Biggest TMNT Problems so far...

[Vegita-San]

In the past, Kevin Eastman tried to keep TMNT going with Next Mutation. Despite it's problems (Better costumes than movie 3, but even worse mouth movements) it wasn't the best version of TMNT out there, and TMNT went dormant for a few years.

Now it's a new era, and TMNT once again has it's problems. So, what do you think are the problems keeping it from becoming a hit like Batman, or Superman that could have super long runs?

Lets get he obvious out of the way first.....

1 - Too many people have too much say in what goes on in the franchise. Since when do Overseas partners have enough say that a main character has his primary weapon replaced? OR an entire series direction changed to a lighter, happier version?

2 - Playmates should have no decision on where the show goes, or how the toys are done. Period. Playmates should be gotten rid of completely when even the MOVIE toys are starting to get useless turtle variants...

3 - Peter needs to write an overall story arc for the series and let someone else handle the writing, and especially drawing. Poor old Pete seems to be so overworked, as running a company, even the decent sized one Mirage is, is a huge undertaking for anyone. I think someone other than Jim Lawson needs to be doing the art(he's lost his touch since City at War) and he either needs a writing team to help him flesh out story ideas, or to write scripts down.

There's nothing wrong with getting help from other folks, so long as you're in there pitching ideas with them to keep the 'vision true' as it where.

Anything else?

[odupianist]

I couldn't agree with number 1 more. They need to stop appeasing to all the different groups. That's fine that they can aim it at kids with the original toon, hell that's what got most of us started. But making changes like weaponry or styles like FF to appease people is just silly. I think.

[Roseangelo]

I've ranted about this subject more than I probably should have in the last few months. If anyone isn't sick of what I have to say and/or somehow hasn't read it, you can shoot me a PM.

[The Shelf]

In the past, Kevin Eastman tried to keep TMNT going with Next Mutation. Despite it's problems (Better costumes than movie 3, but even worse mouth movements) it wasn't the best version of TMNT out there, and TMNT went dormant for a few years.

Haha, not only was TNM not the best version of TMNT out there, it's one of the worst. I can think of one or two others that were worse, but I'd have to say TNM was about third worst. Was Eastman the one responsible for TNM? I didn't realize that. It makes me wonder why people swoon so much over him.

Since when do Overseas partners have enough say that a main character has his primary weapon replaced?

Since the 90's apparently....

Personally, I think if no one had a say in the turtles except the folks at Mirage, then the franchise would be much better off. Until that happens, expect TMNT to struggle since there are too many hands in the bucket, so to speak. That's the biggest problem for TMNT.

The only other problem I think TMNT has is that there are so few people in Mirage. If they had more people to share the load, then I think they could do a lot more with it. As it is, they seem to be stretched a little thin.

[Drtooth]

2 - Playmates should have no decision on where the show goes, or how the toys are done. Period. Playmates should be gotten rid of completely when even the MOVIE toys are starting to get useless turtle variants...

That's the problem... the varients. they helped kill the line in a time when the economy isn't kind to toy lines. Great toy lines were nipped in the bud, and often others aren't widely available, and suffer because they're only available at one store (which charges too damn much... TRU cough cough). The one thing I think is a problem is the $10+ action varients that use basically the same culpt, but put 2 cheap-ass action features into it. The toy line would have done wine without them. Sky Turtles? Did that actually go anywhere? And the battle Tops... what were they thinking?

That's the main reason we got FF, because they needed good varients, and not just put random clothes on old sculpts that have little or nothing to do with the show itself (Paleo patrol was the last straw).

As for the series, it IS doing fine. It's been on at least 5 years so far, with at least a year and a half to go. In this day and age? That's bloody amazing for a non-cable show to go even past 3 years (which some morons think is a good stopping point, like rushing the ending to Xioalin Showdown to 2 mintues before the end credits). Heck, for a series to get past a full season is a feat in and of itself.

I just think more people got more out of the movie (and a lot more, had that stupid Meet the robinsons thing come out 2 weeks later than it did) than the series, recently... the movie toys flew off the shelves even BEFORE the movie. They may seem sedintary now, but that's because it's the akward stage between the film being in theaters and the film being on DVD.

I do agree that Peter needs to get involved and we don't have to try to get the show to appeal to everyone so much (though I think that it should appeal to kids and Adults, since those kind of shows are always the best written).

Oops... forgot one thing. We also have to realize that the company most responsible for promoting the series and furthuring the franchise is 4Kids, which had the business sense of a French Toast "R" Stick.

[Scandia]

- They need to stop appeasing people who care more about another green thing than about the Turtles.

- What could possibly be worse than TNM? The concept alone seems so bad that it automatically turned me away. And from what I see, it has been very poorly executed as well.

- I just want to see more NT. With good plots and character development- like what I have seen of it has so far. OK, so I have only watched about 2/3 of the first season, 2 episodes of the 4th one, and a Lost Season one. But so far it is excellent- no, make that superb.

[Spike Spiegel]

I want closure for the NT so I can proudly blow my money on the DVDs.

[Andrew NDB]

In the past, Kevin Eastman tried to keep TMNT going with Next Mutation. Despite it's problems (Better costumes than movie 3, but even worse mouth movements) it wasn't the best version of TMNT out there, and TMNT went dormant for a few years.

And then fast forward to now, history repeats itself.

Now it's a new era, and TMNT once again has it's problems. So, what do you think are the problems keeping it from becoming a hit like Batman, or Superman that could have super long runs?

Depends on what you're talking about, really. Do you mean to make it a long-running movie franchise, making a successful kid's cartoon, or a making for a successful ongoing comic? To talk about one in reference to the other is to compare apples to oranges.

If you mean the franchise in general, it's a vicious cycle that historically has been repeating itself every time TMNT rises. The fans get older, let's make the TMNT younger, younger than even they were beforehand! Yah

Lets get he obvious out of the way first.....

1 - Too many people have too much say in what goes on in the franchise. Since when do Overseas partners have enough say that a main character has his primary weapon replaced?

Since the new movie was allowed to be funded by chickensh*t, spineless toy-fandanglers that don't want to upset anyone, anywhere.

OR an entire series direction changed to a lighter, happier version?

I assume you mean FF. Well, can't fault them for that... 4Kids' ratings were hitting near cancellation numbers before they launched FF. What they were probably thinking was, "OK, numbers are down for the cartoon... we need a temporary solution to tide ratings over until the new movie hits, at which time the cartoon will probably acquire a great many more viewers who liked the movie."

The temporary solution was FF. It was that, or cancel the show, lay everyone off, and then restart the show after the movie... which isn't economically feasible.

2 - Playmates should have no decision on where the show goes, or how the toys are done. Period. Playmates should be gotten rid of completely when even the MOVIE toys are starting to get useless turtle variants...

They shouldn't, but they do.

3 - Peter needs to write an overall story arc for the series and let someone else handle the writing, and especially drawing. Poor old Pete seems to be so overworked, as running a company, even the decent sized one Mirage is, is a huge undertaking for anyone. I think someone other than Jim Lawson needs to be doing the art(he's lost his touch since City at War) and he either needs a writing team to help him flesh out story ideas, or to write scripts down.

All I'll say here is that Laird can do whatever the heck he wants with Volume 4 and I'll buy it and am interested in seeing it.

His tone-less redux of Volume 1... another story, but I respect it if it's his vision.


Anything else?

Oh, plenty. There's just a fundamentally flawed approach to the way TPTB come at how a property like TMNT should be marketed and treated, and what demographic to revolve primarily it around in any media aside from the comics themselves.

Bottom line, forget about any spinoff TMNT has spawned, no matter how loved they've been among their target demographic (cartoons, action figures, even the films). TMNT is a mature comic with mature content... let's see them bring this vision to the big screen (or whatever). If it fails at least -- for the first time -- they actually tried.

[Kendamu]

I don't care how they solve the problems (as long as they're actually solved), but here's my problems:

1) TMNT 2k3 DVDs need to come out as seasons, not half-seasons.

2) TMNT 2k3 needs to get out of this "temporary fix" and go back to the present.

3) Volume 4 needs to get printing again and it needs more action.

4) Tales needs to be easier for me to aquire. My local shop seems to have become too stupid to continue carrying it. BTW, can anyone PM me on how to get ahold of the TPBs?

5) Kevin Eastman needs to make a new TMNT TPB... and make Bodycount easier to find in TPB.

6) And another thing! Hollywood corperate buttheads need to stop being such wimps with the TMNT movies. No flying shuriken on-screen? Mikey's nunchaku have to be implied while swinging to hit someone? Gimmie a break! There's more than one way to hit someone with nunchaku and in the super-close-range combat that Mikey is normally seen in he would be hammering the ends of the sticks into pressure-points and following up with punches and kicks, anyway (kinda' similar to how he used them in the first movie if you look closely). PG can still have decent-length action scenes. Look at the Incredibles. PG, but had action scenes that lasted forever and a day.

6.5) If not in theaters, than at least give us a good quality direct-to-DVD release of a TMNT movie that's truely based on the comics.

Those are my major problems. As long as the problems are actually solved, I almost don't care how it gets done.

[Drtooth]

If TMNT is hitting near cancellation numbers, than it's still 4Kid's highest rated show :tanime:

I felt they did do a great job with the new movie, and had Meet the Robinsons had a later release date by 2 weeks, it would have done a lot better. But then again, selling out a toyline before the movie comes out and at least hitting #1 once isn't that bad. The movie may have to decide the fate of the series, and other than the fact the toys are starting to lay dormant (once again, it's before it hits DVD, and it's no longer in theaters).

4Kids always had low ratings. Even last year with Kid's WB's worst line up ever. I mean, they're getting spanked by a boarderline copywrite infringement on Spongebob and That Looney Tunes action bastardization? You deserve to go bankrupt there, sport.

But it's been popular for 5 years, and now there's a slump. Think about it. That hits EVERY single intellectual property that lasts a while. It happened to the Simpsons and South Park, and look how big those became again. Unfortunately, due to our s$#t-conomy, less and less people are willing to ride the slump, and if anything hits the "we lost 20 viewers" mark, everyone bails out and sits in a corner and cries. Ratings are BS anyway, since all they do is measure how many people are watching a slot to see how much they can charge for a commercial.

[Andrew NDB]

If TMNT is hitting near cancellation numbers, than it's still 4Kid's highest rated show :tanime:

It is now, not immediately prior to FF. It's the highest it's been in two years, probably due in no small part to the movie.

Their temporary solution paid off.

[Drtooth]

I'm talking about even the low numbers of TMNT in general are the best these guys ever get. Who wants to watch chopped up anime, and pathetic attempts to sell out for the moronic pretweenage girls market.

Maybe if they find someway to ripoff High School Musical.... (Shut up, Dr. Tooth! Shut Up! You're giving them ideas...)

[lilraph]

i agree with number two also. Why cant we just keep the original figures. I dont need mikey the body builder, mikey the delivery driver, mikey goes shopping, and easy bake mikey. Or maybe have a company that makes more authentic figures also. YOu know the way the first two movies were done, they almost make you feel like the turtles are kinda real life or that they could exist. Some of the more out of the world episodes and third movie killed that. I think storage shell turtles kinda did too. just my two cents.