Raphael: Bad Moon Rising and Vampires

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I gotta admit, when the previews for Raphael: Bad Moon Rising were posted on the TMNT website, I was disappointed that Raph’s mini-series would be about vampires and werewolves. I was hoping it’d be more along the lines of “Bodycount” or Raph versus the Mob in Volume Three.

I wanted to see Casey and Raph bustin’ heads. Also, does anyone else think it odd that this is about Raph and Shadow? Mikey’s the turtle closest to Shad, not Raph. What with Tales #7 “Darkness Weaves” and #12 “Paris Nocturne,” you’d think Shadow would be calling Raph Rooish.

I know it’s too soon to say, seeing how Bad Moon Rising #1 hasn’t been released yet, but does anyone think there might be a connection between the vampires of Bad Moon Rising and the vampires in Volume Four? It’s not like vampires are common bad-guys in TMNT. Thoughts, everyone?

[The Shelf]

Wait, where is it mentioned that there are vampires in Bad Moon Rising? Are you referring to the mention of lots of blood in the preview for issue 2? That doesn't necessarily mean vampires. I'll bet there are werewolves, though, since this takes off from the other werewolf story.

As far as Raph and Shad goes... Mikey may be the closest to Shadow, but that doesn't mean none of the other turtles are close to her. In Volume 4, Leo implied that Raph was closest to Shadow after Mike. My guess is that the similarities between Raph and Shadow will be focused on a lot in this mini, perhaps with Raph teaching Shadow to not let her punk side get carried away, maybe.

[aprilsfan]

it starts out with werewolves and then goes into vampires read the descriptions below about the story arc.

Tales of the TMNT vol-2 #7: Darkness Weaves - Shadow sneaks out of the Turtle's lair to attend a concert where she finds much more lunacy than she ever dreamed. Fortunately her "uncle" show up when things get hairy.

Raphael-Bad Moon Rising #1 - Having accidentally killed her best friend and incurring the wrath of Lilith and her werewolf sisterhood, Shadow, along with Raphael, heads to Casey’s farmhouse to lie low for a while. But a late night knock at the door ushers in a whole new world of supernatural intrigue… and weirdness.

Raphael-Bad Moon Rising #2 - Raphael, Shadow, Lulu and the resurrected Sloane, hit the supernatural streets of Nocturna City to revisit the scene of Lilith’s abduction… but what’s with all the blood?

Raphael-Bad Moon Rising #3 - Raphael, Shadow, Lulu and the resurrected Sloane find themselves at the mercy of strange undersea beings and beautiful vampire girls!

Raphael-Bad Moon Rising #4 - The conclusion, as Raphael, Shadow, Lulu and Lilith find out exactly who’s been pulling their strings, and why!

most of these spin off stories are only coming out of the tales of the tmnt vol-2 series. they are letting those writers of the those books expand thier first stories.

[MadPirateBunny]

wow. This sounds like a good series

[The Shelf]

Oh, I didn't realize the 3rd issue description was out yet. I doubt they're the same vampires, though, based on that description. The vampires in V4 weren't very beautiful... >.>

It's possible that the vampires in V4 got their "powers" from these vampires, though.

On a side note, now that I've read the new previews on ninjaturtles.com, the 4th Tales TPB looks awesome! I can't wait to read it. (I'm only getting the Tales TPBs, not the issues)

[odupianist]

I think Mike might be the closest to Shadow, but as she's grown up and gotten more involved with local teenagers, I can see her teenager attitude more like Raph. Granted, I haven't read any recent comics os I could be way off.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Where was it in Volume 4 that Leo implied Raph was closest to Shadow after Mike?

And yeah, Shadow does act a lot like Raph sometimes.

As for the vampires being connected, I still think there's a good chance they are. Like I said, vampires are not a common occurence in TMNT.

[discordiatookie]

This looks awesome, in my humble opinion.

Everyone keeps saying that Shadow is closest to Mikey, and they may be true, but it seems to be Raph that does all the looking out for her and getting her out of trouble. Perhaps its because Casey is his best friend so he feels extra responsible for her? I mean, he even followed her to Paris! Now that's protection!

[Roseangelo]

IIRC there are two Tales books that feature Shadow and Raph (#7 and the one where they go to Paris) and they are probably two of my favorite Tales books. Raph and Shadow are probably closer than either would admit. I'm really glad to see this series continue off of #7 - I like it when we see Raph isn't all about bustin' skulls and I really like Shadow, so more of her is always good.

[The Shelf]

Where was it in Volume 4 that Leo implied Raph was closest to Shadow after Mike?

And yeah, Shadow does act a lot like Raph sometimes.

As for the vampires being connected, I still think there's a good chance they are. Like I said, vampires are not a common occurence in TMNT.

It was in issue 2. When Leo and Raph are sitting around talking about April and Casey trying to have a baby, Raph asks if they need another rugrat around. Leo says something about how gooshy Raph was when Shadow was little, and of course Raph just shrugs it off in his typical fashion by saying that Mike was the gooshy one and that he was only semi-gooshy. I guess it doesn't mean that Raph was "second closest" to Shadow, but that's the impression I got when reading it.

Aaand, since you made me go get my V4 comics out, I looked up issue 12 where Raph fights the vampires. He makes a reference to real vampires that he fought before, and he says that the vampires he's fighting aren't real vampires because they're not very strong. He could have just been toying with their minds, but he seemed pretty emphatic about it, so I think he was being serious. I think they imply that later on as well when Raph, Don, Casey, and Honeycutt catch them all. So I'm certain they're not real vampires.

However! How much do you want to bet that these vampires in Bad Moon Rising are the real vampires that Raph was talking about?! Should be a fun read. :D

[DrSpengler]

However! How much do you want to bet that these vampires in Bad Moon Rising are the real vampires that Raph was talking about?! Should be a fun read. :D

I actually thought Raph was referencing TMNT Vol. 1 #29, "Men of Shadow", where the TMNT fought a bunch of real vampires.

But I guess that his reference could just have easily have been to another "untold Tale".

[The Shelf]

Oh, no, you're probably right, Spengler. The only stuff I've read from V1 are the online issues.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh yeah, now I remember the gooshy quote. Also, about Raph feeling responsible because he's Casey's best friend, I think that was hitting the nail right on the head. That's most certainly it.

As for the real vampires, I'd bet it was supposed to refer to the Vol. 1 issue as well, but almost half of Volume 1 isn't really canon (like the Souls trilogy or Spaced Out), so I don't know if Men of Shadow is canon.

As it is, Bad Moon Rising sounds a lot more interesting. Especially with beautiful vampire girls! :evilgrin:

[Coola Yagami]

How old is Shadow currently? Maybe Raph just wants a piece?

[Andrew NDB]

Aaand, since you made me go get my V4 comics out, I looked up issue 12 where Raph fights the vampires. He makes a reference to real vampires that he fought before,

Yes, they did fight vampires before. A.C. Farley's tale in TMNT Vol. 1 #29.

[Buslady]

IMO it sounds more like a Shadow story than a Raph story. He's along for the ride. I was hoping for an ALL Raph mini series, with Casey as the pushy sidekick. Oh well. I'll get this new series anyways I guess.

[Ninjinister]

I asked Dan Berger which issues of the earlier series would be considered canon, back in February of 2006, and this is what he said:

Unfortunately Peter Laird hasn't given me his list of issues that he
considers part of the official story line, but it's relatively safe
to assume that these issues would make the cut:

TMNT volume one #1-15, 17, 19-21, 27, 28, 45-62

The four micro-series: Raphael #1, Michaelangelo #1, Donatello #1 and
Leonardo #1

Fugitoid #1

Tales of the TMNT volume one #1-7

TMNT volume two #1-13

So in Dan's opinion, 29 probably isn't canon (unless he forgot about it)

[The Shelf]

Very interesting. If TMNT 29 isn't canon, then it's probably safe to assume that this is, in fact, the story Raph was referring to in that quote. Of course, if Raph never fights these vampire girls, then they can't be the ones he's talking about since he said he fought real vampires before. I guess we'll find out soon (or not soon) enough.

EDIT: On a side note, do you think the only things that Laird considers canon are the issues written at least in part by Eastman, Laird, Lawson, Talbot, or Dooney? (plus everything in Tales V2, of course)

[Andrew NDB]

Very interesting. If TMNT 29 isn't canon, then it's probably safe to assume that this is, in fact, the story Raph was referring to in that quote. Of course, if Raph never fights these vampire girls, then they can't be the ones he's talking about since he said he fought real vampires before. I guess we'll find out soon (or not soon) enough.

EDIT: On a side note, do you think the only things that Laird considers canon are the issues written at least in part by Eastman, Laird, Lawson, Talbot, or Dooney? (plus everything in Tales V2, of course)

I've asked him the same years back, and yes, that's pretty much the assumption. We just haven't heard it directly from Laird so can only speculate, and Dan even admits he's not entirely sure. The semi-official line from Dan is that only the issues done "in-house" are canon in Laird's eyes, but Laird has never really sat down and listed which ones are and aren't canon in his book.

If A.C. Farley's stuff isn't canon, though, that's pretty lame. Contributed so much to the Mirages, from covers, designs, and two entire issues of Vol. 1 and the backup story in Turtle Soup where the TMNT meet Chet as an older man.

And if the vampire story isn't canon, that means "Halls of Lost Legends" isn't canon either. Pretty much sucks if that's the case.

For a time, he told me, even Berger's own Vol. 1 #45 wasn't considered canon. It wasn't until a little bit into Volume 4 that Laird doubled back and went, "All right, all right... it's canon, Dan."

[VaughnMichael]

makes one wonder if the mirage clan doesn't like A.C. Farley.
Also makes one wonder where the mans gone haven't anything from him in years and his website is dead.:|

[DrSpengler]

makes one wonder if the mirage clan doesn't like A.C. Farley.

First Laird ejects every contribution Rick Veitch made to the series, and now Farley?

Anyway, I hope Farley's stuff remains canon. He's possibly my favorite TMNT artist. His work had such a hard, dark edge to it. I'd hate to see it thrown out the window just because it wasn't "in house" (I always thought Farley was a part of that cliq, anyway?).

[Roseangelo]

I remember when Peter listed a tentative canon list in vol. 4 that #43 (Halls of Lost Legends) was not included. Seeing that it's one of my all-time favorite TMNT issues, and especially because there's absolutely nothing in the issue that should take it out of canon, this does not make me happy. I really hope the list changes and #43 is included. Everything Farley has done should be canon.

[VaughnMichael]

well I've read comments from Murphy I believe it was on here on in tales of tmnt saying it's better now that certain people aren't around anymore.
I'm not sure who exactly was being spoken of but people as usual can only speculate when such things are said.:ohwell:
& I as well am deeply unhappy with this news besides Kevin, Peter, & Dooney
A.C. Farley was one of my all time favorite artists he's one of the reasons I got into drawing as a teenager his style is so fresh and wonderfull to the eyes I've never seen the man do a bad drawing let alone painting.
It's such a down right shame that he's fallen off the face of the altered earth.

[The Shelf]

Well, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. Some, if not all, of Farley's stuff could still be canon. I remember reading in the letters pages of V4 that Laird was working on a timeline for the turtles which obviously should include everything that is taken as canon. If that ever sees the light of day, then we'll know exactly what is canon and what is not. I do remember him saying that some of the Turtle Soup and other small stories outside of TMNT and Tales are considered canon, but he has never said which ones. So I'm sure stories such as the one where Chet meets the turtles is considered canon.

Anyway, we're getting off topic, folks...

[odupianist]

He's along for the ride.

That wouldn't surprise me. Raph's always looking for a fight or so it seems.

So I'm sure stories such as the one where Chet meets the turtles is considered canon.


I had always heard about that story. Where is it located?

[Mandi-chan]

Please, PLEASE, tell me that "The River" is NOT cannon with the rest of the Mirage universe.

I HATED that arc so much, it was horrible. The TMNT (mainly Raph) felt really out-of-character to me, the artwork was horrid, and the plot was really bad too.

[Buslady]

Please, PLEASE, tell me that "The River" is NOT cannon with the rest of the Mirage universe.

I HATED that arc so much, it was horrible. The TMNT (mainly Raph) felt really out-of-character to me, the artwork was horrid, and the plot was really bad too.


how was raph OOC in the River arc?
I thought it was a great story.
Being that it was also adapted for animation, I would consider it canon.

[DrSpengler]

I had always heard about that story. Where is it located?

Turtle Soup (on-going) #4. The story is titled "15 Years Later".

Please, PLEASE, tell me that "The River" is NOT cannon with the rest of the Mirage universe.

I HATED that arc so much, it was horrible. The TMNT (mainly Raph) felt really out-of-character to me, the artwork was horrid, and the plot was really bad too.

Well, Laird hasn't shown very much pride in Veitch's contributions to the TMNT Universe lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up axing it. As it stands, "the River" is referenced in "Sons of the Silent Age", which is most definately a canon story. So at the moment, it should be considered canon (the page, though, can be removed easily without effecting the story).

how was raph OOC in the River arc?
I thought it was a great story.
Being that it was also adapted for animation, I would consider it canon.

I loved "the River" as well. Howevr, it has not been adapted into a 2k3 episode. Perhaps you have it confused with "Sons of the Silent Age".

[Ninjinister]

Very interesting. If TMNT 29 isn't canon, then it's probably safe to assume that this is, in fact, the story Raph was referring to in that quote. Of course, if Raph never fights these vampire girls, then they can't be the ones he's talking about since he said he fought real vampires before. I guess we'll find out soon (or not soon) enough.

EDIT: On a side note, do you think the only things that Laird considers canon are the issues written at least in part by Eastman, Laird, Lawson, Talbot, or Dooney? (plus everything in Tales V2, of course)

I'm thinking, however, if Laird randomly said that #29 was not canon, that would be a deus ex machina. "The old vampire story didn't happen... only our new one does!" (Ten years later) "Neither vampire story existed! Here's a new one that did though!"

[The Shelf]

I'm thinking, however, if Laird randomly said that #29 was not canon, that would be a deus ex machina. "The old vampire story didn't happen... only our new one does!" (Ten years later) "Neither vampire story existed! Here's a new one that did though!"

Well, I would probably call that a retcon rather than a deus ex machina, but I can see your point. The thing is, though, half of Volume 1 was written with no direction in mind and presumably without Peter's or Kevin's guiding hand since they were busy with the cartoon, movies, and merchandise. That's not the case with Volumes 2 & 4 and Tales Volumes 1 & 2, so I doubt he would do what you're suggesting.

[Mandi-chan]

Well, Laird hasn't shown very much pride in Veitch's contributions to the TMNT Universe lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up axing it. As it stands, "the River" is referenced in "Sons of the Silent Age", which is most definately a canon story. So at the moment, it should be considered canon (the page, though, can be removed easily without effecting the story).


I love "Sons of the Silent Age", and was a bit irked to see "the River" referenced there...why was that in there again?

Anyway, I look over it every time I read the issue. :D

[aprilsfan]

Raphael - Bad Moon Rising #4
Ship Date: October 15, 2007

Format: 32 B&W pages, full color cover, standard size comic
Retail Price: $3.25 US $3.95 Canada

Cover by Ross Campbell; Story by Murphy; art by Jim Lawson and Eric Talbot.

This all-new 4-issue mini-series picks up immediately after the events of the werewolf-filled pages of Tales of the TMNT #7! The conclusion, as Raphael, Shadow, Lulu and Lilith find out exactly who’s been pulling their strings, and why! Cover by Wet Moon’s Ross Campbell.

[Scandia]

At the beginning, this story did not seem appealing to me. Possibly due to its being a Raph one. However, after reading the original Tales volume it was based on- I want to get my hands on it. I'm off Friday- I will definitely swing by the comic book store to see what new stuff they have.

[aprilsfan]

you should be able to find that tales of tmnt #7, unless it is just too old and out of stock. as for spin off issues, i dont think any of them have been released at, least i have not heard much chatter about any released. here are the release dates as they are for the time being, things sometimes change.

Raphael-Bad Moon Volume #1 - june 1 2007 (has this one been released?, sometimes mirage issue get released late)

Raphael-Bad Moon Volume #2 - august 7 2007 (might change)

Raphael Bad Moon Volume #3 - september 7 2007 (again might change)

Raphael Bad Moon Volume #4 - october 15 2007 (again might change)

all future comic release dates and info can be found at this link

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/html/upcoming.html

[R-iZZy]

Okay, it's been over a month since the first issue was supposed to be released. Does anyone even know what's up with this series?

[Roseangelo]

The book isn't out yet. Murphy posted on his blog (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/06/raphael-bad-moon-rising-1.html) that it's due out July 17th (so it'd be in shops on the 18th).

[R-iZZy]

Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to it!

[Raph's Girl]

Midtowncomics.com has confirmed that Tales of Raphael #1 and Tales 36 will BOTH be out this Wednesday (Jul 18th). :evilgrin: