Michaelanglo

[Time Mistress]

He's the only one left to discuss so here it goes?

My thoughts

I love Mike.

I love his creativity, his raw talent, his easygoing attitude. I think Mike is a character who we know a lot about, but also don't. We see a lot of Mike in the spotlight, but it always seems to be from the same angle. He's the funny one, the little brother, but the things I love most about Mike are the things that go beyond that surface.

I love seeing Mike writing. It represents the intelectual and creative side of Mike, a more serious side that allows him the keep a journal of his most private thoughts, show off his artistic talent, or partake in the fringes of the human world by writing a bestseling novel.

I love seeing Mike fighting. It represents his skill and dedication to martial arts that we don't see enough of. His natural talent makes his a force to be reckoned with against his enemies and his brothers.

I love how Mike is caring. He's the one who can make the others laugh when they feel like crying, lend a supportive ear when the just need someone to listen, and remind all of them that being a mutant turtle makes you special, not a freak.

[Roseangelo]

Mike has always been my favorite from day one. But just as randomly as my fandom was born out of seeing a whole 30 seconds of the original cartoon, I think my pick of Mike was nearly as random. He was funny and goofy, and for whatever reason, I was drawn towards that.

Then, just as I discovered the deeper levels of the general TMNT story thanks to the movie and eventually the comic books, I discovered the deeper levels to Mikey. But poor Mikey, he seems to probably get the least attention of the four. The Leo/Raph A-type personalities and resulting conflict are a natural focal point, and while Don may have been passed over in the recent movie, as Peter's favorite he does get a lot of attention in the comics.

And what all that boils down to is your comment about how Mike is a character that we know a lot about.. but at the same time there's a whole lot we don't know about him. While there are a lot of conclusions that we can come to about Mike, it still feels like there's a missing puzzle piece.

Mike's the goof who loves life and wants all of the people around him to be happy, but at the same time he seems to use his easy-going behavior as a defense mechanism because the serious parts of life are uneasy for him to deal with.. uncomfortable, and probably frightening on a certain level.

Perhaps he uses writing as his outlet for being serious, because he is uncomfortable with it in the real world. If you look at the story he wrote in Vol. 1 #17, there was nothing goofy or happy about it.

Mike is probably the one of the four who could be underestimated the most by someone who doesn't know him. He may act goofy, but he's not stupid. He may not train on the same level as Leonardo or weight train to the extent of Raphael, but he's certainly no slacker when it comes to his own skills and it seems universally accepted that he has the most natural ability out of the four.

And let's not forget that Mike loves kids. He's drawn towards Shadow the moment he first meets her. This could be for any number of combination of reasons... perhaps he's generally more embracing of humans than his brothers, maybe it's the innocence of childhood where the most serious thing to happen might be a stubbed toe, or just a shared love of life. It was very fitting that in the Archie series Future Mike is shown working with an orphanage.

I think we tend to pick our favorite Turtle based on who we are most like. More often than not, I am told I am most like Donatello, but to this day Michaelangelo earnestly remains my favorite. While I love my computers, I love Mike's love for life and can relate to how he tends to avoid the serious things. I like the different layers that Mike has and that he's so much more than just what he usually lets you see on the surface (although I think that can probably be said of all four, on some level or other).

I really wish he'd get more spotlight in the comics. :ohwell:

[Scandia]

I do not think Mikey gets the least attention of the four. Donnie takes that prize. The OT is extremely Michelangelo centric.

However, it seems to me that Mikey suffers from inconsistent writing. Often he is the most concrete and simple one. Yet in some episodes you see him with hobbies and interests that you would expect only Donnie or Leo fancy.

Mikey was my first favorite- maybe because he can be loud and unintentionally funny like I am at times. At times he could be the healthiest Turtle. There is a reason why he is the one who has had the most girlfriends- and not just because he is the most girl-crazy of the four (while at the same time not being a huge part of his personality, as compared to Irma's boy-craziness). I do not know if he or Raph would be Splinter's worst student- but Mikey is certainly a good son.

[jenna]

Ahhh, Michelangelo.... what can I say? I know I rattled on for hours about the other three but Mikey is the one I find the hardest to talk about. My favourite Mike is movie 1 Mike, because as well as being a lovable clown, he is clearly a lethal fighter.

I will try and pull some more analytical / insightful thougts together about our youngest turtle, but it will have to wait til tomorrow as I have a passion fruit bath waiting.... laters.....:D

[CyberCubed]

Michaelangelo is great, however its noticeable that his personality is tweaked greatly depending on which medium we're talking about.

Original cartoon Mikey was addicted to pizza and very subdued in terms of making jokes. He had a fun personality, but that was about it.

New toon Mikey is an attention-seeker and tries to make jokes whenever he can, but he's also serious when he needs to be and is an excellent fighter. He can also gloat to hours on end, such as with his Battle nexus victory.

Movies 1-3 Michaelangelo seemed the most like comics Mike to me, at least. And 2007 movie seems to treat him like the most naive of the Turtles. It also seems to me that the writers (of all the mediums) tend to market him toward kids the most, which probably accounts for the silly stuff he does.

[Warhorse]

Well, on an emotional level, I relate mostly to Raph, but when I'm not pissed about something, I am just like Mikey, in that I like my entertainment, playing, not being serious about stuff, wanting to have fun and good times.

I also think, despite Leo's and Raph's more agressive attention getting notions, and Donnie's witt, Mikey has some sort of charisma that makes it hard to not like the dude.

But I agree with one of the above posters, the first movie portrayed a perfect Mikey. He was funny, a joker, liked to have fun, but was clearly a threatening presence when challenged. But then again, the first movie seemed to not be restrained from showing Mikey's trwirling nunshucks.:roll:

And he has his moments in the toons. I especially loved the OT episode that had Mikey and Raph pitted againt Leo and Don, on trying to get to the top of a garbage mound. Mikey was content to let Raph do all the work while he scarfed down a pizza. But when a contraption that Don invented catapults garbage onto Mikey and his pizza, Mikey gets pissed and beats all to the top. (Funny, you can screw around all you want with Mikey, but mess with his pizza and he'sll f%^&*() you up!:D

In the new toon, he cracked me up in the one episode when they get lost in Jurassic Park. I just get dismayed that they dont show enough of his witty humor. That's when he's portrayed the best. I really dont care for the times he's going all ballistic over a comic book.

[Time Mistress]

I can't believe I misspelled Mike's name for this topic and I don't mean the extra "a." It was 1:00am when I started the topic and I was tired. So sorry for anyone who noticed.

I like that Mike loves comics as someone who loves comics myself especially TMNT comics. I think it's a nice tribute/in joke to Eastmans & Laird themselves. But I don't like when it seems like Mike ONLY likes comics. Mike is a voracious reader of a lot of genres, especially fiction, and showing kids that he is well-read would be an encouraging thing for little kids to see. I don't like the EXTREME video game obsession either. If anything, before FF I always thought Don to be the most video game obsessive since he invents his own in Mirage.

I think movie 1 Mike is probably the best all-around screen (small or big) portrayal of Mike so far.

Another thing I don't like is that Tales seems to have been taking some of the goofy aspects of 2k3 Mike and working them into Mirage Mike. He still seems fine in Vol.4, but I've noticed a few trends in Tales. I don't mind him being fun and goofy, I just don't want his to become a characacture of his TV self in the medium where he has always been the most well-rounded.

[Sage Ninja]

I think that i'm probably the only one that wasn't completely wowed by Michaelangelo's portrayal in the Live Action Movies, like most people here seem to be. To be honest I wasn't really all that impressed with Michaelangelo in the movies, I mean I agree that he was entertaining and showed that he was a compentant fighter but I didn't get the impression that he was a deadly warrior that shouldn't be triflled with (mostly due to the slap stick tactics he used while fighting)...just very confidant. Its probably because the focus was mostly on Raphael in the first movie that Michaelangelo just seemed in the back ground that I wasn't all that "wow what a cool incarnation of Michaelangelo!"

I've always liked Michaelangelo but I feel he get pushed in the back more often than any of the other turtles when it comes to the serious or emotional stuff for the most part. I notice all the turtles are given this facet to their personalites of seriousness that gives the viewer a deeper or more muli-demencinal look to their characters. In my opinion this isn;'t always given to Michaelangelo in favor of making him more light hearted or something. Which is a shame because Mikey should be given that facet that he isn't just a easy going fun loveing social butterfly that nothing phases him, but a well rounded indivdual that has other emotions, and when pushed to far can get depressed or angry or angsty as any other person. And I get suck of when he isn;t allowed to have this sort of light shined on him. I was really pissed that Michaelangelo's freak out scene in the barn in the movie gets cut out/edited, where he gets all angry and serious because of what has happened to Raphael, or the scene where he is standing on the Barn and screams out Splinter's name in the night in anguish gets dubbed over into Raphael's voice. That was such a disservice to his character in the movie. All the other turtles where given these lengthy despitions to how they where handling the tragidy of the foot attack and Splinter's capture but not really Michaelangelo. And I know they kept in the touching scene where Michaelangelo is crying when the find out Splinter is alive, but I notice that as far as deep emotion goes they only like to have Michaelangelo show the "sensetive" emotion. I guess to keep, with him being the youngest and more innocent of the turtles, which is fine. But why can't any medium other than the comics show Michaelangelo showing any strong emotion? They couldn't have kept the few scenes with him showing raw emotion intact that would have added a bit more to his character?

This a gripe I have with Michaelangelo's character in any serious meduim of the turtles. They don't know how to write him serious or show deeper emotion. And when they do it comes off a bit forced or unconvincing.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Mikey is a very interesting character. Even though out of the Turtles, he's my least favorite, out of every comic charcter, he's my 4th favorite. I love his creativity, I like the fact that the comics have done alot to establish his status as both a talented artist and an accomplished writter. I really wish that would have carryed over into the movies and cartoon shows, it would have made Mikey more than just the party dude.

There are probably some people out there that wonder what purpose Mikey serves with Leo bing the leader, Raph being the muscle, and Don being the brains. Mikey is the definate heart of the team, he's the one that keeps the other Turtles in check. Without Mikey, Leo would be way too stiff and stern, Don would be so into his work that he loses his connection with his brothers, and Raph would have gone of the deep end. Mikey's youthful enthuseaism and easy going attitude that makes him easy to be around and keeps the others grounded. I guess Mikey can be seen as the most improtant Turtle, he's the one that reminds them that they're still teenagers and they're stilla family.

[Sonic x 20]

Ah Mikey, my favorite turtle(even though I love the other turtles as well)!! He's really cool and I like his attitude and humor as well. I do act like all of the turtles, but I act like Mikey the most because I love to make everyone happy and everything else just like him. Mikey maybe the goof ball of the bunch, but he's not a pushover. He's very deadly when he's serious and truely has the most natural talent out of he and his brothers. He's the fun-loving, but he does have alot more about him that we don't know about. Hopefully, alot more will be revealed about him. 8) 8)

[Sage Ninja]

personaly the core element about Michaelangelo's character that i've always been attracted to is that he is warrior and a freak of nature that lives under ground in seclusion leading an abnormal life but seems to be the one that wants normality the most. In the comics he actually goes off and gets him self a job and tries to intergrate into every day day society in Volume four of the Mirage comics. In almost every official version of him in most mediums Michaelangelo has always tryed to emulate social human behavior and act normal despite the fact that he isn't. In some mediums he acts quite postively about his predicament and acts quite obliviuos to the fact that he is a large walking, talking, freaking turtle and goes about life. Despite the weridness and craziness and danger that he encounters from day to day he still carries on as if those where just minor bumps in life that are just things to bear with and then and still carries on with his bussiness. In this sence I think Michaelangelo is very much like his brother Raphael in that he wants to be able to interact with the above world and be apart of society, expect in michaelangelo case I think he just wants to be able to do the every day things other people take for granted and make friends and maybe have a life that isn't so fettered with danger and death and "gray" situations. Just that unlike Raphael who becomes angry and angsty Michaelangelo seems to try do and act as much like humans do up above as if he was actually apart of them.

you would almost get the impression that Michaelangelo is a bit deluded about his situation, since he tries so hard to be something he can't ever fully be. It maybe why he doesn't take the whole warrior bit as seriously as his brothers and why they get so aggravated with him for "goofing off" or not implying himself as much as he should. He is is basically an extravert in a family full of interverts (or one that has no choice but to be interaverts) and so his prioities are diffrent and clash with his more "warrior/stoic" oriented brothers, which could make him appear lazy. I believe the cartoons show Michaelangelo's urge to be just a normal teenager than any other mediums. This also could be in part why michaelangelo seems to lack a definable niche in the group (other than being over shadowed by his brothers more prominent talents), is because--if given the chance, he would probably be something other than a warrior if he could.

Its really quite sad, some mediums (like the old toon) he isn't as blase about this as he is in the comics and even shows pained frustation and grief over being a freak.

[TurtleTrails]

Personally, I think Mikey has the healthiest personality of the four. By being easy going and laid back he tends to let things wash off his back more so then the other turtles. (Water off a turtle’s back? ) Leo would/have had a nervous breakdown, Donnie would lock himself in his lab and cut himself off from all social contact, and Raph would just go berserk get himself killed and probably a couple of gangs with him. Mikey makes a strong effort to be happy and whether that’s because he doesn’t want to deal with uncomfortable issues or whatever it’s still a good attribute to have. Studies have shown that cancer patients with an optimistic view on life have a shorter recovery period. My point being that persons with an overall more positive outlook on life tend to bounce back faster/better then those who don’t.

With that said, I do believe that Mikey has a very serious side to him. He knows a lot more of what’s going on then what he lets on to. I recall in one episode from 2k3 season 4 where he says to Don and Raph to lay off Leo because Leo is being responsible enough for the four of them so that the other turtles can follow their dreams. When heard him say that I thought wow, he really gets it. I haven’t had too much exposure to the comics but from what I’ve seen Mikey tends to trickle in wisdom in a way that is so gentle that the other turtles don’t know how right his is until later. It’s his subtle nature of handling things that I love about Mikey. (When his being serious that is.) He has the potential to be a lot of things..a great ninja, some sort of artist/writer, etc. but he chooses to enjoy what he has around him. Sometimes it’s nice to be around that personality and think, hey, life isn’t so bad.

You’re welcome to disagree with me but that’s my view of Michalengelo~ :)

[Time Mistress]

Well said Sage and TurtleTrails. I agree with a lot of what both of you said. I think Mike's desire to be normal is one of his most interesting characteristics and it's interesting to contrast that with Raph who also is drawn to the human world, but responds to it in a very different way. I like Mike's optimism, and that way of looking at the world, sometimes I can get as frustrated as Raph, but I tend to take Mike's aproach to life and problems, so that's another big way I relate to him.

[Ava Collier]

I think Mikey is the product of what happens when you give a baby, three-fingered, humanoid turtle a weapon he can hit himself on the head repeatedly with...:P

Okay, in all seriousness here I go XD

I only know the movie, and cartoon versions of these characters...well and the versions Ava interacts with.

Mikey is the "Mystic Wise Turtle". He's the empath. He knows exactly how to read people, and what makes them tick. This is how he got Raph to kick his own ass in the battle nexus. This is how he gets under everyone's skin.

I've noticed each of the boys represents Master Splinter in some way. I believe Mikey represents his wisdom...and perhaps even his patience, and tolerance although he seems to test that on a regular basis.

Michelangelo definately has something the other turtles do not...GENUINE self esteem. He can say things like "I'm the pretty one!" and I think he actually means it. I don't think being WHAT he is happens to bother him at all. Mikey's brothers are likely a bit jealous of him for that, even if they won't ever admit it.

[Drtooth]

I have always been a huge Mikey fan. He's always been my favorite. I do admit, I really appreciate Raph the older I get, but Mikey has been my fave since the beginning of the series. in fact, his was the first Turtle action figure I ever got.

I love his childishness and goofiness in all forms, comic, 80's toon, and 2k3! I remember back in the day, I wanted to be that dude with sunglasses beach bum type that was the rave when the show came out because of him. I still prefer Mikey merchandise to any other turtle, and usually buy him first.

I guess he's one of my main childhood heroes, allong with Darkwing and Inspector Gadget. I still love the character, but I guess its mostly nostalgic of me to still love him. I've been thinking alot about Bart Simpson lately for the same reason. i liked Bart before I liked Homer, I liked Mike before I liked Raph.

[Swany]

I think Mikey is the product of what happens when you give a baby, three-fingered, humanoid turtle a weapon he can hit himself on the head repeatedly with...:P

Lol, hes our drunken baby.

Anyay, theres nothing I could really say here that hasnt already been said.
Mikey is a bit of and odd one out. (Although my knowledge is pretty much of 2K3 Mike) He's so laid back. But also serious when the need arises. And hes not a complete idiot, he has intelligence, but he just wants to be happy and enjoy life.

[Scandia]

I do not know if Mikey is wise. In the NT's theme song, I think "wise" means "wisecracker" or "smart-aleck". He seems pretty naive to me.

But he sure does have Splinter's tolerance and patience.

Although if Splinter were to say "Sometimes your child is absolutely nothing like you", he would be referring to TWO Turtles. And Mikey would be one of them!!!

[triplexxx]

He could say that, but it would be denial, because whether he thinks so or not, he has things in common with all his sons. For instance with Leonardo, he believes in seriousness and diligence. With Raphael, Splinter can also experience anger (especially considering his Master's tragedy) and feels passionate about protecting his family. With Donatello, well, he believes in thinking things through and making violence a last resort. With Michaelangelo, Splinter does believe a positive mental attitude is beneficial.

[Scandia]

What I mean is that when the Turtles ask who is his favorite, he would say something like:

"Sometimes you get a child who is just like you."
"Sometimes you get a child who is extremely different from you...or two!"
"And sometimes you get a child who is neither completely like you or totally different either."

[triplexxx]

Well, that would be somewhat more ethical than actually using a name, but a more ethical and simpler (and his most definite) response would be:

"I don't have a favorite, I love you all equally and I always will."

[Coola Yagami]

"I don't have a favorite, I love you all equally and I always will. Naw... who am I kiddin... I love Leonardo the best. The rest of you suck."

[Scandia]

But then, after stating the kind of children he got, he would add that the variety is what makes them so fantastic. And that he loves them all equally.

However, if you said that the Turtles are kind of like Splinter and kind of different from him, this only describes one Turtle: Donatello.

[triplexxx]

"I don't have a favorite, I love you all equally and I always will. Naw... who am I kiddin... I love Leonardo the best. The rest of you suck."
Heheh, yeah right, they'd annihilate him if he said that.
But then, after stating the kind of children he got, he would add that the variety is what makes them so fantastic. And that he loves them all equally.

However, if you said that the Turtles are kind of like Splinter and kind of different from him, this only describes one Turtle: Donatello.
Variety always makes things more interesting. But they all do have their similarities and differences to their father; contrary to popular belief, none are carbon copies of him nor totally opposite of him.

[Scandia]

Yes, but Donnie is truly the only one that does seem to be more of a mix. They all do have traits that Splinter shares- but one has a lot of them, two have very few, and Donnie would be closest to 50-50.

[Time Mistress]

Leo has Splinter's dicipline. Don has Splinter's curiousity and thirst for knowledge. Raph has Splinter's passion. Mike has Splinter's empathy.

[Spitfire]

Mikey has always had potential but they never focus on the better points on him.

I feel only the Image series captured Mikey as he should be. The other incarnations make him out to be a clown more then anything. The new toon espcially and only the episode "Grudge Match" really showed us how Mature he can be.

[VaughnMichael]

Mikey has always had potential but they never focus on the better points on him.

I feel only the Image series captured Mikey as he should be. The other incarnations make him out to be a clown more then anything. The new toon espcially and only the episode "Grudge Match" really showed us how Mature he can be.
I really have to say I agree with everything you said Spit.

[Scandia]

"I don't have a favorite, I love you all equally and I always will. Naw... who am I kiddin... I love Leonardo the best. The rest of you suck."

Actually, it would be more like "Donatello's okay. The other two of you are a pain".

Just kidding. Splinter loves all 4 of them equally, even though some test his patience more than others.

I have seen people speculate whether Donatello could be favorite. But Donatello would be like "What the? Who, ME? I think that having Donatello be favorite would be an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE".

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

His name was misspeled as "Michaelangelo" instead of "Michelangelo" for 17 years (1984-2001). Why? Is it correct in English, or just some early misstake.

[Time Mistress]

Naw, just as mistake that Laird decided to finally correct when 2k3 was launched. But you'll find many fans who still like and use the "a" spelling. Just as there are many who don't.

[jenna]

His name was misspeled as "Michaelangelo" instead of "Michelangelo" for 17 years (1984-2001). Why? Is it correct in English, or just some early misstake.

Actually, in certain 1987 episodes where his name is written it is Michelangelo (spelled correctly) sometimes in the title (although I can't remember which eps) and the eg I'm thinking of is in Cowabunga Shredhead, his name appears on the computer moniter spelled correctly.

Although it was mostly spelled Michaelangelo. I spelled it that way for years when referring to the artist thinking it was correct! :lol:

[Swany]

I still can't spell it without having to look it up somewhere. With or without the extra "A".

[a_big_apple]

Yeah, it's a constant toss-up for me on how I spell it... It depends on the day and how it looks in whatever font it's in, I think! Though I have a tendency to lean toward including the extra a, because my best bud as a kid and first fellow TMNT fan I ever knew was named Michael, and I always associate him with Mikey.

[Sage Ninja]

Personally, I think Mikey has the healthiest personality of the four. By being easy going and laid back he tends to let things wash off his back more so then the other turtles. (Water off a turtle’s back? ) Leo would/have had a nervous breakdown, Donnie would lock himself in his lab and cut himself off from all social contact, and Raph would just go berserk get himself killed and probably a couple of gangs with him. Mikey makes a strong effort to be happy and whether that’s because he doesn’t want to deal with uncomfortable issues or whatever it’s still a good attribute to have. Studies have shown that cancer patients with an optimistic view on life have a shorter recovery period. My point being that persons with an overall more positive outlook on life tend to bounce back faster/better then those who don’t.

I agree with most of what you just said. I do believe that in a sence Michaelangelo seems to be the most emotionally adjusted and even pragmatic turtle of the four somes times. He seems to not sweat the small things and not agonise over it like his brothers would do since i guess he figures that what is done is done and can't be changed he is not going to torment him self with what he could have done since he can't go back in time and change it, so eighther accepts it and moves on or he just deals with the after math. That in its self shows a bit maturtiy of action if you think about it.

The only thing that sort bugs me and comes off as unrealistic as how very blase he can be during times of vise, or when some thing emotionally traumatising happenes and he is still fluttering around like a butterfly ike nothing occured. I mean I can under stand that Mikey probably doesn't sweat the little things, but to show no reaction at all that you would expect from a traumatic experience is just...weird. I find this more promnent in the 2k3 series, where Mikey's reactions or behavior just don't seem right for the situation. Its one of the things that I find bothersome about his character. Ok I under stand he likes to take things light, and I understand that cracking one liners maybe be his way of dealing with stressful situations. But in really dire situations where some imporatant happens I find it bizzar for even for some one with a goofy personality to be clowning around. During Return to New York Mikey was fooling around a few times and it sort of pissed me off a bit. Heck it got to the point where Leonardo actually even chewed him out for acting out.

I guess I just don't get how its possiable that he could be so alright with things and not have any outward reaction to certain situations. In Meet Casey Jones when he was almost seriously hurt by Raphael Mikey didn't show any real emotion about nearly getting killed by his brother. I mean when it was happening he looked scared, but after the inticial ore deal he was acting like he normally does anoying Donatello and acting hyper and cracking jokes. I thought that was weird. Shouldn't he have been a little more shooken up by the experince than that? I mean if I was put in a situantion where I was nearly killed by one of my siblings I think I'd be in a state of shock and probably want to be alone for awhile...not fluttering around the room trying to get Donatello to build him a truck. That bothered me a bit that he seemed like nothing happened to him and it felt like an unrealistic recovery to a genuanly traumatic situation.

With that said, I do believe that Mikey has a very serious side to him. He knows a lot more of what’s going on then what he lets on to. I recall in one episode from 2k3 season 4 where he says to Don and Raph to lay off Leo because Leo is being responsible enough for the four of them so that the other turtles can follow their dreams. When heard him say that I thought wow, he really gets it. I haven’t had too much exposure to the comics but from what I’ve seen Mikey tends to trickle in wisdom in a way that is so gentle that the other turtles don’t know how right his is until later. It’s his subtle nature of handling things that I love about Mikey. (When his being serious that is.) He has the potential to be a lot of things..a great ninja, some sort of artist/writer, etc. but he chooses to enjoy what he has around him. Sometimes it’s nice to be around that personality and think, hey, life isn’t so bad.

You’re welcome to disagree with me but that’s my view of Michalengelo~ :)


I comletely agree with you. Michaelangelo does exude a gentle wisdom about delicate emotinal situations that i think is quite awsome (and one that i wish was played up more in the series). Michaelangelo does seem to have this natural intuation of how to read people. I've always thought that Michaelangelo was very people smart and could intune to what other people are feeling and rather acurately predict how they would react to certain sitautons. In that sense Michaelangelo is very sensetive and intutive, and i think it comes from his sociable nature that lets him ease into social situations well. I also think his brand of "wisdom" comes mostly from his strong moral core rather actual life experince since he hasn't had much of that yet. And yes he can be serious in the new toon its just that its not to often and usually not as straight foward as it could be. Like in Notes from the Underground where he spent the whole time being a drama queen he finnally got serious and took control of the situation to try and calm Raphael down when Leoanrdo disappeared. But other than that his show of seriousness and maturity is far and in between. Mikey in the 2k3 series has the most ambiguous nature since you don't always know how he feels about things or what he thinks. There are times he acts the totla oppisite of how I would normally expect some to act in a situation.

Michelangelo definately has something the other turtles do not...GENUINE self esteem. He can say things like "I'm the pretty one!" and I think he actually means it. I don't think being WHAT he is happens to bother him at all. Mikey's brothers are likely a bit jealous of him for that, even if they won't ever admit it.

I would agree with you on this with Mirage Michaelangelo. Mirage Michaelangelo seems to have incredidable confidence and self esteem in him self and probably isn't as bothered by his being what he is as his Raphael probably does. And yes I think that maybe his brothers are all jealous of him to an extent because of this uneffected attitude. However I will disagree with you that he has genuine self esteem for him self and is unbothered by being a freak in the cartoon mediums. In the cartoons it does appear that Michaelangelo seems to have a bit of a self esteen problem and feels a bit over shadowed by his more serious/capable brothers. In the old toon Michaelangelo f him self and his status (or lack of it) in the the team than in any other version of him. The old toon even dedicated an episode about this called Whats Michaelangelo Good For? that called into question his usefulness to the team and how he fits in the grand scheme of things. Also in the old toon Michaelangelo seems to show the most despair and longing to be a normal boy than the other turtles. He was the only one that really wanted to use the cookies and become human and experience life as regular person in the Gangs All Here. In the 2k3 series, this maybe up for debate but I don't belive Mikey is as confident as he leads on to be. I feel much of his bragging and cocky persona is all just false bravado. Sure I do think he is confident when it comes to his ablites to a degree and that he probably really believes it when he says "I;m the pretty one" but some how I think he feels bit like the "odd turtle out" in the group, and there for rubs any succuss he has in his brothers faces (battle nexus) when ever he does something that makes him stand out over them. I notice Mikey is quick to brag and talk tough, but when it comes to putting his money where his mouth is he doesn't very confident in himself.

[a_big_apple]

In Meet Casey Jones when he was almost seriously hurt by Raphael Mikey didn't show any real emotion about nearly getting killed by his brother. I mean when it was happening he looked scared, but after the inticial ore deal he was acting like he normally does anoying Donatello and acting hyper and cracking jokes. I thought that was weird. Shouldn't he have been a little more shooken up by the experince than that? I mean if I was put in a situantion where I was nearly killed by one of my siblings I think I'd be in a state of shock and probably want to be alone for awhile...not fluttering around the room trying to get Donatello to build him a truck. That bothered me a bit that he seemed like nothing happened to him and it felt like an unrealistic recovery to a genuanly traumatic situation.

But really, given Raph's temper in 2k3 and Mikey's high level of annoyingness, I sort of doubt it was the first time Raph ever nearly pounded him! I mean, maybe it was the first time Raph had lost control of his anger to that point with one of his brothers, but I have a feeling Mikey's felt his wrath often before that moment, lol.

Speaking of 2k3, I have to say that I absolutely love Mikey's cracks about how he's the pretty one, and the many occasions of cross-dressing.... It makes me laugh hysterically every time. What a goob.

[jenna]

I guess I just don't get how its possiable that he could be so alright with things and not have any outward reaction to certain situations. In Meet Casey Jones when he was almost seriously hurt by Raphael Mikey didn't show any real emotion about nearly getting killed by his brother. I mean when it was happening he looked scared, but after the inticial ore deal he was acting like he normally does anoying Donatello and acting hyper and cracking jokes. I thought that was weird. Shouldn't he have been a little more shooken up by the experince than that? I mean if I was put in a situantion where I was nearly killed by one of my siblings I think I'd be in a state of shock and probably want to be alone for awhile...not fluttering around the room trying to get Donatello to build him a truck. That bothered me a bit that he seemed like nothing happened to him and it felt like an unrealistic recovery to a genuanly traumatic situation.




This incident to me is just a reflection of how close Mike and Raph are. They have a very special connection in 2k3 despite the fact they seam to annoy each other. Mike was scared in the moment and his ego took a beating, but at the end of the day he loves Raph - he is used to his outbursts and understands his problems. Mikey is very forgiving as a character: he lets Raph get away with a lot. But his innocence means he can't hide his emotions: when he is happy he is happy, when he is showing off he makes a thing of it. Mike can't stay in a bad mood for long. He probably forgot about the incident pretty fast, and was more concerned about Raph than about himself.

[Leogeddon]

Mikey was always on top of my list of all time favorite characters, in fact all 4 turtles topped the cake, then it were the street sharks. I used to like the battle toads until they said something about being better than the ninja turtles in their game manual, which pushed me away from them. Raph was, is and always will be my fave, but Mikey is closing in on him. He's faster, funnier, and whenever things got serious, he would be a lot of help.

[Time Mistress]

This incident to me is just a reflection of how close Mike and Raph are. They have a very special connection in 2k3 despite the fact they seam to annoy each other. Mike was scared in the moment and his ego took a beating, but at the end of the day he loves Raph - he is used to his outbursts and understands his problems. Mikey is very forgiving as a character: he lets Raph get away with a lot. But his innocence means he can't hide his emotions: when he is happy he is happy, when he is showing off he makes a thing of it. Mike can't stay in a bad mood for long. He probably forgot about the incident pretty fast, and was more concerned about Raph than about himself.

I agree. If you look at the part where Raph says "I need to get some air." Mike makes an obvious move to go after Raph, wanting to talk to him, but Splinter hold Mike back knowing Raph needs some time alone.

[Sage Ninja]

This incident to me is just a reflection of how close Mike and Raph are. They have a very special connection in 2k3 despite the fact they seam to annoy each other. Mike was scared in the moment and his ego took a beating, but at the end of the day he loves Raph - he is used to his outbursts and understands his problems. Mikey is very forgiving as a character: he lets Raph get away with a lot. But his innocence means he can't hide his emotions: when he is happy he is happy, when he is showing off he makes a thing of it. Mike can't stay in a bad mood for long. He probably forgot about the incident pretty fast, and was more concerned about Raph than about himself.

mm, possiable. But if Michaelangelo is a close and senseitive to Raphael as you say he is, wouldn't Michaelangelo know not to atagonise him and taunt him by now? Knowing that Raphael has issues with his temper and self control? That almost seems insensetive of him to try and provoke Raphael like that knowing the emotional anguish it generally causes. And really in Meet Casey Jones Mikey seemed like he was trying to lord over him a bit, even if it was just friendly sparring banter. Its for this reason that I I find his character a bit contradictive in the new series.

He's generally portrayed as being this really empathatic character with an innocent desire to help others and work for a greater cause. But then he acts really insensative to other people and atagonises others. In times where I think he would show some compassion in a situation, its ushally Donatello who acts the most compassinate in most situations I've noticed. As a whole I really see Donatello as filling the role of the empathatic one of the group. Sure I realize that people are one note and that he has quirks but the way its presented at times in the series is a bit jarring.

And I don't really think his emotions are so very obvious. Actually I would argue that out of them Mikey's emotions (at least his deeper ones) are the most ambiguous. The show very rarely delves very deeply into how Mikey feels about dark situations like they do with the other turtles. Like him not being able to go out and about in public. Or how he feels about being a ninja. The closest I have seen the show come to adressing Mikey's feelings about being a ninja are the turtle Titan episodes. On the surface it all seems like he just wants to play super hero, but I think the episode really hints at a deeper dissatisfaction in how things are for him as a ninja that has to keep to the shadows. The episode pushed how much Mikey wanted to be out in the open and aknowledged for his work and accepted by people, instead of always doing things from the shadows. I also felt that in this episode it showed Mikey trying to carve a niche or an idenity for him self in his turtle titan persona; since maybe his brothers hold more promiment roles in the team that he doesn't? Its all under specualtion but I thought that this was why he felt so insulted and pissed off that some one was "stealing" his idenity in that Fast Forward episode.

[jenna]

mm, possiable. But if Michaelangelo is a close and senseitive to Raphael as you say he is, wouldn't Michaelangelo know not to atagonise him and taunt him by now? Knowing that Raphael has issues with his temper and self control? That almost seems insensetive of him to try and provoke Raphael like that knowing the emotional anguish it generally causes. And really in Meet Casey Jones Mikey seemed like he was trying to lord over him a bit, even if it was just friendly sparring banter. Its for this reason that I I find his character a bit contradictive in the new series.



Well, yeah theoretically, but that's Mikey - he doesn't know to say when. Mike knows that all he has to do to beat Raph in a sparring sesion is to wind him up. Raph can't fight accurately when he is being wound up - he becomes rash and opens himself up to quick defeat and Mikey knows this - ala Battle Nexus. In Meet Casey Jones, he went too far and pushed him over the edge. At which point Raph becomes deadly.


And I don't really think his emotions are so very obvious. Actually I would argue that out of them Mikey's emotions (at least his deeper ones) are the most ambiguous. The show very rarely delves very deeply into how Mikey feels about dark situations like they do with the other turtles. Like him not being able to go out and about in public. Or how he feels about being a ninja. The closest I have seen the show come to adressing Mikey's feelings about being a ninja are the turtle Titan episodes. On the surface it all seems like he just wants to play super hero, but I think the episode really hints at a deeper dissatisfaction in how things are for him as a ninja that has to keep to the shadows. The episode pushed how much Mikey wanted to be out in the open and aknowledged for his work and accepted by people, instead of always doing things from the shadows. I also felt that in this episode it showed Mikey trying to carve a niche or an idenity for him self in his turtle titan persona; since maybe his brothers hold more promiment roles in the team that he doesn't? Its all under specualtion but I thought that this was why he felt so insulted and pissed off that some one was "stealing" his idenity in that Fast Forward episode.

There's a lot of truth to this. I think Mike 2 levels: the open and honest level where he wears his heart on his sleeve and laughs when he is happy, shouts when he is angry, quakes when he is scared; and then the deeper level that you talk about - the serious level that he can't mask behind humour.

[junkboy]

While we were kids, and we had a stupid gang :)... I used to pose as Mikey. (Tho i was really not good at skate-board, or video-gaming as His Majesty).
then as i grow up, i started to think if i liked Raph more ( maybe with the effect of old TMNT movie I ).
but then at the end i realised that Mikey was my fave. And still he is...
My friends tell me that laughing and being funny is not one of my habits,lol. but the turtle i like most, is the one opposite to my character.

Tho i really... really like all turtles.
Generally in comics or films... i mean where there is a gang of heroes or friends ( usually different from each other in behaviour ), i cannot love them all completly.
But there is a different magic in TMNT for me that i see all of the characters very well made and great.
Just liike a perfect family.
When Splinter says "my sons" to them... I really like that.
As Gouken calls Ryu "My son"... Just the same effect :)

[Sunshine]

Mikey is really a lot deeper then he lets on. Yeah he makes a lot of jokes and often pushes his brothers buttons, maybe more then he should, but I don't think it's all just fun and games. Mikey seems (at least to me) to do a lot of what he does simply to try and help keep everyone from getting to "serious" I think he knows how much his brothers need to be reminded not everything has to be life and death.

As for his reaction when Raph nearly kills him... first off yeah I don't think it was the first time he'd seen Raph seriously loose it, and he knows Raph never "really" wanted to hurt him. He and Raph are really close and he seems to try most to keep him from getting too lost in his own head if that makes any sense. I don't think it was so much that he wasn't phased by it but rather that he knew Raph was and didn't really want to make his brother feel worse for losing control.

I do think Mikey has a much more serious side but he prefers to help keep his brothers from getting too moody rather then dwelling on his own issues. He seems to vent most of his feelings through fights, sparring, training, video games, and other creative outlets. He has a deep love of life and I agree with what a lot of you have said so far I think he and Raph are the two who most long for a "normal" life. And as the rest of you said they just deal with it differently. I think that is part of the reason they are so close. Although they don't always agree I think they each understand each other, possibly more then either of them understand their other brothers. As for his confidence and self-esteem... he does seem to have good self-esteem but I think a lot of the confidence is more of an act then genuine. A good example of this was the "grudge match" episode. He was happy to brag about his big win over and over for months... but when the thought of having to back it up hit he was panicking.

I have been dubbed the "Mikey" of my group of friends. And I do have a lot in common with him though not as much as I'd like to. I am not nearly as easy going as he is and I have a lot harder of a time keeping a happy face on all the time. Still I think I am mostly like Mikey with strong influences of Raph underneath. That's probably why they are my most favorite turtles. And as for his name... I still have trouble with spelling all of their full names for some reason except for Leonardo the others I am always convinced I'm spelling them wrong. So usually I just go for the short versions. :embarass:

[LiuKangChick]

Mike is my fave amongst the Turtles. Though my personality's a lot like Raph's, I always love finding something fun like Mike does. ^^

[Sage Ninja]

Mikey is really a lot deeper then he lets on. Yeah he makes a lot of jokes and often pushes his brother’s buttons, maybe more then he should, but I don't think it's all just fun and games. Mikey seems (at least to me) to do a lot of what he does simply to try and help keep everyone from getting to "serious" I think he knows how much his brothers need to be reminded not everything has to be life and death.

Actually I think to some degree Mikey does what he does (annoying his brothers playing tricks on them) also as a means of lashing out too as well as keeping thing light. I just get the sense that deep down Mikey is pretty irritated about how things are and he lashes out in a passive aggressive manner by trying to get a rise out of people that are around him. I think, just like all the other turtles, Mikey can get upset and agitated, and he finds an outlet for his negative behavior by being aggressively hyper and agonistic.


I do think Mikey has a much more serious side but he prefers to help keep his brothers from getting too moody rather then dwelling on his own issues. He seems to vent most of his feelings through fights, sparring, training, video games, and other creative outlets. He has a deep love of life and I agree with what a lot of you have said so far I think he and Raph are the two who most long for a "normal" life (...) As for his confidence and self-esteem... he does seem to have good self-esteem but I think a lot of the confidence is more of an act then genuine. A good example of this was the "grudge match" episode. He was happy to brag about his big win over and over for months... but when the thought of having to back it up hit he was panicking:

I think that Mikey has a much deeper side to him self that what he lets on. There are times that is very at odds with his ninja persona and that’s why every one looks at him like he is some kind of clown...when really I think on an unconscious level Mikey is just trying to hang on to his innocence. Its been stated before that Michelangelo is the heart of the group, the innocent that keeps the turtles family from becoming to dark and keeps them on the lighter side of morality. Maybe what Michelangelo fears most is becoming to dark, world weary and hard. And you have to admit that given the turtles life style that wouldn't be too hard to happen.

Maybe that’s why Mikey likes super heroes so much and tries so hard to cultivate his super hero Turtle Titan identity and hang on to it. I think Super heroes represent to Mikey his ideal of being a warrior that makes a difference with out all the dark harsh unpleasant stuff that goes along with being a ninja. I mean from Mikey's point of view he must recognize the difference between him self as a warrior that of super heroes. And the difference really is this: Super Heroes like Silver Sentry are so powerful that they can take on an enemy and get the job done with out killing the enemy since they are easily more powerful. For Super heroes it’s all very black and white. Super hero’s good, villains bad; very cut and clean with no ethical dilemmas; this is a stark contrast to Mikey's life as warrior that is filled with dangerous battles where he or his brothers might not make it out of a battle or its kill or be killed and lots of gray situations where it usually boils down to the lesser of two evils. All the while having to keep to the shadows and have no pay off for the harsh realities he has to endure. In the Unconvincing Turtle Titan episode Mikey pretty much learns that he can do more good from the shadows as a ninja instead of a super hero, so you would think the whole wanting to be a super hero thing would be resolved. But in later episodes it’s shown that Mikey is still hanging on to his superhero alter ego even though he knows that he does more good as a ninja. I think this shows how even though in his head he understands he is a ninja but he doesn't want to altogether give into that reality and hold on to the innocence and simplicity that being a super hero represents.

[Sunshine]

I agree he does cling to his innocence. I think it's pretty obvious he wants more then any of them not just to be out in the open but to be in the spotlight. To be seen and accepted and even looked up to. I think Raph would be happy just to be able to walk around and not be treated like a freak or attacked. Not that I think he would stop helping people even if he could. But Mikey just seems to want more from life and since he can't have the spotlight of the entire world or even the city he makes do with trying to be in the spotlight as much as he can with the others. Such as the Battle Nexus victory and even in the one flashback (I can't remember the name of the episode) when it shows them as kids and Leo was training and focused and was trying his hardest to ignore Mikey, and Mikey wouldn't give up till he finally broke Leo's concentration.

[Ava Collier]

in the one flashback (I can't remember the name of the episode) when it shows them as kids and Leo was training and focused and was trying his hardest to ignore Mikey, and Mikey wouldn't give up till he finally broke Leo's concentration.

Tales of Leo ^_^

[Sunshine]

Thanks I couldn't seem to remember at all.

[Sage Ninja]

I agree he does cling to his innocence. I think it's pretty obvious he wants more then any of them not just to be out in the open but to be in the spotlight. To be seen and accepted and even looked up to. I think Raph would be happy just to be able to walk around and not be treated like a freak or attacked. Not that I think he would stop helping people even if he could. But Mikey just seems to want more from life and since he can't have the spotlight of the entire world or even the city he makes do with trying to be in the spotlight as much as he can with the others. Such as the Battle Nexus victory and even in the one flashback (I can't remember the name of the episode) when it shows them as kids and Leo was training and focused and was trying his hardest to ignore Mikey, and Mikey wouldn't give up till he finally broke Leo's concentration.

You really have got to wonder where this compulsion for attention came from in Mikey. It seems like that is the thing he strives for the most in the new toon. Could it be he feels over shadowed a bit by his brothers maybe that’s why he acts so flamboyantly so as not get over looked by people against the stronger presence his brothers have. I mean really he may come off as obnoxious at times but do you really thing any one would pay him any mind if he wasn't always making his presence known though his antics other wise?
But that aside he wants to be acknowledged and looked up to and praised, and you really have to wonder why this is. I mean the turtles are all individuals with their own characteristics when they are just being them selves. But when it comes to the ninja and team aspect of the turtles lives, its not about the indivdual but the team as a whole. Where the turtles worth is measured by their merits and what they bring to the team. I mean Leo, is the skilled one, Don is the smart one, and Raph is the strong one...what does Mikey bring to the team that shows his worth and invaluably to the team? I mean if Mikey where some how out of commission and couldn't go to battle with his brothers, would the team and its functions be all that crippled with out him? What does Mikey bring to the team that is invaluable that couldn't be readily filled in by one of the other turtles? I mean other than acting as a distraction or something. We saw how the absence of Donatello crippled the teams with the loss of his technological know how when he super mutated.

We saw how the absence of Leonardo affected the team when he went to see the ancient one had. And how Raphael’s absences affect the team; but about Mikey? With out Mikey the team could just as easily go on with out a hitch if he weren’t there (and I mean only what he brings to the team not the emotional influence he has on the family). The team actually wouldn’t suffer too much with out Mikey there. Even though Mikey appears to be content to let his brother do all the tough stuff, I think on a subconscious level Michelangelo is bothered my this and is insecure and maybe why perhaps he is such an attention seeker and wants to be praised for something only he does. I think that maybe that’s why he acts cocky and brags when ever he does something particularly extraordinary. Its false bravado to save face and to build him self up, like his behavior with his battle nexus win.


. So I think Mikey over compensates for this by being really flamboyant and loud so as to get noticed. I mean really he may come off as obnoxious at times but do you really thing any one would pay him any mind if he wasn't always making his presence known though his antics other wise?

[triplexxx]

I mean Leo, is the skilled one, Don is the smart one, and Raph is the strong one...what does Mikey bring to the team that shows his worth and invaluably to the team?
His speed/agility.
I mean if Mikey where some how out of commission and couldn't go to battle with his brothers, would the team and its functions be all that crippled with out him? What does Mikey bring to the team that is invaluable that couldn't be readily filled in by one of the other turtles? I mean other than acting as a distraction or something. We saw how the absence of Donatello crippled the teams with the loss of his technological know how when he super mutated. We saw how the absence of Leonardo affected the team when he went to see the ancient one had. And how Raphael’s absences affect the team; but about Mikey? With out Mikey the team could just as easily go on with out a hitch if he weren’t there (and I mean only what he brings to the team not the emotional influence he has on the family). The team actually wouldn’t suffer too much with out Mikey there.
Remember in "Notes from the Underground 3" when Michaelangelo saved the others butts at the end? And "Turtles in Space 3: The Arena" when the purple monster got a hold of the others at the beginning and would've devoured them had Michaelangelo not gone up and strike it so that it lost its grip? Remember when he used his keen gaming skills to land the ship he Raphael, and Leonardo hijacked to go save Donatello in "Space Invaders 2"? I've said it before, I'll say it again: they can't do without any one of them.

[Revan]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: they can't do without any one of them.

I agree with you and I have to point out that 2k3 does a great job of showing each turtle as important to the team. If you watch the eps you will notice that each turtle has a couple solo eps. Also in each adventure the writers give each turtle at least one moment of glory that shows his importance. Wheather it be Raph saving one of his bros from a sword or Mike delivering a victorious blow or Don simply thinking of a battle strategy.

Leo seems to recieve the most attention from the writers. It is he who "defeats" shredder by cutting his head of, he who kicks Hun's behind, he who defeats Traximus, and he who defeats Karai (and had a chance to kill her)ho defeats. It would be weird to have seen Don defeat the Shredder or Mike or Raph for that matter. Leo just seems to fit best there.

[triplexxx]

Leo seems to recieve the most attention from the writers. It is he who "defeats" shredder by cutting his head of, he who kicks Hun's behind, he who defeats Traximus, and he who defeats Karai (and had a chance to kill her)ho defeats. It would be weird to have seen Don defeat the Shredder or Mike or Raph for that matter. Leo just seems to fit best there.
A first for Donatello defeating Shredder? Check out SAINW, it was due to technology, but it means Donatello outwitted him; and the Sword of Tengu was the real reason for his decapitation, and every one of the turtles got to slice him up good in Secret Origins 3, Raphael was the first.
Raphael also kicked Hun's butt once or twice.
Raphael also defeated Karai and would've killed her in Exodus if Shredder hadn't got in his way. Though Donatello and Michaelangelo never got a chance at one-on-one with her, the one time each of them did come in physical contact with her (D in Scion of the Shredder & M in Good Genes 2) they got a good whack at her, Donatello whacks her while he's in the midst of dealing with her armies and every time she swings at Michaelnagelo in GG 2, she misses, then she gets tossed out the elevator by him and Leonardo.

[Rooish]

Don defeated the Shredder in SAINW because it was Don's episode.

In ensemble episodes, it's usually Leo who does the most damage, or if it is another Turtle, it's sort of pointed out ... as in, "Hey, look, Mikey saved the day this time!"

I will post more on Mikey soon, as this is his thread.

[triplexxx]

I know it's Don's ep. Still, it shows he's just as capable of handling Shredder as any of the others. And all of them always do a lot of damage and aid in saving the day, especially in the major assignments such as Space Invaders & Worlds Collide, Exodus, SS & SSB, RTNY, and Lost Season.

[General Traag]

Michelangelo allways was my favorite turtle when i was young,
must've been the one liners tehe.

When i began to re-watch the old toons in my mid 20's i realized how much of a "stoner"-character you can see in him
(as allready mentioned here).
I mean, i'm sure they didn't had that in mind but more the typical 80's surfer dude when they created the toons (hell he was even part of the HILARIOUS "don't do pot"-campaign in the early 90's).

Anyways...i still like michelangelo most (of the good guys), he's like me, **** happens and keep it easy. =]

[Sage Ninja]

His speed/agility.

they are all fast and agile. I don't think he really trumps the othe turtles in those areas.

Remember in "Notes from the Underground 3" when Michaelangelo saved the others butts at the end? And "Turtles in Space 3: The Arena" when the purple monster got a hold of the others at the beginning and would've devoured them had Michaelangelo not gone up and strike it so that it lost its grip? Remember when he used his keen gaming skills to land the ship he Raphael, and Leonardo hijacked to go save Donatello in "Space Invaders 2"? I've said it before, I'll say it again: they can't do without any one of them.

I was refereing to how he is lacking a definable nich in the battle area of the team. Like if the turtles where all players on a chess board. Which turtle would have the most importance to the over-all game and which one is expandable with out it hurting the out come of the game? I know pretty cold and calculating to think of them in this way, but thats what I was trying to find out what other opinions where. I know you've mentioned that Mikey has moral and keeps the turtles from becoming to battle weary and cold but that is his over-all influence on an emotinal level. I was just commenting on how he does not have an area of expertise on a more active level. I mean if you break it down Leo is the Leader, Don is the technical guy, and Raph is the strong one (in an overly simplified manner). I was just theorising that maybe on a subconscience level Mikey sees how he doesn't have an over all important role in the team other than decoy, and that why he stepped back and created his own alter-ego in Turtle Titan so that he could shine and function on hos own with out his brothers stealing his thunder.

Also i'd probably feel more inclined to accept his role of importance as the teams moral if the other turtles didn't act so...well, unappreciative and mildly disdainful of Mikey's "Hey lets keeps our spirits up and faces grinning" antics. In general they seem completly annoyed by.

[triplexxx]

they are all fast and agile. I don't think he really trumps the othe turtles in those areas.
The case is the same with the other turtles and their areas of dominance in training. Leonardo's most skilled, but not much more than his brothers. Raphael is strongest, but not that much stronger than his brothers. Donatello....well, he may be smartest, but there's two types of smarts; science-smart & street-smart; in the science-smarts he's very dominant over his bros, even though Raphael has shown some experience with mechanics too (Shell Cycle), but in the street-smarts he's equal or a bit below his bros, so I'd say that levels the playing field in the "smart" category.
I was refereing to how he is lacking a definable nich in the battle area of the team. Like if the turtles where all players on a chess board. Which turtle would have the most importance to the over-all game and which one is expandable with out it hurting the out come of the game? I know pretty cold and calculating to think of them in this way, but thats what I was trying to find out what other opinions where. I know you've mentioned that Mikey has moral and keeps the turtles from becoming to battle weary and cold but that is his over-all influence on an emotinal level. I was just commenting on how he does not have an area of expertise on a more active level. I mean if you break it down Leo is the Leader, Don is the technical guy, and Raph is the strong one (in an overly simplified manner). I was just theorising that maybe on a subconscience level Mikey sees how he doesn't have an over all important role in the team other than decoy, and that why he stepped back and created his own alter-ego in Turtle Titan so that he could shine and function on hos own with out his brothers stealing his thunder.

Also i'd probably feel more inclined to accept his role of importance as the teams moral if the other turtles didn't act so...well, unappreciative and mildly disdainful of Mikey's "Hey lets keeps our spirits up and faces grinning" antics. In general they seem completly annoyed by.
Well, they still need him in battle whether they think so or not. Michaelangelo is by no means negligible.

[Sage Ninja]

Michelangelo allways was my favorite turtle when i was young,
must've been the one liners tehe.

When i began to re-watch the old toons in my mid 20's i realized how much of a "stoner"-character you can see in him
(as allready mentioned here).
I mean, i'm sure they didn't had that in mind but more the typical 80's surfer dude when they created the toons (hell he was even part of the HILARIOUS "don't do pot"-campaign in the early 90's).

Anyways...i still like michelangelo most (of the good guys), he's like me, **** happens and keep it easy. =]

I think the whole surfer thing was just given to old Michaelangelo to give him a sence of coolness and maybe even savy persona. Sure I know alot of people look at him now and think, hmm he sounds a bit like a stoner, but really I think Michaelangelo's personality emoted a bit more than that. Not just a monotoned "Duuude...I am so wasted" sort of way like others have suggested. What I liked about Old toon Michaelangelo was he wasn't just one note. He was set up as a cheerful and light hearted guy but I really liked how he could also be believeable sad or upset and even a bit agnsty, with out those emotions making it appear OOC (out of character) for him. He wasn't just forever excitable and hyper all over the place all the time. I don't know I just detected a bit of a sadness about old toon Michaelangelo like he wasn't saticfied with the way things where for him and he was the most frustrated about it.

Also I liked how when the show get more serious during Red Sky that they allowed Michaelangelo's character to become more serious along with the rest of the turtles instead of foiceing him to play the comic relief, while still maintaining empathatic and laid back personality. In all other incarnations of the turtles the other turtles are allowed to grow and be serious but i often find Mikey is forced to stay the comic relief character which has always irked me.

[Revan]

A first for Donatello defeating Shredder? Check out SAINW, it was due to technology, but it means Donatello outwitted him; and the Sword of Tengu was the real reason for his decapitation, and every one of the turtles got to slice him up good in Secret Origins 3, Raphael was the first.
Raphael also kicked Hun's butt once or twice.
Raphael also defeated Karai and would've killed her in Exodus if Shredder hadn't got in his way. Though Donatello and Michaelangelo never got a chance at one-on-one with her, the one time each of them did come in physical contact with her (D in Scion of the Shredder & M in Good Genes 2) they got a good whack at her, Donatello whacks her while he's in the midst of dealing with her armies and every time she swings at Michaelnagelo in GG 2, she misses, then she gets tossed out the elevator by him and Leonardo.

I'm not talking about picking little fight sequnces out of episodes. I'm just saying Leo defeated shredder first, and hun, and Karai, and Trax. Anyway if you're denying that Leo is the most polished in ninjitsu then I shouldn't even be replying to this post.

Don't throw SAINW in there either because I don't believe that was reality. If it was, why would Don be sucked back to the present with no explanation.

[triplexxx]

I'm not talking about picking little fight sequnces out of episodes. I'm just saying Leo defeated shredder first, and hun, and Karai, and Trax. Anyway if you're denying that Leo is the most polished in ninjitsu then I shouldn't even be replying to this post.
I'm not denying anything, I'm simply saying the others have proven just as capable of such accomplishments, and defeating Shredder was something that took all their efforts to accomplish, and without the Sword of Tengu, the decapitation wouldn't have happened. Laird stated that the turtles were created different but equal, and it is true that every turtle possesses their own adavantage over the others. And with the exception of Donatello's and Michaelangelo's contacts with Karai, these fights are real, not just minor sequences. Raphael really did defeat Hun and Karai. And in each Shredder story here: RTNY, SSB, and Exodus; every turtle gave Shredder some decent blows, but without the Sword of Tengu or advanced technology, not one of the turtles was ever a match for him.
Don't throw SAINW in there either because I don't believe that was reality. If it was, why would Don be sucked back to the present with no explanation.
It wasn't, but since the actual present-day Donatello was actually there, the epsiode did show what he was capable of. He's just as capable of handling Shredder as any of the others.

[Sage Ninja]

I'm not denying anything, I'm simply saying the others have proven just as capable of such accomplishments, and defeating Shredder was something that took all their efforts to accomplish, and without the Sword of Tengu, the decapitation wouldn't have happened. Laird stated that the turtles were created different but equal, and it is true that every turtle possesses their own adavantage over the others. And with the exception of Donatello's and Michaelangelo's contacts with Karai, these fights are real, not just minor sequences. Raphael really did defeat Hun and Karai. And in each Shredder story here: RTNY, SSB, and Exodus; every turtle gave Shredder some decent blows, but without the Sword of Tengu or advanced technology, not one of the turtles was ever a match for him.

good points triplexxx. You really seem to push the whole turtles are equal on diffrent planes concept alot, and I like that. I think it really depends on predicament and surroundings (even what mood they are in) that determine how well one of the turtles will fight against an enemy. its just that sometimes in battle situations it takes the strength of the four of them to defeat an eneny and really they all depend on each other. Mikey for example is supposed to have all this untapped potenctial but I noticed that in battle he gets nocked down alot and is ushally needs to be bailed out of trouble. (they all have their moments actually) I've noticed it that iDoantello is constantly bailing Mikey out oif trouble. In season four I remeber that there was a string of episodes back to back where in the midst of battle Mikey gets in trouble and Donatello has to intervene and bail him out.