Newer interview with Murph

[TristanHuwJones]

I'm surprised no-one else has made mention of this. Looks like bad news for those holding out on the Forever War :dead:

check it out (http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/07/yeah-another-interview.html).

[Roseangelo]

Yeah, I saw that just a little bit ago. Still catching up on all the after-work stuff, though.

The Forever War news is extremely disheartening.

And there's a lot of little things in this interview and yesterday's that just pizzas me off (not at Murphy, though).

[TristanHuwJones]

Still, as Murphy said (or Jim Morrison, quoted by Murphy) "the future's uncertain..."

[Roseangelo]

Still, as Murphy said (or Jim Morrison, quoted by Murphy) "the future's uncertain..."

Well, that's part of what pizzas me off. It shouldn't be as uncertain as it is.

[Janus Prospero]

Aww, I'm sorry guys. I know a lot of you were looking forward to the conclusion of the Archie series. :ohwell:

Absolutely. We should know this Friday (July 13) whether or not Imagi (animation studio) and Warner Brothers/Weinstein Group (distribution) plan on going forward with a sequel.
It's nice that we have an actual date for this.

I’m very excited about one particular thing that is centered on the 25th anniversary but it would be premature of me to talk about it now as it is not yet set in stone.
Hmmm...the plot thickens.

[Spitfire]

Good going Laird, **** tease Archie fans for the past 4 years about a story arc that was promised to us and they can it.

You know I used to think maybe him disliking the Archie series was just a rumor but this pretty much confirms it. Guess it hits him hard that someone made a better comic series out of his characters then he is capable of.

Also I love how Playmates gets to have a say in the new direction of the show. How stupid do you have to be to allow a TOY company say in what the actual series is like?

[gobo]

Such bile! :o

I'm guessing it's not that they're relinquishing command to Playmates, but it would seem rather stupid to not at least entertain their suggestions. Surely not all of them will be jokes. Hopefully (but highly unlikely), none of them will. :)

[Andrew NDB]

Great interview by CJJ, hit all the big ones. Nice work, man!

[Roseangelo]

Well, from what I understand it was Playmates who pushed for the abrupt end to Fast Forward. I think their input into the series is probably just, "Make a show that actually allows us to make action figures that sell!"

[Andrew NDB]

Well, from what I understand it was Playmates who pushed for the abrupt end to Fast Forward. I think their input into the series is probably just, "Make a show that actually allows us to make action figures that sell!"

Would make sense to me. We know the FF figures kind of bombed, movie figures sold well... logic dictates, "Yo, guys... make the cartoon more like the movie!"

[MrPliggins]

Good going Laird, **** tease Archie fans for the past 4 years about a story arc that was promised to us and they can it.

You know I used to think maybe him disliking the Archie series was just a rumor but this pretty much confirms it. Guess it hits him hard that someone made a better comic series out of his characters then he is capable of.

Also I love how Playmates gets to have a say in the new direction of the show. How stupid do you have to be to allow a TOY company say in what the actual series is like?

I don't think this confirms anything as it's now set as unlikely but not impossible. It sure doesn't mean he didn't like the series. He did do a number of covers for them. It seems he's just trying to take a little break now and we should cut him some slack instead of speculating his views.

Playmates has put tons of money into the franchise since (near) the beginning. Of course they're going to want some say. There is more than just Laird paying for this stuff, after all.

[Roseangelo]

I don't think this confirms anything as it's now set as unlikely but not impossible. It sure doesn't mean he didn't like the series. He did do a number of covers for them. It seems he's just trying to take a little break now and we should cut him some slack instead of speculating his views.

I half agree with this. The thing is that other comments from Murphy have made it seem quite clear that Peter does not, in fact, like the Archie series. I don't get it either because he contributed both cover art and new characters to the series. Peter can feel free to prove us all wrong on this, though.

But I don't think it is Peter's apparent dislike for the series that is endangering the publication of The Forever War. Both of these interviews make mention of just how small and unorganized the publishing division of Mirage is (TWO people, neither of which are working full-time in publishing) and I can't help but think it's a simple lack of manpower that's keeping this from seeing the light of day. It sounds like Peter refuses to hire new staff and without the staff to put the books together the future is likely to continue to look murky. So in this sense it is Peter's fault, just not for the reason Spitfire states.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Personally, I don't care much about the Forever War.

What I am excited for:

The mystery project for the 25th Anniversary
Sequel News by Friday
The Mikey(and hopefully Don) Miniseries
and one more TMNT/Cowboys of Moo mesa team up

[OldSchooler]

Good going Laird, **** tease Archie fans for the past 4 years about a story arc that was promised to us and they can it.

You know I used to think maybe him disliking the Archie series was just a rumor but this pretty much confirms it. Guess it hits him hard that someone made a better comic series out of his characters then he is capable of.

Also I love how Playmates gets to have a say in the new direction of the show. How stupid do you have to be to allow a TOY company say in what the actual series is like?

That really wasn't necessary, was it? I don't recall anything being confirmed either way, it just looks unlikely. I recall a fourth movie looking pretty unlikely, and the Lost Season ever airing being unlikely.

The Archie comics being better is purely subjective to an individual point of view. It seems to hit you harder than it should. I'll bet a lot of people here were looking forward to it more than you were, but ultimately, it's just a comic book. Look at all the comics and T.V. shows that have come to sudden ends without ever continuing. Then again, there are always the ones that somewhere down the track, come back again. And how do you know what he's capable of? His story is still going and it's not as though you have some kind of capability gauge on Laird or likely that you know him personally well enough to judge that!

And on your final point, read what Dan Berger had to say on the matter of toys and T.V. shows.

http://danberger.biz/columns/toystory.html

[MrPliggins]

I half agree with this. The thing is that other comments from Murphy have made it seem quite clear that Peter does not, in fact, like the Archie series. I don't get it either because he contributed both cover art and new characters to the series. Peter can feel free to prove us all wrong on this, though.

But I don't think it is Peter's apparent dislike for the series that is endangering the publication of The Forever War. Both of these interviews make mention of just how small and unorganized the publishing division of Mirage is (TWO people, neither of which are working full-time in publishing) and I can't help but think it's a simple lack of manpower that's keeping this from seeing the light of day. It sounds like Peter refuses to hire new staff and without the staff to put the books together the future is likely to continue to look murky. So in this sense it is Peter's fault, just not for the reason Spitfire states.

I wasn't aware there was other proof of Laird's dislike. It seems a little odd to me, but of course he probably feels about it similar to how he feels about the old cartoons. Doesn't have anything against them, but doesn't care to see them continue.

I was trying to get the point across that you got across in your second paragraph. I think the disorganization is more to blame and not Laird. But to be honest, to me, it won't be a big thing if these don't get made...only because I haven't read the archie comics since they came out, and don't remember them well. Though if it did come, I'd definitely pick it up..

[Raph'N'Roll]

That was an interesting interview, I'm not really concerned about the Forever War too much, although I'd much prefare that than those Cowboys, they would have fit far better into the old toon than a Mirage comic.
I just hope the news about the movie sequel is good news.

[VaughnMichael]

*Walks out of thread seriously shaking his head*

[Andrew NDB]

The verdict on the sequel will be made... on Friday the 13th, kids! :D

http://www.stahss.com/finalgirl/hodderjason.jpg

No sequel!

Seriously, there's good leeway to be positive about. Though strange as it was that no decision was reached following the Licensing Show, it's stranger still that the verdict will be reached still before any DVD sales are tabulated.

[Janus Prospero]

The verdict on the sequel will be made... on Friday the 13th, kids! :D

http://www.stahss.com/finalgirl/hodderjason.jpg

No sequel!

LMAO! :lol:

Seriously, there's good leeway to be positive about. Though strange as it was that no decision was reached following the Licensing Show, it's stranger still that the verdict will be reached still before any DVD sales are tabulated.
Wow...it's nice to see you optimistic about something. I think...I think it's a good thing. ;)

I'm not surprised that a decision wasn't made at the Licensing Show, as I really think Murphy meant that discussion of a sequel wasn't going to occur until after the show. I think your point about the DVD release is a good one that we should consider. While I don't think it's too early to give a green light to a sequel, I seriously doubt they'll outright say, "NO!" this Friday. Because then if DVD sales do amazingly well, they'll hate themselves. So, if the answer this Friday isn't a "Yes" then I think it'll either be a "Maybe" or a "The time isn't right, but we'll consider it in the future."

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Even after the decision is announced on Friday regarding a sequel, it could be changed. I wouldn't worry about it too much. We're gonna get what we get.

Rose-- can you send me a link to *your* blogspot if it's not too much trouble?

[Spitfire]

*Walks out of thread seriously shaking his head*

Yeah I should have done the same. I can't say a single thing that's anti-Laird without his worshipers jumping all over me like fleas.

[Roseangelo]

Yeah I should have done the same. I can't say a single thing that's anti-Laird without his worshipers jumping all over me like fleas.

No, you should be speaking out against stuff that Peter does that you don't like. I really feel it's important for us to do this, because Peter is doing nothing to help this franchise and when it falls into the toilet in 3 years I can at least point back to the past and say, "Told you so." So long as he maintains his, "I'll do what I want and if you don't like it don't buy it" mentality, which only delivers us crap, we're screwed.

There are A LOT of fans who are not active on the messages boards who are absolutely LIVID with Peter's actions (and in-actions). You are not alone in how you feel. I can only suggest a little tact in your posts when referring to him directly. Personal attacks just aren't helpful. I keep all of my comments about what I think of Peter as a person limited to email (and boy have there been a lot of those in the last 24 hours), but I'm more than willing to call his business and creative decisions (or lack-of) as I see them out for the public to read, and even then I usually just limit myself to saying "stupid" and "crap."

[Spitfire]

Yeah I know I tend to fly off the handle sometimes. Like I told Gobo in a PM sometimes I tend to let my personal problems out here since I don't have to be myself.

I can get pissed off at Laird instead of pissed off at the people I have to see face to face everyday. It's a good way to get anger out but it's unpleasant for others so I'm sorry about that.

[Andrew NDB]

Even after the decision is announced on Friday regarding a sequel, it could be changed.

I think a lot of fans won't take "No" for an answer on the sequel, no matter what happens on Friday or a year from now. And that's OK.

Sure is lame about the "Forever War," though -- to have and read it today would give all those years in my childhood reading the Archies a good sense of closure. The way Murphy words his answer in the interview, though, doesn't necessarily slam the door on it or say "It's not going to happen"... but he's a guy that would know what's going on with it and that sure doesn't sound good.

[VaughnMichael]

Yeah I know I tend to fly off the handle sometimes. Like I told Gobo in a PM sometimes I tend to let my personal problems out here since I don't have to be myself.

I can get pissed off at Laird instead of pissed off at the people I have to see face to face everyday. It's a good way to get anger out but it's unpleasant for others so I'm sorry about that.
Also tends to make the other who agree with you look bad ;)
With that said ok wanna know what I think?

OH AND BTW BEFORE ANY OF YOU READ THIS i'M NOT LOOKING TO START ARGUMENTS JUST POSTING MY REAL THOUGHTS OUTLOUD.
SO CONSIDER THAT BEFORE YOU GO ON SOME TANGENT ABOUT ME OR WHAT I THINK BECAUSE IT'S STRICTLY WHAT I THINK NOT YOU.

Topic: Peter Laird & Mirage
Yeah he's a friggin moron in my honest opinion yet oddly enough I still respect him.
But hire some more people for the love of God!
I mean Peter Laird can't and I mean can't be a poor man so poor that he can't just hire more people.
Stop trying to be so damn humble and small branch out.
Stop being so tight and close minded about your past it's really not that bad and you've made tuns of fans from it some who would never have known about TMNT any other way.
You can sell old school T-shirts, etc., so what the friggin hell is wrong with other things.
I mean do these people really have no business sense whatsoever?
I have no doubts in my mind about what Murphy's doing for the anniversary I'm sure it will be great he cares just about as much as allot of us do about the tmnt's past it would seem.
Dan's moving over to editor of tales of tmnt comes as no surprise to me he's a very intelligent, kind man, who's always helpful, and knows when he's wrong and right.
Some times it's best to switch things up a bit and let others have a turn at things I think this is seriously something Peter should take to heart.
I'd also say he should seriously interact with the fans more often listen to them, hear their ideas, I'm really sure so he wouldn't have so many bitter fans if he took the time to listen instead of telling them if they don't like this here comic he's a doin' to get out!
I know allot of people at Mirage dislike how many of us on this site speculate things to no end but perhaps people wouldn't have to do such things in this crazy world today if Mirage was a little more open with it's fans about what exactly is going on. I'm not talking about things like why did Kevin Eastman really leave even though tuns of fans would kill to know this. I'm speaking more along the lines of let fans know what's going on with the comics, toys, and other merch on the official website the one place we should be getting all the news from.
Peter Laird also really should start a blog up I'm sure he would gets tuns of encouragement to get things started back up if he's feeling so down or with a clouded mind that he can't continue.
I really don't know what else to say about all of this besides Mirage really needs to get it's act together there's gonna be no show at the theater for any of us metaphorically speaking of course.

Topic: The Comics
I really don't have a problem with Volume 4 but man seriously pull yourself together and finish it if you don't want to then seriously let Jim Lawson do it I mean really the 2 of them are so close and all he's also a much better writer in my opinion than anything else.
Tales of TMNT is wonderful for the most part it would be wise to make it a nationally published comic I think personally it should be in color but I really don't mind the black and white comics but it's a comic that comes out relatively on time and is easy to pick up on and it's not always to be continued it is by far the best idea for something like this.
The Forever War which seems like it's been forever half the fans would murder to have this the other half who aren't TMNT obsessed couldn't care less personally I like when things have closure so please end the Archie series the way it was intended to end in the first place Fast Forward can have an ending why can't the amazing Archie comics series?

Topic: Action Figures & Merch
Make Modern style figures of old, mirage, and new Toon things as well integrate them into one toy line like an ultimate TMNT or something it would honestly be the best idea.
And know that I know that Peter owns everything from his own mouth I feel that he's just being really stupid about this all and making horrid business decisions.
I don't see the reason that the figure sales have been poor is because of the TV shows it's because Playmates standard of figure design, sculpts, articulation, & Package design have gone to the crapper.
They keep wanting to change the show all of the time because they think that it will help the sales of the toys have they ever once stopped to think that it's the toys themselves that are poorly done and not the show.
I mean honestly look back at all the products they made from 1989-1997 Playmates TMNT action figure line still till this day holds up above anything they're bringing out now and sorry movie fans I still think the toys need a better design than those flat non-detail CGI characters.
They also need to not accommodate to the bland box design styles of current action figures the thing that always made TMNT figures stand out above anything to me is the fact that each character had his or her own box art this really needs to come back into focus here as it plays a large part in the sales of these toys regardless of what Peter thinks about it giving false ideas about a figure to me it only enhances the toys chances of being sold rather than some generic card art we've seen on 50 other tmnt products.
I'd also like them to stop using the same stock art for just about every single product in my eyes as a graphic designer it makes the company look lazy and cheap.
Also The toys related to characters on the show really need to come on in a time period of which the character is currently on the show not like a year before and a not a year later if you really want not so well know characters to sell well that's just common sense.
Also I wouldn't jump all about over the movie figures selling well they simply sold well because they where movie figures and movie figures usually do sell well in fact I seem to remember the original movie figures selling out allot quicker than these new ones even did.
Also it may have taken them a little while to sell But I can't find a single Fast Forward figure in stores yet in some places I can still find some 2k3 characters or turtle variants laying around so what does that tell you.
The T-shirts even the Mirage ones all feature such silly saying that's it keeps me from buying them I really want to own Mirage styled shirts but I don't want them to say dumb things such as "You da ninja" or "Don knows Bo" or things like that I don't mind when it comes to the old Toon merch because that world for the most part is silly. The best Mirage T-shirts I've ever seen where ones that came out in early 2000 that featured all of the TMNT in red bandannas, and original shredder art I'd really like to see more things like that.
Also I don't think they should be afraid to use older characters on the Retro T-shirts just because Peter doesn't consider the characters cannon doesn't mean he shouldn't allow merch of them to be made.
I'd kill for a Krang, bebop, rocksteady, foot soldier, or any other old school tmnt character shirt.

[VaughnMichael]

Topic: The Cartoon
You know I once wrote a letter to Volume 4 I believe it's in the issue they burn Splinters body anyway I told Peter that this new show is the way the TMNT cartoon should have always been and he agreed of course while I still partially agree with my statement I sort of also take it back at this point in the shows history.
I mean really looking over all of my Mirage comics and comparing them to the episodes one can really become disheartened or let down by the watering down of these story's.
I know that it's hard to translate allot of what's in the comics to the animated series but I don't understand how a show like take for example the power puff girls can have blood & villains being directly hit on the head and having their limbs broken while a more teen-centric show such as TMNT 2k3 couldn't have this it sort of just baffles my mind. Don't get me wrong that's not all I care about mass gobs of blood everywhere I'm very much one for well written shows. Which now brings me to another point I know they like to have Michaelangelo always be the goofy turtle well honestly and I'm sure allot can agree with me he int he new Toon up until Fast Forward was just not funny at all honestly he was more annoying than anything.
I'd much rather see Peter Lairds well written Michaelangelo or the image comics version of how he acted any day over this clown.
And also up until Fast Forward again most of the episode where very Leo centric I don't know about anyone else but I'm watching the TMNT because they are a team not the Leonardo and the mutants show.
I really think that when the new show starts up again that they really need to continue with having them feel very much like a family again like they started out as when 2k3 first started they sort of lost that when it became the Leo & Karai show.
This also brings me to another thing that's really starting to get on my nerves is the fact that it seems any time they think the show is doing poorly they change it at the drop of a hat.
While Fast Forward was horrid at first and at this point is redeeming it's self as part of the tmnt universe I'd rather it not have happened at all to me it halted the franchise, the toy line, and a heck of allot of other things in general related to tmnt. Which is hard for me to say being a fan of these new adventures which really are a breath of fresh air to me considering none of the episodes where adapted from the comics.
While that's cool and all like I said before I'd much rather have it done correctly or just have them come up with all new tales for the characters to life through.
Which now brings me to the Lost Season allot of that was amazing and I really hope all of this business with Fast Forward has taught 4kids a lesson about rushing into things and being more patient with the only thing keeping their heads above water these days.
I also find it very moronic that we've yet to see any sign of these episodes coming to dvd when they damn well know what a cash cow these episodes coming to dvd could be.
I really hope this next venture of the series is full of new adventures, new characters, even some old ones from mirage and maybe other TMNT worlds, I really hope for the animation style to leave the blocky Jim lawsonish looking Fast Forward look back to how 2k3 first started or something even better that we haven't thought of yet, let me just state now though even with how amazing the CGI was in the movie which is hard for me to admit because as traditional makeup artist I hate CGI but seriously do not make the show based on the CGI movie it's seriously like the worst idea that could come about, as you saw the rating of FF went up because the movie was out did anyone stop to think maybe for a second that allot of people didn't even know that there was a new show on TV and I can tell you for a fact allot of the general public had no idea.
I'd say anything as big as the movie couldn't even be shrunk down to the small screen and work the same way. People watched Fast Forward and gave it good rating because they saw the movie heard there was a TV show on and watched it. It could have been anything and they would have done the same it's a shame it wasn't normal 2k3 though I'm sure seeing TMNT in a future land left allot of people scratching their heads.

[Andrew NDB]

My take on things is pretty simple -- it's his boat. If he wants to sink it to the bottom of the sea, that's his call.

It may suck, we may hate it (and may hate it even more if we're sitting at the docks watching the boat go down), but unless you want to make it one of those ridiculous "The creators owe us because we bought their product!" arguments he doesn't owe us anything and it's his prerogative.

[VaughnMichael]

My take on things is pretty simple -- it's his boat. If he wants to sink it to the bottom of the sea, that's his call.

It may suck, we may hate it (and may hate it even more if we're sitting at the docks watching the boat go down), but unless you want to make it one of those ridiculous "The creators owe us because we bought their product!" arguments he doesn't owe us anything and it's his prerogative.
That's not why I said what I said at all...I said what I said because I can and it's my opinion and how I feel and I'm stickin' to it until things change or I see progress made.
And both of those saying are really honestly stupid because in that way of thinking ok then we owe Peter and Mirage nothing for entertaining us for years so we should all just stop dead in our tracks act like them, tell them to go F themselves if they don't like what we're doing and now we can stop supporting something we all love and care about. How does that one sound to you Andrew?
Sounds like thinking in that sort of logic doesn't really work for me. I'd much rather keeping helping in any little or large way that I can with the property be it buying their merch, comics or even helping Dan out over at the website with info or anything else.
Neither one of us the Fans and the Staff owe nothing to each other but if it wasn't for either one neither would exist.
It is his products and he can choose to do what he likes but that doesn't mean he shouldn't at least hear people out who may in fact have some good ideas. It wouldn't kill him or his precious cannon to do different things every once in a while.
He really is just way to hesitant with allot of things and it really is holding the turtles as a property back not the turtles something he owns I'm talking turtles in general something allot of people own at this point including playmates. Not everything I said was aimed so much at him as it was the entire crew in charge of the sinking ship as you put it.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

That's not why I said what I said at all...I said what I said because I can and it's my opinion and how I feel and I'm stickin' to it until things change or I see progress made.
It is his products and he can choose to do what he likes but that doesn't mean he shouldn't at least hear people out who may in fact have some good ideas. It wouldn't kill him or his precious cannon to do different things every once in a while.
He really is just way to hesitant with allot of things and it really is holding the turtles as a property back not the turtles something he owns I'm talking turtles in general something allot of people own at this point including playmates. Not everything I said was aimed so much at him as it was the entire crew in charge of the sinking ship as you put it.

The thing you gotta understand is, he doesn't have to hear you out, he shouldn't have to hear you out, and I doubt he even wants to hear you out.

I doubt he wants TMNT to get huge again, the last time it happed he lost control and **** like Venus DeMilo came out of it.

The way I see it, Mirage can go belly up at any time. I say stop wasting you're breath complaning about stuff that's not gonna change, and stop making suggestions that go on def ears, and enjoy it while it lasts.

[VaughnMichael]

The thing you gotta understand is, he doesn't have to hear you out, he shouldn't have to hear you out, and I doubt he even wants to hear you out.

I doubt he wants TMNT to get huge again, the last time it happed he lost control and **** like Venus DeMilo came out of it.

The way I see it, Mirage can go belly up at any time. I say stop wasting you're breath complaning about stuff that's not gonna change, and stop making suggestions that go on def ears, and enjoy it while it lasts.

Yeah like I'm sure you of all people even looked at anything I said I have allot of very good points.
And while Peter may not agree with allot what I have to say he infact actully does agree with some of it but sadly it's out of his controll.
And he also wasn't out of controll when Venus happend it was an idea that was run across both he and Kevin Eastman and they ok'd it.
Like I said in the above post if any of you would read what I wrote I'm not looking for arguments especially from people who on come on to just defend some one else without even thinking about what the other person has to say or why maybe they are saying it.
I'm quite fine with allot of what goes on and am voicing my opinions on what I say isn't doing so well or is wrong.
It's a damn message board and I'm not waisting a breathing seeing as I'm typing with my hands and not my mouth.
And actully I've made plenty of helpfull suggestions over the years and they have come out just fine thanks to people like Dan Berger.
Oh and you know what I wish people like you would stop speaking for Peter it's not really like you are him and know what he thinks.
I mean really want me to send everything I have to say to him cause I'm not some child I know how to speak my mind, concerns & ideas to the man.
Many People within Mirage post things no one cares about yet they shove it down their readers throats every month I'm not one of these people because hey whatever Peter wants to post about his ridding a new toy of his more power to him. Murphy wants to post about what an idiot he thinks our President is sure thing go for it.
But hey when we have an opinion that goes against the grain we're the biggest jerks and worst fans ever no it's called being concerned and wanting the best for something you love and care about.
I know a teenager wouldn't understand something like this because when I was one my mother would always tell me things and I wouldn't listen because I thought she was just being a jerk when all she had in mind was my best intrest at heart much like those of us who voice our concerns and opinion on the state of things.
And it's not like I don't post when something is really awsome or cool or give my opinions on great things they do or have done.
I believe in posting both side of the thought coin in anything I do I always look for high points in low points because when it comes to things like this there really hardly ever is any middle ground.
So don't you dare ever tell some one they can't do something.
I mean at least there are those of us out there who care enough to offer our time to want to help them and you know they apricate it very much reguardless of what you may think.
At least we care I mean it seems like you could give a crap less if the turtles even where around at all? If this is the case why are you even here?
And you know if it's anything I've learned from growing up with the turtles it's honor, respect, when to know somethings not right, how to speak your mind, and not to feel bad for being differnt.
I mean you can hate on me all you want because I speak my mind but just because you want me to stop doesn't mean I'm going to maybe the best thing for you to do is either ignore what I post or put me on ignore.
Edit: and you know what else I was being nice and constructive not destructive theres allot worse posts than mine I love how I always get the brunt of the attack from people every single time.

[OldSchooler]

Yeah I should have done the same. I can't say a single thing that's anti-Laird without his worshipers jumping all over me like fleas.

Dude, I was the only one that had a go at what you said, and that was because what you said was so insanely misinformed and just about totally comprised of assumption. The fact is, you don't know Laird personally, and Laird himself hasn't said ANYTHING about any of the topics mentioned for you to attack him about it.

And using Peter as an outlet for your own frustrations is one of the most useless things I've ever heard of. It's like the dad that hates his job so he comes home and takes it out on his wife and kids. It's just not fair in any respect.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Yeah like I'm sure you of all people even looked at anything I said I have allot of very good points.
And while Peter may not agree with allot what I have to say he infact actully does agree with some of it but sadly it's out of his controll.
And he also wasn't out of controll when Venus happend it was an idea that was run across both he and Kevin Eastman and they ok'd it.
Like I said in the above post if any of you would read what I wrote I'm not looking for arguments especially from people who on come on to just defend some one else without even thinking about what the other person has to say or why maybe they are saying it.
I'm quite fine with allot of what goes on and am voicing my opinions on what I say isn't doing so well or is wrong.
It's a damn message board and I'm not waisting a breathing seeing as I'm typing with my hands and not my mouth.
And actully I've made plenty of helpfull suggestions over the years and they have come out just fine thanks to people like Dan Berger.
Oh and you know what I wish people like you would stop speaking for Peter it's not really like you are him and know what he thinks.
I mean really want me to send everything I have to say to him cause I'm not some child I know how to speak my mind, concerns & ideas to the man.
Many People within Mirage post things no one cares about yet they shove it down their readers throats every month I'm not one of these people because hey whatever Peter wants to post about his ridding a new toy of his more power to him. Murphy wants to post about what an idiot he thinks our President is sure thing go for it.
But hey when we have an opinion that goes against the grain we're the biggest jerks and worst fans ever no it's called being concerned and wanting the best for something you love and care about.
I know a teenager wouldn't understand something like this because when I was one my mother would always tell me things and I wouldn't listen because I thought she was just being a jerk when all she had in mind was my best intrest at heart much like those of us who voice our concerns and opinion on the state of things.
And it's not like I don't post when something is really awsome or cool or give my opinions on great things they do or have done.
I believe in posting both side of the thought coin in anything I do I always look for high points in low points because when it comes to things like this there really hardly ever is any middle ground.
So don't you dare ever tell some one they can't do something.
I mean at least there are those of us out there who care enough to offer our time to want to help them and you know they apricate it very much reguardless of what you may think.
At least we care I mean it seems like you could give a crap less if the turtles even where around at all? If this is the case why are you even here?
And you know if it's anything I've learned from growing up with the turtles it's honor, respect, when to know somethings not right, how to speak your mind, and not to feel bad for being differnt.
I mean you can hate on me all you want because I speak my mind but just because you want me to stop doesn't mean I'm going to maybe the best thing for you to do is either ignore what I post or put me on ignore.
Edit: and you know what else I was being nice and constructive not destructive theres allot worse posts than mine I love how I always get the brunt of the attack from people every single time.

Curious, did you're fingers explode after typing all that?

And who says I hate you? I don't hate people I've never met(ecept Paris Hilton, Jack Thompson, and Carlos Mencia). You just annoy me sometimes, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

[Andrew NDB]

I can appreciate people blowing up at Laird -- as even his compatriots have publically done so, Mirage collectively has made some debatable business decisions. And, by all means, fans publically voicing their misgivings about what's going on en masse should be done to get the word out there about the temperature of the TMNT fandom at large.

My thing is just... let's step back a little bit, look at the big picture, and try and understand where Laird is sitting. He owns TMNT... this is his show. To ask or even suggest, "Yo, Laird... you ought to delegate your creative duties to someone else!" I can imagine is going to result in a kind of, "F***, if I do that, what the f*** did I buy all the creative rights off of Eastman for, then?" He has made it known he's going to tell the stories/kind of stories he wants to tell... and that's the end of it. We can sit here and lament, "Well, Laird, if you did this instead, then..." (hell, there's a few things I'd like to say, too, but that doesn't take away from the fact)... but at the end of the day he's going to do things the way he wants to do things, and will see them through to that end... and that's it.

Will the ship crash and burn, sink to the bottom of the ocean as a result? Maybe. Maybe even likely, at the current rate they're going. But I admire and respect his devotion to doing no more or less than doing exactly the kind of stories he wants to do, and taking no crap from anyone.

[Krang]

Curious, did you're fingers explode after typing all that?

And who says I hate you? I don't hate people I've never met(ecept Paris Hilton, Jack Thompson, and Carlos Mencia). You just annoy me sometimes, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
Quit it with the rudeness, and please keep your personal arguments off the forums where they belong.

And while we're on the topic, let's all please be respectful of other people's opinions. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with posting constructive criticism and suggestions here about Mirage as long as you do so with respect, and everyone has been doing a good job of that so far.

[odupianist]

when it falls into the toilet in 3 years

You're giving it longer than I am lol


Peter Laird also really should start a blog up I'm sure he would gets tuns of encouragement to get things started back up if he's feeling so down or with a clouded mind that he can't continue.

That may be true, but then he'll take any constructive criticism and get all pissy. At least from what I know and have heard about PL.

My take on things is pretty simple -- it's his boat. If he wants to sink it to the bottom of the sea, that's his call.

Captain goes down with his ship. It's a shame though.

He has made it known he's going to tell the stories/kind of stories he wants to tell... and that's the end of it.

See, I think that's cool but then why is he recycling things from the 2k3 series into the comics? (disclaimer: not said with any mallice, I'm seriously curious)


Will the ship crash and burn, sink to the bottom of the ocean as a result? Maybe. Maybe even likely, at the current rate they're going. But I admire and respect his devotion to doing no more or less than doing exactly the kind of stories he wants to do, and taking no crap from anyone.

I respect PL for doing that, but at the same time, he's got to make a living somehow. I just think an average guy would have somewhat of an open mind to do things and tweak his stuff just a bit to appease to people. Best of both worlds I think.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Quit it with the rudeness, and please keep your personal arguments off the forums where they belong.

And while we're on the topic, let's all please be respectful of other people's opinions. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with posting constructive criticism and suggestions here about Mirage as long as you do so with respect, and everyone has been doing a good job of that so far.

Good going Laird, **** tease Archie fans for the past 4 years about a story arc that was promised to us and they can it.

You know I used to think maybe him disliking the Archie series was just a rumor but this pretty much confirms it. Guess it hits him hard that someone made a better comic series out of his characters then he is capable of.

Also I love how Playmates gets to have a say in the new direction of the show. How stupid do you have to be to allow a TOY company say in what the actual series is like?


YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHH, lotta respect there chachi.

[Roseangelo]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHH, lotta respect there chachi.

Dude, lay off. I already told him his methods of expression weren't the best and *gasp* he appologized.

I read the new posts in this thread last night and I couldn't even think of anything to say in response. I'm beyond words at this point.

I just can't understand how anyone can believe that it is acceptable to let a single person "crash the ship." I don't care who that person is, it's ridiculous.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

If you're beyond words, why are you posting?

It's a friggin mystery people! Call Scooby and the gang!

[Scandia]

Well, there is one small piece of good news there.

The Turtles are returning to regular time. No more Fast Forward. Though I am ordering it soon, the truth is that I very much prefer the regular 2k3 toon. It is just so faithful to the comics.

[Spitfire]

It is just so faithful to the comics.

I hate to disagree but it's far from faithful to the comics. While some of the stories have elements from the comics in them their no where near the same as the comics. In some cases their so different their just the same story told a new way.

The Shredder Strikes Back and The King, maybe Nobody's Fool, are the only episodes that come to mind that come close to being 100% accurate to the way the comic versions were.

[odupianist]

They are faithful to a degree I think. Not 100% I agree, but still some what faithful I think.

[VaughnMichael]

They are faithful to a degree I think. Not 100% I agree, but still some what faithful I think.
I'd say allot of them Are Faithfull just very very very very watered down.
Well besides the whole Rat King Story, And city at war.

[Janus Prospero]

The Shredder Strikes Back and The King, maybe Nobody's Fool, are the only episodes that come to mind that come close to being 100% accurate to the way the comic versions were.

I would say that there are a lot more than that.

And yes, there are some major differences, and yeah it is a bit "watered down." But for a cartoon show, I think they did pretty damn good. I mean come on, Leo actually cut's the Shredder's head off! Cut's his head off! ...in a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

Not to turn this into a 2k3 debate thread, but what I really loved about the show was how it took the comics (many of which are very disjoint) and linked them together so that they were one cohesive unit. Like when they did I, Monster and it turns out that... ...the Rat King was Bishop's superhuman prototype built using Splinter's DNA. That was awesome! (Even if the comic explanation is much different.)

[VaughnMichael]

I would say that there are a lot more than that.
And yes, there are some major differences, and yeah it is a bit "watered down." But for a cartoon show, I think they did pretty damn good. I mean come on, Leo actually cut's the Shredder's head off! Cut's his head off! ...in a Saturday Morning Cartoon.
I hate to get nitpicky here but he didn't exactly cut off Shredder head like he did in the comics he cut off a robots head something they did to foot soldiers in many episodes of the old toon.
I will admit I was shocked untill I saw the body smarking and get up and walk away with the head. It was cool and all but it's not the same destroying a robot body compaired to chopping of a human or clone version of shredders head.

[Andrew NDB]

Some of the eps are somewhat similar or true to their counterpart comic's spirit, though for the most part it's really it's own thing -- toned way down and with a clear merchandising/toy agenda -- with a plenty of homages to the Mirage comics. But that's all the similarities are, really... homages.

Except for the King episode. While it added a bit of this or that, the heart and story were nearly identical to the Don special. Got a good kick out of watching it.

It's cool, though. The 4Kids show is pretty much as ballsy and sound a TMNT cartoon as you could ever hope to see on a mass-market network for children. Boiling the first couple of seasons of the 4Kids stuff down to the raw, story-critical episodes and plot points, we'd get a movie just as good or better (creatively) than the original 1990 movie, I think.

[Janus Prospero]

I hate to get nitpicky here but he didn't exactly cut off Shredder head like he did in the comics he cut off a robots head something they did to foot soldiers in many episodes of the old toon.
I will admit I was shocked untill I saw the body smarking and get up and walk away with the head. It was cool and all but it's not the same destroying a robot body compaired to chopping of a human or clone version of shredders head.

Well...duh. But it wasn't revealed to the audience that the Shredder was just a robot until after the decapitation. So at the time, he could have easily been thought of as human. People may have had their suspicions but it wasn't 100% confirmed. So I think it's a somewhat different situation than what the turtles were doing to the Foot in the 1987 cartoon, even if it was inherently the same.

And what about in Exodus when they all get the crap kicked out of them? Like when Karai accidentally impaled Leo and it makes that sickening noise...that was hardcore for a cartoon man. And what about when Agent Bishop gets impaled on a meat hook?! You could argue that he is cyborg-ish, but still mostly human. Anyway, my point isn't that it's on the same level as the comics, just that for a Saturday Morning cartoon, it really pushed the limits of violence.

Some of the eps are somewhat similar or true to their counterpart comic's spirit, though for the most part it's really it's own thing -- toned way down and with a clear merchandising/toy agenda -- with a plenty of homages to the Mirage comics. But that's all the similarities are, really... homages.

I would say that the similarities are a little more than just "homages." I mean they both have plot points that are exactly the same. But they did also have their major differences and I do agree that it was its own thing for the most part (not that it was a bad thing.) And the merchandising thing didn't really bother me. At least not too much. Things like the Battleshell I felt were appropriate. The only time it made me :roll: was when they had the monster catching gear and the jetpacks. I mean, it's like they weren't even trying to be subtle.

[VaughnMichael]

Well...duh. But it wasn't revealed to the audience that the Shredder was just a robot until after the decapitation. So at the time, he could have easily been thought of as human. People may have had their suspicions but it wasn't 100% confirmed. So I think it's a somewhat different situation than what the turtles were doing to the Foot in the 1987 cartoon, even if it was inherently the same.
They would have never let the real thing air on tv that's how you could know it wasn't a real person. And like said I was even shocked at first but knew they wouldn't get away with such a thing on TV let alone a kids show.
Also in the Old school show the turtles themselves didn't even know the foot where robots until it was said pretty much in the same way they found out shredder as in the 2k3 show. "Clang" "Did you just say clang?" "Dude these guys are robots!" or something like that you get my point.
And what about in Exodus when they all get the crap kicked out of them? Like when Karai accidentally impaled Leo and it makes that sickening noise...that was hard-core for a cartoon man. And what about when Agent Bishop gets impaled on a meat hook?! You could argue that he is cyborg-ish, but still mostly human. Anyway, my point isn't that it's on the same level as the comics, just that for a Saturday Morning cartoon, it really pushed the limits of violence.
Getting the hell beating out of you is hardly bloody cuts, heads being cut off, etc.
Sure that's wonderful and all especially since the good guys hardly ever have anything bad happen to them in TV shows.
And yeah that entire Karai sword thing annoys me to no end she obviously got Leo in a soft spot yet only a chuck of his shell is missing...nice.
Also in almost everyone favorite episode Same As It Never Was you can tell they wanted to do some crazy things but the episode seems to be censored to hell and back..making all the things happening look lame and cheesy.
Btw in that episode where Bishop happens to land on a hook I'm pretty sure the fluid on it was either green or black.
The Bishop one is a great example but Bishop isn't from the comics now is he? That's what we're talking about here The comics being adapted to TV form don't lose sight of that.
You know it's funny you've got me thinking even more now how come they can pull off gruesome things in episodes that aren't based on comic episodes yet in new story's like ones related to Bishop, Baxter, or the rat king they can. Something to really think about.
In fact those episodes are my favorite episodes.
I just find it funny when watching something like the Power Puff Girls it's allowed to have more gore, blood, and violance in it than something like the TMNT.
Oh Well I'm not Complain about the show infact I love 2k3 but I enjoy the comics allot more.

[Janus Prospero]

They would have never let the real thing air on tv that's how you could know it wasn't a real person. And like said I was even shocked at first but knew they wouldn't get away with such a thing on TV let alone a kids show.
Also in the Old school show the turtles themselves didn't even know the foot where robots until it was said pretty much in the same way they found out shredder as in the 2k3 show. "Clang" "Did you just say clang?" "Dude these guys are robots!" or something like that you get my point.
That’s true. I mean, anyone with enough experience watching television would know that they wouldn’t allow death in that manner to air in a kids show. (Although on the other hand they did have Zog die a fiery death...hmmm...well, that was off screen so that’s a little different I suppose.)
However (#1) It was still awesome :tcool:, (#2) even if the intelligent audience members knew something was up, the turtles still thought Shredder was human, and Leo cut his head off anyway thinking that it would kill him. And that fact alone makes me feel all warm inside. :tgrin: To me what really counts is the perception of what is going on in a movie/show at the time. Because the first time watching it, I wasn’t expecting him to actually do it. And when he does do it, there is that small frame of time right before you realize that it’s probably fake where you’re going “HOLY $#!&!!!” I’m not going to let it take away from the experience I had just because I was able to rationalize that it was a trick.

Getting the hell beating out of you is hardly bloody cuts, heads being cut off, etc.
I don’t know man, Mikey had both his legs broken. Like, when it happened, I actually cringed, but broken bones just give me the hee bee jeebies. :teek: I’d take a nasty cut over broken legs any day...unless of course it was fatal.

Sure that's wonderful and all especially since the good guys hardly ever have anything bad happen to them in TV shows.
And yeah that entire Karai sword thing annoys me to no end she obviously got Leo in a soft spot yet only a chuck of his shell is missing...nice.
Heh, and how did that even work? When she stabs him it doesn’t even look like it goes through his shell! Nor is there any evidence of it being shorn off as he falls.

Btw in that episode where Bishop happens to land on a hook I'm pretty sure the fluid on it was either green or black.
There’s actually nothing on the hook, but I think there may be black or purple stuff on his coat when he’s climbing up the ladder. But this is in the same vein as the Shredder thing. You know Bishop isn’t going to be mangled and crippled for life because this is a kid’s show. But the mere fact that it happened I was like, “WHOA!” Then shortly thereafter, “Damn, he’s probably just a cyborg or something.”

The Bishop one is a great example but Bishop isn't from the comics now is he? That's what we're talking about here The comics being adapted to TV form don't lose sight of that.
Are we? Crud, I think we’re actually arguing two different points here. :tanime: Sorry about that.

Well I totally admit that they had to hold back. I agreed with your “watered down” comment in my initial post. I certainly don’t think 2k3 is the comics in cartoon form. Otherwise it’d be on HBO or maybe late night Cartoon Network. But what I am saying is that for a Saturday morning cartoon (and I can not stress that part enough), I think they did a damn good job getting it as close to the comics both in violence and atmosphere as they possibly could have, considering the constraints they had. And this includes content taken directly from the comics as well as new content created solely for the toon. Could they have done better without crossing the line? I think so. For example, they could have removed some of the cheesy things set up for figure variations. But for a lot of things, I think they really pushed the envelope. You may have a differnet opinion, but I know I was certainly impressed. The only thing in the same league that comes close to the maturity level of TMNT 2k3 in my opinion is Gargoyles.

I just find it funny when watching something like the Power Puff Girls it's allowed to have more gore, blood, and violance in it than something like the TMNT.
Oh Well I'm not Complain about the show infact I love 2k3 but I enjoy the comics allot more.
Heh, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen any Power Puff girls. Was it really that graphic? My guess is because the animation was just so...caricatured and cartoony, that it wouldn’t have had the impact had it been done in TMNT since it was much more realistically drawn. Plus, TMNT is a much more serious show than Power Puff Girls. Heh, have you ever seen any Ren & Stimpy? Looking back today, what that show got away with blows my mind.

[Roseangelo]

Heh, and how did that even work? When she stabs him it doesn’t even look like it goes through his shell! Nor is there any evidence of it being shorn off as he falls.

lheGrmdcuII

Couldn't resist. :tanime:

[Janus Prospero]

lheGrmdcuII

Couldn't resist. :tanime:

LOL! I was worried this was going to be a video clearly showing that part of Leo's shell getting sliced off. But this is much better. He he...

If would have been funnier if Raph had stabbed Karai afterwards. Then they could have started the music again. :D

[Spitfire]

The liquid coming out of Bishop is blue I paused it once to see.

And yeah the show can be edgy but that's not my point at all. My point was the show is far from accurate to the comics. I love it still don't get me wrong just after recently reading the Volume 1,2, and most of 3 runs of the comic series I don't see the show being as accurate as I once thought.

While on the subject, one of the majorly watered down characters is Zog. In the comic they let him stay in that poisoned state and don't do anything to help him breath. He slowly goes insane and in the process butchers tons of Foot Soldiers. Then he gets wasted at the hands of the clones, who make sense in the comic by the way. Also in that same arc Leo and Raph have a pretty intense fight which isn't seen in the cartoon version. Raph almost dies, the Leo Shredder fight is awesome, it's just so much better then the cartoon episodes.

My main problem with Laird's comic to toon adapts is he drags them out to long. Turtles In Space is one of the most boring arcs I've ever watched and after reading the comic version, including the Fuigitoid one shot, I see it could have been way shorter and would have been way better if it was. That's what Laird did to Zog. Zog could have been in the Return To New York arc instead they had him in a new story they made.

On that same note City At War could have stood to be a little longer.

[Janus Prospero]

And yeah the show can be edgy but that's not my point at all. My point was the show is far from accurate to the comics. I love it still don't get me wrong just after recently reading the Volume 1,2, and most of 3 runs of the comic series I don't see the show being as accurate as I once thought.
Yeah, sorry. I got a little distracted explaining why I thought decapitation was cool. :tanime:

But yeah, they did change a lot. I wouldn't make the blanket statement that they are "faithful to the comics" but they are certainly heavily inspired by the comics in that they take a lot of the story arcs from them.

I originally took your comment as “OMG The cartoon is nothing like the comics and therefore it fails at being any good!” But looking back, that probably isn’t the case. I mean, if you’re disappointed that they didn’t follow the comics more closely, I can understand that. As you point out a lot of the stuff is blatantly out of order/reworked/toned down, but to me that never really took away from the cartoon, especially since what we got is better than anything I ever imagined that we'd be getting from a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

While on the subject, one of the majorly watered down characters is Zog. In the comic they let him stay in that poisoned state and don't do anything to help him breath. He slowly goes insane and in the process butchers tons of Foot Soldiers. Then he gets wasted at the hands of the clones, who make sense in the comic by the way. Also in that same arc Leo and Raph have a pretty intense fight which isn't seen in the cartoon version. Raph almost dies, the Leo Shredder fight is awesome, it's just so much better then the cartoon episodes.
Yeah, the clones made very little sense in the new toon, compared to the comics. I kinda rationalized that the Shredder’s body is biotechnology, and in an attempt to make a new one, the bio part got messed up, so they just turned them into cyborgs or something...I don’t know. I could probably come up with a better explanation in pursuit of “The Grand Game” but it’d be tough.
And I wouldn’t have minded seeing more Raph and Leo conflict myself.

My main problem with Laird's comic to toon adapts is he drags them out to long. Turtles In Space is one of the most boring arcs I've ever watched and after reading the comic version, including the Fuigitoid one shot, I see it could have been way shorter and would have been way better if it was. That's what Laird did to Zog. Zog could have been in the Return To New York arc instead they had him in a new story they made.
Well I’ve only watched through the full series once, save for the first half of season 1, which I’ve seen twice due to the recent DVD release. I don’t remember ever being bored, then again that could change if I watch it again. Personally one of my favorite parts of the new toon was the long continuing story arcs. However I did watch the episodes back to back. I can certainly imagine it being frustrating if one were watching them week to week and had to wait forever just to move the plot along.

On that same note City At War could have stood to be a little longer.
True that.

[odupianist]

Watered down is an excellent way of putting it. I think Exodus is one of the most violent episodes, but it'snot as violent as it could have been if it was on another station like Comedy Central for example (no I'm not saying CC would be the best place to air a more adult cartoon of TMNT, I just picked one). I also like how they made the Rat King Bishop's clone. I enjoy how they tie things together in this series (like Hun and Garbageman).

I think the reason they didnt do the Raph Leo conflict in RtNY was because they were stressing the unified family again. Leo just got his butt whooped and now they were pushing the family quality.

[Roseangelo]

IMO the Turtles in Space adaptation was fine; it was when they got back to Earth and fought the Triceratons for four or five more episodes, something that was 100% new and not from a comic book, that it got extremely tiring. That's actually the point in time where I realized just how tired I was of the extreme amount of sci-fi that was turning up in TMNT (both the TV series and the comics). For now, the fewer Triceratons I see, the better.

City at War was kinda a waste of the title.

However, to be a faithful adaptation does not mean it has to be an exact adaptation.

Oh, and if you watch Neil's Anime Next panel videos, it's actually said in one of those (the second one, maybe?) that someone got fired because of the Shredder decapitation in RTNY. And that SAINW did end up extremely watered down from the original concept.

I personally like that, for the most part, the series isn't just a straight adaptation of the comics. I mean, how boring would that be? Knowing exactly what's going to happen every week? And now at this point in time I'd rather have more brand new stories than more of the recycled old ones.

[darthsmozers]

What I don't understand is how his comments about The Forever War seemingly directly contradict what Dan Berger said just a couple of weeks ago about it looking like a 25th anniversary item. :-? :-?

Posted by Putrecent a couple weeks ago, from an email sent by Dan Berger:

"As of today it looks like it may be part of the 25th anniversary
celebration and won't be released until 2009.

Thanks for writing!

Cheers!
Dan Berger "

[The Shelf]

Well, "As of today" and "may" seem like pretty good indicators to me. His reasonably sure "2009" is only a logical conclusion to "25th anniversary" which he said "may" happen.

:ohwell: Sorry, I hope that didn't sound sarcastic. I didn't mean for it to. Murphy's in charge of all the 25th anniversary stuff, so I'd take his word over Dan's regarding that bit of info. Murphy had probably been going back and forth with the idea, and Dan caught him talking about it during one of those "forth" (positive) moments, but Murphy apparently ended with a "back" (negative) moment regarding Forever War.

EDIT: Speaking of which, who was actually in charge of finishing Forever War? Was it Murphy, or did someone else decide to quit working on it, meaning Murphy had nothing to do with the decision?

[gobo]

I personally like that, for the most part, the series isn't just a straight adaptation of the comics. I mean, how boring would that be?
I know I'd find it disappointing. There's a difference between being edgy and being unforgiving. I prefer the former.

[Janus Prospero]

IMO the Turtles in Space adaptation was fine; it was when they got back to Earth and fought the Triceratons for four or five more episodes, something that was 100% new and not from a comic book, that it got extremely tiring. That's actually the point in time where I realized just how tired I was of the extreme amount of sci-fi that was turning up in TMNT (both the TV series and the comics). For now, the fewer Triceratons I see, the better.
Heh, well I think you'd agree that Sci-Fi has always been a major staple in the Turtles Universe. It's something we won't ever get away from, but I do believe in doing things in moderation. I don't know if I like it being so wide spread as it is in Volume 4, with aliens and the turtles being able to walk in broad daylight and all. And I (as well as many others) do think that the story arcs involving urban ninja warfare are the more entertaining/engrossing ones.

But, the amount of Sci-Fi didn't really bother me in the cartoon, it felt appropriate to me for some reason. Sorry, I know that's kind of vague. I haven't really thought about it until now. And even if I felt it did go over board sci-fi wise, it would be really difficult for me not to like that story arc. The introduction of Agent Bishop and that big fight the guys have with him in the lab are some of my favorite moments in the new toon.

Oh, and if you watch Neil's Anime Next panel videos, it's actually said in one of those (the second one, maybe?) that someone got fired because of the Shredder decapitation in RTNY. And that SAINW did end up extremely watered down from the original concept.
Whoa really?!?!
I hadn't listened to it yet.
::goes and does so::
Wow...on one hand I'm really glad it made it in, but on the other hand I feel bad for the woman. Especially because it sounds like she was brow beat into going along with it. And does anyone know what "SB&P" is?

[Andrew NDB]

I know I'd find it disappointing. There's a difference between being edgy and being unforgiving. I prefer the former.

The Mirage TMNT are unforgiving?

[darthsmozers]

Well, "As of today" and "may" seem like pretty good indicators to me. His reasonably sure "2009" is only a logical conclusion to "25th anniversary" which he said "may" happen.

:ohwell: Sorry, I hope that didn't sound sarcastic. I didn't mean for it to. Murphy's in charge of all the 25th anniversary stuff, so I'd take his word over Dan's regarding that bit of info. Murphy had probably been going back and forth with the idea, and Dan caught him talking about it during one of those "forth" (positive) moments, but Murphy apparently ended with a "back" (negative) moment regarding Forever War.

EDIT: Speaking of which, who was actually in charge of finishing Forever War? Was it Murphy, or did someone else decide to quit working on it, meaning Murphy had nothing to do with the decision?


But I do know Chris Allan has expressed interest in completing it, and he + Dean Clarrain have put out a few issues of Tales. They both certainly can do the work, no problem. So, I don't see where the problem is.

[Roseangelo]

Heh, well I think you'd agree that Sci-Fi has always been a major staple in the Turtles Universe. It's something we won't ever get away from, but I do believe in doing things in moderation. I don't know if I like it being so wide spread as it is in Volume 4, with aliens and the turtles being able to walk in broad daylight and all. And I (as well as many others) do think that the story arcs involving urban ninja warfare are the more entertaining/engrossing ones.

Oh yeah, I know sci-fi elements have long been established in all of the TMNT universes. I have nothing against that. But you actually pinpoint what my real problem was, that being Vol. 4. By the time Turtles in Space aired on TV (and I think I'm getting my timing right on this) I had already started being put off by what was going on in the comic and when I had to suffer through all those extra Triceraton episodes all I ended up seeing was Peter force-feeding us Triceraton and alien invasion stories for the rest of eternity. The only stories Peter seems to be able to write involve dinosaurs, motorcycles, and "Star Trek," as I like to nail it down to. Because of this, I now tend to have a large dislike for stories that fall into these three categories (granted, the label "Star Trek" is a very loose one that's open to interpretation). It's simply bad association and the Triceratons fall into the dinosaur category. Meh.

I don't recall being annoyed with any of the other sci-fi elements in the new cartoon. Well, a little bit when it came to mutated Don, because I think that idea's really been overused, too (especially since we also had "Gamera Raph" in Vol. 4 at the same time).

What bothered me so much about April being a drawing, almost moreso than the fact that she was a freakin' drawing, was that it really seemed that Peter was just reusing the crystal from Donatello #1 for the sake of using it again and April fell victim to his need to reuse this element. Lame.

What it does come down to, as you mention, is moderation. I wouldn't hate Vol. 4 as much as I do if equal attention was given to the non-dinosaur, motorcycle, Star Trek stuff like, oh, I dunno... Splinter DYING.

And does anyone know what "SB&P" is?

What context is that from?

The Mirage TMNT are unforgiving?

I'm going to guess that gobo was referring to the manner in which something is adapted, not the actual content of what's being adapted.

[Janus Prospero]

What context is that from?
In reference to the beheading incident (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR4i5yn9HUY) Leo, er...Michael says, "Someone got fired over that at SB&P."
At least that's what it sounds like he's saying.

[gobo]

SB&P is Fox's Standards & Practices people.

And, I meant "unforgiving" in the context of tone, not personality traits. While I'm far from a casual viewer, I wasn't so excited with the Turtles in their (Mirage) book that much due to the fact that it was too extreme. It seemed to me the stories were relentlessly trying to be edgy, and I guess unforgiving wasn't such a good word to describe that with. But, I'd rather it be watered down. I find the 2K3 version of Mirage stories to be more enjoyable by 'giving us time to breathe'. However, I still think that City At War shouldn't have been condensed like it was. That's the one story where I think the comics did it better. I imagine I'm fairly alone in these opinions though.

[VaughnMichael]

SB&P is Fox's Standards & Practices people.

And, I meant "unforgiving" in the context of tone, not personality traits. While I'm far from a casual viewer, I wasn't so excited with the Turtles in their (Mirage) book that much due to the fact that it was too extreme. It seemed to me the stories were relentlessly trying to be edgy, and I guess unforgiving wasn't such a good word to describe that with. But, I'd rather it be watered down. I find the 2K3 version of Mirage stories to be more enjoyable by 'giving us time to breathe'. However, I still think that City At War shouldn't have been condensed like it was. That's the one story where I think the comics did a better. I imagine I'm fairly alone in these opinions though.
Well with me yep you're alone on most of your opinions besides the whole city at war thing while I like some of the things added like the mob etc. it's not anywhere as good as the comic.
And you know that makes me think we haven't even seen the mob in some time now what a waste of characters.

[Andrew NDB]

But, I'd rather it be watered down.

Forgive me, I stopped reading at this point.

[Andrew NDB]

Looks like the answer is no on the the sequel today.

http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/

[VaughnMichael]

Looks like the answer is no on the the sequel today.

http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/
umm he didn't say no he said we have to wait a bit longer.

[CyberCubed]

Y'know, the only reason they could possibly have to wait now is because they're waiting to see the DVD sales.

I assume if Imagi/Warner Bros. told Murphy a flat-out "NO" he would have posted it, but it seems like they're stalling for some reason, most likely the DVD sales.

[gobo]

I'm surprised they keep trying to jump the gun with their decision. But, I guess I'll be getting the kiddified-looking US DVD then. I'll just gift it when I get the superior Aussie Deluxe Limited Edition.

[Roseangelo]

And another one:

http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-another-interview.html

[The Shelf]

:lol: Haha

Q: What do you think of the Fast Forward show/concept?

A: Please don’t ask me this.

I'm not familiar with Murphy's tastes. Does that mean he likes it but doesn't want people emailing him asking how he could? Does it mean he doesn't like it but for obvious business reasons is unable to voice such an opinion? Or does it mean that he really doesn't have an opinion on it, and doesn't want people to bug him on the topic?

It doesn't matter to me what he thinks about it, but I just thought it was funny how exhausted that sounds: "Please don't ask me this."

[VaughnMichael]

:lol: Haha



I'm not familiar with Murphy's tastes. Does that mean he likes it but doesn't want people emailing him asking how he could? Does it mean he doesn't like it but for obvious business reasons is unable to voice such an opinion? Or does it mean that he really doesn't have an opinion on it, and doesn't want people to bug him on the topic?

It doesn't matter to me what he thinks about it, but I just thought it was funny how exhausted that sounds: "Please don't ask me this."
I don't think he could hate it all that much seeing as he wrote some of the best episodes for the show.

[Roseangelo]

I don't think he could hate it all that much seeing as he wrote some of the best episodes for the show.

I wouldn't confuse wanting to be paid money for something with actually liking something. ;)

The interview is unedited and eventually intended for a children's publication. I interpreted that answer as, "Don't even think about printing that question, because I can't give a nice answer."

[CyberCubed]

It takes about a year to complete a new episode of the show according to Muphy, lets hope production of the new season has started so we have these new episodes at around September of next year.

I also like the few tidbits that gets revealed, intentionally or not, when Murphy says that Playmates wasn't as directly involved with the shows production when it first started as it is now. Playmates was involved with the Fast Forward concept and is working with 4kids on whatever the next season is about, so I'm guessing we're going to have some new villains next season, and maybe more redesigns for the Turtles and Splinter when they return home.

On that note, does anyone else think the new show may only be 1 season if a movie sequal is not green-lit? Its obvious that the new season is trying to bank off the success of the first movie, but if we don't get a movie sequal, will the show continue as a stand-alone or will this be the last season? I really hope the cartoon continues into 2009 so it can be intertwined into the 25th anniversary at any rate. Hope the toyline still sells well.

[Vegita-San]

Q: What do you think of the Fast Forward show/concept?

A: Please don’t ask me this.
>>>>

I LOVED this answer. My interpretation of that is that he hates it, but can't say it :D :).

[Scandia]

Even without a sequel, we could still get more than one season of the 2k3 toon.

Now, the $64K question is, does Peter Laird dislike Fast Forward?

[The Shelf]

Now, the $64K question is, does Peter Laird dislike Fast Forward?

I doubt it. I think the concept behind FF was his idea to begin with. However, I doubt he wanted to kidify it as much as it has. He probably would have preferred to continue with the same tone that 2k3 had. But this is all speculation, of course.

[Mr. Stay Puft]

More Forever War news on Murphy's blog.

It looks like good news.

http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/2007/07/forever-war.html

[Roseangelo]

Oh my goodness! This is HUGE and awesome!!

Because not only is TFW definitely seeing print, but they're gonna collect all of the related issues into TPBs!!!

:thyper: :thyper: :thyper:

[OldSchooler]

Good going Laird, **** tease Archie fans for the past 4 years about a story arc that was promised to us and they can it.

You know I used to think maybe him disliking the Archie series was just a rumor but this pretty much confirms it. Guess it hits him hard that someone made a better comic series out of his characters then he is capable of.

Also I love how Playmates gets to have a say in the new direction of the show. How stupid do you have to be to allow a TOY company say in what the actual series is like?

Feel like taking any of this back? You don't know Laird, and you don't know what goes on over there, so next time just stop and think before spouting off like this, because it makes you look really stupid when SOLID news comes through.

[Roseangelo]

Feel like taking any of this back? You don't know Laird, and you don't know what goes on over there, so next time just stop and think before spouting off like this, because it makes you look really stupid when SOLID news comes through.

Read the thread - he already apologized! :x

[gobo]

Talk about obsessive. :roll:

[darthsmozers]

I am now in heaven :D

[Spitfire]

Feel like taking any of this back? You don't know Laird, and you don't know what goes on over there, so next time just stop and think before spouting off like this, because it makes you look really stupid when SOLID news comes through.

Feel like kissing my ass you petty child? I said I was sorry I exploded. It's people like you who make me wish I hadn't said sorry at all and continued being an asshole because obviously I can't even be sincere without getting treated like ****. At least SOMEONE read my posts, so thank you Rose for paying attention.

[Krang]

Let's please not get into this again...

[odupianist]

where the hell did old schooler come from? hahah

[TristanHuwJones]

This is very good news! Now, I just wish my Archie collection was in better shape - I think I may have some hunting down to do while I'm in the U.S.
Anyone know what the likelihood of finding issues at SDCC is going to be? Also, if anyone knows where the best places to pick up comics in San D, NYC and Northampton are PLEASE let me know! :D

[Roseangelo]

Anyone know what the likelihood of finding issues at SDCC is going to be? Also, if anyone knows where the best places to pick up comics in San D, NYC and Northampton are PLEASE let me know! :D

What? There are comic books at Comic-Con?!! Unfortunately I'm not kidding as much as I wish I was. There just aren't a lot of comic book dealers left at Comic-Con. But there are some, so it's worth taking a look.

I don't know about NY, but I know MA has That's Entertainment (http://www.thatse.com/index2.html), which I don't think is too far from Northampton.

[TristanHuwJones]

Mmm. It seems to be the way things are going with these big cons... I hear NYC's con is supposed to be good in regards to the comic presence. Hopefully if things work out i'll be able to go to that!

[VaughnMichael]

Yeah gotta agree with rose now if you're going to the Sandiago Comicon and you'd like to Find some Anime or Star Wars or companys trying to pimp there crap you're in luck!!! But if you'd like some comics especially any that aren't from the yellow page age of comics then your out of luck.
And sadly the eastcoast has much better comic shows.
I went to a very small comic book convention in Pittsburgh,p.a. and I found everything from archie tmnt to those ferlough(sp) comics with ninjara.

[Roseangelo]

Yeah, the small local shows are the way to go. Most of my best comic book finds were at the small shows in Minnesota. Not only did I find rare and obscure stuff, but I also got great deals on stuff (Vol. 1 #3, first print for $2.75 - woohoo!).

I still love me my Comic-Con, though. :D

[VaughnMichael]

I still love me my Comic-Con, though. :D
Wish I could say the same after paying so much to go last year and I went all week mind you...I could have sworn I walked into an anime sci-fi convention instead of a "comicon":lol:

[Roseangelo]

Wish I could say the same after paying so much to go last year and I went all week mind you...I could have sworn I walked into an anime sci-fi convention instead of a "comicon":lol:

Well, I can see being disappointed if you went expecting there to be lots of comics. I go because I do also like all of the other stuff and it's the one time of year I get to hang out with some of my best friends. :)

[TristanHuwJones]

I'm going mainly for the experience. There are so many names I want to meet and now that I've actually had some things published I figured "Heck, why not?"
Steve Purcell is also going to be there with a new edition of the Sam and Max collected book (sorry I didn't get back to you on that Rose - there's the reason why! :) ), and Sam and Max is probably my favourite comic book next to TMNT!
It'll also be my first time O/S (besides New Zealand, but when you're Australian that doesn't really count)!

The one thing I am after while over there, is The Man Who Laughs. That's my grail while I'm in the US.

[MrPliggins]

And sadly the eastcoast has much better comic shows.
I went to a very small comic book convention in Pittsburgh,p.a. and I found everything from archie tmnt to those ferlough(sp) comics with ninjara.

Oh is that the one at the Monroeville Expo Mart? I thought it was this coming weekend..damn!

[VaughnMichael]

Oh is that the one at the Monroeville Expo Mart? I thought it was this coming weekend..damn!
Yeah that'd be the one I wasn't aware that it was coming back again.

[MrPliggins]

Yeah that'd be the one I wasn't aware that it was coming back again.

I just checked my email..it is july 28-29...though it's not the "big" con...it's called the "steel city con".

[VaughnMichael]

I just checked my email..it is july 28-29...though it's not the "big" con...it's called the "steel city con".
I wonder...how much is it to get in?

[Andrew NDB]

Anyone know what the likelihood of finding issues at SDCC is going to be?

Slim to none. At most cons, dealers only seem to be taking stuff with them they are reasonable sure is going to sell, or mostly silver age stuff and under... might find some old Mirage Vol. 1ers, but not much else.

[MrPliggins]

I wonder...how much is it to get in?

To get into the con is $7 / day.

[VaughnMichael]

To get into the con is $7 / day.
Wow thats awsome pretty good price! last one I went to there cost like like 20.00 to get in which I thought was a ripp off yet i still found more than i did @ sandiago lol

[MrPliggins]

Wow thats awsome pretty good price! last one I went to there cost like like 20.00 to get in which I thought was a ripp off yet i still found more than i did @ sandiago lol

Yeah, I went to that con too..got some good stuff..I think this one is much smaller.