster scene,) films when making that post, so maybe I did stereotype a bit. However, my point is, the Turtles aren't labled freaks by the outside world, because the outside world is a mix of everything in 2105. So they for once, aren't going to be stereotyped. As for the real world, everyone will be stereotyped. Heck I even stereotype myself at times for fun.

-X-
I'm sorta looking now right here at this post and seeing the dumbs tuff you're doing now...:roll:

[NoPressApril]

Actually I got the whole idea of Bishop being gay from a friend who watches the episodes as I record them each week. He thinks Bishop sounds like a homo. We laugh about it at times, he'll start talking like Bishop but say fruity stuff homosexuals would say, as if he's talking to the Turtles. So I would guess he's actually stereotyping.

I used to go fagbashing when I was younger with some friends, but hey, everyone was young and stupid at one point in time. Being 28 you kinda look back at the dumb stuff you do, and laugh, or regret your actions. So back then I stereotyped, but now I'm just quoting my friend. I think Bishop kicks ass even though my friend has a point about his voice. :D

Actually I did think of the Police Academy (any Blue Oyster scene,) films when making that post, so maybe I did stereotype a bit. However, my point is, the Turtles aren't labled freaks by the outside world, because the outside world is a mix of everything in 2105. So they for once, aren't going to be stereotyped. As for the real world, everyone will be stereotyped. Heck I even stereotype myself at times for fun.

-X-

Yeah i'm stereotyping you a little bit myself right now. I'm seeing a mix between one of those banjo playing possums from Tiny Toon Adventures and Corky from Life Goes On and i'll "laugh about that from time to time" how you durrin. I'm glad to hear that you can look back at your "young and stupid" days but from the things that you say here you must not have to look too far back to find the latter. Oh and as far as your quotable little friend is concerned, the only point he's ever going to have is the one that he gets while watching wrestling, the one that he covers up with a throw pillow while running to the bathroom. How you durrin.

[CyberCubed]

Isn't it great to see what this thread has turned into?

We went from news about FF ending, to random conspiracy theories, to the show becoming more like the movie, to Murphy coming here and setting things straight, to talk about X-men cartoons, and now we're talking about stereotypes and hated-filled posts.

Makes you wonder what Murphy thinks if he ever comes back to this thread.

[VaughnMichael]

Isn't it great to see what this thread has turned into?

We went from news about FF ending, to random conspiracy theories, to the show becoming more like the movie, to Murphy coming here and setting things straight, to talk about X-men cartoons, and now we're talking about stereotypes and hated-filled posts.

Makes you wonder what Murphy thinks if he ever comes back to this thread.
I asked Murphy to come here, I've asked people to stop the moronic bashing poor choice of word posts as well as the x-men ones. I must be on ignore or something but maybe I should just start typing in all caps.
Maybe then People will notice..:roll:

[Spitfire]

Isn't it great to see what this thread has turned into?

We went from news about FF ending, to random conspiracy theories, to the show becoming more like the movie, to Murphy coming here and setting things straight, to talk about X-men cartoons, and now we're talking about stereotypes and hated-filled posts.

Makes you wonder what Murphy thinks if he ever comes back to this thread.

Welcome to the Drome leave your common sense at the door.

[Sunshine]

:ohwell: I hate to break all this up by doing a silly thing like getting back on topic *gasp* but yeah I didn't really like FF at first and I agree that 2k3 was better but I wouldn't want it to end without closure. If/when FF ends I hope they make the smart/better choice and send the boys home. I also hope that they continue the story when they get back to their own time. I love the turtles and even though I don't have a tv I still watch everything I can get my hands on. I'd hate to see it end and have to wait years for another series like we had to do between the old show and 2k3. I still haven't seen the movie but I am pretty sure we'll be getting it the day it comes out on dvd. And I'd love to see it get a sequel. Beyond that I don't really want to fan the "what if" flames. It'd be nice if things were more certain but since they aren't not much we can do but sit back, wait, hope, and continue tossing feedback at the people in charge whenever we can. ^_^

[X]

Hey I have no probs with people stereotyping me, I gave up caring about names people called me, or any type of bashing when I was in the sixth grade brother.

I love the banjo playing part that was actually awesome. When a friend of mine who I talk to online asked to see what my camaro looked like, and I showed him, he said, "nice dirt." Meaning since I live in Oklahoma City, it must be filled with rednecks and cow slappin hicks, and nothing but dirt roads. It's to be expected, thank god I don't sound like I have a southern accent.

Here's that pic. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/zerox101/IMGP0170.jpg

Gotta love our "dirt roads eh" ;)

Look honestly, I was just posting to post. Offer my advice and opinions, and to converse, which I suppose the last couple of posts against me being slightly negative is in the same light, don't look for me to come back with some witty arguement. I don't do internet fighting, or act - what is the internet term - Emo? However, me stating that the Turtles aren't stereotyped in regards to the topic at hand, is totally on point with my opinions based on this topic. I guess people think I am contradicting myself in some form, even though I am talking about stereotyping in a cartoon and never mentioned the real world. Well until someone (forgot who above,) brought it to real world level, which is when I mentioned my days as a young punk. :sick:

Again though, your opinion is your own, can't deny you your freedom of speech, and I think it's kind of awesome when everyone thinks the south (specially OKC,) is full of cowboys and rodeos, when really we have some of the best damn nightclubs this side of Corpus Christi.

To stay on topic, I wouldn't mind the changes FF implimented if they get back (i.e. everything isn't so cliched, and they wouldn't be afraid of having more filler episodes, and a lighter tone.)

EDIT: OH SNAPS! Forgot Corpus is down south (way down.) Doh!

-X-

[Ninja Tiptup]

Well this certainly is an interesting development.

As for a retooling. A recent conference call with 4kids stated their plans for Fall 2007 are to make their block the home of series that have game tie-ins. I do believe they stated that the TMNT would have more tie-ins to it's video game counterparts. The most recent game is of course the movie game.

The way the new movie is written it can pretty easily slip into the 2K3 universe. Though Shredder isn't "dead". Perhaps instead they will retell the movie in the 2K3 format? Though I didn't much care for the plot of that movie. But I think most of all they just want to get back to basics. Which leads to the question... why on earth did they ever make FF to begin with? At least the ratings are pretty good right now but they'll definently see a drop when people realize new episodes aren't coming for months.

I generally look forward to any and all TMNT developments though so I eagerly await news about the series/movies future/s after the licensing fair.

[Vegita-San]

From what I've been told through Dan, mostly thanks to the growing concern that the series was too 'violent' and serialized, if memory serves. Apparently the foreign folks where not happy with how the show was going, and they once again put treasure to change the show to a lighter format.. But the main impression that I got was overseas liscences made the show change..

[CyberCubed]

Didn't they make Fast Forward because toy sales were declining and ratings for Season 4 were low?

After all, FF was meant to be Season 6 but they skipped Season 5 to air it early in an attempt to boost ratings and toy sales.

However now we know the FF toyline sold poorly, but the movie toys sold well, so now they're trying yet another rebranding to go with what sells.

Hell, this show may go through constant re-tools and rebrandings depending on what happens in the future.

[gobo]

Welcome to the Drome leave your common sense at the door.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Awesome!

[jenna]

Well, they can't keep everyone happy - whomever they pander to it will upset or offend someone else.

I think they would be very wise to visit this wonderful land of tmnt discussion - I think they would learn a lot about the fan base, rather than just guessing what the nations want.

I am reminded of the episode of the Simpsons when Homer went into space and all the equipment at NASA was for monitoring TV ratings rather than the shuttle. It's like the need for ratings completely consumes the point of the programme.

[Courk]

Well, they do need ratings. Ratings determine ad costs, which lead to profit.

[jenna]

Well, they do need ratings. Ratings determine ad costs, which lead to profit.

I know, but it often leads to the detriment of quality.

If it's not profitable, it dies - that's a given, but there are ways to maintain profitabiltiy without guess work and assumptions. I just think they would learn something from everyone's comments.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Ratings are the scourge of the earth. Okay maybe not, but they aren't accurate in the least. I understand that there needs to be a way to guage how well a show is performing, but Nielsen ratings a worthless. There's GOT to be a better way--- increase the sampling pool or something jeez....

[Courk]

I'm not a follower of statistics. I learned enough to pass, but overall I don't really understand it. As someone totally unqualified to make a judgment, though, I agree that Nielsen ratings don't seem like they'd be the most accurate.

[Spitfire]

And this is why Laird is a bad business man. You never EVER sign the property over to a toy company that's just common sense.

And before Murphy jumps in here telling us "Oh no Laird's legal team blah blah" Okay then hire a better legal team either way it stems back to him making it his fault.

[VaughnMichael]

And this is why Laird is a bad business man. You never EVER sign the property over to a toy company that's just common sense.

And before Murphy jumps in here telling us "Oh no Laird's legal team blah blah" Okay then hire a better legal team either way it stems back to him making it his fault.
or who knows how to read a contract...and once again history repeats it's self!:roll:

[Spitfire]

or who knows how to read a contract...and once again history repeats it's self!:roll:

Yeah I know I like signing my life's work away without reading the fine print too.

[Roseangelo]

Since when did Peter sign anything away? :roll:

[VaughnMichael]

Since when did Peter sign anything away? :roll:
Well I think Spits being a bit goofy and over dramatic but as we all know fox took a strangle hold to the 80's toon and castrated the turtles from what they once had started out as.
And as much as I enjoyed FF they did the same thing again but this time playmates and $kids.
I'm not saying he's a bad business man frankly I feel bad that it keeps happening it must be really stressfull for him and the crew at mirage to have to keep getting $hit on like this.
I can tell you right now though all of this has really put a damper on my years of love for Playmates toys.:dead:

[Spitfire]

Yeah I'm goofing around a bit but seriously f*** Playmates.

I wonder if any other shows have had this issue.

[Jester]

Did I miss something here? Is Playmates the devil that makes TMNT suck? Wha?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Yeah I'm goofing around a bit but seriously f*** Playmates.

I wonder if any other shows have had this issue.

Ren and Stimpy had a similar situation where Nickelodeon wrestled control away from John K. and totally raped the good out of the show.

But I don't think Playmates is the problem, they just make shity toys. The problem is these network execs throwing they're power around that interfering with writters and animators and doing what they think is best. That's why there's no innovation or originality anymore.

[VaughnMichael]

Did I miss something here? Is Playmates the devil that makes TMNT suck? Wha?
Yes they and $kids are the reason the show keeps friggin flip flopping so much.
Ren and Stimpy had a similar situation where Nickelodeon wrestled control away from John K. and totally raped the good out of the show.

But I don't think Playmates is the problem, they just make shity toys. The problem is these network execs throwing they're power around that interfering with writters and animators and doing what they think is best. That's why there's no innovation or originality anymore.
Yeah that was so stupid then Nick took the show and made it even more disgusting which is the thing they hated in the first place.
But I can't say I enjoyed Johns new version of Ren & Stimpy it was a bit to much...and not really funny.
& oh no man it's been stated that Playmates and $kids have allot of say in everything FF is mostly because of Playmates.

[Spitfire]

Ren and Stimpy had a similar situation where Nickelodeon wrestled control away from John K. and totally raped the good out of the show.

But I don't think Playmates is the problem, they just make shity toys. The problem is these network execs throwing they're power around that interfering with writters and animators and doing what they think is best. That's why there's no innovation or originality anymore.

Oh I remember that, I was referring to toy companies ruining shows by making them into toy ads.

[Jester]

Gi Joe!!!!

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Oh I remember that, I was referring to toy companies ruining shows by making them into toy ads.

Oh, I can't recall any. Probably the 2002 He-Man cartoon. Especially around the Snake Man arc, where they brought in a new character or vehicle every episode to hawk another toy or variant.

[VaughnMichael]

Oh, I can't recall any. Probably the 2002 He-Man cartoon. Especially around the Snake Man arc, where they brought in a new character or vehicle every episode to hawk another toy or variant.
Wow really? Most Cartoons from the 80's where hour long toys advertisments.
They even made fun of it allot in other shows.
I didn't notice them as a kid but I do see it now: Thundercats, TMNT, GI Joe, Transformers, the list goes on and on.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Wow really? Most Cartoons from the 80's where hour long toys advertisments.
They even made fun of it allot in other shows.
I didn't notice them as a kid but I do see it now: Thundercats, TMNT, GI Joe, Transformers, the list goes on and on.

Yeah I know, but he said what shows were ruined. The writters of those shows knew damn well they were long toy ads right from the start.

[ZariusTwo]

Oh, I can't recall any. Probably the 2002 He-Man cartoon. Especially around the Snake Man arc, where they brought in a new character or vehicle every episode to hawk another toy or variant.

God in heck that season was awful. About four good episodes, the first three, and "The Power of Greyskull" were the highlights of season two, but you're right, that entire arc was a waste of plastic, especially since all Mattel continued to do was sell more He-Man and Skeletor figures than anything else.

I hate that stigma of "toy commercial" though, the 1980's cartoons all rose ABOVE being commercilist, most shows now that do the same thing don't do that at all.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

God in heck that season was awful. About four good episodes, the first three, and "The Power of Greyskull" were the highlights of season two, but you're right, that entire arc was a waste of plastic, especially since all Mattel continued to do was sell more He-Man and Skeletor figures than anything else.

Yeah I hated that. The other Masters were hard as hell to find. And all those damn variants were just pointless. People say Playmates over did it with the Turtle variants, well they had nothing on Mattel.

And the ending of the Snake Man arc made me dry heave.

[VaughnMichael]

Yeah I hated that. The other Masters were hard as hell to find. And all those damn variants were just pointless. People say Playmates over did it with the Turtle variants, well they had nothing on Mattel.

And the ending of the Snake Man arc made me dry heave.
They over did it in the 90's with tmnt and it's a large part of what helped in the demise of tmnt.
But yeah I don't think they over did it this time around I think them being cheap and using the same sculpts over and over helped allot though sure.

[Spitfire]

I'm afraid to even ask who Snake Man is.

[VaughnMichael]

I'm afraid to even ask who Snake Man is.
*face palm* I don't know you...:lol:

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I'm afraid to even ask who Snake Man is.

The Snake Men. A race of snake people who tried to take over Eternia. And they're leader is basically 3 snakes tied together with legs.

That's about all there is to them.

[Spitfire]

*face palm* I don't know you...:lol:

Glad someone got where I was going with that:lol:

[X]

I agree with you guys when you say ratings not being accurate stinks. If they only knew how many people probably DO watch the show, maybe they would see it's worth keeping around.

I guess businesses are all about their money and covering their asses.

Who knows though, I still remain optimistic the bros will get home, but I will miss the FF episodes as they provided me with something different, however I can't wait to slip back into those old pair of shoes.

-X-

[CyberCubed]

Yep, I hope they bring Rat King back, he's awesome.

I'm concerned about continuity, so hopefully this is still the same 2k3 series when the next season airs.

The title of the show will probably change though, as they're obviously not going to call it Fast Forward anymore...will they retitled it as "TMNT" to be like the movie title? Or will they go back to the old logo?

[Andrew NDB]

Of course it'll return to New York. It doesn't make sense to have a theatrical film out there where the TMNT are a very specific way, while meanwhile having a cartoon on the air where it's futuristic oddities and such that's not really recognizeable. Your best bet is going to be to change the cartoon to better suit the theatrical film out there and possibly catch a whole slew of more fans coming off their movie high.

At any rate, the "Fast Forward" angle was done as a last ditch effort to kickstart the cartoon's ratings. With the movie out there, if not earning a ton of money has at least put the word out about TMNT in a big way, so the cartoon no longer needs a "We're in the future, dudes!" gimmick to bring ratings.

[Kendamu]

I hope you're right. And, though it would make things a bit inconsistent in the art, maybe if they're running off the movie buzz they'll make the TMNT a bit less bulky. That's the only thing I have against 2k3.

[Scandia]

I do hope they return to the continuity after Fast Forward ends. That Fast Forward was just a side story that does not mess up the main story. I do think the movie boosted ratings quite a bit.

Granted, I have not watched Fast Forward. But I do want to get back to the main plot and not have Cody Jones be the protagonist anymore.

[trevEk08]

well. i've heard about fast forward being cancelled.. but i'm pretty sure that wasn't referring to the entire TMNT cartoon. I certainly hope not anyway :(

[trevEk08]

and yes i agree Scandia. They can easily throw out the side story and get back to good ol' New York

[Drtooth]

Six, yes, the FF toys sold poorly.

Seven, yes, the movie toys are selling really well..

Okay, I thought the FF toys did pretty well (aside from the asinine action feature varients which always do poorly). I have been trying to find Donatellto for a while, and haven't had any success.

But the movie toys are selling like they are made out of gold and come with free tickets to Disney World. All I ever see is Max, and no one else. I still haven't gotten any of them yet, and I can't find the mini figures anywhere.

That said, 4Kids has no clue how to run a business. They keep bringing out all these big big plans of how something's gonna be the next something else, and they plan all this merchandise for upcoming mo nths..... then nothing. Even though I am not a fan of Pinata at all, I was kinda looking forward to getting a small plush of the bear or something. Not to mention how they effed up with one Piece. Hell, they even planned some merchandising based on Jim Henson's early sketches.

TMNT is the ONLY hit they really have about now, and I am worried about the future of the cartoon. If they indeed make new episodes, why not at least make an ending to FF? They really should have kept it as a smaller scale show. Considering this isn't going to go forward any faster, they should have cut quite a few filler storylines out.

[Ninjinister]

Considering this isn't going to go forward any faster, they should have cut quite a few filler storylines out.

O.O What that a pun?

[VaughnMichael]

Okay, I thought the FF toys did pretty well (aside from the asinine action feature varients which always do poorly). I have been trying to find Donatellto for a while, and haven't had any success.

But the movie toys are selling like they are made out of gold and come with free tickets to Disney World. All I ever see is Max, and no one else. I still haven't gotten any of them yet, and I can't find the mini figures anywhere.

That said, 4Kids has no clue how to run a business. They keep bringing out all these big big plans of how something's gonna be the next something else, and they plan all this merchandise for upcoming mo nths..... then nothing. Even though I am not a fan of Pinata at all, I was kinda looking forward to getting a small plush of the bear or something. Not to mention how they effed up with one Piece. Hell, they even planned some merchandising based on Jim Henson's early sketches.

TMNT is the ONLY hit they really have about now, and I am worried about the future of the cartoon. If they indeed make new episodes, why not at least make an ending to FF? They really should have kept it as a smaller scale show. Considering this isn't going to go forward any faster, they should have cut quite a few filler storylines out.
You know I really think it has to do with what area of the country you live in also cause if you ask me the Fast Forward figures did way better than the last few waves of 2k3 tmnt and I know because playmates was not happy with how the toys had been selling.
People say the new show is doing well because of the movie yeah how about maybe people didnt even know there was a new show.
I love 2k3 and all and I like FF but I'll tell you now while I showed people later episodes of 2k3 they liked them a hell of allot when I showed them the first episodes from season one while they said the animation was nice they got bored fast because they had seen it all before and it wasn't quite as interesting as the old toons way of doing it.
I know allot of people ended up enjoy fast forward over all at this point because it started to change dramaticly over the corse of it's run.
So to say that the movie is the only reason the turtles are doing well seems like a load of flame war bull to me.
I mean you can say what you want but I've got 2 eyes and I have been traveling cross country since christmas those Fast Forward figures are hard as hell to find. The movie figures on the other hand theres so many turtles around everyone in each home across america could have one.
And if they they really think the variants of movie turtles with slight changes are going to do well they really need to think again.
Like You said as always the variants sit forever you would think they would really get the hint by now and see what figures are not selling and sit and collect dust on the shelves...i mean if they really want to make money off these things.
It would also help if these things came out when the characters apear on the show or a bit before not months later then no one gives a crap besides us fans.
It's like really who are these marketing people.:roll:
And I agree they need to give Fast Forward an ending I'm going to be really ticked if it just ends with no warning and switches again.
Do they really think the fans and children are that stupid? I guess they must I mean I know people even kids who where like wht the heck? when they showed the first episode to the lost season then never aired anything else and went right to fast forward.
That was one of the worst mistakes they or anyone who works with the turtles ever made ever including the creation of venus to screw up the time line of things is a fate worse than death for a show.

[CyberCubed]

I'll repeat: Why don't you guys wait to see what happens in the last FF episode before complaining that it doesn't get an ending?

For all we know they may do what Legion of Superheroes did, (for those who don't know, Superman returned to the present time just in case the show wasn't renewed for a second season, but now that it is, he'll be going back to the future presumedly), so there may very well be an ending for FF.

Or maybe they will create an alternate ending like they did with "The King" from Season 1. Its honestly too early to start worrying when we have no idea how this season ends or what's going to truly happen in Season 7.

[VaughnMichael]

And I'll repeate myself also: Just cause I like broken records there so much fun to listen to ;)
Many of us have inside sorces and as it stands at the moment there is no ending for FF it's like poochie from the simpsons it never happend or it's gonna be all oh we are suddenly back in 2k3 or oh wait new movie land now cause once again we want to change the fomat of the show and screw thing sup yet again cause we like jumping onto the fame horse.:roll:

[Ratchet]

Why are we still going on about this? Murph came to set the record straight, and Tortugapower hasnt said boo in response.

[Whitewolf89]

Why are we still going on about this? Murph came to set the record straight, and Tortugapower hasnt said boo in response.

That's what I'D like to know.

Anyway, can you point me at where Murphy said this? (Just a link would be nice, and thankies in advance.;) ) I think I've missed some stuff over the last few days.

[Courk]

Click this link (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=513515&postcount=43):-)

[CyberCubed]

Most interesting part Murphy said:

Two, the show's future will be decided following the Licensing Show (in NYC in June). Only then will decisions be made regarding what direction the show would take (assuming, of course, that the show continues).

What date is the licensing show anyway?

[Ninjinister]

I really don't care who has what "sources". I've learned from experience that fans with "sources" is not equal to official word.

[VaughnMichael]

Yeah well amongst things other people have told me this below was said by a voice actor from the show who voices a brand new character I hardly think the voice actor and some one who hardly ever posts here besides to post his sigs he gets from said voice actors would lie to us.
Murphy or no Murphy who btw came here because I made him aware of this.
He told me TMNT is shelved for the moment, but he will return, so thats cooL!
It came from this thread CLICK ME (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=20234)
I can tell you right now I know the history of how this company works and crap has just been screwed over one to many times for my tastes thanks.
I'm not gonna sit idoly by while they keep screwing over the TMNT because they feel it's good for ratings.

[Ratchet]

Well until tortugapower comes clean about his sources, I remain dubious. Murph (or someone else with a staff listing) is the only one I'll trust when it comes to these things.

[Spitfire]

Cause Rose didn't mention it first or anything :roll:

[Roseangelo]

Actually, I didn't.

[Spitfire]

Actually, I didn't.

Aw well shame on me, but I believe you more then most people on here.

[Roseangelo]

I've pretty much said everything that I know. But I don't have a deep, inside source. I just happened to be chatting with someone who has friends who were working on FF (doing storyboards and such) and she brought it up. All I can vouch for is that production has stopped, which the VA also confirmed.

[VaughnMichael]

I've pretty much said everything that I know. But I don't have a deep, inside source. I just happened to be chatting with someone who has friends who were working on FF (doing storyboards and such) and she brought it up. All I can vouch for is that production has stopped, which the VA also confirmed.
exactly! but it's lies all lies I tells ya people who work on things know nothing about the shows they work on!:lol: :roll:

[Mr. Stay Puft]

What date is the licensing show anyway?

The licensing show is June 19 - June 21, 2007 at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in NYC. Most likely it's not open to the general public, as most shows of this type aren't.

According to the exhibitor list, both 4Kids and FUNimation will be there. How I'd love to give both of those companies a piece of my mind.

If anybody wants more information, you can find it at www.licensingshow.com (http://www.licensingshow.com)

[VaughnMichael]

The licensing show is June 19 - June 21, 2007 at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in NYC. Most likely it's not open to the general public, as most shows of this type aren't.

According to the exhibitor list, both 4Kids and FUNimation will be there. How I'd love to give both of those companies a piece of my mind.

If anybody wants more information, you can find it at www.licensingshow.com (http://www.licensingshow.com)
haha man oh man we should all make a trip there and hold protest signs outside the building showing them what we all really think! could you guys see it haha man it would be great!:lol: :evilgrin:

[Courk]

I wonder how soon after the licensing show we'll know. Is it something that's announced at the show? Do they take info from the show, go home, analyze and plan, and make a decision in weeks or months?

[Kendamu]

I wonder how soon after the licensing show we'll know. Is it something that's announced at the show? Do they take info from the show, go home, analyze and plan, and make a decision in weeks or months?
I think the process involves a dartboard, a big poster with random words on it, and a blindfold.

[Spike Spiegel]

I like FF, and I LOVE 2k3. It just feels like this whole thing is reminiscent of another unfortunate cancellation.

HINT: Look at my avatar:)

[CyberCubed]

Its unlikely for 4kids to cancel TMNT altogether. Playmates will still want the toyline going, and they can't make new toys without a cartoon to sell them with.

A quick look at the 4kidsTV block and TMNT is one of their only major shows left along with Chaotic and Viva Pinata, everything else on the 4kids block is either over and simply rerunning or getting removed by the fall season.

Mirage wants the show to continue (obviously), Playmates presumedly wants the show to be more like the movie so they can sell more toys (obviously), which just leaves 4kids...and they have barely any other hits so dropping TMNT would be a mistake.

I wouldn't say the show is on the verge of cancellation altogether, its mostly being revamped and rebooted at the moment.

[VaughnMichael]

I wouldn't say the show is on the verge of cancellation altogether, its mostly being revamped and rebooted at the moment.
Yes which they really need to stop doing at the drop of a hat...this isn't power rangers it's ninja turtles.

[CyberCubed]

Yes which they really need to stop doing at the drop of a hat...this isn't power rangers it's ninja turtles.

But doesn't this revamp give you guys what you wanted?

Even with a more movie vibe to it, (whatever that means), its still TMNT in the present presumedly using the same continuity from the 2k3 series. Its essentially what everyone was clamoring for, a return to the present and FF only lasting 1 season.

I can see the animation style changing to reflect more of the movie designs, (maybe the Turtles will have pupils in their bandanas now?), but other than that it would be a return to the show we all know and love.

[VaughnMichael]

But doesn't this revamp give you guys what you wanted?

Even with a more movie vibe to it, (whatever that means), its still TMNT in the present presumedly using the same continuity from the 2k3 series. Its essentially what everyone was clamoring for, a return to the present and FF only lasting 1 season.

I can see the animation style changing to reflect more of the movie designs, (maybe the Turtles will have pupils in their bandanas now?), but other than that it would be a return to the show we all know and love.
I'm not you guys I was fine with 2k3 and I was fine with FF the show was progressing just fine.
It doesn't need to change every year to keep being a damn cash cow.
Yes change is good master splinter but not when it's a revamp every time they think it's needed.
And quite frankly I'm going to make the statement that while I enjoyed the movie it wasn't great enough to warrent it's own tv series.
And if the show is cgi which I doubt it would be but if it's 4kids horrid tv cgi I will not be watching this show.
While the designs for the movie are ok they where made for the movie and if they go and change the entire look of the show now I can tell you right now I'm not the only person who is going to be disspleased.
My beef is that it's been said by a number of people who work on the show and don't work on the show that Fast Forward is not going to have any kind of closuer and to me that's just wrong even the lost season wrapped things up and that hasn't even been on freakin' tv yet!
All these network people keep jumping the gun this is one of the times I wish the gun fired and they didn't jump.

[Spitfire]

But doesn't this revamp give you guys what you wanted?

Even with a more movie vibe to it, (whatever that means), its still TMNT in the present presumedly using the same continuity from the 2k3 series. Its essentially what everyone was clamoring for, a return to the present and FF only lasting 1 season.

I can see the animation style changing to reflect more of the movie designs, (maybe the Turtles will have pupils in their bandanas now?), but other than that it would be a return to the show we all know and love.

I wanted an ending to FF that's what I wanted. So no it doesn't give me what I wanted.

The average fan however just wants to complain and since revamping the show will cause them to then their getting what they want.

[Kendamu]

Here's what would personally make me happy. These are only in the order I thought of them.

1) Lost Season hits TV or DVD. I watch more DVDs than TV airings so DVD is fine with me.

2) FF gets a finisher just to give the "ZOMG FF needs a finisher" people (who remind me a lot of the "ZOMG FF interrupted an open story" people) what they want. An episode or five. I don't care. I just don't want to leave anyone out.

3) The show continuing in the present. I don't care if the art style changes to reflect the movie more or not. Personally I prefer the more lean looking Turtles, anyway. But if it were to keep the bulky style I wouldn't care because the TMNT would be back in the present!

[gobo]

That's a lot of not caring...

[VaughnMichael]

That's a lot of not caring...
sure is..what say you we all don't care anymore...just don't care about anything...maybe the earth will stop spinning or something.:lol:

[Kendamu]

That's a lot of not caring...
When it comes to some things it's not hard to make me happy.

[ZariusTwo]

[Edit: Comments like that are necessary. Quit modding me Adolf]

[Courk]

That's uncalled for. You may not like that show, but you don't have to ridicule him and a show he obviously likes. There are other, less hostile ways to express dislike for something.

[Herr_Shredder]

That's uncalled for. You may not like that show, but you don't have to ridicule him and a show he obviously likes. There are other, less hostile ways to express dislike for something.

As much as I hate that show, Courk is right. You gotta calm down, just re-watch the old turtles or something


Still "JACK ARCHER LIVES!!!"

[Mr. Stay Puft]

That's uncalled for. You may not like that show, but you don't have to ridicule him and a show he obviously likes. There are other, less hostile ways to express dislike for something.

I'm glad somebody said it. I happened to like it. It's too bad the series had to end on a cliffhanger.

[Ecto Jedi]

Hmm...A new cartoon with movie-style designs? Could be interesting. Very interesting.

[Scandia]

A change of the Turtles' designs to fit the new movie would be a good thing. But I will be content as long as they give them PUPILS. The lack of pupils is my biggest turnoff from the new designs. It's not necessary. They are good enough ninjas as is. The OT designs worked well.

[Drtooth]

O.O What that a pun?


You bet it was, baby!

I mean you can say what you want but I've got 2 eyes and I have been traveling cross country since christmas those Fast Forward figures are hard as hell to find. The movie figures on the other hand theres so many turtles around everyone in each home across america could have one.


They both seem to be doing quite well. Other than the fact Target cleared them out to make room for the movie toys (which they sold out as soon as they went to a dollar off the regular price), the only ones I've seen in TRU were a couple evil Mutant clones. And they had none in the stock room. I just wanted Don to finish off the set...

Do they really think the fans and children are that stupid? I guess they must I mean I know people even kids who where like wht the heck? when they showed the first episode to the lost season then never aired anything else and went right to fast forward.
That was one of the worst mistakes they or anyone who works with the turtles ever made ever including the creation of venus to screw up the time line of things is a fate worse than death for a show.


Gasp... you mean, 4Kids made a mistake that would screw up a license? I may faint...

Its unlikely for 4kids to cancel TMNT altogether. Playmates will still want the toyline going, and they can't make new toys without a cartoon to sell them with.

A quick look at the 4kidsTV block and TMNT is one of their only major shows left along with Chaotic and Viva Pinata, everything else on the 4kids block is either over and simply rerunning or getting removed by the fall season.



And Chaotic and Pinata aren't doing so well, either. I bet they had all this merchandise planned for both, but nothing came out of it. Of course, other than the prospect of a plush of the Bear character, I could give a rat's kimono about either.

If 4Kids is good at anything, it's aquiring licenses, screwing them up, and sitting on them until someone actually gets a chance to take the license from them. If they didn't lose so much money from having the Pokemon Dub rights taken away from them, they probably would have had more money to experiment with things.

BTW, off subject... is there any truth to the rumor that Funimation bought the rights to One Piece from them?

[CyberCubed]

FUNI did buy One Piece. You can find the news on any anime site.

Anyone know if Dan knows anything about the next season?

[Stephen]

Yes which they really need to stop doing at the drop of a hat...this isn't power rangers it's ninja turtles.

Although PR has an excuse to do that, since the Japanese Super Sentai footage necessitates that it change every year.

[Warhorse]

Well, I dont know if this will mean much, but I was recently involved with a Nielsen ratings questionare and suryvey thingamajig. It was some sort of diary I had to write in, telling what shows I watched and who else in my household, either be it residences or guests who also watched the programs. I got a chance to list 2k3 toon and FF in my report. I dont know how effective this will be in determining the actual nielsen raitings, (I always heard just a select few of the mass population in America have the box that links up to nielsen watch towers, so the actual viewer count for a program is still going to be off) but perhaps my report will boost the ratings up in Nielsen's pov. Dont know. I was just letting you good people know.

[U2WaTCHer]

ok I been away for awhile, so if I get this straight is 2k2003 over? and FF over with no answers at the end of what happens to shredder and everything. Also will this new revamping just be a continuation of 2k3 but just another theme like power rangers does?

[VaughnMichael]

ok I been away for awhile, so if I get this straight is 2k2003 over? and FF over with no answers at the end of what happens to shredder and everything. Also will this new revamping just be a continuation of 2k3 but just another theme like power rangers does?
No one knows for sure but allot of us including myself sure are worried I don't see why they just cant go back to 2k3 tmnt.
I honestly am gonna be ticked off if they start all over again.
I recently sat a bunch of people down and had them watch the first season part 1 dvd set.
They enjoyed it for the most part but found allot of it all to be boring especially the stuff they've seen before.
People aren't as dumb as TV executives or company owners think they are.
Allot of people remember the 80's toon and even more so the live action movies.
I know allot of you will say it was needed but it's just a large reason I think the new show didn't take off to a flying start like it did in the 80's.
I just really hope we don't have to go through another telling of the turtles org. story.

[ZariusTwo]

ok I been away for awhile, so if I get this straight is 2k2003 over? and FF over with no answers at the end of what happens to shredder and everything. Also will this new revamping just be a continuation of 2k3 but just another theme like power rangers does?

The show will return, it's simply in the midst of a severe retooling. All marketing reasons really. Who knows if it'll come back with a different title or return to "TMNT", all we know is that it'll be closer to the movie

As for Shredder, lost seasons, watch them.

I'm glad somebody said it.

I'm glad I ignored it.:lol:

[Kendamu]

Okay.. so we "know" that the series will be closer to the movie now?

When was this confirmed? Or are we all just assuming based off of memos I didn't get?

Someone help me out here.

[Roseangelo]

We don't know anything about what is going to come after FF. It could be more like the movie, but that's something we're not going to know until after the licensing show later this month.

[CyberCubed]

Continuity will probably be kept because there's no reason to confuse kids and pretend the last 6 seasons never happened. It has the same writers and same partners, they're not going to restart with "The Turtles meet April for the first time...AGAIN!"

Not to mention they're obviously going to use the same voice actors for the Turtles and everyone, so it'll probably continue where we left off. As for Fast Forward, who knows how the beginning of Season 7 will start so they may put in one or two throw-away lines about how they fixed the time window and that's that.

If that's how Season 7 is I'd just see it as a return to the darker 2k3 series but with some influence of the movie thrown in.

[Kendamu]

Even if it did throw away the last 6 seasons and went on a movie-themed format, the TMNT wouldn't have had to meet April or have their first fight with Shredder again, anyway.

So, if this big re-tooing does happen, does this mean that it'll be the "Red Sky" of 2k3?

[X]

Wouldn't it be cool if they came back to the present, then the episodes would tell stories before the events in the movie? Like an episode where Raph meets the person who will give him the Nightwatcher gear. Leo goes away for a year, which can be played out over a few episodes, then have episodes which re-inact the movie or retell it for TV, without it being the same, so that episodes afterward can play on mythos started in the movie. Best thing I remember, is that from what I recall, the Pokemon movies actually took place in between episodes of the series that airs on TV. I can't tell as I'm not a huge Pokemon buff, but each movie fits in somewhere. Yea that could be done with TMNT. Have episodes lead up to a new CGI sequel.

Who knows though, so many ideas, so little time.

-X-

[Courk]

I'd be interested to see a few episodes focusing on movie prequel stuff, if that's even close to the direction they're going. I'm thinking 3 or 4 episodes, though, one focusing on each turtle. I'm not sure if Leo would really need one, I think the movie did a pretty good job explaining his point of view. I think any additional information on him could be included in comments and brief conversations here and there over several episodes.

A series of episodes rehashing the movie might be a bit much, though. I mean, it did just come out.

[VaughnMichael]

yeah and we'd have to go through all of the karai stuff again and I can tell you honestly while I really like the character of Karai I'm not gonna sit through all of that all over again.

[Courk]

They could mesh, if need be. It wasn't a major point of the movie that they didn't know Karai, so that could be conveniently ignored.

[CyberCubed]

I think you guys are looking a little too far into this. Making the show more like the movie doesn't literally mean "make the show into the movie."

The only reason this is happening in the first place is because the movie toys sold so well, and if the movie gets a sequal, they want both the cartoon and movie to look similar so kids will get into both, and thus make 4kids and Playmates very happy in the process.

While I can see some movie elements being brought into the show such as Raph being the Nightwatcher and some redesigns, there is absolutely nothing indicating that this is a brand new cartoon based on the movie universe.

Remember, Fast Forward was marketed as a "brand new series" yet it kept into continuity with Seasons 1-5. They can very well rename the show into "TMNT," change the animation (again), and even call it "a brand new series" yet still be in continuity with the seasons before it.

I also believe Peter Laird would be against them doing yet another fresh start, since the 2k3 series has done a wonderful job re-imagining the comics into episodes and he'll probably want to see new comics adapted, not for them to go back and do the same thing over again.

[Jo Dawn]

Wouldn't it be cool if



Wouldn't it be cool if they went back to the present, wrote the whole thing off as a bad trip, told April and Casey about Cody, who them decide to never, ever touch each other again, just to prevent eventually having their bloodline spawn THAT thing?


;) I couldn't resist.

[VaughnMichael]

They could mesh, if need be. It wasn't a major point of the movie that they didn't know Karai, so that could be conveniently ignored.
dude did you even watch the movie? it's a huge part of it that they don't yet know her in that world...which is pretty much going to lead into the next movie I'd say it's a rather large part.
Remember, Fast Forward was marketed as a "brand new series" yet it kept into continuity with Seasons 1-5. They can very well rename the show into "TMNT," change the animation (again), and even call it "a brand new series" yet still be in continuity with the seasons before it.
And see thats the thing everyone seems to be forgetting Fast Forward was planned all along by Peter and everyone else.
I was to come right after the lost season.
Lord people who ignore this fact annoy me to no end.
And I hope thats what they do keep everything they've had but I'm tellin you it's just my opinion but I don't get a good feeling about this all.

[Sage Ninja]

A change of the Turtles' designs to fit the new movie would be a good thing. But I will be content as long as they give them PUPILS. The lack of pupils is my biggest turnoff from the new designs. It's not necessary

I will say that the no pupil thing is a bit of a turn off for me in the new series. But the show did pull it off pretty well, and managed to convey emotion just a good as if the turtles had pupils. If they do have the designs revamped to fit a more movie "look" and they give them pulis, do you think they will give the turtles colored iris's as well? Maybe copying the movies trend of haveing Leo, Don, and Raph with varing shades of brown eyes and Michaelangelo with blue eyes.

[Andrew NDB]

dude did you even watch the movie? it's a huge part of it that they don't yet know her in that world...which is pretty much going to lead into the next movie I'd say it's a rather large part.

And since we know that after watching the movie, even former reporter April O'Neil can knock her down in armed combat, she's going to prove quite the nemesis.

And see thats the thing everyone seems to be forgetting Fast Forward was planned all along by Peter and everyone else.
I was to come right after the lost season.


I may not be in full possession of the facts on this... but didn't I read Peter Laird himself mentioning in the Volume 4 lettercol that "Fast Forward" was something Fox decided on as a marketing tactic? He may have rolled with the punches, but it seems like a general kind of, "Time for a drastic change!" was rammed down their throats by TPTB at Fox... which he and the creative powers that be may not have even objected to that much. They were, after all, pretty much exhausted of Mirage Comic material to semi-adapt by this point.

[jenna]

Wouldn't it be cool if they came back to the present, then the episodes would tell stories before the events in the movie? Like an episode where Raph meets the person who will give him the Nightwatcher gear. Leo goes away for a year, which can be played out over a few episodes, then have episodes which re-inact the movie or retell it for TV, without it being the same, so that episodes afterward can play on mythos started in the movie. ....... Have episodes lead up to a new CGI sequel.

Who knows though, so many ideas, so little time.

-X-

That would be awesome. Fingers crossed.

Wouldn't it be cool if they went back to the present, wrote the whole thing off as a bad trip, told April and Casey about Cody, who them decide to never, ever touch each other again, just to prevent eventually having their bloodline spawn THAT thing?


;) I couldn't resist.

Right on, sister!
:lol:

Seriously though, I may be the only one, but I would like to see an overhall of the VAs from the 2k3 / FF series. With the exception of Leonardo, I don't really like any of them, I find that they are overacting and in cases completely inappropriate for the characters. I felt the 2k7 movie VAs were much more appropriate. This would be something I would hope they would look at if they are revamping the TMNT for TV.

And the pupils. Give us Mikey's big blue eyes and Raph's glaring brown eyes. I though that was beautifully done in the film and hope never to have to peer into empty white sockets again. ;)

[VaughnMichael]

And since we know that after watching the movie, even former reporter April O'Neil can knock her down in armed combat, she's going to prove quite the nemesis.



I may not be in full possession of the facts on this... but didn't I read Peter Laird himself mentioning in the Volume 4 lettercol that "Fast Forward" was something Fox decided on as a marketing tactic? He may have rolled with the punches, but it seems like a general kind of, "Time for a drastic change!" was rammed down their throats by TPTB at Fox... which he and the creative powers that be may not have even objected to that much. They were, after all, pretty much exhausted of Mirage Comic material to semi-adapt by this point.
Ok on the first subject of Karai in the movie land tmnt she may be a pretty sucky villian but we saw her how long?
What your talking about isn't even the same thing as what I was talking about It's pretty obvious she will be in the next movie allot.
And about Fast Forward it was going to happen all along now I'm not sure if it was something that had been changed by playmates or 4kids is beyond me.
It could have been more like vol.4 in the start but they did the retooling of the show.
But it's been stated that it was planned all along even before the lost season became lost.
And I really have to dissagree with the comment about lack of material...it's not that hard to write new turtle storys btw either they could have done allot more with the new rat king, leatherhead, the tales issues we are now getting, complete carnage and radical, etc.

[Courk]

I saw the movie a while ago. The Winters/monsters thing and the reforming the team/family themes were more important from what I remember.

I could see not knowing Karai increasing in significance if there is a sequel, but that'd be her level of importance in the sequel.

This question is a bit unrelated:
I see people saying Fox does this-and-that. I understand that a good portion of people get to watch the toon on Saturdays. I, however, am in the group that has to wait an extra day. If I have my facts straight, Saturdays it's shown on Fox, yet here on Sundays it's shown on CW. Does Fox actually have a part in its production? It just seems odd to me that they would allow another station to air it in some parts of the country, but I don't know anything about TV-land.

[X]

Did you guys forget the part in the movie where Leo and Karai are fighting in the construction site, and Leo says, "you," to Karai?

Question is, why would Leo say that to someone he doesn't know?

-X-

[jenna]

Did you guys forget the part in the movie where Leo and Karai are fighting in the construction site, and Leo says, "you," to Karai?

Question is, why would Leo say that to someone he doesn't know?

-X-

I thought it was Karai who said "You!" to Leo, implying that she knew of the turtles through accounts from the Foot and the Shredder, but not necessarily met them before.

[Roseangelo]

I thought it was Karai who said "You!" to Leo, implying that she knew of the turtles through accounts from the Foot and the Shredder, but not necessarily met them before.

Yeah, it is Karai.

[jenna]

Yeah, it is Karai.

Thanks - I may have seen it 9 times, but my memory sucks! :D

[The Terror of Death]

I may not be in full possession of the facts on this... but didn't I read Peter Laird himself mentioning in the Volume 4 lettercol that "Fast Forward" was something Fox decided on as a marketing tactic? He may have rolled with the punches, but it seems like a general kind of, "Time for a drastic change!" was rammed down their throats by TPTB at Fox... which he and the creative powers that be may not have even objected to that much. They were, after all, pretty much exhausted of Mirage Comic material to semi-adapt by this point.

I dont want to put words in his mouth but when I was talking to Larid I got the impression they just did ff to appease playmates/4kids. He didnt even seem all that excited about ff. Hell, the guy wasnt even sure how many episodes it had (He thought it was less than 26). They were always going to do ff to begin with but they did not want to make it lighter and funnier. He even said ff was the fastest season they ever did. But it probably went fast because of the art downgrade.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, it does seem like the FF season was produced rather quickly. They probably had all 26 episodes ready by last year at the rate they went.

I do really hope that if they go back to more expensive animation that they stick with 26 episode seasons. Part of me wishes Season 5 was a full 26 ep season rather than it being 13 eps, (and then turned out to be 12 eps because one ep was banned), so hopefully they continue with the 26 ep seasons afterward.

[Courk]

In addition to being cheaper, was the art simplified to get it done quickly, or did it just happen to get done quickly because the art was simplified?

[VaughnMichael]

Yeah, it is Karai.
thats what I thought also it was pretty obvious in the movie no one knew who she was.

[HalfcourtGame]

It didn't seem like no one knew Karai to me. Didn't Leo say something like "what are you doing? the Shredder is dead" at the construction site?? I could be way off here especially with Roseangelo and Putrescent saying otherwise. But maybe someone could explain that line to me?

[Roseangelo]

It didn't seem like no one knew Karai to me. Didn't Leo say something like "what are you doing? the Shredder is dead" at the construction site?? I could be way off here especially with Roseangelo and Putrescent saying otherwise. But maybe someone could explain that line to me?

Leo says, "The Shredder's dead! Who are you working for?!" The Turtles recognize the uniform of the Foot, but they don't know Karai specifically. And with the Shredder dead, who's in charge? We know it's Karai, but Leo and the others don't (although it's safe to assume they figure this out by the end of the movie).

[Kendamu]

It didn't seem like no one knew Karai to me. Didn't Leo say something like "what are you doing? the Shredder is dead" at the construction site?? I could be way off here especially with Roseangelo and Putrescent saying otherwise. But maybe someone could explain that line to me?
Well, it's obvious that she's with the Foot but that's about it.

[Sage Ninja]

Seriously though, I may be the only one, but I would like to see an overhall of the VAs from the 2k3 / FF series. With the exception of Leonardo, I don't really like any of them, I find that they are overacting and in cases completely inappropriate for the characters. I felt the 2k7 movie VAs were much more appropriate. This would be something I would hope they would look at if they are revamping the TMNT for TV.

OMG, are you serious!? May I ask why you feel this way? I think the acting performance of the New toon actors are very good, and they've certainly evolved over the course of six seasons. I don't think they over act and I thought the choices for the turtles fit well. I don't see how they don't fit :( . Although I will agree that the movie 2k7 actors did a splendid job in their roles, espicially Karai!

And the pupils. Give us Mikey's big blue eyes and Raph's glaring brown eyes. I though that was beautifully done in the film and hope never to have to peer into empty white sockets again. ;)

yeah that would be nice to see the turtles with colored eyes in an animated version out side the cgi movie. Up until this point the turtles have always had irisless black eyes when they are drawn to have pupils. I think giveing them colored eyes would make them more human like.

[Avatar Yuffie]

The Turtles and Casey show surprise that the Foot are even active in the movie. So yeah, that's an indication they first saw Karai in action.