Turtle design - what do you think?

[jenna]

Hey

I'm studying for an exam in financial services (woohoo - tax calculations) and need to elleviate boredom. This is the result:

I was thinking about the different turtle designs we have seen over the years on the screen, and about the good things and the bad things of each.

TV

Old toon - Really cuddly and very benign although sometimes the animation was disproportionate. Found itself by series 3. Turtles all looked the same though, which was a shame. Didn't like the Initials on the belts. The weapons were also often disproportionate and tended to vary in size, especially Leo's swords and Raph's sai.

Red Sky - big improvement. Loved the more precise appearance and especially thier eyes. The proportions of weapons were more consistent. Liked the way that Raphael was less goofy looking (didn't smile as much as the others anymore).

Next mutation - see comments below re film 3 - same applies.

New Toon - really great animation, but I'm personally not so keen on the more bulky shaped turtles. Also, whilst their eyes not having pupils works really well for the comics and still shots, I feel it puts the characters at a disadvantage in animation as you can't see any expression in their eyes (although the animators do a really good job of getting around this by adapting the shape and movement of their eyes.

Fast Forward - animation seems more simplistic and their faces more angular. Don't really like it. Also, Raph appears to have grown which seems odd.

Films

Film 1/2 (I know they are different, but the same comments apply to both) - amazing puppetry - eyes are amazing. Like the way each turtle looks different to each other - like that Raph has scars on his face and shell. Leo is my favourite design - very natural. Mike is very sweet looking. Don and Raph had odd shaped faces to me. Love the long bandanas.

Film 3 - Oh dear, look like frogs.... with squishy shells.... look like the suits are made of chunky spandex...ugh.

TMNT 2007 - Love it - I love how each turtle looks different without being so extremely so like in film 1. I love how their sizes vary (it's quite funny that Raph is the shortest, like those little tough guys with attitude). love the belts and bandanas.

My Conclusion:
1. TMNT 2007
2. Red Sky
3. Old toon
4. New toon
5. Film 1/2
6. Fast forward
......
......
......
100=. Film 3
100=. Next mutation

Would love to know all of your opinions on this matter. Anything to distract me from my studying.

[Rooish]

Raph was the shortest in TMNT 2007? That's really cute.

[johnnyblaze]

Raph was wider due to his being more muscular but i'm 99.9% sure Mikey was the shortest

[jenna]

Raph was wider due to his being more muscular but i'm 99.9% sure Mikey was the shortest

I thought Raph was shorter, but based that on a picture. So I could very well be wrong. He was definitely shorter than Leo and Don though.

It makes more sense that mike is the shortest.

[Warhorse]

I thought Raph was shorter, but based that on a picture. So I could very well be wrong. He was definitely shorter than Leo and Don though.

It makes more sense that mike is the shortest.


What picture?

To me, it looked like Leo was the tallest, but Raph and Don were the same height with Mikey being the shortest.

[jenna]

What picture?

To me, it looked like Leo was the tallest, but Raph and Don were the same height with Mikey being the shortest.

I'll look through the pics and try and find it - I'm probably wrong but will look right away.

OK I found it. To my eyes, Raph is definitely the shortest although my judgement of the perspective may be a little off - now.... how on earth do you post a picture?

[Buslady]

Raph's the tallest and most built. Leo's 2nd. Then Donnie and Mike who are the least built cos their focus is elsewhere on tinkering & science and goofing off, respectively.

[triplexxx]

Well, still, they're all really not that far off from one another in build, barely noticed any difference when I watched it, and based on how well they all fought against the Foot and the Generals, they all must've kept in pretty darn good shape that year.

[Warhorse]

I'll look through the pics and try and find it - I'm probably wrong but will look right away.

OK I found it. To my eyes, Raph is definitely the shortest although my judgement of the perspective may be a little off - now.... how on earth do you post a picture?

IS it those 162 images? If it is, tell me the image number.

Also, if you want to get an image up, start a photobucket or image shack account, upload the image from your computer, and then you can copy and paste a link on the Technodrome.

Oh, because those pics are big, you may have to use your paint programs to minimize the size first. 600 x whatever dimension would be an appropriate size.

Triple xxx, you can definitely see the size of Raph compared to the other Turtles. His shoulders, his neck muscles, are all far more developed than the other three. But I dissagree with Buslady on Raph being the tallest. Leo appeared to tower over the other three considereably.

[jenna]

IS it those 162 images? If it is, tell me the image number.



No it's not. Damn it. I don't have 'photobucket' account - never heard of it.

Erm.... what do I do? I'll try attaching.

yes, he is definitely the most muscular, but I disagree with Buslady with regards to him being tallest in the 2007 film - I know that he is the tallest in other films, but not in this one.

Yay! There it is. He looks smaller than Mike to me. Only just, though.

[Warhorse]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/Warhorse_1978/152600pixels.jpg

Photobucket is an image hosting company. I am lucky I have the 162 images saved on my computer thanks to roseangelo, to upload them to my account.

My scanner, however, something is up with my computer where my scanner seems to not be able to read by the computer. My printer works, but when I scan an image, only half of it is shown, the other half is all black.

But in this particular phote, it makes Raph look taller than Leo. But it's hard to tell, because the Turtles are slouching or in a crouched position, or they are not standing together, but in different places.

Your photo in particular jenna has Raph standing a bit behind the other Turtles (you can see by the placement of the feet). People standing in the back ground tend to look smaller than the ones in the foreground, just like you see in my signature image.

[Revan]

I was thinking about the different turtle designs we have seen over the years on the screen, and about the good things and the bad things of each.

TV

Old toon - Really cuddly and very benign although sometimes the animation was disproportionate. Found itself by series 3. Turtles all looked the same though, which was a shame. Didn't like the Initials on the belts. The weapons were also often disproportionate and tended to vary in size, especially Leo's swords and Raph's sai.
I really liked the first season animation. It was by far my favorite (excluding red sky). I prefered the curved black line down the middle of the nose they had in a few of those eps.

As the series went on, the turtles noses got way to big, and round. I thought 2k3 was an improvement that showed their noses more compact.

Red Sky - big improvement. Loved the more precise appearance and especially thier eyes. The proportions of weapons were more consistent. Liked the way that Raphael was less goofy looking (didn't smile as much as the others anymore).
Agreed and I think most people agree red sky animation was much improved.

New Toon - really great animation, but I'm personally not so keen on the more bulky shaped turtles. Also, whilst their eyes not having pupils works really well for the comics and still shots, I feel it puts the characters at a disadvantage in animation as you can't see any expression in their eyes (although the animators do a really good job of getting around this by adapting the shape and movement of their eyes.
The creators were probably trying to create a darker show that was more related to the comics than the OT. Everyone has the own opinion but I think the all white eyes look bad@$$.

Fast Forward - animation seems more simplistic and their faces more angular. Don't really like it. Also, Raph appears to have grown which seems odd.
... yeah it looks a lot cheaper but there are some good eps. Animation is sub par and their heads had too many sharp angles.

Films

Film 1/2 (I know they are different, but the same comments apply to both) - amazing puppetry - eyes are amazing. Like the way each turtle looks different to each other - like that Raph has scars on his face and shell. Leo is my favourite design - very natural. Mike is very sweet looking. Don and Raph had odd shaped faces to me. Love the long bandanas.
I like how if you took off each turtles bandana and belt you can still tell which one he is. The costumes were quite individualized.

I like the movie 1 heads more than movie two heads but Secret of the ooze had much improved costumes. The plastron looked more realistic. Don and Leo's belts were around their waist and not their chest. We got better animatronics and facial expressions as well. I just wish they would have used the same head structure for movie 2. Each turtle looked different than the first movie. Especially Don. They completely overhauled Donatello. :roll:

Film 3 - Oh dear, look like frogs.... with squishy shells.... look like the suits are made of chunky spandex...ugh.
yikes! I hated movie three costumes. It's like they didn't even try. Good thing they all had different color bandanas or I wouldn't have been able to tell them apart. Their facial structure was exactly the same. They had no idividuality!:x

TMNT 2007 - Love it - I love how each turtle looks different without being so extremely so like in film 1. I love how their sizes vary (it's quite funny that Raph is the shortest, like those little tough guys with attitude). love the belts and bandanas.
I love when their individuality is expressed. The OT drew each turle the exact same. :dead: yuck! They are all quite different and I'm all for anything that shows that.
If they took off their bandanas, you would be able to pick them out easily. I love that!

[Buslady]

okay whatever...there's proof up there, Leo and Raph are next to each other in that pic when he gives leo those sword. Raph's taller. He's taller in TMNT1 as well.

[jenna]

okay whatever...there's proof up there, Leo and Raph are next to each other in that pic when he gives leo those sword. Raph's taller. He's taller in TMNT1 as well.

when the dvd comes out watch that scene. When he says the words "You're going to need these if you're gonna lead us out of here," they are both standing straight (not like in the picture where Leo is bent over) and Leo is definitely taller.

I know that the pic I attached has Raph a bit behind, but to me he still looks smaller.

And I already said I knew that Raph is taller in the other films and noticeably so in fast forward.

I certainly didn't want to start an argument on this thread about height! My perception is that Raph is shorter, and I still think so. Other people mentioned it too on the "It's the little things" thread. But that doesn't mean that I'm right and I'm not going to get defensive and have an argument about it.

Although i do think Leo is def taller :P

[Revan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/family-portrait.jpg

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/family-portrait.jpg

BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNAR!!!! :D

[jenna]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/roseangelo/family-portrait.jpg

Loving you dude!

[Swany]

Heh, I love that pic. It just screams "FAMILY!"

[Rooish]

Raph is definitely not as tall as Leo. He is more built. But he's shorter. I think maybe he and Mikey are the shorter ones. That makes sense to me.

[Spitfire]

Compared to the comics honestly all those styles are ass.

I guess the 4th season of 2K3 gets my vote then on style then. I was never a fan of TMNT with pupils.

[Buslady]

I know he's taller in TMNT 1....


:P

[jenna]

Compared to the comics honestly all those styles are ass.

I guess the 4th season of 2K3 gets my vote then on style then. I was never a fan of TMNT with pupils.

Actually I'm interested to hear about the comics. I don't know the comics well enough to refer to the designs (which is why I only mentioned screen in the opening post) but I've seen some of the designs from the different artists and would love to know more.

[Andrew NDB]

Actually I'm interested to hear about the comics. I don't know the comics well enough to refer to the designs (which is why I only mentioned screen in the opening post) but I've seen some of the designs from the different artists and would love to know more.

Then you're asking the right person.

Officially, according to the "TMNT & Other Strangeness" RPG material that Eastman & Laird endorsed and contributed to as part of the Mirage canon....

Page 96

Raphael
4'6"

Page 97

Leonardo
4'9"

Donatello
5'

Page 98

Michelangelo
4'8"

There you have it. Donatello is the tallest, Leo second tallest, according to source material. Raph is... the runt of the litter. :)

[jenna]

Then you're asking the right person.

Officially, according to the "TMNT & Other Strangeness" RPG material that Eastman & Laird endorsed and contributed to as part of the Mirage canon....

Page 96

Raphael
4'6"

Page 97

Leonardo
4'9"

Donatello
5'

Page 98

Michelangelo
4'8"

There you have it. Donatello is the tallest, Leo second tallest, according to source material. Raph is... the runt of the litter. :)

Oh my God!! Loving you too dude!

I think that's brilliant that tough ol' Raph is a little dude. Bless.

[Andrew NDB]

http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/scan2.jpg

http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/scan3.jpg

http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/scan4.jpg

[jenna]

Coooooooool.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Coooooooool.

Very Cool. :D

[TMNTserbia]

1.Old toon
2.Red Sky
3.Film 1/2/3
4.The Next mutation
5.TMNT 2007
6.New toon
7.Fast forward

[Revan]

Any chance you will post page 99, andrew?

[Rooish]

The posting of page 99 would indeed be appreciated.

Something is seriously weird about the Palladium RPG stats, though. Sometimes it feels like they just winged stuff with no real thought about the characters. Look, Mike's the only one who can drive. And why would Don, of all of them, be the tallest and heaviest? And Raph is freaking short ... really, really short. 4'6''! Teehee!!!

What does M.A., M.E., P.S., P.P., P.B. and P.E. stand for? Does anyone know?

[Roseangelo]

I have never taken the RPG stats to have canonical truth to them. First, while they were published with the aid of Mirage, they weren't published BY Mirage. And second, they were published sooooo early on - 1985ish - that Kevin and Peter were still in the process of developing the characters.

Most other stats that I've seen put all of the Turtles around 5' 2", which makes a whole lot more sense.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

The posting of page 99 would indeed be appreciated.

Something is seriously weird about the Palladium RPG stats, though. Sometimes it feels like they just winged stuff with no real thought about the characters. Look, Mike's the only one who can drive. And why would Don, of all of them, be the tallest and heaviest? And Raph is freaking short ... really, really short. 4'6''! Teehee!!!

What does M.A., M.E., P.S., P.P., P.B. and P.E. stand for? Does anyone know?


-Intelligence Quotient (IQ): Indicates the intelligence of the character. The exact IQ is equal to the IQ attribute multiplied times ten. Characters with an IQ of 16 or better receive a one-time bonus to all skill percentiles.

-Mental Endurance (ME): Measures the amount of mental and emotional stress the character can withstand. Any character with an ME of 16 or higher will have a bonus to save against psionics.

-Mental Affinity (MA): Shows the character's personal charm and charisma. Natural leaders with an MA of 16 or better have a bonus to invoke trust or intimidation in others.

-Physical Strength (PS): This is the raw physical power of the character. The PS times 10 indicates how heavy an object (in pounds) a character can carry. A character can lift 30 times the PS. Exceptionally strong characters with a PS of 15 to 19 can carry 20 times thier PS and lift 40 times their PS. Soemone with a PS of 20 to 23 can carry 30 times their PS and lift 60 times their PS. Any character with a PS of 16 or better receives a bonus to damage in hand to hand combat.

-Physical Prowess (PP): Shows the character's degree of dexterity and agility. Involves overall reflexes, precision, accuracy, grace, and quickness. A PP of 16 or better is rewarded with bonuses to dodge and parry attacks and bonuses to strike (how easy it is for you to hit your opponent).

-Physical Endurance (PE): Demonstrates the character's stamina and durability. The amount of physical punishment and resistance to fatigue and disease are determined by PE. Characters with a PE of 16 or better receive bonuses to save vs. coma, death, and toxins.

-Physical Beauty (PB): Is an indication of the physical attractiveness of the character. A PB of 16 or better will be rewarded with a bonus to charm or impress.

-Speed (Spd): Specifically, this is the character's maximum running speed. The Spd times 20 is the number of yards a character can run in one minute.


I was looking around the character profiles thing in the RPG section and spotted a link to this somewhere.

[Rooish]

:o HAHAHAHAHA!!! :lol: So Mike is beautiful and Raph is traumatizingly ugly, according to those Palladium stats.

I'm surprised how drastically different each Turtle is from the others. I made up Dungeons and Dragons stats for the guys one time, but I didn't make the characteristics so drastically different--(Raph's attractiveness is 5 and Mike's is 16, for example).

So we have, according to Palladium:

A really tall, really smart Don who is an average fighter.

A Leo who's good at everything.

A Mike who is absolutely stunning and charismatic and charming compared to his brothers, and who is more physically stronger than Leo, but who's not very smart.

A really short, really tough, really ugly, fast-moving Raph with the lowest mental/emotional endurance.

[Warhorse]

I have never taken the RPG stats to have canonical truth to them. First, while they were published with the aid of Mirage, they weren't published BY Mirage. And second, they were published sooooo early on - 1985ish - that Kevin and Peter were still in the process of developing the characters.

Most other stats that I've seen put all of the Turtles around 5' 2", which makes a whole lot more sense.

I agree with this. Looking now on how the Turtles have developed, I am a firm beliver that a combination of todays comics, 2k3 toon and the the original movie and new movie hold the closest truth to accepted canon.

Just the fact that Raph is the most powerful and weight trains and is the bulkiest of the four would have him the instanst heaviest. So RPG stats mean absolutely nothing to me what so ever!

[Revan]

I agree. I don't know how old those stats are but if they were redone today, there would be some definate changes.

[Andrew NDB]

I have never taken the RPG stats to have canonical truth to them. First, while they were published with the aid of Mirage, they weren't published BY Mirage. And second, they were published sooooo early on - 1985ish - that Kevin and Peter were still in the process of developing the characters.

Sound enough, but at the time of its publication it was certainly intended to be canonical. If it's intended to be removed from the canon, we haven't been made aware of that yet.

Most other stats that I've seen put all of the Turtles around 5' 2", which makes a whole lot more sense.

At only 15 years old in these stats, it's not unreasonable to assume they had a little bit of growing left to do. By the end of Volume 2 they made it all the way to 17.

Here's Page 99.

http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/page99.jpg

On the next few pages, also interesting to note that April (around Vol. 1 #2) was 27 years old... and Casey Jones was only 22 years old at the time of his first appearance. Oroku Saki, at the time of his first death, 34 years old.

[SassyGal]

HAHAHA! April's a cougar :lol: Thank you andrew for the ages, especially Saki... his age is the most debated as far as I know

[Scandia]

Before I begin my ranking, I have to say that one of the best things to come out of the 1987 cartoon that has been repeated successfully is giving the turtles color-coded bandannas. Otherwise I do have trouble telling them apart.

Designs ranked in order:

1) 2007 movie. Smooth, seamless, color-coded, not exactly alike while still being clearly the same kind of turtle. Facial expressions work well. They show pupils.
2) Old toon- including Red Sky and Archie Comics. Very likable. I don't mind the letters- in fact, I kinda like them although they are not entirely necessary. Fits the mood of the toon well.
3) Old movies- at least they color-coded and showed eyes.
4) New Toon- too scary, not showing pupils, not super proportionate. But at least they color-coded the bandannas AND have the turtles have different skin colors.
5) Mirage Comics- how does Splinter tell them apart is beyond me. I am so joyful that adaptations subsequent to the 1987 cartoon have kept the blue/orange/purple/red distinctions.

[odupianist]

Splinter's 25? Interesting.

[Scandia]

His mental age may have corresponded to that of a 25 year old man when he and the turtles first mutated.

According to some events in Archie comics, I estimate Hamato Yoshi to be around 30 when the events happened.

[Fledermaus]

Wow... such an interesting thread. :nod: But I'll have to agree with what a lot of others are saying like on slight possible changes in TMNT canon over the years.

Thanks a lot Andrew NDB!

[SassyGal]

His mental age may have corresponded to that of a 25 year old man when he and the turtles first mutated.

According to some events in Archie comics, I estimate Hamato Yoshi to be around 30 when the events happened.

Is Splinter really that young? Wow, I always thought that he was in his forties or fifties since Shredder was always calling him old man or ancient one in the OT:lol: Of course, I never read any of the comics (for SHAME!!!!!) I just keep learning more about my fav ninjas every day :D

[Andrew NDB]

Is Splinter really that young? Wow, I always thought that he was in his forties or fifties since Shredder was always calling him old man or ancient one in the OT:lol: Of course, I never read any of the comics (for SHAME!!!!!) I just keep learning more about my fav ninjas every day :D

Well, the OT he's a human dude that just happens to look like a rat -- he's almost certainly late 30s, 40s in that (though it's worth mentioning that Laird considers the cartoon origin story apocryphal... he and Eastman told Fred Wolf, if you want to change anything else, cool, but "Don't **** with the origin!" so what did they do? they ****ed with the origin). Since in real life, rats only live about one year... if Splinter's 25 around TMNT Vol. 1 #1, that would make him about 12 years old at the time of his mutation. Which is just crazy... any older than this would be beyond insane -- but we can accept that Splinter wasn't a normal rat to begin with.

Still... a 12 year old rat is an unimaginably old rat. And if you're old when you're mutated, you're probably still gonna mutate as such.

[jenna]

:o HAHAHAHAHA!!! :lol: So Mike is beautiful and Raph is traumatizingly ugly, according to those Palladium stats.

I'm surprised how drastically different each Turtle is from the others. I made up Dungeons and Dragons stats for the guys one time, but I didn't make the characteristics so drastically different--(Raph's attractiveness is 5 and Mike's is 16, for example).

So we have, according to Palladium:

A really tall, really smart Don who is an average fighter.

A Leo who's good at everything.

A Mike who is absolutely stunning and charismatic and charming compared to his brothers, and who is more physically stronger than Leo, but who's not very smart.

A really short, really tough, really ugly, fast-moving Raph with the lowest mental/emotional endurance.

:lol: Poor old Raph really got the rough end of the deal. no wonder he is so bitter - talk about an inferiority complex!

I'm sure that what's canon will have evolved over the years, but it is really interesting to see where they started and also a kind of justification for Raphael's small height in the new film as he is usually portrayed as either the tallest or the second tallest.

I'd like to know though (perhaps one of the chicks who appreciate the turtles on a more.... erm.... aesthetic level can tell me) how does one rate the physical beauty of a mutant turtle??? In my eyes, I would be one of the women screaming and running from the hills if I ever saw one of these guys in real life, regardless of whether they had big blue eyes or glaring brown eyes!!

I'm loving these stats, anyway and love the turn this thread has taken - keep the facts coming dudes!!

[Time Mistress]

I always figured Raph as the "strongest" seeing as how he does the most weight training.

Mike would be the "leanest" with more of an gymnast physique. I've also thought of him as the shortest given that Michaelan Sisti from the movies was the shortest of the four Turtle actors.

I'd probably say Leo or Don for tallest. The old playmates figues I think listed Don, Mike and Raph all as 5'0" with Leo little taller at
5'1".

[Warhorse]

Throwing out canon, and using your own ideal, how would you all incorparate the Turtles stats in your own minds? Like, there are certain things you've seen or read over the years that stood in your mind, so you automatically start creating who was taller, who was heaviest, or who was most likely to accomplish, or do something insanely stupid, first?

[Rooish]

Wow. Splinter needs higher stats. He's way lower than his sons in most aspects.

Edit: To answer your question, Warhorse, here's how I always imagined the Turtles, in *cough* Dungeons and Dragons terms (although I just ranked them compared to each other--1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th--instead of giving them numerical scores).

LEO Height: 5'2'' Weight: 180 lbs
Strength: 2nd (tie with Mike)
Dexterity: 2nd (tie with Raph and Don)
Constitution: 2nd
Wisdom: 1st
Intelligence: 2nd
Charisma: 1st

DON Height: 5'2'' Weight: 175 lbs
Strength: 4th
Dexterity: 2nd (tie with Raph and Leo)
Constitution: 3rd (tie with Mike)
Wisdom: 2nd (tie with Raph)
Intelligence: 1st
Charisma: 3rd (tie with Raph)

MIKE Height: 5'1'' Weight: 175 lbs
Strength: 2nd (tie with Leo)
Dexterity: 1st
Constitution: 3rd (tie with Don)
Wisdom: 4th
Intelligence: 3rd
Charisma: 2nd

RAPH Height: 5'1'' Weight: 185 lbs
Strength: 1st
Dexterity: 2nd (tie with Leo and Don)
Constitution: 1st
Wisdom: 2nd (tie with Don)
Intelligence: 4th
Charisma: 3rd (tie with Don)

[Andrew NDB]

Throwing out canon, and using your own ideal, how would you all incorparate the Turtles stats in your own minds? Like, there are certain things you've seen or read over the years that stood in your mind, so you automatically start creating who was taller, who was heaviest, or who was most likely to accomplish, or do something insanely stupid, first?

I wouldn't throw out any canon, personally. Raph as the runt of the litter (so to speak) makes sense, Don as tallest makes good sense too, Mike and Leo somewhere in between as far as height.

As far as strength, surely they'd all be about the same. They all have roughly the same training regime from Splinter, probably daily routines and the like. Maybe Raph and/or Leo lifts some weights on their free time so maybe one of them might technically be "strongest" also, but who knows.

Wow. Splinter needs higher stats. He's way lower than his sons in most aspects.

But he's an old rat. Relatively speaking (at the time of his mutation, Splinter as a rat being unimaginably old for a normal rat), how spry do you think a 120 year old Bruce Lee would be? I'm certain they'd be more comparable if he was younger.

[Scandia]

Given how much Mikey eats in all the incarnations, I would not put him as the leanest. Most hyper and thus likely to burn off everything he eats, yes. But I can also see him slacking around while Leo trains and Raph is wanting to fight somebody.

[Andrew NDB]

Given how much Mikey eats in all the incarnations, I would not put him as the leanest. Most hyper and thus likely to burn off everything he eats, yes. But I can also see him slacking around while Leo trains and Raph is wanting to fight somebody.

I don't remember Mikey eating any more than any of the other Turtles in the comics.

[Whitewolf89]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/Warhorse_1978/152600pixels.jpg

I KNOW that this is a bit OT, but could you make me a couple of pic like this (THIS one, AND one like it where Leo is standing straight (NEXT scene, I guess), PLUS one (or two) where Leo's looking at Raph and says "I'm going to neeed you, too", in response to what Raph has just said to him? I want to make a new siggy, and I want to use one of these pics, and those lines.

:toops: Or did I just make this request in the wrong place?:toops: :tsweatdr: If so, tell me, and I'll re-make it in the RIGHT one. Sorries in advance and thankies in advance.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

I KNOW that this is a bit OT, but could you make me a couple of pic like this (THIS one, AND one like it where Leo is standing straight (NEXT scene, I guess), PLUS one (or two) where Leo's looking at Raph and says "I'm going to neeed you, too", in response to what Raph has just said to him? I want to make a new siggy, and I want to use one of these pics, and those lines.

:toops: Or did I just make this request in the wrong place?:toops: :tsweatdr: If so, tell me, and I'll re-make it in the RIGHT one. Sorries in advance and thankies in advance.

Yeah it's the wrong place, but you're forgiven. :D
Heck I'll even give you the link so you don't have to travel far :D :
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=7806

[jenna]

In answer to Warhorse's question, I would probably rank them as follows:

1. Height (since this thread has become so height orientated) Tallest to shortest- Leo, Don, Mike, Raph
I think Raph as the shortest brings a whole new level to his character, like a little kid who gets a complex, then an attitude then just becomes plain aggressive and compensates in other ways - not that there is anything wrong with being small. Mike I would have as smaller than Leo and Don for vulnerability factor. Leo obviously the tallest.

2. Strength strongest to 'weakest' - Raph, Leo, Mike, Don
Don is something of a pacifist and whilst he is still very strong and could kick most people's asses, he probably doesn't quite match his brothers. We all know about Raph and his determination with weight training.

3. Physical endurance - toughest to least tolerant - Raph, Leo, Mike, Don
As above

4. Intelligence - brightest to dimest - Don, Leo, Raph, Mike
Mike and Raph I think leads with their hearts and Leo and Don with their heads, thus making them more mind orientated. Although, Raph is impulsive and follows his instinct he has a good deal of street-smarts and is still very intelligent. In terms of intelligence, Don needs no justification for being the top of the list.

I don't really know what else to list, I could go on an on.

[Rooish]

In answer to Warhorse's question, I would probably rank them as follows:

1. Height (since this thread has become so height orientated) Tallest to shortest- Leo, Don, Mike, Raph
I think Raph as the shortest brings a whole new level to his character, like a little kid who gets a complex, then an attitude then just becomes plain aggressive and compensates in other ways - not that there is anything wrong with being small. Mike I would have as smaller than Leo and Don for vulnerability factor. Leo obviously the tallest.

2. Strength strongest to 'weakest' - Raph, Leo, Mike, Don
Don is something of a pacifist and whilst he is still very strong and could kick most people's asses, he probably doesn't quite match his brothers. We all know about Raph and his determination with weight training.

3. Physical endurance - toughest to least tolerant - Raph, Leo, Mike, Don
As above

4. Intelligence - brightest to dimest - Don, Leo, Raph, Mike
Mike and Raph I think leads with their hearts and Leo and Don with their heads, thus making them more mind orientated. Although, Raph is impulsive and follows his instinct he has a good deal of street-smarts and is still very intelligent. In terms of intelligence, Don needs no justification for being the top of the list.

I don't really know what else to list, I could go on an on.

Heehee, I definitely think that being short would help Raph form a bit of an inferiority complex and aggression. Poor dude!

As far as intelligence goes, I'd say that Mikey is more clever and fast-thinking than Raph, but Raph is more intuitive and has better judgment than Mike ... but I'd still put them behind Don and Leo.

[Warhorse]

In my mind. I always saw the height as Leo, Don, Raph and Mikey (Mikey being the smaller, younger brother that the others tend to feel overprotective of or like Leo said in the new movie, someone has to keep an eye on Mikey!;)

Intelligence. As far as IQ's go, I would say Donny right off the bat!. But when it comes to common sense, I find Leo and Raph a little better in that area. Like someone said above about wisdom, Leo and Raph may have a bit more wisdom than Donny or Mikey when it comes to their surroundings. But when it comes to thinking fast and on the spot, Mikey and Leo come to mind (Mikey's thinking on his feet I have found to be a very strong attribute to him. And I would also imagine that his watching tv all the time, would have him more aware to the world's problems than he lets on. Just his character doesn't like to dwell on serious stuff.

As for age. I always saw in the back of my mind it being Donny, Leo, Raph and Mikey. I just thought that age thing would show just how mature Leo is, in relative to his age in the family (even though sometimes I even visioned Leo and Raph being twins. Just something about the dynamic between those two that make it alluring to think of them as twins.

But as for those dungeon and dragon statistics. If they are supposed to hard canon in the TMNT world, how come it has Raph listed as the speediest turtles, when it is known now that Mikey is the fastest Turtle? It says Leo's hobbies include reading popular fiction. That seems like something Mikey would do.

I KNOW that this is a bit OT, but could you make me a couple of pic like this (THIS one, AND one like it where Leo is standing straight (NEXT scene, I guess), PLUS one (or two) where Leo's looking at Raph and says "I'm going to neeed you, too", in response to what Raph has just said to him? I want to make a new siggy, and I want to use one of these pics, and those lines.

:toops: Or did I just make this request in the wrong place?:toops: :tsweatdr: If so, tell me, and I'll re-make it in the RIGHT one. Sorries in advance and thankies in advance.

Sorry. I just happened to have that particular pic from the 162 images that were released a while back. It doesn't have the next scene of Leo accepting his swords from Raphael. But as soon as I get the movie on dvd, I'll do my best to meet that request! Hey, I made a rhyme!

[Whitewolf89]

Yeah it's the wrong place, but you're forgiven. :D
Heck I'll even give you the link so you don't have to travel far :D :
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=7806

Thankies. I'll probably try to copy/paste all that and repost it there. But tomorrow. This girl is tired, so she's gonna call it a night and hit the hay.

Sorry. I just happened to have that particular pic from the 162 images that were released a while back. It doesn't have the next scene of Leo accepting his swords from Raphael. But as soon as I get the movie on dvd, I'll do my best to meet that request! Hey, I made a rhyme!

Oh, okay. Didn't know that. It's all good, though.

And I will take you UP on that! I'd do it myself, but my comp DOESN'T have a DVD-player on it (and it was SUPPOSED to! Drat you, Gateway!!!:evil: :P :evil: ), so I can't. Drat it. Maybe WHEN I get my NEW one....................

Heh, yeah you did! Or, as we would put it in MY neck of the woods, you're a poet and didn't know it!:D ;)

Anyway, g' night, all.;)

[jenna]

As for age. I always saw in the back of my mind it being Donny, Leo, Raph and Mikey. I just thought that age thing would show just how mature Leo is, in relative to his age in the family (even though sometimes I even visioned Leo and Raph being twins. Just something about the dynamic between those two that make it alluring to think of them as twins.



It's weird now to think back to it, but when I was little and the 80s toon was all the TMNT my little mind knew, I thought Raph was the youngest. I never thought Mike was "young" and thought that out of all them Raph was the most immature -probably because of his tendency to panic in OT. But then, when your 9 years old, who are you to judge maturity?? :lol:

[The Shelf]

Well, getting slightly more on topic. My favorite turtle designs in order:
1. Lawson comics
2. Laird/Eastman comics
3. TMNT 2007
4. TMNT 1 & 2
5. 2k3 Toon
6. All remaining comic designs (Mirage, Image, Archie, Dreamwave, etc.)
7. Old Toon (red sky)
8. Old Toon (before red sky)
9. Fast Forward
10. TMNT 3
11. Next Mutation
12. Daily comic strips that you can find on gocomics.com (bleh)

I think that covers all the official styles that exist (not counting games, of course).

[jenna]

Well, getting slightly more on topic. My favorite turtle designs in order:
1. Lawson comics
2. Laird/Eastman comics
3. TMNT 2007
4. TMNT 1 & 2
5. 2k3 Toon
6. All remaining comic designs (Mirage, Image, Archie, Dreamwave, etc.)
7. Old Toon (red sky)
8. Old Toon (before red sky)
9. Fast Forward
10. TMNT 3
11. Next Mutation
12. Daily comic strips that you can find on gocomics.com (bleh)

I think that covers all the official styles that exist (not counting games, of course).

Great stuff - I like how you've included the comics too.

[Warhorse]

Thankies. I'll probably try to copy/paste all that and repost it there. But tomorrow. This girl is tired, so she's gonna call it a night and hit the hay.



Oh, okay. Didn't know that. It's all good, though.

And I will take you UP on that! I'd do it myself, but my comp DOESN'T have a DVD-player on it (and it was SUPPOSED to! Drat you, Gateway!!!:evil: :P :evil: ), so I can't. Drat it. Maybe WHEN I get my NEW one....................

Heh, yeah you did! Or, as we would put it in MY neck of the woods, you're a poet and didn't know it!:D ;)

Anyway, g' night, all.;)

Gateway! That's what I got!???!!!!

To be honest, I have had Gateways, Dell, Sony, Packard, and they all have their pros and cons.

It's weird now to think back to it, but when I was little and the 80s toon was all the TMNT my little mind knew, I thought Raph was the youngest. I never thought Mike was "young" and thought that out of all them Raph was the most immature -probably because of his tendency to panic in OT. But then, when your 9 years old, who are you to judge maturity?? :lol:

I dont remember what I thought of the Turtles amongst themselves when I was a kid. It was just the thing to watch, and the original movie was the best I have seen at that time in my life. But back then, I never cared for who was tallest, or the best fighter, or who could down the most beer!

[Andrew NDB]

2. Laird/Eastman comics
6. All remaining comic designs (Mirage,

..... Hmmm?

[The Shelf]

..... Hmmm?

I'm not sure what you're hmm'ing about. 6 is a catchall for the rest of the comic artists besides Laird, Eastman, and Lawson.

[jenna]

Hey, I revived this thread to ask a question about the 2k3 / FF design.

I am one of a large group of people who dislike the lack of pupils for the turtles. My personal view is that I use the eyes a lot when relating to characters and find it harder to empathise when you cannot look into the eyes. plus I find the empty white sockets a bit scary!

This does not include the comic designs, because I think it works in stil images. It also worked well in shots of the new film, egs: first shot of Leo in the teaser trailer when he opens his eyes; Leo standing on the building; Raph's leap at the end. I think it worked here because it was just flashes.

I know this has been mentioned several times on the forum, but something I've noticed is that it appears that the girls hate the lack of pupils, whilst the boys find it cool cos it makes the turtles look really bad*ss.

Is this right? Does your gender influence your take on the eyes?

[Courk]

I'm a girl, and my initial reaction was that it was weird them not having pupils in 2k3, but I've quickly gotten over that. I don't think I even noticed the lack of pupils in the trailer.

Whenever they're out of their masks I find something refreshingly odd. I don't know if it's the presence of pupils or the lack of masks -- or both! I'm pretty flexible, though. As long as it looks good (and I think it looks good in 2k3), I'll take whatever style of eyes I can.

[Scandia]

Could be. I'm a girl. But keep in mind I am not the most feminine woman in the planet. The fact alone that at nearly 30 I am still obsessing over the TMNT is proof alone about this.

I am not very good with body language. But I still appreciate the Turtles having pupils and irises. Only one Turtle- Raphael- is remotely badass. And I think it is more like he wants to be badass than his actually being a badass.

Jenna- it may have been in the OT figures. But I read somewhere that Leo was 16, Mikey was 15 1/2, and Donnie and Raph were 15. So I made Raph be the youngest. Nowadays most other reports state that Mikey is youngest and Raph is second youngest. So I have adjusted my stories.

[jenna]

The fact alone that at nearly 30 I am still obsessing over the TMNT is proof alone about this.



hehe - I don't think you are the only one. :lol:

Only one Turtle- Raphael- is remotely badass. And I think it is more like he wants to be badass than his actually being a badass.

Whilst I agree that Raph is the toughest, I think many would disagree that none of the turtles are bad*ss - they may be quite benign in some incarnations but I think it's taken as a given they are all quite lethal in combat.

Jenna- it may have been in the OT figures. But I read somewhere that Leo was 16, Mikey was 15 1/2, and Donnie and Raph were 15. So I made Raph be the youngest. Nowadays most other reports state that Mikey is youngest and Raph is second youngest. So I have adjusted my stories.

That's really interesting, and I think I recall something similar from when I was young, but yeah, these things change - like the Mirage stats Andrew posted may not be taken as canon anymore, they were at one stage. Mikey being the youngest fits more with the way his character has evolved.

[Masked Ninja]

I'm a girl and I've always liked the white pupils. The TMNT look appropriately awesome that way. However, I don't dislike pupils... I know that it's much easier to indicate eye movements in animation (and otherwise) with 'em. The new series did well with altering their shape to suggest such movements though, so I didn't have a problem. And, like many superheroes, their pupils reappear when the mask comes off. I like that a lot.

However, I will say I also loved the way the 2k7 movie handled the eyes thing. When the Turtles are in a lighted area (or the the added expressiveness is needed), the pupils are visible. But when they're in shadow or needing to look menacing/kickawesome (with the inexplicable exception of Leo in the jungle), the pupils are gone and their eyes glow white.

[Colliwog]

Ooh just now found this thread. x___x
Forgive my asking.. but what is Red Sky? Anyone have pics I could see to compare?

[Swany]

Nah, I'm a girl (Well, boobs are present anyway) and I like the lack of pupils. It just works different for the different versions. Like Masked ninja said, in the latest movie sometimes they did sometimes not.

But in the 2k3 series its cool, they've doon a good job conveying emotion just though the shape of their eyes. But there are times when it bothers me, like in closeups. The artists seem to really love doing bits where their eyes take up the entire screen and thats when it bothers me most. I do like that they have pupils when they take of their masks though, then it would have been REALLY weird.

[jenna]

However, I will say I also loved the way the 2k7 movie handled the eyes thing. When the Turtles are in a lighted area (or the the added expressiveness is needed), the pupils are visible. But when they're in shadow or needing to look menacing/kickawesome (with the inexplicable exception of Leo in the jungle), the pupils are gone and their eyes glow white.

Yeah, I really liked that too.

Ooh just now found this thread. x___x
Forgive my asking.. but what is Red Sky? Anyone have pics I could see to compare?


I don't have a pic, but Red Sky was the old series after it was revamped at the start of Season 8. It's called Red Sky because the sky is already tinged red. The design was much better, and April ditched the yellow suit!! If someone has a picture of the turtles, please post it as the design in my opinion was really awesome - the same, but more precise and less cudly - more hard core.

[Katie]

There's a Red Sky screencaps thread somewhere in here....in this forum I think. [lazy=me]

I prefer the no iris look. The 2k3 eyes were expressive enough for me. Tis true that the ladies will read intent and infer emotion from eyes....it's in our biological makeup to take visual cues like that while we are communicating. (and other physiological cues too) Probably why we drive men so nutso by reading into EVERY teensy detail. we can't help it guys :( honest. {sorry, I am fascinated by the differences in the way men and women think....physiology of our brains and so forth....you'd be surprised how much the opposite sex starts to make sense whenyou understand how their brain works :P}

and jenna, tax class? EWWW! sounds like you are trying for my job :dead:

[Sage Ninja]

I think that in the 2k3 show the turtles look really lethal and ninja-esch in the thier pupliless masks. But when they take them off and you can see their black eyes it makes them all togther more soft and gentle and...young looking. Like they could possiablly pass for just being ordinary adolesncents that wouldn't hurt a fly.

However I do love it when the turtles don't have their masks on. They look really neat. And even though the animators do a good job conveying emotion by chaging the shape of their eyes when they are reacting to something, I do find the puplis to be more expressive. When I saw Chistmas Aliens Michaelangelo went the entire episode (exeot for the lasyt few minutes of the episode) with out his mask. And I thought his eyes conveyed a wider range of emotion from him with out the mask than he did with it on. Espeically during the scenes where he jumps the purple dragons and he is driving the truck during the police chase.

[odupianist]

Like you all have said, I like the no pupils with the masks on and then pupils appear with the masks off. I think the artists were trying to get the superhero effect going with that. I think it's quite creative and challenging for the artists that they dont have the pupils when the masks are on. It challenges them to draw the character to show emotion through the character's eyes by means of the bandana, and also their body language too.

I never noticed the movie thing where the pupils appear in lighter situations, I'll have to check that out.

[jenna]

and jenna, tax class? EWWW! sounds like you are trying for my job :dead:

Tell me about it! So borrrrring. I actually already have the job - I'm a trainee financial adviser, just have to get qualified to knock off the 'trainee' part. :lol: which means studing in my spare time.... :sick:

What do you do?

Sorry to go off topic - just gotta share the joy of tax.

[Katie]

Tell me about it! So borrrrring. I actually already have the job - I'm a trainee financial adviser, just have to get qualified to knock off the 'trainee' part. :lol: which means studing in my spare time.... :sick:

What do you do?

Sorry to go off topic - just gotta share the joy of tax.



hehehe I was a certified financial advisor at a bank for about a year, right out of college then I got bored. Now I am a small business / emerging markets loan underwriter for a pretty big bank here in the states....still think numbers are boring, but I can't help but laugh at some of the crazy things you can learn about folks from their tax returns :P


all that stuff sounds so grown up :( Maybe I have extended my teenage years as far as they will go...............NAAAAAAAH!!! I really still have not decided what I will do when I grow up. I just keep finding things to do :D

[Leogeddon]

i think in the movie, mikey was too small, sure he seems like the youngest, probably is, but he should have more fat on him. Not a lot, can be some more though.

Personally, i liked fast forward, i never got to see it on TV until my friend showed me and i liked it. Don't and Do like the opening song at the same time.

[triplexxx]

Well, none of the turtles were ever lean anywhere save the new film, not that they should be, all that bulk is muscle, not fat, and a result of 15 years of training. But yeah there shouldn't be much difference in height, if any; I'm fine with them being the same size in the cartoons (save FF).

[Leogeddon]

yeh, if you look at the pictures, with Karai with her extremely long arms on the movie reviews, she didn't have such long arms in the movie... or i don't think so.

But we can bet there's gonna be a sequel, not only because it struck so well in the theatres, not only the spoiler after the creds (which i missed :(), but Karai said something about them meeting an old aquaintance..

I liked how they made Splinter brown in the movie than grey like in the TMNT 03

[Revan]

But we can bet there's gonna be a sequel, not only because it struck so well in the theatres, not only the spoiler after the creds (which i missed :(), but Karai said something about them meeting an old aquaintance..

Whoa Whoa Whoa... What! There was more after the credits!? Info please. What happened?!

[Roseangelo]

Whoa Whoa Whoa... What! There was more after the credits!? Info please. What happened?!

There wasn't... not sure what Tony's talking about.

[Colliwog]

I agree- I..really don't like how Splinter is gray in the 2k3 series. I mean.. why?? He's NEVER been gray in any TMNT series. x___x;;

[Revan]

I agree- I..really don't like how Splinter is gray in the 2k3 series. I mean.. why?? He's NEVER been gray in any TMNT series. x___x;;

Yeah but shredder was never an utrom either... There are many things unique to 2k3 and that is what makes it my favorite

There wasn't... not sure what Tony's talking about.
Oh good! Phew.

[odupianist]

Yeah but shredder was never an utrom either... There are many things unique to 2k3 and that is what makes it my favorite

yeah I agree but a grey Splinter, cmon :P

[The Shelf]

Meh, a grey Splinter makes him look older. I don't have a problem with it. I did have a problem with his shoulder pads in the most recent movie, but I got over it.

As far as turtles' pupils go when they're wearing their masks... I think they should have no pupils from a distance, but they need pupils in the closeups. It just looks strange in a closeup when their eyes are missing. I mean... the white isn't actually part of the mask. They don't have plastic lenses inside their masks, so their pupils should be visible when you see them up close. But far away, or even semi-far away, it just looks darn cool when their pupils are missing.

[Sage Ninja]

am I the only one who is weirded out when they blink and the fabric of their mask is covering their eye lids? :-? This is true in almost every cartoon version I've seen, and I know its hard for the colorists to add green to such a small area instead of just keeping with the general color of the biggest area that is being colored, but i'm just a stickler for detail. When I see the fabric of their masks cover their eyes lids it makes think that half their vision is obscured because of it.

[Scandia]

I don't think it looks cool. Just freaky. The NT would be nearly perfect if the Turtles design would have been closer to the OT- while keeping the longer bandannas and different skin colors as well.

[jenna]

am I the only one who is weirded out when they blink and the fabric of their mask is covering their eye lids? :-? This is true in almost every cartoon version I've seen, and I know its hard for the colorists to add green to such a small area instead of just keeping with the general color of the biggest area that is being colored, but i'm just a stickler for detail. When I see the fabric of their masks cover their eyes lids it makes think that half their vision is obscured because of it.

I don't know anything about animation, but in many OT episodes (moreson Res Sky) they managed to colour their eyelids green with no problems.

[Sage Ninja]

I think that was because in the Red Sky version the turtles masks had eyes openings that where more angular that showed the skin around the eyes, instead of it perfectedly fitting the shape of the eye like in the other mediums.

[Scandia]

I just took a very close look at my TMNT movie poster. And Mikey does have some spots on his face placed to resemble freckles. Which I think is a good addition. Very cute.

[Spawn Guy]

I don't get why blank eyes are a problem. The guys are supposed to look freaky.

[Scandia]

I was reading the first Mirage comic book today. Apart from the blank pupils, the overall Turtle head and body design looks very much like that of the OT. I do not know why the NT departed so much from the original "cuddly" look of the Turtles' heads. Are they trying to make it look more badass to appeal more to little boys of all ages? While the art and animation is otherwise great, the Turtles' design leave much to be desired.

[Revan]

I was reading the first Mirage comic book today. Apart from the blank pupils, the overall Turtle head and body design looks very much like that of the OT. I do not know why the NT departed so much from the original "cuddly" look of the Turtles' heads. Are they trying to make it look more badass to appeal more to little boys of all ages? While the art and animation is otherwise great, the Turtles' design leave much to be desired.

2k3 did changed much of what the turtles were in mirage and the OT, one big change being the animation style. I have to say I like the 2k3 portrayal. I really like the way the turtles heads were modeled for 2k3. More so than the mirage style.

Since you like the Mirage style you might be interested to know that the WB passed on a turtles series and the designs were almost direct replicas of the Mirage first issue to which you refered.

WB designs
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/kalaneutrino/wbturtles.jpg
Personally I think 2k3's style is better.

[Spawn Guy]

While the art and animation is otherwise great, the Turtles' design leave much to be desired.

Ignoring the apparent gender issue, the new toon isn't meant to be the old toon. Appeasing old toon fans was never an issue in the design stage. The looks changed since the first issue to. It's called evolution.

[Ava Collier]

I really like the white-out eyes. The boys don't wear much in the way of clothing to begin with, and being ninja the most important things they have to conceal are their eyes. That would give everything away. ^_~

[odupianist]

I don't get why blank eyes are a problem. The guys are supposed to look freaky.

I agree. I think pupils make them look a little more cartoony.

I was reading the first Mirage comic book today. Apart from the blank pupils, the overall Turtle head and body design looks very much like that of the OT. I do not know why the NT departed so much from the original "cuddly" look of the Turtles' heads. Are they trying to make it look more badass to appeal more to little boys of all ages? While the art and animation is otherwise great, the Turtles' design leave much to be desired.

The first issue was very blocky as I see it compared to later TMNT that becamse more rounded. They refined the TMNT design as they realized "oh ****, this stuff's selling" lol

I think the WB are interesting. Who knows what angle they would have taken the show.

[Sage Ninja]

as far as the OT goes, I think I like the red Sky character designs better than the ones from the first seven seasons. The turtles looked more muscular and broader but also sleek. I also liked how they looked older and more mature looking in the Red Sky episodes, as they where in their late teens or early twenties now, but they still manged to loook cute and a bit cuddely despite the retooling over their designs.