New series proposals YOU'D like to see.

[Drtooth]

How about it. We won't get heard, but it's fun to fantasize about this sort of thing, isn't it?

I propose a series comprised out of miniseries. 6 episode story archs that take place in different settings that all interjoin together. Similar to the story arch where the turtles get sepperated into different universes, but they'll all be together.

For example, one story has them stuck in ancient Japan, similar to the third movie. Another, they could be in Usagi's world.

[Scandia]

I'd like to see adaptations of the stories in Tales Volume 2. Most of them can happen with the Turtles at their current ages. And the ones that don't can be flashbacks or future speculations.

I'd like to see a new season with a storyline in the fashion of Ninja Tribunal.

[CyberCubed]

Well I'd think we'd all like more of the comics adapted into episodes, especially some arcs from Tales V. 2.

Aside from comic book adaptions, I want to see the Turtles explore places outside New York. Leo going to South America in the movie and the Archie comics Turtles traveling all over the place are just examples.

I'd love to see the Turtles spend about a 3 ep arc in Japan. Maybe visit Hamato Yoshi's grave or something, that would be cool.

[gobo]

"TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES: A DIME A DOZEN" <== very tentative working title

The concept: Each week, the Turtles are put in a new situation with a new direction, new characters, new art-style, etc. To tie it together into a continuous story, it can be decided that something goes awry on the trip home that causes them to take a ride through time and space, living through different interpretations of themselves (someone, call Michael Zulli!), and trying to remember who they are and why everything seems so wrong to them. This will serve to give samples of several different directions to explore while also giving 4Kids their preferred option of an episodic series.

I would expose my further developments and ideas for the show, but... Put me on the payroll, and we'll talk. ^_^ :D

EDIT: Concept inspired by Garfield's Nine Lives TV Special...

[The Terror of Death]

The turtles face the greatest mercenary in the universe as their main antagonist in 26 episodes. It starts with the the group of mercenaries Shredder talked about in Exodus contacting Slashuur and telling him that Ch'rell has not come to meet them yet. (It takes them a long time to get to Earth so that the time between Exodus and season 7 makes more sense) Slasuur is revealed to be Ch'rells half brother and we learn more about Ch'rells backstory. They go to Earth to see what happened and they learn of Ch'rells fate from Karai. They decide to take revenge upon the turtles by taking over Earth and killing those nearest to them. Then they plan on taking over the utrom home world. The turtles defeat the group of mercenaries in the first few episodes but not without its casualties. Splinter dies at the hands of Slasshuur. Slashuur escapes with four of the original mercenaries and tells the turtles if they want revenge then fight him in the next Battle Nexus tournament that takes place in two months. During this time the turtles train hard, have a funeral for Splinter, and fight old foes like Rat King, Touch and Go, Savantii, and the Necros monster. And new ones like Juliet, Complete Carnage, The Leech guy from The River and etc. Casey and April decide to get engaged.

When the turtles enter the tournament they learn Slashuur has an enhanced exosuit and has fully healed since their fight. This time the tournament is a team effort. The turtles call upon Leatherhead as their fifth member. In the tournament other teams compete like Usagi, Gen, and their allies. Mozar, Traximus and some triceratons. Some members of The Justice Force (I know they are not martial artists but we can find out that some members like Raptar do know the arts). Karai and the elite guard. Joy and the others from the lost season along with the Ancient One as a fifth member. And some alien friends and foes. They face the Dark Turtles in the Semifinals. Slashuur manages to go to the future (with the help of Savantiis wife who Slashuur aids in getting to the turtles) in the two months and he meets the Dark Turtles there and the Inuwashi Gunjin. The two groups want to face the turtles one last time. (They decide not to have fifth members to the Damiyos disliking) The turtles beat the Dark Turtles. (who become good guys and plan on facing the evil threats in the future along with Cody) In a three part miniseries the Dark Turtles face Darius and Zuko and manage to get Torbin to work for Bishop to repent for past crimes.

In a two parter on Earth Casey deals with Hun one last time along with other crime lords like Tony from the comics. In a one shot episode the members of the Justice Force who are still on Earth encounter the mutant in Dragons Brew. At the end of the episode Nano finds a cure (like the one for Donatello) and the man returns to live with his wife and son. The night before the match Slashuur kills Leatherhead. The Damiyo bans Slashuur from the tournament but Slashuur uses his powers to take the turtles to a desolate world to fight him and his partners without interference. The turtles call upon Casey as an alternative. The turtles finally face Slashuur in the final match and they avenge Splinters death. He appears to be dead but in one last ditch effort he grabs the energy from his fallen allies and is fresh while the turtles are worn out. The turtles lose hope but they see a vision of Splinter and they manage to beat Slasuur for good. April and Casey get married in the last episode.

This would have ALOT of backstory on most of the side charcaters to make it more interestring.

Man, I hope the tmnt staff sees this thread and uses some of my ideas.

[triplexxx]

The turtles face the greatest mercenary in the universe as their main antagonist in 26 episodes. It starts with the the group of mercenaries Shredder talked about in Exodus contacting Slashuur and telling him that the Ch'rell has not come yet. Slasuur is revealed to be an old partner of Ch'rell. And we learn more of Ch'rells backstory. They go to Earth to see what happened and they learn of Ch'rells fate from Karai. They decide to take revenge upon the turtles by taking over Earth and killing those nearest to them. Then they plan on taking over the utrom home world. The turtles defeat the group of mercenaries in the first few episodes but not without its casualties. Splinter dies at the hands of Slasshuur. Slashuur escapes with four of the original mercenaries and tells the turtles if they want revenge then fight him in the next Battle Nexus tournament that takes place in two months.

During this time the turtles train hard and fight old foes like Rat King, Touch and Go, Savantii, and the Necros monster. And new ones like Juliet, Complete Carnage, The Leech guy from The River and etc. Casey and April get engaged. When the turtles enter the tournament they learn Slashuur has an enhanced exosuit. This time the tournament is a team effort. The turtles call upon Leatherhead as their fifth member. In the tournament other teams compete like Usagi and his allies. Mozar and some triceratons. Some members of The Justice Force. Karai and the elite guard and some aliens. They face the Dark Turtles in the Semifinals.

Slashuur manages to go to the future (with the help of Savantiis wife who Slashuur aids in getting to the turtles) in the two months and he meets the Dark Turtles there and the Inuwashi Gunjin. The two groups want to face the turtles one last time. (They decide not to have fifth members to the Damiyos disliking) The turtles beat the Dark Turtles. (who become good guys and plan on facing the evil threats in the future along with Cody) In a three part miniseries the Dark Turtles face Darius and manage to get Torbin to work for Bishop to repent for past crimes. In a two parter on Earth Casey deals with Hun one last time along with other crime lords like Tony from the comics. The night before the match Slashuur kills Leatherhead. The Damiyo bans Slashuur from the tournament but Slashuur uses his powers to take the turtles to a desolate world to fight him and his partners without interference. The turtles call upon Casey as an alternative. The turtles finally face Slashuur in the final match and they avenge Splinters death. April and Casey get married in the last episode.

This would have ALOT of backstory on most of the side charcaters to make it more interestring.

Man, I hope the tmnt staff sees this thread.
Well, that's a pretty well-thought out idea; you should propose this idea to them somehow, see what they think. Couple of nitpicks: about the old foes, well you can't count Savanti 'cause he's long gone, though including his wife was a good idea, and I'm not quite sure they'd be willing to do that to Splinter, I find it kinda unlikely, but with this whole idea you got, it would make for excellent development.

[The Terror of Death]

Well, that's a pretty well-thought out idea; you should propose this idea to them somehow, see what they think. Couple of nitpicks: about the old foes, well you can't count Savanti 'cause he's long gone, though including his wife was a good idea, and I'm not quite sure they'd be willing to do that to Splinter, I find it kinda unlikely, but with this whole idea you got, it would make for excellent development.

Thanks for reading all of that.:D And I could be wrong but wasnt Savantii in some two part comic where he is in China or Japan? I wanted that to be adapted. I really did not want LH or Splinter to die but I felt the turtles should have more drive to fight Slashuur.

So does anyone know would I tell them about this idea? Do I send an email to the official site or 4kids? And I changed a few things in my post.

[Scandia]

That sounds just plain AWESOME.

But I do NOT want Splinter to die off. In fact, I am not too happy that he died in Volume 4 of Mirage. I know that turtles live MUCH longer than rats- but they could have kept him around a bit longer. He's one of my fave TMNT characters.

[ToTheNines]

I liked that Idea really well aside from a few small things and one big thing (Gotta keep sensei alive!)

[Time Mistress]

Nicely thought out tripplexxx. I like a lot of it. But I don't think Splinter or Leatherhead should die.:( Just be wounded enough so that they are out of the action. But definately some exciting stuff that you've thought up there.

[triplexxx]

Don't worry, they won't die. If they haven't had the balls to do that by now, I doubt they ever will.

[mattmanw54301]

TMNT: Alternity

When Cody tries to send the TMNT back to their own time, something goes wrong, sending the Turtles and Splinter through alternate dimensions, meeting different versions of themselves. This would serve to showcase different art styles, as well as giving the TMNT a chance to see different incarnations of themselves. One 3 ep arc could be them meeting the C.O.W.boys of Moo Mesa, then the next arc they end up in the Archie Comic universe joining the Mutanimals. They could visit the Mirage Universe, the movie Universe, even the Old Toon and Next Mutation Universes.

[ZariusTwo]

TMNT: Professionals

The TMNT find themselves in safe hands when people who bend to the proper network mandates, what works better for the franchise as a commodity take the reins. Six succesful seasons and counting.

[jenna]

In my Make a Wish thread, this was my wish:

for a new, adult CGI TV series with the same design, VAs as the new film, with each narratives being taken Mirage.... This TV series will be on at 9pm in the evening (after the watershed) and will be on for an hour.

And I stand by this. I am less fond of the sci-fi story arcs and love the gritty city stuff, with character studies and development.

I just really believe that it would have more commercial success if aimed at adults. But I am a selfish person and don't want to share with the kiddies :P

It wouldn't have to be directly from Mirage naraitves, the stories could go elsewhere, I just would prefer it to be loyal to Mirage in tone.

[odupianist]

I like the mercenary idea. It could spawn off in a lot of ways. They might as well kill Leatherhead, they're not using him at all :(. But even if Splinter and LH die, they can come back like the acrolytes in the lost season hahah. And Savanti does return for a two parter towards the end of Vol 1. It's the story involving Chote. It's titled "Masks" or something.

[Drtooth]

"TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES: A DIME A DOZEN" <== very tentative working title

The concept: Each week, the Turtles are put in a new situation with a new direction, new characters, new art-style, etc. To tie it together into a continuous story, it can be decided that something goes awry on the trip home that causes them to take a ride through time and space, living through different interpretations of themselves (someone, call Michael Zulli!), and trying to remember who they are and why everything seems so wrong to them. This will serve to give samples of several different directions to explore while also giving 4Kids their preferred option of an episodic series....

Heh! I like the idea of them being reimagined in animation form as freely as they did with the old comics. I would KILL to see an episode based of Hedden/MacWeenie type storylines. Maybe have different professional animators and stuff reimagine them to their styles as well. Not gonna happen, but it's nice to imagine. (Mo Willems style Turtles.... one can dream).

When Cody tries to send the TMNT back to their own time, something goes wrong, sending the Turtles and Splinter through alternate dimensions, meeting different versions of themselves. This would serve to showcase different art styles, as well as giving the TMNT a chance to see different incarnations of themselves. One 3 ep arc could be them meeting the C.O.W.boys of Moo Mesa, then the next arc they end up in the Archie Comic universe joining the Mutanimals. They could visit the Mirage Universe, the movie Universe, even the Old Toon and Next Mutation Universes.

I've been pushing the imaginary plot device of them getting caught in the old toon alternate reality for a while now. I REALLY want to see that happen, just as one or two episodes. Just to mock their former selves, ALA Back to Alvin's Future.

Nicely thought out tripplexxx. I like a lot of it. But I don't think Splinter or Leatherhead should die. Just be wounded enough so that they are out of the action. But definately some exciting stuff that you've thought up there.

I would love to see Splinter die off ONLY to see how the characters would react. Death is a very dramatic angle if you can pull it off right. While I don't condone the idea (though it would be just PERFECT for a movie), the characters struggling with the loss has limitless possibilities. Leo and Raph take it the hardest (Depression and anger, respectively), Don soesn't care on the outside, but is terribly hurt on the inside, and Mikey acts completely childish as comfort. Too bad TV execs don't think kids can handle death.

[Time Mistress]

If done well, Splinter's death would make an excellent storyline, don't get me wrong (if I ever though the cartoon could get away with it, it could provide a great story). But it would probably have to be done in a movie not the cartoon I agree and it would have to be done better than volume 4 handled it (except for the actual funeral, that was nice).

[Buslady]

more Mirage adapted story lines.
the guys continue to learn and grow and experience new things
all the stories have some connection to eahc other, like the first 4 seasons seemed to all fit together

or maybe keeping a working formula, air the damn Tribunal eppies and continue on like FF never happened!!! They better NOT dump the current voice gang cos they totally ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drtooth]

If done well, Splinter's death would make an excellent storyline, don't get me wrong (if I ever though the cartoon could get away with it, it could provide a great story). But it would probably have to be done in a movie not the cartoon I agree and it would have to be done better than volume 4 handled it (except for the actual funeral, that was nice).


Personally, I don't know what would be more dramatic. if Splinter died of old age (leading the turtles to think about their mortality) or Splinter getting struck down in battle (thus enraging the group for blood lust revenge).

[The Big Bad]

The turtles use Cody's time window (functional since Timing is Everything) to return back to the 21st century. However, thanks to one mistake or other, instead of returning to the precise moment they left, they return to New York two years later. In the interim, Casey and April have gotten married (or not--I kind of like the idea of them co-habiting) and given birth to a daughter--Shadow. Karai, Bishop, Baxter and Hun have all gotten on with their lives, with various degrees of success.

Some stuff that I'd like to see occur during the course of the series.

The series would continue like Fast Forward and Season 4 did, with stand alone-yet-interconected episodes. Like with Fast Forward and Vol. 4, the stakes would be somewhat lower--it would be folly to try to top Seasons 3 or 5--with the crises being of a more personal type.
Eventually, we'll see the status quo changing to reflect the future presented in Fast Forward. Casey, April, and Don will eventually found O'Neil Tech, and Earth will eventually become more acclimated to the existence of aliens.
The art style would remain as that of Fast Forward, for consistency's sake if nothing else.
The 22th century would eventually be revisited, with an older Cody Jones and Starlee Hambrath taking the turtles to another trip to the future, in order to deal with some problem or the other.
No more comic book adaptations. Most tales worth adapting have already been incorporated in one way or another, and I'd like to see further differentiation between both incarnations.
More of the other four acolytes, this time separately, to see their lives outside the Lap of the Gods.
More stories without the turtles in them. The universe is developed to the point where the turtles don't need to be involved as much and can in fact be a detriment. Let's see solo stories starring Karai Traximus, or Nobody.
A return to the Triceraton Homeworld, to see how the Republic is shaping up under Traximus' leadership.

[Scandia]

Big Bad- I like MOST of your ideas. But if April and Casey are going to have Shadow, I hope they have her inside the bonds of wedlock. It would be just too racy for a kiddie show to have a kid out of wedlock- cohabiting in the movie I can look the other way, but not if they have a kid. I dislike the FF art style and prefer the rounder one of seasons 4 and 5. Many Tales of Volume 2 are worth adapting indeed.

[Spitfire]

Big Bad- I like MOST of your ideas. But if April and Casey are going to have Shadow, I hope they have her inside the bonds of wedlock. It would be just too racy for a kiddie show to have a kid out of wedlock- cohabiting in the movie I can look the other way, but not if they have a kid. I dislike the FF art style and prefer the rounder one of seasons 4 and 5. Many Tales of Volume 2 are worth adapting indeed.

You do know Shadow is not April's daughter right?

And you need to chill on your endless onslaught on relationships before marriage. Not living with someone before you get married is the stupidest move you could make. You can love someone all you want that doesn't mean you can live with them.

That's the downfall of many many relationships, and it's better to figure that out before you spend money on a marriage.

[CyberCubed]

I like The Big Bad's ideas too. Have the Turtles return to the present but a few years later so Casey and April's lives would have moved on without the Turtles for a while. Its honestly the only way I can picture Shadow in this series, since 4kids probably wouldn't allow her origin to remain unaltered.

[Scandia]

Statistics say otherwise.

I know that Shadow is not April's nor Casey's biological daughter in the comic. Personally, my preferred storyline to bring Shadow in would be Gabrielle moving into April's or Casey's apartment complex and befriending them- then dying after giving birth and Shadow getting adopted by April and Casey.

[odupianist]

Where do you get your statistics scandia? Cause I'm going to agree with spitfire. Living with someone before you get married is the best thing you can do, but that's not the point of this thread. I don't think kids are really going to care whether there's a wedding or not. It's not going to be that noticeable if the TMNT come back and there's a ring on the finger or not. Your'e not going to notice it or care from a 7 year old's point of view. I like big bad's ideas, the only thing that came to mind was... "It's your kids Marty. Something's gotta be done about your kids!"

[jerome]

Big Bad- I like MOST of your ideas. But if April and Casey are going to have Shadow, I hope they have her inside the bonds of wedlock. It would be just too racy for a kiddie show to have a kid out of wedlock- cohabiting in the movie I can look the other way, but not if they have a kid. I dislike the FF art style and prefer the rounder one of seasons 4 and 5. Many Tales of Volume 2 are worth adapting indeed.

You know i feel its people like you who keep the turtles stuck in "kiddie land".

Um i'm gonna have to disagree with you as well on this point. Living together before marriage is the smartest thing a couple can do. Not to mention its the year 2007. You think a couple isn't going to be having sex unless they move in together? Come on...This reminds me of the film THIS FILM NOT YET RATED. Showing how ***backwards the USA is in its concern over sexuality instead of violence.

If I was a parent (which i will be someday:) ) I'd be much more concerned with my child wanting to play with sharp ninja weapons and the effect of them seeing someone killed on tv then them seeing A COMMITTED LOVING FAITHFUL COUPLE living together on tv.

"hey daddy how come April and Casey live together?" answer "because they are in love." problem solved.

Now as for my show proposal...I guess the show i'd really like to see would really not sit well with you. In my perfect world we'd get a TMNT show aimed at an adult swim-ish audience. You know a show that would allow the turtles to mature and deal with more mature situations. A show where april and casey live together and have to deal with the struggles of being a couple and the struggles of half the couple being a vigallante hero. A show where the turtles might actually stab, slice, kill someone and have to deal with the emotional baggage that comes along with being a crime fighter who occasionally has to kill someone. Splinter dealing with Fatherhood and trying to keep his teenage sons in line while living in NYC. The turtles Involvement with the cops (ie issue 36 of Tales vol.2) and the cops wanting to catch them or help them etc. I want a bad guy who can actually be bad and can pose a serious threat to the turtles and everyone else. I just want a show that can grow with its viewers instead of having to start over with a new batch of 7 year olds every 3 years.

hmmm that wasn't very put together or clear. I don't have any exact stroylines or anything. I just think a more serious and mature show would add a whole heap of stability and credibility to the franchise. Just my opinion.:)

[jenna]

Big Bad- I like MOST of your ideas. But if April and Casey are going to have Shadow, I hope they have her inside the bonds of wedlock. It would be just too racy for a kiddie show to have a kid out of wedlock- cohabiting in the movie I can look the other way, but not if they have a kid. I dislike the FF art style and prefer the rounder one of seasons 4 and 5. Many Tales of Volume 2 are worth adapting indeed.

Oh no, not again............................................. ... :sick: :dead:

Anyway, my proposal is to have a programme that is more directed to adults than children. I know it'll never happen but it's what I want personally,

[Spawn Guy]

We need Gargoyles level writing. The new toon already has the connceted plots but we need that kind of subtlety, tragedy, scale, mythology, etc. It's already made up it's own big wide world, but a little more wouldn't hurt.

[jerome]

We need Gargoyles level writing. The new toon already has the connceted plots but we need that kind of subtlety, tragedy, scale, mythology, etc. It's already made up it's own big wide world, but a little more wouldn't hurt.


I fully back this idea. Gargoyles was one of the best written animated series ever.

[Spitfire]

I'd like to see some faithful comic adapts. Faithful down to dialog and everything. I read "Sons Of The Silent Age" last night...yeah. I'll give them credit this time though they made it all fit into the series well this time and switching Raph's role with Leo's made sense.

But it still isn't faithful, I'd like to see some stuff like "The River" but it's way to violent. And I'd love to see a faithful adapt of "Return To New York"

Another neat idea would be to do Tales style episodes here and there and do them in different styles. That's one thing I like about Tales is the art isn't the same in each issue and that makes it neat.

[odupianist]

Speaking of Gargoyles, any idea if that show is going to be released on DVD?

[Spawn Guy]

Oh that's easy. Just fire the other animation team when your done!

[jerome]

Speaking of Gargoyles, any idea if that show is going to be released on DVD?

Well i have the two disc anniversary edition of season 1 and highly recomend buying it. I'm currently waiting for Season 2 vol. 1 to come in the mail. And sadly the morons at disney have shelved the release of season 2 vol. 2 or any other gargoyles releases due to what they say were poor sales. IDIOTS:x

[Spawn Guy]

There's always YouTube and Dailymotion. But yeah, do they not know about he massive cult following this has?

[jerome]

There's always YouTube and Dailymotion. But yeah, do they not know about he massive cult following this has?

I know. you'd think with the large cult following and the gathering of the gargoyles and such that the dvd sales would atleast allow for some cheap dvds to be made. I mean something like the turtles 2k3 dvds would be good enough for me. At least give me the rest of season 2. geesh...

[Spitfire]

Oh that's easy. Just fire the other animation team when your done!

Exactly 4Kids is great at doing that!

[The Big Bad]

My my, I really didn't believe one little comment would spark such discussion. To be honest, I really didn't put much thought into the idea of wether Casey and April should get married or not--I just don't see them as the "getting married" type. Still, I'm not at all married to the idea.

We need Gargoyles level writing. The new toon already has the connceted plots but we need that kind of subtlety, tragedy, scale, mythology, etc. It's already made up it's own big wide world, but a little more wouldn't hurt.You lost me. What did Gargoyles do that TMNT hasn't? How is it more subtle? How is its scale and mythology more expansive than TMNT's? I'd appreciate some elaboration.

And sadly the morons at disney have shelved the release of season 2 vol. 2 or any other gargoyles releases due to what they say were poor sales. IDIOTSSo you're saying Disney shouldn't try to make a profit? Considering that the first season apparently sold satisfactorily, there's an argument made that something was wrong with Season 2 vol. 1 to make it not sell as much. Since the possibility exists that the issue is one of demand, then it makes sense to put off production until they can either create demand or solve the problem.

[Spawn Guy]

You lost me. What did Gargoyles do that TMNT hasn't? How is it more subtle? How is its scale and mythology more expansive than TMNT's? I'd appreciate some elaboration.


More of an age thing I guess. Oh you can certainly feel nice and mature with the old toon...but more so with Gargoyles. The humor and dialouge mainly. But again, Gargoyles feels a lot bigger. Everything conects, and there's no sudden super powerful change of tone into a big magic epic anime saga and no happy go lucky trip to the future dictated by a toy company.

Seriously, watch an episode of Gargoyles. I just dosen't feel like it has the restrictions the new ton has, and in some cases sets for itself.

[The Big Bad]

Oh, I've watched the whole series (barring The Goliath Chronicles, which, while not "dictated by a toy company", is worse than Fast Forward ever managed to be, from what I've heard)--that's why the comment struck me as curious. It's undeniable that the series did a lot right (Xanatos, Macbeth, Fox, Renard, Owen, The Illuminati); I also find it highly flawed (Avalon's conclusion, the recurring nature of The Pack long after their "sell by" date, the World Tour) and not as ground-breaking as everybody seems to think it is--even the new comic book is only moderately engaging, with the latest issue being the only one I'd consider "good". In the end, I just consider TMNT to have a better record than Gargoyles, both in actual quality and in "subtlety, [...],scale, mythology, etc" (I'm not sure about "tragedy", which is why I ommited it). In the end, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

To be continued...

[odupianist]

When I would watch Gargoyles as a kid, I remember it being a little more adult than I was or what I was used to, but I still enjoyed it bc it was gargoyles! lol

[ToTheNines]

The art style would remain as that of Fast Forward, for consistency's sake if nothing else.

Are you insane? I HATE how the turtles are drawn, and the over-use of bright colors just make FF downright ugly at times. The first four season just looked so damn good to me, and even better when on a big high resoloution TV. The art style makes up like half of any shows quality if you ask me.

[ZariusTwo]

Gargoyles not selling with the second volume is easy to guess given how serialized beyond recognition the second season truley was. Wiesman tried to be too big, and it backfired greatly because the Avalon arc dragged on too long just so he could set uip his five spin-offs, and the show ended right after he wrapped it up (and the comic need'nt have continued it either, it ended perfectly, though I like his inconsistent run so far).

[sdp]

Gargoyles was a good show but hardly as great as fans make it out to be.

I understand fans really like the concept but there are many shows that are better, Gargoyles can't compare. Not saying it isn't a good show.

[Drtooth]

Are you insane? I HATE how the turtles are drawn, and the over-use of bright colors just make FF downright ugly at times. The first four season just looked so damn good to me, and even better when on a big high resoloution TV. The art style makes up like half of any shows quality if you ask me.


I agree. I mean, at first when they were a little anglized it was fine, but then the turtles started looking like upside down Stop signs or something like that, and they just looked attrocious and off. I really think we should go to the slightly angular, but not exaggerated style the show started out with.

Wiesman tried to be too big, and it backfired greatly because the Avalon arc dragged on too long just so he could set uip his five spin-offs, and the show ended right after he wrapped it up (and the comic need'nt have continued it either, it ended perfectly, though I like his inconsistent run so far).

Something to that effedct is why I don't like FF much and why I actually don't think they should have ended it right away. They tried to do too much with too many things that will never get sewn up, and yet they put in 90% filler garbage in the mistaken impression it would go on longer. I would have liked it a lot better if they just cut to the quick more often and didn't spend so much time developing the threat that they have no time to do anything with them.

[ZariusTwo]

I understand fans really like the concept but there are many shows that are better, Gargoyles can't compare. Not saying it isn't a good show.

Actually, I prefer Gargoyles to the first three seasons of TMNT. Yost's run on seasons four and five were infinitley more preferible to the repeitiveness we got with the wars with Ch'rell and Baxter being blown up every few weeks

Not saying it's bad or void of substanial quality or meri, but GOD did it grate with fillers and unneccersarily long bollocks like "Big Brawl" and the AU arc.

[The Terror of Death]

Not saying it's bad or void of substanial quality or meri, but GOD did it grate with fillers and unneccersarily long bollocks like "Big Brawl" and the AU arc.

I actually liked those long arcs. Its good when the turtles can go to different places and interact with a large amount of chacaters.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I love long storyarcs!

Dude, haven't you read City at War? Thirteen issues, plus the two-part Shades of Gray prequel!

[jerome]

Actually, I prefer Gargoyles to the first three seasons of TMNT. Yost's run on seasons four and five were infinitley more preferible to the repeitiveness we got with the wars with Ch'rell and Baxter being blown up every few weeks

Not saying it's bad or void of substanial quality or meri, but GOD did it grate with fillers and unneccersarily long bollocks like "Big Brawl" and the AU arc.

The big long story arcs are actually my favorite things about both series. I love the long turtles in space and big brawl story arcs. And my fav Gargoyles episodes are the 5 part mini-series that launched the show.

I hope if anything the new TMNT cartoon continues to have long story arcs with sweeping plots and lots of charecters and worlds.

[Scandia]

I like long story arcs depending on the plot. The Turtles in Space one was dull. Big Brawl was AWESOME. City at War was great- although from what I hear, not quite as good as the original manga one. So it all depends on the actual plot to me.

[jerome]

I like long story arcs depending on the plot. The Turtles in Space one was dull. Big Brawl was AWESOME. City at War was great- although from what I hear, not quite as good as the original manga one. So it all depends on the actual plot to me.

you mean the mirage comic? i've never heard of a manga...

[Scandia]

Yup, the Mirage comic. I read so much manga and watch so much anime that I got confused. I certainly mean the original Eastman and Laird Mirage comic.

[ZariusTwo]

I actually liked those long arcs. Its good when the turtles can go to different places and interact with a large amount of chacaters.

Yeah, but when they do NOTHING but clearly advertise somebody's product the way those arcs did with Usagi and Planet Racers, that's when it sucks. Give me arcs that connect with the TMNT universe and the characters, which is what TLS and the first season did.

Objecitvly, Big Brawl's a badly plotted dull-as-ditchwank mess of a storyline, it's fanfiction to an embarrasing degree

[The Big Bad]

ZariusTwo: Gargoyles not selling with the second volume is easy to guess given how serialized beyond recognition the second season truly was.

Actually, the reason for the decrease in sales between Gargoyles volumes, as Weisman describes it, was mostly the price. The second volume was about ten dollars more expensive than the first (which was inevitable, given that it had twenty-six episodes versus first set's thirteen), which cut down on impulse buys and made the set less appealing to casual buyers.

ToTheNines, regarding my opinion that any future turtles series should retain the Fast Forward style: Are you insane? No. Like I said, I'd find it jarring to go from the original style to Fast Forward style and back to the original style again, and I assume that a significant part of the audience will feel that way as well (not that that won't happen when the Lost Season airs, but still). Plus, if Fast Forward's 21st century scenes (Future Shell Shock, Clash of the Turtle Titans, The Journal, Timing is Everything, Head of State) are any indication, I think a series in that style, set in the present, would look quite good. Heck, I find the latter half of Fast Forward looks just as good as the old series, in its way.

[CyberCubed]

I caught the entire run of Gargoyles on Toon Disney a few years back and I absolutely LOVED the show until the dreaded Avalon Adventures kicked in. My god, why did he think by removing half the cast (i.e., the other Gargoyles), and having Goliath travel from place to place in mostly self-contained stories was a good idea?

When they finally got back to New York the show returned to its amazing self, but that Avalon arc dragged on horribly and most of those episodes bored me. It was done pretty terribly, and ruined a good segment of an otherwise enjoyable show.

TMNT did have some arcs that dragged, but thankfully none of them went on longer than 5 episodes, unlike Gargoyles.

[ToTheNines]

No. Like I said, I'd find it jarring to go from the original style to Fast Forward style and back to the original style again, and I assume that a significant part of the audience will feel that way as well (not that that won't happen when the Lost Season airs, but still). Plus, if Fast Forward's 21st century scenes (Future Shell Shock, Clash of the Turtle Titans, The Journal, Timing is Everything, Head of State) are any indication, I think a series in that style, set in the present, would look quite good. Heck, I find the latter half of Fast Forward looks just as good as the old series, in its way.

Thats like your favorite resteraunt using ****** meat on the burgers that you used to love, and then you not wanting it to go back to how it used to be because it's "jarring".

[Spawn Guy]

That's a moot point, consideirng they can't go back.

[ToTheNines]

That's a moot point, consideirng they can't go back.

Who says they can't go back?

[Scandia]

I do NOT want them to keep the FF style. That's for sure. I hope they return to the Seasons 4 and 5 style. They look more 3D. It is a much more professional and polished style.

[CyberCubed]

That's a moot point, consideirng they can't go back.

That's not entirely true, or they could simply use a different art style for next season.

[Drtooth]

I do NOT want them to keep the FF style. That's for sure. I hope they return to the Seasons 4 and 5 style. They look more 3D. It is a much more professional and polished style.


Nor do I want to see them simplified so much they look like refugees from Dexter's Labratory. I mean, the 1950's ish UPA/Jay Ward/Total Television style is okay, and I think Clone Wars and Samurai jack proved you could use a similar style that actually works in an action setting, but I want them to look like they did before. Even if the animators have to get paid more....

...paid more.... hint hint hint.

[ToTheNines]

The animators have nothing to do with how the characters look, there's a whole different department that draws up the frames before Dong Woo animates them.

[Revan]

...paid more.... hint hint hint.

There is no money. Hence the switch. It's just not there like it was in season 1 when there was interest. We almost never got to see the lost season. Thank heavens Laird pushed so hard for us.

[Drtooth]

The animators have nothing to do with how the characters look, there's a whole different department that draws up the frames before Dong Woo animates them.

But by simplifying the character designs like they did, the animators can draw them easier and faster, thus my comment about saving money.