Why did the Turtles never refer to each other as brothers?

[Rooish]

In the old toon, that is.

[Cascadia]

hmmm.....several times it was mentioned.

One was during a conversation between Master Splinter and Donnie during Green with Jealously. He called them his brother turtles. I think that the turtles saw each other more as friends than brothers but I could be wrong though. I think that there is another time but this one sticks out in my mind.

[Rooish]

True, but it seems like the show's writers actively avoided letting them call each other brothers, usually. And calling Splinter their father. I wonder what the motive would be?

[Roseangelo]

Yeah, the old toon really never had the family vibe in it. Splinter was never viewed as a father figure, no one used nicknames for any of the Turtles, etc.

[Jester]

Splinter also calls them sons in Enter: The Shredder:
"Head upward my sons, try to find a way around all this."
but aside from that and the reference Sci mentioned, I've never heard them call each other brother or sons, but rather friends and students. heck Splinter refers to April as "my child" in Enter: The Fly (What is it with "Enter" titles....:P).

[bullet]

the new toons even threw "teenage brothers" into the theme song...whereas the old toon just had "turtle boys" and "fearsome fighting team." you get the point...they're not really bros in the old one. they were more like a team of teens that played and worked together under the guidance of splinter. i didn't see splinter too much as their father, more like a close mentor.

[Cascadia]

Thank you Jester....I forgot that reference until you mentioned it.

[Roseangelo]

Right. Splinter did say "my sons," but I don't think the Turtles ever said anything about him being their father.

[Jester]

Exactly. Splinter made all the (2) references to family...3 if you again count the one directed at the unconcious April.

[Spawn Guy]

It was probably to avoid confusing the audience. Lets remember the reason they had letters on their belts was so they could be told apart. Despite having diffrent colors wrapped around their heads.

[Jester]

Yeah, and even then sometimes the animators couldn't tell them apart...:P

[Spawn Guy]

The ninja art of deception.

[Buslady]

I cringe when Splinter would call them his friends.

Thanks goodness for the new show, movies, comics; they're a family and like Splinter said in the movie, they are a team.
At least Fast Forward kept the family feeling. OMG I said something positive about FF! *faints*

[Rooish]

Hm, good point, Spawn Guy ... I just don't see how the kids would be confused by them being brothers! Oh well. It just seemed to be strange to me, that the show would really avoid that term when the early writers knew that the TMNT were brothers in other versions.

[Spawn Guy]

Well, I was confused when I first found out. And the old toon really did nothing that much along the lines of them being a family. It was more of a super hero show.

[Rooish]

Heh, maybe I was confused too when I found out. I can't remember. :)

But ... eh ... it makes sense that they are. I mean they look like quadruplets.

[bullet]

well outside of humans and certain mammals...i've gotta admit i have trouble telling most other animals apart. sometimes between male and female.

[CyberCubed]

Actually Splinter did call them "his sons" in quite a few eps, but it was almost all David Wise episodes.

[iris]

It's interesting that the question is "why didn't they call each other brothers?" instead if "why weren't they brothers?"

I think that many people just assumed that four teenagers raised together would be brothers. I did. It's only in retrospect that it looks funny; I actually never realized that they weren't "a family," per se, until someone pointed it to me.

[triplexxx]

Well they're still, for all practical purposes, a family, per se or not. A family is about more than just blood relationships.

[Spawn Guy]

Which the writers didn't seem to bother to adress in the series. It would have helped. I can't make as much of a connection to the old toon as I can with the rest of the fandom because of that.

[aabxx]

Well technically speaking Splinter isn't their REAL father now is he... the first clue would be that they are TURTLES, and he's a RAT. ;)

And who knows whether they're actually blood-related brothers or not, unless they've done some DNA-testing...

[Revan]

In Mirage issue one, Splinter trained his "students" to avenge his master Yoshi. Low and behold, at the end of the issue, Leo impales Saki and he falls dead. (Why can't anyone stay dead?). It seemed more about revenge than family. The turtles were basically trained by a sensei for one reason.

Also in "Turtle Tracks" Leo tells April they are searching for Saki to force him to make their "master" human once more. It seemed early on, that the OT was trying to emulate Mirage's first issue by portraying the turtles as students of ninjitsu rather than a family. They seem like good friends who train together.

NT:TNM was the farthest they have ever been from family, IMO. Leo even blatently tells Venus (in a weak attempt to get some tail) that they are not blood relatives. To my knowledge this is the only time in any incarnation that a turtle knows for sure whether or not they are all related. TNM may not even be considered part of the TMNT universe to some fans but I had a real problem with that little tidbit.

The first movie showed the 5 freaks as they should be, a family. When Splinter is abducted, they are completely torn apart. Raph freaks out and they crawl to April crying. Which I loved. :) I absolutely love how much they care about each other in the movies.

2k3 built upon the family angle which is a big reason why I adore 2k3. We get splinter calling them sons very often and there are even episodes showing the turtle toddlers acting towards their father the way people do.

Probably to most obvious use of the family tone is the new movie TMNT. Wow, by the end I got the point that they were, in fact, a family. I'm sure we all have noticed how TMNT played the family angle. It worked as far as I'm concerned.

[bullet]

yeah, when raph said "yes, father" that pretty much did it for me...not that i questioned they were a family. 2k3 really drilled that into my skull already.

[Andrew NDB]

It could be argued that the TMNT aren't really brothers in the live-action universe. In Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation, which is a continuation of the films (at least, it was intended to be by Eastman) in the second episode Leonardo explains to Venus that none of the Turtles are related by blood, that they're just "pet shop turtles" bred on "turtle farms."

And since NT:TNM is a continuation of the first three films, and the new TMNT movie is a continuation of the films also...

[Revan]

It could be argued that the TMNT aren't really brothers in the live-action universe. In Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation, which is a continuation of the films (at least, it was intended to be by Eastman) in the second episode Leonardo explains to Venus that none of the Turtles are related by blood, that they're just "pet shop turtles" bred on "turtle farms."

And since NT:TNM is a continuation of the first three films, and the new TMNT movie is a continuation of the films also...

Technically yes but I choose to just pretend TNM never happened. :lol: (Am I alone in this?)

I prefer them all being a family related by blood. But if they absolutely have to be of different parents, I like how the new TMNT movie showed them as a family, even "if" they are not blood turtles.

[Jester]

Yeah Drew, but why make the drastic change from family to "Pet shop Turtles, born and bred on a Turtle Farm" to family again. I agree that there are aspects that make TNM a continuation of the "Original Trilogy" much like there are only some aspects that make TMNT a sequel. The TMNT will always be a family to me, despite the OT I wanna say I always thought of them as one, and only now looking back do I see that there were no OT references to "Sons" or "Brothers" save a few exceptions (Like Lil' Leo and Mikey calling Raph and Donnie their "Big Brothers" in Back to the Egg.) and never used the nicknames...like I just did....:P

[bullet]

i was pondering about the chances of a boy walkin into a turtle shop to find four turtles that all came from the same mom. irregardless of their blood, though...they are bros by heart, which is more than i can say for most blood brothers by birth.

[Andrew NDB]

Technically yes but I choose to just pretend TNM never happened. :lol: (Am I alone in this?)

I prefer them all being a family related by blood. But if they absolutely have to be of different parents, I like how the new TMNT movie showed them as a family, even "if" they are not blood turtles.

The new movie seems to have retconned NT:TNM away anyway (or did it? Venus may have just gone her seperate way between TNM and the new movie), so needn't worry.

The "We're not brothers" conversation was nonsensical, anyway. How could the Turtles know this for certain? They were 4 baby red earred sliders in a bowl, all the same age... it's not only possible they all came from the same batch of eggs and mother but likely.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah Drew, but why make the drastic change from family to "Pet shop Turtles, born and bred on a Turtle Farm" to family again.

I'm not saying I agree with the NT:TNM stance on things, but the brotherhood aspect of the new movie could just mean figuratively, or adoptively. Whether by blood or not, they are brothers in every way that matters.

Hell, they call Splinter "Father" in the new movie. Is he really their father?

[Jester]

I can agree with that, I don't think I ever assumed the TMNT were "blood" brothers, but rather a family by choice and adoption.

[triplexxx]

Family by choice, probably the best kind of family.

[Ava Collier]

Family does not mean blood.
Family does not mean blood.

[Andrew NDB]

Anyway, you know the reason NT:TNM even bothered saying that -- to create some kind of weird sexual tension with Venus and the other Turtles without incest overtones.

[Courk]

As I've mentioned repeatedly elsewhere, I don't remember much of the original toon despite watching it when I was wee. As far as I can remember, though, I've always known they were brothers (I think of them as truly related, but understand other views). Apparently even the briefest, rarest mentions of family in the old toon were enough for me to grasp that they were related.

[Jester]

I wanna blame the 1st movie for my assumption of "family" in the OT. The movie had great familial stuff...probably my favorite line, aside from Splinter's speech to Raphael ("You are unique among your brothers for you choose to face this enemy alone, but as you face it do not for get them and do not forget me. I am here my son.") , is when Splinter confronts Danny about being a member of the Foot and feeling that Charles didn't love him and he says, "All fathers care for their sons." Though I watched the TV show a lot as a kid, the movie had to have cemented the idea of the Turtles as a family, adoptive or otherwise.

[Rooish]

I think in NT:TNM, Donatello actually did a DNA test to establish that they could mate with Venus :roll:

But anyway, for some reason I'd like to hope that they never tried to figure out if they were blood related in the canon versions of TMNT. It doesn't matter if they are blood related, and I hope they realise that.

Neutrino, you are not alone in pretending that NT:TNM never happened. I pretend it too. And I think Peter Laird does. ;)

[Jester]

If what you say is true, about NM Donnie's DNA test, then I would go from a harsh dislike of NT:TNM to a deep seated hatred.

[Andrew NDB]

I think in NT:TNM, Donatello actually did a DNA test to establish that they could mate with Venus :roll:

Are you serious? I only missed a couple episodes of NT:TNM during its run, but I don't remember hearing/seeing that. If that's true, that's wayyy over the top. Literally, it would be like the producers going, "Hey, kids, look... we're thinking about hooking Venus up with one of the Turtles... it's NOT going to be incest, OK? We promise! We swear! See? A freakin' DNA test, OK!"

Neutrino, you are not alone in pretending that NT:TNM never happened. I pretend it too. And I think Peter Laird does. ;)

Most assuredly. In fact, Venus and NT:TNM at large are almost certainly the most likely reasons for the dissolution of Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird (NT:TNM being, largely, Eastman's baby, and Laird being very publically against Venus and subtly against NT:TNM).

[Rooish]

Well, hahaha, I mean Don did the DNA test before, for his own purposes. And then Leonardo inferred from the fact that none of the boys were related that he wasn't related to Venus either. And he told her that. Kind of subtly. ;)

[Courk]

That's a great pick up line. "So, uh... We're not related, ya know..."

[jenna]

That's a great pick up line. "So, uh... We're not related, ya know..."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Can you imagine???

With regards to the family thing, there is a lot to be said for a surrogate family, which is a big theme in Film 1. You've got the surrogate families of the turtles and the foot under The Shredder's erm... paternity and the good surrogate family, in which there is love, survives whilst The Shredder's false family without love.

At the end of the day, as you have all said already, the likelihood of the turtles being related by blood are minimal, but it's the love that matters. And that is a theme in all turtles incanations. They love each other and Splinter, who loves them as sons.

[bullet]

The "We're not brothers" conversation was nonsensical, anyway. How could the Turtles know this for certain? They were 4 baby red earred sliders in a bowl, all the same age... it's not only possible they all came from the same batch of eggs and mother but likely.

well, how do they know for sure their real ages are in fact identical? i could walk into the local pet store and there'd be a bunch of turtles (among other animals) at "roughly" the same age...but of course they could've been from anywhere and everywhere. i mean, it doesn't really matter in the end because as you've said...they are brothers in every sense that matters.

[Andrew NDB]

well, how do they know for sure their real ages are in fact identical? i could walk into the local pet store and there'd be a bunch of turtles (among other animals) at "roughly" the same age...but of course they could've been from anywhere and everywhere. i mean, it doesn't really matter in the end because as you've said...they are brothers in every sense that matters.

Because almost all pet stores are buying from a specific breeder who is selling off offspring that are hatching at a specific time in the year. Maybe one egg or the other hatched before the other... but they almost certainly came from the same "batch" (or what-have-you) of eggs from a certain mother.

[Revan]

I think in NT:TNM, Donatello actually did a DNA test to establish that they could mate with Venus :roll:

Wow... just... wow

I can understand what they are trying to do by introducing a love interest. I have often wondered how teenage boys can stand not having some one, anyone, for sexual attraction. Laird is quite adamant in his stance on the turtle's sexuality. "The turtles are not interested it females." But being a guy, I find that a little hard to believe.

Anyway, they went about it all wrong. The whole Venus thing was a swing and a miss.

I try to keep an open mind on things and I have decided that it matters little to me if the boys are, in fact, blood relatives. They are still brothers with a very close bond regardless of their bloodlines. So honestly, I don't mind either way.

[Andrew NDB]

Wow... just... wow

I can understand what they are trying to do by introducing a love interest. I have often wondered how teenage boys can stand not having some one, anyone, for sexual attraction. Laird is quite adamant in his stance on the turtle's sexuality. "The turtles are not interested it females." But being a guy, I find that a little hard to believe.

No, he said they're not interested in human females. And they shouldn't be.

[jenna]

No, he said they're not interested in human females. And they shouldn't be.

I could understand the turtles having feelings for human girls as there are slim pickin's in the mutant turtle world (assuming Venus never existed here) and let's face it they are teenage testosterone filled boys. But to act on any feelings... That would be sick. Ewwwww.

[Revan]

No, he said they're not interested in human females. And they shouldn't be.

Hmm. I must have mis-understood. Anyway it's not like they have any non human females around, except for Venus. The point remains, introducing a love interest was an ok idea, but they went about it all wrong.

[Andrew NDB]

I could understand the turtles having feelings for human girls as there are slim pickin's in the mutant turtle world (assuming Venus never existed here) and let's face it they are teenage testosterone filled boys. But to act on any feelings... That would be sick. Ewwwww.

Yeah, I mean, obviously they'd see ladies on MTV or a movie or something and maybe bust out with, "Hey, she's hot!" but that's really where it ends.

Laird's two decrees: 1) TMNT have never and will never date or be intimate with human females and, 2) There will never, ever be a female Turtle. I believe he directly said that to do either (in the Volume 4 lettercol, I believe) would be something akin to, "Creatively bankrupt."

[Courk]

I'll admit I would probably hate a TMNT love story, even if it was just one of the turtles. The thought of it makes me roll my eyes. However, it's the reasoning behind it that bothers me a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's something like "it'd be like falling in love with a poodle." I think that's a bit of an over exaggeration. The turtles are actually capable of interacting and forming relationships with others, it's just that the line is drawn there. On a continuum, turtle-human falls between human-human and human-poodle. It's not equal with human-poodle.

[Revan]

The turtles are more human than some people I know.

[Andrew NDB]

I'll admit I would probably hate a TMNT love story, even if it was just one of the turtles. The thought of it makes me roll my eyes. However, it's the reasoning behind it that bothers me a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's something like "it'd be like falling in love with a poodle." I think that's a bit of an over exaggeration. The turtles are actually capable of interacting and forming relationships with others, it's just that the line is drawn there. On a continuum, turtle-human falls between human-human and human-poodle. It's not equal with human-poodle.

I'm a little divided on it myself, but I accept Laird's decree. I mean, there's super-intelligent gorillas out there in real life that can communicate flawlessly with sign language and the like... should it be cool for humans to form intimate relationships with them and the like, or vice versa? I see where Laird is coming from.

But don't get it twisted... Laird isn't against the Turtles forming romantic relationships at large. We've seen Michelangelo have a romantic relationship with the mutant Horridus in Volume 3, then again in Volume 4 with the alien Seri... and they even have babies together (unless he intends to reveal that Mike isn't the father, but we have every reason to believe he is).

[Courk]

I'm horrendously behind on the turtles, so I don't know how relationships have been handled. What's odd is that the idea of turtle-alien didn't make me roll my eyes. I guess Laird is right! That or I've been exposed to too many Mary Jane fan fics.

I do want to say that the turtles are a bit more advanced than signing gorillas. ;-) I thought they could do basic things like signing "ball" or "want ball" to mean "Can you give me the ball?"

[Sage Ninja]

I think that it makes sence for the turtles to be attracted to the oppisite sex. I mean mutants or not the are male and teenagers and also I like to think of them as being hetarosexual (God I know I scewed that spelling up "straight") rather than asexual. I think of the turtles as being more human than animal any way, so the whole turtles feeling attraction to a human is the equivalant of having the hots for a poodle I think is just off. I do however agree with Laird that the turtles sexuality shouldn't be explored. feeling attraction is one thing but actually acting on it is weird since they are a diffrent specious from humans.

And as to the turtlesnot being brothers in the old toon goes. I don't get why so many people think that they wheren't. I always got the vibe that the turtles where brothers even if they didn;'t get all lovey-dovey with each other. And I don't think the turtles refering to each other as "best buddy" or "friend" means they didn't consider them selves brothers as well. Since the turtles only interacted with each other and only each other until the met April, I don't find it unreasonable that they consider them selves to be close friends as well. I mean who else would they be friends with if not each oither if they can't goout and interact with other people and make friends.

I think another thing fans need to take into consideration is the fact that in the old toon the cartoon was not as dramatic or gritty as the new toon was. The turtles wheren't really put into situations where their lives where in danger, so you didn't get to see the old toon turtles get all emotional and terrified over the loss of a brother, like the new toon does on occasion. So because of this what you get is a more relaxed interaction between the turtles where theyt are basically just chillin out in the lair together rather than agnst filled scenes where one of them might lose their life.

[triplexxx]

Well Sage Ninja, it's good to see you also think of the old-toon turtles as brothers.
However, about what you said about there being no situations in the old toon where one or some of the turtles' lives were at risk and the others were worried for his/their safety, on the contrary, there were several dangerous situations like this:

*What's Michaelangelo Good For: Michaelangelo had to rescue his brothers who were definitely in danger on Dr. Lessau's island.
*Blast From the Past: Raphael put his life on the line by volunteering as a hostage for Bebop and Rocksteady at the Asian-American Cultural Center while the others carried Splinter back to the lair to recuperate him from the amnesia he got from the smoke bomb.
*Michaelangelo's Birthday: When Michaelangelo left the lair because he thought they forgot his birthday the others went after him, and then when Shredder told him what he planned to do with his brothers, he broke out of his trap and teamed up with Splinter to find and save them.
*Raphael Vs. the Volcano: Donatello's Healthometer tells Raphael he has little time left to live and Michaelangelo gets pretty emotional about in the kitchen with Donatello, and then when they find out the machine is broken they have to go save him before he sacrafices himself to stop a chemical bomb from going off inside a volcano.

It's not all fun and games for them in the old toon either.
I mean sure, at the end of all these adventures you know the turtles get their "happily ever after", but the same goes for the new toon as well. In every TMNT universe since the comics, which I'm not really into, it's a given that the turtles always make it out alive in the end. And I know this all too well, which is why none of the material used in either of the cartoons nor any of the movies ever surprises me.

[Scandia]

I always got the impression that they were brothers. Or at least that they were raised by Splinter as brothers- regardless of whether they were biologically related or not. Plus as various people have pointed out, there are a few "brothers" and "sons" references in the OT. Just because it was not constantly said explicitly does not mean that it did not happen.

[PipingPringle]

I just watched part of an episode of OT (Back to the Egg) and lil' Leo called splinter "uncle splinter" what's up with that?

[Revan]

I just watched part of an episode of OT (Back to the Egg) and lil' Leo called splinter "uncle splinter" what's up with that?

:| uncool. He is there father. They should call him dad or daddy.

I am thinking that the writers did, in deed, go out of their way to avoid any family undertones. That was a perfect time for leo and mike to call splinter dad, but we get uncle! :ohwell:

[Scandia]

I know. Uncle also implies that Splinter would probably be bringing more fun and games than discipline and guidance. That he would get to play with the turtles but not raise them.

OK, so there are cases where people get raised by a biological uncle or aunt. BUT 4 turtles being raised by a rat would certainly not be it.

[Coola Yagami]

yeah, if Splinter's the uncle, then who pray tell is their father? Shredder?

[Scandia]

The male turtle who sired them. Or turtles- since it is not known if they are biological siblings.

But Splinter is the only parent they know. So I still think the "uncle" part is bizarro. As much as I love the OT, the best part about it (besides the colored bandannas and the kickass reporter April) would be the LAUGHS it gives me.

[Rooish]

Whether or not it seemed obvious that, in the OT, the Turtles were brothers (maybe I assumed that because I don't remember ever realising they were brothers), the cartoon seemed to adamantly avoid them calling each other that.

And my guess is that some writer who didn't know much about the canon had Leo call Splinter "Uncle Splinter."

[Time Mistress]

I always saw them as brothers in the old toon even though they didn't say it often it seemed obvious anyway, but I much prefer the ackowledgement of the family bond as seen in the new toon or movies.

[aabxx]

When a group of teenagers grow up together, they would consider themselves brothers whether they were technically or not. I have no doubt they do think of themselves as brothers. Anyway, they spend more time together than brothers usually do...

And actually, on some level they ARE brothers technically (and therefore, genetically) speaking. You just have to look at their blood relations. The turtles are what they are because they came in contact with Hamato Yoshi. Basically, you have to remember that the turtles have been "born" twice. The first time they had two parents (mother and father), and the second time, they got a new parent, Hamato Yoshi, who merged with the genetics provided from the first two parents.

So, they're all sons of Hamato Yoshi. That makes them brothers on some level. If we assume they originally were not blood-related, they could be half brothers now if the sum of Yoshi was half, or 33% brothers if all 3 parents got equal shares. Or it could be an entirely different number.

This basically also means that Hamato Yoshi has the right to call himself their father. BUT... here it gets even more twisted... Splinter is not 100% Hamato Yoshi anymore, as he's been merged with a rat. Splinter's genetics have probably changed so much that it's not so clearcut anymore that he's their technical father (on a test). He's become more like the son of Hamato Yoshi and a rat... so on a test, he'd be.... well I don't know genetics good enough to know what he'd be, but maybe he'd be closest to... an uncle? :D Or some sort of half brother to the turtles? :D Anyway, Splinter still considers himself to be Hamato Yoshi. And Hamato Yoshi is the technical father of the turtles. And... since he's raised them and everything... it's not exactly a far stretch to call him their father, eh... in anyway, they ARE blood related and something more than master and students. :)

Maybe because this is all really messed up, the turtles and Splinter don't want to use simple terms such as "brother" and "father" which don't really do them justice? :D Or maybe the turtles, being turtles, don't have any need for a concept of brotherhood? And maybe male rats don't really have a need for a concept of fatherhood?

[Revan]

^ Nice. I have never even thought of that but it makes sense.

[Jester]

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (This was slightly ret-coned in the Archie universe.) In other words: The OT TMNT wouldn't have grow up together like the TMNT from all the other TMNT canons, but rather just been 4 teens living with their rat senci. (One wonders how much training the TMNT got before they faced the punks and Shredder.)

[Andrew NDB]

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (This was slightly ret-coned in the Archie universe.) In other words: The OT TMNT wouldn't have grow up together like the TMNT from all the other TMNT canons, but rather just been 4 teens living with their rat senci. (One wonders how much training the TMNT got before they faced the punks and Shredder.)

Not much, which is a big reason why the Fred Wolf cartoon's take on the origin/TMNT is pretty much apocryphal.

[Sage Ninja]

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (This was slightly ret-coned in the Archie universe.) In other words: The OT TMNT wouldn't have grow up together like the TMNT from all the other TMNT canons, but rather just been 4 teens living with their rat senci. (One wonders how much training the TMNT got before they faced the punks and Shredder.)

seriously people, just take that scene of the turtles mutating into their humanoid forms in the first episode with a grain of salt. Since it is spcifically said out right in the series that the turtles where babies when they where just turtles, and there is evidence in other episodes that support that time of several years passed from the time they where mutated.

Also aabxx very good point on the whole mutagent thing. Since the turtles where mutated into their current forms by being exposed to Yoshi's human DNA, it is just as good as being thier actual biolgical father, with the mutagent being the mother--er, so to speak. I wouldn't be supriced if the turtles actually shared his own DNA making them his own flesh and blood.

[Fledermaus]

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I seem to recall in Issue 1 Splinter said something like the turtles reached their "current" (fifteen-year-old) size within a year after being hit with the ooze. So how does that play into them starting off as young children? :-?

[Sage Ninja]

we are talking about the old toon universe, not Mirage. ;)

[Fledermaus]

Like I said -- off topic. :P

[Sage Ninja]

Well at any rate in the old toon, the turtles do show affection and concern for Splinter like a child would toward a parent in several cases in the show. One that comes to mind is their concern for Splinter in the Rat King episode where they refuse to fight him and their concern for his well being weh he gets baddly injured with that mediacal ray in one episode. So they show Splinter more than just common respect to a teacher in the old toon, they seevhim as a father figure figue even if they don't always stated every episode.

[Jester]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I seem to recall in Issue 1 Splinter said something like the turtles reached their "current" (fifteen-year-old) size within a year after being hit with the ooze. So how does that play into them starting off as young children? :-?
Yes, but they also later learned to talk. I think the physical growth out did the mental growth. They did mature over the time they were taught by Splinter...in the comics.

[Cascadia]

I do not know if this is mentioned but in the Back to Egg episode.. Mikey said, "Our big brothers will fix you good."

[Fledermaus]

Yes, but they also later learned to talk. I think the physical growth out did the mental growth. They did mature over the time they were taught by Splinter...in the comics.

So, within a year, the TMNT had fifteen year old bodies with infant brains?

...

Splinter = best single dad of all time. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

Y'know, on that note, one thing the TMNT had in the old toon (at least in the first 5 episodes) was that innocence of not knowing how the world beyond the sewers works. In all other media, the TMNT movies, the new cartoon, the original comics, the TMNT knew all about the real world from the get-go.

In the first 5 episodes it seems the turtles have never been to the surface before they met April. They only knew about humans because 'they watch alot of tv', and asked April all sorts of questions while they first walked the streets of New York. Other things like Don not knowing how to use April's answering machine, or Raph literally using a cap-ful when he was using the bubble bath and stuff like that.

[Scandia]

I just wanted to say that compared to the NT, the OT feels mostly like a gag doujinshi. Like one featuring the characters in humorous parodies. The episodes are extremely episodic and have very little continuity. And Shredder just gets in the strangest of misadventurous situations.

But some of the innovations it introduced and have been carried on are cool.

Not to mention this is the absolute best incarnation of Donatello by far.

[Scandia]

It has been a whole day- hopefully I can double post.

But I found yet another instance of Splinter calling a Turtle his SON.

In the episode "Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer the Universe", Splinter tells Leonardo:

"By the power of my whim, you will fear nothing, MY SON".

Totally tubuloso moment.

[Ava Collier]

And maybe male rats don't really have a need for a concept of fatherhood?

Actually, rats are wonderful parents, the daddies just as much as the mommies.

Why did the Turtles never refer to each other as brothers?

I really enjoy reading through the observations, and opinions in this thread...now to push them aside, and get back to the basic question (for me anyway). In my opinion, the concept wasn't done away with entirely, but it was definately muted. I think perhaps to avoid awkward questions being flung at unsuspecting parents. We wouldn't want to force them to have to actually explain anything to their kids now would we?

[Sage Ninja]

Y'know, on that note, one thing the TMNT had in the old toon (at least in the first 5 episodes) was that innocence of not knowing how the world beyond the sewers works. In all other media, the TMNT movies, the new cartoon, the original comics, the TMNT knew all about the real world from the get-go.

In the first 5 episodes it seems the turtles have never been to the surface before they met April. They only knew about humans because 'they watch alot of tv', and asked April all sorts of questions while they first walked the streets of New York. Other things like Don not knowing how to use April's answering machine, or Raph literally using a cap-ful when he was using the bubble bath and stuff like that.

I know I really loved how niave the turtles appeared in the first season of the show. They really had no clue and I thought it was a great thing to make them so unknowing of the world above them. The scene where they are all on the street for the first time in the trench coats and they keep asking April all these questions about everything is classic. And the top the whole scene off was the moment a completely socially challenged Leonardo takes his sword out and slices the table of a card jockey in the street. It was great! Leonardo is in no mood for gambling.:lol:

Although some of the turtles behavior was bizzar even if they hadn't ever been to the surfice. :ohwell: The way the trashed April's apartment was a bit much. It seemed more like they where just misbehaving rather than being genuianly ignorant of how things where on the surfice. Do you honestly believe that the turtles have never seen a telephone or a answering machine on TV and how it works before? Or that you don't fling cupcakes at a picture for target practice, I'm sure Splinter doesn't let the turtles fling food around for target practice, so why the two year old act Leonardo?

Its to bad the writters didn't write more of this transition of the turtles figuring out and adjusting to the above city life a bit more in season two. By season two the turtles seem to be well adjusted enough to run around the city during the day and go shopping and drive with out any trouble, so its like they adjusted over night.