View Full Version : When did you suspect Shredder?
ToTheNines
06-30-2007, 10:26 AM
At what point did you first think Shredder might be an utrom? I always thought somthing fishy was going on with Saki, but I knew he was one for sure right when Ch'rell was shown captive on the utrom space ship, so it was kinda anti-climactic when he crawled out of Shredder's body.
CyberCubed
06-30-2007, 10:42 AM
In Season 1 when Leo cut Shredder's head off and walked back up, I thought he was either an immortal human or a demon.
But when Season 2 started and they showed an evil Utrom, I was like...wha...is this the new Krang? Then once they showed Shredder in ancient Japan it became obvious he was an Utrom.
TheGreenMagic
06-30-2007, 11:23 AM
I too first thought Shredder was some kind of demon once he survived his decapitation (funny how that all worked out in the end).
The idea that Shredder was Utrom only came to me when I finally got to see Darkness on the Edge of Town on DVD (I sadly missed it when it first aired). The fact that Oroku Saki had his upper body taped up while sparring with some Foot ninjas stuck out to me.
Scandia
06-30-2007, 11:40 AM
I had been informed ahead of time that Shredder was an Utrom in the NT.
However, I did not know the exact details of how it was going to work out. I honestly thought that Ch'rell was going to take a human form- not just have an exosuit.
SimplerSimon
06-30-2007, 11:41 AM
I had it spoiled for me that Shredder was an utrom, might have been some bio off one of the video games that was released before the official reveal.
I think it was pretty much confirmed by the blatent hints sprinkled all through the first two parts of secret origins.
triplexxx
06-30-2007, 12:48 PM
I never actually suspected Shredder actually being the prisoner utrom Chrell until I actually saw it at the end of SO3, but in SS2 when he survived the water tower incident, that was enough to convince me he wasn't human. Had I watched the episodes in order, I might have figured it out beforehand.
VaughnMichael
06-30-2007, 01:19 PM
Shredder came out to me years ago but he asked me not to tell anyone so I kept a secret all these years.:lol:
Courk
06-30-2007, 01:36 PM
I'm only halfway through season 1, but I knew beforehand about Shredder. I'm not sure if my brother knows... I'll have to see his reaction.
So far I've not seen many signs of Shredder being an Utrom. What I have seen isn't very strong. The watertower thing isn't that big of a giveaway. I mean, as an actual human he survived being smashed by a garbage truck in movie 1. Having the bad guy survive when he should be dead isn't that unheard of. It's practically par for the course if it's a cartoon or soap opera.
It is a bit suspicious that he's there when Yoshi is killed. That's what? 15 years in the past? He already has quite a bit of power then, as evidenced by his posse. I don't think we ever see his face then, but in season 1 he doesn't look all that old to me. I'd guess 40 at the most, which would mean he would have been 25 when Yoshi was killed -- that's quite young for that kind of power. Something's not right there that's resolved with his being an Utrom. I doubt I would have picked up on that if I didn't know beforehand, though. Even if I had noticed, I probably would have counted it as a continuity error, or I would have figured Shredder did become powerful at an early age.
Back when the eps first came out, the scene with Saki's torso all bandaged made me come up with this wild idea the he could be an Utrom. After Leo decapitated him in "Return to New York" Part Three, and everyone else here thought he was a tengu, I started thinking that perhaps my ridiculous idea wasn't so ridiculous. Since he had never been shown anything magical in the show at that point, only sci-fi-like, I knew his body must be robotic. When it was posted here that his bio on the first Konami 2K3 game descriped him as an alien head, I was 99.9% sure he had to be an Utrom. I won't claim 100% certain of anything until it's proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. It saves me from the unpleasant feeling of being a liar. :)
The Terror of Death
06-30-2007, 06:28 PM
Why did you guys feel the bandages were a give away? In alot of cartoons they have martial art fighters wear bandages on their body. Or it could have just been a wound.
I dont know, maybe you guys are more keen on these things than I am.
Revan
06-30-2007, 09:13 PM
It caught me a little off gaurd if I remember correctly. I was not expecting that at all when 2k3 decided to go that way with his character. I really didn't put it together until secret origins when mortu tells the the turtles the turtles that shredder is an...
Still even then I had doubts but I had a hunch. It was one of those things were you think you have an idea of what could be happening but then something in your head says, "No way. That's rediculous"
I kind of thought maybe shredder could be a little pink brain but my head was telling me, No way that's silly. Shredder is saki. Saki is human. :ohwell:
ToTheNines
06-30-2007, 09:19 PM
Shredder came out to me years ago but he asked me not to tell anyone so I kept a secret all these years.:lol:
Were he and Krang having problems at the time?
VaughnMichael
06-30-2007, 09:30 PM
Were he and Krang having problems at the time?
lord finally I was starting to think no one on this site had a sence of humor.:|
And yeah Shredders a big old softy once you get to know him.
Zechs
07-01-2007, 12:23 AM
For me it was when he first held the Sword of Tengu without a glove in "Darkness on the Edge of Town". Everybody but him had to wear the glove when wielding it. I don't care how good a master Saki was, that was inhuman.
Further shown when Splinter a master wielded the sword in "Return to New York Part 2". Just didn't figure it out until the Ancient Shredder the Turtles battled.
Ninjinister
07-01-2007, 12:29 AM
They are not bandages, but instead the obi of the hakama. Thus, I didn't think anything strange about them at all.
I remember some people speculating that shredder was 2 dragons because thats who you faced on the GBA game or something like that.
For me it was when he first held the Sword of Tengu without a glove in "Darkness on the Edge of Town".
Oh, right. That also tipped me off that he wasn't human, but not necessarily that he was an Utrom. We were still debating at that point on whether or not the Utroms would be included in this incarnation.
They are not bandages, but instead the obi of the hakama. Thus, I didn't think anything strange about them at all.
I knew there was a higher significance for them as I've seen it elsewhere. I just didn't have a name for it. But, technically, aren't they still bandages? I mean, if I put a Band-Aid on an area with no abrasion or cut, does that make it no longer a Band-Aid?
SimplerSimon
07-01-2007, 12:57 PM
For me it was when he first held the Sword of Tengu without a glove in "Darkness on the Edge of Town". Everybody but him had to wear the glove when wielding it. I don't care how good a master Saki was, that was inhuman.
Good catch, I didn't notice that till now.
It is a bit suspicious that he's there when Yoshi is killed. That's what? 15 years in the past? He already has quite a bit of power then, as evidenced by his posse. I don't think we ever see his face then, but in season 1 he doesn't look all that old to me.
Yeah I figured it didn't matter, since Saki is typically present for Yoshi's death/humiliation in every incarnation. The bigger question I remember being raised was how Hun was already a shredder enforcer while the Casey Jones flashback showed him as a much younger punk.
The bigger question I remember being raised was how Hun was already a shredder enforcer while the Casey Jones flashback showed him as a much younger punk.
Hun looked to be a young adult when they offed Yoshi fifteen or more years before the start of the series. April claimed to be 23 in 2K3 (just like me... hehe), but I don't know how much older Casey is supposed to be than her. Obviously a significant amount as his dad's shop was burned down back before Hun helped off Yoshi (as he was younger in Casey's flashback, and lacked Splinter's contribution to his face IIRC).
Actually, I wonder how Hun's story ended. They could look it up in 2105, but I have a hunch that Garbageman eventually got revenge on his brother for being the lucky one who wasn't kept for experimentation then thrown out like 'garbage'. That's my guess.
The Terror of Death
07-01-2007, 04:08 PM
Actually, I wonder how Hun's story ended. They could look it up in 2105, but I have a hunch that Garbageman eventually got revenge on his brother for being the lucky one who wasn't kept for experimentation then thrown out like 'garbage'. That's my guess.
Sorry to dissapoint you but if you check out the episode of FF called the Journal you will now that Hun is alive in the present time. His story will probably end with Casey beating him up and sending him to jail once and for all. There really isnt anymore you can do with Hun. Hes just a crime boss who can be offed at any time the writers choose in just one episode. I would be suprised if he was big enough to be the villian for a two parter.
ToTheNines
07-01-2007, 04:39 PM
Dude, the journal was fake...
The Terror of Death
07-01-2007, 05:22 PM
Dude, the journal was fake...
Maybe you misunderstood me. I know the journal was fake. I am just saying that Hun is still in the present doing the same stuff he was doing in season four. Hes just an ordinary crime boss so hes not really an important character anymore.
odupianist
07-01-2007, 07:35 PM
Hun being in the present has nothing to do with how he ended. They could still look that up in 2105. Anyways, back on topic, the bandages in "Darkness.." and him holding the sword in "RtNY" were clues that something was up. The decapitating and "Secret Origins" were dead giveaways I thought.
The Terror of Death
07-01-2007, 08:42 PM
Hun being in the present has nothing to do with how he ended. They could still look that up in 2105.
FF is over. There will be no episode of the turtles looking up Huns fate. I was just saying that as a character he really cant go any further. He is not a major threat to the turtles.
Specifically, the moment I pegged Shredder as an Utrom was when the Utroms were first revealed in the show. Until then, I just knew that he couldn't be a normal human being.
Ninjinister
07-02-2007, 07:30 PM
I knew there was a higher significance for them as I've seen it elsewhere. I just didn't have a name for it. But, technically, aren't they still bandages? I mean, if I put a Band-Aid on an area with no abrasion or cut, does that make it no longer a Band-Aid?
Because it's not like gauze or anything. It's just a cloth wrapping.
Isn't that what an ace bandage is though?
ToTheNines
07-02-2007, 08:58 PM
Kinda like how the Rat King wears bandages? He isn't all cut up or anything, but they're still bandages...
Ninjinister
07-02-2007, 11:07 PM
Taking a second look at a screenshot, it appears that he may just be wearing a fuundoshi underneath his hakama.
http://www.ako-info.jp/sherry/kids/event/boat-fest/211-fundoshi-beach.jpg
If that image doesn't work, see the site here: http://www.ako-info.jp/sherry/kids/event/boat-fest/boat-fest-e.html and scroll to the point where you can see the canoes.
odupianist
07-03-2007, 06:53 AM
wow, that was a great thing to see at 9 in the morning </sarcasm>
Stephen
07-03-2007, 09:59 AM
At what point did you first think Shredder might be an utrom?
Secret Origins Part 2 ..... But then again, that was the first episode I actually watched. I wasn't going to get into TMNT again, but downloading a few episodes of S2 changed my mind.
ToTheNines
07-03-2007, 10:32 AM
Taking a second look at a screenshot, it appears that he may just be wearing a fuundoshi underneath his hakama.
http://www.ako-info.jp/sherry/kids/event/boat-fest/211-fundoshi-beach.jpg
If that image doesn't work, see the site here: http://www.ako-info.jp/sherry/kids/event/boat-fest/boat-fest-e.html and scroll to the point where you can see the canoes.
EEEEEEWWWWW EEEEEEEWWEWWWW:o
The Terror of Death
07-03-2007, 02:23 PM
Kinda like how the Rat King wears bandages? He isn't all cut up or anything, but they're still bandages...
I think he might have flesh wounds because their would be no reason for him to wear bandages. And we have only seen a few quick flashbacks to what he has been through from Bishops Gambit to I, Monster. That was a long period of time.
ToTheNines
07-03-2007, 05:16 PM
What about OT Ratking?
Revan
07-03-2007, 05:36 PM
Kinda like how the Rat King wears bandages? He isn't all cut up or anything, but they're still bandages...
The 2k3 "Rat King" needs his bandages. He is definately cut up. Missing parts of his mouth and eye sockets.
The OT Rat King only wears a few bandages. One on his forehead (Which is not significant since ninja's wear banadans on their foreheads). One across his nose. And a few across his body. Really he only has one bandage and that is covering his nose. Either his nose is gross and cut off or something, or he is just wearing the bandage to block out the smell of the sewers or something.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/ZakNeutrino/vlcsnap-440165.png
I think it'ss either the smell thing or the fact that he's just a nut. He's willingly living with rats for no apparent reason, for Laird's sake! :P
odupianist
07-03-2007, 07:22 PM
Maybe he used to be a painter in teh old toon and wanted to be like his favorite painter Van Gogh...?
Ninjinister
07-03-2007, 09:53 PM
I always thought instead of bandages, Rat King just wore rags.
ToTheNines
07-03-2007, 09:54 PM
Maybe he used to be a painter in teh old toon and wanted to be like his favorite painter Van Gogh...?
Lol, yea I remember he was always talkin about art and what-not:D
kerfootw
07-04-2007, 08:32 AM
In Season 1 when Leo cut Shredder's head off and walked back up, I thought he was either an immortal human or a demon.
But when Season 2 started and they showed an evil Utrom, I was like...wha...is this the new Krang? Then once they showed Shredder in ancient Japan it became obvious he was an Utrom.
Me too (except for the last sentence).
odupianist
07-05-2007, 09:52 AM
Why would the Rat King where rags on his face though in the OT?
Homeless people have a tendency to wear rags? :P
Revan
07-05-2007, 01:44 PM
Why would the Rat King where rags on his face though in the OT?
It makes him look scarier perhaps.
Why would shredder wear a helmet and a cape?
Why would April wear the same thing everyday?
Why would many things in the OT be that way? Because it's a comedic cartoon.
Scandia
07-05-2007, 01:49 PM
For the same reason some people wear a black pirate-style eyepatch rather than a more discrete eye bandage or patch for protection if they have an eye injury- to look BADASS!
odupianist
07-05-2007, 03:26 PM
Why would shredder wear a helmet and a cape?
So people don't try to get piggy back rides from him.
Why would April wear the same thing everyday?
Cause she is like Doug from the Nickelodeon show :P
Homeless people have a tendency to wear rags?
Racist. hahah
Revan
07-06-2007, 06:54 PM
What does race have anything to do with homelessness... Oooo who is the racist now!:lol:
odupianist
07-09-2007, 12:07 PM
I didn't specify a race so :P
cMac44111
07-09-2007, 10:17 PM
At what point did you first think Shredder might be an utrom?
I was a little slow at getting it, so i'd say it was probably around Secret Origins. I just finished watching that episode now i got a question. How did Ch'rell survive the Utrom bomb at the end of the episode? Wouldn't he have gotten vaporized?
Spitfire
07-10-2007, 12:21 AM
I was a little slow at getting it, so i'd say it was probably around Secret Origins. I just finished watching that episode now i got a question. How did Ch'rell survive the Utrom bomb at the end of the episode? Wouldn't he have gotten vaporized?
I asked myself that many times. I came to the conclusion that when he is seen in the tube with all the worms around him that he is being remade out of worms like in the comic book.
Could be wrong but that's my guess.
Revan
07-10-2007, 01:15 AM
^ That's exactly what I thought. They didn't even bother to explain it but the worms were there and I just automatically put it together.
odupianist
07-10-2007, 08:44 AM
I think the Mirage comic fans were supposed to get it. Everyone else was just left to be confused lol
ToTheNines
07-10-2007, 09:19 AM
I got the worms part, but don't you need some body parts to rebuild the person? I got the impression that he was totally gone:dead:
That's the power of fiction. Plus, it can always be said that he hopped back into his *cough*conveniently-shielded*cough* exo-suit. :)
triplexxx
07-10-2007, 10:48 AM
I got the worms part, but don't you need some body parts to rebuild the person? I got the impression that he was totally gone:dead:
Heh, well thankfully for him, he ain't got no "body parts". But yeah, that implosion should've vaporized him; he should've been gone that time.
That's the power of fiction. Plus, it can always be said that he hopped back into his *cough*conveniently-shielded*cough* exo-suit.
Except that he was a good distance from it with 1 second left; then again, he moved pretty fast for an Utrom.
Spitfire
07-10-2007, 02:00 PM
I got the worms part, but don't you need some body parts to rebuild the person? I got the impression that he was totally gone:dead:
They had the dead clones. Which how they were made baffles me because he's a utrom and all...
PipingPringle
07-10-2007, 02:07 PM
They had the dead clones. Which how they were made baffles me because he's a utrom and all...
I never even thought of that before!
odupianist
07-10-2007, 02:32 PM
I wondered that too about the clones. Maybe that's how they kept me confused on Saki being an Utrom. Maybe they used tissue from the exosuit? We really don't know they're clones of Shredder though. Just dressed up like our sharp villian. So who knows what they look like underneath the mask.
That's the power of fiction. Plus, it can always be said that he hopped back into his *cough*conveniently-shielded*cough* exo-suit
What was it Mikey said in "Reflections"? Something about that bad guys never die?
Revan
07-10-2007, 03:57 PM
They had the dead clones. Which how they were made baffles me because he's a utrom and all...
I don't think they were actually clones. Don just suggested that they were. They could not have actually been. They were probably just genetically manipulated monsters wearing shredder armour.
Spitfire
07-10-2007, 04:05 PM
Well in the comic they are rejects of the worm experiment the Foot used to bring Shredder back. There's tons of differences between the toon and the comic version though so who knows.
ToTheNines
07-10-2007, 04:27 PM
I think Donnies exact words were "My guess is that they're genetically engineered clones of The Shredder"... So my guess is that Donatello was wrong.
I guess so. There was never any other reason to believe they were clones other than the armor and how Playmates labled the figures. It was a classic misdirection tactic as far as I could tell. I didn't necessarily think they couldn't, but I was very skeptical.
My guess: they actually were The Foot's failed attempts at cloning The Shredder. Since Ch'rell was into genetic experimentation, perhaps he swiped a strand of The Demon Shredders rotting hair, thinking the power was in his DNA (though the sequences were all deteriorating, so he had to fill in the gaps with that of his subterranean genetic abominations which were also an abandoned project) back when he made the deal with The Ninja Tribunal to trap The Shredder's Heralds (which isn't officially the way things happened, but just another neat idea/crazy theory of mine). But, my crazy theories fit together quite nicely, don't they? ^_^ I just gave new significance to Ch'rell, The Ninja Tribunal, the underground creatures, and the Shredder-clones. Who's next? :thyper:
SassyGal
07-10-2007, 11:14 PM
I guess so. There was never any other reason to believe they were clones other than the armor and how Playmates labled the figures. It was a classic misdirection tactic as far as I could tell. I didn't necessarily think they couldn't, but I was very skeptical.
My guess: they actually were The Foot's failed attempts at cloning The Shredder. Since Ch'rell was into genetic experimentation, perhaps he swiped a strand of The Demon Shredders rotting hair, thinking the power was in his DNA (though the sequences were all deteriorating, so he had to fill in the gaps with that of his subterranean genetic abominations which were also an abandoned project) back when he made the deal with The Ninja Tribunal to trap The Shredder's Heralds (which isn't officially the way things happened, but just another neat idea/crazy theory of mine). But, my crazy theories fit together quite nicely, don't they? ^_^ I just gave new significance to Ch'rell, The Ninja Tribunal, the underground creatures, and the Shredder-clones. Who's next? :thyper:
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, I was really slow picking up the whole Shredder is an Utrom. In all fairness, I used to work every other Saturday which was the only time it was on where I live & I always missed the relevant episodes. I pretty much figured it out just before they revealed it. At first I was like what?? No!!! Then the light bulb went off (finally :lol: ) and everything made sense.
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.