Why does Baxter get mutilated/abused in every version he's in?

[CyberCubed]

Good ol' Baxter Stockman, whether he's a wimpy white scientist with blonde hair, or an arrogant african american...he's always cowered under the wrath of the Shredder.

Not only does Shredder make use of Baxter's brilliance in both the original cartoon and 2k3 series, but he's also clearly his whipping boy. Shredder mutilates Baxter in the 2k3 series until he's nothing but a brain, whereas in the old toon Shredder basically sentences Baxter to death but he transforms into a mutant fly instead. It also seems clear that Shredder favored Bebop/Rocksteady over Baxter at that point, since he never tries to do anything as harsh to them.

The Mirage Comics never really depicted Baxter this way, and I don't think Baxter had anything to do with Shredder at all in the comics.

While I do really like how Baxter was handled in the new toon, I've always had a soft spot for mutant fly Baxter, and you would always feel sorry for him and the way Shredder constantly takes advantage of him in the series. I liked that he had that alien computer who became his only friend in Season 3/4, it was a nice way to showcase how he wanted a return to his humanity. (something the 2k3 series also touches upon with Baxter's Season 4 episode that wasn't aired on TV).

So, what do you think of Baxter and how he's depicted in the TMNT universes? Do you like cyborg Baxter or mutant fly Baxter better?

[Jo Dawn]

To answer your thread title...

...Because he likes it. ;)

[Coola Yagami]

Ironically, in the Mirage series (Volume 2) Baxter mutilates himself, basically putting his own brain in a killer robot, leaving his brainless body behind for police to find.

Though the robot is destroyed, it seems Don was keeping the brain alive all this time in Volume 4, which he blew up after he found out that Baxter was behind April fatal condition and would do nothing to stop it.

[Sage Ninja]

Is it alright to say I liked them both? In the old toon Baxter earned my sympathy suince he clearly got screwed over by all parties involved in the series. Shredder, Krang, and even to a degree the turtles as well. Baxter Stockman in the old toon really represented the unconscience darkness and grittiness the 1987 show had potenticail of but never really went fully in that direction. He is one of the few trully tragic characters on the show that defiled of his human form. And really if you think about it Baxter Stockman in the old toon is a perfect example of what happens to people who runs with dangerous calculating people but isn't tough or depraved enough to go down to their level with them play the game. He was out of his league and he payed dearly for it because he was to trusting.

And yes it was nice he befriended a computer...but am I the only one that got the impression in Son of Return of the Fly that the alien computer was useing Baxter? It just seemed like the computer was manipulating Baxter the whole time to do what he wanted. I don't know it just seemed the computers demeanor was afully superficial and patranizing towad Baxter with his "pal-sey wal-sey" endearments. I watched that whole episode expecting the computer to back stab Baxter. :ohwell: Baxter Stockmans fate and mistreatment was one of the few really dark elements of the old series.

As for the New toon. Baxter's definately more threatening and deleberately evil than the his old toon counter-part. However unlike fly Baxter, this version of Baxter inspires no sympathy from me. I mean he is a sorry character but more in a pathatic way than "oh, poor thing" way. I guess if I had seen Insane in the membrane I might feel more toward hij than I do, but his arrogance and depraveity is really what lands him in his predicaments, so he deseveres it. And his mutaltions was just over the top on several occassions. Every episode there was less of him. And Shredder seemed to have less tolreance from Baxter's failurs than any one else. It was like he looked for excuses to dismember him. It was weird. Especially since Hun failed about as much as Baxter did. maybe Shredder is raceist or something. :ohwell:

[triplexxx]

OT Baxter started out as basically a desperate, mild-mannered inventor/scientist for hire in the first episode he was in, then he turned somewhat egotistical later and in the second season did come off as a willing killer, but was always quite a pushover and, yes, a tragic character who was abused down to the point where all he cared about was vengeance. And he was somewhat foolish for getting in over his head, getting involved in parties that were out of his league. But once he was pushed past his breaking point, no matter how many times he "got it", he didn't lose an ounce of courage/stubborness and continuosly persisted in trying to get even with the parties that ruined his life.

NT Baxter suffered the similar fate as his OT counterpart, in that he was abused to the point where all he cared about was vengeance because he involved himself in parties he shouldn't have because he's desperate to seek employment and, not to mention, boost his ego (though his punishments were somewhat more severe). But before his first major punishment, he had already shown to be a ruthless killer when he let the mousers destroy the turtles' first home and sent them after April when she found out about his connection to Shredder. Though all his punishments were harsh, and though I did feel he had every right to throw it back at Shredder, he was definitely a glutton for punishment->huge on ego, endless in arrogance, and extremely ungrateful for any of the sympathy he got from the three characters who did show him any respect/sympathy: Bishop, Karai, and Chaplin. Amazing how Chaplin continuously looked up to Baxter, giving him all credit for his own accomplishments and never losing respect for him...Chaplin's more of a pushover than OT Baxter, but definitely more gentleman-like.

[MoreCowbell5263]

Sage Ninja, I totally agree with you, I felt so bad for Baxter in that OT episode, and I was expecting the computer to rip him off or stab him in the back but it never happened so I didn't know what to think. Those little petnames also sounded insincere to me, too, like he was just saying it to earn Stockman's trust so he could screw him over in the end, but because the plan failed, I'm not sure what the computer's motives were. I'd love to see an episode where Baxter finally does show and prove that he's someone to fear, because having the ability to fly and his genius should be something to be afraid of.

[odupianist]

I see/saw the OT Baxter as more of a comedic point in the cartoon and parody as well (I mean we all know he was a parody off the movie, The Fly, right?). He was always having bad things happen to him, just like Shredder, but somehow we felt more for him. Maybe cause we didnt see him that much.

Insane in the Membrane may make you feel sorry for NT Baxter, but I dk. It's the only time his mother is really mentioned. By this point in the series, the only thing the man wants to do is die. He just wants to rest in peace but Bishop will have none of it. So by this point, I started to feel sorry for him.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

In the Archie TMNT Adventures comics, he never got mutilated/abused.

[Jon]

In the Archie TMNT Adventures comics, he never got mutilated/abused.


Maybe so. But... he was in it for, like, just a few issues anyway (the cartoon adaptations).

[oldmanwinters]

In the Archie TMNT Adventures comics, he never got mutilated/abused.

In one of the Armagon related issues, there was a flashback to issue #4 (Baxter's last real appearance) and showed that Armagon grabbed Shredder after he and Baxter escaped into the sewers from the Turtles. (This is a continuity problem, by the way, since Splinter originally forbade the Turtles to pursue them). I always wondered what happened to Baxter. Did Shredder say he left Baxter to his fate with the Turtles/police, or are we to assume (a) he got away never to be seen again or (b) Armagon killed him? It seems he may have just gone to prison/asylum for a very long time.

[Leogeddon]

a lot of times i thought the black baxter should have kept his mouth shut

especially whenever he talked trash to Hun, i mean, c'mon.

[Buslady]

cos its funny:D

[Deathknight]

Personally, I never really liked what became of Baxter in any universe. In the old toon series it wasn't that bad when he was just a mutated fly trying to get revenge on Shredder but in Son of Return of the Fly II and Revenge of the Fly it just got stupid. Baxter basically became a brainless idiot who had to rely entirely on the alien computer to think for him. Not only that, for some reason he somehow became incredibly strong and took down foot soldiers, Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady with absolutely no problem. Now it kind of makes sense that he's strong because insects are much stronger than humans for their size usually but why apply the concept so suddenly? In Return of the Fly, Shredder simply catches him in his cape and has Bebop and Rocksteady hold him down. I really don't think it would've been the same in the later episodes.
As for the new toon, I felt his progression was kind of odd. I'm going by what I remember, it's been awhile and I only watched up to the first few episodes of season 4. Baxter starts out as the mad scientist who teams up with Shredder to take over the city using his mousers. Then he fails and comes back but missing with an eye patch. He creates the foot-tech ninja, fails again and ends up in a wheel chair. Then came that insanely big robot body he created to kill Shredder but only his head was inside. After that he somehow ended up as a tiny spider. Then came the finaly basically where he was just simply his brain and would be put in different bodies. I hate how he constantly changed and how little sense some of the changes made. I mean, how did he possibly end up as a tiny spider with a tiny version of his head attached? The whole thing about him only having his brain left was weird too. I really find it kind of hard to believe that he was able to "speak" or even control anything using simply his brain. It was just not a good evolution for him. I think they should've even gotten rid of him or kept him about the same.

[Coola Yagami]

It wasn't a minuature version of his head, the spider robot wasn't THAT small. It was his regular human head. He then used his head (heh) on the Ultrom bodysuit in the Leatherhead and City at War episodes.


As for when he became a brain, he was hooked up to some sort of device that allowed him to speak... I guess...

[Sage Ninja]

Personally, I never really liked what became of Baxter in any universe. In the old toon series it wasn't that bad when he was just a mutated fly trying to get revenge on Shredder but in Son of Return of the Fly II and Revenge of the Fly it just got stupid. Baxter basically became a brainless idiot who had to rely entirely on the alien computer to think for him. Not only that, for some reason he somehow became incredibly strong and took down foot soldiers, Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady with absolutely no problem. Now it kind of makes sense that he's strong because insects are much stronger than humans for their size usually but why apply the concept so suddenly? In Return of the Fly, Shredder simply catches him in his cape and has Bebop and Rocksteady hold him down. I really don't think it would've been the same in the later episodes.

you are right about how Baxter went from intelligent to brainless. I kind of had an issue with that because as a scienctist he was a push over but he was potencially dangerous, he posed a genuiane threat to the turtles in season two when he brtrayed Shredder and took the eye of Zarnoth and tried to kill the turtles him self. So basically when he showed the inticative Baxter the Scienctist was a good and intersting villan. I liked his whole vengence angle when he was a fly. He was tragic and what was done to him made his desire to get revenge interesting. However I wasn't so thrilled about him becoming stupid. It just made him just liike every villan in the show that was rock stupid :roll:. But in a way him becoming more and more stupid as time went buy made sence because he was mutated with a fly. I just figured that as time went by his human intellenge was gradually deteriating and his fly characteristics where becomeing dominate...like his increased strength, his compulsion for garbage and sugar. His deteroation seemed to happen in stages. Notice how when Shredder captures Baxter in his cape, Baxter still had the intellenge to formulate a plan to set up the turtles and Shredder and make a noxious vapor to put in the pipes and kill them. When he met the computer his intellengece was a little less keen and he was collecting garbage.

[atgthatsme]

good point his intellegince was gone once he became a fly

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I hope Baxter eventually gets a human body in the 2K3 series. After all, Bishop clones himself bodies all the time (that's how he's survived a hundred and fifty+ years). Why can't he give Baxter a second cloned body?

And yeah, I feel sorry for him in Season Four 2K3... but he needs to quit mouthing off to Hun. The Purple Dragon is just a tad bigger than Baxter. :P

[Jon]

I hope Baxter eventually gets a human body in the 2K3 series. After all, Bishop clones himself bodies all the time (that's how he's survived a hundred and fifty+ years). Why can't he give Baxter a second cloned body?


Well, yeah.

They apparently did have some arrangement (from what's said at times)... but Baxter was just too eager to get a new body, he didn't want to wait til Bishop was ready (as seen in "Insane in the Membrane").

[Spike Spiegel]

For awhile I felt sorry for new toon Baxter...but now I think he is an idiot....mouthing off to Hun and all. I think Shredder is a little biased towards him as compared to Hun though.

As for old toon Baxter, I've only seen the first ep with him and the Mousers. Very timid little guy, he got in with the wrong crowd. This was evident from his first appearance.

[Sage Ninja]

I think 2k3 Baxter needs to stop mouthing off in general. I mean for some one who is supposed to have a high I.Q he sure doesn't have the smarts or self preservation to stop doing the things that get him brutally mutalilated. :ohwell: Its his arrogance that lands him in trouble all the time and its why I can't muster any sympathy for him (although I guess if I saw Insane in the Membrane my opinion might change). He brings it on him self.

Baxter in the old toon despite how smart he was, simply didn't have the calculating ruthlessness to play the game as well as the other people in the show. In so,me shape or form he was being used or manipulated. I really suspect that the alien computer had its own agenda and was just useing Baxter and taking advantage of his detoriated state to get what he wanted. If the plan had succeeded in Return of the Son of the Fly (was that name of it?) that the computer probably would have back stabbed Baxter and left him.